is is big Lamar Jackson fan. He's 16 but has a good head for football.
After the first pick (which I don't think was on Jackson), I said to him, "We're going to find out a lot about Jackson because playoff football is a lot different than regular-season football. And how he responds will be interesting."
I think where Jackson pressed the most wasn't throwing the ball but the two 4th down plays. He botched both. And because of that, he was a huge reason why they lost.
is is big Lamar Jackson fan. He's 16 but has a good head for football.
After the first pick (which I don't think was on Jackson), I said to him, "We're going to find out a lot about Jackson because playoff football is a lot different than regular-season football. And how he responds will be interesting."
I think where Jackson pressed the most wasn't throwing the ball but the two 4th down plays. He botched both. And because of that, he was a huge reason why they lost.
The offense wasn’t the same once Engram went down. They could just key in on Lamar at that point.
It would have been a better game if Engram didn’t reactivate his injury.
Shouldn’t be reading too much into a single loss in a guys second year. If Daniel Jones has an NFL MVP year next year, secures a first round bye and then takes a dump in the divisional round...how should we react?
I think the season long lickspittle worship for a guy that hasn't won a thing yet is brutal. I'm grateful I won't have to hear how he is reinventing football at least for a few months.
This game wasn't about Lamar Jackson, much as Vrabel Â
It was all about, as Cowher put it immediately afterwards, Tennessee dominating on both sides of the LOS.
It was about blocking, defeating blocks, and great tackling. It was about individuals playing as a team and each manhandling his responsibility.
Yeah a great big fast durable back like Henry helps make that execution pay off, big time, but it starts up front on both sides of the ball. When Jackson tried to convert that 2nd 4th and one, Tennessee's DL successfully moved the entire LOS two yards backwards; Jackson had nowhere to run, and nowhere to hide.
RE: RE: 6 dropped passes huge differnece in the game Â
And missing on two 4th and 1's really hurt. I think it was foolish to go for the first one, in their own territory early. But of course, they've been money on converting those all year I believe.
Jackson is a great talent, I'm not sure he'll be proficient at the all the necessary throws but he's a great player.
The thing to watch is the punishment he begins to take as his career enters a third year. He's extremely phsyical and strong.....but NFL defenders bring it and has they start to chip away at him, you could see his game diminish more quickly.
Shouldn’t be reading too much into a single loss in a guys second year. If Daniel Jones has an NFL MVP year next year, secures a first round bye and then takes a dump in the divisional round...how should we react?
This isn’t a single loss. Its the second loss in the playoffs for Jackson in which he’s been fucking awful. The only difference is, this year, Baltimore was a one seed.
Shouldn’t be reading too much into a single loss in a guys second year. If Daniel Jones has an NFL MVP year next year, secures a first round bye and then takes a dump in the divisional round...how should we react?
This isn’t a single loss. Its the second loss in the playoffs for Jackson in which he’s been fucking awful. The only difference is, this year, Baltimore was a one seed.
He was 22 and 23 at the time of these losses. Our guy, who I really like, wasn’t even in the playoffs his rookie year.
It is crazy how the takes change week to week. It goes to show you, know one really knows anything. One of the better talent evaluators missed completely on him as a QB.
came up a lot as always in tonight's game thread. Many saying that Harbaugh and the Ravens were out coached tonight. I have never considered it to be that simple. Sometime your best players just do not play well. Peyton had more than his share of awful performances in playoff games. Maybe Lamar has been prematurely anointed as that next great thing or maybe he is just a young pup in only his second season and had a crappy night. Either way, you can't discount the amazing season he had. He has a lot of years ahead of him to make up for tonight and get it right. There have also been quite a few top seeds over the years that have played like shit in the playoffs after having a week off. We knocked a few of them out ourselves.
It is crazy how the takes change week to week. It goes to show you, know one really knows anything. One of the better talent evaluators missed completely on him as a QB.
Yeah. Totally missed. What has he actually won again?
Being any better than he is now. He’s not smart. He’s not accurate. He’s not a natural passer. He’s in the best scheme he could possibly ever hope for.
What he is may be good enough for the fans. Maybe it’s good enough for the Ravens. But I don’t ever see it being good enough to win a championship. Maybe if they build a 00 Ravens D and he simply never has to throw they can win.
It is crazy how the takes change week to week. It goes to show you, know one really knows anything. One of the better talent evaluators missed completely on him as a QB.
Yeah. Totally missed. What has he actually won again?
If winning is all you look at, then a lot of QB are not great. Marino never won a SB. In reference to him needing to play WR instead QB, I feel he has proven he can play QB in the NFL. I assume you are not referring to what Polian has won.
No you’re right. He’s been phenomenal in the playoffs.
Christ.
I’m not sure I understand what it is you think you’ve proven here. Jackson is going to win the MVP, he’s vastly exceeded expectations already. Sure, he’d trade that MVP in a heartbeat for a win tonight and a shot at the super bowl this season. He’s 0-2 in the playoffs. He was awful last season and not good tonight, although he didn’t get a ton of help. But two playoff losses does not validate the fact that you’ve likely been completely wrong about this player overall.
Very curious your issue with him, why you find the need to start a thread floating about the playoff loss of a non rival player?
It is crazy how the takes change week to week. It goes to show you, know one really knows anything. One of the better talent evaluators missed completely on him as a QB.
Yeah. Totally missed. What has he actually won again?
If winning is all you look at, then a lot of QB are not great. Marino never won a SB. In reference to him needing to play WR instead QB, I feel he has proven he can play QB in the NFL. I assume you are not referring to what Polian has won.
Dan Marino actually made it to a Super Bowl so, try again. Also, we’re seriously bringing up a Marino/Jackson argument? Really?
He’s one of 2 people to have a perfect passer rating twice in a season.
Losing to a 6 seed in the playoffs while turning over the ball three times and barely completed half his passes doesn't diminish what he's done this season?
I'm sure Baltimore is super happy tonight that LJ lit it up in the regular season.
No you’re right. He’s been phenomenal in the playoffs.
Christ.
I’m not sure I understand what it is you think you’ve proven here. Jackson is going to win the MVP, he’s vastly exceeded expectations already. Sure, he’d trade that MVP in a heartbeat for a win tonight and a shot at the super bowl this season. He’s 0-2 in the playoffs. He was awful last season and not good tonight, although he didn’t get a ton of help. But two playoff losses does not validate the fact that you’ve likely been completely wrong about this player overall.
Very curious your issue with him, why you find the need to start a thread floating about the playoff loss of a non rival player?
The OP is a troll from around the draft and he’s made it this long. They all come out when it’s convenient and around the same times during the of year.
It is crazy how the takes change week to week. It goes to show you, know one really knows anything. One of the better talent evaluators missed completely on him as a QB.
Yeah. Totally missed. What has he actually won again?
If winning is all you look at, then a lot of QB are not great. Marino never won a SB. In reference to him needing to play WR instead QB, I feel he has proven he can play QB in the NFL. I assume you are not referring to what Polian has won.
Dan Marino actually made it to a Super Bowl so, try again. Also, we’re seriously bringing up a Marino/Jackson argument? Really?
Jesus fucking christ.
I was only brining up that I think Jackson can play QB in the NFL and that Polian missed on his evaluation. You brought up winning. I used Marino as an example of why using winning when determining if a person can play a certain position does not seem like the best way. At no point that I compare the two as a player. You won at using the Lord's name in vain.
He’s one of 2 people to have a perfect passer rating twice in a season.
Losing to a 6 seed in the playoffs while turning over the ball three times and barely completed half his passes doesn't diminish what he's done this season?
I'm sure Baltimore is super happy tonight that LJ lit it up in the regular season.
It doesn’t mean the guy can’t play. Football is a team sport and Lamar doesn’t play defense. He also lost his best offensive weapon in Engram. It’s not all on his shoulders.
NFL in January is different. The nfl landscape is littered with athletic mvp type QBs that crumble in January. I don’t care anyone says but but these athletic QBs they aren’t very cerebral will struggle against big time defenses in January. The facts are the facts. The history is there for all to see. Jackson might win big one day. But he’s going to need to adjust and adapt. Same rule applies to deshaun watson. These QBs who drop back to pass and immediately go into fight or flight mode, and eschew true pocket play will never go far this time of year. Defenses and coaching are too good. They eat that style up for lunch. Adapt or go the way of so many before you. And eventually the regular season NFL will catch up to them too. This has been happening for decades.
No you’re right. He’s been phenomenal in the playoffs.
Christ.
I’m not sure I understand what it is you think you’ve proven here. Jackson is going to win the MVP, he’s vastly exceeded expectations already. Sure, he’d trade that MVP in a heartbeat for a win tonight and a shot at the super bowl this season. He’s 0-2 in the playoffs. He was awful last season and not good tonight, although he didn’t get a ton of help. But two playoff losses does not validate the fact that you’ve likely been completely wrong about this player overall.
Very curious your issue with him, why you find the need to start a thread floating about the playoff loss of a non rival player?
The OP is a troll from around the draft and he’s made it this long. They all come out when it’s convenient and around the same times during the of year.
He’s one of 2 people to have a perfect passer rating twice in a season.
Losing to a 6 seed in the playoffs while turning over the ball three times and barely completed half his passes doesn't diminish what he's done this season?
I'm sure Baltimore is super happy tonight that LJ lit it up in the regular season.
It doesn’t mean the guy can’t play. Football is a team sport and Lamar doesn’t play defense. He also lost his best offensive weapon in Engram. It’s not all on his shoulders.
I think if Andrews hauled in that pass -- the kind of pass Jackson threw to him that resulted in completions all year -- the entire complexion of the game changes. They were moving the ball well on that first drive up to that point.
Control the LOS on both sides you win the game.
Jackson is a great athlete no doubt but last night his accuracy was off plus some bad drops by his receivers.
Give credit to Titans defense who had a great game plan against Ravens.
In some respects they remind of the 2007 Giants.
They are on a roll and will be tough to beat in the playoffs. Vrabel is doing a wonderful job preparing them for these playoff games.
Playoff loss in second year of career definitely defines a career Â
You are never as good or as bad as they say you are. Remember when Michael Vick first came back to the Eagles some of the talking heads were calling him the greatest QB of all time.
Never believe all the hype. You have to wait years to make an evaluation.
He didn't look good at all. His passes were shaky - throwing behind guys, throwing high, throwing no where near them. He was also dancing in the backfield on 4th and 1.
That said, this is a team game and the Ravens didn't look good on either side of the ball. Yet another example of a team with a bye week, giving players off week 16. 3 weeks is too much time for these guys and they just weren't ready.
Another reminder that post season is a different animal and some guys are clutch and others aren't. But, Jackson is young and the Ravens will back. He will have another chance to prove himself.
A big difference between Eli and Lamar is that Lamar has a record number of pro bowlers on his team. This seemed like THE year for him to win and he may never have as good a team around him again. Eli did not have that in any yesr.
He’s probably the most talented player in the NFL. And the Ravens did a great job of building their offense around him.
I just don’t think the game has ever evolved enough or ever will enough to support this type of QB winning championships.
You have to be able to throw consistently in the NFL. Also you can’t be a run first QB all the time and expect to survive. He hasn’t gotten hurt yet but he runs too much. It’s going to catch up to him.
The Ravens window to win a title with him has 2 more years IMO before he breaks down. I really don’t think it will happen especially now that the Titans gave the rest of the NFL the blueprint on how to stop him and frustrate him.
There are a lot of young QBs in the NFL I would rather have than him if I was building a team, especially for long term success. Mahomes, Watson, Garropolo. Hell, I wouldn’t be surprised if I’m adding Jones and Burrow to that list this time next year. And vets that can still win like Rodgers and Wilson will probably still be playing at a high level by the time Jackson flares out.
People are so fucking dumb. I think Lamar is overrated as a player, but judging him off of two playoff losses as a 1st and 2nd year player is really fucking absurd. He's 23 years old and got beat by a team that just beat the best QB & HC of all time.
What has he won? Nothing. Because he's played 2 fucking years in the NFL. He might never win anything. Who knows? Saying stuff like that just makes you look dumb. What QB has won as a rookie or 2nd year player?
NFL in January is different. The nfl landscape is littered with athletic mvp type QBs that crumble in January. I don’t care anyone says but but these athletic QBs they aren’t very cerebral will struggle against big time defenses in January. The facts are the facts. The history is there for all to see. Jackson might win big one day. But he’s going to need to adjust and adapt. Same rule applies to deshaun watson. These QBs who drop back to pass and immediately go into fight or flight mode, and eschew true pocket play will never go far this time of year. Defenses and coaching are too good. They eat that style up for lunch. Adapt or go the way of so many before you. And eventually the regular season NFL will catch up to them too. This has been happening for decades.
Oooh, a little subtle bit of racism there from the captain of the cheerleading squad.
Athletic QBs are, by definition, less cerebral? I haven't seen you question Jones's brain, yet he's every bit as athletic as Watson. Curious choice of examples of athletic QBs being less cerebral.
No you’re right. He’s been phenomenal in the playoffs.
Christ.
LOL seriously, he’s come up short when it’s mattered most. It doesn’t mean he won’t be back and finally win some of these games but as of now teams have planned against him and he’s failed miserably. That’s what good teams with good coaches do.
Jackson and his team fell behind, he tried to pass way more than they would like. He had some turnovers and Titans stretched the lead. Jackson was pressing more and more and made whata' ya know...made more mistakes.
Jackson and Ravens had a great year but the NFL Playoffs are all about one thing...
"Either you play your best football in January or you are going home."
drive was huge. Tenn is a lot like Baltimore they need to play with the lead. Tenn defense did a great job. If Baltimore scores on the first drive I think its a different game.
people called Eli a shitty postseason quarterback, too. Let's see what the future brings.
That said, I think a lot of the ridicule of Jackson right now comes less from his performance and more from the fact that some folks have been way over the top in praising him throughout the season (not unlike a certain poster and Cam Newton in years past). When you talk up a player to obnoxious levels, people take a disproportionate amount of joy in his failures.
to Khalif whatshisface, that just about broke the Ravens' backs right there. What a great call by Vrabel. Went straight for the jugular. Very Parcels like.
They'd been front runners all year, and suddenly were in a hole. They didn't respond well, but mostly that's hats off to the Titans. They are very well coached.
people called Eli a shitty postseason quarterback, too. Let's see what the future brings.
That said, I think a lot of the ridicule of Jackson right now comes less from his performance and more from the fact that some folks have been way over the top in praising him throughout the season (not unlike a certain poster and Cam Newton in years past). When you talk up a player to obnoxious levels, people take a disproportionate amount of joy in his failures.
But Jackson really HAS rewritten the rules of the game, hasn't he?
Shouldn’t be reading too much into a single loss in a guys second year. If Daniel Jones has an NFL MVP year next year, secures a first round bye and then takes a dump in the divisional round...how should we react?
This isn’t a single loss. Its the second loss in the playoffs for Jackson in which he’s been fucking awful. The only difference is, this year, Baltimore was a one seed.
Go back and take a look at how Eli started off his playoff career. Young QBs need to learn how to win in the postseason. Drawing conclusions about the guy based on two playoff games his first two years in the league is beyond premature.
Being any better than he is now. He’s not smart. He’s not accurate. He’s not a natural passer. He’s in the best scheme he could possibly ever hope for.
What he is may be good enough for the fans. Maybe it’s good enough for the Ravens. But I don’t ever see it being good enough to win a championship. Maybe if they build a 00 Ravens D and he simply never has to throw they can win.
Not smart? No reason to use code just come out with it.
Why is he not smart? Do you know he ran one of the more complicated passing offenses in college?
the Raven's defense gave up two touchdowns. Then, they were behind 28-6 in the 3rd Qtr.
Does anyone think that MAY make a fucking difference in how plays are then called by the Ravens offense and the Titan's defense?
We don't even have to get into the Mark Ingram injury either.
What does matter is that the Ravens offense was bad and the QB leading it was not good. Kid has talent, but on 4th and one(a couple times) failed to pick up 1st downs doing what he still does best - run.
To me, that he was very good on balls down the middle and even deep while being terrible on sideline throws is a bit disconcerting. He is young and may/should get better, but many of his throws were just plain bad.
On a side note, his running is off the charts good. He is so fast and change of direction quick that it defies logic. It was slightly amusing watching Titans plays whiff and flail at a ghost.
Being any better than he is now. He’s not smart. He’s not accurate. He’s not a natural passer. He’s in the best scheme he could possibly ever hope for.
What he is may be good enough for the fans. Maybe it’s good enough for the Ravens. But I don’t ever see it being good enough to win a championship. Maybe if they build a 00 Ravens D and he simply never has to throw they can win.
Not smart? No reason to use code just come out with it.
Why is he not smart? Do you know he ran one of the more complicated passing offenses in college?
Be careful, you might get accused of derailing a thread bringing up that stuff. "The Man" does not seem to like that discussion or we can trust ourselves to have a normal discussion.
NFL in January is different. The nfl landscape is littered with athletic mvp type QBs that crumble in January. I don’t care anyone says but but these athletic QBs they aren’t very cerebral will struggle against big time defenses in January. The facts are the facts. The history is there for all to see. Jackson might win big one day. But he’s going to need to adjust and adapt. Same rule applies to deshaun watson. These QBs who drop back to pass and immediately go into fight or flight mode, and eschew true pocket play will never go far this time of year. Defenses and coaching are too good. They eat that style up for lunch. Adapt or go the way of so many before you. And eventually the regular season NFL will catch up to them too. This has been happening for decades.
Oooh, a little subtle bit of racism there from the captain of the cheerleading squad.
Athletic QBs are, by definition, less cerebral? I haven't seen you question Jones's brain, yet he's every bit as athletic as Watson. Curious choice of examples of athletic QBs being less cerebral.
Lamar Jackson rocked a 13 on the Wonderlic. It’s not a “subtle hint of racism” — he’s just fucking dumb.
