NFL in January is different. The nfl landscape is littered with athletic mvp type QBs that crumble in January. I don’t care anyone says but but these athletic QBs they aren’t very cerebral will struggle against big time defenses in January. The facts are the facts. The history is there for all to see. Jackson might win big one day. But he’s going to need to adjust and adapt. Same rule applies to deshaun watson. These QBs who drop back to pass and immediately go into fight or flight mode, and eschew true pocket play will never go far this time of year. Defenses and coaching are too good. They eat that style up for lunch. Adapt or go the way of so many before you. And eventually the regular season NFL will catch up to them too. This has been happening for decades.
Oooh, a little subtle bit of racism there from the captain of the cheerleading squad.
Athletic QBs are, by definition, less cerebral? I haven't seen you question Jones's brain, yet he's every bit as athletic as Watson. Curious choice of examples of athletic QBs being less cerebral.
Lamar Jackson rocked a 13 on the Wonderlic. It’s not a “subtle hint of racism” — he’s just fucking dumb.
You are troll and bring nothing to the table.
I’m a troll? You’re a fucking clown who adds nothing of interest here.
NFL in January is different. The nfl landscape is littered with athletic mvp type QBs that crumble in January. I don’t care anyone says but but these athletic QBs they aren’t very cerebral will struggle against big time defenses in January. The facts are the facts. The history is there for all to see. Jackson might win big one day. But he’s going to need to adjust and adapt. Same rule applies to deshaun watson. These QBs who drop back to pass and immediately go into fight or flight mode, and eschew true pocket play will never go far this time of year. Defenses and coaching are too good. They eat that style up for lunch. Adapt or go the way of so many before you. And eventually the regular season NFL will catch up to them too. This has been happening for decades.
Oooh, a little subtle bit of racism there from the captain of the cheerleading squad.
Athletic QBs are, by definition, less cerebral? I haven't seen you question Jones's brain, yet he's every bit as athletic as Watson. Curious choice of examples of athletic QBs being less cerebral.
Lamar Jackson rocked a 13 on the Wonderlic. It’s not a “subtle hint of racism” — he’s just fucking dumb.
Dan Marino didn't do a lot better, and Johnny Football had a higher score than Peyton Manning. The Wonderlic is meaningless.
I'll submit Baltimore lost yesterday for a much more basic reason. They haven't played meaningful football in weeks and were out of sync. We've seen THAT happen before with all sorts of teams.
1 season doesn't mean he's a superstar,especially in this league.The whole offense is built around him.Kinda reminds me of what they did with Robert Griffin.You should know all about that.
But anyway,every time I watch this guy,I ask my self,"Have they never seen a running quarterback before?".I guess Tennessee finally had enough.
Of course the entire offense is built around LJax. His unique skills dictate that. And the Ravens deserve credit for not treating LJax as a square peg to try to fit him into some round hole.
Look, if you can't see that he's more than a running QB than there isn't much else to discuss. His job is to score points - and he did that 36X via pass and 7X by running this season. Which will result in the league MVP.
Does he need to continue to hone his passing skills? Sure. He's not a guy you'd use to make a QB textbook or a video on QB fundamentals. But he's getting there. And I like his chances of one day seguing from a pass/run QB to a mobile, passing QB...
still has more playoff appearances than Baker Mayfield, Sam Darnold, Josh Rosen, Josh Allen, Kyler Murray, Daniel Jones, Dwayne Haskins, and Drew Lock combined.
Sound like a asinine fact/statistic? Well, it is. About as asinine as some of the other points on this thread people are trying to make about the results of one playoff game.
don’t care anyone says but but these athletic QBs they aren’t very cerebral will struggle against big time defenses in January
It should read as “but these athletic QBs THAT aren’t very cerebral will struggle.” So maybe you were so quick to play the horse shit race card because “THEY aren’t very cerebral” might give someone the urge to go there, ok, you’re still awful quick to the trigger.
Not every athletic qb is black. Not every athletic qb isn’t cerebral. Happy now?
Yes, the difference between "they" and "that" is very significant. I apologize for jumping to that conclusion, and appreciate you seeing how that typo does dramatically change the implication of your post.
Keep the same energy if Jones is bad in his first two playoff games.
You do realize this board has taken a dump for the past several years on our 2-time SB MVP QB.
Do you really not think Jones is going to be Teflon if he sucks in the playoffs? This place will be Defcon5.
Regarding Jackson, the guy is in likely the best place he can be to succeed. Baltimore has built the offense and gameplan around him. But it is still a gimmicky run-heavy offense that when that running threat becomes neutralized, Jackson isn't going to beat you through the air.
The playoffs every year have strong defenses that can make a player 1-dimensional.
Fatman: I gotta say, you say a lot of stupid shit, however, this was actually a really good post!! Good job!!
Keep the same energy if Jones is bad in his first two playoff games.
You do realize this board has taken a dump for the past several years on our 2-time SB MVP QB.
Do you really not think Jones is going to be Teflon if he sucks in the playoffs? This place will be Defcon5.
Regarding Jackson, the guy is in likely the best place he can be to succeed. Baltimore has built the offense and gameplan around him. But it is still a gimmicky run-heavy offense that when that running threat becomes neutralized, Jackson isn't going to beat you through the air.
The playoffs every year have strong defenses that can make a player 1-dimensional.
Fatman: I gotta say, you say a lot of stupid shit, however, this was actually a really good post!! Good job!!
Especially this, "The playoffs every year have strong defenses that can make a player 1-dimensional".
People are so fucking dumb. I think Lamar is overrated as a player, but judging him off of two playoff losses as a 1st and 2nd year player is really fucking absurd. He's 23 years old and got beat by a team that just beat the best QB & HC of all time.
What has he won? Nothing. Because he's played 2 fucking years in the NFL. He might never win anything. Who knows? Saying stuff like that just makes you look dumb. What QB has won as a rookie or 2nd year player?
