for display only
Big Blue Interactive The Corner Forum  
Back to the Corner

Archived Thread

Psychological Assessment of Judge Presser

BuryMeInBlue : 1/10/2020 2:27 pm
Hello, BBI. I'm a long-time Giants fan and I've been a lurker here for a number of years. I have always appreciated the opinions on this board and the analysis of Sy, Eric and others. I don't have a lot of free time to engage in discussion online about my favorite team, but I thought I'd share with you some tidbits from a psychological standpoint on the Joe Judge press conference yesterday and why I'm completely blown away.

A quick intro on me: I have a background of 16 years in law enforcement and psychology. One of the main aspects of my profession in criminology deals with profiling. It's something I do pretty heavily. Among other things, I've been trained to read people by how they react, their mannerisms while speaking, any physical tics or tells, lilts in voice, etc. It's not a perfect science, but you'd be surprised by just how on-the-mark profiles tend to be.

I watched, and re-watched twice more the Judge presser from yesterday and this guy totally blew me away based on two things:

1) How off-the-cuff he was with his responses. Quite a bit of his initial intro was rehearsed. Several of the lines were based on anticipated questions, practiced and delivered for effect (Miss Cleo, and one or two others), and I'm pretty sure a couple of the things he said were tried on Mr. Mara and DG during his interview process, and then slightly re-worded and regurgitated for the press.

That aside, he only consulted his notes a handful of times. While he didn't stray far off-script during his intro, he couldn't entirely predict the questions that would be posed to him (and, even if he did, will get to that next), he has a natural, quick-thinking ability. He felt at home at the podium. He maintained a semblance of control and authority. I came away feeling this guy was completely genuine and real, he can read and react quickly, and he 100% believes in what he says with positive conviction.

2) This guy is a preparation nut. Like, obsessed with having the answers before they're posed. Two of his answers (or, actually, part of them), were rehearsed based on his anticipation of them being asked. His reaction of the reaction of the members of the press corps. gives this away; he was pleased with their reaction to his answers. This guy must have spent a bunch of time predicting what would be asked, and drew up responses ahead of time based on those predictions. But he extrapolated on his responses (and pretty lengthily!) so this wasn't a bunch of B.S. to feed the press and his new owners what they might want to hear.

I wish I could give you guys the exact questions and answers off the top of my head, but I studied this last night and I didn't take notes.

This is a guy who doesn't like coming off as unprepared. I have a feeling he'll draw up plans, contingency plans and contingency plans for his contingency plans. I was thoroughly impressed by his bearing and how he presented himself. I can totally understand how Mara and DG were shellshocked after his interview.
Great first post  
Giantology : 1/10/2020 2:30 pm : link
Welcome aboard.
Nice read. Thank you!  
V.I.G. : 1/10/2020 2:30 pm : link
!
nice write up  
ron mexico : 1/10/2020 2:32 pm : link
thanks for taking the time. An a non expert on the field, I concur with your findings. The questions almost seemed teed up for how well he answered them all.
Now do Gettleman's post season presser!  
ron mexico : 1/10/2020 2:33 pm : link
haha
Presser  
GF1080 : 1/10/2020 2:34 pm : link
Then why does he think south jersey will be coming out to Giants games? He should know better since he is from philly.
Re: off-the cuff  
Gap92 : 1/10/2020 2:36 pm : link
that was the thing that stuck out to me as well. Once he was fielding questions and reacting on the fly, he was super sharp and came across just as well (if not better) than he did during his canned statement. Impressive.
Excellent  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 1/10/2020 2:36 pm : link
information. Thank you!
wonder what the actual percentage  
bc4life : 1/10/2020 2:37 pm : link
of using profiling in law enforcement is?

Thanks for the information!  
Lines of Scrimmage : 1/10/2020 2:38 pm : link
All the things I have seen written about him confirm he is a preparation nut and probably why Belichick and Saban loved him.