That theory should always be employed vs Jackson, make him throw the ball outside. But, the defensive players must stick to it. It's tempting to chase Jackson. Play your assignment.
It is crazy how the takes change week to week. It goes to show you, know one really knows anything. One of the better talent evaluators missed completely on him as a QB.
Yeah. Totally missed. What has he actually won again?
If winning is all you look at, then a lot of QB are not great. Marino never won a SB. In reference to him needing to play WR instead QB, I feel he has proven he can play QB in the NFL. I assume you are not referring to what Polian has won.
Yeah, people getting all caught up in this "winning" stuff. What gives?
NFL in January is different. The nfl landscape is littered with athletic mvp type QBs that crumble in January. I don’t care anyone says but but these athletic QBs they aren’t very cerebral will struggle against big time defenses in January. The facts are the facts. The history is there for all to see. Jackson might win big one day. But he’s going to need to adjust and adapt. Same rule applies to deshaun watson. These QBs who drop back to pass and immediately go into fight or flight mode, and eschew true pocket play will never go far this time of year. Defenses and coaching are too good. They eat that style up for lunch. Adapt or go the way of so many before you. And eventually the regular season NFL will catch up to them too. This has been happening for decades.
Oooh, a little subtle bit of racism there from the captain of the cheerleading squad.
Athletic QBs are, by definition, less cerebral? I haven't seen you question Jones's brain, yet he's every bit as athletic as Watson. Curious choice of examples of athletic QBs being less cerebral.
Lamar Jackson rocked a 13 on the Wonderlic. It’s not a “subtle hint of racism” — he’s just fucking dumb.
I'm not suggesting that LJ is a rocket scientist, just that when someone connects a lack of intellect with an abundance of athleticism, there is often an unspoken context that they are associating intelligence (or lack thereof) with stereotype.
NFL in January is different. The nfl landscape is littered with athletic mvp type QBs that crumble in January. I don’t care anyone says but but these athletic QBs they aren’t very cerebral will struggle against big time defenses in January. The facts are the facts. The history is there for all to see. Jackson might win big one day. But he’s going to need to adjust and adapt. Same rule applies to deshaun watson. These QBs who drop back to pass and immediately go into fight or flight mode, and eschew true pocket play will never go far this time of year. Defenses and coaching are too good. They eat that style up for lunch. Adapt or go the way of so many before you. And eventually the regular season NFL will catch up to them too. This has been happening for decades.
Oooh, a little subtle bit of racism there from the captain of the cheerleading squad.
Athletic QBs are, by definition, less cerebral? I haven't seen you question Jones's brain, yet he's every bit as athletic as Watson. Curious choice of examples of athletic QBs being less cerebral.
Lamar Jackson rocked a 13 on the Wonderlic. It’s not a “subtle hint of racism” — he’s just fucking dumb.
Be careful, if you use facts you still risk the masses on here calling you a racist
NFL in January is different. The nfl landscape is littered with athletic mvp type QBs that crumble in January. I don’t care anyone says but but these athletic QBs they aren’t very cerebral will struggle against big time defenses in January. The facts are the facts. The history is there for all to see. Jackson might win big one day. But he’s going to need to adjust and adapt. Same rule applies to deshaun watson. These QBs who drop back to pass and immediately go into fight or flight mode, and eschew true pocket play will never go far this time of year. Defenses and coaching are too good. They eat that style up for lunch. Adapt or go the way of so many before you. And eventually the regular season NFL will catch up to them too. This has been happening for decades.
Oooh, a little subtle bit of racism there from the captain of the cheerleading squad.
Athletic QBs are, by definition, less cerebral? I haven't seen you question Jones's brain, yet he's every bit as athletic as Watson. Curious choice of examples of athletic QBs being less cerebral.
Lol what? You’re a fucking lunatic.
I would have drafted Jackson at 2 overall you wingnut. Right now, at this very moment, Jackson is not a very cerebral qb. That’s what you need to win in January more than anything else. Fuck off.
is is big Lamar Jackson fan. He's 16 but has a good head for football.
After the first pick (which I don't think was on Jackson), I said to him, "We're going to find out a lot about Jackson because playoff football is a lot different than regular-season football. And how he responds will be interesting."
Your son should take heart: Eli Manning was 0-2 in his first playoff appearances and Peyton Manning was 0-3. Jackson will be back. He's a brilliant talent in this league.
I think where Jackson pressed the most wasn't throwing the ball but the two 4th down plays. He botched both. And because of that, he was a huge reason why they lost.
don’t care anyone says but but these athletic QBs they aren’t very cerebral will struggle against big time defenses in January
It should read as “but these athletic QBs THAT aren’t very cerebral will struggle.” So maybe you were so quick to play the horse shit race card because “THEY aren’t very cerebral” might give someone the urge to go there, ok, you’re still awful quick to the trigger.
Not every athletic qb is black. Not every athletic qb isn’t cerebral. Happy now?
Wonderlic score of any QB who has won the Super Bowl since the year 2000 is Trent Dilfer with a 22, the next lowest is Big Ben with a 25. Mike Mayock a few years back on the NFL Network draft broadcast said most NFL teams want at least a score of 21 as bare minimum on the exam. Obviously there are countless other ways to test someone intelligence. This is just one way of doing it
NFL in January is different. The nfl landscape is littered with athletic mvp type QBs that crumble in January. I don’t care anyone says but but these athletic QBs they aren’t very cerebral will struggle against big time defenses in January. The facts are the facts. The history is there for all to see. Jackson might win big one day. But he’s going to need to adjust and adapt. Same rule applies to deshaun watson. These QBs who drop back to pass and immediately go into fight or flight mode, and eschew true pocket play will never go far this time of year. Defenses and coaching are too good. They eat that style up for lunch. Adapt or go the way of so many before you. And eventually the regular season NFL will catch up to them too. This has been happening for decades.
And if you read the whole post you could process Â
That I was saying Jackson has time to improve. I mean it’s two fucking years this thread is fucking stupid anyway. It’s too soon. But it’s a fact that QBs in January need to win from the pocket. They need to read defenses. They need to do more than juke and make plays with their head down.
Don’t be too quick to call someone a racist. Do that shit in public and see where it ends up.
NFL in January is different. The nfl landscape is littered with athletic mvp type QBs that crumble in January. I don’t care anyone says but but these athletic QBs they aren’t very cerebral will struggle against big time defenses in January. The facts are the facts. The history is there for all to see. Jackson might win big one day. But he’s going to need to adjust and adapt. Same rule applies to deshaun watson. These QBs who drop back to pass and immediately go into fight or flight mode, and eschew true pocket play will never go far this time of year. Defenses and coaching are too good. They eat that style up for lunch. Adapt or go the way of so many before you. And eventually the regular season NFL will catch up to them too. This has been happening for decades.
Oooh, a little subtle bit of racism there from the captain of the cheerleading squad.
Athletic QBs are, by definition, less cerebral? I haven't seen you question Jones's brain, yet he's every bit as athletic as Watson. Curious choice of examples of athletic QBs being less cerebral.
Lol what? You’re a fucking lunatic.
I would have drafted Jackson at 2 overall you wingnut. Right now, at this very moment, Jackson is not a very cerebral qb. That’s what you need to win in January more than anything else. Fuck off.
I did not see Jackson make glaring mental errors. What I saw was a bit of indecision on two 4th and 1s and poor throws to the outside. I think he saw what he should have seen but was unable to throw the ball where he wanted to. He has throwing technique problems.
I wonder at the usefulness and accuracy of the Wonderlic test when it involves black athletes. It has been proven that many standardized tests were written for what white middle/upper middle class people would think/associate. I'm not an educator but my daughter is and said that inner city and non-whites are at a disadvantage on these tests because of where they grow up and ethnic differences. I'm sure someone here can explain it better.
Keep the same energy if Jones is bad in his first two playoff games.
You do realize this board has taken a dump for the past several years on our 2-time SB MVP QB.
Do you really not think Jones is going to be Teflon if he sucks in the playoffs? This place will be Defcon5.
Regarding Jackson, the guy is in likely the best place he can be to succeed. Baltimore has built the offense and gameplan around him. But it is still a gimmicky run-heavy offense that when that running threat becomes neutralized, Jackson isn't going to beat you through the air.
The playoffs every year have strong defenses that can make a player 1-dimensional.
They couldn’t stop the run. The 4th down calls cost them. Jackson’s RB was hurt. He lost his best receiver. They dropped a lot of passes including a walk in TD. He made some bad throws to the outside which is a weakness.
But they lost because Henry is dominating the NFL right now. That’s the story. Henry just dominated BAL and NE. Chiefs won’t be able to handle this guy.
After TEN goes to the SB and wins it. Maybe Jackson isn’t such a bum.
Jackson needs to become a passer first, a runner second. The NFL is littered with the remains of QBs who could not make this adjustment. Defenses will adapt. Hell, the Titans D just gave everyone the blueprint for this.
But it seems like they're trying to force the issue with this guy.I don't see superstar at all,and it could have been worse if Tennessee had gone after him a little more.
When you make judgments about players early in their careers, Â
That going 9-7 over and over and over like the Titans have done isn’t as miserable a place to be as some may have thought. Keep knocking on the door like the Titans have and you just might break through eventually. Still have more to do though. Tannenhill has really helped them. Hope they go all the way and win it. Fuck everyone else.
What’s that winning % in his first 25 NFL games? Including playoffs? Best ever? If not the highest winning % for a 2nd year QB, it’s close.
How many TD did he score this year while his team had the highest scoring offense in the NFL.? One of the highest scoring offenses in the last 5 years (top 3).
Yes, some success here.
RE: RE: Playoff loss in second year of career definitely defines a career Â
Giants were not a 2 seed ever in Elis career. I think the Giants were the 4 seed that year.
They were a 1 seed in 2008-09 playoffs though. And lost to a 6 seed (sigh).
Ironically because of their inability to pass the ball. If Eli hadn’t won a Super Bowl the year before this bird would have wanted his head on a plate after that performance.
I think a QB is evaluated on his 3rd season. There’s enough tape and scheme on LJ now for defenses to stop him. Now he needs to learn to make reads and checks and make big plays in big spots. His inability to throw outside is a concern and someone made a good point above about the difficulty catching wobbly passes. There’s much to clean up and much more to learn. He’s obviously a gifted athlete, he seems like a terrific young man and it would be dumb to write the kid off at this point.
Injury is always concern and that’s been ignored by many in the media suggesting - yet again - that a mobile athletic QB like LJ was changing the game. I don’t hold it against LJ, but it does amaze me how the NFL media is always so quick to announce these mobile QBs to be game changing.
Also, that game was planned and executed perfectly by Vrabel and his team. They had a great game plan and made great plays. That TD toss by Tannehill was a perfect throw; a great double move by the receiver and what a play call in a big game on the road! Balls of fucking brass. Vrabel and his coaches and players were terrific!
NFL in January is different. The nfl landscape is littered with athletic mvp type QBs that crumble in January. I don’t care anyone says but but these athletic QBs they aren’t very cerebral will struggle against big time defenses in January. The facts are the facts. The history is there for all to see. Jackson might win big one day. But he’s going to need to adjust and adapt. Same rule applies to deshaun watson. These QBs who drop back to pass and immediately go into fight or flight mode, and eschew true pocket play will never go far this time of year. Defenses and coaching are too good. They eat that style up for lunch. Adapt or go the way of so many before you. And eventually the regular season NFL will catch up to them too. This has been happening for decades.
Oooh, a little subtle bit of racism there from the captain of the cheerleading squad.
Athletic QBs are, by definition, less cerebral? I haven't seen you question Jones's brain, yet he's every bit as athletic as Watson. Curious choice of examples of athletic QBs being less cerebral.
Lamar Jackson rocked a 13 on the Wonderlic. It’s not a “subtle hint of racism” — he’s just fucking dumb.
But it seems like they're trying to force the issue with this guy.I don't see superstar at all,and it could have been worse if Tennessee had gone after him a little more.
So this wasn't a superstar season for Lamar?The guy led the league in QBR, had 36TDs/6INTs, completed 66% of his passes, and he ran for 1200+ yards, and another 7 TDs. His MVP is going to be incidental?
But it seems like they're trying to force the issue with this guy.I don't see superstar at all,and it could have been worse if Tennessee had gone after him a little more.
So this wasn't a superstar season for Lamar?The guy led the league in QBR, had 36TDs/6INTs, completed 66% of his passes, and he ran for 1200+ yards, and another 7 TDs. His MVP is going to be incidental?
And "force" what?
Lamar was forced to put the team on his back last night and similarly to his time at Louisville, he was not able to do it all himself.
I don’t agree with you all the time, but the people roasting him here forgot he had 2 perfect passer rating games this year and he’s only the second person to do that I believe.
Funny thing is the same group of people killing him right now are the same people that beat the drum of having a great running game is the key to winning in the NFL. The Ravens were the #1 running team in the league!
RE: RE: RE: RE: Said it 100 times if I said it once Â
NFL in January is different. The nfl landscape is littered with athletic mvp type QBs that crumble in January. I don’t care anyone says but but these athletic QBs they aren’t very cerebral will struggle against big time defenses in January. The facts are the facts. The history is there for all to see. Jackson might win big one day. But he’s going to need to adjust and adapt. Same rule applies to deshaun watson. These QBs who drop back to pass and immediately go into fight or flight mode, and eschew true pocket play will never go far this time of year. Defenses and coaching are too good. They eat that style up for lunch. Adapt or go the way of so many before you. And eventually the regular season NFL will catch up to them too. This has been happening for decades.
Oooh, a little subtle bit of racism there from the captain of the cheerleading squad.
Athletic QBs are, by definition, less cerebral? I haven't seen you question Jones's brain, yet he's every bit as athletic as Watson. Curious choice of examples of athletic QBs being less cerebral.
Lamar Jackson rocked a 13 on the Wonderlic. It’s not a “subtle hint of racism” — he’s just fucking dumb.
You are troll and bring nothing to the table.
I’m a troll? You’re a fucking clown who adds nothing of interest here.
So this wasn't a superstar season for Lamar?The guy led the league in QBR, had 36TDs/6INTs, completed 66% of his passes, and he ran for 1200+ yards, and another 7 TDs. His MVP is going to be incidental?
And "force" what?
1 season doesn't mean he's a superstar,especially in this league.The whole offense is built around him.Kinda reminds me of what they did with Robert Griffin.You should know all about that.
But anyway,every time I watch this guy,I ask my self,"Have they never seen a running quarterback before?".I guess Tennessee finally had enough.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Said it 100 times if I said it once Â
NFL in January is different. The nfl landscape is littered with athletic mvp type QBs that crumble in January. I don’t care anyone says but but these athletic QBs they aren’t very cerebral will struggle against big time defenses in January. The facts are the facts. The history is there for all to see. Jackson might win big one day. But he’s going to need to adjust and adapt. Same rule applies to deshaun watson. These QBs who drop back to pass and immediately go into fight or flight mode, and eschew true pocket play will never go far this time of year. Defenses and coaching are too good. They eat that style up for lunch. Adapt or go the way of so many before you. And eventually the regular season NFL will catch up to them too. This has been happening for decades.
Oooh, a little subtle bit of racism there from the captain of the cheerleading squad.
Athletic QBs are, by definition, less cerebral? I haven't seen you question Jones's brain, yet he's every bit as athletic as Watson. Curious choice of examples of athletic QBs being less cerebral.
Lamar Jackson rocked a 13 on the Wonderlic. It’s not a “subtle hint of racism” — he’s just fucking dumb.
You are troll and bring nothing to the table.
I’m a troll? You’re a fucking clown who adds nothing of interest here.
Why yes you are.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Said it 100 times if I said it once Â
NFL in January is different. The nfl landscape is littered with athletic mvp type QBs that crumble in January. I don’t care anyone says but but these athletic QBs they aren’t very cerebral will struggle against big time defenses in January. The facts are the facts. The history is there for all to see. Jackson might win big one day. But he’s going to need to adjust and adapt. Same rule applies to deshaun watson. These QBs who drop back to pass and immediately go into fight or flight mode, and eschew true pocket play will never go far this time of year. Defenses and coaching are too good. They eat that style up for lunch. Adapt or go the way of so many before you. And eventually the regular season NFL will catch up to them too. This has been happening for decades.
Oooh, a little subtle bit of racism there from the captain of the cheerleading squad.
Athletic QBs are, by definition, less cerebral? I haven't seen you question Jones's brain, yet he's every bit as athletic as Watson. Curious choice of examples of athletic QBs being less cerebral.
Lamar Jackson rocked a 13 on the Wonderlic. It’s not a “subtle hint of racism” — he’s just fucking dumb.
You are troll and bring nothing to the table.
I’m a troll? You’re a fucking clown who adds nothing of interest here.
NFL in January is different. The nfl landscape is littered with athletic mvp type QBs that crumble in January. I don’t care anyone says but but these athletic QBs they aren’t very cerebral will struggle against big time defenses in January. The facts are the facts. The history is there for all to see. Jackson might win big one day. But he’s going to need to adjust and adapt. Same rule applies to deshaun watson. These QBs who drop back to pass and immediately go into fight or flight mode, and eschew true pocket play will never go far this time of year. Defenses and coaching are too good. They eat that style up for lunch. Adapt or go the way of so many before you. And eventually the regular season NFL will catch up to them too. This has been happening for decades.
Oooh, a little subtle bit of racism there from the captain of the cheerleading squad.
Athletic QBs are, by definition, less cerebral? I haven't seen you question Jones's brain, yet he's every bit as athletic as Watson. Curious choice of examples of athletic QBs being less cerebral.
Lamar Jackson rocked a 13 on the Wonderlic. It’s not a “subtle hint of racism” — he’s just fucking dumb.
Dan Marino didn't do a lot better, and Johnny Football had a higher score than Peyton Manning. The Wonderlic is meaningless.
I'll submit Baltimore lost yesterday for a much more basic reason. They haven't played meaningful football in weeks and were out of sync. We've seen THAT happen before with all sorts of teams.