Bingo. It’s pathetic/ a lot about people who are taking victory laps. Guys been in the league two freakin years
People are so fucking dumb. I think Lamar is overrated as a player, but judging him off of two playoff losses as a 1st and 2nd year player is really fucking absurd. He's 23 years old and got beat by a team that just beat the best QB & HC of all time.
What has he won? Nothing. Because he's played 2 fucking years in the NFL. He might never win anything. Who knows? Saying stuff like that just makes you look dumb. What QB has won as a rookie or 2nd year player?
Bingo. It’s pathetic/ a lot about people who are taking victory laps. Guys been in the league two freakin years
While I wouldn't call Jackson a failure after two season, hell the guy is likely to be league MVP, his playoff performance was not good. He was only barely over 50% completion percentage. He did have several drops even if some of the passes were inaccurate. His legs are still his meal ticket and they are only going to take him so far and seeing as how he failed to get two first downs on 4th and 1 they let him down. He must improve his passing accuracy. He looked very good on deep balls. He has a very strong arm, but his short passing was pretty awful - some of the ugliest passes since Tim Tebow. I don't know why that is happening. Looks like he is just not trusting his arm to the outside. The balls he throws deep are beautiful. So why is that. I think more confidence will improve his accuracy.
He has a bright future, but he has to work hard to get his accuracy up with a better spiral. He will not progress without improving his throwing.
and I think people are being way too quick to pass judgement.
He is exactly what he has always been...a dynamic running threat and a good thrower to the center of the field. Tenn did a great job of stopping the run and clogging the middle passing lanes and Jackson did struggle a little going to the sidelines but there was also some really good coverage.
Tenn deserves a ton of credit for their defensive gameplan but Jackson is still an absolute weapon who puts a lot of pressure on you. My concern if I was a Ravens fan though are how long his body can take this kind of a pounding. He showed himself to be tough this year though.
In a playoff game though often times you need some luck (Eli to Tyree) or someone to step up in a tough situation and make a play (Eli to Manningham). That's why Eli is a hall of famer.
Can Jackson do that? I still wouldn't bet against it.
The talk of "playoff football" and "playoff defenses" sounds like Â
During the season Jackson had good to excellent performances against KC, NE, HOU, SEA, BUF, and SF. All but KC were wins. Are we saying that those teams weren't trying to win those games at the time like they would be in the playoffs? Sounds ridiculous.
More likely this loss can be attributed to:
- TEN being a hot team playing excellent football
- Baltimore being off after essentially taking two weeks off
- a poor gameplan that saw only 9 runs by Ravens running backs vs. 20 for Jackson and 59 passes; the injury to Ingram was also a factor
The people knocking Jackson would be doing cartwheels if we got half the production and wins from Daniel Jones. Much of the Jackson criticism feels like insecurity and sensitivity over how poorly the Barkley pick worked out.
During the season Jackson had good to excellent performances against KC, NE, HOU, SEA, BUF, and SF. All but KC were wins. Are we saying that those teams weren't trying to win those games at the time like they would be in the playoffs? Sounds ridiculous.
More likely this loss can be attributed to:
- TEN being a hot team playing excellent football
- Baltimore being off after essentially taking two weeks off
- a poor gameplan that saw only 9 runs by Ravens running backs vs. 20 for Jackson and 59 passes; the injury to Ingram was also a factor
The people knocking Jackson would be doing cartwheels if we got half the production and wins from Daniel Jones. Much of the Jackson criticism feels like insecurity and sensitivity over how poorly the Barkley pick worked out.
Really sounds of misplaced nonsense on your part denigrating Barkley.
Jackson had a great year up until he didn't. You'd be better served singing Jackson's praises (there are many for the likely MVP) then knocking Barkley every chance you get. Lamar had a better year than most thought he would.
But he absolutely needs to address his throwing issues and then maybe he would not need to run so much. Granted his legs are a weapon and his advantage. It was fun watching him start and stop on a dime, almost comical watching Titan's defenders trying to herd him and try to tackle him. But do not gloss over his glaring throwing issues.
Yes Ingram's injury hurt, but let's not lose sight that Jackson is very much the best rushing back on that team. Watching the game I did not even notice he was out until they showed him with the wrap on his calf.
And as far as the dig on Jones, let's be clear that Jackson is Baltimore's offense. The entire offense is built around his running/scrambling ability. Jackson and Jones are two completely different players; nobody is Lamar Jackson, nobody is close. The closest is likely Mahomes and well - then there is Mahomes throwing ability vs Jackson's and that is not close.
Jackson is who Jackson is - an immense talent who needs to improve his throwing. There is no need to attempt to denigrate other players to prove your point.
Seems like you are the one trying to tie it to him:
Quote:
The people knocking Jackson would be doing cartwheels if we got half the production and wins from Daniel Jones. Much of the Jackson criticism feels like insecurity and sensitivity over how poorly the Barkley pick worked out.
It has to do with blowback vs. the hype machine. Just like it did with Tebow. Just like it did when people said Cam Newton was doing things nobody has ever seen. When you come to BBI and there was a thread started each week about Jackson's greatness, the reaction to that isn't about Barkley, it is wondering why there is the obsession with Jackson (which ironically probably points more to those threads starters trying to tie this to Barkley).
I just don't get why people need to crown guys before they take the crown. Why do we always have to be told we are watching the best things ever? Do we get a bonus for one-upping things? That's what this boils down to for many people.
But it was amusing for you to pull up last years' SD-Ravens playoff thread last week and call out those criticizing Jackson. Did that have to do with Barkley as well?
The people knocking Jackson would be doing cartwheels if we got half the production and wins from Daniel Jones. Much of the Jackson criticism feels like insecurity and sensitivity over how poorly the Barkley pick worked out.
I'm high on both and I don't see them as tied together...we could easily have traded back up into the first and got Lamar and had both so that's fairly irrelevant. We just missed on the eval which is fair, many other teams did too.
