Because we would not be able to put the team around him to succeed right away like Baltimore could.
That says something about the Giants, doesn't it?
Besides, not going after Jackson (or the other QBs) was about setting up the third or fourth iteration of the Eli Revenge Tour. It was always about Eli.
it isn't just here. You could put Jackson on probably more than half of the teams out there and there would be problems. He's in an ideal situation with a team that has wisely built the offense around him.
Throw him on a team with a bad OL or a coach tied to a scheme and Jackson is going to be just another guy who has to scramble to save his life.
RE: RE: Jackson is LUCKY we, and many other teams, passed on him. Â
Because we would not be able to put the team around him to succeed right away like Baltimore could.
That says something about the Giants, doesn't it?
Besides, not going after Jackson (or the other QBs) was about setting up the third or fourth iteration of the Eli Revenge Tour. It was always about Eli.
It's simply a difference of opinion of roster construction.
I believe Saquon Barkley is a piece to build around. You don't. Doesn't make either point right or wrong.
The point is, for all this talk of the Giants getting set back, their CURRENT situation wouldn't be much different regardless of who we did or didn't take at #2 overall in 2018.
it isn't just here. You could put Jackson on probably more than half of the teams out there and there would be problems. He's in an ideal situation with a team that has wisely built the offense around him.
Throw him on a team with a bad OL or a coach tied to a scheme and Jackson is going to be just another guy who has to scramble to save his life.
The older I get, the more I see that with a lot of guys.
Would Mahomes still be the Mahomes we've come to know if he was drafted by the Bears at #2 overall? Or would he be just a guy.
To this point Barkley hasn't been a piece to build around. Jackson, as you and FMIC have pointed out, has been a piece for Baltimore to build around. The piece, actually.
And now, based on the Elliott and Gurley contracts, the Giants are a year away from resetting the RB market with Barkley's contract...even though there is overwhelming evidence that paying RBs big money is bad business. We'd have been better off drafting Jackson and building around him the way Baltimore has. What was stopping us?
You keep saying a year away, Barkley's rookie deal is 4 years plus the option. Are they going to pay him before the option year? Since he is already being paid as a top RB, I can see an extension before year 5, but not sooner.
That means you have two more seasons of Barkley under the rookie deal.
You keep saying a year away, Barkley's rookie deal is 4 years plus the option. Are they going to pay him before the option year? Since he is already being paid as a top RB, I can see an extension before year 5, but not sooner.
That means you have two more seasons of Barkley under the rookie deal.
Gurley and Elliott got their new contacts after year 3. I guess it's possible Barkley won't use that as the standard, but why wouldn't he?
To this point Barkley hasn't been a piece to build around. Jackson, as you and FMIC have pointed out, has been a piece for Baltimore to build around. The piece, actually.
And now, based on the Elliott and Gurley contracts, the Giants are a year away from resetting the RB market with Barkley's contract...even though there is overwhelming evidence that paying RBs big money is bad business. We'd have been better off drafting Jackson and building around him the way Baltimore has. What was stopping us?
They tweaked around him. There was no build required. They had a solid core.
We were not in that position, based on 10 years of bad drafting leading up to that pick.
How long do you think it would have taken Jackson to be functional with our roster in 2018?
If you're saying Jackson on the Giants wouldn't have worked because they've been badly managed and coached (like the Redskins, Jets, Bengals), I agree. But picking him would have at least been a different direction than what they opted to do - try to build another run around Eli. The road they actually chose was the worst one, as has been borne out by them being the worst team in the NFL over those two years.
Had they drafted Jackson and made an honest effort to build a team around his talent, they'd no doubt be in a better place today...which is essentially starting from zero with a new coach.
If they had drafted Jackson, with Shurmur as coach, and the OL was in the state it was, we are still likely looking at a terrible season, with the HC being fired and similar fallout.
That was my argumentation when people were saying if we picked Darnold we'd only have growing pains year 1, which people claimed they'd have patience for and then full takeoff in year 2. Ask the Jets how that theory sounds.
