That had to be expected after what people like Jay Glazer said. Mara really chose Gettleman and there wasn't going to be much change in hierarchy.
As long as they let Judge choose his own coaching staff (and you don't end up with a whole bunch of former Carolina Panthers coaches), I wouldn't worry about it.
He's the GM. He's supposed to have the final say. Â
if Judge fails it will not be because of Dave Gettleman. Gettleman is not a stupid person. He sees how this is playing out. The days of drafting RBs #2 are over.
I understand the concern, but there may be some times when we want to keep someone who we think could be claimed vs someone who won't. It is Gettleman's job to know that. I expect it will be collaborative effort and do not have a problem with that.
if Judge fails it will not be because of Dave Gettleman. Gettleman is not a stupid person. He sees how this is playing out. The days of drafting RBs #2 are over.
That's because they already got a good one at #2, not because it was the wrong thing to do. I love Barkley!
selects players randomly without the coaching staffs input.
True. The person most responsible for Daniel Jones being a NY Giant is actually Pat Shurmur, even though DG made the decision ultimately. I would just prefer letting a coach succeed or fail entirely on their own merits and decisions and not after finding out a GM chose their OC and DC and signed some WR they didn't want.
and say I have veto power over my boss. Yup, makes sense. He's in the HC seat as 2nd youngest HC in NFL because he plays his cards well. Not necessary to set up pitched battle on day 1.
who are these super teams that have one guy doing everything AS WELL AS COACHING the team?
don't give me BB, he may be the GM in a sense but he's one of the very few who have anywhere near the amount of power he has.
heres a list from 2013
Bill Belichick of the New England Patriots
Mike Shanahan of the Washington Redskins OUT OF THE LEAGUE and its the redskins so what does that really mean?
Sean Payton of the New Orleans Saints
Pete Carroll of the Seattle Seahawks
Chip Kelly of the Philadelphia Eagles OUT OF THE LEAGUE
Jeff Fisher of the St. Louis Rams OUT OF THE LEAGUE
you guys want to give any tom dick and "joe" full control of the roster? Coaches coach and GMs find players for their coaches.
I don't think it was an accident that JJ mentioned how as ST coach he evaluated every single player in the draft to see what kind of athlete and player they were.
I expect he will bring that level of expertise to collaborating with DG and will have significant input.
i forget what year it was but during the draft he was being interviewed on NFL network or ESPN and the saints pick came up. he turned his head and goes "Nice we just got *enter WR name*!"
does that sound like he's picking all his groceries or him and his GM loomis collaborate on who they think would be right for this team?
very closely and he will have input. I like the GM having control as he has can do all the checks and balances so to speak. The good thing is both have a shared vision.
An example might be they have a productive player that has performed coming up on free agency (and not quite worth the 2nd contract). GM should be looking ahead and looking for that type in the draft.
I didn't even realize that's been part of a GM's duties. Sure, I understand orchestrating trades, signing free agents, extending players, filling in holes... but choosing who remains and who is cut? I just kind of assumed the coaches did so after evaluating the players' performance and the team's needs in training camp.
So Alex Tanney remaining as a third QB was a Gettleman choice?
that BBI goes back into negative fucking nancyville
GM and coach work together on the 53...pretty simple. its his first day, you think he is gonna say nah DG will have to listen to me? He knows they are both going to work together, he was just giving the PC answer.
Today was a great day! We introduced a coach who seems to have a great plan. Mara seems on board with his plan, i doubt a GM gets in the way of that. they are both old school mentality and i expect them to work well with each other to form the roster judge feels is best to implement his style of play. Can BBI be happy for ONCE?
Gettleman needs a coach who can develop players and Judge needs some experience around him. Gettleman will retire soon so I don't think he is up for a turf war. When you get to be his age it is more about legacy and less about the spotlight.
I didn't even realize that's been part of a GM's duties. Sure, I understand orchestrating trades, signing free agents, extending players, filling in holes... but choosing who remains and who is cut? I just kind of assumed the coaches did so after evaluating the players' performance and the team's needs in training camp.
So Alex Tanney remaining as a third QB was a Gettleman choice?
Please don't be thick as a brick. I guarantee you Tanney on that roster was solely on Shurmur.
