Big Blue Interactive The Corner Forum  
Back to the Corner

Archived Thread

Giants Hire Graham as DC

BeckShepEli : 1/12/2020 5:19 pm
Per NFL Network
Hmmmm  
Shock-Man : 1/12/2020 5:20 pm : link
🤔
Yes..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 1/12/2020 5:20 pm : link
bring on the white Yale guy!!
.  
BeckShepEli : 1/12/2020 5:20 pm : link
Tom Pelissero is reporting
Verified?  
Big Blue Blogger : 1/12/2020 5:21 pm : link
If so, please sticky.
Yeah  
jeff57 : 1/12/2020 5:22 pm : link
.
Link - ( New Window )
The Kent Graham?  
BUgiantfan : 1/12/2020 5:22 pm : link
Seriously, I have no idea who this is.
...  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 1/12/2020 5:22 pm : link
Tom Pelissero
@TomPelissero
The #Giants are hiring Patrick Graham as their defensive coordinator, source said.
RE: The Kent Graham?  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 1/12/2020 5:23 pm : link
In comment 14775414 BUgiantfan said:
Quote:
Seriously, I have no idea who this is.


Read the front page.
. .. .  
jeff57 : 1/12/2020 5:24 pm : link
Wagner (2002Ė2003)
Graduate assistant

Richmond (2004)
Defensive line coach

Richmond (2005Ė2006)
Tight ends coach

Notre Dame (2007Ė2008)
Graduate assistant

Toledo (2009)
Defensive line

New England Patriots (2009)
Coaching assistant

New England Patriots (2010)
Defensive assistant

New England Patriots (2011)
Linebackers coach

New England Patriots (2012Ė2013)
Defensive line coach

New England Patriots (2014Ė2015)
Linebackers coach

New York Giants (2016Ė2017)
Defensive line coach

Green Bay Packers (2018)
Linebackers coach & run game coordinator

Miami Dolphins (2019)
Defensive coordinator

New York Giants (2020-Present)
Defensive coordinator
...  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 1/12/2020 5:24 pm : link
Tom Pelissero
@TomPelissero

2m
The #Dolphins are expected to promote Josh Boyer to defensive coordinator, sources say. He replaces Patrick Graham, whoís leaving to become the #Giantsí DC.
Pat Grahamís Wiki page  
cosmicj : 1/12/2020 5:24 pm : link
Believe it or not, itís already been updated.

Patrick Graham - ( New Window )
Guess weíre staying in a 3-4  
jeff57 : 1/12/2020 5:24 pm : link
.
....  
ryanmkeane : 1/12/2020 5:24 pm : link
guess this is a ďwait and seeĒ kinda move but heís well regarded around the league as an up and comer. Like his experience with linebackers as well.
Why did Miami  
section125 : 1/12/2020 5:25 pm : link
let him go?
Yale grad  
Pete in MD : 1/12/2020 5:26 pm : link
who almost joined the CIA. Bonesman?
Background in dl and lb units  
Nine-Tails : 1/12/2020 5:26 pm : link
Hoping he helps in improving our front seven. Seems to have done good work as position coach. You can't really blame him for the Dolphins defensive performance considering their lack of talent.
RE: Guess weíre staying in a 3-4  
cjac : 1/12/2020 5:26 pm : link
In comment 14775422 jeff57 said:
Quote:
.


Not based on what Judge said after his press conference
RE: Why did Miami  
Jolly Blue Giant : 1/12/2020 5:26 pm : link
In comment 14775424 section125 said:
Quote:
let him go?

Thatís the million dollar question.
RE: Why did Miami  
jeff57 : 1/12/2020 5:27 pm : link
In comment 14775424 section125 said:
Quote:
let him go?


They didnít,
If Carl Banks likes him  
joeinpa : 1/12/2020 5:27 pm : link
Good enough for me. Actually value his opinion over any poster, no offense intended.
RE: RE: Why did Miami  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 1/12/2020 5:28 pm : link
In comment 14775429 jeff57 said:
Quote:
In comment 14775424 section125 said:


Quote:


let him go?