A lot of you guys like to throw around the "build around Eli" mantra, but this team likely is still in a similar situation if they cut Eli and drafted a QB two years ago, and then we are absent Barkley and Jones and there's little chance in hell we'd have Jackson. It would likely be Darnold and a pass rusher.
If you're saying Jackson on the Giants wouldn't have worked because they've been badly managed and coached (like the Redskins, Jets, Bengals), I agree. But picking him would have at least been a different direction than what they opted to do - try to build another run around Eli. The road they actually chose was the worst one, as has been borne out by them being the worst team in the NFL over those two years.
Had they drafted Jackson and made an honest effort to build a team around his talent, they'd no doubt be in a better place today...which is essentially starting from zero with a new coach.
Well what would "an honest effort to build a team around his talent" look like? What would they have done differently?
They still needed an o-line. They still needed a d-line. Sh-t, they need everything. I'm not sure what an honest effort to build around Jackson would look like. Not to mention, what would be be doing in the meantime, besides getting killed on a weekly basis because he was struggling to pass the ball?
Step one would have been to release Eli at the end of 2017, so the whole scenario is a non-starter. But are you asking for a step by step of what could have been done in the draft and free agency? I can do that, but then I'll just be accused of using hindsight.
that's because it is exactly what it would be. Unless you profess to know what DG and Shurmur would have done because they were the ones involved. You can't just say you'd draft Nelson and Jackson and think that was a likely scenario.
Step one would have been to release Eli at the end of 2017, so the whole scenario is a non-starter. But are you asking for a step by step of what could have been done in the draft and free agency? I can do that, but then I'll just be accused of using hindsight.
Well, the Ravens didn't cut Flacco outright. He started well into Jackson's first season.
that's because it is exactly what it would be. Unless you profess to know what DG and Shurmur would have done because they were the ones involved. You can't just say you'd draft Nelson and Jackson and think that was a likely scenario.
We knew at the time what the Giants were likely to do...draft Barkley because they weren't going to release Eli. Let's not pretend they're a hard team to read...I first brought up Daniel Jones at #6 in February.
There wasn't a snowball's chance in hell they were picking Jackson at #2, #34, or anywhere else.
Step one would have been to release Eli at the end of 2017, so the whole scenario is a non-starter. But are you asking for a step by step of what could have been done in the draft and free agency? I can do that, but then I'll just be accused of using hindsight.
Well, the Ravens didn't cut Flacco outright. He started well into Jackson's first season.
And that was a mistake by the Ravens, which they corrected in time before they lost their season.
Step one would have been to release Eli at the end of 2017, so the whole scenario is a non-starter. But are you asking for a step by step of what could have been done in the draft and free agency? I can do that, but then I'll just be accused of using hindsight.
Well, the Ravens didn't cut Flacco outright. He started well into Jackson's first season.
And that was a mistake by the Ravens, which they corrected in time before they lost their season.
Well were the Ravens going all in on Joe by not taking Jackson with their 1st round pick, and instead taking a TE and then trading back up at the end of the draft?
NFL in January is different. The nfl landscape is littered with athletic mvp type QBs that crumble in January. I don’t care anyone says but but these athletic QBs they aren’t very cerebral will struggle against big time defenses in January. The facts are the facts. The history is there for all to see. Jackson might win big one day. But he’s going to need to adjust and adapt. Same rule applies to deshaun watson. These QBs who drop back to pass and immediately go into fight or flight mode, and eschew true pocket play will never go far this time of year. Defenses and coaching are too good. They eat that style up for lunch. Adapt or go the way of so many before you. And eventually the regular season NFL will catch up to them too. This has been happening for decades.
Jackson isn't very cerebral? You're kidding, right? There's a remarkable amount of dumb shit posted on this thread
I can't explain why the Ravens started the season with Flacco. Like Eli, he had fallen off a cliff. And like with Eli, retaining him was a huge error. The Ravens learned and corrected their error much more quickly.
And just to follow up on my post about not drafting him with their 1st Â
That to me indicates a little luck on their part, too.
He wasn't good enough for them to take him at 25, but he was good value sitting there at the end of the round so they traded back up and got him.
