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Transcript: General Manager Dave Gettleman

Eric from BBI : Admin : 1/9/2020 6:12 pm
General Manager Dave Gettleman -- January 9, 2020

Q: I know John (Mara) told us that he felt as though Monday afternoon, the search was over. What were your feelings when you exited the interview with Joe (Judge)?
A: You know, I felt the exact same way. The interesting thing, when you go through an interview process, youíre looking for the broad view, youíre looking for intelligence and we talked about that. The thing that was really amazing to me was, and he said it, it really was just a conversation. Thatís really what it was. It was easy for him. The biggest thing when youíre hiring a head coach is you have to picture him in front of the room. He has to command that kind of respect. Yeah, for me, it was the same.

Q: Letís get this big picture question out of the way. Obviously, we understand Giants, personnel, collaborative. If you disagree, who has the final say?
A: At the end of the day, itís about building consensus and itís about getting to the right place. Iíve been doing this long enough with Ron (Rivera) and then Pat (Shurmur), whatever. Weíre going to get to the right place. Itís notÖ Itís about the right answer.

Q: Itís not slamming your fist down?
A: No, Iíve never done that in my life. Except when, no Iím only kidding. I canít say it. I canít give you a throwaway line. Bottom line is, itís collaborative.

Q: Iíve heard some people say so Iíll ask you, thereís this perception from some that itís going to be Dave Gettleman picking the players and itís Joe Judgeís job to coach them. Do you feel that way?
A: No. Itís going to be collaborative. I donít understand where that notion comes from. That notion has got to be coming from people that have never worked with me.

Q: That is the Giants way. In the past, that was George Youngís statement, right? The GM picks the players.
A: There was a way, way back in the day. It was scouts scout, players play, coachesí coach, etc. That world has changed.

Q: Is there anywhere in particular you and Joe align in terms of your philosophies about team-building and how you want him to coach this team and all that stuff?
A: First of all, he has to coach the team the way he feels comfortable. The biggest thing was when he came in and said, ĎYou have to run the ball, you have to stop the run, and letís play special teams.í Thereís a toughness that you develop when you build your team to do those kinds of things. People say itís a passing league, I get that, but that graphic on Sunday afternoon should not have been lost on everybody. Top four passing teams were not in the playoffs, the top four rushing teams were in the playoffs. Donít quote me but most of the teams were in the top I think 12 in terms of rushing. Again, itís a physical, violent game and if you donít build your team to do that late in the year when the weatherís lousy and itís mush out there, the tougher team is going to win.

Q: I know Joe is hesitant to talk about the roster until he can actually get in the building and dig in. But from your dealings with him, I would imagine that he feels the same way about Daniel Jones as you guys do, right? Is there any change in what you feel about Daniel and how heís the quarterback here?
A: Itís like Joe said. Heís on the outside looking in the periphery. We believe Daniel is our guy.

Q: And you have no reason to believe he doesnít believeÖ
A: I havenít had the chance to have a conversation with him yet. Really.

Q: How much was he part of the interviews, Daniel, in general?
A: The interviews are more philosophical. They really are. Itís whereís your head, whereís our head, and can the two heads get together and mush. Thatís really what that is. You donít go player by player by player down the roster. You canít.

Q: Joe spoke about fundamentals and all of the scheme stuff will kind of fall into place. Do you think all along people put too much emphasis on scheme and the importance of scheme and not enough on fundamentals?
A: Absolutely, absolutely. The bottom line is, thereís an old saying in coaching, ĎThe last guy with the chalk wins.í At the end of the day if youíre not fundamentally sound, and you look at the teams, me as an evaluator, watching the teams that are in the playoffs, they are all fundamentally sound.

Q: When did he pop up on your radar? The general fan doesnít know who Joe Judge is, so when did he show up for you guys?
A: Every once in a while, you get into conversations about coaches around the league with other guys. Joeís name kept popping up for me. Again, so you look at the resume, you look at the background, you say, okay, wait a minuteó five championships in 10 years, worked for Belichick, worked for Saban, did the grunt work like a lot of us did, lining the fields and working at Birmingham-Southern.

Q: Birmingham-Southern.
A: Birmingham-Southern. You know what Iím saying? He did all of that stuff. When you get a guy whoís had dirt under his fingers, thereís a, I donít know the word that Iím looking for, thereís just a comfortableness there that says he understands it, he comes from the ground up.

Q: You went through the process, you have an open mind, but if youíre being honest with yourself were you surprised you end up with him at the end?
A: You donít know. You donít know. You have to go in with an open mind. You canít say, ĎHeís the guy.í You canít do that. You canít cloud your thinking, you have to take each individual as you interview them and go from there.

Q: Heís never been in this role before, but he seems to have a pretty specific vision for the type of team and players he wants. How has the structure in terms of personnel maybe changed or how is that setup going forward with you and Joe working together?
A: Weíre going to work together. Iím not exactly sure what youíre saying.