I would be curious to see a profile on McAdoo and Shurmur if you ever have a chance.
Concur  
Thegratefulhead : 1/10/2020 2:42 pm : link
His intellect is obvious. He thinks ahead. Most can't. I learned to play chess at 5 from watching my father and sister. They laughed when I asked to play. They were shocked I knew how to move all the pieces. After the first game I played, they never won another game. Judge was playing chess at the PC.
What I liked a lot and Eric touched on this earlier  
jvm52106 : 1/10/2020 2:43 pm : link
was that he managed to not talk about one single player on the team. That was on purpose and carried out well. He was not going to give the chance for his words to be used as a positive or negative for anyone. He said he needs to go through the evaluations and clearly that is not lip service.
I've never studied this  
UberAlias : 1/10/2020 2:44 pm : link
But I came away with the same impression. This guy isn't selling us what he thinks we want to hear, he believes what says, and has conviction. No one can predict if he'll be successful or not, but IMO, he's the real deal.
Great observations  
montanagiant : 1/10/2020 2:45 pm : link
I would love to see what you thought of Rhule's PC as well
Judge nailed his first press conference  
Angus : 1/10/2020 2:54 pm : link
Thank you for providing a knowledgeable confirmation of his performance. Step by step. We hope now for good assistants.
Thanks, good stuff  
Milton : 1/10/2020 2:56 pm : link
I finally got to watch the video after having read the transcript. It's filled with cliches and all the buzz words we hear from new head coaches (physical, tough, smart, don't beat yourself, disciplined, 60 minutes, etc.), but I agree that it comes off as genuine. Unlike with McAdoo it comes off as inclusive rather than combative. McAdoo has this feel like he was always on the defensive, like the media was his enemy. You don't get that from Judge. He is a likable guy, so was Shurmur. McAdoo and Coughlin not so much.

All that being said, it's not about his goals, but his ability to reach them. In that regard, we really have no clue. He's not bringing in an offensive or defensive system of his own. He has no record that shows his ability as a talent evaluator (whether we're talking coaches or players). I'm optimistic (as I usually am).

p.s.--But talk about young! He's 38, but looks more like 25. He probably still gets proofed at bars.
I think he may have a big problem with the media over the long haul.  
Spider56 : 1/10/2020 2:56 pm : link
He appears very focused and is clearly much smarter than all of the beat writers. It will be a major challenge to not lose patience with their dopey and often redundant questions. I can see him being just like BB in his interviews, which I personally find funny and entertaining. I doubt the media shares my view.
Attention to Detail  
Bavaro_the_Mafioso : 1/10/2020 3:01 pm : link
I happened to watch The Art of Coaching Wednesday and easily latched on to something after the presser. A common theme from Saban and BB was that details matter. The same could be said of Judge.

Judge mentioned attention to detail throughout his speech yesterday and it really resonated with me. This small but major factor is what's been missing from the last two regimes. Sloppy coaching, not prepared, out of position, poor technique.. etc.

He may never be a great, but if Judge learned one thing from the greats, I hope this is it. He seems extremely prepared and will leave no stone on turned in the name of preparation. Very refreshing.
Thanks ! what did you read into  
Koffman : 1/10/2020 3:11 pm : link
Judge saying O.K. multiple times throughout the PC after he said something?

I thought it was a good way for him to get someone to agree with what he was saying, kind of like nodding your head in an affirmative manner after saying something.
Uh, Milton,  
CT Charlie : 1/10/2020 3:20 pm : link
somehow I don't think he spends much time in bars.
RE: Thanks ! what did you read into  
FranknWeezer : 1/10/2020 3:20 pm : link
In comment 14772233 Koffman said:
Quote:
Judge saying O.K. multiple times throughout the PC after he said something?

I thought it was a good way for him to get someone to agree with what he was saying, kind of like nodding your head in an affirmative manner after saying something.


No more questions from you, alright.
RE: Now do Gettleman's post season presser!  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 1/10/2020 3:22 pm : link
In comment 14772142 ron mexico said:
Quote:
haha


I second this request.
RE: Presser  
Del Shofner : 1/10/2020 3:23 pm : link
In comment 14772143 GF1080 said:
Quote:
Then why does he think south jersey will be coming out to Giants games? He should know better since he is from philly.