If they had that level of conviction in him to cut their QB outright, they didn't show it. They ran a pretty big risk by letting him drop to the end of the round. So their is some luck on their part, too.
1. So you'd asked above what the Giants could have done differently. I won't go into a whole range of hypothetical draft picks, but I'll say this: from March 2018 to March 2020 the Giants will have spent $45.4M in cap space on Eli Manning. Had they released him between December 2017 and March 2018, they would have saved about $33M in cap space over those two seasons. That money alone could have rebuilt an entire OL from free agents alone. The average NFL spending on OL is $33.3M. That's for an entire offensive line. In case you're curious - NYG is 9th in the NFL in OL spending with $38M. BAL is 17th with $32.1M.
2. I made this point a couple weeks ago...why is the idea of the Giants drafting Jackson at #2 so insane? They drafted Daniel Jones at #6 a year later. Their college careers compared (each had three years as a starter):
I think drafting Jackson over Darnold, Allen, and Rosen would have been shocking to say the least.
Secondly, maybe the Giants were scouting a passer, and not a hybrid like Jackson. Maybe they wanted a more polished passer? Who knows? Jackson has a lot of work to do in the passing department while Jones looked ready to go as a passer very early.
Let me ask you this question... All things being the same... Roster, coaches, surrounding cast, etc... Exact same.... Who's the better QB on THIS roster? Jones or Jackson? There you might find your answer to why the Giants would take Jones at #6 and not Jackson at #2.
Jackson is incapable of being a good QB outside Baltimore? Or the Giants are incapable of utilizing an athletic QB?
And to be fair the Giants' offense was largely pretty poor with Jones at quarterback, so it's not as if Jackson would have a high bar to overcome.
These are two players on completely different levels. One's a complete question mark, the other is about to be the NFL MVP.
I'm saying exactly what I said before. Baltimore was a perfect landing spot for Jackson.
They had everything ready to go and plug him in. Great o-line, great defense, established run game. They just came off a 9-7 season when they drafted him.
We are/were the complete opposite of that. Horrible o-line, no defense, no running game. We had nothing.
It's pretty clear to me why Jackson could be successful in Baltimore and not so successful in New York.
In New York, he would have been required to make plays read defenses and make plays through the passing game. That wasn't really required of him in year one in Baltimore. They also tweaked further around his skills this year. Not every team can run the offense that they ran, just like every team couldn't run the wildcat. It's not dissimilar from what the Skins did with RG3 under Shanahan. And I know that any mention of RG3 rankles people in a comparison, but they have/had similar skillsets and there's probably a reason RG3 is the backup in Baltimore.
that Jackson has only played 10 more games than Jones, is only 5 months older, and completely blew Jones out of the water this year as a passer...right?
This is the kind of thing that is tough to take seriously. This is the blue glasses I'm talking about.
You want the one hitter quitter to come in on a rookie deal, light it up, and move on.
I can appreciate your outside of the box thinking, but I'm still looking for the longer term solution as the way to build my team.
Lamar Jackson is having an incredible, MVP season. Now, will he break the mold and not flame out like all of the others that have lit the league on fire before him in similar styles? Or will he stand the test of time.
You want the one hitter quitter to come in on a rookie deal, light it up, and move on.
I can appreciate your outside of the box thinking, but I'm still looking for the longer term solution as the way to build my team.
Lamar Jackson is having an incredible, MVP season. Now, will he break the mold and not flame out like all of the others that have lit the league on fire before him in similar styles? Or will he stand the test of time.
Guess we'll have to wait and see.
I want the best possible option at quarterback. Every year. More often than not that's going to be a guy in his rookie deal, unless he is absolutely exceptional.
I don't see the point in longevity at QB for longevity's sake. It's usually counterproductive, and it's unnecessary given the way offensive football has changed in college and the NFL.
If injuries are your concern, Daniel Jones missed more games to injury this season than Jackson has since high school (0).
In 2019 Jackson was a better passer than Daniel Jones and a better rusher than Saquon Barkley while missing zero games...both Jones and Barkley missed what, 2 or 3 games each?