Q: I guess what Iím trying to say is, do you have final say over personnel?
A: Itís collaborative. It is collaborative, weíll work through every situation.

Q: With that being said, you mentioned the ground up approach. Whatís the biggest thing you think he needs to learn and how can you help him in the head coaching?
A: Iíve got to get to know him a lot better before I make that statement. The bottom line is he is foundationally sound, heís got a great philosophy, he understands about teaching, itís all of that stuff that he gets that has me excited.

Q: What does Ďold schoolí mean to you?
A: Old school to me means youíre always going to be strong with the basics. The fancy schmancy is nice, but you get to that when your basics are sound. To me, thatís what old school is.

Q: You were happy to hear him use the words Ďold schoolí?
A: Doesnít bother me (laughter).

Q: How confident are you that heíll be able to work with the quarterback? I know heís got to work with all 53 butÖ
A: Heís going to work with everybody. Everywhere heís been heís worked with the whole team as a special teams coordinator. Listen, Daniel is a great kid, heís a great young man and itís going to be fine.
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RE: RE: RE: Sigh  
DonQuixote : 1/9/2020 10:54 pm : link
In comment 14770700 section125 said:
Quote:
In comment 14770684 bw in dc said:


Quote:


In comment 14770668 AdamBrag said:


Quote:


This quote sums up some of the main problems with Gettleman:

"Q: Is there anywhere in particular you and Joe align in terms of your philosophies about team-building and how you want him to coach this team and all that stuff?

A: First of all, he has to coach the team the way he feels comfortable. The biggest thing was when he came in and said, ĎYou have to run the ball, you have to stop the run, and letís play special teams.í Thereís a toughness that you develop when you build your team to do those kinds of things. People say itís a passing league, I get that, but that graphic on Sunday afternoon should not have been lost on everybody. Top four passing teams were not in the playoffs, the top four rushing teams were in the playoffs. Donít quote me but most of the teams were in the top I think 12 in terms of rushing. Again, itís a physical, violent game and if you donít build your team to do that late in the year when the weatherís lousy and itís mush out there, the tougher team is going to win."

It shows he doesn't even understand the basics of analytics. Teams that are winning can run the ball more. Teams that are behind pass the ball more. That's why using pure rushing and passing stats is a major fallacy. There is no way he's meeting with a lot of people in analytics if he's pushing this nonsense.

It shows he's still building a team that is going to be designed around stopping the run. If you look at the best defensive teams in the NFL, their main focus is stopping the pass.

This discussion was the main thing he liked about Joe Judge! I interpret this to mean he's so stubborn about his outdated view he's going to double down on it.




I loved the "...but that graphic on Sunday afternoon should not have been lost on everybody..."

In other words, he just saw it on TV - probably for the first time - and that confirms his intuition...



Yeah that's what it means, he didn't know it. I guy that has been preaching running the ball and stopping the run wouldn't know that teams that run the football win. Bill Parcells use to always quote Lombardi, who said when you throw the ball three things can happen and two are not good.


It is getting annoying "listening" to you twist words to fit your narrative.

Nick Wright was ranting on this exact point, endlessly. It is not saying anything wrong or counter analytics to say you have to run the ball to be successful. A lot of it is imposing your will on the other team. Wright was actually saying the run game is irrelevant. How does he keep his job?
RE: RE: RE: Gettleman didnít really say anything  
bw in dc : 1/9/2020 10:54 pm : link
In comment 14770980 Bill L said:
Quote:

Iíve got a bot going that triggers an alarm every time you post. Iím that much of a fan. Itís a pretty cool thing too because the thread opens automatically and your posts get highlighted in burgundy and gold
(sort of like your jerseys) so I can easily find them.


Time to join the Dupes!
RE: RE: RE: RE: Gettleman didnít really say anything  
Bill L : 1/9/2020 10:59 pm : link
In comment 14770998 bw in dc said:
Quote:
In comment 14770980 Bill L said:


Quote:



Iíve got a bot going that triggers an alarm every time you post. Iím that much of a fan. Itís a pretty cool thing too because the thread opens automatically and your posts get highlighted in burgundy and gold
(sort of like your jerseys) so I can easily find them.



Time to join the Dupes!


Hmmm...you'll probably want to call your Posse to round us up.
How there can be a 60+ post dialogue 'analyzing' or 'critiquing'...  
Torrag : 1/9/2020 11:03 pm : link
DG's extremely vanilla and rote Q&A from today on the hire is ample evidence this board has lost all impartiality relating to our GM.

The extrapolations, mental gymnastics and interpretations to twist his simple words and thoughts today are proof that people just hear what they want to hear and flat out make it up if they don't.
RE: How there can be a 60+ post dialogue 'analyzing' or 'critiquing'...  
Giants38 : 1/9/2020 11:21 pm : link
In comment 14771008 Torrag said:
Quote:
DG's extremely vanilla and rote Q&A from today on the hire is ample evidence this board has lost all impartiality relating to our GM.