That being said, I think it is a fair eval to say Jackson is always going to be a huge risk to pick up an injury. He took way too many hits in that game and his limitations did show up a bit but agree, let's not apply one game judgements to a career. Jackson is doing great things.
as much as anything that the Ravens need to improve skill positions. Bills probably feel the same way. you can only go so far without a TE or WR that is deemed a big threat. Even the pats realize this after losing gronk.
Jackson is a fantastic talent and still limited as a passer. Titans contained him well and forced him to pass and he simply isn't very effective.
Now that doesn't mean we can't recognize how great he was this year. We can and should - it was quite the season. It stops there though, no reason to crown him him, but I do think there's reason to get excited about how he can grow as a player. I usually don't find any harm in thinking X will be the next great player, doesn't harm anyone talking about it.
Linking this back to Barkley is so stupid. I define bringing Barkley up in a "Lamar Jackson doesn't walk on water" thread as insecure.
And nothing he did this year should be taken away from him. However, he will have the cloud over his head of poor playoff performances. Yes, I get it, it is only two games and one when he was a rookie. But for having such a great regular season only to come up small when it counted will be held against him.
Seems like you are the one trying to tie it to him:
Quote:
The people knocking Jackson would be doing cartwheels if we got half the production and wins from Daniel Jones. Much of the Jackson criticism feels like insecurity and sensitivity over how poorly the Barkley pick worked out.
It has to do with blowback vs. the hype machine. Just like it did with Tebow. Just like it did when people said Cam Newton was doing things nobody has ever seen. When you come to BBI and there was a thread started each week about Jackson's greatness, the reaction to that isn't about Barkley, it is wondering why there is the obsession with Jackson (which ironically probably points more to those threads starters trying to tie this to Barkley).
I just don't get why people need to crown guys before they take the crown. Why do we always have to be told we are watching the best things ever? Do we get a bonus for one-upping things? That's what this boils down to for many people.
But it was amusing for you to pull up last years' SD-Ravens playoff thread last week and call out those criticizing Jackson. Did that have to do with Barkley as well?
Jackson is a fantastic talent and still limited as a passer. Titans contained him well and forced him to pass and he simply isn't very effective.
Now that doesn't mean we can't recognize how great he was this year. We can and should - it was quite the season. It stops there though, no reason to crown him him, but I do think there's reason to get excited about how he can grow as a player. I usually don't find any harm in thinking X will be the next great player, doesn't harm anyone talking about it.
Linking this back to Barkley is so stupid. I define bringing Barkley up in a "Lamar Jackson doesn't walk on water" thread as insecure.
Of course, Jackson is the league MVP. He had a phenomenal year.
Why are we hating on Jackson? He seems to have achieved a lot in a short time? Am I missing something? Is he a dick? He seems to work hard, his game has improved since entered the league? Has he already peeked? If there were only some explanation for hate. Can anyone make sense of this?
During the season Jackson had good to excellent performances against KC, NE, HOU, SEA, BUF, and SF. All but KC were wins. Are we saying that those teams weren't trying to win those games at the time like they would be in the playoffs? Sounds ridiculous.
More likely this loss can be attributed to:
- TEN being a hot team playing excellent football
- Baltimore being off after essentially taking two weeks off
- a poor gameplan that saw only 9 runs by Ravens running backs vs. 20 for Jackson and 59 passes; the injury to Ingram was also a factor
The people knocking Jackson would be doing cartwheels if we got half the production and wins from Daniel Jones. Much of the Jackson criticism feels like insecurity and sensitivity over how poorly the Barkley pick worked out.
I agree with most of this. I don't agree with the last sentence, I think the motivation is worse.
Terps is still banging the "Giants should have taken Jackson over Barkley" drum...
That drum doesn't need to be banged anymore. It should be obvious to everyone at this point.
What I'm pointing out is that there's a lot of insecurity over the way things have worked out since that draft and the controversial pick of a running back 2nd overall. That insecurity is what's led the usual suspects to knock Jackson when he finally gave them an opportunity to knock him. It's also why the same usual suspects never miss a shot to knock Darnold.
And to answer FMIC above, no one is "crowning" Jackson anything. The guy is going to win MVP, and QB'd an offense that scored 33 points per game. No one's putting him in the HOF yet, which is more than what I can say about people here talking about Barkley - who I've seen referred to as a future HOFer and compared to Barry freaking Sanders.
If Daniel Jones led the Giants to a 14-2 record and 33 points per game, would posters here be saying we should hold our horses on him? Of course not...Jones has a 3-9 record as a starter and people are already saying he's our franchise QB for 10-15 years.
What I'm pointing out is that there's a lot of insecurity over the way things have worked out since that draft and the controversial pick of a running back 2nd overall. That insecurity is what's led the usual suspects to knock Jackson when he finally gave them an opportunity to knock him. It's also why the same usual suspects never miss a shot to knock Darnold.
Insecurity?? How about the plethora of posters who categorized Darnold as a can't miss prospect. Who said that not taking a QB will set the franchise back years? You literally have had some posters like Mook and Josh complain for two years that Darnold wasn't selected.
People don't like buying into false narratives and hyperbole. It really shouldn't be that much more complicated. You'll have blowback when these things happen - similar to when we were told Cam Newton was doing things we haven't seen before (a topic you had a lot of fun with)
I mean, there was a motivation last week to repost the Chargers-Ravens playoff thread to make snide comments about how wrong the posters were on their takes on Jackson, right? It isn't nearly as funny this week, is it? you know why? Because many of those very same talking points held true for a second playoff game.
Who said that not taking a QB will set the franchise back years?
Well it cost us two years, so...
As for the Chargers thread, it's still very funny. Jackson is called "not an NFL QB" or something to that effect, and then he wins MVP and 1st team All-Pro as the QB of the highest scoring offense in the NFL. Definitely still funny.