NFL in January is different. The nfl landscape is littered with athletic mvp type QBs that crumble in January. I don’t care anyone says but but these athletic QBs they aren’t very cerebral will struggle against big time defenses in January. The facts are the facts. The history is there for all to see. Jackson might win big one day. But he’s going to need to adjust and adapt. Same rule applies to deshaun watson. These QBs who drop back to pass and immediately go into fight or flight mode, and eschew true pocket play will never go far this time of year. Defenses and coaching are too good. They eat that style up for lunch. Adapt or go the way of so many before you. And eventually the regular season NFL will catch up to them too. This has been happening for decades.
Jackson isn't very cerebral? You're kidding, right? There's a remarkable amount of dumb shit posted on this thread
How was that dumb shit? Dude score a fucking 13 on his wonderlic. He isn't very smart, tremendous athlete, but Elon Musk he is not.
If injuries are your concern, Daniel Jones missed more games to injury this season than Jackson has since high school (0).
In 2019 Jackson was a better passer than Daniel Jones and a better rusher than Saquon Barkley while missing zero games...both Jones and Barkley missed what, 2 or 3 games each?
Better passer than Jones...don't push it. He is not a better passer than Jones.
If injuries are your concern, Daniel Jones missed more games to injury this season than Jackson has since high school (0).
In 2019 Jackson was a better passer than Daniel Jones and a better rusher than Saquon Barkley while missing zero games...both Jones and Barkley missed what, 2 or 3 games each?
Better passer than Jones...don't push it. He is not a better passer than Jones.
When Jones learns any pocket presence, throws for a YPA of 7.8, and has a 36/6 TD/INT ratio we can talk about him being in Jackson's league as a passer.
If injuries are your concern, Daniel Jones missed more games to injury this season than Jackson has since high school (0).
In 2019 Jackson was a better passer than Daniel Jones and a better rusher than Saquon Barkley while missing zero games...both Jones and Barkley missed what, 2 or 3 games each?
Better passer than Jones...don't push it. He is not a better passer than Jones.
Jones certainly looks like a better passer because he resembles more of the text book style. And he has better mechanics by a significant margin. LJax tends to get very flat footed and uses much less lower body to throw. Throws a lot with just his arm.
But from an actual production standpoint, it's not even close. LJax.
If injuries are your concern, Daniel Jones missed more games to injury this season than Jackson has since high school (0).
In 2019 Jackson was a better passer than Daniel Jones and a better rusher than Saquon Barkley while missing zero games...both Jones and Barkley missed what, 2 or 3 games each?
Better passer than Jones...don't push it. He is not a better passer than Jones.
When Jones learns any pocket presence, throws for a YPA of 7.8, and has a 36/6 TD/INT ratio we can talk about him being in Jackson's league as a passer.
Right now, it isn't close.
Stats yes he has stats on his side. But I never saw Jones look like that show against Tennessee. Closest was the 3 INT game and he wasn't heaving end over end passes. Jackson is a product of a VG team, built to take advantage of his incredible run skills which hold LBs and safeties to defend the run.
Jackson is successful, he is fun to watch and he throws a nice deep ball as well as intermediate pass down the middle. But when was the last time you saw that many ducks, floaters, wobblers by an NFL QB(Billy Kilmer?). The crazy thing is he clearly can throw a nice ball. He is not a finished product, but what happens in a couple years when he slows down. Will he have corrected his passing flaws?
You know, the road of the last 10 years is littered with..... Â
guys that had insane one off, MVP caliber type years that fizzled out.
They were all supposed to change the game, they were all doing things nobody ever saw before, and they all fell short of winning a championship (which Terps you said is ultimately all that matters), and then the league adjusted and it was over.
RG3 in 2012
Kaepernick in 2012
Cam Newton in 2015
These guys blazed through the regular season, two made it to Superbowls, but ultimately couldn't overcome the teams they played that ran the ball well and played good defense. RG3 was hurt, but it was clear his style was not sustainable without learning to be a pure passer.
Will Lamar Jackson break the mold of what has come before? Remains to be seen. But so far, he's run into the same problems as the other guys. Teams that rush the ball really well and play really good defense neutralized him in the playoffs.
