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Why I think Jason Garrett may be the best choice to be OC

Anakim : 1/11/2020 12:53 am
It's obviously necessary for Judge to get an experienced as he navigates his first voyage into the head coaching waters. He's never been a head coach anywhere nor has he ever controlled an offensive or defensive unit. Thus, I think both the OC and DC should have some head coaching experience (which would disqualify someone like Joe Brady). That leaves a few options: Norv Turner, Jason Garrett, Scott Linehan, Ken Whisenhunt, Hue Jackson, Freddie Kitchens, Todd Haley, Jim Caldwell, Jay Gruden, to name a few

I would say the most important quality that our new OC must have is his ability to develop our franchise QB, Daniel Jones. You're not going to win in this league without quality QB play. DJ had a great year and needs to build off of that, which is why an offensive system to help him develop into a stellar QB is imperative for the future success of the team. Joe Judge never developed a QB, so whomever he picks as OC will be tasked with possibly the most important aspect of the job: developing Daniel Jones.

So onto the potential coordinators...

First off, it's very possible that Norv Turner may not want to coach in the same division as his son. His son, Scott was just hired as the OC for the Washington franchise. Purely speculation on my part, but I don't see it happening.

Most of the aforementioned guys just flamed out and were fired as OCs, namely Whisenhunt, Linehan, Jackson, and Haley. I'm not crazy about going after a retread.

One thing that slightly disturbs me about Jay Gruden was his handling of Dwayne Haskins Jr. Now yes, I've heard the rumors that Haskins was lazy and didn't really put in the work to understand the playbook and that whole "selfie during the game" thing was fucking unprofessional, but I find Gruden's handling of the Haskins situation a bit disturbing. I also heard that Gruden preferred DJ to Haskins and that Haskins was strictly a Dan Snyder pick, but regardless, you would think Gruden would do everything in his power to try to develop Haskins. Well, he didn't and you can blame that on either Gruden or Haskins, but there were strong indications that Haskins was completely unprepared at all when he was put in the game against us.

In fact, the whole handling of that situation was odd. You have a guy who you invested a first round pick in and who you hope to be your franchise QB and you don't prepare him for game action? And then basically say that you don't have a plan at QB afterwards? What does that say about you as a coach that you're not preparing the future QB of your team? Again, maybe it was Haskins and his immaturity, but that situation REALLY rubbed me the wrong way. You would think Gruden would do anything and everything in his power to help Haskins along because obviously, their fates are intertwined.

Where things get a little ambiguous is that Gruden also helped develop Andy Dalton and Kirk Cousins. Dalton has had a nice career and Cousins has had his moments, but neither turned into franchise QBs. Granted that they were expected to be, but I don't know. Maybe Gruden did optimize their talent. Maybe Haskins was just an outlier.

And then you have Kitchens, who oversaw a HUGE step back from Baker Mayfield. Baker did not have a good this year. In fact, he regressed. Kitchens did oversee an amazing rookie year from Mayfield, but I can't help but be disturbed at how this year has played out for Baker. And this was with a receiving corp of OBJ, Jarvis Landry, and David Njoku. I don't know. I think I'd be okay with Kitchens as a positional coach, but as the playcaller/OC, not really crazy about that.

But then I turn to Garrett and I see what he did with Tony Romo and Dak Prescott. Romo turned into a fantastic QB. Say what you want about him and his inability to win big games, but he was extremely prolific throughout his career and he spent most of his career coached by Garrett. Meanwhile. Dak was a fourth round pick who developed into a franchise QB. He's not without his warts, but I don't think anyone can dispute that he's a high quality starter in the NFL. Now, we don't know how much of a hand Garrett had in developing those two guys, but Romo was only his second season as a starter when Garrett arrived in Dallas in 2007, and Dak has been with Garrett his entire career.