1 season doesn't mean he's a superstar,especially in this league.The whole offense is built around him.Kinda reminds me of what they did with Robert Griffin.You should know all about that.
But anyway,every time I watch this guy,I ask my self,"Have they never seen a running quarterback before?".I guess Tennessee finally had enough.
Of course the entire offense is built around LJax. His unique skills dictate that. And the Ravens deserve credit for not treating LJax as a square peg to try to fit him into some round hole.
Look, if you can't see that he's more than a running QB than there isn't much else to discuss. His job is to score points - and he did that 36X via pass and 7X by running this season. Which will result in the league MVP.
Does he need to continue to hone his passing skills? Sure. He's not a guy you'd use to make a QB textbook or a video on QB fundamentals. But he's getting there. And I like his chances of one day seguing from a pass/run QB to a mobile, passing QB...
still has more playoff appearances than Baker Mayfield, Sam Darnold, Josh Rosen, Josh Allen, Kyler Murray, Daniel Jones, Dwayne Haskins, and Drew Lock combined.
Sound like a asinine fact/statistic? Well, it is. About as asinine as some of the other points on this thread people are trying to make about the results of one playoff game.
don’t care anyone says but but these athletic QBs they aren’t very cerebral will struggle against big time defenses in January
It should read as “but these athletic QBs THAT aren’t very cerebral will struggle.” So maybe you were so quick to play the horse shit race card because “THEY aren’t very cerebral” might give someone the urge to go there, ok, you’re still awful quick to the trigger.
Not every athletic qb is black. Not every athletic qb isn’t cerebral. Happy now?
Yes, the difference between "they" and "that" is very significant. I apologize for jumping to that conclusion, and appreciate you seeing how that typo does dramatically change the implication of your post.
Keep the same energy if Jones is bad in his first two playoff games.
You do realize this board has taken a dump for the past several years on our 2-time SB MVP QB.
Do you really not think Jones is going to be Teflon if he sucks in the playoffs? This place will be Defcon5.
Regarding Jackson, the guy is in likely the best place he can be to succeed. Baltimore has built the offense and gameplan around him. But it is still a gimmicky run-heavy offense that when that running threat becomes neutralized, Jackson isn't going to beat you through the air.
The playoffs every year have strong defenses that can make a player 1-dimensional.
Fatman: I gotta say, you say a lot of stupid shit, however, this was actually a really good post!! Good job!!
Keep the same energy if Jones is bad in his first two playoff games.
You do realize this board has taken a dump for the past several years on our 2-time SB MVP QB.
Do you really not think Jones is going to be Teflon if he sucks in the playoffs? This place will be Defcon5.
Regarding Jackson, the guy is in likely the best place he can be to succeed. Baltimore has built the offense and gameplan around him. But it is still a gimmicky run-heavy offense that when that running threat becomes neutralized, Jackson isn't going to beat you through the air.
The playoffs every year have strong defenses that can make a player 1-dimensional.
Fatman: I gotta say, you say a lot of stupid shit, however, this was actually a really good post!! Good job!!
Especially this, "The playoffs every year have strong defenses that can make a player 1-dimensional".
People are so fucking dumb. I think Lamar is overrated as a player, but judging him off of two playoff losses as a 1st and 2nd year player is really fucking absurd. He's 23 years old and got beat by a team that just beat the best QB & HC of all time.
What has he won? Nothing. Because he's played 2 fucking years in the NFL. He might never win anything. Who knows? Saying stuff like that just makes you look dumb. What QB has won as a rookie or 2nd year player?
Bingo. It’s pathetic/ a lot about people who are taking victory laps. Guys been in the league two freakin years
People are so fucking dumb. I think Lamar is overrated as a player, but judging him off of two playoff losses as a 1st and 2nd year player is really fucking absurd. He's 23 years old and got beat by a team that just beat the best QB & HC of all time.
What has he won? Nothing. Because he's played 2 fucking years in the NFL. He might never win anything. Who knows? Saying stuff like that just makes you look dumb. What QB has won as a rookie or 2nd year player?
Bingo. It’s pathetic/ a lot about people who are taking victory laps. Guys been in the league two freakin years
While I wouldn't call Jackson a failure after two season, hell the guy is likely to be league MVP, his playoff performance was not good. He was only barely over 50% completion percentage. He did have several drops even if some of the passes were inaccurate. His legs are still his meal ticket and they are only going to take him so far and seeing as how he failed to get two first downs on 4th and 1 they let him down. He must improve his passing accuracy. He looked very good on deep balls. He has a very strong arm, but his short passing was pretty awful - some of the ugliest passes since Tim Tebow. I don't know why that is happening. Looks like he is just not trusting his arm to the outside. The balls he throws deep are beautiful. So why is that. I think more confidence will improve his accuracy.
He has a bright future, but he has to work hard to get his accuracy up with a better spiral. He will not progress without improving his throwing.
and I think people are being way too quick to pass judgement.
He is exactly what he has always been...a dynamic running threat and a good thrower to the center of the field. Tenn did a great job of stopping the run and clogging the middle passing lanes and Jackson did struggle a little going to the sidelines but there was also some really good coverage.
Tenn deserves a ton of credit for their defensive gameplan but Jackson is still an absolute weapon who puts a lot of pressure on you. My concern if I was a Ravens fan though are how long his body can take this kind of a pounding. He showed himself to be tough this year though.
In a playoff game though often times you need some luck (Eli to Tyree) or someone to step up in a tough situation and make a play (Eli to Manningham). That's why Eli is a hall of famer.
Can Jackson do that? I still wouldn't bet against it.
The talk of "playoff football" and "playoff defenses" sounds like Â
During the season Jackson had good to excellent performances against KC, NE, HOU, SEA, BUF, and SF. All but KC were wins. Are we saying that those teams weren't trying to win those games at the time like they would be in the playoffs? Sounds ridiculous.
More likely this loss can be attributed to:
- TEN being a hot team playing excellent football
- Baltimore being off after essentially taking two weeks off
- a poor gameplan that saw only 9 runs by Ravens running backs vs. 20 for Jackson and 59 passes; the injury to Ingram was also a factor
The people knocking Jackson would be doing cartwheels if we got half the production and wins from Daniel Jones. Much of the Jackson criticism feels like insecurity and sensitivity over how poorly the Barkley pick worked out.
During the season Jackson had good to excellent performances against KC, NE, HOU, SEA, BUF, and SF. All but KC were wins. Are we saying that those teams weren't trying to win those games at the time like they would be in the playoffs? Sounds ridiculous.
More likely this loss can be attributed to:
- TEN being a hot team playing excellent football
- Baltimore being off after essentially taking two weeks off
- a poor gameplan that saw only 9 runs by Ravens running backs vs. 20 for Jackson and 59 passes; the injury to Ingram was also a factor
The people knocking Jackson would be doing cartwheels if we got half the production and wins from Daniel Jones. Much of the Jackson criticism feels like insecurity and sensitivity over how poorly the Barkley pick worked out.
Really sounds of misplaced nonsense on your part denigrating Barkley.
Jackson had a great year up until he didn't. You'd be better served singing Jackson's praises (there are many for the likely MVP) then knocking Barkley every chance you get. Lamar had a better year than most thought he would.
But he absolutely needs to address his throwing issues and then maybe he would not need to run so much. Granted his legs are a weapon and his advantage. It was fun watching him start and stop on a dime, almost comical watching Titan's defenders trying to herd him and try to tackle him. But do not gloss over his glaring throwing issues.
Yes Ingram's injury hurt, but let's not lose sight that Jackson is very much the best rushing back on that team. Watching the game I did not even notice he was out until they showed him with the wrap on his calf.
And as far as the dig on Jones, let's be clear that Jackson is Baltimore's offense. The entire offense is built around his running/scrambling ability. Jackson and Jones are two completely different players; nobody is Lamar Jackson, nobody is close. The closest is likely Mahomes and well - then there is Mahomes throwing ability vs Jackson's and that is not close.
Jackson is who Jackson is - an immense talent who needs to improve his throwing. There is no need to attempt to denigrate other players to prove your point.
Seems like you are the one trying to tie it to him:
Quote:
The people knocking Jackson would be doing cartwheels if we got half the production and wins from Daniel Jones. Much of the Jackson criticism feels like insecurity and sensitivity over how poorly the Barkley pick worked out.
It has to do with blowback vs. the hype machine. Just like it did with Tebow. Just like it did when people said Cam Newton was doing things nobody has ever seen. When you come to BBI and there was a thread started each week about Jackson's greatness, the reaction to that isn't about Barkley, it is wondering why there is the obsession with Jackson (which ironically probably points more to those threads starters trying to tie this to Barkley).
I just don't get why people need to crown guys before they take the crown. Why do we always have to be told we are watching the best things ever? Do we get a bonus for one-upping things? That's what this boils down to for many people.
But it was amusing for you to pull up last years' SD-Ravens playoff thread last week and call out those criticizing Jackson. Did that have to do with Barkley as well?
The people knocking Jackson would be doing cartwheels if we got half the production and wins from Daniel Jones. Much of the Jackson criticism feels like insecurity and sensitivity over how poorly the Barkley pick worked out.
I'm high on both and I don't see them as tied together...we could easily have traded back up into the first and got Lamar and had both so that's fairly irrelevant. We just missed on the eval which is fair, many other teams did too.
That being said, I think it is a fair eval to say Jackson is always going to be a huge risk to pick up an injury. He took way too many hits in that game and his limitations did show up a bit but agree, let's not apply one game judgements to a career. Jackson is doing great things.
as much as anything that the Ravens need to improve skill positions. Bills probably feel the same way. you can only go so far without a TE or WR that is deemed a big threat. Even the pats realize this after losing gronk.
Jackson is a fantastic talent and still limited as a passer. Titans contained him well and forced him to pass and he simply isn't very effective.
Now that doesn't mean we can't recognize how great he was this year. We can and should - it was quite the season. It stops there though, no reason to crown him him, but I do think there's reason to get excited about how he can grow as a player. I usually don't find any harm in thinking X will be the next great player, doesn't harm anyone talking about it.
Linking this back to Barkley is so stupid. I define bringing Barkley up in a "Lamar Jackson doesn't walk on water" thread as insecure.
And nothing he did this year should be taken away from him. However, he will have the cloud over his head of poor playoff performances. Yes, I get it, it is only two games and one when he was a rookie. But for having such a great regular season only to come up small when it counted will be held against him.
Seems like you are the one trying to tie it to him:
Quote:
The people knocking Jackson would be doing cartwheels if we got half the production and wins from Daniel Jones. Much of the Jackson criticism feels like insecurity and sensitivity over how poorly the Barkley pick worked out.
It has to do with blowback vs. the hype machine. Just like it did with Tebow. Just like it did when people said Cam Newton was doing things nobody has ever seen. When you come to BBI and there was a thread started each week about Jackson's greatness, the reaction to that isn't about Barkley, it is wondering why there is the obsession with Jackson (which ironically probably points more to those threads starters trying to tie this to Barkley).
I just don't get why people need to crown guys before they take the crown. Why do we always have to be told we are watching the best things ever? Do we get a bonus for one-upping things? That's what this boils down to for many people.
But it was amusing for you to pull up last years' SD-Ravens playoff thread last week and call out those criticizing Jackson. Did that have to do with Barkley as well?
Jackson is a fantastic talent and still limited as a passer. Titans contained him well and forced him to pass and he simply isn't very effective.
Now that doesn't mean we can't recognize how great he was this year. We can and should - it was quite the season. It stops there though, no reason to crown him him, but I do think there's reason to get excited about how he can grow as a player. I usually don't find any harm in thinking X will be the next great player, doesn't harm anyone talking about it.
Linking this back to Barkley is so stupid. I define bringing Barkley up in a "Lamar Jackson doesn't walk on water" thread as insecure.
Of course, Jackson is the league MVP. He had a phenomenal year.
Why are we hating on Jackson? He seems to have achieved a lot in a short time? Am I missing something? Is he a dick? He seems to work hard, his game has improved since entered the league? Has he already peeked? If there were only some explanation for hate. Can anyone make sense of this?
During the season Jackson had good to excellent performances against KC, NE, HOU, SEA, BUF, and SF. All but KC were wins. Are we saying that those teams weren't trying to win those games at the time like they would be in the playoffs? Sounds ridiculous.
More likely this loss can be attributed to:
- TEN being a hot team playing excellent football
- Baltimore being off after essentially taking two weeks off
- a poor gameplan that saw only 9 runs by Ravens running backs vs. 20 for Jackson and 59 passes; the injury to Ingram was also a factor
The people knocking Jackson would be doing cartwheels if we got half the production and wins from Daniel Jones. Much of the Jackson criticism feels like insecurity and sensitivity over how poorly the Barkley pick worked out.
I agree with most of this. I don't agree with the last sentence, I think the motivation is worse.
Terps is still banging the "Giants should have taken Jackson over Barkley" drum...
That drum doesn't need to be banged anymore. It should be obvious to everyone at this point.
What I'm pointing out is that there's a lot of insecurity over the way things have worked out since that draft and the controversial pick of a running back 2nd overall. That insecurity is what's led the usual suspects to knock Jackson when he finally gave them an opportunity to knock him. It's also why the same usual suspects never miss a shot to knock Darnold.
And to answer FMIC above, no one is "crowning" Jackson anything. The guy is going to win MVP, and QB'd an offense that scored 33 points per game. No one's putting him in the HOF yet, which is more than what I can say about people here talking about Barkley - who I've seen referred to as a future HOFer and compared to Barry freaking Sanders.
If Daniel Jones led the Giants to a 14-2 record and 33 points per game, would posters here be saying we should hold our horses on him? Of course not...Jones has a 3-9 record as a starter and people are already saying he's our franchise QB for 10-15 years.
What I'm pointing out is that there's a lot of insecurity over the way things have worked out since that draft and the controversial pick of a running back 2nd overall. That insecurity is what's led the usual suspects to knock Jackson when he finally gave them an opportunity to knock him. It's also why the same usual suspects never miss a shot to knock Darnold.
Insecurity?? How about the plethora of posters who categorized Darnold as a can't miss prospect. Who said that not taking a QB will set the franchise back years? You literally have had some posters like Mook and Josh complain for two years that Darnold wasn't selected.
People don't like buying into false narratives and hyperbole. It really shouldn't be that much more complicated. You'll have blowback when these things happen - similar to when we were told Cam Newton was doing things we haven't seen before (a topic you had a lot of fun with)
I mean, there was a motivation last week to repost the Chargers-Ravens playoff thread to make snide comments about how wrong the posters were on their takes on Jackson, right? It isn't nearly as funny this week, is it? you know why? Because many of those very same talking points held true for a second playoff game.
Who said that not taking a QB will set the franchise back years?
Well it cost us two years, so...
As for the Chargers thread, it's still very funny. Jackson is called "not an NFL QB" or something to that effect, and then he wins MVP and 1st team All-Pro as the QB of the highest scoring offense in the NFL. Definitely still funny.
But even funnier than that is that if he were a Giant, would you be saying the same thing? Of course not. You'd be preaching patience, as you do for the actual Giants which have been a disaster.
Above everything that's what drives me nuts. The blue glasses.
Why are we hating on Jackson? He seems to have achieved a lot in a short time? Am I missing something? Is he a dick? He seems to work hard, his game has improved since entered the league? Has he already peeked? If there were only some explanation for hate. Can anyone make sense of this?
I like LJax. He's had a historic regular season campaign playing QB in the NFL in a way I've never seen.
But I don't actually interpret the criticism of LJax as hate. There is legitimate argument if he has the ability to be a pure passer when that's what is required to win a game. Because right now LJax looks like a race horse that has the best chance to win when on the lead, going wire to wire.
He's going to be a great case study going forward.
You are a tough guy to understand. You are now preaching patience with Jackson, but yet, you would already be looking to draft his replacement so you don't have to pay him in free agency.
has very little similarities to last year's loss IMO. People are acting like the Titans cracked some code. But Jackson still threw for 365 yards and ran for 143. Last year he couldn't get anything going but this year that wasn't the case.
They moved the ball all day but the Titans produced turnovers, the most important one being the first pick which was a bit fortunate. And then they got two 4th down stops which basically turned the game after the Ravens had literally not been stopped on 4th down all season. They played bend but don't break. Credit to them, they got the win. But it's nothing like what the Chargers were able to do last year.
The talking points in that Ravens/Chargers thread look as silly to me now as they did before Saturday night.
You are a tough guy to understand. You are now preaching patience with Jackson, but yet, you would already be looking to draft his replacement so you don't have to pay him in free agency.
I'm not preaching patience with Jackson. I don't have to, he had a great year and Baltimore is a competitor with him now.
You are a tough guy to understand. You are now preaching patience with Jackson, but yet, you would already be looking to draft his replacement so you don't have to pay him in free agency.
I'm not preaching patience with Jackson. I don't have to, he had a great year and Baltimore is a competitor with him now.
Unfortunately, he now has this playoff albatross around his neck. And it's not going away.
Tennessee was just the wrong match-up for the Ravens. That defense was designed on the back-end to deal with the Chiefs, Pats, Texans, etc. Teams with QBs who can spread it out and force you to cover multiple passing packages. But they are not big up front and go abused by an OL who is hitting on all cylinders right now.
are in the playoffs, you are going to face defenses like that every year. If you are a player that an opposing D can neutralize, then there will be struggles.
what SD and TENN both did to Jackson is to force him to make throws that he struggles at. Contain the run and force things outside. Not all defenses can do that.
There are throws he struggles with. I've said that from the beginning with him...I must have said "No one is going to confuse him with Drew Brees" several times.
Jackson left a lot of plays out there. The Ravens on the whole looked like an unmade bed...they reminded me of how the Giants came out after (essentially) a 2 week break against the Eagles in the '08 playoffs. But yeah, the playoff albatross is a fair point for Jackson now. Definitely.
It doesn't make the comments about him as an NFL QB any less ridiculous, though.
