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Why did Gettleman cite Total Yards Stat?

Essex : 1/11/2020 10:12 am
As some know, i am not anti-Gettleman; in fact, I was on the record as saying i would like him to stay, but with structural support that would get him more in line with 21st century football. With that said, I canít believe he is quoting that stat about the top 4 running teams in total yards making the playoffs and the top 4 passing teams in total yards did not. Doesnít he realize that total yards is a meaningless stat and that the real measuring stick is offensive efficiency and then when you break it down (besides the ravens) the playoff teams tend to be good at passing. I still like Gettleman and want him to succeed badly, love the hiring of Judge; but I just donít think we are going to take a quantum leap in terms of analytics as long as DG is in charge.
I think people over-think what he says  
George from PA : 1/11/2020 10:18 am : link
He was just trying to defend his basic principle....run the ball, stop the run, rush the passer....judge added civer kicks.....(i look forward to his short kick-off...which forces teams to run it out and rarely make it to the 25).
RE: I think people over-think what he says  
Essex : 1/11/2020 10:24 am : link
In comment 14773051 George from PA said:
Quote:
He was just trying to defend his basic principle....run the ball, stop the run, rush the passer....judge added civer kicks.....(i look forward to his short kick-off...which forces teams to run it out and rarely make it to the 25).

I think there is something to what you are saying and that is when i made your argument to myself before i posted i said How easy is it to say to be an efficient passing offense you need to be able to run the ball efficiently. It seems like he wants to prove to everyone that he is right about the run being MORE IMPORTANT than passing as opposed to what judge said at his presser which is you have to be an efficient offense no matter how you get there (when he went though if we have to pass 45 times to win we will and if we have to run 45 times we willówhich i loves from Judgeís presser)
OR  
Jeff : 1/11/2020 10:28 am : link
He was just saying that he liked that Judge's core beliefs are the same as his and the Giants. Stopping the run and being able to run the ball. Sounds like you are over thinking his words and probably not looking at the context of the question he was answering when he said that.
Essex  
cosmicj : 1/11/2020 10:30 am : link
Two possibilities spring to mind:

1) he doesnít understand statistics and has a fundamental misunderstanding about NFL winning football;

2) he knows better but has such disdain for the sort of hard core fans who would actually pay attention to the interview of an NFL GM that he thinks they will be convinced by bad stats.

Ignorance or arrogance. You choose.
Giants don't seem to be taking a quantum leap in anything  
Jimmy Googs : 1/11/2020 10:30 am : link
with DG in charge.


Quote:
...but I just donít think we are going to take a quantum leap in terms of analytics as long as DG is in charge
I think Joe Judge will get whatever he wants  
UConn4523 : 1/11/2020 10:38 am : link
if he thinks they need to bolster analytics Iím sure he will lobby to DG about it and will get what he needs granted. As for the OP that DG quote wasnít an end all be all claim, itís a principle that he thinks any successful team should strive for. What team doesnít want to control the trenches if given the choice?

People overthink this beyond belief.
Talk about overanalyzing.  
robbieballs2003 : 1/11/2020 10:50 am : link
Yes, total yards by itself isn't always the best way to judge a defense. Neither is just points allowed. However, whenever you talk about rankings most places use total yards as the way to rank offenses and defenses. There is nothing wrong with what he said except that KC is a top running team.
RE: Talk about overanalyzing.  
Essex : 1/11/2020 10:55 am : link
In comment 14773098 robbieballs2003 said:
Quote:
Yes, total yards by itself isn't always the best way to judge a defense. Neither is just points allowed. However, whenever you talk about rankings most places use total yards as the way to rank offenses and defenses. There is nothing wrong with what he said except that KC is a top running team.

Really because I doubt most nfl front offices use total yards as a benchmark. Second, he cited it, he saw a graphic and said hey that could bolster my point and the graphic is silly and meaningless. Would you invest in a company where the pitch is about ďgross salesĒ without ever talking about profit margin and net profit?
I canít read his mind, but all I know is that Mara said...  
morrison40 : 1/11/2020 11:02 am : link
His batting average on personnel acquisitions has to improve. If it does, the team benefits , if not he goes sooner rather than later. His reputation in the league is at an all time low.
RE: I canít read his mind, but all I know is that Mara said...  
Fred-in-Florida : 1/11/2020 11:12 am : link
In comment 14773117 morrison40 said:
Quote:
His batting average on personnel acquisitions has to improve. If it does, the team benefits , if not he goes sooner rather than later. His reputation in the league is at an all time low.


