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NFT: NHL Trade Rumors

Jay in Toronto : 1/12/2020 6:57 am
Tis the season, so I figured it would be helpful to start a thread.

NHL Draft rumors have Georgie and Andersson going to the Leafs (no sources cited) for Jeremy Bracco, Dmytro Timashov, and a 3rd round pick. Bracco is an Island kid and has the mark of the Rangers: RW good passer who've they've been trying to get to shoot more and work on his defense. I was hoping the Rangers would go for Andreas Johansson.


Rabgers: Georgiev and Andersson - ( New Window )
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Relating back to thread title and further to my OP  
Jay in Toronto : 1/13/2020 8:46 am : link
"Elliotte Friedman reported... that the Rangers are insisting on a good return and want a scoring forward who can help them as early as this year or next. That means an NHL player or a top prospect."

Agree that is the Ranger's most pressing need, which is why the prospects the Leafs are offering don't thrill me.
RE: Relating back to thread title and further to my OP  
pjcas18 : 1/13/2020 9:34 am : link
In comment 14776159 Jay in Toronto said:
Quote:
"Elliotte Friedman reported... that the Rangers are insisting on a good return and want a scoring forward who can help them as early as this year or next. That means an NHL player or a top prospect."

Agree that is the Ranger's most pressing need, which is why the prospects the Leafs are offering don't thrill me.

For who? Andersson? Georgiev? or the combination?
RE: RE: Relating back to thread title and further to my OP  
Jay in Toronto : 1/13/2020 9:51 am : link
In comment 14776268 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
In comment 14776159 Jay in Toronto said:


Quote:


"Elliotte Friedman reported... that the Rangers are insisting on a good return and want a scoring forward who can help them as early as this year or next. That means an NHL player or a top prospect."

Agree that is the Ranger's most pressing need, which is why the prospects the Leafs are offering don't thrill me.


For who? Andersson? Georgiev? or the combination?


See OP above
And Rangers  
pjcas18 : 1/13/2020 1:28 pm : link
fans want to blame Ruff.

holy shit, this sort of stuff happens every game.

I don't know if this was a communication issue between Hank and Skjei, if Skjei thought the ref was his defensive partner, or for some reason he thought going around the net somehow made sense.
Link - ( New Window )
One obvious miscommunication between the goalie and D...  
Torrag : 1/13/2020 1:34 pm : link
doesn't exonerate Ruff for a D corps that is a sieve. Blueshirts are 31st in shots against and PP goals against. Do they really have the 31st worst talent on D in the NHL? I don't think so.
Well this was 30 seconds into the game and  
pjcas18 : 1/13/2020 1:49 pm : link
like I mentioned it happens multiple times per game.

but no it doesn't, but what exactly do you think Ruff is teaching Skjei or Trouba? or anyone o D for that matter.

I honestly do not know, not going to lie, but Skjei and Trouba are 25 year old men. They have been playing hockey probably for 20 years, played in college and/or internationally for the US.

At this level most of what you are learning is systems.

Blaming D for shots against is one of the laziest statistical citations in the history of statistical citations.

But as mentioned hockey works in systems. They require understanding and buy-in of all 5 players on the ice and sometimes the goalie.

the systems define player roles and responsibilities for the breakout, attack and/or forecheck, neutral zone play, specials, set plays, etc.

Again, I'm not in the meetings, but it's my assumption Ruff is implementing Quinn's system. In my limited knowledge of the NHL inner workings I've never heard of a coach who has "his" system and allows the D coach to do his own thing.

I'm sure Ruff probably works with players on individual stuff, but not to the extent you see here.

Islanders are a good example. I thought Boychuk and Leddy forgot how to play hockey until Trotz took over, but notice how the credit in NYI for the low shots allowed doesn't get past Trotz.
...  
BrettNYG10 : 1/13/2020 1:53 pm : link
I agree that the Rangers don't have the least talent in the league defensively.

The forwards are generally atrocious defensively, though.

I do think that Trouba has been a disappointment. He can't be the teams best defenseman if they're going to compete.
RE: ...  
pjcas18 : 1/13/2020 2:09 pm : link
In comment 14776825 BrettNYG10 said:
Quote:
I agree that the Rangers don't have the least talent in the league defensively.

The forwards are generally atrocious defensively, though.