And why did he exclude Connecticut? Does he have a deep-rooted belief that it is Patriots territory?
RE: Thanks ! what did you read into  
Spider56 : 1/10/2020 3:25 pm : link
In comment 14772233 Koffman said:
Quote:
Judge saying O.K. multiple times throughout the PC after he said something?

I thought it was a good way for him to get someone to agree with what he was saying, kind of like nodding your head in an affirmative manner after saying something.


Public speaking can be an acquired skill and even experienced folks can have slightly annoying words or tics that are repeated. Me thinks JJ will review his presser in detail and youíll see this stuff go away over time ... seriously, aside from super bowl weeks, how much did he talk to the press. If thatís his biggest weakness, Iím good.
RE: Uh, Milton,  
Milton : 1/10/2020 3:26 pm : link
In comment 14772259 CT Charlie said:
Quote:
somehow I don't think he spends much time in bars.
That's because they don't believe his driver's license!
I am McLovin! - ( New Window )
RE: RE: Thanks ! what did you read into  
Koffman : 1/10/2020 3:28 pm : link
In comment 14772260 FranknWeezer said:
Quote:
In comment 14772233 Koffman said:


Quote:


Judge saying O.K. multiple times throughout the PC after he said something?

I thought it was a good way for him to get someone to agree with what he was saying, kind of like nodding your head in an affirmative manner after saying something.



No more questions from you, alright.


Just one more question......When was the last time you removed the gerbils from your rectum to let them breathe?
Thank you for this  
Ceez2.0 : 1/10/2020 3:29 pm : link
!
Del  
Bill2 : 1/10/2020 3:32 pm : link
And he forgot the land of Del and Gidie

Then again, his goal was restoring things for us hard working everyday blue collar guys!!

Regarding the use of the word  
BuryMeInBlue : 1/10/2020 3:35 pm : link
I think I counted him saying it around five times, each time following a point he made. Not an extraordinary amount. Words like 'um,' 'like,' 'ok,' etc. are said often inadvertently spoken to jar the speaker's own memory or return them to point or, oftentimes, for absolutely no reason at all. 'Ok' can be used when seeking affirmation or to keep those listening engaged, and I think that somewhere between that and 'no reason at all' is where JJ's use of the word 'ok' comes into play.

Regarding Shurmur's and MacAdoo's PC's, it's been a while. I can have another look, but I recall coming away unmoved. Gettleman's last presser was a bit of a disaster, but I didn't dissect it that closely. I'd be happy to have another, clinical look at these and report back.
As someone who used toteach  
River Mike : 1/10/2020 3:52 pm : link
public speaking, a few of you had a pretty good understanding of the use of "ok". It is said as an interrogatory to end an issue being addressed and to establish that the listener understood and agreed or at least did not disagree with the statement. To a lesser extent, it is used as a connector, a pause to allow the mind to catch up with the mouth Ö utterances such as "Uh". And any speaker should avoid using any word repetitively, because it becomes a point of focus to the listeners who often begin to count to themselves how many times the speaker said it, in other words, a distraction.
Nice observations  
muhajir : 1/10/2020 3:59 pm : link
I recommend you read (or listen to the audio book which is even better) 'Talking to Strangers' by Malcolm Gladwell. Really valuable info for your line of work.
RE: As someone who used toteach  
bw in dc : 1/10/2020 4:01 pm : link
In comment 14772354 River Mike said:
Quote:
public speaking, a few of you had a pretty good understanding of the use of "ok". It is said as an interrogatory to end an issue being addressed and to establish that the listener understood and agreed or at least did not disagree with the statement.


I was under the impression using "okay" after a remark signaled some insecurity. That you weren't certain about what you said and needed confirmation by applying "okay"...
Good stuff.  
Klaatu : 1/10/2020 4:04 pm : link
I posted this yesterday:
Quote:
I wonder if he was briefed on who some of the beats were? I'm no expert on body language/facial expressions or anything, but there were a couple of times when certain beats introduced themselves that Judge seemed to know who they were and what kind of question he could expect.
Interesting stuff,  
darren in pdx : 1/10/2020 4:15 pm : link
thank you for the post. I haven't actually watched the video yet, but his words in the transcript alone come off well. Also, I saw in an article a Patriots player mentioning that Judge would have them watch tape of something a coach did ten years prior. I really liked reading that, that type of attention to detail is huge for winning games in today's NFL and the Giants have not felt like they were prepared for anything at all since Coughlin's prime years.
RE: Thanks for the information!  
BestFeature : 1/10/2020 4:15 pm : link
In comment 14772152 Lines of Scrimmage said:
Quote:
All the things I have seen written about him confirm he is a preparation nut and probably why Belichick and Saban loved him.

