It's obviously necessary for Judge to get an experienced as he navigates his first voyage into the head coaching waters. He's never been a head coach anywhere nor has he ever controlled an offensive or defensive unit. Thus, I think both the OC and DC should have some head coaching experience (which would disqualify someone like Joe Brady). That leaves a few options: Norv Turner, Jason Garrett, Scott Linehan, Ken Whisenhunt, Hue Jackson, Freddie Kitchens, Todd Haley, Jim Caldwell, Jay Gruden, to name a few
I would say the most important quality that our new OC must have is his ability to develop our franchise QB, Daniel Jones. You're not going to win in this league without quality QB play. DJ had a great year and needs to build off of that, which is why an offensive system to help him develop into a stellar QB is imperative for the future success of the team. Joe Judge never developed a QB, so whomever he picks as OC will be tasked with possibly the most important aspect of the job: developing Daniel Jones.
So onto the potential coordinators...
First off, it's very possible that Norv Turner may not want to coach in the same division as his son. His son, Scott was just hired as the OC for the Washington franchise. Purely speculation on my part, but I don't see it happening.
Most of the aforementioned guys just flamed out and were fired as OCs, namely Whisenhunt, Linehan, Jackson, and Haley. I'm not crazy about going after a retread.
One thing that slightly disturbs me about Jay Gruden was his handling of Dwayne Haskins Jr. Now yes, I've heard the rumors that Haskins was lazy and didn't really put in the work to understand the playbook and that whole "selfie during the game" thing was fucking unprofessional, but I find Gruden's handling of the Haskins situation a bit disturbing. I also heard that Gruden preferred DJ to Haskins and that Haskins was strictly a Dan Snyder pick, but regardless, you would think Gruden would do everything in his power to try to develop Haskins. Well, he didn't and you can blame that on either Gruden or Haskins, but there were strong indications that Haskins was completely unprepared at all when he was put in the game against us.
In fact, the whole handling of that situation was odd. You have a guy who you invested a first round pick in and who you hope to be your franchise QB and you don't prepare him for game action? And then basically say that you don't have a plan at QB afterwards? What does that say about you as a coach that you're not preparing the future QB of your team? Again, maybe it was Haskins and his immaturity, but that situation REALLY rubbed me the wrong way. You would think Gruden would do anything and everything in his power to help Haskins along because obviously, their fates are intertwined.
Where things get a little ambiguous is that Gruden also helped develop Andy Dalton and Kirk Cousins. Dalton has had a nice career and Cousins has had his moments, but neither turned into franchise QBs. Granted that they were expected to be, but I don't know. Maybe Gruden did optimize their talent. Maybe Haskins was just an outlier.
And then you have Kitchens, who oversaw a HUGE step back from Baker Mayfield. Baker did not have a good this year. In fact, he regressed. Kitchens did oversee an amazing rookie year from Mayfield, but I can't help but be disturbed at how this year has played out for Baker. And this was with a receiving corp of OBJ, Jarvis Landry, and David Njoku. I don't know. I think I'd be okay with Kitchens as a positional coach, but as the playcaller/OC, not really crazy about that.
But then I turn to Garrett and I see what he did with Tony Romo and Dak Prescott. Romo turned into a fantastic QB. Say what you want about him and his inability to win big games, but he was extremely prolific throughout his career and he spent most of his career coached by Garrett. Meanwhile. Dak was a fourth round pick who developed into a franchise QB. He's not without his warts, but I don't think anyone can dispute that he's a high quality starter in the NFL. Now, we don't know how much of a hand Garrett had in developing those two guys, but Romo was only his second season as a starter when Garrett arrived in Dallas in 2007, and Dak has been with Garrett his entire career.
So all in all, I think I'd be most comfortable with Garrett. Maybe Gruden, but Gruden seems like the safer, surer bet.