I do think that Trouba has been a disappointment. He can't be the teams best defenseman if they're going to compete.


Trouba is a better player than this, but he would not be the first one to NOT benefit from a change of scenery.

The big knock on him in WIN (by him) was he was playing sheltered minutes. Well, now he's not.

I do think he will get better and it will have nothing to do with Ruff. So, I hope it happens before Ruff gets let go, so people don't scapegoat him.

I'm not a fan of Ruff, but I'm a crusader against lazy analysis and scapegoating.
So what you're saying is Quinn is also to blame?  
Greg from LI : 1/13/2020 2:11 pm : link
You don't have to sell me on that. I think they both suck.
'I'm a crusader against lazy analysis '  
Torrag : 1/13/2020 2:15 pm : link
Essentially being last in two of the key indicators in how goals end up in the back of your net is 'lazy analysis'? When the talent available to you as a coach is better than that. How exactly does that add up?

I didn't go 'in depth' and discuss Quinn's system and the forwards role in the defensive issues. That doesn't mean the stated facts and conclusions are 'lazy'.

You really are an arrogant piece of work.
RE: So what you're saying is Quinn is also to blame?  
pjcas18 : 1/13/2020 2:25 pm : link
In comment 14776885 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
You don't have to sell me on that. I think they both suck.


Yes, exactly, I think Quinn is to blame if I had to blame someone (which I'm not eager to do). I think the problem lies mostly with the forwards - especially as it relates to the defense of Skjei and Trouba.
RE: 'I'm a crusader against lazy analysis '  
pjcas18 : 1/13/2020 2:27 pm : link
In comment 14776894 Torrag said:
Quote:
Essentially being last in two of the key indicators in how goals end up in the back of your net is 'lazy analysis'? When the talent available to you as a coach is better than that. How exactly does that add up?

I didn't go 'in depth' and discuss Quinn's system and the forwards role in the defensive issues. That doesn't mean the stated facts and conclusions are 'lazy'.

You really are an arrogant piece of work.


Oh, I'm arrogant?

Where is your evidence any of this is Ruff's fault?

Just show me one piece of solid evidence that Ruff has instructed the D to do one thing that is leading to most PK goals allowed and most shots against.

I'll wait.

You pushed me on the other thread for evidence for something I clearly said was my opinion, but now your speaking in absolutes, I try and suggest you might be wrong on that, but I'm the arrogant one.

Ok.
...  
BrettNYG10 : 1/13/2020 2:28 pm : link
NYR is in dire need of a true #1 dman. I think Trouba is a top pairing quality guy. Skjei would be fine on the 2nd pair IMO.

I think pj's right about the forwards, which to me suggests something is wrong with the system. Skjei in particular makes a lot of blind passes to areas where the forwards should be. It's sort of his fault, but the forwards need to make a play.
First let's stop with the name calling --  
Jay in Toronto : 1/13/2020 2:32 pm : link
ridiculous. Before you say stuff like, do a bit of self-analysis to get perspective on why your button was pushed.

I think the greatest need on the Rangers is wingers who can put the puck in the net (or at least try??)

PJ if I understand your point, if there is a problem here it's not Ruff but a) Quinn's system and/or b) The teams ability to implement it.

I hope it's not a) and b) will come with experience.
RE: ...  
figgy2989 : 1/13/2020 2:33 pm : link
In comment 14776926 BrettNYG10 said:
Quote:
NYR is in dire need of a true #1 dman. I think Trouba is a top pairing quality guy. Skjei would be fine on the 2nd pair IMO.


Which is what they thought they were getting when they signed Trouba.
RE: First let's stop with the name calling --  
pjcas18 : 1/13/2020 2:45 pm : link
In comment 14776937 Jay in Toronto said:
Quote:
ridiculous. Before you say stuff like, do a bit of self-analysis to get perspective on why your button was pushed.

I think the greatest need on the Rangers is wingers who can put the puck in the net (or at least try??)

PJ if I understand your point, if there is a problem here it's not Ruff but a) Quinn's system and/or b) The teams ability to implement it.

I hope it's not a) and b) will come with experience.


Yes, if I had to point a finger, in my experience it would be at a or b. I'm not sure which it is, but I'd blame one of those before trying to blame the assistant coach who is responsible for the defense.

