I know he has had some inconsistent games and then had dominating performances against top defenses. I am convinced he will be taken at 4 unless the giants feel he is too flawed. It would allow Solder to move to RT, help jones and Barkley and take pressure off the defense.
Know this has been discussed at various times but curious for those with a scouting eye to give their assessment of Thomas
He looks like a solid LT who could help a team. And solid, to me, isn't a top ten slot.
I like Jackson but his last outing against Iowa was miserable. He may have played himself out of the first round...
No greater crapshoot than drafting and hoping you got a LT for the future. Hate to see a 4th overall pick used on a tackle that is NOT a sure thing.
I'd be more comfortable burning the 4th on Tyler Biadasz, the only "sure thing" in the draft on the offensive line. But it's an awfully high pick for a center.
I really wanted Chase Young in this draft, but looks like he's going to DC to terrorize Danny Dimes for the next 10 years. Awesome.
But if not Young I've wanted Okudah all along. I think he's a clear-cut top 5 pick and I think a stout pass defense is quickly becoming the name of the game for NFL defenses these days. If we switch to using more man-coverage, between him and Baker, I think teams are going to have a very difficult time throwing at either one of our corners.
All that said I think Okudah might go #3 to the Colts and then we're left to pick from the leftovers. Simmons is great but I just don't like the idea of taking a 'tweener with no real position at #4 overall. I'd be all for trading down if there's a decent offer.
I think that OT win over the Redskins screwed us over worse than a lot people even thought or would still like to admit, unfortunately.
For those who care about such things, here's a comparison between Ronnie Stanley at the 2016 NFL combine and Andrew Thomas at the highest profile elite HS prospect combine in 2016 at age 16:
Stanley - 6'5 / 312 / 5.2 (40) / 4.68 shuttle / 28.5 vert
Thomas - 6'4.5 / 326 / 5.35 (40) / 4.61 shuttle / 28.1 vert
Andrew Thomas is still only 20 years old right now. Is his tape/technique perfect? Nope. But there aren't very many guys with his gifts who have produced in the SEC week in and week out.
For those who care about such things, here's a comparison between Ronnie Stanley at the 2016 NFL combine and Andrew Thomas at the highest profile elite HS prospect combine in 2016 at age 16:
Stanley - 6'5 / 312 / 5.2 (40) / 4.68 shuttle / 28.5 vert
Thomas - 6'4.5 / 326 / 5.35 (40) / 4.61 shuttle / 28.1 vert
Andrew Thomas is still only 20 years old right now. Is his tape/technique perfect? Nope. But there aren't very many guys with his gifts who have produced in the SEC week in and week out.
This reads like some of the posts defending Flowers after his first few years.
Thomas
Wirf
Becton
Jackson
Wiils
Prince Tega-Wanagho (He has a Giants-type name)
I may be missing some (Source Walter Football)
Just very different prospects all around.
He looks very natural, has prototypical size/athleticism, he's been graded highly by the "experts", and he's been very battle tested in the SEC. He's not Ogden but he's a really intriguing prospect.
Which iis a big possibility. I just don't see us going CB with all the CBs we drafted last year
They absolutely need to add at least 1 starting level CB through either the draft or FA. I'd almost guarantee they don't enter training camp with Baker, Beal, Ballentine as the top 3 on the depth chart.
full profile - ( New Window )
They absolutely need to add at least 1 starting level CB through either the draft or FA. I'd almost guarantee they don't enter training camp with Baker, Beal, Ballentine as the top 3 on the depth chart.
Agree - CB's are always getting hurt and you can't have too many. Solution: Get FA Byron Jones - proven veteran and the best CB available in free agency - he's very, very good. The nicest thing though, is that the Cowboys want to keep him, but can't. Once they finally pony up and give Dak his payout, they are going to lose him because they have no cap room left...and they'll probably lose Amari Cooper as well. How sweet to vastly improve our CB's while flipping the Cowboys the middle finger. Adding Cooper would make half the Cowboys' fan a stroke. Do it DG!
