Sounds like the difference making type player that this defense has been lacking. Giants have been killed by TE over the years, and adding an elite athlete like him could help solve that issue. Think Derwin James. The Draft Network - ( New Window )
If he is to be an NFL LB, he needs to bulk up. If he is a CB/ safety he is fine. Guys like Barkley would run all over him, TE who are that big will over power him. Just my opinion think he is over rated.
Here's what I love about Simmons - 7 sacks, 15 tfl, 3 INTs, 2 FF Â
that is a massive amount of big play production in 14 games and indicates a diverse skill set. The track times mentioned prove out how insane of an athlete he is, and the production indicates this isn't an athlete playing football but a guy who makes football plays. PFF even has him ranked highly in all of their different grade categories - here's their writeup of him as the 2nd best prospect in the NC game Monday (behind Burrow):
Quote:
2. LB/S ISAIAH SIMMONS, CLEMSON
Clemson’s Isaiah Simmons is perhaps the most versatile defensive player in this draft class. Whether he's playing on the line, in the box, in the slot or at free safety, he sees success. Simmons impressed in his 2017 redshirt freshman campaign but went from good to great in the year following when he was given the full-time starting duties at weakside linebacker, paving the way for him to produce an elite coverage grade.
As said, Simmons has played all over the place this year, seeing 100-plus snaps at every alignment group besides outside corner. He has proved he’s capable of doing this by producing run-defense, pass-rush and coverage grades all above 80.0. In coverage, the most important facet for his position(s), Simmons’ most yards allowed in a single game in 2019 came against one of the best offenses in the FBS in Oklahoma — and even then, he allowed just 40 yards while picking off a pass. He won’t be playing in the same hybrid manner he is now at the NFL level and will likely be a sole linebacker. No matter what, though, he is still a top-10 draft candidate.
Specifically re: the bolded part, when Judge talks about being multiple, this is the exact kind of player who can allow that. You can put him on the edge and have him go after the QB, or have him play a zone in the middle of the field, or have him spy a QB or shadow a TE/RB. And unlike similarly unique athletes like Dion Jordan or even Leonard Floyd, his has shown he can produce in all of those areas whereas they were more projections.
So far, he's the most polarizing player on BBI... Â
what made him so dangerous was his versatility having a major impact both receiving and blocking. He was like an extra offensive tackle. Which forced the defense to adjust to that by not being able to play soft in the box. Which allowed him receiving opportunities against LBs who were at a massive disadvantage.
A player like Simmons allows the same in reverse. If he's talented enough on the edge to win vs. backs/TE, teams will have to dedicate protection against him. And if they do that, that takes away a downfield option. And if his coverage skills are such that he can handle some nickel/dime responsibilities, at the same time he will make those looks that much harder to run against compared with how difficult it would be with a DB on the field.
So to me the grade on Simmons comes down in large part to how good you think he can be as a pass rusher, because that's what will dictate how much of a mismatch he can create proactively vs. reactively.
Also, sounds like a Joe Judge football player, who can be utilize in multiple schemes. If the Giants really think that he is a blue chipper, I would strongly consider him at #4. I know JohnC does not think he is worth a number for pick, because of his built, but I don’t know if he can bulk up and maintain his athleticism or not. I like the overall summary of the scouting report.
In a league that has plenty of quarterbacks that can run, I think he would be very beneficial in tracking down these types of QBs. It sounds like this the type of player that would solve the covering the TE problem that has been haunting the Giants for many years.
Watching him play what impresses me is he seems so fluid, everything he does seems effortless.
Need a creative D-coordinator to use him to his strengths.
Reminds me of Jabril Peppers coming out since they both didn't have a position but were incredible athletes with off the charts- weight, size, speed ratios
we had a play maker at LB. Seems like all we have done for the past 10 years is take what is left out there and try and make it work. Its about time we had a Darrius Leonard or Luke Kuechly. Always around the ball.
Watching him play what impresses me is he seems so fluid, everything he does seems effortless.
Need a creative D-coordinator to use him to his strengths.