The extrapolations, mental gymnastics and interpretations to twist his simple words and thoughts today are proof that people just hear what they want to hear and flat out make it up if they don't.


I'm not criticizing the guy for today. I think he actually went out of his way to avoid the moronic quotes that were staples of his previous interviews. You have to think Mara told him to knock it off.
let him insist you have to run the ball  
santacruzom : 1/10/2020 1:06 am : link
Will he be able to build a team that can run the ball?
I despise gettleman  
jwebb20 : 1/10/2020 1:23 am : link
last year CC teams: YPC given up

2018
NE tied third worst (4.7)
LAR tied second worst (4.8)
NO best (3.8)
KC tied worst (4.9)



2019
3 worst YPC given up:
Carolina, Jacksonville, Cleveland
3 best YPC given up:
Tampa bay, jets, Pittsburgh, nyg



data in a vacuum: inconclusive
data in context: get good at something whether its the pass or run. passing the ball contributes more to generating points than rushing. this is an incontrovertible fact because pass plays are far more likey to generate 10+yard gains.
its deeply ironic  
jwebb20 : 1/10/2020 1:25 am : link
2019 NYG:

tied 3rd best for YPC given up (3.9)
ranked 30th for PPG given up (28.2)


stopped the run but
gave up 28 ppg
more hilarious Gettleman cliches in action  
jwebb20 : 1/10/2020 1:37 am : link
in terms of pure production, giants were ranked 22nd in sacks per game (2.2) and also 22nd in sack%.

so


slightly below avg pass rush+
top 3 rushing defense


still netted them third worst defense in terms of PPG given up at 28.2

its really interesting  
jwebb20 : 1/10/2020 1:43 am : link
and it shows why PFF was right IMO.


the highest sack% teams are at 10%.


so the best sack % teams are getting 3 sacks for every 30 dropbacks. you're getting 3 incompletions a game guaranteed off that. 3/30

the best "coverage" teams can impact a play far more often because they force incompletions via PD and forcing tighter throws. this happens 27/30 times.


so the raw impact of having better coverage is far more valuable than the actual pass rush because pass rush only registered 3/30 times.


NOW you may argue "what about QB hits!! and throwaways" even if you quantify those and add them into the 3/30 you're still not going to get more than 15/30 passes.


the giants 2019 raw stats illustrate this issue perfectly. they had the third worst defense in terms of PPG, a slightly below avg pass rush, and the third best rushing defense.

being able to cover receivers is king.
'tied 3rd best for YPC given up...ranked 30th for PPG given up '  
Torrag : 1/10/2020 1:47 am : link
So...did you watch the Giants games? Which unit of the defense is furthest along personnel wise? It's obviously the DL. LW, Dex, Tommy, BJ and Co. How does the back 8 compare? Favorably or unfavorably? So when you're front is the best part of your defense it stands to reason your run defense is going to be better than your pass defense.

Currently our struggles in pass defense are responsible for poor results. But the job of building the roster isn't complete. Lots of young talented guys competing. Certainly more additions to come. Hopefully much better coaching.

You mentioned vacuums and it's true nothing happens in a vacuum. In your analysis you failed to factor in our specific defensive roster strengths and weaknesses. When you do your observations and conclusions die on the vine.
I just donít get how DG is ďignoringĒ stopping the pass  
Giants4Life : 1/10/2020 2:31 am : link
When he spent a ton of draft capital on 4 CBs including trading up for a first rounder
Then traded for peppers whoís a better cover safety than Collins

Why because he doesnt have an elite pass rusher yet? Cuz they just grow on trees right., He got Golden and drafted Carter and Xman too in a hope they develop.

Half of this is just nonsense
lol this site sometimes.  
Tim in Eternal Blue : 1/10/2020 7:06 am : link
The top teams in the playoffs this year can run the football and play defense.

That's been a championship formula since the beginning of football.

The trashing of DG has almost become political at this point. You are either a DG fan or you aren't and nothing is going to change your mind. Fucking weird.
RE: lol this site sometimes.  
Jimmy Googs : 1/10/2020 7:44 am : link
In comment 14771114 Tim in Eternal Blue said:
Quote:

The trashing of DG has almost become political at this point. You are either a DG fan or you aren't and nothing is going to change your mind. Fucking weird.


Now that the braintrust has moved on from Eli, it seemed fairly natural to move solely onto DG don't you think?

Don't do stupid things this free agency, find value in draft and win more games. Than FMiC will call less people fuck-nuts.

Ah...who am I kidding, no he won't...
This was a beaut' though by DG...  
Jimmy Googs : 1/10/2020 7:50 am : link
Quote:
"People say itís a passing league, I get that, but that graphic on Sunday afternoon should not have been lost on everybody. Top four passing teams were not in the playoffs, the top four rushing teams were in the playoffs. Donít quote me but most of the teams were in the top I think 12 in terms of rushing."