However, the GM always, always, and forever has final say on the team - he's the one that signs the contracts. Does not mean Gettleman is going to run roughshod over Judge's wishes. They may disagree on a final piece or two and it may come down to contract numbers on players of equal value.
Let's remember that Parcells and Young pissed in each others cereal on occasion.
Let's go to last draft. Shurmur wanted Jones. Gettleman wanted Josh Allen - he said it. He said it killed him not to take Allen, but a QB trumps an ER/OLB and he feared Jones would not be there at 17. So he took Jones.
I do think Gettleman will get better input from Judge vis a vie players than Shurmur. I am absolutely certain that based on Judge's meticulous attention to detail if he wants X player he will get X player.
if Judge fails it will not be because of Dave Gettleman. Gettleman is not a stupid person. He sees how this is playing out. The days of drafting RBs #2 are over.
George Young had "final say," and Dan Reeves basically said, "fine, you gave him to me, but I won't play him." This shouldn't be that dysfunctional.
The final 53 -- which is never "final," will be determined ON THE FIELD by the Head Coach.
If JJ is telling DG, "I can't use this guy. He doesn't fit what we're doing." I expect DG (who is already on notice about his job), to listen, and be "the support staff for the coaches," he keeps claiming to be, and make any necessary changes.
JJ is putting in a Pats' style, chameleon team. Different style of play every week, give the opponent a lot to prepare for. That takes players who are versatile, flexible, selfless, smart, and are quick learners. Input from the HC is an absolute must.
Nothing that such players are hard to find and the Pats don't have a fantastic track record in the draft. They do, however, have a great history of turning other teams' cast-offs into very useful players.
to McDaniels in their 2018 interview about personnel...
"That's why they pay me the big bucks..."
So no change in process at Jints Central. Back to "normal".
Link?
It was posted last week as something another poster heard in a podcast. May have been Lombardi...??
Regardless, and be honest, do you have any problem at all hearing Gettleman saying that? I mean, that would be CLASSIC Gettleman...
On 1/3 you said
Quote:
Someone (Sean?)...
bw in dc : 1/3/2020 10:15 pm : link : reply
posted earlier this week that McDaniels may have been turned off two years ago by Gettleman. McDaniels asked how disputes are resolved over differences in personnel and apparently Gettleman said, "...that's why they pay me the big bucks..."
So Gettleman...
And latrer when pressed for a link
Quote:
RE: RE: Someone (Sean?)...
bw in dc : 1/3/2020 10:31 pm : link : reply
In comment 14755655 Saquads26 said:
Quote:
In comment 14755634 bw in dc said:
Quote:
posted earlier this week that McDaniels may have been turned off two years ago by Gettleman. McDaniels asked how disputes are resolved over differences in personnel and apparently Gettleman said, "...that's why they pay me the big bucks..."
So Gettleman...
Link to a direct quote from McDaniels?
There wasn't. Sounded like a rumor.
On 1/6 it was a mantra
Quote:
RE: “The Buzz”
bw in dc : 1/6/2020 5:37 pm : link : reply
In comment 14761488 DanielJonesNYG8 said:
Quote:
The buzz from the beginning has been this is the Giants guy. So let’s assume they reach the point where they begin discussing details. Potential sticking points:
- Rhule has a huge buyout he needs to pay, plus no state income tax, much lower cost of living in Texas than NJ. If he factors in all he’s probably gonna ask for $7-10 million a year. Somewhere in that window.
- Personnel. Is he going to want final say in the ingredients? Without getting that written into his deal he’s powerless to know he will be heard.
- Staff. His deal last year fell apart over staff. Are the Giants going to let him bring whoever regardless of experience level or lack thereof.
I'm not in the Rhule camp, but if he doesn't get to hire whomever he wants as his assistants then he shouldn't be here. Do a 180 and fly back to Waco - or Charlotte - because we are a sink hole as an organization.
I seriously doubt he gets final say. In other words, if there is a serious split over two guys, with Rhule wanting one and Gettleman the other, I fear the Gettleman mantra - "that's why they pay me the big bucks" - will prevail. Which makes me ill...
Is there a link? If not you should stop referring to it as truth.
And he knows it. The East will be harder to win - Dallas may have finally fixed their legendary ineptness, Philly has an outstanding coach, even the Skins have Rivera/Del Rio.