Reasonable POV, but I wonder if either will want the job, especially Garrett after the Giants first wanted him to interview for the HC job and them dropped him like a hot potato in favor of JJ.
Banks commented on this on WFAN today and surmised that he didn't think Garrett would be a likely candidate now...
I agree with your criteria btw. Need NFL experience. So I would also throw Jim Caldwell into the mix. Eagles are after him, so we should get in that market, too. Nice steady hand with a quality resume on this side of the ball.
HC-Judge
OC-Gruden
DC-Phillips, would also be okay with Richard(a like his DB experience and we have a ton of young ones)
OL-Callahan
Dak quietly had a ~5,000 yard passing season and was putting up massive numbers especially early in the season, and he’s quietly been one of the more prolific QBs in the league the last 4 years. He sometimes just doesn’t look good but hey he was a 4th round pick. The fact Garrett got so many yards and points out of Romo and Dak is really saying something IMO.
Garrett is a very intelligent guy (Princeton man) and I personally think he’s a good guy, I just always thought of him being better as an OC, I didn’t think his personality was that of a championship NFL HC.
The fact that he’s had so many years of HC experience will help Judge, and at least in hiring Garrett we know he we have a competent offensive mind and play caller. My biggest fear in hiring Judge is that we are entirely dependent on which OC and DC we hire. Being a great motivator, communicator, and leader are all fantastic qualities, but none of those things are actual material substance. You can’t just will your way to saying “I’m gonna analyze every player and figure out their strengths and weaknesses and then put them in a position to succeed and BOOM we have a great offense ”... No, you need tried and true strategies and tactics, there is no magic formula you can figure out without the relevant experience.
Garrett is a bright and experienced offensive mind and thats what I’m looking for: a guy who has 1) seen it all and knows how to read and react AS A coordinator and play caller and 2) smart enough to not be out coached and out adjusted (like how Pederson ate Shurmur’s lunch every single 2nd half we played the Eagles). Speaking of which I like that he’s an NFCE guy and therefore already somewhat knows the other teams’ rosters (especially the Cowboys’, duh) and at least has experience coaching against Pederson and the Eagles, which can help Judge’s transition into this job as well.
I wonder if getting Garrett would at all help out chances of getting Wade Phillips as DC and/or Richard as DC or “passing game coordinator” (his job last year in Dallas).
It’s kind of funny to imagine us having all guys who have coached for Dallas, I kind of like the idea honestly. I could only imagine adding Judge as the “leader of men” and subtracting Jerruh and all the narcissistic distracting nonsense he brings could possibly result in success. That would be one sweet super bowl victory if it ever came to fruition, essentially proving to Jerry Jones he was the problem lol.
Add one JJ subtract another JJ and voila suddenly championships are being won (we just have to get the roster up to par with Dallas’s first though).
Marvin Lewis - I know he may want to go back to being a head coach but he was a fantastic DC and he has already had a year off. Pairing him with Richard would be a great move.
I would love to see a proven OL coach. I like Pepper Johnson for DL or LB. Keep Tyke and Lunda for the WR and LBs.
Maybe Kitchens for the RBs?
The thing is he's always just been a DL coach. My idea would be to make him the DC, and bring in Richard as "asst. DC", where Richard assists him as the "passing game coordinator" (same job as he had last year in Dallas) since that is the piece of the D Kocurek isn't as much of an expert in.
The point is that Kocurek comes because he's getting a promotion (to DC), while Richard is unlikely to be employed (since he was under Garrett) so he'd be more inclined to take a "2nd in command" type of position. That said, I would still think the title of "Asst. DC" would technically be a step up from just "DB coach".
49ers' revamped D-line led by coach Kris Kocurek's incredible intensity - ( New Window )
Garrett or Gruden would be fine with me.
Another steadying name in the mix could be Bill Callahan
Garrett or Gruden would be fine with me.
Another steadying name in the mix could be Bill Callahan
Welcome back, BB! Missed seeing you post. Hope all is well.