Why are we hating on Jackson? He seems to have achieved a lot in a short time? Am I missing something? Is he a dick? He seems to work hard, his game has improved since entered the league? Has he already peeked? If there were only some explanation for hate. Can anyone make sense of this?
I like LJax. He's had a historic regular season campaign playing QB in the NFL in a way I've never seen.
But I don't actually interpret the criticism of LJax as hate. There is legitimate argument if he has the ability to be a pure passer when that's what is required to win a game. Because right now LJax looks like a race horse that has the best chance to win when on the lead, going wire to wire.
He's going to be a great case study going forward.
Every team has better chance to win with the lead...
We have seen growth in his passing game year one to year 2.
More than a little?
Year 2 offensive production for him was insane.
I find it more than a little odd we are criticizing him for the the team's loss. I can find a lot of worse playoff games than Jackson's yesterday from HoF pocket passing QBs.
I think you have to be more than impressed with his career so far if you are fair.
You are a tough guy to understand. You are now preaching patience with Jackson, but yet, you would already be looking to draft his replacement so you don't have to pay him in free agency.
I'm not preaching patience with Jackson. I don't have to, he had a great year and Baltimore is a competitor with him now.
Unfortunately, he now has this playoff albatross around his neck. And it's not going away.
Tennessee was just the wrong match-up for the Ravens. That defense was designed on the back-end to deal with the Chiefs, Pats, Texans, etc. Teams with QBs who can spread it out and force you to cover multiple passing packages. But they are not big up front and go abused by an OL who is hitting on all cylinders right now.
He has a playoff Albatross? Pretty sure Eli Manning was 0-2 in his first 2 playoff games. Peyton started off 0-3. And a shit ton of other QB's. He's an amazing player. Somebody has to lose.
are in the playoffs, you are going to face defenses like that every year. If you are a player that an opposing D can neutralize, then there will be struggles.
what SD and TENN both did to Jackson is to force him to make throws that he struggles at. Contain the run and force things outside. Not all defenses can do that.
Oddly enough, I think the Titan Ds won with their back seven. Their safeties Byard and Ryan were great being aggressive and attacking the LOS to try to manage Lamar's running. And then their corners showed up, especially in the red zone...
e has a playoff Albatross? Pretty sure Eli Manning was 0-2 in his first 2 playoff games. Peyton started off 0-3. And a shit ton of other QB's. He's an amazing player. Somebody has to lose.
I'm sure there are more example than just Peyton. But this is back to back years losing at home, and this year as the top seed. So, yes, an albatross. And it's a common thing for great players who have yet to excel in the playoffs...
are in the playoffs, you are going to face defenses like that every year. If you are a player that an opposing D can neutralize, then there will be struggles.
what SD and TENN both did to Jackson is to force him to make throws that he struggles at. Contain the run and force things outside. Not all defenses can do that.
Oddly enough, I think the Titan Ds won with their back seven. Their safeties Byard and Ryan were great being aggressive and attacking the LOS to try to manage Lamar's running. And then their corners showed up, especially in the red zone...
Agreed. Ingram being limited was a huge factor too. Baltimore abandoned the traditional run way too early.
Every team has better chance to win with the lead...
We have seen growth in his passing game year one to year 2.
More than a little?
Year 2 offensive production for him was insane.
I find it more than a little odd we are criticizing him for the the team's loss. I can find a lot of worse playoff games than Jackson's yesterday from HoF pocket passing QBs.
I think you have to be more than impressed with his career so far if you are fair.
I have raved - no pun intended - about LJax's play all year. He had a remarkable year.
But I think it's fair to ask these tough questions about his playoff performance.
This year it seemed like it was all system go for the Ravens...
Because we would not be able to put the team around him to succeed right away like Baltimore could.
That says something about the Giants, doesn't it?
Besides, not going after Jackson (or the other QBs) was about setting up the third or fourth iteration of the Eli Revenge Tour. It was always about Eli.
it isn't just here. You could put Jackson on probably more than half of the teams out there and there would be problems. He's in an ideal situation with a team that has wisely built the offense around him.
Throw him on a team with a bad OL or a coach tied to a scheme and Jackson is going to be just another guy who has to scramble to save his life.
RE: RE: Jackson is LUCKY we, and many other teams, passed on him. Â
Because we would not be able to put the team around him to succeed right away like Baltimore could.
That says something about the Giants, doesn't it?
Besides, not going after Jackson (or the other QBs) was about setting up the third or fourth iteration of the Eli Revenge Tour. It was always about Eli.
It's simply a difference of opinion of roster construction.
I believe Saquon Barkley is a piece to build around. You don't. Doesn't make either point right or wrong.
The point is, for all this talk of the Giants getting set back, their CURRENT situation wouldn't be much different regardless of who we did or didn't take at #2 overall in 2018.
it isn't just here. You could put Jackson on probably more than half of the teams out there and there would be problems. He's in an ideal situation with a team that has wisely built the offense around him.
Throw him on a team with a bad OL or a coach tied to a scheme and Jackson is going to be just another guy who has to scramble to save his life.
The older I get, the more I see that with a lot of guys.
Would Mahomes still be the Mahomes we've come to know if he was drafted by the Bears at #2 overall? Or would he be just a guy.
To this point Barkley hasn't been a piece to build around. Jackson, as you and FMIC have pointed out, has been a piece for Baltimore to build around. The piece, actually.
And now, based on the Elliott and Gurley contracts, the Giants are a year away from resetting the RB market with Barkley's contract...even though there is overwhelming evidence that paying RBs big money is bad business. We'd have been better off drafting Jackson and building around him the way Baltimore has. What was stopping us?
You keep saying a year away, Barkley's rookie deal is 4 years plus the option. Are they going to pay him before the option year? Since he is already being paid as a top RB, I can see an extension before year 5, but not sooner.
That means you have two more seasons of Barkley under the rookie deal.
You keep saying a year away, Barkley's rookie deal is 4 years plus the option. Are they going to pay him before the option year? Since he is already being paid as a top RB, I can see an extension before year 5, but not sooner.
That means you have two more seasons of Barkley under the rookie deal.
Gurley and Elliott got their new contacts after year 3. I guess it's possible Barkley won't use that as the standard, but why wouldn't he?
To this point Barkley hasn't been a piece to build around. Jackson, as you and FMIC have pointed out, has been a piece for Baltimore to build around. The piece, actually.
And now, based on the Elliott and Gurley contracts, the Giants are a year away from resetting the RB market with Barkley's contract...even though there is overwhelming evidence that paying RBs big money is bad business. We'd have been better off drafting Jackson and building around him the way Baltimore has. What was stopping us?
They tweaked around him. There was no build required. They had a solid core.
We were not in that position, based on 10 years of bad drafting leading up to that pick.
How long do you think it would have taken Jackson to be functional with our roster in 2018?
If you're saying Jackson on the Giants wouldn't have worked because they've been badly managed and coached (like the Redskins, Jets, Bengals), I agree. But picking him would have at least been a different direction than what they opted to do - try to build another run around Eli. The road they actually chose was the worst one, as has been borne out by them being the worst team in the NFL over those two years.
Had they drafted Jackson and made an honest effort to build a team around his talent, they'd no doubt be in a better place today...which is essentially starting from zero with a new coach.
If they had drafted Jackson, with Shurmur as coach, and the OL was in the state it was, we are still likely looking at a terrible season, with the HC being fired and similar fallout.
That was my argumentation when people were saying if we picked Darnold we'd only have growing pains year 1, which people claimed they'd have patience for and then full takeoff in year 2. Ask the Jets how that theory sounds.
A lot of you guys like to throw around the "build around Eli" mantra, but this team likely is still in a similar situation if they cut Eli and drafted a QB two years ago, and then we are absent Barkley and Jones and there's little chance in hell we'd have Jackson. It would likely be Darnold and a pass rusher.
If you're saying Jackson on the Giants wouldn't have worked because they've been badly managed and coached (like the Redskins, Jets, Bengals), I agree. But picking him would have at least been a different direction than what they opted to do - try to build another run around Eli. The road they actually chose was the worst one, as has been borne out by them being the worst team in the NFL over those two years.
Had they drafted Jackson and made an honest effort to build a team around his talent, they'd no doubt be in a better place today...which is essentially starting from zero with a new coach.
Well what would "an honest effort to build a team around his talent" look like? What would they have done differently?
They still needed an o-line. They still needed a d-line. Sh-t, they need everything. I'm not sure what an honest effort to build around Jackson would look like. Not to mention, what would be be doing in the meantime, besides getting killed on a weekly basis because he was struggling to pass the ball?
Step one would have been to release Eli at the end of 2017, so the whole scenario is a non-starter. But are you asking for a step by step of what could have been done in the draft and free agency? I can do that, but then I'll just be accused of using hindsight.
that's because it is exactly what it would be. Unless you profess to know what DG and Shurmur would have done because they were the ones involved. You can't just say you'd draft Nelson and Jackson and think that was a likely scenario.
Step one would have been to release Eli at the end of 2017, so the whole scenario is a non-starter. But are you asking for a step by step of what could have been done in the draft and free agency? I can do that, but then I'll just be accused of using hindsight.
Well, the Ravens didn't cut Flacco outright. He started well into Jackson's first season.
that's because it is exactly what it would be. Unless you profess to know what DG and Shurmur would have done because they were the ones involved. You can't just say you'd draft Nelson and Jackson and think that was a likely scenario.
We knew at the time what the Giants were likely to do...draft Barkley because they weren't going to release Eli. Let's not pretend they're a hard team to read...I first brought up Daniel Jones at #6 in February.
There wasn't a snowball's chance in hell they were picking Jackson at #2, #34, or anywhere else.
Step one would have been to release Eli at the end of 2017, so the whole scenario is a non-starter. But are you asking for a step by step of what could have been done in the draft and free agency? I can do that, but then I'll just be accused of using hindsight.
Well, the Ravens didn't cut Flacco outright. He started well into Jackson's first season.
And that was a mistake by the Ravens, which they corrected in time before they lost their season.
Step one would have been to release Eli at the end of 2017, so the whole scenario is a non-starter. But are you asking for a step by step of what could have been done in the draft and free agency? I can do that, but then I'll just be accused of using hindsight.
Well, the Ravens didn't cut Flacco outright. He started well into Jackson's first season.
And that was a mistake by the Ravens, which they corrected in time before they lost their season.
Well were the Ravens going all in on Joe by not taking Jackson with their 1st round pick, and instead taking a TE and then trading back up at the end of the draft?
NFL in January is different. The nfl landscape is littered with athletic mvp type QBs that crumble in January. I don’t care anyone says but but these athletic QBs they aren’t very cerebral will struggle against big time defenses in January. The facts are the facts. The history is there for all to see. Jackson might win big one day. But he’s going to need to adjust and adapt. Same rule applies to deshaun watson. These QBs who drop back to pass and immediately go into fight or flight mode, and eschew true pocket play will never go far this time of year. Defenses and coaching are too good. They eat that style up for lunch. Adapt or go the way of so many before you. And eventually the regular season NFL will catch up to them too. This has been happening for decades.
Jackson isn't very cerebral? You're kidding, right? There's a remarkable amount of dumb shit posted on this thread
I can't explain why the Ravens started the season with Flacco. Like Eli, he had fallen off a cliff. And like with Eli, retaining him was a huge error. The Ravens learned and corrected their error much more quickly.
And just to follow up on my post about not drafting him with their 1st Â
That to me indicates a little luck on their part, too.
He wasn't good enough for them to take him at 25, but he was good value sitting there at the end of the round so they traded back up and got him.
If they had that level of conviction in him to cut their QB outright, they didn't show it. They ran a pretty big risk by letting him drop to the end of the round. So their is some luck on their part, too.
1. So you'd asked above what the Giants could have done differently. I won't go into a whole range of hypothetical draft picks, but I'll say this: from March 2018 to March 2020 the Giants will have spent $45.4M in cap space on Eli Manning. Had they released him between December 2017 and March 2018, they would have saved about $33M in cap space over those two seasons. That money alone could have rebuilt an entire OL from free agents alone. The average NFL spending on OL is $33.3M. That's for an entire offensive line. In case you're curious - NYG is 9th in the NFL in OL spending with $38M. BAL is 17th with $32.1M.
2. I made this point a couple weeks ago...why is the idea of the Giants drafting Jackson at #2 so insane? They drafted Daniel Jones at #6 a year later. Their college careers compared (each had three years as a starter):
I think drafting Jackson over Darnold, Allen, and Rosen would have been shocking to say the least.
Secondly, maybe the Giants were scouting a passer, and not a hybrid like Jackson. Maybe they wanted a more polished passer? Who knows? Jackson has a lot of work to do in the passing department while Jones looked ready to go as a passer very early.
Let me ask you this question... All things being the same... Roster, coaches, surrounding cast, etc... Exact same.... Who's the better QB on THIS roster? Jones or Jackson? There you might find your answer to why the Giants would take Jones at #6 and not Jackson at #2.
Jackson is incapable of being a good QB outside Baltimore? Or the Giants are incapable of utilizing an athletic QB?
And to be fair the Giants' offense was largely pretty poor with Jones at quarterback, so it's not as if Jackson would have a high bar to overcome.
These are two players on completely different levels. One's a complete question mark, the other is about to be the NFL MVP.
I'm saying exactly what I said before. Baltimore was a perfect landing spot for Jackson.
They had everything ready to go and plug him in. Great o-line, great defense, established run game. They just came off a 9-7 season when they drafted him.
We are/were the complete opposite of that. Horrible o-line, no defense, no running game. We had nothing.
It's pretty clear to me why Jackson could be successful in Baltimore and not so successful in New York.
In New York, he would have been required to make plays read defenses and make plays through the passing game. That wasn't really required of him in year one in Baltimore. They also tweaked further around his skills this year. Not every team can run the offense that they ran, just like every team couldn't run the wildcat. It's not dissimilar from what the Skins did with RG3 under Shanahan. And I know that any mention of RG3 rankles people in a comparison, but they have/had similar skillsets and there's probably a reason RG3 is the backup in Baltimore.
that Jackson has only played 10 more games than Jones, is only 5 months older, and completely blew Jones out of the water this year as a passer...right?
This is the kind of thing that is tough to take seriously. This is the blue glasses I'm talking about.
You want the one hitter quitter to come in on a rookie deal, light it up, and move on.
I can appreciate your outside of the box thinking, but I'm still looking for the longer term solution as the way to build my team.
Lamar Jackson is having an incredible, MVP season. Now, will he break the mold and not flame out like all of the others that have lit the league on fire before him in similar styles? Or will he stand the test of time.
You want the one hitter quitter to come in on a rookie deal, light it up, and move on.
I can appreciate your outside of the box thinking, but I'm still looking for the longer term solution as the way to build my team.
Lamar Jackson is having an incredible, MVP season. Now, will he break the mold and not flame out like all of the others that have lit the league on fire before him in similar styles? Or will he stand the test of time.
Guess we'll have to wait and see.
I want the best possible option at quarterback. Every year. More often than not that's going to be a guy in his rookie deal, unless he is absolutely exceptional.
I don't see the point in longevity at QB for longevity's sake. It's usually counterproductive, and it's unnecessary given the way offensive football has changed in college and the NFL.
If injuries are your concern, Daniel Jones missed more games to injury this season than Jackson has since high school (0).
In 2019 Jackson was a better passer than Daniel Jones and a better rusher than Saquon Barkley while missing zero games...both Jones and Barkley missed what, 2 or 3 games each?
NFL in January is different. The nfl landscape is littered with athletic mvp type QBs that crumble in January. I don’t care anyone says but but these athletic QBs they aren’t very cerebral will struggle against big time defenses in January. The facts are the facts. The history is there for all to see. Jackson might win big one day. But he’s going to need to adjust and adapt. Same rule applies to deshaun watson. These QBs who drop back to pass and immediately go into fight or flight mode, and eschew true pocket play will never go far this time of year. Defenses and coaching are too good. They eat that style up for lunch. Adapt or go the way of so many before you. And eventually the regular season NFL will catch up to them too. This has been happening for decades.
Jackson isn't very cerebral? You're kidding, right? There's a remarkable amount of dumb shit posted on this thread
How was that dumb shit? Dude score a fucking 13 on his wonderlic. He isn't very smart, tremendous athlete, but Elon Musk he is not.
If injuries are your concern, Daniel Jones missed more games to injury this season than Jackson has since high school (0).
In 2019 Jackson was a better passer than Daniel Jones and a better rusher than Saquon Barkley while missing zero games...both Jones and Barkley missed what, 2 or 3 games each?
Better passer than Jones...don't push it. He is not a better passer than Jones.
If injuries are your concern, Daniel Jones missed more games to injury this season than Jackson has since high school (0).
In 2019 Jackson was a better passer than Daniel Jones and a better rusher than Saquon Barkley while missing zero games...both Jones and Barkley missed what, 2 or 3 games each?
Better passer than Jones...don't push it. He is not a better passer than Jones.
When Jones learns any pocket presence, throws for a YPA of 7.8, and has a 36/6 TD/INT ratio we can talk about him being in Jackson's league as a passer.
If injuries are your concern, Daniel Jones missed more games to injury this season than Jackson has since high school (0).
In 2019 Jackson was a better passer than Daniel Jones and a better rusher than Saquon Barkley while missing zero games...both Jones and Barkley missed what, 2 or 3 games each?
Better passer than Jones...don't push it. He is not a better passer than Jones.
Jones certainly looks like a better passer because he resembles more of the text book style. And he has better mechanics by a significant margin. LJax tends to get very flat footed and uses much less lower body to throw. Throws a lot with just his arm.
But from an actual production standpoint, it's not even close. LJax.
If injuries are your concern, Daniel Jones missed more games to injury this season than Jackson has since high school (0).
In 2019 Jackson was a better passer than Daniel Jones and a better rusher than Saquon Barkley while missing zero games...both Jones and Barkley missed what, 2 or 3 games each?
Better passer than Jones...don't push it. He is not a better passer than Jones.