But even funnier than that is that if he were a Giant, would you be saying the same thing? Of course not. You'd be preaching patience, as you do for the actual Giants which have been a disaster.
Above everything that's what drives me nuts. The blue glasses.
Why are we hating on Jackson? He seems to have achieved a lot in a short time? Am I missing something? Is he a dick? He seems to work hard, his game has improved since entered the league? Has he already peeked? If there were only some explanation for hate. Can anyone make sense of this?
I like LJax. He's had a historic regular season campaign playing QB in the NFL in a way I've never seen.
But I don't actually interpret the criticism of LJax as hate. There is legitimate argument if he has the ability to be a pure passer when that's what is required to win a game. Because right now LJax looks like a race horse that has the best chance to win when on the lead, going wire to wire.
He's going to be a great case study going forward.
You are a tough guy to understand. You are now preaching patience with Jackson, but yet, you would already be looking to draft his replacement so you don't have to pay him in free agency.
has very little similarities to last year's loss IMO. People are acting like the Titans cracked some code. But Jackson still threw for 365 yards and ran for 143. Last year he couldn't get anything going but this year that wasn't the case.
They moved the ball all day but the Titans produced turnovers, the most important one being the first pick which was a bit fortunate. And then they got two 4th down stops which basically turned the game after the Ravens had literally not been stopped on 4th down all season. They played bend but don't break. Credit to them, they got the win. But it's nothing like what the Chargers were able to do last year.
The talking points in that Ravens/Chargers thread look as silly to me now as they did before Saturday night.
You are a tough guy to understand. You are now preaching patience with Jackson, but yet, you would already be looking to draft his replacement so you don't have to pay him in free agency.
I'm not preaching patience with Jackson. I don't have to, he had a great year and Baltimore is a competitor with him now.
You are a tough guy to understand. You are now preaching patience with Jackson, but yet, you would already be looking to draft his replacement so you don't have to pay him in free agency.
I'm not preaching patience with Jackson. I don't have to, he had a great year and Baltimore is a competitor with him now.
Unfortunately, he now has this playoff albatross around his neck. And it's not going away.
Tennessee was just the wrong match-up for the Ravens. That defense was designed on the back-end to deal with the Chiefs, Pats, Texans, etc. Teams with QBs who can spread it out and force you to cover multiple passing packages. But they are not big up front and go abused by an OL who is hitting on all cylinders right now.
are in the playoffs, you are going to face defenses like that every year. If you are a player that an opposing D can neutralize, then there will be struggles.
what SD and TENN both did to Jackson is to force him to make throws that he struggles at. Contain the run and force things outside. Not all defenses can do that.
There are throws he struggles with. I've said that from the beginning with him...I must have said "No one is going to confuse him with Drew Brees" several times.
Jackson left a lot of plays out there. The Ravens on the whole looked like an unmade bed...they reminded me of how the Giants came out after (essentially) a 2 week break against the Eagles in the '08 playoffs. But yeah, the playoff albatross is a fair point for Jackson now. Definitely.
It doesn't make the comments about him as an NFL QB any less ridiculous, though.
Why are we hating on Jackson? He seems to have achieved a lot in a short time? Am I missing something? Is he a dick? He seems to work hard, his game has improved since entered the league? Has he already peeked? If there were only some explanation for hate. Can anyone make sense of this?
I like LJax. He's had a historic regular season campaign playing QB in the NFL in a way I've never seen.
But I don't actually interpret the criticism of LJax as hate. There is legitimate argument if he has the ability to be a pure passer when that's what is required to win a game. Because right now LJax looks like a race horse that has the best chance to win when on the lead, going wire to wire.
He's going to be a great case study going forward.
Every team has better chance to win with the lead...
We have seen growth in his passing game year one to year 2.
More than a little?
Year 2 offensive production for him was insane.
I find it more than a little odd we are criticizing him for the the team's loss. I can find a lot of worse playoff games than Jackson's yesterday from HoF pocket passing QBs.
I think you have to be more than impressed with his career so far if you are fair.
You are a tough guy to understand. You are now preaching patience with Jackson, but yet, you would already be looking to draft his replacement so you don't have to pay him in free agency.
I'm not preaching patience with Jackson. I don't have to, he had a great year and Baltimore is a competitor with him now.
Unfortunately, he now has this playoff albatross around his neck. And it's not going away.
Tennessee was just the wrong match-up for the Ravens. That defense was designed on the back-end to deal with the Chiefs, Pats, Texans, etc. Teams with QBs who can spread it out and force you to cover multiple passing packages. But they are not big up front and go abused by an OL who is hitting on all cylinders right now.
He has a playoff Albatross? Pretty sure Eli Manning was 0-2 in his first 2 playoff games. Peyton started off 0-3. And a shit ton of other QB's. He's an amazing player. Somebody has to lose.
are in the playoffs, you are going to face defenses like that every year. If you are a player that an opposing D can neutralize, then there will be struggles.
what SD and TENN both did to Jackson is to force him to make throws that he struggles at. Contain the run and force things outside. Not all defenses can do that.
Oddly enough, I think the Titan Ds won with their back seven. Their safeties Byard and Ryan were great being aggressive and attacking the LOS to try to manage Lamar's running. And then their corners showed up, especially in the red zone...
e has a playoff Albatross? Pretty sure Eli Manning was 0-2 in his first 2 playoff games. Peyton started off 0-3. And a shit ton of other QB's. He's an amazing player. Somebody has to lose.
I'm sure there are more example than just Peyton. But this is back to back years losing at home, and this year as the top seed. So, yes, an albatross. And it's a common thing for great players who have yet to excel in the playoffs...
are in the playoffs, you are going to face defenses like that every year. If you are a player that an opposing D can neutralize, then there will be struggles.
what SD and TENN both did to Jackson is to force him to make throws that he struggles at. Contain the run and force things outside. Not all defenses can do that.