If he causes Judge to trip over his fat butt, his name will live in infamy.
about the top 4 rushing teams making the playoffs and the top 4 passing teams not making the playoffs, and using that as a rational for why we need to run the ball and stop the run, showed a complete fundamental misunderstanding of the underlying statistics.
Hey Dave, teams that kneel the ball at the end of games win 99.9999% of the games, maybe we should focus on leading the league in kneeling the ball!
Hopefully Judge has major major major impact on personnel. Gettleman embarrasses himself half the time he talks. He should stick to scouting.
That had to be expected after what people like Jay Glazer said. Mara really chose Gettleman and there wasn't going to be much change in hierarchy.
As long as they let Judge choose his own coaching staff (and you don't end up with a whole bunch of former Carolina Panthers coaches), I wouldn't worry about it.
Guarantee after seeing Judge shot out of a fucking cannon today that he'll fight for the 53 he wants to take into battle.
"That's why they pay me the big bucks..."
So no change in process at Jints Central. Back to "normal".
"That's why they pay me the big bucks..."
So no change in process at Jints Central. Back to "normal".
Looks like the Bat Signal was just activated.
Now try to work in a reference to the "Giants Way". It might take another lie to do it, but I have faith....
Gettleman is support staff.
Gettleman is support staff.
Agree with this.
"That's why they pay me the big bucks..."
So no change in process at Jints Central. Back to "normal".
Link?
Quote:
to McDaniels in their 2018 interview about personnel...
"That's why they pay me the big bucks..."
So no change in process at Jints Central. Back to "normal".
Looks like the Bat Signal was just activated.
Now try to work in a reference to the "Giants Way". It might take another lie to do it, but I have faith....
You know, I'm actually feeling better right now where this team might be. Judge just might be a diamond in the rough.
I'm hoping he's as strong behind closed doors as is his in front of a microphone and can really push on Gettleman to get his way...
True. The person most responsible for Daniel Jones being a NY Giant is actually Pat Shurmur, even though DG made the decision ultimately. I would just prefer letting a coach succeed or fail entirely on their own merits and decisions and not after finding out a GM chose their OC and DC and signed some WR they didn't want.
Quote:
to McDaniels in their 2018 interview about personnel...
"That's why they pay me the big bucks..."
So no change in process at Jints Central. Back to "normal".
Link?
It was posted last week as something another poster heard in a podcast. May have been Lombardi...??
Regardless, and be honest, do you have any problem at all hearing Gettleman saying that? I mean, that would be CLASSIC Gettleman...
Exactly.
And when you think about it, how many players are actually in the debate?
It's not like all 53. We can practically name about the first 45.
We're talking a handful of players, and the GM would be silly not to listen to the staff who will be coaching the players.
Collaboration.
don't give me BB, he may be the GM in a sense but he's one of the very few who have anywhere near the amount of power he has.
heres a list from 2013
Bill Belichick of the New England Patriots
Mike Shanahan of the Washington Redskins OUT OF THE LEAGUE and its the redskins so what does that really mean?
Sean Payton of the New Orleans Saints
Pete Carroll of the Seattle Seahawks
Chip Kelly of the Philadelphia Eagles OUT OF THE LEAGUE
Jeff Fisher of the St. Louis Rams OUT OF THE LEAGUE
you guys want to give any tom dick and "joe" full control of the roster? Coaches coach and GMs find players for their coaches.
I expect he will bring that level of expertise to collaborating with DG and will have significant input.
does that sound like he's picking all his groceries or him and his GM loomis collaborate on who they think would be right for this team?
Frankly, I think that Judge and DG are simpatico on a tough, physical team and will make decisions accordingly.
An example might be they have a productive player that has performed coming up on free agency (and not quite worth the 2nd contract). GM should be looking ahead and looking for that type in the draft.
Because they appear to have the same football philosophies, I guess you have to call Judge a trog, too.
Gettleman is support staff.
I was thinking this too.
No way he would strip Gettleman down in public on his first day on the job
So Alex Tanney remaining as a third QB was a Gettleman choice?
GM and coach work together on the 53...pretty simple. its his first day, you think he is gonna say nah DG will have to listen to me? He knows they are both going to work together, he was just giving the PC answer.
Today was a great day! We introduced a coach who seems to have a great plan. Mara seems on board with his plan, i doubt a GM gets in the way of that. they are both old school mentality and i expect them to work well with each other to form the roster judge feels is best to implement his style of play. Can BBI be happy for ONCE?