If anything, what these playoffs have shown us and reminded us of..... Â
you don't need a gimmick to win. Playing stout defense, and running the ball and controlling the line of scrimmage still matter a lot. And it still wins consistently.
Jackson is a dynamic QB because he can run. He is not a great passer.
Quote:
You do realize
Go Terps : 1/13/2020 6:15 pm : link : reply
that Jackson has only played 10 more games than Jones, is only 5 months older, and completely blew Jones out of the water this year as a passer...right?
The scheme and his ability to run opened up a lot of plays. His TD % passing the ball was 9%. But he's not a very good passer. Put him on the Giants, and he's scrambling for his life, and has to throw to the outside.
If we can't just admit that Jackson landed in one of the best spots for his style and that Baltimore has done what they can to build around that style, I don't know what else to say. He would not have that type of fit here or with several other teams.
to what Jones did with the Giants is just a brutal take. Its something I wouldn't expect from you, but here we are. Its like you are purposely ignoring the why and the how, and just posting numbers - very odd.
Jackson is a great talent, but he is not a good passer yet. He takes advantage of less double coverage due to his running ability (hats off to him, he should be doing this) and frequently gets to throw to open receivers because teams typically key in on him once he looks like he's breaking the pocket.
And then there's Jones. He's more accurate, has plenty of arm, but doesn't get the benefit of his running game or good protection so he's routinely throwing into tight coverage (there were stats on this all season long about how small the WR separation is compared to other teams). Jones fumbles a lot, so did Jackson his rookie year (almost identical fumble rates).
That says something about the Giants, doesn't it?
Besides, not going after Jackson (or the other QBs) was about setting up the third or fourth iteration of the Eli Revenge Tour. It was always about Eli.
Throw him on a team with a bad OL or a coach tied to a scheme and Jackson is going to be just another guy who has to scramble to save his life.
Quote:
Because we would not be able to put the team around him to succeed right away like Baltimore could.
That says something about the Giants, doesn't it?
Besides, not going after Jackson (or the other QBs) was about setting up the third or fourth iteration of the Eli Revenge Tour. It was always about Eli.
It's simply a difference of opinion of roster construction.
I believe Saquon Barkley is a piece to build around. You don't. Doesn't make either point right or wrong.
The point is, for all this talk of the Giants getting set back, their CURRENT situation wouldn't be much different regardless of who we did or didn't take at #2 overall in 2018.
Throw him on a team with a bad OL or a coach tied to a scheme and Jackson is going to be just another guy who has to scramble to save his life.
The older I get, the more I see that with a lot of guys.
Would Mahomes still be the Mahomes we've come to know if he was drafted by the Bears at #2 overall? Or would he be just a guy.
Coaching matters. Situation matters.
And now, based on the Elliott and Gurley contracts, the Giants are a year away from resetting the RB market with Barkley's contract...even though there is overwhelming evidence that paying RBs big money is bad business. We'd have been better off drafting Jackson and building around him the way Baltimore has. What was stopping us?
That means you have two more seasons of Barkley under the rookie deal.
That means you have two more seasons of Barkley under the rookie deal.
Gurley and Elliott got their new contacts after year 3. I guess it's possible Barkley won't use that as the standard, but why wouldn't he?
And now, based on the Elliott and Gurley contracts, the Giants are a year away from resetting the RB market with Barkley's contract...even though there is overwhelming evidence that paying RBs big money is bad business. We'd have been better off drafting Jackson and building around him the way Baltimore has. What was stopping us?
They tweaked around him. There was no build required. They had a solid core.
We were not in that position, based on 10 years of bad drafting leading up to that pick.
How long do you think it would have taken Jackson to be functional with our roster in 2018?
Baltimore had a core foundation of a solid OL as well as a solid D - and that;s also key. Jackson on a team playing from behind often is sub-optimal.
Had they drafted Jackson and made an honest effort to build a team around his talent, they'd no doubt be in a better place today...which is essentially starting from zero with a new coach.
Of course any complaints about the org is seen as whining around here.
If they had drafted Jackson, with Shurmur as coach, and the OL was in the state it was, we are still likely looking at a terrible season, with the HC being fired and similar fallout.