Maybe this weekend he'll see something that depicts the teams that score more points than their opponents are in the playoffs too...
People  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 1/10/2020 8:03 am : link
are getting too wrapped up in the word "analytics"... THIS was the most important exchange yesterday:

Q: Weíve had the opportunity to see your special teams play. What is your offensive philosophy? Do you have an offensive system that youíre going to bring definitely?
A: Again, I think every offensive system has to have levels of multiples that we have to be flexible with in both our personnel and our scheme to match up each opponent game by game. My overall philosophy is we have to be able to put pressure on opponents, and we have to do that with what we have available and what they donít do well. So, that includes being versatile and multiple in what you do.

Q: Is that the same defensively?
A: Itís the same across the board. Listen, weíre going to play whatever is best for our team and our personnel. 3-4, 4-3, man coverage, zone coverage, weíll find out what fits us best and weíll wait until we play against our opponents. Running the ball, throwing the ball, itís, again, whatever is best week by week by opponent is how weíll address it.
Eric..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 1/10/2020 8:07 am : link
I agree. That's the formula the Pats have used, and it isn't just like saying it is easy to pull off, but it is a departure from the system coaches we have had with Shurmur and Mac.

I've often felt that we were going to try to do something and come hell or high water, we were going to stick with it. And the record shows that type of plan failed a lot. A lot.
Save your analytics for another thread  
aGiantGuy : 1/10/2020 8:14 am : link
Gettleman ensembles this roster and guess what? There isnít a run stopping linebacker on the whole team. He traded away BJ Goodson who was the only run stopping lb on the roster.

He started Lorenzo Carter, a pass rush specialist, Markus Golden, a pass rush specialist, Ogletree, a lb that canít fill gaps but can cover rbís, and Going by training camp, planned to start Tae Davis, who was supposed to be a coverage lb. How in the world is that spending all your resources on creating an elite run defense???

He is simply delegating the DL to run stopping which allows the LBís to focus on pass rushing and pass coverage. 11 players make a defense, NOT THREE. Him trying to get 3 players in here that are dominant in stopping the run doesnít mean heís out of touch. The Ravens have three run stoppers, the Steelers have three run stoppers.

If you keep focusing on what Gettleman is saying rather than his actions youíre gonna keep parroting nonsense. What do you think his next step on defense is, now that he has Leonard Williams. If you answered acquire pass rushing talent then you are absolutely correct, watch it unfold.
About Gettlemanís quote, the question is:  
cosmicj : 1/10/2020 8:19 am : link
1) does he not understand the rushing success data better than to quote an obviously flawed set of statistics? OR

2) does he know the stats are flawed but he refers to them anyway because he thinks the sorts of fans who would read an interview by an NFL GM (ie, hard core football fans) donít know any better?

When readers are forced to infer either ignorance or arrogance in a quote, you know itís been put wrong. Another foot-in-mouth statement from Dave.
Eric...  
bw in dc : 1/10/2020 8:35 am : link
Thatís great from Judgeís mouth. And frankly thatís what I would expect from someone who has been exposed to Belichick and Saban for the last seven years. No issues.

But this discussion is about another flawed comment from Gettleman where he cites a flawed rushing star to buttress his old school philosophy that running the ball is paramount for success. Itís just sophomoric. The stat was just basic yards/game and the regular season leaders. And coincidentally most of them were in the playoffs.

There is more layered context why those teams got to that basic aggregate stat. QBs who are tops in YPA, getting the lead, growing the lead, defensive stops, winning on first and second down, etc.

Iíve never been more convinced he doesnít connect all of those dots. If you donít, I think it impacts your ability to build a good team...
RE: Sigh  
UConn4523 : 1/10/2020 8:36 am : link
In comment 14770668 AdamBrag said:
Quote:
This quote sums up some of the main problems with Gettleman:

"Q: Is there anywhere in particular you and Joe align in terms of your philosophies about team-building and how you want him to coach this team and all that stuff?

A: First of all, he has to coach the team the way he feels comfortable. The biggest thing was when he came in and said, ĎYou have to run the ball, you have to stop the run, and letís play special teams.í Thereís a toughness that you develop when you build your team to do those kinds of things. People say itís a passing league, I get that, but that graphic on Sunday afternoon should not have been lost on everybody. Top four passing teams were not in the playoffs, the top four rushing teams were in the playoffs. Donít quote me but most of the teams were in the top I think 12 in terms of rushing. Again, itís a physical, violent game and if you donít build your team to do that late in the year when the weatherís lousy and itís mush out there, the tougher team is going to win."

It shows he doesn't even understand the basics of analytics. Teams that are winning can run the ball more. Teams that are behind pass the ball more. That's why using pure rushing and passing stats is a major fallacy. There is no way he's meeting with a lot of people in analytics if he's pushing this nonsense.