[b]Reminds me of Jabril Peppers coming out[/b[ since they both didn't have a position but were incredible athletes with off the charts- weight, size, speed ratios
Ouch. Peppers hasn't exactly lit it up, here or in Cleveland.
Also see a special player that could be a side line to side line LB Â
in this league, Rarely get a shot at those guys unless you are in the front of the draft. Forget about filling the position for ten or more years barring injury.Think this new HC with his philosophy will find a spot for him in our defense. All over the field type player. Count me in at #4 or wherever.
which is ironic because many want to compare him to urlacher, and peterson happened to be in that same draft just a few picks later.
the only combine time I could find on him was a 4.68 and his official weigh in was 6'5 and 230 pounds. In his 6 years with the 49ers he:
started 72 games
5 INTs
7 FF
21.5 sacks
35 TFL
40 passes defensed
80-90 tackles per year (on average)
Made all pro twice
I believe due to injuries there were even a few times he had to lineup at CB.
He also had a few good years in Seattle after leaving the 49ers where he was more of a pass rusher with 24.5 sacks (and 9 FF) in 3 seasons.
I'd be thrilled to add a player like that, and if you can trade down slightly to add an extra day 2 pick and still get him even better. Julian Peterson - ( New Window )
is the type of player that goes with that Judge was saying during the press conference. “Tell me what you have, and it’s our job as coaches to put them in the best position to succeed.”
Considering this kid’s athleticism is off the charts and seems to be incredibly talented, I imagine with good coaching he could be a star.
RE: So far, he's the most polarizing player on BBI... Â
Not named Andrew Thomas. No biggie. Seems like there's at least one every year leading up to the draft.
I don’t think so. I think the “anti-Simmons” crowd sees him as more of a luxury pick given the current issues with the roster. If the Giants address some of that in FA it will open the draft a bit.
Personally, my question would be whether or not he has the body to hold up vs the run at the NFL level. Whether or not his productivity will translate to the pro level. If so he’d be a fine pick. The Giants haven’t had a LB good vs the run and a good blitzer since Pierce. The coverage stuff would just be a bonus.
Reese/Ross certainly veered more towards skilled athletes, but we shouldn't forget that when they picked those types high who also had toughness/production (JPP, Odell, Nicks, Phillips, Collins etc) they didn't do so bad. Their first round picks were generally pretty solid overall.
The guys who lacked toughness and production were the problems (Apple, Randle, Pugh).
Simmons production and combine will likely both rank a full level above Floyd (who isn't a completely useless player in his own right).
a Reese/Ross type pick, Athletic Tweener type. I still believe
Take the Best offensive tackle available.
I'm not a huge Simmons fan but what happens if the best OT available is graded by your own scouting dept as a mid-to-late first rounder? I'm all for upgrading the line and even making it the A1 priority. But it doesn't always work like that. That's how we wound up with guys like Pugh and Flowers.
camp. But I can see the counter points about his body type.
With a creative DC/organization, I think he could be used in 4-5 positions and be a complete pain in the ass to scheme against...
That's fair. With how much Judge is likely to preach toughness, winning, and versatility, it sounds like he could be a guy who really stands in the top 10 (depending on who his DC pick is). Simmons, Okudah, and Thomas are the 3 who seem mostly to be highly ranked around our pick (or even if they trade back a couple spots) and Simmons seems to fit Judge particularly well.
I'd also bet they are active in FA with DBs. Both Logan Ryan and James Bradberry strike me as potential targets, neither would preclude Okudah if he stands out from the rest but that remains to be seen.
RE: Floyd was considered mostly an edge rusher and had far less production Â
Reese/Ross certainly veered more towards skilled athletes, but we shouldn't forget that when they picked those types high who also had toughness/production (JPP, Odell, Nicks, Phillips, Collins etc) they didn't do so bad. Their first round picks were generally pretty solid overall.
The guys who lacked toughness and production were the problems (Apple, Randle, Pugh).
Simmons production and combine will likely both rank a full level above Floyd (who isn't a completely useless player in his own right).
Floyd is widely criticized and probably the Bears regret trading up for him. My opinion, I don't like "tweeners" Maybe I'm wrong
BB56 - if you expand from OT to OL there should be rd 2 options Â
going by GBN/Colin big board. Becton and Wanogho are particularly appealing because each has some unique physical traits.