The first step is to get ride of Chris Mara as VP of Player personnel.
RE: RE: I canít read his mind, but all I know is that Mara said...  
Fred-in-Florida : 1/11/2020 11:19 am : link
In comment 14773137 Fred-in-Florida said:
Quote:
In comment 14773117 morrison40 said:


Quote:


His batting average on personnel acquisitions has to improve. If it does, the team benefits , if not he goes sooner rather than later. His reputation in the league is at an all time low.



The first step is to get ride of Chris Mara as VP of Player personnel.


rid not ride
RE: RE: Talk about overanalyzing.  
robbieballs2003 : 1/11/2020 11:32 am : link
In comment 14773107 Essex said:
Quote:
In comment 14773098 robbieballs2003 said:


Quote:


Yes, total yards by itself isn't always the best way to judge a defense. Neither is just points allowed. However, whenever you talk about rankings most places use total yards as the way to rank offenses and defenses. There is nothing wrong with what he said except that KC is a top running team.


Really because I doubt most nfl front offices use total yards as a benchmark. Second, he cited it, he saw a graphic and said hey that could bolster my point and the graphic is silly and meaningless. Would you invest in a company where the pitch is about ďgross salesĒ without ever talking about profit margin and net profit?


Again, when talking about how defenses are ranked, total yards is usually the way it is done. So, saying the top 4 team ... that is just trying to use common language to what is common for rankings. Nobody is saying other stats aren't more important. Holy shit.
good teams arent one dimensional  
Platos : 1/11/2020 11:35 am : link
run the ball, stop the run, rush the passer is a great start.
I think he just enjoys trolling  
mfsd : 1/11/2020 11:35 am : link
the know it alls on BBI
RE: RE: RE: I canít read his mind, but all I know is that Mara said...  
Coach Red Beaulieu : 1/11/2020 11:45 am : link
In comment 14773148 Fred-in-Florida said:
Quote:
In comment 14773137 Fred-in-Florida said:


Quote:


In comment 14773117 morrison40 said:


Quote:


His batting average on personnel acquisitions has to improve. If it does, the team benefits , if not he goes sooner rather than later. His reputation in the league is at an all time low.



The first step is to get ride of Chris Mara as VP of Player personnel.



rid not ride

He needs a one way ride to the horse tracks.
RE: Talk about overanalyzing.  
Gatorade Dunk : 1/11/2020 11:53 am : link
In comment 14773098 robbieballs2003 said:
Quote:
Yes, total yards by itself isn't always the best way to judge a defense. Neither is just points allowed. However, whenever you talk about rankings most places use total yards as the way to rank offenses and defenses. There is nothing wrong with what he said except that KC is a top running team.

What's wrong about it is he quoted it as a defense of his approach to roster construction without even a cursory reference to the context of those stats. He acts as though leading the league in rushing is an airtight strategy to win, yet never so much as even suggests an understanding that the reverse is the underlying context: winning is what makes many teams reach the top of the league in rushing yards.

In that sense, the net result is that he's right that there is a correlation between running the ball and winning football games, but he demonstrates very little capacity for understanding what drives that correlation and how it should inform roster decisions.

It's a more complex version of Gettleman's simplest flaw: prioritizing offensive line yet becoming inexplicably attached to shitty offensive linemen.
What was he thinking?  
trueblueinpw : 1/11/2020 11:56 am : link
I donít believe that Gettleman thinks much at all before he speaks. By all his limited appearances in the media which Iíve seen he seems to be a very impulsive and very emotional person. The good news is that Gettyís clearly on notice and the even better news is that Coach Judge appears to extremely deliberate and rational. Hopefully the worm has turned.
RE: RE: RE: Talk about overanalyzing.  
Gatorade Dunk : 1/11/2020 11:59 am : link
In comment 14773167 robbieballs2003 said:
Quote:
In comment 14773107 Essex said:


Quote:


In comment 14773098 robbieballs2003 said:


Quote:


Yes, total yards by itself isn't always the best way to judge a defense. Neither is just points allowed. However, whenever you talk about rankings most places use total yards as the way to rank offenses and defenses. There is nothing wrong with what he said except that KC is a top running team.


Really because I doubt most nfl front offices use total yards as a benchmark. Second, he cited it, he saw a graphic and said hey that could bolster my point and the graphic is silly and meaningless. Would you invest in a company where the pitch is about ďgross salesĒ without ever talking about profit margin and net profit?



Again, when talking about how defenses are ranked, total yards is usually the way it is done. So, saying the top 4 team ... that is just trying to use common language to what is common for rankings. Nobody is saying other stats aren't more important. Holy shit.