It shows he's still building a team that is going to be designed around stopping the run. If you look at the best defensive teams in the NFL, their main focus is stopping the pass.

This discussion was the main thing he liked about Joe Judge! I interpret this to mean he's so stubborn about his outdated view he's going to double down on it.


That's a huge take away from a couple of sentences. I know people will want to focus on whatever backs up their own POV but he's discussing why running is important still, not why passing isn't important.
Simple logic tells us  
aGiantGuy : 1/10/2020 8:38 am : link
That if he invests a six overall pick on a ď2nd roundĒ qb that he has to value the passing game more than he gives off.

I donít get why people assume he doesnít like analytics. Oshane X was an analytics freak in college, analytics says a lb with a good 10 yd split is valuable, check Ryan Connelly, analytics says a receiver with a good 40 us dash time and a good vertical jump is valuable, check Darius Slayton.

The idea that Gettleman is against analytics is confirmation bias after the Saquon Barkley pick
...  
ryanmkeane : 1/10/2020 8:42 am : link
kinda weird to me that everyone is going nuts over Judge being the guy, and yet...Gettleman probably had a huge hand in hiring him. That fact somehow gets lost in the daily bash Gettleman thread. Give it a rest guys. He's our GM.
It's just the preamble to an announcement of the Leonard Williams  
Jimmy Googs : 1/10/2020 8:46 am : link
deal for 15% of the cap.

Or worse, crickets on it...
RE: Simple logic tells us  
bw in dc : 1/10/2020 9:03 am : link
In comment 14771267 aGiantGuy said:
Quote:
That if he invests a six overall pick on a ď2nd roundĒ qb that he has to value the passing game more than he gives off.

I donít get why people assume he doesnít like analytics. Oshane X was an analytics freak in college, analytics says a lb with a good 10 yd split is valuable, check Ryan Connelly, analytics says a receiver with a good 40 us dash time and a good vertical jump is valuable, check Darius Slayton.

The idea that Gettleman is against analytics is confirmation bias after the Saquon Barkley pick


Uh, Eli was 78 years old. It was time to find his replacement.

Iím sure he has a superficial interest and understanding. But thatís all Iím willing to concede. There are other moves and comments that suggest heís still behind the curve.
RE: RE: Simple logic tells us  
aGiantGuy : 1/10/2020 9:12 am : link
In comment 14771349 bw in dc said:
Quote:
In comment 14771267 aGiantGuy said:


Quote:


That if he invests a six overall pick on a ď2nd roundĒ qb that he has to value the passing game more than he gives off.

I donít get why people assume he doesnít like analytics. Oshane X was an analytics freak in college, analytics says a lb with a good 10 yd split is valuable, check Ryan Connelly, analytics says a receiver with a good 40 us dash time and a good vertical jump is valuable, check Darius Slayton.

The idea that Gettleman is against analytics is confirmation bias after the Saquon Barkley pick



Uh, Eli was 78 years old. It was time to find his replacement.

Iím sure he has a superficial interest and understanding. But thatís all Iím willing to concede. There are other moves and comments that suggest heís still behind the curve.

Fighting that heís behind the curve is completely different than trying to prove heís against analytics altogether, which it seems some posters here are trying to do. I personally, wouldnít say heís behind the curve, but I definitely wouldnít say heís ahead of the curve either.
All things considered  
Jimmy Googs : 1/10/2020 9:15 am : link
he sure is shit isn't ahead of the curve...
Watch the playoff games.  
Britt in VA : 1/10/2020 9:35 am : link
All four of those games last week were played and won with some combination of running the ball, controlling the clock/LOS, and playing good defense.

Nobody lit it up through the air last weekend. We'll see if that rings true this weekend.

At the end of the day, it may be a passing league in the regular season, but when shit gets tight teams that run the ball and play defense still have an advantage. And if you have those things, you probably have a shot at being a consistent contender.

And in our two playoff runs, it was especially clear.
I don't care what the graphic said or what the stats said....  
Britt in VA : 1/10/2020 9:36 am : link
or what the metrics/analytics yard per shit said.

They were tight games that were won/lost at the LOS.
And that's what Gettleman was saying.  
Britt in VA : 1/10/2020 9:37 am : link
.
these takes are simplistic and laughable  
Gettledogman : 1/10/2020 9:38 am : link
First hes right the championship teams can run the ball and stop the run -it gives your offensive team more time to score. We can now stop the run and put offenses in 3rd and long -now we need to build up the back 7 to get off the field.

Second when weather turns bad so does passing game. Its much harder to pass and minimize turnovers, obv run game works in bad weather.

Third the fact that some feel he doesn't know how important covering the pass game is ludicrous. How much draft capital did he just expend on the secondary? Trade for Peppers? Pressuring the QB will be added this offseason.

Fourth This is the same guy that brought in AP and Kawicka as LBrs for the championship runs. Anyone remember those guys?