Oddly enough, I think the Titan Ds won with their back seven. Their safeties Byard and Ryan were great being aggressive and attacking the LOS to try to manage Lamar's running. And then their corners showed up, especially in the red zone...
Agreed. Ingram being limited was a huge factor too. Baltimore abandoned the traditional run way too early.
Every team has better chance to win with the lead...
We have seen growth in his passing game year one to year 2.
More than a little?
Year 2 offensive production for him was insane.
I find it more than a little odd we are criticizing him for the the team's loss. I can find a lot of worse playoff games than Jackson's yesterday from HoF pocket passing QBs.
I think you have to be more than impressed with his career so far if you are fair.
I have raved - no pun intended - about LJax's play all year. He had a remarkable year.
But I think it's fair to ask these tough questions about his playoff performance.
This year it seemed like it was all system go for the Ravens...
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In comment 14774626 WillVAB said:
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In comment 14774549 Gatorade Dunk said:
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In comment 14774442 djm said:
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NFL in January is different. The nfl landscape is littered with athletic mvp type QBs that crumble in January. I don’t care anyone says but but these athletic QBs they aren’t very cerebral will struggle against big time defenses in January. The facts are the facts. The history is there for all to see. Jackson might win big one day. But he’s going to need to adjust and adapt. Same rule applies to deshaun watson. These QBs who drop back to pass and immediately go into fight or flight mode, and eschew true pocket play will never go far this time of year. Defenses and coaching are too good. They eat that style up for lunch. Adapt or go the way of so many before you. And eventually the regular season NFL will catch up to them too. This has been happening for decades.
Oooh, a little subtle bit of racism there from the captain of the cheerleading squad.
Athletic QBs are, by definition, less cerebral? I haven't seen you question Jones's brain, yet he's every bit as athletic as Watson. Curious choice of examples of athletic QBs being less cerebral.
Lamar Jackson rocked a 13 on the Wonderlic. It’s not a “subtle hint of racism” — he’s just fucking dumb.
You are troll and bring nothing to the table.
I’m a troll? You’re a fucking clown who adds nothing of interest here.
Snazzy comeback
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In comment 14774442 djm said:
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NFL in January is different. The nfl landscape is littered with athletic mvp type QBs that crumble in January. I don’t care anyone says but but these athletic QBs they aren’t very cerebral will struggle against big time defenses in January. The facts are the facts. The history is there for all to see. Jackson might win big one day. But he’s going to need to adjust and adapt. Same rule applies to deshaun watson. These QBs who drop back to pass and immediately go into fight or flight mode, and eschew true pocket play will never go far this time of year. Defenses and coaching are too good. They eat that style up for lunch. Adapt or go the way of so many before you. And eventually the regular season NFL will catch up to them too. This has been happening for decades.
Oooh, a little subtle bit of racism there from the captain of the cheerleading squad.
Athletic QBs are, by definition, less cerebral? I haven't seen you question Jones's brain, yet he's every bit as athletic as Watson. Curious choice of examples of athletic QBs being less cerebral.
Lamar Jackson rocked a 13 on the Wonderlic. It’s not a “subtle hint of racism” — he’s just fucking dumb.
Dan Marino didn't do a lot better, and Johnny Football had a higher score than Peyton Manning. The Wonderlic is meaningless.
I'll submit Baltimore lost yesterday for a much more basic reason. They haven't played meaningful football in weeks and were out of sync. We've seen THAT happen before with all sorts of teams.
Either
A) they get hurt
or
B) you inevitably run into a Playoff D that smacks the piss out of you
Fun to watch but ultimately won't get it done.
Ravens got outcoached just like the Pats did last week
1 season doesn't mean he's a superstar,especially in this league.The whole offense is built around him.Kinda reminds me of what they did with Robert Griffin.You should know all about that.
But anyway,every time I watch this guy,I ask my self,"Have they never seen a running quarterback before?".I guess Tennessee finally had enough.
Of course the entire offense is built around LJax. His unique skills dictate that. And the Ravens deserve credit for not treating LJax as a square peg to try to fit him into some round hole.
Look, if you can't see that he's more than a running QB than there isn't much else to discuss. His job is to score points - and he did that 36X via pass and 7X by running this season. Which will result in the league MVP.
Does he need to continue to hone his passing skills? Sure. He's not a guy you'd use to make a QB textbook or a video on QB fundamentals. But he's getting there. And I like his chances of one day seguing from a pass/run QB to a mobile, passing QB...
Sound like a asinine fact/statistic? Well, it is. About as asinine as some of the other points on this thread people are trying to make about the results of one playoff game.
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don’t care anyone says but but these athletic QBs they aren’t very cerebral will struggle against big time defenses in January
It should read as “but these athletic QBs THAT aren’t very cerebral will struggle.” So maybe you were so quick to play the horse shit race card because “THEY aren’t very cerebral” might give someone the urge to go there, ok, you’re still awful quick to the trigger.
Not every athletic qb is black. Not every athletic qb isn’t cerebral. Happy now?
Yes, the difference between "they" and "that" is very significant. I apologize for jumping to that conclusion, and appreciate you seeing how that typo does dramatically change the implication of your post.
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Keep the same energy if Jones is bad in his first two playoff games.
You do realize this board has taken a dump for the past several years on our 2-time SB MVP QB.
Do you really not think Jones is going to be Teflon if he sucks in the playoffs? This place will be Defcon5.
Regarding Jackson, the guy is in likely the best place he can be to succeed. Baltimore has built the offense and gameplan around him. But it is still a gimmicky run-heavy offense that when that running threat becomes neutralized, Jackson isn't going to beat you through the air.
The playoffs every year have strong defenses that can make a player 1-dimensional.
Fatman: I gotta say, you say a lot of stupid shit, however, this was actually a really good post!! Good job!!
