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Gettleman will have final say on the 53

jlukes : 1/9/2020 4:18 pm
Per Joe Judge on wfan
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sure, he's going to go public on his first day on the job  
ColHowPepper : 1/9/2020 4:41 pm : link
and say I have veto power over my boss. Yup, makes sense. He's in the HC seat as 2nd youngest HC in NFL because he plays his cards well. Not necessary to set up pitched battle on day 1.
Did anyone ask  
pjcas18 : 1/9/2020 4:43 pm : link
Gettleman if he supported keeping Alex Tanney as the 3rd QB/QB coach?
also  
Platos : 1/9/2020 4:46 pm : link
who are these super teams that have one guy doing everything AS WELL AS COACHING the team?

don't give me BB, he may be the GM in a sense but he's one of the very few who have anywhere near the amount of power he has.

heres a list from 2013

Bill Belichick of the New England Patriots
Mike Shanahan of the Washington Redskins OUT OF THE LEAGUE and its the redskins so what does that really mean?
Sean Payton of the New Orleans Saints
Pete Carroll of the Seattle Seahawks
Chip Kelly of the Philadelphia Eagles OUT OF THE LEAGUE
Jeff Fisher of the St. Louis Rams OUT OF THE LEAGUE

you guys want to give any tom dick and "joe" full control of the roster? Coaches coach and GMs find players for their coaches.
Collaboration  
HMunster : 1/9/2020 4:49 pm : link
I don't think it was an accident that JJ mentioned how as ST coach he evaluated every single player in the draft to see what kind of athlete and player they were.

I expect he will bring that level of expertise to collaborating with DG and will have significant input.
until that troglodyte is fired  
mdc1 : 1/9/2020 4:50 pm : link
we won't go beyond a .500 team.
note on Sean Payton  
Platos : 1/9/2020 4:50 pm : link
i forget what year it was but during the draft he was being interviewed on NFL network or ESPN and the saints pick came up. he turned his head and goes "Nice we just got *enter WR name*!"

does that sound like he's picking all his groceries or him and his GM loomis collaborate on who they think would be right for this team?
Bingo, plato.  
yatqb : 1/9/2020 4:56 pm : link
And I wonder how often DG and Shurmur or McAdoo disagreed.

Frankly, I think that Judge and DG are simpatico on a tough, physical team and will make decisions accordingly.
That would suck.  
Dave in Hoboken : 1/9/2020 4:59 pm : link
Lets hope that isn't true and DG fades into the background where he belongs.
They will work  
Lines of Scrimmage : 1/9/2020 5:02 pm : link
very closely and he will have input. I like the GM having control as he has can do all the checks and balances so to speak. The good thing is both have a shared vision.

An example might be they have a productive player that has performed coming up on free agency (and not quite worth the 2nd contract). GM should be looking ahead and looking for that type in the draft.



RE: until that troglodyte is fired  
BMac : 1/9/2020 5:05 pm : link
In comment 14770509 mdc1 said:
Quote:
we won't go beyond a .500 team.


Because they appear to have the same football philosophies, I guess you have to call Judge a trog, too.
RE: Hopefully that won't last,  
jlukes : 1/9/2020 5:06 pm : link
In comment 14770466 Go Terps said:
Quote:
or is simply the public facing company line.

Gettleman is support staff.


I was thinking this too.

No way he would strip Gettleman down in public on his first day on the job
final say over the final 53?  
santacruzom : 1/9/2020 5:06 pm : link
I didn't even realize that's been part of a GM's duties. Sure, I understand orchestrating trades, signing free agents, extending players, filling in holes... but choosing who remains and who is cut? I just kind of assumed the coaches did so after evaluating the players' performance and the team's needs in training camp.

So Alex Tanney remaining as a third QB was a Gettleman choice?
I listened to his interview  
joeinpa : 1/9/2020 5:10 pm : link
On Joe and Evan, there was nothing negative in his comments about Gettleman.
NOT A SHOCK  
BleedBlue : 1/9/2020 5:14 pm : link
that BBI goes back into negative fucking nancyville


GM and coach work together on the 53...pretty simple. its his first day, you think he is gonna say nah DG will have to listen to me? He knows they are both going to work together, he was just giving the PC answer.