He’s no where near as athletic as Tyron Smith or Trent Williams
Just very different prospects all around.
Stanley was a smooth player with good technique. People questioned his athleticism and if he had enough to be a good LT at the next level. Similar complaints to guys like Ramcyk.
I think scouts underrate technically sound players and overrate players with tools. It’s not as simple as “coaching him up” when the kid has played a certain way his entire life.
I want no part of Thomas at 4. The Giants should be selecting a clean prospect at 4, not a guy that’s all about “ifs” and “buts.”
Thomas plays too high. He’s slow out of his stance. I think his feet suck. My personal opinion is that he has bust written all over him. Let some other team take that risk.
There’s other guys the Giants can take later in the draft who can be good OL. It’s not worth the risk at 4.
Quote:
Baker was taken last year, but Ballentine was a late rounder and Beal hasn't been the healthiest.
They absolutely need to add at least 1 starting level CB through either the draft or FA. I'd almost guarantee they don't enter training camp with Baker, Beal, Ballentine as the top 3 on the depth chart.
Agree - CB's are always getting hurt and you can't have too many. Solution: Get FA Byron Jones - proven veteran and the best CB available in free agency - he's very, very good. The nicest thing though, is that the Cowboys want to keep him, but can't. Once they finally pony up and give Dak his payout, they are going to lose him because they have no cap room left...and they'll probably lose Amari Cooper as well. How sweet to vastly improve our CB's while flipping the Cowboys the middle finger. Adding Cooper would make half the Cowboys' fan a stroke. Do it DG!
If Logan Ryan or James Bradberry make it to FA I expect both to be high on their list. I agree Jones will probably be on their radar too.
Here are the weaknesses listed by Walterfootball back then, this is aligns with what I remember the questions at the time.
Lacks physicality
Doesn't get consistent movement in the ground game
Doesn't have a mean streak
Inconsistent pad level
Inconsistent finishing off plays
Teams question his passion for the game
Can struggle with physical defensive ends
Quote:
"I think he compares favorably to the Cowboys' Tyron Smith. That's high praise. I saw him play a lot of football at Notre Dame. He's a dancing bear. He was offered several Pac-12 basketball scholarships, so that tells you something about his feet. His pass protection skills are almost as good as Laremy Tunsil's, but right now Stanley is a better run blocker. Plus, Stanley is totally clean off the field, which is about to come into play." -- Mike Mayock
Here are the weaknesses listed by Walterfootball back then, this is aligns with what I remember the questions at the time.
Quote:
Weaknesses:
Lacks physicality
Doesn't get consistent movement in the ground game
Doesn't have a mean streak
Inconsistent pad level
Inconsistent finishing off plays
Teams question his passion for the game
Can struggle with physical defensive ends
That’s my point. No one questioned Stanley’s ability from a technique perspective.
I liked Stanley in that draft. I like guys that are technically/fundamentally sound coming into the NFL.
That’s part of the reason why I love Biadasz in this draft. Wisconsin OL are more pro ready than any other school imv. He’s the best of the Wisconsin guys coming out and he’s the best center in the draft. Technically sound, very smart, tough. I wouldn’t mind trading down and taking him in the first. You’ll get at least a solid Center immediately with the upside to be an All-Pro at his position.
Need to get lucky with the QB's rising up the boards, but generally agree. I suspect Tua ends up going to Detroit (if nothing else that would probably buy that regime more time) with Young + Burrow in the top 3.
We need to hope 1 of the other teams falls in love with 1 of the other qbs. Good news is there are a lot of teams behind us looking. Miami/SD obviously, but it wouldn't shock me to see Indy or Oak use their picks to move up as well. Neither Brissett or Carr are the answers.
Ideal move is 1 of those teams loving a QB and sending us some extra day 2 picks while still getting 1 of Simmons/Okudah/Thomas/Wills/Wirfs.
it's not like they used to produce a lot of them. In the 90's/early 00's it was basically Pace/Ogden/Jones/Roaf.