#26 C Tyler Biadasz
#30 G Netane Muti
#35 T Austin Jackson
#38 G Shane Lemioux
#39 C Cesar Ruiz
#46 T Lucas Niang
#54 T Mekhi Becton
#56 T Prince Tega Wanogho
#59 T Josh Jones
#65 C Jake Hanson
Too many end up being mediocre guards and even if they pan out, it takes a couple years after making game changing/losing mistakes.
Many of the OT's in the draft remind me of Eric Flowers - hyped as a sure thing. Don't want to go through that again.
Read 20 different OT rankings and they can't agree on which one stands out as a winner. Some say Thomas, others have him as 3rd -5th best prospect at the position. Some have Wirf at the top of the pile and others have him as low as 5th or 6th. Some have Jedrick Wills as the top OT, others have Austin Jackson or Mekhi Becton as the creme-de-le-creme of OT's. Trey Adams and Leatherwood also are on the top of some lists. Prince Tega Wanogho is rated as high as the 2nd best OT and on some lists, doesn't even make the top 10. How does one pick the top OT? Roll the dice and hope he's not a bust?
Simmons is a sure thing, as is Young, Okudah, Derrick Brown, etc. When you hold the 4th overall pick, you take the "sure thing". We can't "pick and hope" some guy works out at a position of need since we also need LB's, S's, ER's, etc.
Reese/Ross certainly veered more towards skilled athletes, but we shouldn't forget that when they picked those types high who also had toughness/production (JPP, Odell, Nicks, Phillips, Collins etc) they didn't do so bad. Their first round picks were generally pretty solid overall.
The guys who lacked toughness and production were the problems (Apple, Randle, Pugh).
Simmons production and combine will likely both rank a full level above Floyd (who isn't a completely useless player in his own right).
Floyd is widely criticized and probably the Bears regret trading up for him. My opinion, I don't like "tweeners" Maybe I'm wrong
Floyd has started every game the past 2 years on a solid defense. That wasn't a very good draft, especially for edge rushers. He's been better than the majority of the defensive guys chosen in the 10 picks after him (Hargreaves, Apple, Lawson, Lee).
Re: tweeners I tend to go case by case. Some players get called tweeners because they are versatile (like Minkah Fitzpatrick) and some guys get called tweeners because they just arent the right size for any specific position. Simmons has an ideal size/speed profile for an NFL LB right now.
going by GBN/Colin big board. Becton and Wanogho are particularly appealing because each has some unique physical traits.
#26 C Tyler Biadasz
#30 G Netane Muti
#35 T Austin Jackson
#38 G Shane Lemioux
#39 C Cesar Ruiz
#46 T Lucas Niang
#54 T Mekhi Becton
#56 T Prince Tega Wanogho
#59 T Josh Jones
#65 C Jake Hanson
If he is to be an NFL LB, he needs to bulk up. If he is a CB/ safety he is fine. Guys like Barkley would run all over him, TE who are that big will over power him. Just my opinion think he is over rated.
He's 6'4 and weighs 230, that's 2" taller and 10 lbs heavier than the average NFL LB
We never had the opportunity to take the top 1 or 2 Tackles those years. I do want to take the highest graded player but do not think Simmons would be that high.
If he is to be an NFL LB, he needs to bulk up. If he is a CB/ safety he is fine. Guys like Barkley would run all over him, TE who are that big will over power him. Just my opinion think he is over rated.
He's 6'4 and weighs 230, that's 2" taller and 10 lbs heavier than the average NFL LB
220 lbs doesn't seem correct for the average NFL LB.
If he is to be an NFL LB, he needs to bulk up. If he is a CB/ safety he is fine. Guys like Barkley would run all over him, TE who are that big will over power him. Just my opinion think he is over rated.
He's 6'4 and weighs 230, that's 2" taller and 10 lbs heavier than the average NFL LB
220 lbs doesn't seem correct for the average NFL LB.
As a LB he probably has to put on 10-15 lbs, maybe even 20.