Hockey systems are designed so that they work best when all the players function cohesively as a unit.

I hesitate to hold an assistant coach responsible for things that obviously appear to be communication issues.

The defense in most of these systems usually have a much simpler role than the forwards (in the defensive zone). As a D your options are usually limited to a few options on the breakout - a couple direct pass options, reverse the puck or skate it out, and then basically activate or not with the play, then the transition game and gap control - oversimplifying but generally speaking.

Forwards have a lot more thinking and it's sometimes why forwards take longer to grasp the defensive zone responsibilities.

I used the Islanders as an example. You only need to look at pre and post Trotz - do you think their D players at their ages just got better? Better assistant coach - coaching?
'Where is your evidence any of this is Ruff's fault?'  
Torrag : 1/13/2020 2:52 pm : link
We're not talking about opinions. We're talking about responsibility. Ruff is paid a lot of money to coach and prepare this defense. That includes communication for all the players involved. How do you think that's going? This stuff is so obvious it's stupid. Fault may lie in more than one place in this. Analytically it's a complex thing to breakdown in depth. How you could conclude Ruff isn't a major actor in it baffles me.

Do you believe that?

Or are you just being an ass? Again.
RE: RE: ...  
BrettNYG10 : 1/13/2020 2:53 pm : link
In comment 14776940 figgy2989 said:
Quote:
In comment 14776926 BrettNYG10 said:


Quote:


NYR is in dire need of a true #1 dman. I think Trouba is a top pairing quality guy. Skjei would be fine on the 2nd pair IMO.



Which is what they thought they were getting when they signed Trouba.


Yeah, I think that was a mistake. Trouba's a really good player, but I don't think he's a #1 dman.

I'm not excited about that contract for eight years.

And I'm with Torrag, pj sucks.
RE: 'Where is your evidence any of this is Ruff's fault?'  
pjcas18 : 1/13/2020 2:54 pm : link
In comment 14776986 Torrag said:
Quote:
We're not talking about opinions. We're talking about responsibility. Ruff is paid a lot of money to coach and prepare this defense. That includes communication for all the players involved. How do you think that's going? This stuff is so obvious it's stupid. Fault may lie in more than one place in this. Analytically it's a complex thing to breakdown in depth. How you could conclude Ruff isn't a major actor in it baffles me.

Do you believe that?

Or are you just being an ass? Again.


So, what exactly are Ruff's responsibilities as an assistant coach?
'Do you believe that?'  
Torrag : 1/13/2020 2:57 pm : link
Still waiting? Or do you just want to piss on each others boots all day?
RE: 'Do you believe that?'  
pjcas18 : 1/13/2020 3:00 pm : link
In comment 14777018 Torrag said:
Quote:
Still waiting? Or do you just want to piss on each others boots all day?


You have no idea what Ruff's job entails. You made assumptions based on his title and then made worse assumptions from there based on stats.

You can think what you want and insult who you want, you have quickly made your way to the top of my "ignore this poster" list.

Have a great day.
'You have no idea what Ruff's job entails.'  
Torrag : 1/13/2020 3:04 pm : link
Another bad conclusion on your part. They're coming fast and furious now.

So you obviously don't want to defend Ruff's performance. You just want to whine about other people's opinions.

Got it. Thanks for your 'contribution' to an intelligent discussion of hockey today.

Moving on.
Geez you guys wanna see some leaky ass D  
Stu11 : 1/13/2020 6:06 pm : link
That gives away the puck like Santa Claus? Come to the Rock and catch a Devs game.
Some info on why Shero was let go  
Jay on the Island : 1/13/2020 7:23 pm : link
Ownership really liked Taylor Hall and were angered with Shero's lack of extension talks with him.

There were two other reasons that I strongly agree with. Shero relying on Schneider again this season after his struggles the previous few years and for bringing Hynes back.
Not a trade rumor  
pjcas18 : 1/14/2020 8:44 am : link
but this is great. I admit I didn't even know this rule until a couple years ago and in men's league playoffs we went to a shootout and one of the shooters lost the puck and the refs somehow knew (they're usually drunk and disinterested).
Link - ( New Window )
RE: Some info on why Shero was let go  
Default : 1/14/2020 9:16 am : link
In comment 14777637 Jay on the Island said:
Quote:
Ownership really liked Taylor Hall and were angered with Shero's lack of extension talks with him.