Today was a great day! We introduced a coach who seems to have a great plan. Mara seems on board with his plan, i doubt a GM gets in the way of that. they are both old school mentality and i expect them to work well with each other to form the roster judge feels is best to implement his style of play. Can BBI be happy for ONCE?
They are right for each other  
Reale01 : 1/9/2020 5:19 pm : link
Gettleman needs a coach who can develop players and Judge needs some experience around him. Gettleman will retire soon so I don't think he is up for a turf war. When you get to be his age it is more about legacy and less about the spotlight.
RE: final say over the final 53?  
section125 : 1/9/2020 5:28 pm : link
In comment 14770538 santacruzom said:
Quote:
I didn't even realize that's been part of a GM's duties. Sure, I understand orchestrating trades, signing free agents, extending players, filling in holes... but choosing who remains and who is cut? I just kind of assumed the coaches did so after evaluating the players' performance and the team's needs in training camp.

So Alex Tanney remaining as a third QB was a Gettleman choice?


Please don't be thick as a brick. I guarantee you Tanney on that roster was solely on Shurmur.

However, the GM always, always, and forever has final say on the team - he's the one that signs the contracts. Does not mean Gettleman is going to run roughshod over Judge's wishes. They may disagree on a final piece or two and it may come down to contract numbers on players of equal value.
Let's remember that Parcells and Young pissed in each others cereal on occasion.
Let's go to last draft. Shurmur wanted Jones. Gettleman wanted Josh Allen - he said it. He said it killed him not to take Allen, but a QB trumps an ER/OLB and he feared Jones would not be there at 17. So he took Jones.

I do think Gettleman will get better input from Judge vis a vie players than Shurmur. I am absolutely certain that based on Judge's meticulous attention to detail if he wants X player he will get X player.
RE: I will go on record right now  
ZoneXDOA : 1/9/2020 5:31 pm : link
In comment 14770445 arniefez said:
Quote:
if Judge fails it will not be because of Dave Gettleman. Gettleman is not a stupid person. He sees how this is playing out. The days of drafting RBs #2 are over.
mainly because we already drafted a RB at #2!
Why do you think it comes down to "final say"?  
David B. : 1/9/2020 5:32 pm : link
George Young had "final say," and Dan Reeves basically said, "fine, you gave him to me, but I won't play him." This shouldn't be that dysfunctional.

The final 53 -- which is never "final," will be determined ON THE FIELD by the Head Coach.

If JJ is telling DG, "I can't use this guy. He doesn't fit what we're doing." I expect DG (who is already on notice about his job), to listen, and be "the support staff for the coaches," he keeps claiming to be, and make any necessary changes.
Said this on another thread:  
81_Great_Dane : 1/9/2020 5:38 pm : link
JJ is putting in a Pats' style, chameleon team. Different style of play every week, give the opponent a lot to prepare for. That takes players who are versatile, flexible, selfless, smart, and are quick learners. Input from the HC is an absolute must.

Nothing that such players are hard to find and the Pats don't have a fantastic track record in the draft. They do, however, have a great history of turning other teams' cast-offs into very useful players.
Noting not nothing  
81_Great_Dane : 1/9/2020 5:39 pm : link
.
Here we go  
Thankyoueli : 1/9/2020 5:47 pm : link
Riot time
RE: RE: RE: As Gettleman apparently said...  
therealmf : 1/9/2020 5:48 pm : link
In comment 14770488 bw in dc said:
Quote:
In comment 14770478 LS said:


Quote:


In comment 14770453 bw in dc said:


Quote:


to McDaniels in their 2018 interview about personnel...

"That's why they pay me the big bucks..."

So no change in process at Jints Central. Back to "normal".


Link?



It was posted last week as something another poster heard in a podcast. May have been Lombardi...??

Regardless, and be honest, do you have any problem at all hearing Gettleman saying that? I mean, that would be CLASSIC Gettleman...

On 1/3 you said
Quote:
Someone (Sean?)...
bw in dc : 1/3/2020 10:15 pm : link : reply
posted earlier this week that McDaniels may have been turned off two years ago by Gettleman. McDaniels asked how disputes are resolved over differences in personnel and apparently Gettleman said, "...that's why they pay me the big bucks..."

So Gettleman...


And latrer when pressed for a link
Quote:

RE: RE: Someone (Sean?)...
bw in dc : 1/3/2020 10:31 pm : link : reply
In comment 14755655 Saquads26 said:
Quote:
In comment 14755634 bw in dc said:


Quote:


posted earlier this week that McDaniels may have been turned off two years ago by Gettleman. McDaniels asked how disputes are resolved over differences in personnel and apparently Gettleman said, "...that's why they pay me the big bucks..."