They didnít,


They did. The Giants needed the permission of the Dolphins to even talk to him.
RE: Yes..  
Biteymax22 : 1/12/2020 5:29 pm : link
In comment 14775406 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
bring on the white Yale guy!!


I canít tell if this is sarcastic or not...
This is a combination  
Matt in SGS : 1/12/2020 5:29 pm : link
of anyone but James Bettcher and I like that the Giants are letting Judge pick his guys. Clearly he wanted to work with him again and it works out. Also, up until his late season surge, the best football Tomlinson played was under Graham as a rookie.
Seems like a decent hire  
MookGiants : 1/12/2020 5:30 pm : link
but the Dolphins letting him leave is concerning.
Ironically, he was torched in Miami...  
Big Blue Blogger : 1/12/2020 5:30 pm : link
... for failing to find creative ways to generate a pass rush. So he should feel at home here.
Miami Herald: Graham feels the heat for lack of heat. - ( New Window )
RE: RE: Why did Miami  
section125 : 1/12/2020 5:30 pm : link
In comment 14775429 jeff57 said:
Quote:
In comment 14775424 section125 said:


Quote:


let him go?



They didnít,


He was their DC. Gave the Giants permission to interview. They let him leave.
RE: RE: RE: Why did Miami  
jeff57 : 1/12/2020 5:30 pm : link
In comment 14775432 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
In comment 14775429 jeff57 said:


Quote:


In comment 14775424 section125 said:


Quote:


let him go?



They didnít,



They did. The Giants needed the permission of the Dolphins to even talk to him.


Oh, I thought the claim was that Miami had fired him.
Miamiís defense was bad (even if it improved somewhat)  
Essex : 1/12/2020 5:31 pm : link
and Miami didnít want to keep him. Those are legit questions, doesnít mean he is bad or sucks or whatever, just curious about it.

And the fact that Banks likes him doesnít cancel out that Flores, an up and coming coach, did not apparently value him enough to block this.
RE: RE: Yes..  
Del Shofner : 1/12/2020 5:32 pm : link
In comment 14775437 Biteymax22 said:
Quote:
In comment 14775406 FatMan in Charlotte said:


Quote:


bring on the white Yale guy!!



I canít tell if this is sarcastic or not...


Trust me, it is.
It could be Flores helping his friend Judge  
Jay on the Island : 1/12/2020 5:33 pm : link
Because he feels Boyer is ready for a promotion.
Not impressed  
jeff57 : 1/12/2020 5:33 pm : link
But I wasnít impressed with the Judge hiring either
RE: Yes..  
Big Blue Blogger : 1/12/2020 5:34 pm : link
FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
bring on the white Yale guy!!
That might be JAEDEN Graham (the Falcon tight end).
Might as well hire Chad OíShea  
jeff57 : 1/12/2020 5:34 pm : link
As the OC. Would make the NE/Miami connection complete.
Not adding anything to the discussion but he shares a birthday  
BestFeature : 1/12/2020 5:35 pm : link
with Sean McVay.
I hope he hires a former HC for OC  
Essex : 1/12/2020 5:37 pm : link
experience matters
RE: Ironically, he was torched in Miami...  
Jay on the Island : 1/12/2020 5:37 pm : link
In comment 14775442 Big Blue Blogger said:
Quote:
... for failing to find creative ways to generate a pass rush. So he should feel at home here. Miami Herald: Graham feels the heat for lack of heat. - ( New Window )

The Phins pass rush is so bad it makes the giants look like 49ers. Avery Moss was the opening day starting at one OLB spot across from bust Charles Harris.
I donít  
cokeduplt : 1/12/2020 5:37 pm : link
Love this, but what do I know, hopefully heís great
RE: It could be Flores helping his friend Judge  
Tim in Eternal Blue : 1/12/2020 5:38 pm : link
In comment 14775449 Jay on the Island said:
Quote:
Because he feels Boyer is ready for a promotion.


This is exactly what I thought
They had some injuries, but that Dolphins defense  
mikeinbloomfield : 1/12/2020 5:38 pm : link
was extremely bad. They had the kind of year where guys get fired and you donít hear from them again, not given higher profile jobs. Last in the league in scoring defense. Last in the league according to Football Outsiders.
RE: It could be Flores helping his friend Judge  
Big Blue '56 : 1/12/2020 5:38 pm : link
In comment 14775449 Jay on the Island said:
Quote:
Because he feels Boyer is ready for a promotion.