That was my argumentation when people were saying if we picked Darnold we'd only have growing pains year 1, which people claimed they'd have patience for and then full takeoff in year 2. Ask the Jets how that theory sounds.
A lot of you guys like to throw around the "build around Eli" mantra, but this team likely is still in a similar situation if they cut Eli and drafted a QB two years ago, and then we are absent Barkley and Jones and there's little chance in hell we'd have Jackson. It would likely be Darnold and a pass rusher.
Had they drafted Jackson and made an honest effort to build a team around his talent, they'd no doubt be in a better place today...which is essentially starting from zero with a new coach.
Well what would "an honest effort to build a team around his talent" look like? What would they have done differently?
They still needed an o-line. They still needed a d-line. Sh-t, they need everything. I'm not sure what an honest effort to build around Jackson would look like. Not to mention, what would be be doing in the meantime, besides getting killed on a weekly basis because he was struggling to pass the ball?
I haven't...I know it's about the Ravens, but I don't know which year.
Well, the Ravens didn't cut Flacco outright. He started well into Jackson's first season.
We knew at the time what the Giants were likely to do...draft Barkley because they weren't going to release Eli. Let's not pretend they're a hard team to read...I first brought up Daniel Jones at #6 in February.
There wasn't a snowball's chance in hell they were picking Jackson at #2, #34, or anywhere else.
Quote:
Step one would have been to release Eli at the end of 2017, so the whole scenario is a non-starter. But are you asking for a step by step of what could have been done in the draft and free agency? I can do that, but then I'll just be accused of using hindsight.
Well, the Ravens didn't cut Flacco outright. He started well into Jackson's first season.
And that was a mistake by the Ravens, which they corrected in time before they lost their season.
Quote:
In comment 14777020 Go Terps said:
Quote:
Step one would have been to release Eli at the end of 2017, so the whole scenario is a non-starter. But are you asking for a step by step of what could have been done in the draft and free agency? I can do that, but then I'll just be accused of using hindsight.
Well, the Ravens didn't cut Flacco outright. He started well into Jackson's first season.
And that was a mistake by the Ravens, which they corrected in time before they lost their season.
Well were the Ravens going all in on Joe by not taking Jackson with their 1st round pick, and instead taking a TE and then trading back up at the end of the draft?
Jackson isn't very cerebral? You're kidding, right? There's a remarkable amount of dumb shit posted on this thread
If somebody said he's a terrible ball carrier, that's something to take issue with. Or if they said the Ravens haven't had success with him.
He wasn't good enough for them to take him at 25, but he was good value sitting there at the end of the round so they traded back up and got him.
If they had that level of conviction in him to cut their QB outright, they didn't show it. They ran a pretty big risk by letting him drop to the end of the round. So their is some luck on their part, too.
2. I made this point a couple weeks ago...why is the idea of the Giants drafting Jackson at #2 so insane? They drafted Daniel Jones at #6 a year later. Their college careers compared (each had three years as a starter):
Passing
Jackson: 57%, 9043 yards, 8.3 Y/A, 69/27
Jones: 59.9%, 8201, 6.4 Y/A, 52/29
Rushing
Jackson: 4132 yards, 6.3 Y/A, 50 TDs
Jones: 1323 yards, 3.3 Y/A, 17 TDs
Jackson won a Heisman and finished 3rd in the voting the next year. Jones was obviously never in the discussion.
So let me get this straight...drafting Jackson at #2 overall is insane, but drafting Jones #6 overall the next year makes all the sense in the world?
Can you explain that to me?
I think drafting Jackson over Darnold, Allen, and Rosen would have been shocking to say the least.
Secondly, maybe the Giants were scouting a passer, and not a hybrid like Jackson. Maybe they wanted a more polished passer? Who knows? Jackson has a lot of work to do in the passing department while Jones looked ready to go as a passer very early.
Let me ask you this question... All things being the same... Roster, coaches, surrounding cast, etc... Exact same.... Who's the better QB on THIS roster? Jones or Jackson? There you might find your answer to why the Giants would take Jones at #6 and not Jackson at #2.