So Gettleman...



Link to a direct quote from McDaniels?


There wasn't. Sounded like a rumor.


On 1/6 it was a mantra
Quote:
RE: ďThe BuzzĒ
bw in dc : 1/6/2020 5:37 pm : link : reply
In comment 14761488 DanielJonesNYG8 said:
Quote:
The buzz from the beginning has been this is the Giants guy. So letís assume they reach the point where they begin discussing details. Potential sticking points:

- Rhule has a huge buyout he needs to pay, plus no state income tax, much lower cost of living in Texas than NJ. If he factors in all heís probably gonna ask for $7-10 million a year. Somewhere in that window.

- Personnel. Is he going to want final say in the ingredients? Without getting that written into his deal heís powerless to know he will be heard.

- Staff. His deal last year fell apart over staff. Are the Giants going to let him bring whoever regardless of experience level or lack thereof.


I'm not in the Rhule camp, but if he doesn't get to hire whomever he wants as his assistants then he shouldn't be here. Do a 180 and fly back to Waco - or Charlotte - because we are a sink hole as an organization.

I seriously doubt he gets final say. In other words, if there is a serious split over two guys, with Rhule wanting one and Gettleman the other, I fear the Gettleman mantra - "that's why they pay me the big bucks" - will prevail. Which makes me ill...


Is there a link? If not you should stop referring to it as truth.
Dave's got a gun-to-his-head ...  
Manny in CA : 1/9/2020 5:49 pm : link

And he knows it. The East will be harder to win - Dallas may have finally fixed their legendary ineptness, Philly has an outstanding coach, even the Skins have Rivera/Del Rio.

If he causes Judge to trip over his fat butt, his name will live in infamy.
Gettleman's comment today  
Metnut : 1/9/2020 5:54 pm : link
about the top 4 rushing teams making the playoffs and the top 4 passing teams not making the playoffs, and using that as a rational for why we need to run the ball and stop the run, showed a complete fundamental misunderstanding of the underlying statistics.

Hey Dave, teams that kneel the ball at the end of games win 99.9999% of the games, maybe we should focus on leading the league in kneeling the ball!

Hopefully Judge has major major major impact on personnel. Gettleman embarrasses himself half the time he talks. He should stick to scouting.
If he's bad, he'll just get fired  
Soundtrack : 1/9/2020 5:54 pm : link
I tend not to get worked up about this stuff, our front office has been a turnstile lately. If he does bad he'll just be fired and they'll promote the next guy with Giants ties as the next GM.
DG says in this interview today that it's going to be a  
Dave in Hoboken : 1/9/2020 5:55 pm : link
colloboration. Starts at the 37 second mark:
Link - ( New Window )
...  
christian : 1/9/2020 6:03 pm : link
So this is the exact same setup Gettleman had with Shurmur then?
Does anybody really think  
TJ : 1/9/2020 6:14 pm : link
this first time head coach should have final say on the 53?
I think he has enough on his plate right now. Let's worry about making him GM til after he's shown he can handle what he's already been given.

And let's wait to decide the current gm is no good til after the new coach has a chance. I think most agree our coaching wa worse than our personnel last year. So I have no problem addressing just the coaching for right now.
Based on our last 2 years, Gettleman should be begging  
Jimmy Googs : 1/9/2020 6:23 pm : link
Judge to provide input as to anything and everything...
RE: Gettleman's comment today  
Gatorade Dunk : 1/9/2020 6:26 pm : link
In comment 14770598 Metnut said:
Quote:
about the top 4 rushing teams making the playoffs and the top 4 passing teams not making the playoffs, and using that as a rational for why we need to run the ball and stop the run, showed a complete fundamental misunderstanding of the underlying statistics.

Hey Dave, teams that kneel the ball at the end of games win 99.9999% of the games, maybe we should focus on leading the league in kneeling the ball!

Hopefully Judge has major major major impact on personnel. Gettleman embarrasses himself half the time he talks. He should stick to scouting.

It's alarming that he gets more data from the NBC Wild Card broadcast than he does from the four computer guys.
All of This is Run of The Mill Stuff  
Giants38 : 1/9/2020 6:31 pm : link
I didn't expect Judge to say anything else, nor did I expect Gettleman to say it's anything other than a collaboration. I imagine Judge appealed to the Giants, in part, because he didn't want roster control. You can bet your ass that Gettleman wanted someone like that.