I think that makes the most sense. Graham wanted to return to NY and work with Judge. Theyíre all friends. Sometimes, even in sports, that matters. :)
RE: I hope he hires a former HC for OC  
Jay on the Island : 1/12/2020 5:39 pm : link
In comment 14775463 Essex said:
Quote:
experience matters

Iím hoping for Jay Gruden for OC and Bill Callahan OL coach.
...  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 1/12/2020 5:41 pm : link
From Flores when he was hired by Miami: ďPat is a Yale guy. Heís extremely bright. He is great with the fundamentals and has very strong leadership ability. I canít say enough good things about him. We worked together in New England and I know the type of passion he has and the way he works. We have a lot of the same core values and beliefs from a defensive standpoint.Ē

He's a good guy and highly thought of...  
wma31 : 1/12/2020 5:41 pm : link
and he's a funny guy. Not that it makes a difference, but this is my best memory of him in Miami. lol
Link - ( New Window )
I thought the conventional wisdom  
RDJR : 1/12/2020 5:41 pm : link
was to have coordinators with previous head coaching experience?
Not sure about this - seems like a stretch  
PatersonPlank : 1/12/2020 5:41 pm : link
Ideally I'd like to take a flyer on someone from a successful team or program (like Judge), not Miami
RE: Not sure about this - seems like a stretch  
Jay on the Island : 1/12/2020 5:43 pm : link
In comment 14775477 PatersonPlank said:
Quote:
Ideally I'd like to take a flyer on someone from a successful team or program (like Judge), not Miami

Graham spent years in New England before his one season in Miami.
RE: They had some injuries, but that Dolphins defense  
Big Rick in FL : 1/12/2020 5:43 pm : link
In comment 14775468 mikeinbloomfield said:
Quote:
was extremely bad. They had the kind of year where guys get fired and you donít hear from them again, not given higher profile jobs. Last in the league in scoring defense. Last in the league according to Football Outsiders.


The Dolphins had the least talented defense in the NFL by far without injuries. Then they traded Minkah and lost Xavien Howard for the year.
Preference  
Shock-Man : 1/12/2020 5:43 pm : link
Would have been Aaron Glenn I think between the two.

Maybe there is still a way he gets involved
RE: ...  
twostepgiants : 1/12/2020 5:44 pm : link
In comment 14775474 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
From Flores when he was hired by Miami: ďPat is a Yale guy. Heís extremely bright. He is great with the fundamentals and has very strong leadership ability. I canít say enough good things about him. We worked together in New England and I know the type of passion he has and the way he works. We have a lot of the same core values and beliefs from a defensive standpoint.Ē


This is why he makes sense as a hire. judge needs someone who understands what he is trying instill here.
This is not an inspiring hire  
Tim in Eternal Blue : 1/12/2020 5:44 pm : link
. It's just not.
Keep in mind how  
crick n NC : 1/12/2020 5:44 pm : link
Many loved the bettcher hire.
RE: Not sure about this - seems like a stretch  
jeff57 : 1/12/2020 5:45 pm : link
In comment 14775477 PatersonPlank said:
Quote:
Ideally I'd like to take a flyer on someone from a successful team or program (like Judge), not Miami


A stretch kind of like the HC hire. But the important thing is what players they bring in for them to coach.Theyíre short of talent.
These were the Dolphins starters for the final Pats game  
Big Rick in FL : 1/12/2020 5:45 pm : link
Davon Godchaux DT
C. Wilkins DT
John Jenkins DT
Jerome Baker LB
A. Van Ginkel LB
Trent Harris LB
Calvin Munson LB
Nik Needham CB
Eric Rowe CB
Adrian Colbert S
Nate Brooks DB
RE: Preference  
jeff57 : 1/12/2020 5:46 pm : link
In comment 14775482 Shock-Man said:
Quote:
Would have been Aaron Glenn I think between the two.