No way average LB is 220.
But at 6'4" it shouldnt effect his speed/quickness.
If he is to be an NFL LB, he needs to bulk up. If he is a CB/ safety he is fine. Guys like Barkley would run all over him, TE who are that big will over power him. Just my opinion think he is over rated.
He's 6'4 and weighs 230, that's 2" taller and 10 lbs heavier than the average NFL LB
220 lbs doesn't seem correct for the average NFL LB.
As a LB he probably has to put on 10-15 lbs, maybe even 20.
No way average LB is 220.
But at 6'4" it shouldnt effect his speed/quickness.
at SS or ILB the pass defense is more typically a zone assignment as opposed to a cover shadow thing. So it depends what they mean by 'zone is his weak spot'.
Does that mean "relative to his excellence in other tasks"
...or does that mean "below average as compared to other leading ILB / SS prospects?"
Big difference . Because if he's athletic enough to man cover but lacks instincts for zone pd that's a harder puzzle to solve for coach and maybe less disguisable play to play .
And because at OLB there is the size and power base factor.. which he might lack.
.
...and because at free safety it's basically or ideally a very fast, solidly built cornerback with excellent unusual -zone- pass instincts that one looks for.
UM at 215. Kid seems to be a similar to Urlacher IMO. He’s lighter but there’s zero reason a kid his size can’t put on weight in a few years. He doesn’t have to be 250-260 to be a stud.
you could easily go to profootballreference and find the average ht/weight for positions. The average weight in 2019 is > 241. Anyhow I'm not a fan of him at 4. At 4 you want as close to a sure thing as you can get and he isn't that.
If he is to be an NFL LB, he needs to bulk up. If he is a CB/ safety he is fine. Guys like Barkley would run all over him, TE who are that big will over power him. Just my opinion think he is over rated.
He's 6'4 and weighs 230, that's 2" taller and 10 lbs heavier than the average NFL LB
220 lbs doesn't seem correct for the average NFL LB.
As a LB he probably has to put on 10-15 lbs, maybe even 20.
No way average LB is 220.
But at 6'4" it shouldnt effect his speed/quickness.
I think you may be right. the website I took that from is blown up by all the others that say 240-250.
I uploaded the distribution to imgur. He has an odd frame so I'm not sure he can put on much weight. Maybe that won't matter and he will be great, but he seems a bit too risky imo
It's certainly an inflection point to find safeties that can play deep , diagnose and break on a pass from great distance with speed and get either the ball or make tackle .
It's not as rare as we like to think, it's that we don't prioritise it.
Whereas the Pats defensive backs have been assignment sound Â
It's certainly an inflection point to find safeties that can play deep , diagnose and break on a pass from great distance with speed and get either the ball or make tackle .
It's not as rare as we like to think, it's that we don't prioritise it.
I've gone on record as opposed to Simmons so high Â
because I doubt he's an ILB for the Giants, but if he can be a great oversized FS at the next level, a super sized Ronnie Lott, I'd happily climb on board.
I don't see him as hard hitting as Lott, but admit I need to look at him more carefully. Let's see tomorrow night, I imagine Burrow will keep him glued to the back third of Clemson's defense.
I think that he is a perfect fit for the Giants
He can play all over
He is scheme diverse and will give the defense a lot of flexibility
In reading about him his stock will even get higher after the combine
He is a rare athlete
Versatile, flexible, smart, etc. He might be our Mike Vrabel LB, only much more athletic.
Clemson’s Isaiah Simmons is perhaps the most versatile defensive player in this draft class. Whether he's playing on the line, in the box, in the slot or at free safety, he sees success. Simmons impressed in his 2017 redshirt freshman campaign but went from good to great in the year following when he was given the full-time starting duties at weakside linebacker, paving the way for him to produce an elite coverage grade.
As said, Simmons has played all over the place this year, seeing 100-plus snaps at every alignment group besides outside corner. He has proved he’s capable of doing this by producing run-defense, pass-rush and coverage grades all above 80.0. In coverage, the most important facet for his position(s), Simmons’ most yards allowed in a single game in 2019 came against one of the best offenses in the FBS in Oklahoma — and even then, he allowed just 40 yards while picking off a pass. He won’t be playing in the same hybrid manner he is now at the NFL level and will likely be a sole linebacker. No matter what, though, he is still a top-10 draft candidate.