Look the team is headed in the right direction -we have had 2 very good drafts so --Come on guys, Give Dave a Break.
I wonder  
crick n NC : 1/10/2020 9:46 am : link
If there is much effort to view what Gettleman says in a different light other than what we think he means. It's similar to his "mocking of analytics". He certainly could have been mocking analytics, but it occurred to me that perhaps he was mocking those who don't understand analytics and use them improperly as in, "how will we solve "x" problem?"

"Oh, that's easy, let's just punch in the numbers and magically we'll have our answer"

I really think a lot of fans have decided that Gettleman is wrong at every turn. In fact I think there is an effort to spin anything he says as negative. I feel I see more of that than fans spinning everything he says as a positive or as correct. I feel a lot of fans on here get labeled as defenders when all they are doing is taking each decision or quote and measuring it with different angles.
Funny TC was labeled ďold fashioned, out of touchĒ until he won the SB  
GloryDayz : 1/10/2020 9:47 am : link
Then Giants fire him & stick with JR & Marc Ross, and turn into a bottom tier team.

Football is football, concepts & trends change, but basic ďold fashionedĒ principals remain the same.

Ironically, everybody loved Judgeís PC (including me), yet his philosophy is not too far from the classic, tough, hard nosed, well prepared with a more modern twist, namely versatility
RE: Watch the playoff games.  
Jimmy Googs : 1/10/2020 9:48 am : link
In comment 14771435 Britt in VA said:
Quote:
All four of those games last week were played and won with some combination of running the ball, controlling the clock/LOS, and playing good defense.

Nobody lit it up through the air last weekend. We'll see if that rings true this weekend.

At the end of the day, it may be a passing league in the regular season, but when shit gets tight teams that run the ball and play defense still have an advantage. And if you have those things, you probably have a shot at being a consistent contender.

And in our two playoff runs, it was especially clear.


agree with all of this as well...
RE: Funny TC was labeled ďold fashioned, out of touchĒ until he won the SB  
Gettledogman : 1/10/2020 9:51 am : link
In comment 14771467 GloryDayz said:
Quote:
Then Giants fire him & stick with JR & Marc Ross, and turn into a bottom tier team.

Football is football, concepts & trends change, but basic ďold fashionedĒ principals remain the same.

Ironically, everybody loved Judgeís PC (including me), yet his philosophy is not too far from the classic, tough, hard nosed, well prepared with a more modern twist, namely versatility


Exactly..
RE: RE: RE: Simple logic tells us  
Giants38 : 1/10/2020 9:51 am : link
In comment 14771383 aGiantGuy said:
Quote:
In comment 14771349 bw in dc said:


Quote:


In comment 14771267 aGiantGuy said:


Quote:


That if he invests a six overall pick on a ď2nd roundĒ qb that he has to value the passing game more than he gives off.

I donít get why people assume he doesnít like analytics. Oshane X was an analytics freak in college, analytics says a lb with a good 10 yd split is valuable, check Ryan Connelly, analytics says a receiver with a good 40 us dash time and a good vertical jump is valuable, check Darius Slayton.

The idea that Gettleman is against analytics is confirmation bias after the Saquon Barkley pick



Uh, Eli was 78 years old. It was time to find his replacement.

Iím sure he has a superficial interest and understanding. But thatís all Iím willing to concede. There are other moves and comments that suggest heís still behind the curve.


Fighting that heís behind the curve is completely different than trying to prove heís against analytics altogether, which it seems some posters here are trying to do. I personally, wouldnít say heís behind the curve, but I definitely wouldnít say heís ahead of the curve either.


He literally mocked a guy after the Saquon pick for even mentioning analytics. This year he referred to their analytics department as "four computer folks". When you say and act like Gettleman has, people no longer give you the benefit of the doubt that analytics are strongly woven into anything you do.
Fans certainly don't need to use "spin" at all  
Jimmy Googs : 1/10/2020 9:54 am : link
to be critical in aspects of what DG has done/said in the past 2 years...
The hate for DG is beyond stupid  
Reale01 : 1/10/2020 9:57 am : link
Gettleman is a lot smarter than you give him credit. He is NOT going to tell you every nuance of his thinking. He dumbs down what is actually a complex answer and people kill him for it. The reality is that football strategy shifts from game to game and play to play. Judge clearly gets it. Look at the quotes that Eric put up.

Teams will attack the weakest link in your defense.

You will never win if you cannot stop the run. The other team will control the clock and will rarely turn the ball over. They may score less points, but that is only because it shortens the game. Your team will score WAY less and even the best offense cannot score when they are not on the field.

All stats can be skewed to some extent. Someone earlier in the thread was talking about the best teams playing less stacked boxes and used that to say that stopping the run was not their priority. I expect that this is because they can stop the run with 7 players (SF) and do not need to stack the box.

Would you say that getting pressure on the QB is not important because the best teams rush 4 players. Well maybe they do that because they get enough pressure with 4.