When Jones learns any pocket presence, throws for a YPA of 7.8, and has a 36/6 TD/INT ratio we can talk about him being in Jackson's league as a passer.
Right now, it isn't close.
Stats yes he has stats on his side. But I never saw Jones look like that show against Tennessee. Closest was the 3 INT game and he wasn't heaving end over end passes. Jackson is a product of a VG team, built to take advantage of his incredible run skills which hold LBs and safeties to defend the run.
Jackson is successful, he is fun to watch and he throws a nice deep ball as well as intermediate pass down the middle. But when was the last time you saw that many ducks, floaters, wobblers by an NFL QB(Billy Kilmer?). The crazy thing is he clearly can throw a nice ball. He is not a finished product, but what happens in a couple years when he slows down. Will he have corrected his passing flaws?
You know, the road of the last 10 years is littered with..... Â
guys that had insane one off, MVP caliber type years that fizzled out.
They were all supposed to change the game, they were all doing things nobody ever saw before, and they all fell short of winning a championship (which Terps you said is ultimately all that matters), and then the league adjusted and it was over.
RG3 in 2012
Kaepernick in 2012
Cam Newton in 2015
These guys blazed through the regular season, two made it to Superbowls, but ultimately couldn't overcome the teams they played that ran the ball well and played good defense. RG3 was hurt, but it was clear his style was not sustainable without learning to be a pure passer.
Will Lamar Jackson break the mold of what has come before? Remains to be seen. But so far, he's run into the same problems as the other guys. Teams that rush the ball really well and play really good defense neutralized him in the playoffs.
If anything, what these playoffs have shown us and reminded us of..... Â
you don't need a gimmick to win. Playing stout defense, and running the ball and controlling the line of scrimmage still matter a lot. And it still wins consistently.
Jackson is a dynamic QB because he can run. He is not a great passer.
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You do realize
Go Terps : 1/13/2020 6:15 pm : link : reply
that Jackson has only played 10 more games than Jones, is only 5 months older, and completely blew Jones out of the water this year as a passer...right?
The scheme and his ability to run opened up a lot of plays. His TD % passing the ball was 9%. But he's not a very good passer. Put him on the Giants, and he's scrambling for his life, and has to throw to the outside.
If we can't just admit that Jackson landed in one of the best spots for his style and that Baltimore has done what they can to build around that style, I don't know what else to say. He would not have that type of fit here or with several other teams.
to what Jones did with the Giants is just a brutal take. Its something I wouldn't expect from you, but here we are. Its like you are purposely ignoring the why and the how, and just posting numbers - very odd.
Jackson is a great talent, but he is not a good passer yet. He takes advantage of less double coverage due to his running ability (hats off to him, he should be doing this) and frequently gets to throw to open receivers because teams typically key in on him once he looks like he's breaking the pocket.
And then there's Jones. He's more accurate, has plenty of arm, but doesn't get the benefit of his running game or good protection so he's routinely throwing into tight coverage (there were stats on this all season long about how small the WR separation is compared to other teams). Jones fumbles a lot, so did Jackson his rookie year (almost identical fumble rates).
He’s one of 2 people to have a perfect passer rating twice in a season.
He’s one of 2 people to have a perfect passer rating twice in a season.
This is his second horrific game in the playoffs.
Also who in the actual fuck gives two shits about games with a perfect passer rating? The answer is no one
Here are the facts. Two years in a row he’s shit the bed in the playoffs. Period.
After the first pick (which I don't think was on Jackson), I said to him, "We're going to find out a lot about Jackson because playoff football is a lot different than regular-season football. And how he responds will be interesting."
I think where Jackson pressed the most wasn't throwing the ball but the two 4th down plays. He botched both. And because of that, he was a huge reason why they lost.
But this was a bad match-up for the Baltimore D. They are built on the back end to deal with teams like the Pats, Chiefs, etc.
Their DL is average/average plus. And was completely outclassed by the OL and running game of the Titans...
Fumble did not help.
After the first pick (which I don't think was on Jackson), I said to him, "We're going to find out a lot about Jackson because playoff football is a lot different than regular-season football. And how he responds will be interesting."
I think where Jackson pressed the most wasn't throwing the ball but the two 4th down plays. He botched both. And because of that, he was a huge reason why they lost.
The offense wasn’t the same once Engram went down. They could just key in on Lamar at that point.
It would have been a better game if Engram didn’t reactivate his injury.
But this was a bad match-up for the Baltimore D. They are built on the back end to deal with teams like the Pats, Chiefs, etc.
Their DL is average/average plus. And was completely outclassed by the OL and running game of the Titans...
Bingo. The Titans OL owned their asses.
I think the season long lickspittle worship for a guy that hasn't won a thing yet is brutal. I'm grateful I won't have to hear how he is reinventing football at least for a few months.
It was all about, as Cowher put it immediately afterwards, Tennessee dominating on both sides of the LOS.
It was about blocking, defeating blocks, and great tackling. It was about individuals playing as a team and each manhandling his responsibility.
Yeah a great big fast durable back like Henry helps make that execution pay off, big time, but it starts up front on both sides of the ball. When Jackson tried to convert that 2nd 4th and one, Tennessee's DL successfully moved the entire LOS two yards backwards; Jackson had nowhere to run, and nowhere to hide.
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.
Fumble did not help.
And missing on two 4th and 1's really hurt. I think it was foolish to go for the first one, in their own territory early. But of course, they've been money on converting those all year I believe.
Jackson is a great talent, I'm not sure he'll be proficient at the all the necessary throws but he's a great player.
The thing to watch is the punishment he begins to take as his career enters a third year. He's extremely phsyical and strong.....but NFL defenders bring it and has they start to chip away at him, you could see his game diminish more quickly.
This isn’t a single loss. Its the second loss in the playoffs for Jackson in which he’s been fucking awful. The only difference is, this year, Baltimore was a one seed.
So much of the NFL is a handful of plays, and when they are made.
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Shouldn’t be reading too much into a single loss in a guys second year. If Daniel Jones has an NFL MVP year next year, secures a first round bye and then takes a dump in the divisional round...how should we react?
This isn’t a single loss. Its the second loss in the playoffs for Jackson in which he’s been fucking awful. The only difference is, this year, Baltimore was a one seed.
He was 22 and 23 at the time of these losses. Our guy, who I really like, wasn’t even in the playoffs his rookie year.
It is crazy how the takes change week to week. It goes to show you, know one really knows anything. One of the better talent evaluators missed completely on him as a QB.
doesnt make enough plays from pocket with his arm currently
needs to work on accuracy. i hear 6 drops but there were SEVERAL horrible passes
No you’re right. He’s been phenomenal in the playoffs.
Christ.
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are absolutely brutal.
It is crazy how the takes change week to week. It goes to show you, know one really knows anything. One of the better talent evaluators missed completely on him as a QB.
Yeah. Totally missed. What has he actually won again?
What he is may be good enough for the fans. Maybe it’s good enough for the Ravens. But I don’t ever see it being good enough to win a championship. Maybe if they build a 00 Ravens D and he simply never has to throw they can win.
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In comment 14774374 Kyle in NY said:
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are absolutely brutal.
It is crazy how the takes change week to week. It goes to show you, know one really knows anything. One of the better talent evaluators missed completely on him as a QB.
Yeah. Totally missed. What has he actually won again?
If winning is all you look at, then a lot of QB are not great. Marino never won a SB. In reference to him needing to play WR instead QB, I feel he has proven he can play QB in the NFL. I assume you are not referring to what Polian has won.
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are absolutely brutal.
No you’re right. He’s been phenomenal in the playoffs.
Christ.
I’m not sure I understand what it is you think you’ve proven here. Jackson is going to win the MVP, he’s vastly exceeded expectations already. Sure, he’d trade that MVP in a heartbeat for a win tonight and a shot at the super bowl this season. He’s 0-2 in the playoffs. He was awful last season and not good tonight, although he didn’t get a ton of help. But two playoff losses does not validate the fact that you’ve likely been completely wrong about this player overall.
Very curious your issue with him, why you find the need to start a thread floating about the playoff loss of a non rival player?
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In comment 14774396 Darth Paul said:
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In comment 14774374 Kyle in NY said:
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are absolutely brutal.
It is crazy how the takes change week to week. It goes to show you, know one really knows anything. One of the better talent evaluators missed completely on him as a QB.
Yeah. Totally missed. What has he actually won again?
If winning is all you look at, then a lot of QB are not great. Marino never won a SB. In reference to him needing to play WR instead QB, I feel he has proven he can play QB in the NFL. I assume you are not referring to what Polian has won.
Dan Marino actually made it to a Super Bowl so, try again. Also, we’re seriously bringing up a Marino/Jackson argument? Really?
Jesus fucking christ.
He’s one of 2 people to have a perfect passer rating twice in a season.
Losing to a 6 seed in the playoffs while turning over the ball three times and barely completed half his passes doesn't diminish what he's done this season?
I'm sure Baltimore is super happy tonight that LJ lit it up in the regular season.
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In comment 14774374 Kyle in NY said:
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are absolutely brutal.
No you’re right. He’s been phenomenal in the playoffs.
Christ.
I’m not sure I understand what it is you think you’ve proven here. Jackson is going to win the MVP, he’s vastly exceeded expectations already. Sure, he’d trade that MVP in a heartbeat for a win tonight and a shot at the super bowl this season. He’s 0-2 in the playoffs. He was awful last season and not good tonight, although he didn’t get a ton of help. But two playoff losses does not validate the fact that you’ve likely been completely wrong about this player overall.
Very curious your issue with him, why you find the need to start a thread floating about the playoff loss of a non rival player?
The OP is a troll from around the draft and he’s made it this long. They all come out when it’s convenient and around the same times during the of year.
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In comment 14774402 Hsilwek92 said:
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In comment 14774396 Darth Paul said:
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In comment 14774374 Kyle in NY said:
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are absolutely brutal.
It is crazy how the takes change week to week. It goes to show you, know one really knows anything. One of the better talent evaluators missed completely on him as a QB.
Yeah. Totally missed. What has he actually won again?
If winning is all you look at, then a lot of QB are not great. Marino never won a SB. In reference to him needing to play WR instead QB, I feel he has proven he can play QB in the NFL. I assume you are not referring to what Polian has won.
Dan Marino actually made it to a Super Bowl so, try again. Also, we’re seriously bringing up a Marino/Jackson argument? Really?
Jesus fucking christ.
I was only brining up that I think Jackson can play QB in the NFL and that Polian missed on his evaluation. You brought up winning. I used Marino as an example of why using winning when determining if a person can play a certain position does not seem like the best way. At no point that I compare the two as a player. You won at using the Lord's name in vain.
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It doesn’t diminish what he did this past season.
He’s one of 2 people to have a perfect passer rating twice in a season.
Losing to a 6 seed in the playoffs while turning over the ball three times and barely completed half his passes doesn't diminish what he's done this season?
I'm sure Baltimore is super happy tonight that LJ lit it up in the regular season.
It doesn’t mean the guy can’t play. Football is a team sport and Lamar doesn’t play defense. He also lost his best offensive weapon in Engram. It’s not all on his shoulders.
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In comment 14774400 Hsilwek92 said:
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In comment 14774374 Kyle in NY said:
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are absolutely brutal.
No you’re right. He’s been phenomenal in the playoffs.
Christ.
I’m not sure I understand what it is you think you’ve proven here. Jackson is going to win the MVP, he’s vastly exceeded expectations already. Sure, he’d trade that MVP in a heartbeat for a win tonight and a shot at the super bowl this season. He’s 0-2 in the playoffs. He was awful last season and not good tonight, although he didn’t get a ton of help. But two playoff losses does not validate the fact that you’ve likely been completely wrong about this player overall.
Very curious your issue with him, why you find the need to start a thread floating about the playoff loss of a non rival player?
The OP is a troll from around the draft and he’s made it this long. They all come out when it’s convenient and around the same times during the of year.
I’m a troll? Yeah ok. Moron.
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In comment 14774358 BigBlueDownTheShore said:
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It doesn’t diminish what he did this past season.
He’s one of 2 people to have a perfect passer rating twice in a season.
Losing to a 6 seed in the playoffs while turning over the ball three times and barely completed half his passes doesn't diminish what he's done this season?
I'm sure Baltimore is super happy tonight that LJ lit it up in the regular season.
It doesn’t mean the guy can’t play. Football is a team sport and Lamar doesn’t play defense. He also lost his best offensive weapon in Engram. It’s not all on his shoulders.
I think if Andrews hauled in that pass -- the kind of pass Jackson threw to him that resulted in completions all year -- the entire complexion of the game changes. They were moving the ball well on that first drive up to that point.
Jackson is a great athlete no doubt but last night his accuracy was off plus some bad drops by his receivers.
Give credit to Titans defense who had a great game plan against Ravens.
In some respects they remind of the 2007 Giants.
They are on a roll and will be tough to beat in the playoffs. Vrabel is doing a wonderful job preparing them for these playoff games.
Manning goes 10/18, 113 yds, 0 TDs, 3 Ints, sacked 4 times, 1 fumble lost
Manning goes 10/18, 113 yds, 0 TDs, 3 Ints, sacked 4 times, 1 fumble lost
Giants were not a 2 seed ever in Elis career. I think the Giants were the 4 seed that year.
Never believe all the hype. You have to wait years to make an evaluation.
That said, this is a team game and the Ravens didn't look good on either side of the ball. Yet another example of a team with a bye week, giving players off week 16. 3 weeks is too much time for these guys and they just weren't ready.
Another reminder that post season is a different animal and some guys are clutch and others aren't. But, Jackson is young and the Ravens will back. He will have another chance to prove himself.
RIP Ravens. Another team beaten by defense.
Manning goes 10/18, 113 yds, 0 TDs, 3 Ints, sacked 4 times, 1 fumble lost
A big difference between Eli and Lamar is that Lamar has a record number of pro bowlers on his team. This seemed like THE year for him to win and he may never have as good a team around him again. Eli did not have that in any yesr.
He’s probably the most talented player in the NFL. And the Ravens did a great job of building their offense around him.
I just don’t think the game has ever evolved enough or ever will enough to support this type of QB winning championships.
You have to be able to throw consistently in the NFL. Also you can’t be a run first QB all the time and expect to survive. He hasn’t gotten hurt yet but he runs too much. It’s going to catch up to him.
The Ravens window to win a title with him has 2 more years IMO before he breaks down. I really don’t think it will happen especially now that the Titans gave the rest of the NFL the blueprint on how to stop him and frustrate him.
There are a lot of young QBs in the NFL I would rather have than him if I was building a team, especially for long term success. Mahomes, Watson, Garropolo. Hell, I wouldn’t be surprised if I’m adding Jones and Burrow to that list this time next year. And vets that can still win like Rodgers and Wilson will probably still be playing at a high level by the time Jackson flares out.
What has he won? Nothing. Because he's played 2 fucking years in the NFL. He might never win anything. Who knows? Saying stuff like that just makes you look dumb. What QB has won as a rookie or 2nd year player?
I come back here to read through threads like this and I am convinced that my original hypothesis is true.
Oooh, a little subtle bit of racism there from the captain of the cheerleading squad.
Athletic QBs are, by definition, less cerebral? I haven't seen you question Jones's brain, yet he's every bit as athletic as Watson. Curious choice of examples of athletic QBs being less cerebral.
Does anyone think that MAY make a fucking difference in how plays are then called by the Ravens offense and the Titan's defense?
We don't even have to get into the Mark Ingram injury either.
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are absolutely brutal.
No you’re right. He’s been phenomenal in the playoffs.
Christ.
LOL seriously, he’s come up short when it’s mattered most. It doesn’t mean he won’t be back and finally win some of these games but as of now teams have planned against him and he’s failed miserably. That’s what good teams with good coaches do.
Jackson and Ravens had a great year but the NFL Playoffs are all about one thing...
"Either you play your best football in January or you are going home."
That said, I think a lot of the ridicule of Jackson right now comes less from his performance and more from the fact that some folks have been way over the top in praising him throughout the season (not unlike a certain poster and Cam Newton in years past). When you talk up a player to obnoxious levels, people take a disproportionate amount of joy in his failures.
They'd been front runners all year, and suddenly were in a hole. They didn't respond well, but mostly that's hats off to the Titans. They are very well coached.
That said, I think a lot of the ridicule of Jackson right now comes less from his performance and more from the fact that some folks have been way over the top in praising him throughout the season (not unlike a certain poster and Cam Newton in years past). When you talk up a player to obnoxious levels, people take a disproportionate amount of joy in his failures.
But Jackson really HAS rewritten the rules of the game, hasn't he?
/S
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Shouldn’t be reading too much into a single loss in a guys second year. If Daniel Jones has an NFL MVP year next year, secures a first round bye and then takes a dump in the divisional round...how should we react?
This isn’t a single loss. Its the second loss in the playoffs for Jackson in which he’s been fucking awful. The only difference is, this year, Baltimore was a one seed.
Go back and take a look at how Eli started off his playoff career. Young QBs need to learn how to win in the postseason. Drawing conclusions about the guy based on two playoff games his first two years in the league is beyond premature.
What he is may be good enough for the fans. Maybe it’s good enough for the Ravens. But I don’t ever see it being good enough to win a championship. Maybe if they build a 00 Ravens D and he simply never has to throw they can win.
Not smart? No reason to use code just come out with it.
Why is he not smart? Do you know he ran one of the more complicated passing offenses in college?
Does anyone think that MAY make a fucking difference in how plays are then called by the Ravens offense and the Titan's defense?
We don't even have to get into the Mark Ingram injury either.
What does matter is that the Ravens offense was bad and the QB leading it was not good. Kid has talent, but on 4th and one(a couple times) failed to pick up 1st downs doing what he still does best - run.
To me, that he was very good on balls down the middle and even deep while being terrible on sideline throws is a bit disconcerting. He is young and may/should get better, but many of his throws were just plain bad.