Maybe there is still a way he gets involved


Well we knew that wouldnít happen.
I don't know much about Graham, so I'll just wait and see. As far as  
Ira : 1/12/2020 5:47 pm : link
the lack of sacks, it probably has something to do with the lack of pass rushers.
Why would Graham make a lateral move?  
Jint Fan in Buc Land : 1/12/2020 5:47 pm : link
I donít see this being discussed anywhere. Maybe I need to just eat something but I canít think of why would a talented guy with a lot of potential move on after one year to do the exact same thing for another bad team?
Eh, not an exciting hire  
ZogZerg : 1/12/2020 5:48 pm : link
I hope he gets a more experienced OC.
...  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 1/12/2020 5:48 pm : link
Art Stapleton
@art_stapleton

1m
Two years ago, a significant part of the Giants fan base was doing cartwheels over landing James Bettcher as defensive coordinator.

Just remember that as you're scrambling to form an opinion on Patrick Graham.
Ugh  
BleedBlue : 1/12/2020 5:48 pm : link
IDC if he is an "up and comer" this shit reeks.

I hope he works out but miamis defense was a joke, IDC if they tried to tank...good coaches do more with less. Their defense was a disaster.


Hope it works out but this guy isn't an exciting hire imo
...  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 1/12/2020 5:48 pm : link
Jordan Raanan
@JordanRaanan

20s
Interesting hire. One year as a defensive coordinator. Miami, with minimal talent, finished 30th in total defense this season. Giants players thought highly of Graham during his previous stint with team as DL coach.
RE: Why would Graham make a lateral move?  
Big Rick in FL : 1/12/2020 5:49 pm : link
In comment 14775502 Jint Fan in Buc Land said:
Quote:
I donít see this being discussed anywhere. Maybe I need to just eat something but I canít think of why would a talented guy with a lot of potential move on after one year to do the exact same thing for another bad team?


Because the Giants have a lot more talent on defense than the Dolphins.
RE: These were the Dolphins starters for the final Pats game  
John In CO : 1/12/2020 5:49 pm : link
In comment 14775493 Big Rick in FL said:
Quote:
Davon Godchaux DT
C. Wilkins DT
John Jenkins DT
Jerome Baker LB
A. Van Ginkel LB
Trent Harris LB
Calvin Munson LB
Nik Needham CB
Eric Rowe CB
Adrian Colbert S
Nate Brooks DB


And they won the damn game. Wow......
don't mind the move per se but in total betwen judge and graham  
MM_in_NYC : 1/12/2020 5:49 pm : link
we have 1 year of defensive side leadership in our coaching ranks. talk about trial by fire.
RE: Ugh  
Big Rick in FL : 1/12/2020 5:49 pm : link
In comment 14775508 BleedBlue said:
Quote:
IDC if he is an "up and comer" this shit reeks.

I hope he works out but miamis defense was a joke, IDC if they tried to tank...good coaches do more with less. Their defense was a disaster.


Hope it works out but this guy isn't an exciting hire imo


There isn't a DC in the NFL that had less.
Calvin Munson - Isn't that an X Giant  
ZogZerg : 1/12/2020 5:49 pm : link
?
RE: RE: Why would Graham make a lateral move?  
jeff57 : 1/12/2020 5:50 pm : link
In comment 14775512 Big Rick in FL said:
Quote:
In comment 14775502 Jint Fan in Buc Land said:


Quote:


I donít see this being discussed anywhere. Maybe I need to just eat something but I canít think of why would a talented guy with a lot of potential move on after one year to do the exact same thing for another bad team?



Because the Giants have a lot more talent on defense than the Dolphins.


A lot more?
Why does anyone go crazy regarding these decisions?  
DavidinBMNY : 1/12/2020 5:50 pm : link
We have no knowledge of these guys.

This is a coach who was employed in the league. One of 32 such jobs. He probably has strengths and weaknesses like everyone else.

Lets see what he brings to the table.

The likely reasons he was brought in align with what Judge laid out at his press conference.
RE: RE: Ugh  
BleedBlue : 1/12/2020 5:50 pm : link
In comment 14775516 Big Rick in FL said:
Quote:
In comment 14775508 BleedBlue said:


Quote:


IDC if he is an "up and comer" this shit reeks.

I hope he works out but miamis defense was a joke, IDC if they tried to tank...good coaches do more with less. Their defense was a disaster.