There were two other reasons that I strongly agree with. Shero relying on Schneider again this season after his struggles the previous few years and for bringing Hynes back.


Extending Hynes and holding on to him to the point the season was lost was a fireable offense in itself.
.  
pjcas18 : 1/14/2020 10:01 am : link
Chris Johnston
@reporterchris
1h
Nicklas Backstrom signs a $46M, five-year extension with the #caps. He negotiated the new contract by himself.
Crosby  
pjcas18 : 1/14/2020 11:16 am : link
back tonight
Some good stories in the NHL this year  
pjcas18 : 1/14/2020 11:20 am : link
but if the Penguins maintain, I think Mike Sullivan has a lock on coach of the year.

Murray has been a debacle.
Kessel gone
Crosby missed a ton of time
Guentzel out for the year

probably more I don't know not being a Pens fan...

Quote:
John Shannon
@JShannonhl
5m
Sidney Crosby returns to the Penguins that went 18-6-4 without him in the line-up.
...  
BrettNYG10 : 1/14/2020 11:23 am : link
Do you really want Crosby on your team? - Steve Simmons after the Pens lose tonight
Someone  
pjcas18 : 1/14/2020 11:37 am : link
is going to 100% write the "Penguins should trade Crosby" story.
RE: .  
pjcas18 : 1/14/2020 2:54 pm : link
In comment 14778463 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
Chris Johnston
@reporterchris
1h
Nicklas Backstrom signs a $46M, five-year extension with the #caps. He negotiated the new contract by himself.


This is just sinking in. Backstrom is his own agent and at 33+ he negotiated $9M+ per year for 5 years.

I love Backstrom - quietly underrated - but that's a lot of cash for a pass first guy over 33 year old for 5 years.

He clearly probably won't need the money, but he should consider a career as an agent when his playing days are done.
It took you five hours to divide 45 by 5?  
BrettNYG10 : 1/14/2020 2:59 pm : link
Impressive.

I didn't realize his previous cap hit was only $6.7. If the cap were to stay flat next year, his cap hit would be 11.3% of the cap. The year one hit from his previous contract was 10.97%.

Capitals probably have 3-4 years left in their window anyway. So I don't think it's that bad.
RE: It took you five hours to divide 45 by 5?  
pjcas18 : 1/14/2020 3:08 pm : link
In comment 14778954 BrettNYG10 said:
Quote:
Impressive.

I didn't realize his previous cap hit was only $6.7. If the cap were to stay flat next year, his cap hit would be 11.3% of the cap. The year one hit from his previous contract was 10.97%.

Capitals probably have 3-4 years left in their window anyway. So I don't think it's that bad.


Well I had to take my shoes off and I was in a meeting.

It won't be bad if Backstrom produces the same way the next 5 years as he does today.

Hence the risk. He's 33. Some people like Chara or Marleau last forever, for others the end comes quick.
I see what you're saying, for sure.  
BrettNYG10 : 1/14/2020 3:21 pm : link
The core of that team is all around the same age, though. I think you hope you can get 3-4 years out of all of them before crashing and burning.
RE: I see what you're saying, for sure.  
pjcas18 : 1/14/2020 3:37 pm : link
In comment 14778995 BrettNYG10 said:
Quote:
The core of that team is all around the same age, though. I think you hope you can get 3-4 years out of all of them before crashing and burning.


Not saying i wouldn't do it, just saying it's risky.

I think the Penguins have a similar model. Ride Crosby and Malkin until the train breaks down.

I think Backstrom contract is right around the same as Malkin. Malkins was signed earlier so the latest is always more, but for reference (and Malkin only has 2 years left).

Wouldn't argue with either as a strategy, but I do hope (for my own selfish reasons) both wind up in cap hell.

Caps are up against it now. They'll need to make some moves if they want to add at all at the deadline.

And Ovi has just one year left.
...  
BrettNYG10 : 1/14/2020 3:40 pm : link
I was actually wondering if they let Holtby walk given the cap situation.
RE: ...  
pjcas18 : 1/14/2020 3:51 pm : link
In comment 14779031 BrettNYG10 said:
Quote:
I was actually wondering if they let Holtby walk given the cap situation.