So all in all, I think I'd be most comfortable with Garrett. Maybe Gruden, but Gruden seems like the safer, surer bet.
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Anakim mentioned Ken Whisenhunt  
cosmicj : 1/11/2020 9:16 am : link
To me, he’s an obvious short lister. He was fired by the Chargers mid season but he was there for three seasons so he didn’t flame out. He is a two time HC and has had a long career in the NFL and could really add a steady hand to the team.
RE: I can’t imagine that Garrett would accept an OC position  
cosmicj : 1/11/2020 9:18 am : link
In comment 14772984 cosmicj said:
Quote:


I am as interested in who is named offensive coordinator. Judge really needs to nail that choice.
ugh. I am as interested in who is named offensive line coach. Judge really needs to nail that choice.
RE: Anakim mentioned Ken Whisenhunt  
Mike in NY : 1/11/2020 9:21 am : link
In comment 14772987 cosmicj said:
Quote:
To me, he’s an obvious short lister. He was fired by the Chargers mid season but he was there for three seasons so he didn’t flame out. He is a two time HC and has had a long career in the NFL and could really add a steady hand to the team.


Whisenhunt was fired because the O was not scoring points. Freddie Kitchens did coach for him so there is that connection, but I am concerned that he never really worked well with young QB’s.
Whisenhunt has a very good long term record running top 10  
cosmicj : 1/11/2020 9:27 am : link
Offenses with several teams. He’s an obvious candidate and would be a good OC hire as long as Judge sees a fit. There’s no doubt Whisenhunt is an accomplished pro. He’s low on our Giants fans radar because he has coached on the west coast and in the AFC most of his career.
Is it a consideration that Garrett  
j_rud : 1/11/2020 9:27 am : link
would likely be short term, and possibly very short term? He's a successful head coach, theres a very real chance he moves on after a one year stint where he washes his reputation of his underperforming Cowboy teams.

And while thats just part of the game and a price of being successful in the NFL you could be seeing Jones learning his 3rd offense in 3 years. I think Garrett would be a fine choice, of the known-commodities discussed hed be my preferred choice. But youre doing your young QB (and the rest of your offense) a disservice if you dont at least question the possible impact to continuity.

I’d be all in on Garrett  
Bill L : 1/11/2020 9:32 am : link
He’s smart, comes from a successful program even if it never quite met expectations, a former QB (good for Jones), a former Giant. Also, the team he’s managed previously is very comparable to the Giants offense, sans the great OL. But, centered around a workhorse, outstanding RB with a young, decent throwing QB with mobility when necessary, a primarily pass-catching TE, solid WRs without anyone outstanding (until the last year or two since Cooper came).

What he’s done and who he is, fits us to a tee.
RE: Anakim - I am not sure who you are supporting here. You said you had a  
Anakim : 1/11/2020 9:34 am : link
In comment 14772852 Ivan15 said:
Quote:
problem with how Gruden handled his QB, then you talk about fewer red flags with Gruden, then you say Gruden is the safer bet,


Typo. I meant Garrett. It was late. Haha
After a full decade of being HC for maybe the NFL’s premier  
cosmicj : 1/11/2020 9:34 am : link
Franchise, why would Garrett accept an OC position with the league’s worst team?

Seriously, explain this to me.
I would like to see  
Spyder : 1/11/2020 9:38 am : link
at least one ex head coach on the staff and if Judge decides on Garrett that is fine with me. He knows the NFC East well and I think he would do great with Jones. (also was a backup for Kerry Collins, so once a Giant....)

Pairing him with Marvin Lewis as DC sounds pretty good. I do like Richard too, love the idea of him working with the "puppy" secondary.

But Joe was an out of the box solution, I have a feeling his OC and DC may come out of the box also...
RE: Excellent points.  
Anakim : 1/11/2020 9:44 am : link
In comment 14772908 Big Blue '56 said:
Quote:
Norv has always been my guy, yet for one reason or the other, we’ve never pulled the trigger.

Garrett or Gruden would be fine with me.

Another steadying name in the mix could be Bill Callahan



Welcome back!!! Where've you been?
RE: Anak et al,  
Anakim : 1/11/2020 9:45 am : link
In comment 14772942 Big Blue '56 said:
Quote:
are there talented OCs in the college ranks that you believe JJ should or could consider, iyo?