Specifically re: the bolded part, when Judge talks about being multiple, this is the exact kind of player who can allow that. You can put him on the edge and have him go after the QB, or have him play a zone in the middle of the field, or have him spy a QB or shadow a TE/RB. And unlike similarly unique athletes like Dion Jordan or even Leonard Floyd, his has shown he can produce in all of those areas whereas they were more projections.
A player like Simmons allows the same in reverse. If he's talented enough on the edge to win vs. backs/TE, teams will have to dedicate protection against him. And if they do that, that takes away a downfield option. And if his coverage skills are such that he can handle some nickel/dime responsibilities, at the same time he will make those looks that much harder to run against compared with how difficult it would be with a DB on the field.
So to me the grade on Simmons comes down in large part to how good you think he can be as a pass rusher, because that's what will dictate how much of a mismatch he can create proactively vs. reactively.
In a league that has plenty of quarterbacks that can run, I think he would be very beneficial in tracking down these types of QBs. It sounds like this the type of player that would solve the covering the TE problem that has been haunting the Giants for many years.
Need a creative D-coordinator to use him to his strengths.
Reminds me of Jabril Peppers coming out since they both didn't have a position but were incredible athletes with off the charts- weight, size, speed ratios
Need a creative D-coordinator to use him to his strengths.
[b]Reminds me of Jabril Peppers coming out[/b[ since they both didn't have a position but were incredible athletes with off the charts- weight, size, speed ratios
Ouch. Peppers hasn't exactly lit it up, here or in Cleveland.
Simmons, Connelly comes back... That's a good start.
the only combine time I could find on him was a 4.68 and his official weigh in was 6'5 and 230 pounds. In his 6 years with the 49ers he:
started 72 games
5 INTs
7 FF
21.5 sacks
35 TFL
40 passes defensed
80-90 tackles per year (on average)
Made all pro twice
I believe due to injuries there were even a few times he had to lineup at CB.
He also had a few good years in Seattle after leaving the 49ers where he was more of a pass rusher with 24.5 sacks (and 9 FF) in 3 seasons.
I'd be thrilled to add a player like that, and if you can trade down slightly to add an extra day 2 pick and still get him even better.
Julian Peterson - ( New Window )
Considering this kid’s athleticism is off the charts and seems to be incredibly talented, I imagine with good coaching he could be a star.
I don’t think so. I think the “anti-Simmons” crowd sees him as more of a luxury pick given the current issues with the roster. If the Giants address some of that in FA it will open the draft a bit.
Personally, my question would be whether or not he has the body to hold up vs the run at the NFL level. Whether or not his productivity will translate to the pro level. If so he’d be a fine pick. The Giants haven’t had a LB good vs the run and a good blitzer since Pierce. The coverage stuff would just be a bonus.
Take the Best offensive tackle available.
Take the Best offensive tackle available.
I agree. He’s not a guy who’d punch you in the nose all game. And if we’re gonna be physically dominant we need a better OL.
My feelings exactly and in fact, believe he could actually have as big an impact on defense as Young.
My hope is that we trade down with Miami (to stop another team from jumping them for Tua), we pick an extra valuable pick and still get Simmons.
Take the Best offensive tackle available.
Agree, I don't like guys between LB and Safety, like Floyd on Bears, who has been underwhelming.
With a creative DC/organization, I think he could be used in 4-5 positions and be a complete pain in the ass to scheme against...
The guys who lacked toughness and production were the problems (Apple, Randle, Pugh).
Simmons production and combine will likely both rank a full level above Floyd (who isn't a completely useless player in his own right).
Take the Best offensive tackle available.
I'm not a huge Simmons fan but what happens if the best OT available is graded by your own scouting dept as a mid-to-late first rounder? I'm all for upgrading the line and even making it the A1 priority. But it doesn't always work like that. That's how we wound up with guys like Pugh and Flowers.