I personally think Jackson would be a completely different QB on this team as constructed.
And to be fair the Giants' offense was largely pretty poor with Jones at quarterback, so it's not as if Jackson would have a high bar to overcome.
These are two players on completely different levels. One's a complete question mark, the other is about to be the NFL MVP.
And to be fair the Giants' offense was largely pretty poor with Jones at quarterback, so it's not as if Jackson would have a high bar to overcome.
These are two players on completely different levels. One's a complete question mark, the other is about to be the NFL MVP.
I'm saying exactly what I said before. Baltimore was a perfect landing spot for Jackson.
They had everything ready to go and plug him in. Great o-line, great defense, established run game. They just came off a 9-7 season when they drafted him.
We are/were the complete opposite of that. Horrible o-line, no defense, no running game. We had nothing.
It's pretty clear to me why Jackson could be successful in Baltimore and not so successful in New York.
In New York, he would have been required to make plays read defenses and make plays through the passing game. That wasn't really required of him in year one in Baltimore. They also tweaked further around his skills this year. Not every team can run the offense that they ran, just like every team couldn't run the wildcat. It's not dissimilar from what the Skins did with RG3 under Shanahan. And I know that any mention of RG3 rankles people in a comparison, but they have/had similar skillsets and there's probably a reason RG3 is the backup in Baltimore.
I guess? My reservations would be the same as what I just posted.
Will he develop fully as a passer. If he can't run, or the defense takes away the run, can he beat them through the air?
This is the kind of thing that is tough to take seriously. This is the blue glasses I'm talking about.
I personally think Jackson would be a completely different QB on this team as constructed.
LJax's limitations anywhere would be derivative of the imagination and abilities of the coaching staff...
I'm still wanting the 10 plus year starter.
You want the one hitter quitter to come in on a rookie deal, light it up, and move on.
I can appreciate your outside of the box thinking, but I'm still looking for the longer term solution as the way to build my team.
Lamar Jackson is having an incredible, MVP season. Now, will he break the mold and not flame out like all of the others that have lit the league on fire before him in similar styles? Or will he stand the test of time.
Guess we'll have to wait and see.
I'm still wanting the 10 plus year starter.
You want the one hitter quitter to come in on a rookie deal, light it up, and move on.
I can appreciate your outside of the box thinking, but I'm still looking for the longer term solution as the way to build my team.
Lamar Jackson is having an incredible, MVP season. Now, will he break the mold and not flame out like all of the others that have lit the league on fire before him in similar styles? Or will he stand the test of time.
Guess we'll have to wait and see.
I want the best possible option at quarterback. Every year. More often than not that's going to be a guy in his rookie deal, unless he is absolutely exceptional.
I don't see the point in longevity at QB for longevity's sake. It's usually counterproductive, and it's unnecessary given the way offensive football has changed in college and the NFL.
In 2019 Jackson was a better passer than Daniel Jones and a better rusher than Saquon Barkley while missing zero games...both Jones and Barkley missed what, 2 or 3 games each?
Quote:
NFL in January is different. The nfl landscape is littered with athletic mvp type QBs that crumble in January. I don’t care anyone says but but these athletic QBs they aren’t very cerebral will struggle against big time defenses in January. The facts are the facts. The history is there for all to see. Jackson might win big one day. But he’s going to need to adjust and adapt. Same rule applies to deshaun watson. These QBs who drop back to pass and immediately go into fight or flight mode, and eschew true pocket play will never go far this time of year. Defenses and coaching are too good. They eat that style up for lunch. Adapt or go the way of so many before you. And eventually the regular season NFL will catch up to them too. This has been happening for decades.
Jackson isn't very cerebral? You're kidding, right? There's a remarkable amount of dumb shit posted on this thread
How was that dumb shit? Dude score a fucking 13 on his wonderlic. He isn't very smart, tremendous athlete, but Elon Musk he is not.
In 2019 Jackson was a better passer than Daniel Jones and a better rusher than Saquon Barkley while missing zero games...both Jones and Barkley missed what, 2 or 3 games each?
Better passer than Jones...don't push it. He is not a better passer than Jones.