The one guy that keeps getting mentioned is Joe Brady of LSU, who developed Joe Burrow from a mid-rounder to the soon-to-be #1 overall pick. Burrow had arguably the greatest season from a QB in college football history.
Garrett has earned maybe $50mm as head coach the last decade  
cosmicj : 1/11/2020 9:47 am : link
(Probably more). The moment a big college program in Texas or Oklahoma has an HC vacancy, he’d automatically be the leading candidate for that opening. He can earn $10mm annually there, compete for national championships and likely be very good at that job.

Why in Christ’s sake would he accept an OC position with a lowly franchise, working with a younger, newbie coach? Would Garrett’s agent even let him accept this OC position?
One other Belichick tree coach to mention here is Ferentz  
cosmicj : 1/11/2020 9:48 am : link
But he may be aging out.
RE: After a full decade of being HC for maybe the NFL’s premier  
Anakim : 1/11/2020 9:49 am : link
In comment 14773000 cosmicj said:
Quote:
Franchise, why would Garrett accept an OC position with the league’s worst team?

Seriously, explain this to me.


You think sitting out the year would do him any good? Because all the HC positions (with the exception of the Browns) will be filled.
Garrett goes pass happy & abandons the run too often...  
GloryDayz : 1/11/2020 9:50 am : link
That’s my biggest knock on him.

Other than that, I think he’ll be a good choice, a decent guy, who won’t do anything to undermine the team or the HC
RE: RE: I hope the DC...  
Saquads26 : 1/11/2020 9:51 am : link
In comment 14772976 Jimmy Googs said:
Quote:
In comment 14772969 Tark10 said:


Quote:


Whoever he is, uses a 4-3 scheme.



If a DC candidate can come up with a non-LB scheme then he is our guy...


Yep versatility is key like Judge said. We won’t force one scheme
RE: I hope the DC...  
Klaatu : 1/11/2020 9:55 am : link
In comment 14772969 Tark10 said:
Quote:
Whoever he is, uses a 4-3 scheme.


Any particular reason(s) why?

Not a call-out. Personally, I have no preference between the 4-3 and the 3-4.
Anakim  
cosmicj : 1/11/2020 9:56 am : link
Yes, sitting out a year will do him good professionally and personally.
RE: RE: Excellent points.  
Big Blue '56 : 1/11/2020 9:58 am : link
In comment 14773010 Anakim said:
Quote:
In comment 14772908 Big Blue '56 said:


Quote:


Norv has always been my guy, yet for one reason or the other, we’ve never pulled the trigger.

Garrett or Gruden would be fine with me.

Another steadying name in the mix could be Bill Callahan




Welcome back!!! Where've you been?


As mentioned elsewhere, I needed to take a break from all the anger on here. All’s good..😎
I’m surprised there isn’t...  
bw in dc : 1/11/2020 10:00 am : link
more interest on this board for Jim Caldwell.

Looked up Dallas Cowboy offensive stats  
bc4life : 1/11/2020 10:03 am : link
last couple of years - was surprised at the inconsistency
For example - ranking re: end of season points scored

2019 6th
2018 22nd
2017 14th
2016 5th
2015 30th
2014 6th
2013 5th

For the record, I don't know who they should hire
If we are just going to select random names  
Mike in NY : 1/11/2020 10:04 am : link
How about current Jets RB Coach Jim Bob Cooter!
RE: I’m surprised there isn’t...  
Big Blue '56 : 1/11/2020 10:09 am : link
In comment 14773027 bw in dc said:
Quote:
more interest on this board for Jim Caldwell.