Actually that's precisely what Gettleman is doing when he neglects to mention that the playoff teams are almost universally among the top teams in passing efficiency. He clearly seems to prefer counting stats over rate stats - whether that's because he favors the simplicity of counting stats or doesn't quite understand the proper application of the appropriately data, or just because he's old school (he strikes me as the type of person who would probably be the sort of baseball fan to pay more attention to batting average than OBP, or to consider W-L the defining stat for a starting pitcher), it's irrelevant. He shows no interest in discussing the proper stats, which over time begins to suggest that he doesn't even pay attention to the right stats in the first place.
RE: good teams arent one dimensional  
Gatorade Dunk : 1/11/2020 12:00 pm : link
In comment 14773169 Platos said:
Quote:
run the ball, stop the run, rush the passer is a great start.

Whatever you say, Dave.
RE: I think he just enjoys trolling  
Gatorade Dunk : 1/11/2020 12:01 pm : link
In comment 14773170 mfsd said:
Quote:
the know it alls on BBI

That would be great if he was at least a know it some.
Come on, stop this  
AdamBrag : 1/11/2020 12:15 pm : link
He obviously knows what he's talking about. How else would he be 8-24 as GM of this team?
I wouldnít mind if he said you have to run and pass well  
Essex : 1/11/2020 12:24 pm : link
and then cite a relevant statistic. What I hate is that he cited a meaningless statistic to say look at all these run teams. That was a bad look.
Honestly  
Johnny5 : 1/11/2020 12:40 pm : link
I wish they would let Gettleman go just so I can stop seeing all the freaking nitpicking and complaining about every G*d*mn thing the guy says or does every 5 minutes. The Giants should just hire half of BBI as GM.
Just like last year when he said NYG Off scored most pts in NFC East  
sb from NYT Forum : 1/11/2020 12:43 pm : link
...which, who cares because the team was 5-11, and also not true because the points scored he cited included a defensive TD.
It'd be nice to be in the top 4 in the league  
GiantsRage2007 : 1/11/2020 1:35 pm : link
For a change in something besides losses and draft position
RE: Honestly  
Gatorade Dunk : 1/11/2020 1:44 pm : link
In comment 14773220 Johnny5 said:
Quote:
I wish they would let Gettleman go just so I can stop seeing all the freaking nitpicking and complaining about every G*d*mn thing the guy says or does every 5 minutes. The Giants should just hire half of BBI as GM.

They don't have to hire BBI. They can just stop letting DG be a mouthpiece for the organization. I have a hard time believing that he's actually as antiquated in practice as he is with his words, but he doesn't do himself any favors when he speaks.

He either thinks Giants fans are idiots, or he is one himself. I hope it's the former, though it's insulting. I can't say that with any confidence though, based on results to date.
Analytics is one limited tool used to categorize performance  
Torrag : 1/11/2020 3:01 pm : link
Carl Banks (@CarlBanksGIII)
1/9/20, 11:55 PM
It appears you lack of a basic understanding of basic football.. you Analytics told you who should've been in the playoffs. Real football tells us who is actually in the playoffs. And they are NOT the 4 top passing teams. Are you watching?
RE: Analytics is one limited tool used to categorize performance  
bw in dc : 1/11/2020 3:06 pm : link
In comment 14773340 Torrag said:
Quote:
Carl Banks (@CarlBanksGIII)
1/9/20, 11:55 PM
It appears you lack of a basic understanding of basic football.. you Analytics told you who should've been in the playoffs. Real football tells us who is actually in the playoffs. And they are NOT the 4 top passing teams. Are you watching?


This Banks quote was discussed yesterday.

And it's proof that Banks should stay in the TV booth and never be given a front office spot by a team seriously interested in winning...
Louis Riddick said after his GM interview  
shyster : 1/11/2020 3:14 pm : link
that he got the impression the Giants wanted to be a running team.

Gettleman wasn't in the room because he hadn't been hired yet.

Think about who was in the room and who would have been giving Riddick that impression.

When Gettleman goes on about wanting the Giants to be a running team, he knows he is in tune with the only person who will ever keep him in an NFL job.

So why shouldn't he.
This sounds like a correlation and not causation  
TheWalrus : 1/11/2020 3:42 pm : link
Ask anyone who plays fantasy football. Winning teams tend to be more conservative late in games to protect a lead. The team that is losing is usually chucking the ball downfield late in games to make a comeback. Garbage time yards count the same.

So yes the teams worst teams spend more time passing the ball and the best teams spend more time running out the clock. Hopefully he didn't waste too much of Mara's money paying a "computah guy" to come up with this nonsense.
RE: This sounds like a correlation and not causation  
BigBlueinChicago : 1/11/2020 3:55 pm : link
In comment 14773367 TheWalrus said:
Quote:
Ask anyone who plays fantasy football. Winning teams tend to be more conservative late in games to protect a lead. The team that is losing is usually chucking the ball downfield late in games to make a comeback. Garbage time yards count the same.