Of course, that doesn't mean things won't change. The Jets fired McCagnan after hiring Gase. I'm not suggesting the Giants are firing Gettleman, but it is not unheard of. You would hope that Gettleman would strongly incorporate what Judge has to say into their signings and draft picks, but it's no guarantee.

In any event, Gettleman will not be here much longer if the results don't change, and fast.
Why would this be a problem...  
Brown_Hornet : 1/9/2020 6:34 pm : link
...?

Serious question.
Personally, I don't have a problem with Dave's complete Mantra ...  
Manny in CA : 1/9/2020 6:44 pm : link

Run the ball. stop the run, harass the QB.

What I have a problem with his inept implementation of it ; he hires two WCO coaches who were not interested in any of the above and now he finds himself running for his life!

2nd Generation - Coughlin/Gilbride had a good run till they ran out of talent and Tom eventually lost his edge (happens to the best). Judge comes out of the same original Parcells - Belichick Tree. He's 3rd generation; I have a lot of hope for him.

And DG said it would be  
ZogZerg : 1/9/2020 7:21 pm : link
Collaborative.
You guys love to bitch about nothing.
Whatever happens,  
an_idol_mind : 1/9/2020 7:25 pm : link
folks will embrace their theories as truth.

If Judge is successful, it will be that Gettleman got out of the way.

If he fails Gettleman will be meddling too much.

Same thing has happened for years. Accorsi was either great or riding Coughlin's coattails. Reese was either good at first or coasting on talent given to him by Accorsi. Everybody needs their villain.
What do you think DG is going to do?  
Scuzzlebutt : 1/9/2020 7:37 pm : link
Cut Daniel Jones? I am sure he will take the coaches input, but even if he does have the final say we are talking about maybe the last one or two roster spots.

And don't give me this Giants way bullshit. If there is a disagreement you want the guy with the longer term vision (GM) making that call.
RE: What do you think DG is going to do?  
Jimmy Googs : 1/9/2020 7:42 pm : link
In comment 14770724 Scuzzlebutt said:
Quote:
Cut Daniel Jones? I am sure he will take the coaches input, but even if he does have the final say we are talking about maybe the last one or two roster spots.

And don't give me this Giants way bullshit. If there is a disagreement you want the guy with the longer term vision (GM) making that call.


Yes, because that longer term vision guy brought us the fabulous Leonard Williams deal...
'Gettleman will have final say on the 53'  
Torrag : 1/9/2020 7:44 pm : link
If you watched everything everyone said today from owners to GM to the new HC the roster will be a partnership between the GM, HC, and scouts. That's it.

Overreact to the 'DG has final say' soundbyte all you want. That's what it would be, an overreaction.
Gettleman's question and answer  
LS : 1/9/2020 7:48 pm : link
I know John (Mara) told us that he felt as though Monday afternoon, the search was over. What were your feelings when you exited the interview with Joe (Judge)?

"You know, I felt the exact same way. The interesting thing, when you go through an interview process, youíre looking for the broad view, youíre looking for intelligence and we talked about that. The thing that was really amazing to me was, and he said it, it really was just a conversation. Thatís really what it was. It was easy for him. The biggest thing when youíre hiring a head coach is you have to picture him in front of the room. He has to command that kind of respect. Yeah, for me, it was the same."

Letís get this big picture question out of the way. Obviously, we understand Giants, personnel, collaborative. If you disagree, who has the final say?

"At the end of the day, itís about building consensus and itís about getting to the right place. Iíve been doing this long enough with Ron (Rivera) and then Pat (Shurmur), whatever. Weíre going to get to the right place. Itís notÖ Itís about the right answer."

Itís not slamming your fist down?

"No, Iíve never done that in my life. Except when, no Iím only kidding. I canít say it. I canít give you a throwaway line. Bottom line is, itís collaborative."

Iíve heard some people say so Iíll ask you, thereís this perception from some that itís going to be Dave Gettleman picking the players and itís Joe Judgeís job to coach them. Do you feel that way?

"No. Itís going to be collaborative. I donít understand where that notion comes from. That notion has got to be coming from people that have never worked with me.

That is the Giants way. In the past, that was George Youngís statement, right? The GM picks the players.