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In comment 14774600 ajr2456 said:
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Keep the same energy if Jones is bad in his first two playoff games.
You do realize this board has taken a dump for the past several years on our 2-time SB MVP QB.
Do you really not think Jones is going to be Teflon if he sucks in the playoffs? This place will be Defcon5.
Regarding Jackson, the guy is in likely the best place he can be to succeed. Baltimore has built the offense and gameplan around him. But it is still a gimmicky run-heavy offense that when that running threat becomes neutralized, Jackson isn't going to beat you through the air.
The playoffs every year have strong defenses that can make a player 1-dimensional.
Fatman: I gotta say, you say a lot of stupid shit, however, this was actually a really good post!! Good job!!
Especially this, "The playoffs every year have strong defenses that can make a player 1-dimensional".
I do think we'll see the difference between Mahomes and Jackson this coming week.
I don't know if KC will win, but I think that Mahomes will still play very well
What has he won? Nothing. Because he's played 2 fucking years in the NFL. He might never win anything. Who knows? Saying stuff like that just makes you look dumb. What QB has won as a rookie or 2nd year player?
Bingo. It’s pathetic/ a lot about people who are taking victory laps. Guys been in the league two freakin years
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People are so fucking dumb. I think Lamar is overrated as a player, but judging him off of two playoff losses as a 1st and 2nd year player is really fucking absurd. He's 23 years old and got beat by a team that just beat the best QB & HC of all time.
What has he won? Nothing. Because he's played 2 fucking years in the NFL. He might never win anything. Who knows? Saying stuff like that just makes you look dumb. What QB has won as a rookie or 2nd year player?
Bingo. It’s pathetic/ a lot about people who are taking victory laps. Guys been in the league two freakin years
While I wouldn't call Jackson a failure after two season, hell the guy is likely to be league MVP, his playoff performance was not good. He was only barely over 50% completion percentage. He did have several drops even if some of the passes were inaccurate. His legs are still his meal ticket and they are only going to take him so far and seeing as how he failed to get two first downs on 4th and 1 they let him down. He must improve his passing accuracy. He looked very good on deep balls. He has a very strong arm, but his short passing was pretty awful - some of the ugliest passes since Tim Tebow. I don't know why that is happening. Looks like he is just not trusting his arm to the outside. The balls he throws deep are beautiful. So why is that. I think more confidence will improve his accuracy.
He has a bright future, but he has to work hard to get his accuracy up with a better spiral. He will not progress without improving his throwing.
He is exactly what he has always been...a dynamic running threat and a good thrower to the center of the field. Tenn did a great job of stopping the run and clogging the middle passing lanes and Jackson did struggle a little going to the sidelines but there was also some really good coverage.
Tenn deserves a ton of credit for their defensive gameplan but Jackson is still an absolute weapon who puts a lot of pressure on you. My concern if I was a Ravens fan though are how long his body can take this kind of a pounding. He showed himself to be tough this year though.
In a playoff game though often times you need some luck (Eli to Tyree) or someone to step up in a tough situation and make a play (Eli to Manningham). That's why Eli is a hall of famer.
Can Jackson do that? I still wouldn't bet against it.
During the season Jackson had good to excellent performances against KC, NE, HOU, SEA, BUF, and SF. All but KC were wins. Are we saying that those teams weren't trying to win those games at the time like they would be in the playoffs? Sounds ridiculous.
More likely this loss can be attributed to:
- TEN being a hot team playing excellent football
- Baltimore being off after essentially taking two weeks off
- a poor gameplan that saw only 9 runs by Ravens running backs vs. 20 for Jackson and 59 passes; the injury to Ingram was also a factor
The people knocking Jackson would be doing cartwheels if we got half the production and wins from Daniel Jones. Much of the Jackson criticism feels like insecurity and sensitivity over how poorly the Barkley pick worked out.
During the season Jackson had good to excellent performances against KC, NE, HOU, SEA, BUF, and SF. All but KC were wins. Are we saying that those teams weren't trying to win those games at the time like they would be in the playoffs? Sounds ridiculous.
More likely this loss can be attributed to:
- TEN being a hot team playing excellent football
- Baltimore being off after essentially taking two weeks off
- a poor gameplan that saw only 9 runs by Ravens running backs vs. 20 for Jackson and 59 passes; the injury to Ingram was also a factor
The people knocking Jackson would be doing cartwheels if we got half the production and wins from Daniel Jones. Much of the Jackson criticism feels like insecurity and sensitivity over how poorly the Barkley pick worked out.
Really sounds of misplaced nonsense on your part denigrating Barkley.
Jackson had a great year up until he didn't. You'd be better served singing Jackson's praises (there are many for the likely MVP) then knocking Barkley every chance you get. Lamar had a better year than most thought he would.
But he absolutely needs to address his throwing issues and then maybe he would not need to run so much. Granted his legs are a weapon and his advantage. It was fun watching him start and stop on a dime, almost comical watching Titan's defenders trying to herd him and try to tackle him. But do not gloss over his glaring throwing issues.
Yes Ingram's injury hurt, but let's not lose sight that Jackson is very much the best rushing back on that team. Watching the game I did not even notice he was out until they showed him with the wrap on his calf.
And as far as the dig on Jones, let's be clear that Jackson is Baltimore's offense. The entire offense is built around his running/scrambling ability. Jackson and Jones are two completely different players; nobody is Lamar Jackson, nobody is close. The closest is likely Mahomes and well - then there is Mahomes throwing ability vs Jackson's and that is not close.
Jackson is who Jackson is - an immense talent who needs to improve his throwing. There is no need to attempt to denigrate other players to prove your point.
Seems like you are the one trying to tie it to him:
It has to do with blowback vs. the hype machine. Just like it did with Tebow. Just like it did when people said Cam Newton was doing things nobody has ever seen. When you come to BBI and there was a thread started each week about Jackson's greatness, the reaction to that isn't about Barkley, it is wondering why there is the obsession with Jackson (which ironically probably points more to those threads starters trying to tie this to Barkley).