Curious why you like him. In Indy, there was Peyton, ‘Nuff said. Though he had some success in Detroit, he had Stafford throwing to Johnson. What’s the appeal for you?
Let Judge Be Judge,  
clatterbuck : 1/11/2020 10:15 am : link
I get the urge to surround him with coordinators and assistants from a pool of usual suspects with names we all recognize. But we hired him because of his plan, his leadership, his "process." Let him implement it with the coaches he wants and trusts. If he wants Garrett or Gruden, etc, fine. But I think it would be a mistake for media, fans, and obviously, the Giants organization to impose group-think conventional wisdom on him.
RE: Anakim  
Anakim : 1/11/2020 10:18 am : link
In comment 14773023 cosmicj said:
Quote:
Yes, sitting out a year will do him good professionally and personally.


I don't know about that, but it did work for McCarthy
Go out and get a young OC and a young DC  
Earl the goat : 1/11/2020 10:22 am : link
And let the 3 develop over time
Giants aren’t winning anything in next two years so let staff develop properly instead of bringing in old guys like Wade Phillips or Norv Turner who have both jumped around
Joe Brady and Kris Richard would be ideal choices

But I’m a huge Bill Callahan fan for OL Coach
One thing about Caldwell  
bc4life : 1/11/2020 10:24 am : link
all other things equal, he's had two shots at HC. So I suspect, he will probably be the OC for the duration. If you have a new HC, especially a young one, probably not helpful to bring on a lot of hot young coordinator prospects and have them succeed, then get promoted off your staff
Re Caldwell, he took a leave of absence for health reasons last July.  
cosmicj : 1/11/2020 10:27 am : link
He is now a consultant for the Dolphins. I don’t think he can take the job for age and medical reasons.
health ok but age -  
bc4life : 1/11/2020 10:30 am : link
he's only 64
some rumors that  
bc4life : 1/11/2020 10:33 am : link
Eagles are looking at Caldwell for OC
Ok, maybe he is returning to coaching  
cosmicj : 1/11/2020 10:36 am : link
.
RE: RE: ....  
Adirondack GMen : 1/11/2020 10:52 am : link
In comment 14772974 upnyg said:
Quote:
In comment 14772856 BleedBlue said:


Quote:


been saying it everywhere we speak about coaches

+1!!!

HC-Judge
OC-Gruden
DC-Phillips, would also be okay with Richard(a like his DB experience and we have a ton of young ones)
OL-Callahan


That would be a good staff.
I’d be thrilled with Garrett as OC here  
djm : 1/11/2020 11:01 am : link
Best of both worlds. Get it done.
RE: Excellent points.  
djm : 1/11/2020 11:04 am : link
In comment 14772908 Big Blue '56 said:
Quote:
Norv has always been my guy, yet for one reason or the other, we’ve never pulled the trigger.

Garrett or Gruden would be fine with me.

Another steadying name in the mix could be Bill Callahan


Now I know the giants are on the right track. Welcome back fiddy.

One thing we can assume  
TMS : 1/11/2020 11:30 am : link
is that this new HC will do his homework during this period, before the draft, to evaluate all these candidates relative to how they will fit our teams future plans on both offense and defense. That my first impression of him. Wish him luck.
RE: Let Judge Be Judge,  
twostepgiants : 1/11/2020 12:40 pm : link
In comment 14773047 clatterbuck said:
Quote:
I get the urge to surround him with coordinators and assistants from a pool of usual suspects with names we all recognize. But we hired him because of his plan, his leadership, his "process." Let him implement it with the coaches he wants and trusts. If he wants Garrett or Gruden, etc, fine. But I think it would be a mistake for media, fans, and obviously, the Giants organization to impose group-think conventional wisdom on him.



Great post
I can't see Garrett taking the OC job here for the reasons  
Del Shofner : 1/11/2020 2:05 pm : link
cosmicj says. Sitting out a year won't hurt him at all in terms of getting another HC job down the road.
RE: RE: I’m surprised there isn’t...  
bw in dc : 1/11/2020 2:14 pm : link
In comment 14773040 Big Blue '56 said:
Quote:
In comment 14773027 bw in dc said:


Quote:


more interest on this board for Jim Caldwell.




Curious why you like him. In Indy, there was Peyton, ‘Nuff said. Though he had some success in Detroit, he had Stafford throwing to Johnson. What’s the appeal for you?