Holtby is almost definitely a goner IMO. Without Holtby they are already at around $11M in space for next year - without a full roster.

I wouldn't be surprised with a 50/50 split in net the rest of the way. Last 12 games was Holtby 7, Samsonov 5.

All things considered I think Samsonov is the better fit anyway.
Tuuka  
pjcas18 : 1/14/2020 8:02 pm : link
just got elbowed in the head, looked intentional to me.

Tkachuk hits on Kassian were over the line and Tkachuk got called to defend them, this is worse IMO and 100% intention.
Link - ( New Window )
Bruins must have seen the replay  
pjcas18 : 1/14/2020 8:30 pm : link
Nordstrom was the 2nd Bruin player to go after Bemstrom. He, like Tkachuk, did not want to answer for his actions.
Holy shit Crosby  
pjcas18 : 1/14/2020 9:51 pm : link
I had to watch this 10 times at this speed to see everything he did in this sequence.
Link - ( New Window )
@adriandater  
Carl in CT : 1/14/2020 10:46 pm : link
Avs very interested in Kreider if Rangers (are filling) to eat some salary in right deal.
Marchand responds to the internet  
pjcas18 : 1/15/2020 8:45 am : link
hate he's getting for the shootout flub.

I think it's funny, but apparently he's getting flak for this.

Quote:
Brad Marchand
@Bmarch63
19h
Replying to @BleedingTeal
Your shootout is in your driveway not the NHL peasant. You pretend to be me in your back yard dream big bud
Filip Forsberg the latest  
pjcas18 : 1/15/2020 9:16 am : link
to score a "lacrosse" goal. I like the skill involved - though I feel like if I was on the opposing team I'd do whatever I could to flatten the guy who tried it - maybe they are trying.

the worst thing about is now all the kids I coach in the pre-practice free time when they used to work on their shots, now they all want to do is try this.

Linked below.
Link - ( New Window )
Draft rankings from  
pjcas18 : 1/15/2020 9:26 am : link
@thehockeyexpert

first person I've seen where Stutzle has passed Byfield.

Lafreniere is the crown jewel of the draft, and plug in immediately player who should have an impact very quickly, but if I pick top 5 in this draft and wind up with Byfield I would be thrilled.

top 15:
1. Lafreniere (LW)
2. Stutzle (C/LW)
3. Byfield (C)
4. Raymond (W)
5. Drysdale (RD)
6. Rossi (C)
7. Holtz (W)
8. Lundell (C/LW)
9. Perfetti (C/LW)
10. Gunler (W)
11. Askarov (G)
12. Mercer (RW)
13. Mysak (LW)
14. Holloway (C/LW)
15. Zary (C)

Link - ( New Window )
RE: Marchand responds to the internet  
BrettNYG10 : 1/15/2020 9:27 am : link
In comment 14779876 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
hate he's getting for the shootout flub.

I think it's funny, but apparently he's getting flak for this.



Quote:


Brad Marchand
@Bmarch63
19h
Replying to @BleedingTeal
Your shootout is in your driveway not the NHL peasant. You pretend to be me in your back yard dream big bud



First likable thing Marchand's ever done.
RE: RE: Marchand responds to the internet  
Jay in Toronto : 1/15/2020 9:40 am : link
In comment 14779939 BrettNYG10 said:
Quote:
In comment 14779876 pjcas18 said:


Quote:


hate he's getting for the shootout flub.

I think it's funny, but apparently he's getting flak for this.



Quote:


Brad Marchand
@Bmarch63
19h
Replying to @BleedingTeal
Your shootout is in your driveway not the NHL peasant. You pretend to be me in your back yard dream big bud





First likable thing Marchand's ever done.


Man, what a low bar for 'likable'.

Don't think I want to hear your take on the Third Reich.
....  
BrettNYG10 : 1/15/2020 10:15 am : link
Hahaha
another head coach fired  
Burt64 : 1/15/2020 10:43 am : link
BREAKING: Las Vegas have fired head coach Gerard Gallant, name Peter DeBoer as new head coach
Kovalchuk  
pjcas18 : 1/16/2020 9:36 pm : link
seems to have found the fountain of youth. He looks probably like what the Kings hoped for when they paid him.

He's playing at an elite level (SSS)
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