I just don't get why people need to crown guys before they take the crown. Why do we always have to be told we are watching the best things ever? Do we get a bonus for one-upping things? That's what this boils down to for many people.
But it was amusing for you to pull up last years' SD-Ravens playoff thread last week and call out those criticizing Jackson. Did that have to do with Barkley as well?
The people knocking Jackson would be doing cartwheels if we got half the production and wins from Daniel Jones. Much of the Jackson criticism feels like insecurity and sensitivity over how poorly the Barkley pick worked out.
I'm high on both and I don't see them as tied together...we could easily have traded back up into the first and got Lamar and had both so that's fairly irrelevant. We just missed on the eval which is fair, many other teams did too.
That being said, I think it is a fair eval to say Jackson is always going to be a huge risk to pick up an injury. He took way too many hits in that game and his limitations did show up a bit but agree, let's not apply one game judgements to a career. Jackson is doing great things.
Now that doesn't mean we can't recognize how great he was this year. We can and should - it was quite the season. It stops there though, no reason to crown him him, but I do think there's reason to get excited about how he can grow as a player. I usually don't find any harm in thinking X will be the next great player, doesn't harm anyone talking about it.
Linking this back to Barkley is so stupid. I define bringing Barkley up in a "Lamar Jackson doesn't walk on water" thread as insecure.
Without question.
of the league and put up 500 yards of offense himself in this game.
It wasn't a perfect game, but some of the takes in this thread are absolutely brutal.
Seems like you are the one trying to tie it to him:
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The people knocking Jackson would be doing cartwheels if we got half the production and wins from Daniel Jones. Much of the Jackson criticism feels like insecurity and sensitivity over how poorly the Barkley pick worked out.
It has to do with blowback vs. the hype machine. Just like it did with Tebow. Just like it did when people said Cam Newton was doing things nobody has ever seen. When you come to BBI and there was a thread started each week about Jackson's greatness, the reaction to that isn't about Barkley, it is wondering why there is the obsession with Jackson (which ironically probably points more to those threads starters trying to tie this to Barkley).
I just don't get why people need to crown guys before they take the crown. Why do we always have to be told we are watching the best things ever? Do we get a bonus for one-upping things? That's what this boils down to for many people.
But it was amusing for you to pull up last years' SD-Ravens playoff thread last week and call out those criticizing Jackson. Did that have to do with Barkley as well?
Period. Point-blank.
Now that doesn't mean we can't recognize how great he was this year. We can and should - it was quite the season. It stops there though, no reason to crown him him, but I do think there's reason to get excited about how he can grow as a player. I usually don't find any harm in thinking X will be the next great player, doesn't harm anyone talking about it.
Linking this back to Barkley is so stupid. I define bringing Barkley up in a "Lamar Jackson doesn't walk on water" thread as insecure.
Of course, Jackson is the league MVP. He had a phenomenal year.
I do think we'll see the difference between Mahomes and Jackson this coming week.
I don't know if KC will win, but I think that Mahomes will still play very well
100% Agree
During the season Jackson had good to excellent performances against KC, NE, HOU, SEA, BUF, and SF. All but KC were wins. Are we saying that those teams weren't trying to win those games at the time like they would be in the playoffs? Sounds ridiculous.
More likely this loss can be attributed to:
- TEN being a hot team playing excellent football
- Baltimore being off after essentially taking two weeks off
- a poor gameplan that saw only 9 runs by Ravens running backs vs. 20 for Jackson and 59 passes; the injury to Ingram was also a factor
The people knocking Jackson would be doing cartwheels if we got half the production and wins from Daniel Jones. Much of the Jackson criticism feels like insecurity and sensitivity over how poorly the Barkley pick worked out.
That drum doesn't need to be banged anymore. It should be obvious to everyone at this point.
What I'm pointing out is that there's a lot of insecurity over the way things have worked out since that draft and the controversial pick of a running back 2nd overall. That insecurity is what's led the usual suspects to knock Jackson when he finally gave them an opportunity to knock him. It's also why the same usual suspects never miss a shot to knock Darnold.
And to answer FMIC above, no one is "crowning" Jackson anything. The guy is going to win MVP, and QB'd an offense that scored 33 points per game. No one's putting him in the HOF yet, which is more than what I can say about people here talking about Barkley - who I've seen referred to as a future HOFer and compared to Barry freaking Sanders.
If Daniel Jones led the Giants to a 14-2 record and 33 points per game, would posters here be saying we should hold our horses on him? Of course not...Jones has a 3-9 record as a starter and people are already saying he's our franchise QB for 10-15 years.
Talk about crowning people prematurely...
Insecurity?? How about the plethora of posters who categorized Darnold as a can't miss prospect. Who said that not taking a QB will set the franchise back years? You literally have had some posters like Mook and Josh complain for two years that Darnold wasn't selected.
People don't like buying into false narratives and hyperbole. It really shouldn't be that much more complicated. You'll have blowback when these things happen - similar to when we were told Cam Newton was doing things we haven't seen before (a topic you had a lot of fun with)
I mean, there was a motivation last week to repost the Chargers-Ravens playoff thread to make snide comments about how wrong the posters were on their takes on Jackson, right? It isn't nearly as funny this week, is it? you know why? Because many of those very same talking points held true for a second playoff game.
Well it cost us two years, so...
As for the Chargers thread, it's still very funny. Jackson is called "not an NFL QB" or something to that effect, and then he wins MVP and 1st team All-Pro as the QB of the highest scoring offense in the NFL. Definitely still funny.
But even funnier than that is that if he were a Giant, would you be saying the same thing? Of course not. You'd be preaching patience, as you do for the actual Giants which have been a disaster.
Above everything that's what drives me nuts. The blue glasses.
I like LJax. He's had a historic regular season campaign playing QB in the NFL in a way I've never seen.