I would be curious to see a profile on McAdoo and Shurmur if you ever have a chance.


I wonder if their failure might create subconscious bias in any profile.
I concur with your 2nd point basically and said it before.  
BlueLou'sBack : 1/10/2020 4:21 pm : link
He prepared extraordinarily well. Don't know how valid your sub points are because I am not specifically trained in profiling. Perhaps I'll ask some Israeli military friends who are well versed in profiling to have a look at his PC.

But I'm curious about your use of the phrase "off the cuff" in point one. The definition I just saw of it said "without preparation".

He was well prepared for everything thrown at him... IMO.
RE: I concur with your 2nd point basically and said it before.  
BuryMeInBlue : 1/10/2020 4:30 pm : link
In comment 14772398 BlueLou'sBack said:
Quote:
He prepared extraordinarily well. Don't know how valid your sub points are because I am not specifically trained in profiling. Perhaps I'll ask some Israeli military friends who are well versed in profiling to have a look at his PC.

But I'm curious about your use of the phrase "off the cuff" in point one. The definition I just saw of it said "without preparation".

He was well prepared for everything thrown at him... IMO.


He was absolutely prepared for every question. But his rehearsed responses were short, usually 1-2 sentences long, and then he went into wider detail.

The yellow legal sheet you see him unfold at the beginning of the presser is the same paper he is pictured writing on during his plane ride into Teterboro. There's not much written on it. He memorized a LOT, but his mannerisms when extrapolating on his answers show that he is speaking from memory and experience.

For example (and I don't remember specifics, I'd have to actually take notes, which I didn't), you see him deliver a response. This is a rehearsed response, coming from memory. You then see a change in direction of his mannerism - a shift in facial expression, several repeated blinks, eye movement - his answer is then furthered from experience and his stored, long-term memory. The off-the-cuff response.

The fact that he was likely working with bullet points and memorized his initial responses to an assumed question set is impressive in itself.
An alternate perspective on assessing witnesses/profiling  
TonyinCentralNJ : 1/10/2020 4:42 pm : link
Excellent first post.

This is my first post, and like the OP, I have appreciated reading the thoughts of folks like SY'56 and others.

I am halfway through an audio book called "Talking to Strangers" by Malcolm Gladwell, who does a deep dive into how we evaluate strangers.

I think the poster might find it an interesting read (as have I), and others here might as well.

I have found it very thought provoking.

As for Judge, I was as impressed as most here, and am hoping for the best!

Happy New Year to all!
What I got from his PC was that he was extremely well thought out  
BestFeature : 1/10/2020 4:48 pm : link
He covered every base. He covered, the physical, mental, emotional, every base. There's something for the old school fan and new school fan to be excited about. I was blown away. His press conference was the polar opposite of DG's that always seem like he's winging everything.
RE: I concur with your 2nd point basically and said it before.  
Milton : 1/10/2020 4:58 pm : link
In comment 14772398 BlueLou'sBack said:
Quote:

But I'm curious about your use of the phrase "off the cuff" in point one. The definition I just saw of it said "without preparation". IMO.
I think he means unrehearsed, or "off book" to use theater/film jargon. And the more prepared you are, the more comfortable you are going off book.
RE: I think he may have a big problem with the media over the long haul.  
Photoguy : 1/10/2020 4:58 pm : link
In comment 14772202 Spider56 said:
Quote:
He appears very focused and is clearly much smarter than all of the beat writers. It will be a major challenge to not lose patience with their dopey and often redundant questions. I can see him being just like BB in his interviews, which I personally find funny and entertaining. I doubt the media shares my view.