With a creative DC/organization, I think he could be used in 4-5 positions and be a complete pain in the ass to scheme against...
If we took him, are there any long term viable OTs in round 2 that could be a long term answer, iyo?
With a creative DC/organization, I think he could be used in 4-5 positions and be a complete pain in the ass to scheme against...
That's fair. With how much Judge is likely to preach toughness, winning, and versatility, it sounds like he could be a guy who really stands in the top 10 (depending on who his DC pick is). Simmons, Okudah, and Thomas are the 3 who seem mostly to be highly ranked around our pick (or even if they trade back a couple spots) and Simmons seems to fit Judge particularly well.
I'd also bet they are active in FA with DBs. Both Logan Ryan and James Bradberry strike me as potential targets, neither would preclude Okudah if he stands out from the rest but that remains to be seen.
The guys who lacked toughness and production were the problems (Apple, Randle, Pugh).
Simmons production and combine will likely both rank a full level above Floyd (who isn't a completely useless player in his own right).
Floyd is widely criticized and probably the Bears regret trading up for him. My opinion, I don't like "tweeners" Maybe I'm wrong
#26 C Tyler Biadasz
#30 G Netane Muti
#35 T Austin Jackson
#38 G Shane Lemioux
#39 C Cesar Ruiz
#46 T Lucas Niang
#54 T Mekhi Becton
#56 T Prince Tega Wanogho
#59 T Josh Jones
#65 C Jake Hanson
Many of the OT's in the draft remind me of Eric Flowers - hyped as a sure thing. Don't want to go through that again.
Read 20 different OT rankings and they can't agree on which one stands out as a winner. Some say Thomas, others have him as 3rd -5th best prospect at the position. Some have Wirf at the top of the pile and others have him as low as 5th or 6th. Some have Jedrick Wills as the top OT, others have Austin Jackson or Mekhi Becton as the creme-de-le-creme of OT's. Trey Adams and Leatherwood also are on the top of some lists. Prince Tega Wanogho is rated as high as the 2nd best OT and on some lists, doesn't even make the top 10. How does one pick the top OT? Roll the dice and hope he's not a bust?
Simmons is a sure thing, as is Young, Okudah, Derrick Brown, etc. When you hold the 4th overall pick, you take the "sure thing". We can't "pick and hope" some guy works out at a position of need since we also need LB's, S's, ER's, etc.
Quote:
Reese/Ross certainly veered more towards skilled athletes, but we shouldn't forget that when they picked those types high who also had toughness/production (JPP, Odell, Nicks, Phillips, Collins etc) they didn't do so bad. Their first round picks were generally pretty solid overall.
The guys who lacked toughness and production were the problems (Apple, Randle, Pugh).
Simmons production and combine will likely both rank a full level above Floyd (who isn't a completely useless player in his own right).
Floyd is widely criticized and probably the Bears regret trading up for him. My opinion, I don't like "tweeners" Maybe I'm wrong
Floyd has started every game the past 2 years on a solid defense. That wasn't a very good draft, especially for edge rushers. He's been better than the majority of the defensive guys chosen in the 10 picks after him (Hargreaves, Apple, Lawson, Lee).
Re: tweeners I tend to go case by case. Some players get called tweeners because they are versatile (like Minkah Fitzpatrick) and some guys get called tweeners because they just arent the right size for any specific position. Simmons has an ideal size/speed profile for an NFL LB right now.
I think they are just referencing his HS recruiting ranking (he wasn't a super high profile recruit).
#26 C Tyler Biadasz
#30 G Netane Muti
#35 T Austin Jackson
#38 G Shane Lemioux
#39 C Cesar Ruiz
#46 T Lucas Niang
#54 T Mekhi Becton
#56 T Prince Tega Wanogho
#59 T Josh Jones
#65 C Jake Hanson
Thank you
He's 6'4 and weighs 230, that's 2" taller and 10 lbs heavier than the average NFL LB
Quote:
If he is to be an NFL LB, he needs to bulk up. If he is a CB/ safety he is fine. Guys like Barkley would run all over him, TE who are that big will over power him. Just my opinion think he is over rated.