Bottom line is that the best scenario occurs when teams can stop the run with 7 and pressure the passer with 4. You can work combinations off of that.
RE: Sigh  
Rory : 1/10/2020 10:05 am : link
In comment 14770668 AdamBrag said:
Quote:
This quote sums up some of the main problems with Gettleman:

"Q: Is there anywhere in particular you and Joe align in terms of your philosophies about team-building and how you want him to coach this team and all that stuff?

A: First of all, he has to coach the team the way he feels comfortable. The biggest thing was when he came in and said, ĎYou have to run the ball, you have to stop the run, and letís play special teams.í Thereís a toughness that you develop when you build your team to do those kinds of things. People say itís a passing league, I get that, but that graphic on Sunday afternoon should not have been lost on everybody. Top four passing teams were not in the playoffs, the top four rushing teams were in the playoffs. Donít quote me but most of the teams were in the top I think 12 in terms of rushing. Again, itís a physical, violent game and if you donít build your team to do that late in the year when the weatherís lousy and itís mush out there, the tougher team is going to win."

It shows he doesn't even understand the basics of analytics. Teams that are winning can run the ball more. Teams that are behind pass the ball more. That's why using pure rushing and passing stats is a major fallacy. There is no way he's meeting with a lot of people in analytics if he's pushing this nonsense.

It shows he's still building a team that is going to be designed around stopping the run. If you look at the best defensive teams in the NFL, their main focus is stopping the pass.

This discussion was the main thing he liked about Joe Judge! I interpret this to mean he's so stubborn about his outdated view he's going to double down on it.


over-analyzing, chill
RE: The hate for DG is beyond stupid  
Giants38 : 1/10/2020 10:22 am : link
In comment 14771494 Reale01 said:
Quote:
Gettleman is a lot smarter than you give him credit. He is NOT going to tell you every nuance of his thinking. He dumbs down what is actually a complex answer and people kill him for it. The reality is that football strategy shifts from game to game and play to play. Judge clearly gets it. Look at the quotes that Eric put up.

Teams will attack the weakest link in your defense.

You will never win if you cannot stop the run. The other team will control the clock and will rarely turn the ball over. They may score less points, but that is only because it shortens the game. Your team will score WAY less and even the best offense cannot score when they are not on the field.

All stats can be skewed to some extent. Someone earlier in the thread was talking about the best teams playing less stacked boxes and used that to say that stopping the run was not their priority. I expect that this is because they can stop the run with 7 players (SF) and do not need to stack the box.

Would you say that getting pressure on the QB is not important because the best teams rush 4 players. Well maybe they do that because they get enough pressure with 4.

Bottom line is that the best scenario occurs when teams can stop the run with 7 and pressure the passer with 4. You can work combinations off of that.


The statement that you can't win if you can't stop the run is flat out inaccurate. There are 8 teams remaining in the POs. Of them, only one - the Ravens - ranked in the top 10 at stopping the run, and even they gave up 4.4 YPC. The others - Tenn (12), Minnesota (ranked 13), SF (17), Seattle (22), GB (23), Houston (25), and KC (27).

So, the stats show that you need to stop the pass more than the run to be successful. Just saying.
All this talk is really bringing me around to picking Okudah  
cosmicj : 1/10/2020 10:23 am : link
.
RE: RE: The hate for DG is beyond stupid  
aGiantGuy : 1/10/2020 10:25 am : link
In comment 14771539 Giants38 said:
Quote:
In comment 14771494 Reale01 said:


Quote:


Gettleman is a lot smarter than you give him credit. He is NOT going to tell you every nuance of his thinking. He dumbs down what is actually a complex answer and people kill him for it. The reality is that football strategy shifts from game to game and play to play. Judge clearly gets it. Look at the quotes that Eric put up.

Teams will attack the weakest link in your defense.

You will never win if you cannot stop the run. The other team will control the clock and will rarely turn the ball over. They may score less points, but that is only because it shortens the game. Your team will score WAY less and even the best offense cannot score when they are not on the field.

All stats can be skewed to some extent. Someone earlier in the thread was talking about the best teams playing less stacked boxes and used that to say that stopping the run was not their priority. I expect that this is because they can stop the run with 7 players (SF) and do not need to stack the box.

Would you say that getting pressure on the QB is not important because the best teams rush 4 players. Well maybe they do that because they get enough pressure with 4.

Bottom line is that the best scenario occurs when teams can stop the run with 7 and pressure the passer with 4. You can work combinations off of that.



The statement that you can't win if you can't stop the run is flat out inaccurate. There are 8 teams remaining in the POs. Of them, only one - the Ravens - ranked in the top 10 at stopping the run, and even they gave up 4.4 YPC. The others - Tenn (12), Minnesota (ranked 13), SF (17), Seattle (22), GB (23), Houston (25), and KC (27).

So, the stats show that you need to stop the pass more than the run to be successful. Just saying.