I like the idea of an experienced OC and DC for a young coach. While each has had success, it sounds like Judge is going to prioritize flexibility and teaching over scheme. The question will be which of these guys are very scheme flexible? Outsiders perspective, I see Garrett as the best teacher in the list above, and good with QBs. Also like Caldwell a lot.
Would love to see Marvin Lewis as DC. Again, seems to me to be someone well equipped to adjust scheme and get the most out of the parts he has.
For me I don’t have a favorite. Often when we do this, like The Rhule thing, when it doesn’t play out we get disappointed and convinced the Giants screwed up.
But to respect your post, if I had a choice from your list it would be Garrett.
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Norv has always been my guy, yet for one reason or the other, we’ve never pulled the trigger.
Garrett or Gruden would be fine with me.
Another steadying name in the mix could be Bill Callahan
Welcome back, BB! Missed seeing you post. Hope all is well.
I like the idea of an experienced OC and DC for a young coach. While each has had success, it sounds like Judge is going to prioritize flexibility and teaching over scheme. The question will be which of these guys are very scheme flexible? Outsiders perspective, I see Garrett as the best teacher in the list above, and good with QBs. Also like Caldwell a lot.
Would love to see Marvin Lewis as DC. Again, seems to me to be someone well equipped to adjust scheme and get the most out of the parts he has.
Thanks Mike. I needed a break from all the anger on here..😎
I'd be happy with him or Garrett as OC.
HC-Judge
OC-Gruden
DC-Phillips, would also be okay with Richard(a like his DB experience and we have a ton of young ones)
OL-Callahan
That would be a good staff.
If a DC candidate can come up with a non-LB scheme then he is our guy...
Shane Waldron, passing game coordinator for the Rams, is another possibility. His name has come up repeatedly.
I know two guys don’t have HC experience but that high level background will be difficult to find.
I am as interested in who is named offensive coordinator. Judge really needs to nail that choice.
1. Garrett won nothing in 10 years
2. Garrett for many years has had the BEST OL in football, and still couldn’t dominate on offense
3. Garrett was forced to give up his OC duties this year because his offenses were so bland and predictable
4. Every Diehard Cowboy fan I know, and I know plenty, are not fans of Garrett as either an OC or HC and are very happy he is gone
5.Dallas did have a much better year passing the ball OVERALL this year but look who was OC. But even then, they always lost to the big boys and open beat up on the little guys
6. Don’t give credit to Garrett for Dak because first off, Dak hasn’t won anything in 4 years...and that is with the best OL and RB in the past 4 years.
SAY NO TO GARRETT
I am as interested in who is named offensive coordinator. Judge really needs to nail that choice.
Whisenhunt was fired because the O was not scoring points. Freddie Kitchens did coach for him so there is that connection, but I am concerned that he never really worked well with young QB’s.
And while thats just part of the game and a price of being successful in the NFL you could be seeing Jones learning his 3rd offense in 3 years. I think Garrett would be a fine choice, of the known-commodities discussed hed be my preferred choice. But youre doing your young QB (and the rest of your offense) a disservice if you dont at least question the possible impact to continuity.
What he’s done and who he is, fits us to a tee.
Typo. I meant Garrett. It was late. Haha
Seriously, explain this to me.
Pairing him with Marvin Lewis as DC sounds pretty good. I do like Richard too, love the idea of him working with the "puppy" secondary.
But Joe was an out of the box solution, I have a feeling his OC and DC may come out of the box also...
Garrett or Gruden would be fine with me.
Another steadying name in the mix could be Bill Callahan
Welcome back!!! Where've you been?
The one guy that keeps getting mentioned is Joe Brady of LSU, who developed Joe Burrow from a mid-rounder to the soon-to-be #1 overall pick. Burrow had arguably the greatest season from a QB in college football history.
Why in Christ’s sake would he accept an OC position with a lowly franchise, working with a younger, newbie coach? Would Garrett’s agent even let him accept this OC position?