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If injuries are your concern, Daniel Jones missed more games to injury this season than Jackson has since high school (0).
In 2019 Jackson was a better passer than Daniel Jones and a better rusher than Saquon Barkley while missing zero games...both Jones and Barkley missed what, 2 or 3 games each?
Better passer than Jones...don't push it. He is not a better passer than Jones.
When Jones learns any pocket presence, throws for a YPA of 7.8, and has a 36/6 TD/INT ratio we can talk about him being in Jackson's league as a passer.
Right now, it isn't close.
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If injuries are your concern, Daniel Jones missed more games to injury this season than Jackson has since high school (0).
In 2019 Jackson was a better passer than Daniel Jones and a better rusher than Saquon Barkley while missing zero games...both Jones and Barkley missed what, 2 or 3 games each?
Better passer than Jones...don't push it. He is not a better passer than Jones.
Jones certainly looks like a better passer because he resembles more of the text book style. And he has better mechanics by a significant margin. LJax tends to get very flat footed and uses much less lower body to throw. Throws a lot with just his arm.
But from an actual production standpoint, it's not even close. LJax.
Otherwise its just people pumping up Jackson despite his epic fails in the post-season.
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In comment 14777596 Go Terps said:
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If injuries are your concern, Daniel Jones missed more games to injury this season than Jackson has since high school (0).
In 2019 Jackson was a better passer than Daniel Jones and a better rusher than Saquon Barkley while missing zero games...both Jones and Barkley missed what, 2 or 3 games each?
Better passer than Jones...don't push it. He is not a better passer than Jones.
When Jones learns any pocket presence, throws for a YPA of 7.8, and has a 36/6 TD/INT ratio we can talk about him being in Jackson's league as a passer.
Right now, it isn't close.
Stats yes he has stats on his side. But I never saw Jones look like that show against Tennessee. Closest was the 3 INT game and he wasn't heaving end over end passes. Jackson is a product of a VG team, built to take advantage of his incredible run skills which hold LBs and safeties to defend the run.
Jackson is successful, he is fun to watch and he throws a nice deep ball as well as intermediate pass down the middle. But when was the last time you saw that many ducks, floaters, wobblers by an NFL QB(Billy Kilmer?). The crazy thing is he clearly can throw a nice ball. He is not a finished product, but what happens in a couple years when he slows down. Will he have corrected his passing flaws?
They were all supposed to change the game, they were all doing things nobody ever saw before, and they all fell short of winning a championship (which Terps you said is ultimately all that matters), and then the league adjusted and it was over.
RG3 in 2012
Kaepernick in 2012
Cam Newton in 2015
These guys blazed through the regular season, two made it to Superbowls, but ultimately couldn't overcome the teams they played that ran the ball well and played good defense. RG3 was hurt, but it was clear his style was not sustainable without learning to be a pure passer.
Will Lamar Jackson break the mold of what has come before? Remains to be seen. But so far, he's run into the same problems as the other guys. Teams that rush the ball really well and play really good defense neutralized him in the playoffs.
Go Terps : 1/13/2020 6:15 pm : link : reply
that Jackson has only played 10 more games than Jones, is only 5 months older, and completely blew Jones out of the water this year as a passer...right?
The scheme and his ability to run opened up a lot of plays. His TD % passing the ball was 9%. But he's not a very good passer. Put him on the Giants, and he's scrambling for his life, and has to throw to the outside.
If we can't just admit that Jackson landed in one of the best spots for his style and that Baltimore has done what they can to build around that style, I don't know what else to say. He would not have that type of fit here or with several other teams.
Jackson is a great talent, but he is not a good passer yet. He takes advantage of less double coverage due to his running ability (hats off to him, he should be doing this) and frequently gets to throw to open receivers because teams typically key in on him once he looks like he's breaking the pocket.
And then there's Jones. He's more accurate, has plenty of arm, but doesn't get the benefit of his running game or good protection so he's routinely throwing into tight coverage (there were stats on this all season long about how small the WR separation is compared to other teams). Jones fumbles a lot, so did Jackson his rookie year (almost identical fumble rates).
I don't really know what else to say.