On a side note, his running is off the charts good. He is so fast and change of direction quick that it defies logic. It was slightly amusing watching Titans plays whiff and flail at a ghost.
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Being any better than he is now. He’s not smart. He’s not accurate. He’s not a natural passer. He’s in the best scheme he could possibly ever hope for.
What he is may be good enough for the fans. Maybe it’s good enough for the Ravens. But I don’t ever see it being good enough to win a championship. Maybe if they build a 00 Ravens D and he simply never has to throw they can win.
Not smart? No reason to use code just come out with it.
Why is he not smart? Do you know he ran one of the more complicated passing offenses in college?
Be careful, you might get accused of derailing a thread bringing up that stuff. "The Man" does not seem to like that discussion or we can trust ourselves to have a normal discussion.
This is a great point, I would probably go Chicken Little if Jones did poorly in his first two playoff games.
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NFL in January is different. The nfl landscape is littered with athletic mvp type QBs that crumble in January. I don’t care anyone says but but these athletic QBs they aren’t very cerebral will struggle against big time defenses in January. The facts are the facts. The history is there for all to see. Jackson might win big one day. But he’s going to need to adjust and adapt. Same rule applies to deshaun watson. These QBs who drop back to pass and immediately go into fight or flight mode, and eschew true pocket play will never go far this time of year. Defenses and coaching are too good. They eat that style up for lunch. Adapt or go the way of so many before you. And eventually the regular season NFL will catch up to them too. This has been happening for decades.
Oooh, a little subtle bit of racism there from the captain of the cheerleading squad.
Athletic QBs are, by definition, less cerebral? I haven't seen you question Jones's brain, yet he's every bit as athletic as Watson. Curious choice of examples of athletic QBs being less cerebral.
Lamar Jackson rocked a 13 on the Wonderlic. It’s not a “subtle hint of racism” — he’s just fucking dumb.
But this was a bad match-up for the Baltimore D. They are built on the back end to deal with teams like the Pats, Chiefs, etc.
Their DL is average/average plus. And was completely outclassed by the OL and running game of the Titans...
They scored 12 points.
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Eli Manning 2nd year - Giants are a 2 seed with a home playoff game.
Manning goes 10/18, 113 yds, 0 TDs, 3 Ints, sacked 4 times, 1 fumble lost
Giants were not a 2 seed ever in Elis career. I think the Giants were the 4 seed that year.
You are correct. My memory failed me. I thought they had a bye but they didn't, just a home game.
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In comment 14774396 Darth Paul said:
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In comment 14774374 Kyle in NY said:
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are absolutely brutal.
It is crazy how the takes change week to week. It goes to show you, know one really knows anything. One of the better talent evaluators missed completely on him as a QB.
Yeah. Totally missed. What has he actually won again?
If winning is all you look at, then a lot of QB are not great. Marino never won a SB. In reference to him needing to play WR instead QB, I feel he has proven he can play QB in the NFL. I assume you are not referring to what Polian has won.
Yeah, people getting all caught up in this "winning" stuff. What gives?
I have never seen so many "ducks".
People that keep talking about drops have never played wr. It's far harder to catch a ball when its nearly end over end then when it's a spiral.
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In comment 14774442 djm said:
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NFL in January is different. The nfl landscape is littered with athletic mvp type QBs that crumble in January. I don’t care anyone says but but these athletic QBs they aren’t very cerebral will struggle against big time defenses in January. The facts are the facts. The history is there for all to see. Jackson might win big one day. But he’s going to need to adjust and adapt. Same rule applies to deshaun watson. These QBs who drop back to pass and immediately go into fight or flight mode, and eschew true pocket play will never go far this time of year. Defenses and coaching are too good. They eat that style up for lunch. Adapt or go the way of so many before you. And eventually the regular season NFL will catch up to them too. This has been happening for decades.
Oooh, a little subtle bit of racism there from the captain of the cheerleading squad.
Athletic QBs are, by definition, less cerebral? I haven't seen you question Jones's brain, yet he's every bit as athletic as Watson. Curious choice of examples of athletic QBs being less cerebral.
Lamar Jackson rocked a 13 on the Wonderlic. It’s not a “subtle hint of racism” — he’s just fucking dumb.
I'm not suggesting that LJ is a rocket scientist, just that when someone connects a lack of intellect with an abundance of athleticism, there is often an unspoken context that they are associating intelligence (or lack thereof) with stereotype.
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In comment 14774442 djm said:
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NFL in January is different. The nfl landscape is littered with athletic mvp type QBs that crumble in January. I don’t care anyone says but but these athletic QBs they aren’t very cerebral will struggle against big time defenses in January. The facts are the facts. The history is there for all to see. Jackson might win big one day. But he’s going to need to adjust and adapt. Same rule applies to deshaun watson. These QBs who drop back to pass and immediately go into fight or flight mode, and eschew true pocket play will never go far this time of year. Defenses and coaching are too good. They eat that style up for lunch. Adapt or go the way of so many before you. And eventually the regular season NFL will catch up to them too. This has been happening for decades.
Oooh, a little subtle bit of racism there from the captain of the cheerleading squad.
Athletic QBs are, by definition, less cerebral? I haven't seen you question Jones's brain, yet he's every bit as athletic as Watson. Curious choice of examples of athletic QBs being less cerebral.
Lamar Jackson rocked a 13 on the Wonderlic. It’s not a “subtle hint of racism” — he’s just fucking dumb.
Be careful, if you use facts you still risk the masses on here calling you a racist
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NFL in January is different. The nfl landscape is littered with athletic mvp type QBs that crumble in January. I don’t care anyone says but but these athletic QBs they aren’t very cerebral will struggle against big time defenses in January. The facts are the facts. The history is there for all to see. Jackson might win big one day. But he’s going to need to adjust and adapt. Same rule applies to deshaun watson. These QBs who drop back to pass and immediately go into fight or flight mode, and eschew true pocket play will never go far this time of year. Defenses and coaching are too good. They eat that style up for lunch. Adapt or go the way of so many before you. And eventually the regular season NFL will catch up to them too. This has been happening for decades.
Oooh, a little subtle bit of racism there from the captain of the cheerleading squad.
Athletic QBs are, by definition, less cerebral? I haven't seen you question Jones's brain, yet he's every bit as athletic as Watson. Curious choice of examples of athletic QBs being less cerebral.
Lol what? You’re a fucking lunatic.
I would have drafted Jackson at 2 overall you wingnut. Right now, at this very moment, Jackson is not a very cerebral qb. That’s what you need to win in January more than anything else. Fuck off.
After the first pick (which I don't think was on Jackson), I said to him, "We're going to find out a lot about Jackson because playoff football is a lot different than regular-season football. And how he responds will be interesting."
Your son should take heart: Eli Manning was 0-2 in his first playoff appearances and Peyton Manning was 0-3. Jackson will be back. He's a brilliant talent in this league.
I think where Jackson pressed the most wasn't throwing the ball but the two 4th down plays. He botched both. And because of that, he was a huge reason why they lost.
It should read as “but these athletic QBs THAT aren’t very cerebral will struggle.” So maybe you were so quick to play the horse shit race card because “THEY aren’t very cerebral” might give someone the urge to go there, ok, you’re still awful quick to the trigger.
Not every athletic qb is black. Not every athletic qb isn’t cerebral. Happy now?
Don’t be too quick to call someone a racist. Do that shit in public and see where it ends up.
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In comment 14774442 djm said:
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NFL in January is different. The nfl landscape is littered with athletic mvp type QBs that crumble in January. I don’t care anyone says but but these athletic QBs they aren’t very cerebral will struggle against big time defenses in January. The facts are the facts. The history is there for all to see. Jackson might win big one day. But he’s going to need to adjust and adapt. Same rule applies to deshaun watson. These QBs who drop back to pass and immediately go into fight or flight mode, and eschew true pocket play will never go far this time of year. Defenses and coaching are too good. They eat that style up for lunch. Adapt or go the way of so many before you. And eventually the regular season NFL will catch up to them too. This has been happening for decades.
Oooh, a little subtle bit of racism there from the captain of the cheerleading squad.
Athletic QBs are, by definition, less cerebral? I haven't seen you question Jones's brain, yet he's every bit as athletic as Watson. Curious choice of examples of athletic QBs being less cerebral.
Lol what? You’re a fucking lunatic.
I would have drafted Jackson at 2 overall you wingnut. Right now, at this very moment, Jackson is not a very cerebral qb. That’s what you need to win in January more than anything else. Fuck off.
I did not see Jackson make glaring mental errors. What I saw was a bit of indecision on two 4th and 1s and poor throws to the outside. I think he saw what he should have seen but was unable to throw the ball where he wanted to. He has throwing technique problems.
I wonder at the usefulness and accuracy of the Wonderlic test when it involves black athletes. It has been proven that many standardized tests were written for what white middle/upper middle class people would think/associate. I'm not an educator but my daughter is and said that inner city and non-whites are at a disadvantage on these tests because of where they grow up and ethnic differences. I'm sure someone here can explain it better.
You do realize this board has taken a dump for the past several years on our 2-time SB MVP QB.
Do you really not think Jones is going to be Teflon if he sucks in the playoffs? This place will be Defcon5.
Regarding Jackson, the guy is in likely the best place he can be to succeed. Baltimore has built the offense and gameplan around him. But it is still a gimmicky run-heavy offense that when that running threat becomes neutralized, Jackson isn't going to beat you through the air.
The playoffs every year have strong defenses that can make a player 1-dimensional.
I am liking his responses in the post game pressers very much, almost Eli-like.
"Got to get back to work, I have a great team around me."
Seems pretty unfazed within the big picture of the playoff loses these past 2 years. Good for him.
But they lost because Henry is dominating the NFL right now. That’s the story. Henry just dominated BAL and NE. Chiefs won’t be able to handle this guy.
After TEN goes to the SB and wins it. Maybe Jackson isn’t such a bum.
Jackson has played less that 30 NFL games, he'll get better if he stays healthy. He's not a finished product. He can become a better passer.
There's a weird glee from some when he falls short, moreso than for other QBs. It's a little weird.
Ravens run D could use some help. Another WR is needed. Snead and Roberts need to be upgraded.
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Obviously.
But this was a bad match-up for the Baltimore D. They are built on the back end to deal with teams like the Pats, Chiefs, etc.
Their DL is average/average plus. And was completely outclassed by the OL and running game of the Titans...
They scored 12 points.
So are you hanging the loss mostly on Jackson?
I come back here to read through threads like this and I am convinced that my original hypothesis is true.
Do you include yourself in most people?..
But it seems like they're trying to force the issue with this guy.I don't see superstar at all,and it could have been worse if Tennessee had gone after him a little more.
Jackson has had some early success, but pegging him as the next big thing is premature. He also isn't doomed to always struggle in the playoffs.
Let's see how next year goes for him. I think his stats might come down to Earth a bit but that he might look better in his next postseason game.
How many TD did he score this year while his team had the highest scoring offense in the NFL.? One of the highest scoring offenses in the last 5 years (top 3).
Yes, some success here.
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Eli Manning 2nd year - Giants are a 2 seed with a home playoff game.
Manning goes 10/18, 113 yds, 0 TDs, 3 Ints, sacked 4 times, 1 fumble lost
Giants were not a 2 seed ever in Elis career. I think the Giants were the 4 seed that year.
They were a 1 seed in 2008-09 playoffs though. And lost to a 6 seed (sigh).
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In comment 14774484 Keyser said:
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Eli Manning 2nd year - Giants are a 2 seed with a home playoff game.
Manning goes 10/18, 113 yds, 0 TDs, 3 Ints, sacked 4 times, 1 fumble lost
Giants were not a 2 seed ever in Elis career. I think the Giants were the 4 seed that year.
They were a 1 seed in 2008-09 playoffs though. And lost to a 6 seed (sigh).
Ironically because of their inability to pass the ball. If Eli hadn’t won a Super Bowl the year before this bird would have wanted his head on a plate after that performance.
Injury is always concern and that’s been ignored by many in the media suggesting - yet again - that a mobile athletic QB like LJ was changing the game. I don’t hold it against LJ, but it does amaze me how the NFL media is always so quick to announce these mobile QBs to be game changing.
Also, that game was planned and executed perfectly by Vrabel and his team. They had a great game plan and made great plays. That TD toss by Tannehill was a perfect throw; a great double move by the receiver and what a play call in a big game on the road! Balls of fucking brass. Vrabel and his coaches and players were terrific!
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In comment 14774442 djm said:
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NFL in January is different. The nfl landscape is littered with athletic mvp type QBs that crumble in January. I don’t care anyone says but but these athletic QBs they aren’t very cerebral will struggle against big time defenses in January. The facts are the facts. The history is there for all to see. Jackson might win big one day. But he’s going to need to adjust and adapt. Same rule applies to deshaun watson. These QBs who drop back to pass and immediately go into fight or flight mode, and eschew true pocket play will never go far this time of year. Defenses and coaching are too good. They eat that style up for lunch. Adapt or go the way of so many before you. And eventually the regular season NFL will catch up to them too. This has been happening for decades.
Oooh, a little subtle bit of racism there from the captain of the cheerleading squad.
Athletic QBs are, by definition, less cerebral? I haven't seen you question Jones's brain, yet he's every bit as athletic as Watson. Curious choice of examples of athletic QBs being less cerebral.
Lamar Jackson rocked a 13 on the Wonderlic. It’s not a “subtle hint of racism” — he’s just fucking dumb.
You are troll and bring nothing to the table.
But it seems like they're trying to force the issue with this guy.I don't see superstar at all,and it could have been worse if Tennessee had gone after him a little more.
So this wasn't a superstar season for Lamar?The guy led the league in QBR, had 36TDs/6INTs, completed 66% of his passes, and he ran for 1200+ yards, and another 7 TDs. His MVP is going to be incidental?
And "force" what?
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and I sometimes root for the Ravens.
But it seems like they're trying to force the issue with this guy.I don't see superstar at all,and it could have been worse if Tennessee had gone after him a little more.
So this wasn't a superstar season for Lamar?The guy led the league in QBR, had 36TDs/6INTs, completed 66% of his passes, and he ran for 1200+ yards, and another 7 TDs. His MVP is going to be incidental?
And "force" what?
Lamar was forced to put the team on his back last night and similarly to his time at Louisville, he was not able to do it all himself.
I don’t agree with you all the time, but the people roasting him here forgot he had 2 perfect passer rating games this year and he’s only the second person to do that I believe.
Funny thing is the same group of people killing him right now are the same people that beat the drum of having a great running game is the key to winning in the NFL. The Ravens were the #1 running team in the league!
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In comment 14774549 Gatorade Dunk said:
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In comment 14774442 djm said:
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NFL in January is different. The nfl landscape is littered with athletic mvp type QBs that crumble in January. I don’t care anyone says but but these athletic QBs they aren’t very cerebral will struggle against big time defenses in January. The facts are the facts. The history is there for all to see. Jackson might win big one day. But he’s going to need to adjust and adapt. Same rule applies to deshaun watson. These QBs who drop back to pass and immediately go into fight or flight mode, and eschew true pocket play will never go far this time of year. Defenses and coaching are too good. They eat that style up for lunch. Adapt or go the way of so many before you. And eventually the regular season NFL will catch up to them too. This has been happening for decades.
Oooh, a little subtle bit of racism there from the captain of the cheerleading squad.
Athletic QBs are, by definition, less cerebral? I haven't seen you question Jones's brain, yet he's every bit as athletic as Watson. Curious choice of examples of athletic QBs being less cerebral.
Lamar Jackson rocked a 13 on the Wonderlic. It’s not a “subtle hint of racism” — he’s just fucking dumb.
You are troll and bring nothing to the table.
I’m a troll? You’re a fucking clown who adds nothing of interest here.
And "force" what?
1 season doesn't mean he's a superstar,especially in this league.The whole offense is built around him.Kinda reminds me of what they did with Robert Griffin.You should know all about that.
But anyway,every time I watch this guy,I ask my self,"Have they never seen a running quarterback before?".I guess Tennessee finally had enough.
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In comment 14774626 WillVAB said:
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In comment 14774549 Gatorade Dunk said:
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In comment 14774442 djm said:
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NFL in January is different. The nfl landscape is littered with athletic mvp type QBs that crumble in January. I don’t care anyone says but but these athletic QBs they aren’t very cerebral will struggle against big time defenses in January. The facts are the facts. The history is there for all to see. Jackson might win big one day. But he’s going to need to adjust and adapt. Same rule applies to deshaun watson. These QBs who drop back to pass and immediately go into fight or flight mode, and eschew true pocket play will never go far this time of year. Defenses and coaching are too good. They eat that style up for lunch. Adapt or go the way of so many before you. And eventually the regular season NFL will catch up to them too. This has been happening for decades.
Oooh, a little subtle bit of racism there from the captain of the cheerleading squad.
Athletic QBs are, by definition, less cerebral? I haven't seen you question Jones's brain, yet he's every bit as athletic as Watson. Curious choice of examples of athletic QBs being less cerebral.
Lamar Jackson rocked a 13 on the Wonderlic. It’s not a “subtle hint of racism” — he’s just fucking dumb.
You are troll and bring nothing to the table.
I’m a troll? You’re a fucking clown who adds nothing of interest here.
Why yes you are.
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In comment 14774626 WillVAB said:
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In comment 14774549 Gatorade Dunk said:
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In comment 14774442 djm said:
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NFL in January is different. The nfl landscape is littered with athletic mvp type QBs that crumble in January. I don’t care anyone says but but these athletic QBs they aren’t very cerebral will struggle against big time defenses in January. The facts are the facts. The history is there for all to see. Jackson might win big one day. But he’s going to need to adjust and adapt. Same rule applies to deshaun watson. These QBs who drop back to pass and immediately go into fight or flight mode, and eschew true pocket play will never go far this time of year. Defenses and coaching are too good. They eat that style up for lunch. Adapt or go the way of so many before you. And eventually the regular season NFL will catch up to them too. This has been happening for decades.