I like his experience and steadiness. And I think that would make him a good sounding board for Judge.

Plus, he could be an excellent influence on Jones. Here is what Peyton said about him - fwiw...

Quote:
"Jim Caldwell has meant a great deal to me in my career. I felt like once he got to Indianapolis and became my quarterbacks coach, that my game really improved. It took a step up, and I thought Jim had a great deal to do with that.

"He and I had a set routine that we tried to perform every day in the meeting room, on the practice field, in different drills. And from 2003 to 2008, when he was the quarterbacks coach, I was playing at a high level."
RE: RE: RE: I’m surprised there isn’t...  
Big Blue '56 : 1/11/2020 2:15 pm : link
In comment 14773298 bw in dc said:
Quote:
In comment 14773040 Big Blue '56 said:


Quote:


In comment 14773027 bw in dc said:


Quote:


more interest on this board for Jim Caldwell.




Curious why you like him. In Indy, there was Peyton, ‘Nuff said. Though he had some success in Detroit, he had Stafford throwing to Johnson. What’s the appeal for you?



I like his experience and steadiness. And I think that would make him a good sounding board for Judge.

Plus, he could be an excellent influence on Jones. Here is what Peyton said about him - fwiw...



Quote:


"Jim Caldwell has meant a great deal to me in my career. I felt like once he got to Indianapolis and became my quarterbacks coach, that my game really improved. It took a step up, and I thought Jim had a great deal to do with that.

"He and I had a set routine that we tried to perform every day in the meeting room, on the practice field, in different drills. And from 2003 to 2008, when he was the quarterbacks coach, I was playing at a high level."



Gotcha
Garrett has not impressed me...  
EricJ : 1/11/2020 2:40 pm : link
he has Zeke, Cooper, a solid OL, and a QB who can run if needed.

Their offense is not lighting the world on fire.
You can never  
XBRONX : 1/11/2020 2:48 pm : link
wipe the stank of Jerry Jones off.
RE: Garrett has not impressed me...  
Jimmy Googs : 1/11/2020 2:48 pm : link
In comment 14773320 EricJ said:
Quote:
he has Zeke, Cooper, a solid OL, and a QB who can run if needed.

Their offense is not lighting the world on fire.


You mean #1 in the NFL in yards per game, and a healthy margin ahead of #2 Baltimore isn't good?

slackers...

Googs  
XBRONX : 1/11/2020 2:53 pm : link
And don't forget sixth in points. We should be that bad.
Think Garrett is a management favorite and has been for a while.  
TMS : 1/14/2020 12:36 pm : link
HC was too big a reach but OC is his strength with a strong HC who has Judges philosophy. Hope they get him.
My concern with Gruden  
Now Mike in MD : 1/14/2020 12:56 pm : link
is that he seemed to have no interest running the ball in DC. Now they didn't have any RBs like Saquan, but he just doesn't seem to scheme the run game well. There were a lot of complaints by guys like Cooley down here about his run scheme.
Todd Monken interests me a bit  
Anakim : 1/14/2020 2:25 pm : link
He did very well in Tampa Bay


And shit, I forgot about Mike McCoy in my retread section.
"Most of the aforementioned guys just flamed out and were fired as OCs, namely Whisenhunt, Linehan, Jackson, MCCOY and Haley. I'm not crazy about going after a retread.
Think Garrett would be a great addition if  
TMS : 1/14/2020 5:50 pm : link
he and Judge can sit down and get on the same page.
RE: Think Garrett would be a great addition if  
Anakim : 1/15/2020 1:27 pm : link
In comment 14779256 TMS said:
Quote:
he and Judge can sit down and get on the same page.


I guess we'll find out soon enough :)
toot toot  
Brown Recluse : 1/15/2020 1:30 pm : link
.
RE: toot toot  
Big Blue '56 : 1/15/2020 1:35 pm : link
In comment 14780501 Brown Recluse said:
Quote:
.


Nah, Anak’s been rocking it for years..
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