So Alex Tanney remaining as a third QB was a Gettleman choice?
Please don't be thick as a brick. I guarantee you Tanney on that roster was solely on Shurmur.
However, the GM always, always, and forever has final say on the team - he's the one that signs the contracts. Does not mean Gettleman is going to run roughshod over Judge's wishes. They may disagree on a final piece or two and it may come down to contract numbers on players of equal value.
Let's remember that Parcells and Young pissed in each others cereal on occasion.
Let's go to last draft. Shurmur wanted Jones. Gettleman wanted Josh Allen - he said it. He said it killed him not to take Allen, but a QB trumps an ER/OLB and he feared Jones would not be there at 17. So he took Jones.
I do think Gettleman will get better input from Judge vis a vie players than Shurmur. I am absolutely certain that based on Judge's meticulous attention to detail if he wants X player he will get X player.
The final 53 -- which is never "final," will be determined ON THE FIELD by the Head Coach.
If JJ is telling DG, "I can't use this guy. He doesn't fit what we're doing." I expect DG (who is already on notice about his job), to listen, and be "the support staff for the coaches," he keeps claiming to be, and make any necessary changes.
Nothing that such players are hard to find and the Pats don't have a fantastic track record in the draft. They do, however, have a great history of turning other teams' cast-offs into very useful players.
Quote:
In comment 14770453 bw in dc said:
Quote:
to McDaniels in their 2018 interview about personnel...
"That's why they pay me the big bucks..."
So no change in process at Jints Central. Back to "normal".
Link?
It was posted last week as something another poster heard in a podcast. May have been Lombardi...??
Regardless, and be honest, do you have any problem at all hearing Gettleman saying that? I mean, that would be CLASSIC Gettleman...
On 1/3 you said
bw in dc : 1/3/2020 10:15 pm : link : reply
posted earlier this week that McDaniels may have been turned off two years ago by Gettleman. McDaniels asked how disputes are resolved over differences in personnel and apparently Gettleman said, "...that's why they pay me the big bucks..."
So Gettleman...
And latrer when pressed for a link
RE: RE: Someone (Sean?)...
bw in dc : 1/3/2020 10:31 pm : link : reply
In comment 14755655 Saquads26 said:
Quote:
In comment 14755634 bw in dc said:
Quote:
posted earlier this week that McDaniels may have been turned off two years ago by Gettleman. McDaniels asked how disputes are resolved over differences in personnel and apparently Gettleman said, "...that's why they pay me the big bucks..."
So Gettleman...
Link to a direct quote from McDaniels?
There wasn't. Sounded like a rumor.
On 1/6 it was a mantra
bw in dc : 1/6/2020 5:37 pm : link : reply
In comment 14761488 DanielJonesNYG8 said:
Quote:
The buzz from the beginning has been this is the Giants guy. So let’s assume they reach the point where they begin discussing details. Potential sticking points:
- Rhule has a huge buyout he needs to pay, plus no state income tax, much lower cost of living in Texas than NJ. If he factors in all he’s probably gonna ask for $7-10 million a year. Somewhere in that window.
- Personnel. Is he going to want final say in the ingredients? Without getting that written into his deal he’s powerless to know he will be heard.
- Staff. His deal last year fell apart over staff. Are the Giants going to let him bring whoever regardless of experience level or lack thereof.
I'm not in the Rhule camp, but if he doesn't get to hire whomever he wants as his assistants then he shouldn't be here. Do a 180 and fly back to Waco - or Charlotte - because we are a sink hole as an organization.
I seriously doubt he gets final say. In other words, if there is a serious split over two guys, with Rhule wanting one and Gettleman the other, I fear the Gettleman mantra - "that's why they pay me the big bucks" - will prevail. Which makes me ill...
Is there a link? If not you should stop referring to it as truth.
And he knows it. The East will be harder to win - Dallas may have finally fixed their legendary ineptness, Philly has an outstanding coach, even the Skins have Rivera/Del Rio.
If he causes Judge to trip over his fat butt, his name will live in infamy.
Hey Dave, teams that kneel the ball at the end of games win 99.9999% of the games, maybe we should focus on leading the league in kneeling the ball!
Hopefully Judge has major major major impact on personnel. Gettleman embarrasses himself half the time he talks. He should stick to scouting.