Oooh, a little subtle bit of racism there from the captain of the cheerleading squad.
Athletic QBs are, by definition, less cerebral? I haven't seen you question Jones's brain, yet he's every bit as athletic as Watson. Curious choice of examples of athletic QBs being less cerebral.
Lamar Jackson rocked a 13 on the Wonderlic. It’s not a “subtle hint of racism” — he’s just fucking dumb.
You are troll and bring nothing to the table.
I’m a troll? You’re a fucking clown who adds nothing of interest here.
Snazzy comeback
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In comment 14774442 djm said:
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NFL in January is different. The nfl landscape is littered with athletic mvp type QBs that crumble in January. I don’t care anyone says but but these athletic QBs they aren’t very cerebral will struggle against big time defenses in January. The facts are the facts. The history is there for all to see. Jackson might win big one day. But he’s going to need to adjust and adapt. Same rule applies to deshaun watson. These QBs who drop back to pass and immediately go into fight or flight mode, and eschew true pocket play will never go far this time of year. Defenses and coaching are too good. They eat that style up for lunch. Adapt or go the way of so many before you. And eventually the regular season NFL will catch up to them too. This has been happening for decades.
Oooh, a little subtle bit of racism there from the captain of the cheerleading squad.
Athletic QBs are, by definition, less cerebral? I haven't seen you question Jones's brain, yet he's every bit as athletic as Watson. Curious choice of examples of athletic QBs being less cerebral.
Lamar Jackson rocked a 13 on the Wonderlic. It’s not a “subtle hint of racism” — he’s just fucking dumb.
Dan Marino didn't do a lot better, and Johnny Football had a higher score than Peyton Manning. The Wonderlic is meaningless.
I'll submit Baltimore lost yesterday for a much more basic reason. They haven't played meaningful football in weeks and were out of sync. We've seen THAT happen before with all sorts of teams.
Either
A) they get hurt
or
B) you inevitably run into a Playoff D that smacks the piss out of you
Fun to watch but ultimately won't get it done.
Ravens got outcoached just like the Pats did last week
1 season doesn't mean he's a superstar,especially in this league.The whole offense is built around him.Kinda reminds me of what they did with Robert Griffin.You should know all about that.
But anyway,every time I watch this guy,I ask my self,"Have they never seen a running quarterback before?".I guess Tennessee finally had enough.
Of course the entire offense is built around LJax. His unique skills dictate that. And the Ravens deserve credit for not treating LJax as a square peg to try to fit him into some round hole.
Look, if you can't see that he's more than a running QB than there isn't much else to discuss. His job is to score points - and he did that 36X via pass and 7X by running this season. Which will result in the league MVP.
Does he need to continue to hone his passing skills? Sure. He's not a guy you'd use to make a QB textbook or a video on QB fundamentals. But he's getting there. And I like his chances of one day seguing from a pass/run QB to a mobile, passing QB...
Sound like a asinine fact/statistic? Well, it is. About as asinine as some of the other points on this thread people are trying to make about the results of one playoff game.
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don’t care anyone says but but these athletic QBs they aren’t very cerebral will struggle against big time defenses in January
It should read as “but these athletic QBs THAT aren’t very cerebral will struggle.” So maybe you were so quick to play the horse shit race card because “THEY aren’t very cerebral” might give someone the urge to go there, ok, you’re still awful quick to the trigger.
Not every athletic qb is black. Not every athletic qb isn’t cerebral. Happy now?
Yes, the difference between "they" and "that" is very significant. I apologize for jumping to that conclusion, and appreciate you seeing how that typo does dramatically change the implication of your post.
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Keep the same energy if Jones is bad in his first two playoff games.
You do realize this board has taken a dump for the past several years on our 2-time SB MVP QB.
Do you really not think Jones is going to be Teflon if he sucks in the playoffs? This place will be Defcon5.
Regarding Jackson, the guy is in likely the best place he can be to succeed. Baltimore has built the offense and gameplan around him. But it is still a gimmicky run-heavy offense that when that running threat becomes neutralized, Jackson isn't going to beat you through the air.
The playoffs every year have strong defenses that can make a player 1-dimensional.
Fatman: I gotta say, you say a lot of stupid shit, however, this was actually a really good post!! Good job!!
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In comment 14774600 ajr2456 said:
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Keep the same energy if Jones is bad in his first two playoff games.
You do realize this board has taken a dump for the past several years on our 2-time SB MVP QB.
Do you really not think Jones is going to be Teflon if he sucks in the playoffs? This place will be Defcon5.
Regarding Jackson, the guy is in likely the best place he can be to succeed. Baltimore has built the offense and gameplan around him. But it is still a gimmicky run-heavy offense that when that running threat becomes neutralized, Jackson isn't going to beat you through the air.
The playoffs every year have strong defenses that can make a player 1-dimensional.
Fatman: I gotta say, you say a lot of stupid shit, however, this was actually a really good post!! Good job!!
Especially this, "The playoffs every year have strong defenses that can make a player 1-dimensional".
I do think we'll see the difference between Mahomes and Jackson this coming week.
I don't know if KC will win, but I think that Mahomes will still play very well
What has he won? Nothing. Because he's played 2 fucking years in the NFL. He might never win anything. Who knows? Saying stuff like that just makes you look dumb. What QB has won as a rookie or 2nd year player?
Bingo. It’s pathetic/ a lot about people who are taking victory laps. Guys been in the league two freakin years
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People are so fucking dumb. I think Lamar is overrated as a player, but judging him off of two playoff losses as a 1st and 2nd year player is really fucking absurd. He's 23 years old and got beat by a team that just beat the best QB & HC of all time.
What has he won? Nothing. Because he's played 2 fucking years in the NFL. He might never win anything. Who knows? Saying stuff like that just makes you look dumb. What QB has won as a rookie or 2nd year player?
Bingo. It’s pathetic/ a lot about people who are taking victory laps. Guys been in the league two freakin years
While I wouldn't call Jackson a failure after two season, hell the guy is likely to be league MVP, his playoff performance was not good. He was only barely over 50% completion percentage. He did have several drops even if some of the passes were inaccurate. His legs are still his meal ticket and they are only going to take him so far and seeing as how he failed to get two first downs on 4th and 1 they let him down. He must improve his passing accuracy. He looked very good on deep balls. He has a very strong arm, but his short passing was pretty awful - some of the ugliest passes since Tim Tebow. I don't know why that is happening. Looks like he is just not trusting his arm to the outside. The balls he throws deep are beautiful. So why is that. I think more confidence will improve his accuracy.
He has a bright future, but he has to work hard to get his accuracy up with a better spiral. He will not progress without improving his throwing.
He is exactly what he has always been...a dynamic running threat and a good thrower to the center of the field. Tenn did a great job of stopping the run and clogging the middle passing lanes and Jackson did struggle a little going to the sidelines but there was also some really good coverage.
Tenn deserves a ton of credit for their defensive gameplan but Jackson is still an absolute weapon who puts a lot of pressure on you. My concern if I was a Ravens fan though are how long his body can take this kind of a pounding. He showed himself to be tough this year though.
In a playoff game though often times you need some luck (Eli to Tyree) or someone to step up in a tough situation and make a play (Eli to Manningham). That's why Eli is a hall of famer.
Can Jackson do that? I still wouldn't bet against it.
During the season Jackson had good to excellent performances against KC, NE, HOU, SEA, BUF, and SF. All but KC were wins. Are we saying that those teams weren't trying to win those games at the time like they would be in the playoffs? Sounds ridiculous.
More likely this loss can be attributed to:
- TEN being a hot team playing excellent football
- Baltimore being off after essentially taking two weeks off
- a poor gameplan that saw only 9 runs by Ravens running backs vs. 20 for Jackson and 59 passes; the injury to Ingram was also a factor
The people knocking Jackson would be doing cartwheels if we got half the production and wins from Daniel Jones. Much of the Jackson criticism feels like insecurity and sensitivity over how poorly the Barkley pick worked out.
During the season Jackson had good to excellent performances against KC, NE, HOU, SEA, BUF, and SF. All but KC were wins. Are we saying that those teams weren't trying to win those games at the time like they would be in the playoffs? Sounds ridiculous.
More likely this loss can be attributed to:
- TEN being a hot team playing excellent football
- Baltimore being off after essentially taking two weeks off
- a poor gameplan that saw only 9 runs by Ravens running backs vs. 20 for Jackson and 59 passes; the injury to Ingram was also a factor
The people knocking Jackson would be doing cartwheels if we got half the production and wins from Daniel Jones. Much of the Jackson criticism feels like insecurity and sensitivity over how poorly the Barkley pick worked out.
Really sounds of misplaced nonsense on your part denigrating Barkley.
Jackson had a great year up until he didn't. You'd be better served singing Jackson's praises (there are many for the likely MVP) then knocking Barkley every chance you get. Lamar had a better year than most thought he would.
But he absolutely needs to address his throwing issues and then maybe he would not need to run so much. Granted his legs are a weapon and his advantage. It was fun watching him start and stop on a dime, almost comical watching Titan's defenders trying to herd him and try to tackle him. But do not gloss over his glaring throwing issues.
Yes Ingram's injury hurt, but let's not lose sight that Jackson is very much the best rushing back on that team. Watching the game I did not even notice he was out until they showed him with the wrap on his calf.
And as far as the dig on Jones, let's be clear that Jackson is Baltimore's offense. The entire offense is built around his running/scrambling ability. Jackson and Jones are two completely different players; nobody is Lamar Jackson, nobody is close. The closest is likely Mahomes and well - then there is Mahomes throwing ability vs Jackson's and that is not close.
Jackson is who Jackson is - an immense talent who needs to improve his throwing. There is no need to attempt to denigrate other players to prove your point.
Seems like you are the one trying to tie it to him:
It has to do with blowback vs. the hype machine. Just like it did with Tebow. Just like it did when people said Cam Newton was doing things nobody has ever seen. When you come to BBI and there was a thread started each week about Jackson's greatness, the reaction to that isn't about Barkley, it is wondering why there is the obsession with Jackson (which ironically probably points more to those threads starters trying to tie this to Barkley).
I just don't get why people need to crown guys before they take the crown. Why do we always have to be told we are watching the best things ever? Do we get a bonus for one-upping things? That's what this boils down to for many people.
But it was amusing for you to pull up last years' SD-Ravens playoff thread last week and call out those criticizing Jackson. Did that have to do with Barkley as well?
The people knocking Jackson would be doing cartwheels if we got half the production and wins from Daniel Jones. Much of the Jackson criticism feels like insecurity and sensitivity over how poorly the Barkley pick worked out.
I'm high on both and I don't see them as tied together...we could easily have traded back up into the first and got Lamar and had both so that's fairly irrelevant. We just missed on the eval which is fair, many other teams did too.
That being said, I think it is a fair eval to say Jackson is always going to be a huge risk to pick up an injury. He took way too many hits in that game and his limitations did show up a bit but agree, let's not apply one game judgements to a career. Jackson is doing great things.
Now that doesn't mean we can't recognize how great he was this year. We can and should - it was quite the season. It stops there though, no reason to crown him him, but I do think there's reason to get excited about how he can grow as a player. I usually don't find any harm in thinking X will be the next great player, doesn't harm anyone talking about it.
Linking this back to Barkley is so stupid. I define bringing Barkley up in a "Lamar Jackson doesn't walk on water" thread as insecure.
Without question.
of the league and put up 500 yards of offense himself in this game.
It wasn't a perfect game, but some of the takes in this thread are absolutely brutal.
Seems like you are the one trying to tie it to him:
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The people knocking Jackson would be doing cartwheels if we got half the production and wins from Daniel Jones. Much of the Jackson criticism feels like insecurity and sensitivity over how poorly the Barkley pick worked out.
It has to do with blowback vs. the hype machine. Just like it did with Tebow. Just like it did when people said Cam Newton was doing things nobody has ever seen. When you come to BBI and there was a thread started each week about Jackson's greatness, the reaction to that isn't about Barkley, it is wondering why there is the obsession with Jackson (which ironically probably points more to those threads starters trying to tie this to Barkley).
I just don't get why people need to crown guys before they take the crown. Why do we always have to be told we are watching the best things ever? Do we get a bonus for one-upping things? That's what this boils down to for many people.
But it was amusing for you to pull up last years' SD-Ravens playoff thread last week and call out those criticizing Jackson. Did that have to do with Barkley as well?
Period. Point-blank.
Now that doesn't mean we can't recognize how great he was this year. We can and should - it was quite the season. It stops there though, no reason to crown him him, but I do think there's reason to get excited about how he can grow as a player. I usually don't find any harm in thinking X will be the next great player, doesn't harm anyone talking about it.
Linking this back to Barkley is so stupid. I define bringing Barkley up in a "Lamar Jackson doesn't walk on water" thread as insecure.
Of course, Jackson is the league MVP. He had a phenomenal year.
I do think we'll see the difference between Mahomes and Jackson this coming week.
I don't know if KC will win, but I think that Mahomes will still play very well
100% Agree
During the season Jackson had good to excellent performances against KC, NE, HOU, SEA, BUF, and SF. All but KC were wins. Are we saying that those teams weren't trying to win those games at the time like they would be in the playoffs? Sounds ridiculous.
More likely this loss can be attributed to:
- TEN being a hot team playing excellent football
- Baltimore being off after essentially taking two weeks off
- a poor gameplan that saw only 9 runs by Ravens running backs vs. 20 for Jackson and 59 passes; the injury to Ingram was also a factor
The people knocking Jackson would be doing cartwheels if we got half the production and wins from Daniel Jones. Much of the Jackson criticism feels like insecurity and sensitivity over how poorly the Barkley pick worked out.
That drum doesn't need to be banged anymore. It should be obvious to everyone at this point.
What I'm pointing out is that there's a lot of insecurity over the way things have worked out since that draft and the controversial pick of a running back 2nd overall. That insecurity is what's led the usual suspects to knock Jackson when he finally gave them an opportunity to knock him. It's also why the same usual suspects never miss a shot to knock Darnold.
And to answer FMIC above, no one is "crowning" Jackson anything. The guy is going to win MVP, and QB'd an offense that scored 33 points per game. No one's putting him in the HOF yet, which is more than what I can say about people here talking about Barkley - who I've seen referred to as a future HOFer and compared to Barry freaking Sanders.
If Daniel Jones led the Giants to a 14-2 record and 33 points per game, would posters here be saying we should hold our horses on him? Of course not...Jones has a 3-9 record as a starter and people are already saying he's our franchise QB for 10-15 years.
Talk about crowning people prematurely...
Insecurity?? How about the plethora of posters who categorized Darnold as a can't miss prospect. Who said that not taking a QB will set the franchise back years? You literally have had some posters like Mook and Josh complain for two years that Darnold wasn't selected.
People don't like buying into false narratives and hyperbole. It really shouldn't be that much more complicated. You'll have blowback when these things happen - similar to when we were told Cam Newton was doing things we haven't seen before (a topic you had a lot of fun with)
I mean, there was a motivation last week to repost the Chargers-Ravens playoff thread to make snide comments about how wrong the posters were on their takes on Jackson, right? It isn't nearly as funny this week, is it? you know why? Because many of those very same talking points held true for a second playoff game.
Well it cost us two years, so...
As for the Chargers thread, it's still very funny. Jackson is called "not an NFL QB" or something to that effect, and then he wins MVP and 1st team All-Pro as the QB of the highest scoring offense in the NFL. Definitely still funny.
But even funnier than that is that if he were a Giant, would you be saying the same thing? Of course not. You'd be preaching patience, as you do for the actual Giants which have been a disaster.
Above everything that's what drives me nuts. The blue glasses.
I like LJax. He's had a historic regular season campaign playing QB in the NFL in a way I've never seen.
But I don't actually interpret the criticism of LJax as hate. There is legitimate argument if he has the ability to be a pure passer when that's what is required to win a game. Because right now LJax looks like a race horse that has the best chance to win when on the lead, going wire to wire.
He's going to be a great case study going forward.
LOL.
Not taking a QB didn't set us back at all.
They moved the ball all day but the Titans produced turnovers, the most important one being the first pick which was a bit fortunate. And then they got two 4th down stops which basically turned the game after the Ravens had literally not been stopped on 4th down all season. They played bend but don't break. Credit to them, they got the win. But it's nothing like what the Chargers were able to do last year.
The talking points in that Ravens/Chargers thread look as silly to me now as they did before Saturday night.
I'm not preaching patience with Jackson. I don't have to, he had a great year and Baltimore is a competitor with him now.
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You are a tough guy to understand. You are now preaching patience with Jackson, but yet, you would already be looking to draft his replacement so you don't have to pay him in free agency.
I'm not preaching patience with Jackson. I don't have to, he had a great year and Baltimore is a competitor with him now.
Unfortunately, he now has this playoff albatross around his neck. And it's not going away.
Tennessee was just the wrong match-up for the Ravens. That defense was designed on the back-end to deal with the Chiefs, Pats, Texans, etc. Teams with QBs who can spread it out and force you to cover multiple passing packages. But they are not big up front and go abused by an OL who is hitting on all cylinders right now.
what SD and TENN both did to Jackson is to force him to make throws that he struggles at. Contain the run and force things outside. Not all defenses can do that.
Jackson left a lot of plays out there. The Ravens on the whole looked like an unmade bed...they reminded me of how the Giants came out after (essentially) a 2 week break against the Eagles in the '08 playoffs. But yeah, the playoff albatross is a fair point for Jackson now. Definitely.
It doesn't make the comments about him as an NFL QB any less ridiculous, though.
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Why are we hating on Jackson? He seems to have achieved a lot in a short time? Am I missing something? Is he a dick? He seems to work hard, his game has improved since entered the league? Has he already peeked? If there were only some explanation for hate. Can anyone make sense of this?
I like LJax. He's had a historic regular season campaign playing QB in the NFL in a way I've never seen.