So yes the teams worst teams spend more time passing the ball and the best teams spend more time running out the clock. Hopefully he didn't waste too much of Mara's money paying a "computah guy" to come up with this nonsense.


It's like the old sayings I grew up hearing....

1. "Points come from the passing game."

2. "Run to win. Throw to score."

I read into Gettleman's words because I feel he is saying what he believes and that is then driving decision making in terms of personnel. He's almost 70 years old. Why would he be acting? Who specifically is he bullshitting? Certainly not the better teams in the NFL.
RE: RE: This sounds like a correlation and not causation  
TheWalrus : 1/11/2020 4:01 pm : link
In comment 14773375 BigBlueinChicago said:
Quote:
In comment 14773367 TheWalrus said:


Quote:


Ask anyone who plays fantasy football. Winning teams tend to be more conservative late in games to protect a lead. The team that is losing is usually chucking the ball downfield late in games to make a comeback. Garbage time yards count the same.

So yes the teams worst teams spend more time passing the ball and the best teams spend more time running out the clock. Hopefully he didn't waste too much of Mara's money paying a "computah guy" to come up with this nonsense.



It's like the old sayings I grew up hearing....

1. "Points come from the passing game."

2. "Run to win. Throw to score."

I read into Gettleman's words because I feel he is saying what he believes and that is then driving decision making in terms of personnel. He's almost 70 years old. Why would he be acting? Who specifically is he bullshitting? Certainly not the better teams in the NFL.


Yes, I can't stand Gettleman. I'm not saying he's wrong I'm saying that this is a very behind the times analysis of success. Like others have said on here, passing efficiency is a lot better of a metric.
RE: Honestly  
joeinpa : 1/11/2020 4:04 pm : link
In comment 14773220 Johnny5 said:
Quote:
I wish they would let Gettleman go just so I can stop seeing all the freaking nitpicking and complaining about every G*d*mn thing the guy says or does every 5 minutes. The Giants should just hire half of BBI as GM.


I understand. Lol
Geez, Louise  
section125 : 1/11/2020 4:14 pm : link
The stat proves what anybody with half a brain understands in football. If you run successfully, you a more likely to win. It has almost always been that way. Look at stats -teams with 50 pass attempts almost always loose.

It does prove his point or at least backs his vision. So yeah, maybe he is thumping his chest or maybe he is just trying to show that teams that successfully run the football and defend against the run win.
It was a dumb comment  
giantstock : 1/11/2020 5:00 pm : link
From a guy we already have to be concerned about.

Some teams blow you out early by passing forcing the opposing team to pass to catch up while they run.

Anyways, I wish he'd practice what he'd preach and get the GMEN an O-LINe.
'This Banks quote was discussed yesterday.'  
Torrag : 1/11/2020 5:19 pm : link
Yeah BBI members opinions carry more weight than what carl banks has to say about playing winning football. What a joke. You zipper heads have lost all sense of reality. The funnies part is you believe your own bullshit. Hahaha.
RE: 'This Banks quote was discussed yesterday.'  
bw in dc : 1/11/2020 5:35 pm : link
In comment 14773443 Torrag said:
Quote:
Yeah BBI members opinions carry more weight than what carl banks has to say about playing winning football. What a joke. You zipper heads have lost all sense of reality. The funnies part is you believe your own bullshit. Hahaha.


Carl Banks was a great player who played in an NFL that is considerably different than today's game. Unfortunately it sounds like his viewpoint is stuck in an era 30 years gone by...
RE: Geez, Louise  
Gatorade Dunk : 1/11/2020 11:26 pm : link
In comment 14773384 section125 said:
Quote:
The stat proves what anybody with half a brain understands in football. If you run successfully, you a more likely to win. It has almost always been that way. Look at stats -teams with 50 pass attempts almost always loose.

It does prove his point or at least backs his vision. So yeah, maybe he is thumping his chest or maybe he is just trying to show that teams that successfully run the football and defend against the run win.

No. Just like Gettleman, you have the correlation backwards. Teams that are losing tend to throw the ball in a desperate attempt to catch up.

This should be obvious, but clearly it isn't. Hence, Gettleman continues to have an audience.
RE: 'This Banks quote was discussed yesterday.'  
Gatorade Dunk : 1/11/2020 11:27 pm : link
In comment 14773443 Torrag said:
Quote:
Yeah BBI members opinions carry more weight than what carl banks has to say about playing winning football. What a joke. You zipper heads have lost all sense of reality. The funnies part is you believe your own bullshit. Hahaha.

You successfully used italics the other day. Now learn how to use reply.
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