But I don't actually interpret the criticism of LJax as hate. There is legitimate argument if he has the ability to be a pure passer when that's what is required to win a game. Because right now LJax looks like a race horse that has the best chance to win when on the lead, going wire to wire.
He's going to be a great case study going forward.
LOL.
Not taking a QB didn't set us back at all.
They moved the ball all day but the Titans produced turnovers, the most important one being the first pick which was a bit fortunate. And then they got two 4th down stops which basically turned the game after the Ravens had literally not been stopped on 4th down all season. They played bend but don't break. Credit to them, they got the win. But it's nothing like what the Chargers were able to do last year.
The talking points in that Ravens/Chargers thread look as silly to me now as they did before Saturday night.
I'm not preaching patience with Jackson. I don't have to, he had a great year and Baltimore is a competitor with him now.
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You are a tough guy to understand. You are now preaching patience with Jackson, but yet, you would already be looking to draft his replacement so you don't have to pay him in free agency.
I'm not preaching patience with Jackson. I don't have to, he had a great year and Baltimore is a competitor with him now.
Unfortunately, he now has this playoff albatross around his neck. And it's not going away.
Tennessee was just the wrong match-up for the Ravens. That defense was designed on the back-end to deal with the Chiefs, Pats, Texans, etc. Teams with QBs who can spread it out and force you to cover multiple passing packages. But they are not big up front and go abused by an OL who is hitting on all cylinders right now.
what SD and TENN both did to Jackson is to force him to make throws that he struggles at. Contain the run and force things outside. Not all defenses can do that.
Jackson left a lot of plays out there. The Ravens on the whole looked like an unmade bed...they reminded me of how the Giants came out after (essentially) a 2 week break against the Eagles in the '08 playoffs. But yeah, the playoff albatross is a fair point for Jackson now. Definitely.
It doesn't make the comments about him as an NFL QB any less ridiculous, though.
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Why are we hating on Jackson? He seems to have achieved a lot in a short time? Am I missing something? Is he a dick? He seems to work hard, his game has improved since entered the league? Has he already peeked? If there were only some explanation for hate. Can anyone make sense of this?
I like LJax. He's had a historic regular season campaign playing QB in the NFL in a way I've never seen.
But I don't actually interpret the criticism of LJax as hate. There is legitimate argument if he has the ability to be a pure passer when that's what is required to win a game. Because right now LJax looks like a race horse that has the best chance to win when on the lead, going wire to wire.
He's going to be a great case study going forward.
We have seen growth in his passing game year one to year 2.
More than a little?
Year 2 offensive production for him was insane.
I find it more than a little odd we are criticizing him for the the team's loss. I can find a lot of worse playoff games than Jackson's yesterday from HoF pocket passing QBs.
I think you have to be more than impressed with his career so far if you are fair.
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In comment 14776715 figgy2989 said:
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You are a tough guy to understand. You are now preaching patience with Jackson, but yet, you would already be looking to draft his replacement so you don't have to pay him in free agency.
I'm not preaching patience with Jackson. I don't have to, he had a great year and Baltimore is a competitor with him now.
Unfortunately, he now has this playoff albatross around his neck. And it's not going away.
Tennessee was just the wrong match-up for the Ravens. That defense was designed on the back-end to deal with the Chiefs, Pats, Texans, etc. Teams with QBs who can spread it out and force you to cover multiple passing packages. But they are not big up front and go abused by an OL who is hitting on all cylinders right now.
He has a playoff Albatross? Pretty sure Eli Manning was 0-2 in his first 2 playoff games. Peyton started off 0-3. And a shit ton of other QB's. He's an amazing player. Somebody has to lose.
what SD and TENN both did to Jackson is to force him to make throws that he struggles at. Contain the run and force things outside. Not all defenses can do that.
Oddly enough, I think the Titan Ds won with their back seven. Their safeties Byard and Ryan were great being aggressive and attacking the LOS to try to manage Lamar's running. And then their corners showed up, especially in the red zone...
I'm sure there are more example than just Peyton. But this is back to back years losing at home, and this year as the top seed. So, yes, an albatross. And it's a common thing for great players who have yet to excel in the playoffs...
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are in the playoffs, you are going to face defenses like that every year. If you are a player that an opposing D can neutralize, then there will be struggles.
what SD and TENN both did to Jackson is to force him to make throws that he struggles at. Contain the run and force things outside. Not all defenses can do that.
Oddly enough, I think the Titan Ds won with their back seven. Their safeties Byard and Ryan were great being aggressive and attacking the LOS to try to manage Lamar's running. And then their corners showed up, especially in the red zone...
Agreed. Ingram being limited was a huge factor too. Baltimore abandoned the traditional run way too early.
That drum doesn't need to be banged anymore. It should be obvious to everyone at this point.
Jackson had PLENTY of flags coming out of school - enough that 31 teams passed on him.
But since you are railing on the Giants for not taking him, I can only assume you equally rail on the 30 other teams as well?
Every team has better chance to win with the lead...
We have seen growth in his passing game year one to year 2.
More than a little?
Year 2 offensive production for him was insane.
I find it more than a little odd we are criticizing him for the the team's loss. I can find a lot of worse playoff games than Jackson's yesterday from HoF pocket passing QBs.
I think you have to be more than impressed with his career so far if you are fair.
I have raved - no pun intended - about LJax's play all year. He had a remarkable year.
But I think it's fair to ask these tough questions about his playoff performance.
This year it seemed like it was all system go for the Ravens...
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That drum doesn't need to be banged anymore. It should be obvious to everyone at this point.
Jackson had PLENTY of flags coming out of school - enough that 31 teams passed on him.
But since you are railing on the Giants for not taking him, I can only assume you equally rail on the 30 other teams as well?
A lot of teams made a mistake passing on Jackson. The problem with the Giants is that it was one of many mistakes.