But I don't actually interpret the criticism of LJax as hate. There is legitimate argument if he has the ability to be a pure passer when that's what is required to win a game. Because right now LJax looks like a race horse that has the best chance to win when on the lead, going wire to wire.
He's going to be a great case study going forward.
We have seen growth in his passing game year one to year 2.
More than a little?
Year 2 offensive production for him was insane.
I find it more than a little odd we are criticizing him for the the team's loss. I can find a lot of worse playoff games than Jackson's yesterday from HoF pocket passing QBs.
I think you have to be more than impressed with his career so far if you are fair.
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In comment 14776715 figgy2989 said:
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You are a tough guy to understand. You are now preaching patience with Jackson, but yet, you would already be looking to draft his replacement so you don't have to pay him in free agency.
I'm not preaching patience with Jackson. I don't have to, he had a great year and Baltimore is a competitor with him now.
Unfortunately, he now has this playoff albatross around his neck. And it's not going away.
Tennessee was just the wrong match-up for the Ravens. That defense was designed on the back-end to deal with the Chiefs, Pats, Texans, etc. Teams with QBs who can spread it out and force you to cover multiple passing packages. But they are not big up front and go abused by an OL who is hitting on all cylinders right now.
He has a playoff Albatross? Pretty sure Eli Manning was 0-2 in his first 2 playoff games. Peyton started off 0-3. And a shit ton of other QB's. He's an amazing player. Somebody has to lose.
what SD and TENN both did to Jackson is to force him to make throws that he struggles at. Contain the run and force things outside. Not all defenses can do that.
Oddly enough, I think the Titan Ds won with their back seven. Their safeties Byard and Ryan were great being aggressive and attacking the LOS to try to manage Lamar's running. And then their corners showed up, especially in the red zone...
I'm sure there are more example than just Peyton. But this is back to back years losing at home, and this year as the top seed. So, yes, an albatross. And it's a common thing for great players who have yet to excel in the playoffs...
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are in the playoffs, you are going to face defenses like that every year. If you are a player that an opposing D can neutralize, then there will be struggles.
what SD and TENN both did to Jackson is to force him to make throws that he struggles at. Contain the run and force things outside. Not all defenses can do that.
Oddly enough, I think the Titan Ds won with their back seven. Their safeties Byard and Ryan were great being aggressive and attacking the LOS to try to manage Lamar's running. And then their corners showed up, especially in the red zone...
Agreed. Ingram being limited was a huge factor too. Baltimore abandoned the traditional run way too early.
That drum doesn't need to be banged anymore. It should be obvious to everyone at this point.
Jackson had PLENTY of flags coming out of school - enough that 31 teams passed on him.
But since you are railing on the Giants for not taking him, I can only assume you equally rail on the 30 other teams as well?
Every team has better chance to win with the lead...
We have seen growth in his passing game year one to year 2.
More than a little?
Year 2 offensive production for him was insane.
I find it more than a little odd we are criticizing him for the the team's loss. I can find a lot of worse playoff games than Jackson's yesterday from HoF pocket passing QBs.
I think you have to be more than impressed with his career so far if you are fair.
I have raved - no pun intended - about LJax's play all year. He had a remarkable year.
But I think it's fair to ask these tough questions about his playoff performance.
This year it seemed like it was all system go for the Ravens...
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That drum doesn't need to be banged anymore. It should be obvious to everyone at this point.
Jackson had PLENTY of flags coming out of school - enough that 31 teams passed on him.
But since you are railing on the Giants for not taking him, I can only assume you equally rail on the 30 other teams as well?
A lot of teams made a mistake passing on Jackson. The problem with the Giants is that it was one of many mistakes.
That says something about the Giants, doesn't it?
Besides, not going after Jackson (or the other QBs) was about setting up the third or fourth iteration of the Eli Revenge Tour. It was always about Eli.
Throw him on a team with a bad OL or a coach tied to a scheme and Jackson is going to be just another guy who has to scramble to save his life.
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Because we would not be able to put the team around him to succeed right away like Baltimore could.
That says something about the Giants, doesn't it?
Besides, not going after Jackson (or the other QBs) was about setting up the third or fourth iteration of the Eli Revenge Tour. It was always about Eli.
It's simply a difference of opinion of roster construction.
I believe Saquon Barkley is a piece to build around. You don't. Doesn't make either point right or wrong.
The point is, for all this talk of the Giants getting set back, their CURRENT situation wouldn't be much different regardless of who we did or didn't take at #2 overall in 2018.
Throw him on a team with a bad OL or a coach tied to a scheme and Jackson is going to be just another guy who has to scramble to save his life.
The older I get, the more I see that with a lot of guys.
Would Mahomes still be the Mahomes we've come to know if he was drafted by the Bears at #2 overall? Or would he be just a guy.
Coaching matters. Situation matters.
And now, based on the Elliott and Gurley contracts, the Giants are a year away from resetting the RB market with Barkley's contract...even though there is overwhelming evidence that paying RBs big money is bad business. We'd have been better off drafting Jackson and building around him the way Baltimore has. What was stopping us?
That means you have two more seasons of Barkley under the rookie deal.
That means you have two more seasons of Barkley under the rookie deal.
Gurley and Elliott got their new contacts after year 3. I guess it's possible Barkley won't use that as the standard, but why wouldn't he?
And now, based on the Elliott and Gurley contracts, the Giants are a year away from resetting the RB market with Barkley's contract...even though there is overwhelming evidence that paying RBs big money is bad business. We'd have been better off drafting Jackson and building around him the way Baltimore has. What was stopping us?
They tweaked around him. There was no build required. They had a solid core.
We were not in that position, based on 10 years of bad drafting leading up to that pick.
How long do you think it would have taken Jackson to be functional with our roster in 2018?
Baltimore had a core foundation of a solid OL as well as a solid D - and that;s also key. Jackson on a team playing from behind often is sub-optimal.
Had they drafted Jackson and made an honest effort to build a team around his talent, they'd no doubt be in a better place today...which is essentially starting from zero with a new coach.
Of course any complaints about the org is seen as whining around here.
If they had drafted Jackson, with Shurmur as coach, and the OL was in the state it was, we are still likely looking at a terrible season, with the HC being fired and similar fallout.
That was my argumentation when people were saying if we picked Darnold we'd only have growing pains year 1, which people claimed they'd have patience for and then full takeoff in year 2. Ask the Jets how that theory sounds.
A lot of you guys like to throw around the "build around Eli" mantra, but this team likely is still in a similar situation if they cut Eli and drafted a QB two years ago, and then we are absent Barkley and Jones and there's little chance in hell we'd have Jackson. It would likely be Darnold and a pass rusher.
Had they drafted Jackson and made an honest effort to build a team around his talent, they'd no doubt be in a better place today...which is essentially starting from zero with a new coach.
Well what would "an honest effort to build a team around his talent" look like? What would they have done differently?
They still needed an o-line. They still needed a d-line. Sh-t, they need everything. I'm not sure what an honest effort to build around Jackson would look like. Not to mention, what would be be doing in the meantime, besides getting killed on a weekly basis because he was struggling to pass the ball?
I haven't...I know it's about the Ravens, but I don't know which year.
Well, the Ravens didn't cut Flacco outright. He started well into Jackson's first season.
We knew at the time what the Giants were likely to do...draft Barkley because they weren't going to release Eli. Let's not pretend they're a hard team to read...I first brought up Daniel Jones at #6 in February.
There wasn't a snowball's chance in hell they were picking Jackson at #2, #34, or anywhere else.
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Step one would have been to release Eli at the end of 2017, so the whole scenario is a non-starter. But are you asking for a step by step of what could have been done in the draft and free agency? I can do that, but then I'll just be accused of using hindsight.
Well, the Ravens didn't cut Flacco outright. He started well into Jackson's first season.
And that was a mistake by the Ravens, which they corrected in time before they lost their season.
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In comment 14777020 Go Terps said:
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Step one would have been to release Eli at the end of 2017, so the whole scenario is a non-starter. But are you asking for a step by step of what could have been done in the draft and free agency? I can do that, but then I'll just be accused of using hindsight.
Well, the Ravens didn't cut Flacco outright. He started well into Jackson's first season.
And that was a mistake by the Ravens, which they corrected in time before they lost their season.
Well were the Ravens going all in on Joe by not taking Jackson with their 1st round pick, and instead taking a TE and then trading back up at the end of the draft?
Jackson isn't very cerebral? You're kidding, right? There's a remarkable amount of dumb shit posted on this thread
If somebody said he's a terrible ball carrier, that's something to take issue with. Or if they said the Ravens haven't had success with him.
He wasn't good enough for them to take him at 25, but he was good value sitting there at the end of the round so they traded back up and got him.
If they had that level of conviction in him to cut their QB outright, they didn't show it. They ran a pretty big risk by letting him drop to the end of the round. So their is some luck on their part, too.
2. I made this point a couple weeks ago...why is the idea of the Giants drafting Jackson at #2 so insane? They drafted Daniel Jones at #6 a year later. Their college careers compared (each had three years as a starter):
Passing
Jackson: 57%, 9043 yards, 8.3 Y/A, 69/27
Jones: 59.9%, 8201, 6.4 Y/A, 52/29
Rushing
Jackson: 4132 yards, 6.3 Y/A, 50 TDs
Jones: 1323 yards, 3.3 Y/A, 17 TDs
Jackson won a Heisman and finished 3rd in the voting the next year. Jones was obviously never in the discussion.
So let me get this straight...drafting Jackson at #2 overall is insane, but drafting Jones #6 overall the next year makes all the sense in the world?
Can you explain that to me?
I think drafting Jackson over Darnold, Allen, and Rosen would have been shocking to say the least.
Secondly, maybe the Giants were scouting a passer, and not a hybrid like Jackson. Maybe they wanted a more polished passer? Who knows? Jackson has a lot of work to do in the passing department while Jones looked ready to go as a passer very early.
Let me ask you this question... All things being the same... Roster, coaches, surrounding cast, etc... Exact same.... Who's the better QB on THIS roster? Jones or Jackson? There you might find your answer to why the Giants would take Jones at #6 and not Jackson at #2.
I personally think Jackson would be a completely different QB on this team as constructed.
And to be fair the Giants' offense was largely pretty poor with Jones at quarterback, so it's not as if Jackson would have a high bar to overcome.
These are two players on completely different levels. One's a complete question mark, the other is about to be the NFL MVP.
And to be fair the Giants' offense was largely pretty poor with Jones at quarterback, so it's not as if Jackson would have a high bar to overcome.
These are two players on completely different levels. One's a complete question mark, the other is about to be the NFL MVP.
I'm saying exactly what I said before. Baltimore was a perfect landing spot for Jackson.
They had everything ready to go and plug him in. Great o-line, great defense, established run game. They just came off a 9-7 season when they drafted him.
We are/were the complete opposite of that. Horrible o-line, no defense, no running game. We had nothing.
It's pretty clear to me why Jackson could be successful in Baltimore and not so successful in New York.
In New York, he would have been required to make plays read defenses and make plays through the passing game. That wasn't really required of him in year one in Baltimore. They also tweaked further around his skills this year. Not every team can run the offense that they ran, just like every team couldn't run the wildcat. It's not dissimilar from what the Skins did with RG3 under Shanahan. And I know that any mention of RG3 rankles people in a comparison, but they have/had similar skillsets and there's probably a reason RG3 is the backup in Baltimore.
I guess? My reservations would be the same as what I just posted.
Will he develop fully as a passer. If he can't run, or the defense takes away the run, can he beat them through the air?
This is the kind of thing that is tough to take seriously. This is the blue glasses I'm talking about.
I personally think Jackson would be a completely different QB on this team as constructed.
LJax's limitations anywhere would be derivative of the imagination and abilities of the coaching staff...
I'm still wanting the 10 plus year starter.
You want the one hitter quitter to come in on a rookie deal, light it up, and move on.
I can appreciate your outside of the box thinking, but I'm still looking for the longer term solution as the way to build my team.
Lamar Jackson is having an incredible, MVP season. Now, will he break the mold and not flame out like all of the others that have lit the league on fire before him in similar styles? Or will he stand the test of time.
Guess we'll have to wait and see.
I'm still wanting the 10 plus year starter.
You want the one hitter quitter to come in on a rookie deal, light it up, and move on.
I can appreciate your outside of the box thinking, but I'm still looking for the longer term solution as the way to build my team.
Lamar Jackson is having an incredible, MVP season. Now, will he break the mold and not flame out like all of the others that have lit the league on fire before him in similar styles? Or will he stand the test of time.
Guess we'll have to wait and see.
I want the best possible option at quarterback. Every year. More often than not that's going to be a guy in his rookie deal, unless he is absolutely exceptional.
I don't see the point in longevity at QB for longevity's sake. It's usually counterproductive, and it's unnecessary given the way offensive football has changed in college and the NFL.
In 2019 Jackson was a better passer than Daniel Jones and a better rusher than Saquon Barkley while missing zero games...both Jones and Barkley missed what, 2 or 3 games each?
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NFL in January is different. The nfl landscape is littered with athletic mvp type QBs that crumble in January. I don’t care anyone says but but these athletic QBs they aren’t very cerebral will struggle against big time defenses in January. The facts are the facts. The history is there for all to see. Jackson might win big one day. But he’s going to need to adjust and adapt. Same rule applies to deshaun watson. These QBs who drop back to pass and immediately go into fight or flight mode, and eschew true pocket play will never go far this time of year. Defenses and coaching are too good. They eat that style up for lunch. Adapt or go the way of so many before you. And eventually the regular season NFL will catch up to them too. This has been happening for decades.
Jackson isn't very cerebral? You're kidding, right? There's a remarkable amount of dumb shit posted on this thread
How was that dumb shit? Dude score a fucking 13 on his wonderlic. He isn't very smart, tremendous athlete, but Elon Musk he is not.
In 2019 Jackson was a better passer than Daniel Jones and a better rusher than Saquon Barkley while missing zero games...both Jones and Barkley missed what, 2 or 3 games each?
Better passer than Jones...don't push it. He is not a better passer than Jones.
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If injuries are your concern, Daniel Jones missed more games to injury this season than Jackson has since high school (0).
In 2019 Jackson was a better passer than Daniel Jones and a better rusher than Saquon Barkley while missing zero games...both Jones and Barkley missed what, 2 or 3 games each?
Better passer than Jones...don't push it. He is not a better passer than Jones.
When Jones learns any pocket presence, throws for a YPA of 7.8, and has a 36/6 TD/INT ratio we can talk about him being in Jackson's league as a passer.
Right now, it isn't close.
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If injuries are your concern, Daniel Jones missed more games to injury this season than Jackson has since high school (0).
In 2019 Jackson was a better passer than Daniel Jones and a better rusher than Saquon Barkley while missing zero games...both Jones and Barkley missed what, 2 or 3 games each?
Better passer than Jones...don't push it. He is not a better passer than Jones.
Jones certainly looks like a better passer because he resembles more of the text book style. And he has better mechanics by a significant margin. LJax tends to get very flat footed and uses much less lower body to throw. Throws a lot with just his arm.
But from an actual production standpoint, it's not even close. LJax.
Otherwise its just people pumping up Jackson despite his epic fails in the post-season.
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In comment 14777596 Go Terps said:
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If injuries are your concern, Daniel Jones missed more games to injury this season than Jackson has since high school (0).
In 2019 Jackson was a better passer than Daniel Jones and a better rusher than Saquon Barkley while missing zero games...both Jones and Barkley missed what, 2 or 3 games each?
Better passer than Jones...don't push it. He is not a better passer than Jones.
When Jones learns any pocket presence, throws for a YPA of 7.8, and has a 36/6 TD/INT ratio we can talk about him being in Jackson's league as a passer.
Right now, it isn't close.
Stats yes he has stats on his side. But I never saw Jones look like that show against Tennessee. Closest was the 3 INT game and he wasn't heaving end over end passes. Jackson is a product of a VG team, built to take advantage of his incredible run skills which hold LBs and safeties to defend the run.
Jackson is successful, he is fun to watch and he throws a nice deep ball as well as intermediate pass down the middle. But when was the last time you saw that many ducks, floaters, wobblers by an NFL QB(Billy Kilmer?). The crazy thing is he clearly can throw a nice ball. He is not a finished product, but what happens in a couple years when he slows down. Will he have corrected his passing flaws?
They were all supposed to change the game, they were all doing things nobody ever saw before, and they all fell short of winning a championship (which Terps you said is ultimately all that matters), and then the league adjusted and it was over.
RG3 in 2012
Kaepernick in 2012
Cam Newton in 2015
These guys blazed through the regular season, two made it to Superbowls, but ultimately couldn't overcome the teams they played that ran the ball well and played good defense. RG3 was hurt, but it was clear his style was not sustainable without learning to be a pure passer.
Will Lamar Jackson break the mold of what has come before? Remains to be seen. But so far, he's run into the same problems as the other guys. Teams that rush the ball really well and play really good defense neutralized him in the playoffs.
Go Terps : 1/13/2020 6:15 pm : link : reply
that Jackson has only played 10 more games than Jones, is only 5 months older, and completely blew Jones out of the water this year as a passer...right?
The scheme and his ability to run opened up a lot of plays. His TD % passing the ball was 9%. But he's not a very good passer. Put him on the Giants, and he's scrambling for his life, and has to throw to the outside.
If we can't just admit that Jackson landed in one of the best spots for his style and that Baltimore has done what they can to build around that style, I don't know what else to say. He would not have that type of fit here or with several other teams.
Jackson is a great talent, but he is not a good passer yet. He takes advantage of less double coverage due to his running ability (hats off to him, he should be doing this) and frequently gets to throw to open receivers because teams typically key in on him once he looks like he's breaking the pocket.
And then there's Jones. He's more accurate, has plenty of arm, but doesn't get the benefit of his running game or good protection so he's routinely throwing into tight coverage (there were stats on this all season long about how small the WR separation is compared to other teams). Jones fumbles a lot, so did Jackson his rookie year (almost identical fumble rates).
I don't really know what else to say.