I was gonna say, I want to see him handle the same question asked seven different ways.
RE: Thanks, good stuff  
BestFeature : 1/10/2020 5:20 pm : link
In comment 14772199 Milton said:
Quote:
I finally got to watch the video after having read the transcript. It's filled with cliches and all the buzz words we hear from new head coaches (physical, tough, smart, don't beat yourself, disciplined, 60 minutes, etc.), but I agree that it comes off as genuine. Unlike with McAdoo it comes off as inclusive rather than combative. McAdoo has this feel like he was always on the defensive, like the media was his enemy. You don't get that from Judge. He is a likable guy, so was Shurmur. McAdoo and Coughlin not so much.

All that being said, it's not about his goals, but his ability to reach them. In that regard, we really have no clue. He's not bringing in an offensive or defensive system of his own. He has no record that shows his ability as a talent evaluator (whether we're talking coaches or players). I'm optimistic (as I usually am).

p.s.--But talk about young! He's 38, but looks more like 25. He probably still gets proofed at bars.


I thought it was the least cliched PC of its kind I've ever seen. It wasn't just about being tough, it was also about empathy, teaching, treating players well, and hiring good people, not just good coaches.
Seems like a Coughlin clone  
SomeFan : 1/10/2020 5:27 pm : link
so I see at least two SBs in our future!
RE: RE: I concur with your 2nd point basically and said it before.  
ColHowPepper : 1/10/2020 5:29 pm : link
In comment 14772419 BuryMeInBlue said:
Quote:
...The yellow legal sheet you see him unfold at the beginning of the presser is the same paper he is pictured writing on during his plane ride into Teterboro. There's not much written on it. He memorized a LOT, but his mannerisms when extrapolating on his answers show that he is speaking from memory and experience.
Thank you.

I would aver that the 'not much written on it' [concur] and 'He memorized a LOT' are contradictory. I don't think he memorized, I think he's firing from his gut, and the bullet points are just signposts to ground him.

This goes back to your opening points: 1/preparedness/ 2/ off the cuff (that has to originate from a source/ and3/: maybe most importantly:

How often has Joe Judge gotten in front of a lectern in inarguably the most important point of his professional career and......faked it? I'd argue, never, and he didn't fake it.

Much authenticity there. I averred in the real time thread during the presser that the Giants have not had this force of personality since TC in his early years. He was made for this, age 38; BB saw it. So, while I might argue with some of your caveats, I concur with your conclusion!!
I think Donna Brazile  
stoneman : 1/10/2020 5:39 pm : link
emailed some of the questions before hand, thus the sharpe answers :) Will be interesting seeing him handle the NY press after his first loss :).
RE: I think Donna Brazile  
ColHowPepper : 1/10/2020 5:43 pm : link
In comment 14772526 stoneman said:
Quote:
emailed some of the questions before hand, thus the sharpe answers :) Will be interesting seeing him handle the NY press after his first loss :).
I heard James Dolan banned her from MSG
I concur with your 2nd point basically and said it before.  
BlueLou'sBack : 1/10/2020 5:51 pm : link
He prepared extraordinarily well. Don't know how valid your sub points are because I am not specifically trained in profiling. Perhaps I'll ask some Israeli military friends who are well versed in profiling to have a look at his PC.

But I'm curious about your use of the phrase "off the cuff" in point one. The definition I just saw of it said "without preparation".

IMO JUDGE was prepared, extremely well, for just about any question he'd likely receive in a 30 min ask session.

He was well prepared for everything thrown at him.
As we know, Judge coached the Pats' receivers  
GeofromNJ : 1/10/2020 7:39 pm : link
Granted there wasn't much in the way of talent, but the wideouts with the exception of Edelman seemed lost half the time. This gives me pause with respect to Judge's ability to teach and coach. Judge is impressive in a press conference, but I'm not ready to jump into the deep end of optimism just yet.
Thanks!  
Jay in Toronto : 1/10/2020 8:07 pm : link
When you have the time, I'd love to read psychological profiles of some of the posters on BBI
Incisive Read  
Percy : 1/10/2020 8:10 pm : link
Thanks. Come around more often!
Awesome post  
AcesUp : 1/10/2020 10:57 pm : link
Thank you!
Back to the Corner