Tenn, Minn, SF, Seattle, Houston all have great run stoppers on their team tho... only two teams on that list, GB and KC can you say donít have a good run defense personnel wise
RE: Watch the playoff games.  
bw in dc : 1/10/2020 10:26 am : link
In comment 14771435 Britt in VA said:
Quote:
All four of those games last week were played and won with some combination of running the ball, controlling the clock/LOS, and playing good defense.

Nobody lit it up through the air last weekend. We'll see if that rings true this weekend.

At the end of the day, it may be a passing league in the regular season, but when shit gets tight teams that run the ball and play defense still have an advantage. And if you have those things, you probably have a shot at being a consistent contender.

And in our two playoff runs, it was especially clear.


Well, you need to be able to get to the playoffs. And the best path these days isn't trying to establish the run.

Furthermore, the playoffs take on a life of their own, typically, as teams tend to get more conservative to avoid the big turnover/mistake because next week isn't guaranteed.
RE: The hate for DG is beyond stupid  
Greg from LI : 1/10/2020 10:51 am : link
In comment 14771494 Reale01 said:
Quote:
Gettleman is a lot smarter than you give him credit.


Don't sleep on Pio
RE: I don't care what the graphic said or what the stats said....  
Gettledogman : 1/10/2020 10:53 am : link
In comment 14771438 Britt in VA said:
Quote:
or what the metrics/analytics yard per shit said.

They were tight games that were won/lost at the LOS.


Always -Keeping the ball and keeping it away form the offense wins -See Giants vs Bills Super Bowl.
Love to be a fly on the wall  
bceagle05 : 1/10/2020 10:53 am : link
for the Judge/Gettleman conversation about Halapio after Judge studies all the tape from 2019.
RE: RE: I don't care what the graphic said or what the stats said....  
Reale01 : 1/10/2020 11:06 am : link
In comment 14771602 Gettledogman said:
Quote:
In comment 14771438 Britt in VA said:


Quote:


or what the metrics/analytics yard per shit said.

They were tight games that were won/lost at the LOS.



Always -Keeping the ball and keeping it away form the offense wins -See Giants vs Bills Super Bowl.


Parcells said, "Power wins games"
RE: RE: The hate for DG is beyond stupid  
Reale01 : 1/10/2020 11:09 am : link
In comment 14771596 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
In comment 14771494 Reale01 said:


Quote:


Gettleman is a lot smarter than you give him credit.



Don't sleep on Pio



What else is he gonna say about a guy who just got injured. Let's see what he does. On a lighter note, I expect it would be uncomfortable to sleep on Pio and that may have been what he meant.
RE: RE: RE: The hate for DG is beyond stupid  
Reale01 : 1/10/2020 11:16 am : link
In comment 14771552 aGiantGuy said:
Quote:
In comment 14771539 Giants38 said:


Quote:


In comment 14771494 Reale01 said:


Quote:


Gettleman is a lot smarter than you give him credit. He is NOT going to tell you every nuance of his thinking. He dumbs down what is actually a complex answer and people kill him for it. The reality is that football strategy shifts from game to game and play to play. Judge clearly gets it. Look at the quotes that Eric put up.

Teams will attack the weakest link in your defense.

You will never win if you cannot stop the run. The other team will control the clock and will rarely turn the ball over. They may score less points, but that is only because it shortens the game. Your team will score WAY less and even the best offense cannot score when they are not on the field.

All stats can be skewed to some extent. Someone earlier in the thread was talking about the best teams playing less stacked boxes and used that to say that stopping the run was not their priority. I expect that this is because they can stop the run with 7 players (SF) and do not need to stack the box.

Would you say that getting pressure on the QB is not important because the best teams rush 4 players. Well maybe they do that because they get enough pressure with 4.

Bottom line is that the best scenario occurs when teams can stop the run with 7 and pressure the passer with 4. You can work combinations off of that.



The statement that you can't win if you can't stop the run is flat out inaccurate. There are 8 teams remaining in the POs. Of them, only one - the Ravens - ranked in the top 10 at stopping the run, and even they gave up 4.4 YPC. The others - Tenn (12), Minnesota (ranked 13), SF (17), Seattle (22), GB (23), Houston (25), and KC (27).

So, the stats show that you need to stop the pass more than the run to be successful. Just saying.


Tenn, Minn, SF, Seattle, Houston all have great run stoppers on their team tho... only two teams on that list, GB and KC can you say donít have a good run defense personnel wise


You need to situationally do both to win. Stopping the run also tends to help stop the pass. It does not work as well to say that stopping the pass will help stop the run.

Also, some teams have had great pass defense stats because teams don't have to pass against them.
Someone should point out to Dave  
ajr2456 : 1/10/2020 11:33 am : link
That the graphic also said it was the first time since the 1970 merger that that has happened.

ďWhen it comes to the DVOA numbers, the top-10 rushing DVOA teams were 87-72-1, while the top-10 passing DVOA teams were 102-58.Ē

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