He's 6'4 and weighs 230, that's 2" taller and 10 lbs heavier than the average NFL LB
220 lbs doesn't seem correct for the average NFL LB.
Quote:
In comment 14773106 Philu916 said:
Quote:
If he is to be an NFL LB, he needs to bulk up. If he is a CB/ safety he is fine. Guys like Barkley would run all over him, TE who are that big will over power him. Just my opinion think he is over rated.
He's 6'4 and weighs 230, that's 2" taller and 10 lbs heavier than the average NFL LB
220 lbs doesn't seem correct for the average NFL LB.
As a LB he probably has to put on 10-15 lbs, maybe even 20.
No way average LB is 220.
But at 6'4" it shouldnt effect his speed/quickness.
Quote:
In comment 14773476 montanagiant said:
Quote:
In comment 14773106 Philu916 said:
Quote:
If he is to be an NFL LB, he needs to bulk up. If he is a CB/ safety he is fine. Guys like Barkley would run all over him, TE who are that big will over power him. Just my opinion think he is over rated.
He's 6'4 and weighs 230, that's 2" taller and 10 lbs heavier than the average NFL LB
220 lbs doesn't seem correct for the average NFL LB.
As a LB he probably has to put on 10-15 lbs, maybe even 20.
No way average LB is 220.
But at 6'4" it shouldnt effect his speed/quickness.
Look at the 2019 Combine LB sizes.
Link - ( New Window )
at SS or ILB the pass defense is more typically a zone assignment as opposed to a cover shadow thing. So it depends what they mean by 'zone is his weak spot'.
Does that mean "relative to his excellence in other tasks"
...or does that mean "below average as compared to other leading ILB / SS prospects?"
Big difference . Because if he's athletic enough to man cover but lacks instincts for zone pd that's a harder puzzle to solve for coach and maybe less disguisable play to play .
And because at OLB there is the size and power base factor.. which he might lack.
.
...and because at free safety it's basically or ideally a very fast, solidly built cornerback with excellent unusual -zone- pass instincts that one looks for.
Quote:
Someone better break the news to Simmons...
Somebody better break the news to dozens of prospects. That's not what "a three player draft" means.
I was being facetious.
Quote:
In comment 14773476 montanagiant said:
Quote:
In comment 14773106 Philu916 said:
Quote:
If he is to be an NFL LB, he needs to bulk up. If he is a CB/ safety he is fine. Guys like Barkley would run all over him, TE who are that big will over power him. Just my opinion think he is over rated.
He's 6'4 and weighs 230, that's 2" taller and 10 lbs heavier than the average NFL LB
220 lbs doesn't seem correct for the average NFL LB.
As a LB he probably has to put on 10-15 lbs, maybe even 20.
No way average LB is 220.
But at 6'4" it shouldnt effect his speed/quickness.
I think you may be right. the website I took that from is blown up by all the others that say 240-250.
Pepper's is an athlete who is fairly heavy for his speed but it's never clear what can be coached up and what cannot, on an individual basis.
Bethea , not really.
Not these corners. Certainly not most of the LBs.
It's as if they hadn't considered zone pass defense in drafting and hiring At All.
Or as if they just assumed you can coach that up but that's a dubious assumption.
So I'm more interested in proven actual free safeties (as opposed to a certain height priority or etc) or proven zone corner conversion projects.
That's not to preclude this player AND such, but how likely is that and in what round do they get back around to it.
Quote:
In comment 14773483 adamg said:
Quote:
Someone better break the news to Simmons...
Somebody better break the news to dozens of prospects. That's not what "a three player draft" means.
I was being facetious.
It's certainly an inflection point to find safeties that can play deep , diagnose and break on a pass from great distance with speed and get either the ball or make tackle .
It's not as rare as we like to think, it's that we don't prioritise it.
It's certainly an inflection point to find safeties that can play deep , diagnose and break on a pass from great distance with speed and get either the ball or make tackle .
It's not as rare as we like to think, it's that we don't prioritise it.
I don't see him as hard hitting as Lott, but admit I need to look at him more carefully. Let's see tomorrow night, I imagine Burrow will keep him glued to the back third of Clemson's defense.