Seriously, explain this to me.
You think sitting out the year would do him any good? Because all the HC positions (with the exception of the Browns) will be filled.
Other than that, I think he’ll be a good choice, a decent guy, who won’t do anything to undermine the team or the HC
Quote:
Whoever he is, uses a 4-3 scheme.
If a DC candidate can come up with a non-LB scheme then he is our guy...
Yep versatility is key like Judge said. We won’t force one scheme
Any particular reason(s) why?
Not a call-out. Personally, I have no preference between the 4-3 and the 3-4.
Quote:
Norv has always been my guy, yet for one reason or the other, we’ve never pulled the trigger.
Garrett or Gruden would be fine with me.
Another steadying name in the mix could be Bill Callahan
Welcome back!!! Where've you been?
As mentioned elsewhere, I needed to take a break from all the anger on here. All’s good..😎
For example - ranking re: end of season points scored
2019 6th
2018 22nd
2017 14th
2016 5th
2015 30th
2014 6th
2013 5th
For the record, I don't know who they should hire
Curious why you like him. In Indy, there was Peyton, ‘Nuff said. Though he had some success in Detroit, he had Stafford throwing to Johnson. What’s the appeal for you?
I don't know about that, but it did work for McCarthy
Giants aren’t winning anything in next two years so let staff develop properly instead of bringing in old guys like Wade Phillips or Norv Turner who have both jumped around
Joe Brady and Kris Richard would be ideal choices
But I’m a huge Bill Callahan fan for OL Coach
Quote:
been saying it everywhere we speak about coaches
+1!!!
HC-Judge
OC-Gruden
DC-Phillips, would also be okay with Richard(a like his DB experience and we have a ton of young ones)
OL-Callahan
That would be a good staff.
Garrett or Gruden would be fine with me.
Another steadying name in the mix could be Bill Callahan
Now I know the giants are on the right track. Welcome back fiddy.
Great post
Quote:
more interest on this board for Jim Caldwell.
Curious why you like him. In Indy, there was Peyton, ‘Nuff said. Though he had some success in Detroit, he had Stafford throwing to Johnson. What’s the appeal for you?
I like his experience and steadiness. And I think that would make him a good sounding board for Judge.
Plus, he could be an excellent influence on Jones. Here is what Peyton said about him - fwiw...
"He and I had a set routine that we tried to perform every day in the meeting room, on the practice field, in different drills. And from 2003 to 2008, when he was the quarterbacks coach, I was playing at a high level."
Quote:
In comment 14773027 bw in dc said:
Quote:
more interest on this board for Jim Caldwell.
Curious why you like him. In Indy, there was Peyton, ‘Nuff said. Though he had some success in Detroit, he had Stafford throwing to Johnson. What’s the appeal for you?
I like his experience and steadiness. And I think that would make him a good sounding board for Judge.
Plus, he could be an excellent influence on Jones. Here is what Peyton said about him - fwiw...
Quote:
"Jim Caldwell has meant a great deal to me in my career. I felt like once he got to Indianapolis and became my quarterbacks coach, that my game really improved. It took a step up, and I thought Jim had a great deal to do with that.
"He and I had a set routine that we tried to perform every day in the meeting room, on the practice field, in different drills. And from 2003 to 2008, when he was the quarterbacks coach, I was playing at a high level."
Gotcha
Their offense is not lighting the world on fire.
Their offense is not lighting the world on fire.
You mean #1 in the NFL in yards per game, and a healthy margin ahead of #2 Baltimore isn't good?
slackers...
And shit, I forgot about Mike McCoy in my retread section.
"Most of the aforementioned guys just flamed out and were fired as OCs, namely Whisenhunt, Linehan, Jackson, MCCOY and Haley. I'm not crazy about going after a retread.
I guess we'll find out soon enough :)
Nah, Anak’s been rocking it for years..