Joe Thomas was probably the only guy on that level for an extended period of time since then, though a few like Tyron Smith/Trent Williams have been close.
All the rules changes have definitely made things hardest on OL though (and DBs).
I really wanted Chase Young in this draft, but looks like he's going to DC to terrorize Danny Dimes for the next 10 years. Awesome.
But if not Young I've wanted Okudah all along. I think he's a clear-cut top 5 pick and I think a stout pass defense is quickly becoming the name of the game for NFL defenses these days. If we switch to using more man-coverage, between him and Baker, I think teams are going to have a very difficult time throwing at either one of our corners.
All that said I think Okudah might go #3 to the Colts and then we're left to pick from the leftovers. Simmons is great but I just don't like the idea of taking a 'tweener with no real position at #4 overall. I'd be all for trading down if there's a decent offer.
I think that OT win over the Redskins screwed us over worse than a lot people even thought or would still like to admit, unfortunately.
+1
have a draft profile that says
"better run blocker than pass blocker"
After watching what happened to Flowers, Greg Robinson vs guys like Jake Matthews, Ronnie Stanley, Tunsil, Lewan
the trend was really clear to me--
You draft athletes at OT that can pass block.
There are a lot of OTs in this draft that people are talking about having R1 grades. I'm sure that some of them will turn out to be fine pass blockers at a pro bowl level. But which one?
not the risk you take at #4 when you can possibly take a player with a better grade.
If Thomas is the best LT available, you take him at #4 and you move on. Trying to talk yourself into passing on him for a better talent, is how you end passing on EVERY offensive linemen b/c the Giants are shit at evaluating and grading them and have been for a while.
Anthony Munoz
Walter Jones
Tony Boselli
Willie Roaf
Jonathan Odgen
Blue Geese..
when your guy is one of those ill color him blue.. on then.. he just brown.. might just be a duck...
Saquon was 1 month younger when he was drafted than Thomas will be.
And the LT feet are there.
This is the guy you take even at 4 (or after slight tradedown).
Not Thomas.
Quote:
but your point also relies a somewhat flawed premise because Flowers had some definite stiffness/technique issues - which is why he wasn't rated very highly by most draft pundits. on the positive side he also had rare strength/size that was better than both Stanley/Thomas - so he was much more of a projection based on top tier tools but also some glaring technique flaws.
Just very different prospects all around.
Stanley was a smooth player with good technique. People questioned his athleticism and if he had enough to be a good LT at the next level. Similar complaints to guys like Ramcyk.
I think scouts underrate technically sound players and overrate players with tools. It’s not as simple as “coaching him up” when the kid has played a certain way his entire life.
I want no part of Thomas at 4. The Giants should be selecting a clean prospect at 4, not a guy that’s all about “ifs” and “buts.”
Thomas plays too high. He’s slow out of his stance. I think his feet suck. My personal opinion is that he has bust written all over him. Let some other team take that risk.
There’s other guys the Giants can take later in the draft who can be good OL. It’s not worth the risk at 4.
Agreed. No to Thomas, technique issues arent always coachable.
I really wanted Chase Young in this draft, but looks like he's going to DC to terrorize Danny Dimes for the next 10 years. Awesome.
But if not Young I've wanted Okudah all along. I think he's a clear-cut top 5 pick and I think a stout pass defense is quickly becoming the name of the game for NFL defenses these days. If we switch to using more man-coverage, between him and Baker, I think teams are going to have a very difficult time throwing at either one of our corners.
All that said I think Okudah might go #3 to the Colts and then we're left to pick from the leftovers. Simmons is great but I just don't like the idea of taking a 'tweener with no real position at #4 overall. I'd be all for trading down if there's a decent offer.
I think that OT win over the Redskins screwed us over worse than a lot people even thought or would still like to admit, unfortunately.
Use to feel this way until I got to study Mekhi. This kid is the goods. Elite Franchise LT potential, I haven't said that about a prospect in a while.
Tremendous - ( New Window )
Becton has that kind of upside more than anyone in this draft.