Hope it works out but this guy isn't an exciting hire imo



There isn't a DC in the NFL that had less.


Yea I agree. I agree. Hoping it works

RE: RE: RE: Why would Graham make a lateral move?  
Big Rick in FL : 1/12/2020 5:51 pm : link
In comment 14775519 jeff57 said:
Quote:
In comment 14775512 Big Rick in FL said:


Quote:


In comment 14775502 Jint Fan in Buc Land said:


Quote:


I donít see this being discussed anywhere. Maybe I need to just eat something but I canít think of why would a talented guy with a lot of potential move on after one year to do the exact same thing for another bad team?



Because the Giants have a lot more talent on defense than the Dolphins.



A lot more?


Yes. A lot more.
Steve Spagnuolo coached two defenses that were just as bad.  
Big Blue Blogger : 1/12/2020 5:51 pm : link
I think the 2012 Saints and 2015 Giants probably had more talent than the 2019 Dolphins. Also, after being outscored 163-26 in their first four games, the Dolphins were merely bad, not epically horrendous.
RE: Guess weíre staying in a 3-4  
KeoweeFan : 1/12/2020 5:52 pm : link
In comment 14775422 jeff57 said:
Quote:
.
Linked to one of the earlier posts when Graham was mentioned as a "possible" was an interview from when he was hired by Miami.
The reporter said (something like) "The big question now is do you run a 3-4 or a 4-3?"
Patrick answer was "Yes".
And then he explained that there will be no fixed scheme; it will change each week depending on the opponent. "If one games we have to play 11 guys with their hand in the dirt, that's what we will do if that's what it takes."
Sound familiar? (He also stressed teaching.)
RE: These were the Dolphins starters for the final Pats game  
Geomon : 1/12/2020 5:52 pm : link
In comment 14775493 Big Rick in FL said:
Quote:
Davon Godchaux DT
C. Wilkins DT
John Jenkins DT
Jerome Baker LB
A. Van Ginkel LB
Trent Harris LB
Calvin Munson LB
Nik Needham CB
Eric Rowe CB
Adrian Colbert S
Nate Brooks DB

Not a lot to work with there. Then again, not a lot to work with here either.
RE: Calvin Munson - Isn't that an X Giant  
aGiantGuy : 1/12/2020 5:52 pm : link
In comment 14775517 ZogZerg said:
Quote:
?

Calvin Munson was atrociously bad, yikes
RE: RE: It could be Flores helping his friend Judge  
Eman11 : 1/12/2020 5:53 pm : link
In comment 14775469 Big Blue '56 said:
Quote:
In comment 14775449 Jay on the Island said:


Quote:


Because he feels Boyer is ready for a promotion.



I think that makes the most sense. Graham wanted to return to NY and work with Judge. Theyíre all friends. Sometimes, even in sports, that matters. :)


Yeah that's my take too. Plus if the guy did want to return to NY why would Flores or any coach want a guy who would rather be somewhere else?

A man after my own heart.  
Klaatu : 1/12/2020 5:55 pm : link
"I'm loud because I'm big and fat."

Can't say I'm psyched. Frankly, I'm a little surprised by Judge's choice. But I was all-in on Bettcher, so what do I know?
RE: ...  
superspynyg : 1/12/2020 5:56 pm : link
In comment 14775474 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
From Flores when he was hired by Miami: ďPat is a Yale guy. Heís extremely bright. He is great with the fundamentals and has very strong leadership ability. I canít say enough good things about him. We worked together in New England and I know the type of passion he has and the way he works. We have a lot of the same core values and beliefs from a defensive standpoint.Ē


Again why did they let him leave?
Who knows?  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 1/12/2020 5:57 pm : link
I have no clue.
RE: RE: ...  
section125 : 1/12/2020 5:58 pm : link
In comment 14775541 superspynyg said:
Quote:
In comment 14775474 Eric from BBI said:


Quote:


From Flores when he was hired by Miami: ďPat is a Yale guy. Heís extremely bright. He is great with the fundamentals and has very strong leadership ability. I canít say enough good things about him. We worked together in New England and I know the type of passion he has and the way he works. We have a lot of the same core values and beliefs from a defensive standpoint.Ē




Again why did they let him leave?