"There was a way, way back in the day. It was scouts scout, players play, coachesí coach, etc. That world has changed."
It's hopefully like  
Scooter185 : 1/9/2020 8:14 pm : link
Those businesses for sale that have "current owner will stay on to train new owner" in the listing, and DG will ride off into the sunset after 2020
The most ironic thing.  
FatMan in Charlotte : 1/9/2020 9:11 pm : link
about this topic is that the Rhule and Judge press conferences both talk extensively about everyone being on the same page, being collaborative and all working towards a common goal.

The commentary from many here yesterday is that Rhule was given carte blanche to build a program (even though the Panthers have a GM in place). And in this thread the exact opposite sentiment is expressed.

I'll let you guys ponder why, but I'm guessing it is because some of you have dug in so deep that you are afraid your shoes will get stuck in the shit you shovel.
RE: I'm sure Judge will have a lot of input regardless  
KeoweeFan : 1/9/2020 9:15 pm : link
In comment 14770427 bigblue5611_2 said:
Quote:
.

His deference to DG was a very politically correct statement.
My superficial understanding of both individuals is that decisions will be mutual.

Did everyone miss his comments on how he evaluated NE's draft picks? The Special Teams coach evaluating draft picks? Since when ?; unless your ability to judge value to a team is held in very high regard.
I just listened to this interview  
Dave in Hoboken : 1/9/2020 9:16 pm : link
and multiple times Judge said that it will be collabrative effort to build the roster.
DG himself said the same thing in a video clip  
Dave in Hoboken : 1/9/2020 9:17 pm : link
I posted on another thread earlier today.
RE: DG says in this interview today that it's going to be a  
Saquads26 : 1/9/2020 9:17 pm : link
In comment 14770600 Dave in Hoboken said:
Quote:
colloboration. Starts at the 37 second mark: Link - ( New Window )


Some fans will choose to ignore this just so they can be miserable and complain.
.  
Saquads26 : 1/9/2020 9:20 pm : link
Q: Iíve heard some people say so Iíll ask you, thereís this perception from some that itís going to be Dave Gettleman picking the players and itís Joe Judgeís job to coach them. Do you feel that way?
A: No. Itís going to be collaborative. I donít understand where that notion comes from. That notion has got to be coming from people that have never worked with me.
Gettleman  
WillVAB : 1/9/2020 9:37 pm : link
Brought in all the shit Cardinals players he could that Bechter obviously wanted. He brought in players Shurmur wanted.

People here are so dug in on their shitty agendas they fail to see the obvious.

If Gettleman has the final say on the roster, great. Hopefully there wonít be as much of a desire to get a coach ďhis guys.Ē
What did anyone expect  
Leg of Theismann : 1/9/2020 10:09 pm : link
That Judge was just going to be given the keys to be the HC, GM, president of football everything , etc., a la Belichick all at once? That would be quite a a jump for a 38 year old who has not held any of those positions for a single day at any level. Thatís also an arrangement that is fairly rare and Iím not sure who else it really applies to aside from Belichick.

All that said, Iím confident based on everything the Giants have said (including DG and Mara) that Judge will have plenty of influence on the players acquired in the draft and FA.

It seems like some people thought even though the Giants retained Gettleman that they were only doing so out of charity and his only job was going to be organizing the annual Christmas party and company picnic.
RE: The most ironic thing.  
Giants38 : 1/9/2020 10:43 pm : link
In comment 14770859 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
about this topic is that the Rhule and Judge press conferences both talk extensively about everyone being on the same page, being collaborative and all working towards a common goal.

The commentary from many here yesterday is that Rhule was given carte blanche to build a program (even though the Panthers have a GM in place). And in this thread the exact opposite sentiment is expressed.

I'll let you guys ponder why, but I'm guessing it is because some of you have dug in so deep that you are afraid your shoes will get stuck in the shit you shovel.


You and I don't see eye to eye much, but I don't or didn't see anything in either of their answers that are alarming. What is Judge going to say? I'm the new boss? Similarly, what is Gettleman going to say? I have final say and too bad for everyone else?
RE: Does anybody really think  
santacruzom : 1/10/2020 1:17 am : link
In comment 14770621 TJ said:
Quote:
this first time head coach


Yeah.

Deciding which players make the final 53 does not mean he'd be running the draft or signing free agents. It's determined by evaluating which of the players who are already signed are compatible enough with his strategy, culture, and vision to stay signed, and which aren't.

Better the coaches make that call than the GM.
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