Should be asked at the presser?
This is what he had to work with  
Big Rick in FL : 1/12/2020 5:59 pm : link
Davon Godchaux DT - 5th
Christian Wilkins DT - 1st
John Jenkins DT - 3rd
Jerome Baker LB - 3rd
Andrew Van Ginkel LB - 5th
Trent Harris LB - UDFA
Calvin Munson LB - UDFA
Nik Needham CB - UDFA
Eric Rowe CB - 2nd
Adrian Colbert S - 7th
Nate Brooks S - UDFA

7 guys who went after the 5th round or went Undrafted. A rookie DT. Another DT that's been on 5 teams in 7 years. A CB whose been on 3 teams in 5 years.

So anybody expecting results is just fooling themselves. Not a single DC in the NFL could have a consistently good defense with players like that.
...  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 1/12/2020 6:00 pm : link
Speaking of Bettcher, did any coordinator ever come to the Giants with higher expectations and fail as miserably as he did?
RE: He's a good guy and highly thought of...  
KeoweeFan : 1/12/2020 6:01 pm : link
In comment 14775475 wma31 said:
Quote:
and he's a funny guy. Not that it makes a difference, but this is my best memory of him in Miami. lol Link - ( New Window )

From what I've read, JJ and Graham share the same values and philosophies about teaching and flexiblity of schemes. Both are very intelligent.
However JJ appears to be wound kinda tight and Graham is loose.
Maybe they can team up as good guy, bad guy :).
RE: Calvin Munson - Isn't that an X Giant  
ColHowPepper : 1/12/2020 6:02 pm : link
In comment 14775517 ZogZerg said:
Quote:
?
So was John Jenkins, unless there are several and he was not
To get a feel for him  
UberAlias : 1/12/2020 6:02 pm : link
Talking about being multiple, just like Judge.
Link - ( New Window )
RE: ...  
ZogZerg : 1/12/2020 6:04 pm : link
In comment 14775562 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
Speaking of Bettcher, did any coordinator ever come to the Giants with higher expectations and fail as miserably as he did?


NO. He was a DISASTER. ALL TALK.
Keeping the 3-4?  
giantsfan227B : 1/12/2020 6:04 pm : link
Why mess with success. Oh wait.
RE: ...  
Klaatu : 1/12/2020 6:05 pm : link
In comment 14775562 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
Speaking of Bettcher, did any coordinator ever come to the Giants with higher expectations and fail as miserably as he did?


Not that I can recall. What were the expectations with Rod Rust?
Dont like  
muhajir : 1/12/2020 6:05 pm : link
this choice. Going down the same route Pats Coaches often take. Go to new team, then hire position coaches from the Pats and try to recreate the Belichek system. Doesn't work. The Pats are all Belichek. Everything there is Belichek. Offense, defense and everything in between.
We need legit Coordinators over here.
RE: Dont like  
Big Rick in FL : 1/12/2020 6:06 pm : link
In comment 14775583 muhajir said:
Quote:
this choice. Going down the same route Pats Coaches often take. Go to new team, then hire position coaches from the Pats and try to recreate the Belichek system. Doesn't work. The Pats are all Belichek. Everything there is Belichek. Offense, defense and everything in between.
We need legit Coordinators over here.


He's hired 1 Patriots coach. Who hasn't coached for the Patriots in 4 seasons.
Anyone who  
cjac : 1/12/2020 6:06 pm : link
Doesnít understand chemical engineering canít possibly be a good defensive coordinator
RE: Dont like  
Rory : 1/12/2020 6:07 pm : link
In comment 14775583 muhajir said:
Quote:
this choice. Going down the same route Pats Coaches often take. Go to new team, then hire position coaches from the Pats and try to recreate the Belichek system. Doesn't work. The Pats are all Belichek. Everything there is Belichek. Offense, defense and everything in between.
We need legit Coordinators over here.


how is he not a "legit coordinator"?

do you know what you're talking about?
RE: Dont like  
Ten Ton Hammer : 1/12/2020 6:08 pm : link
In comment 14775583 muhajir said:
Quote:
this choice. Going down the same route Pats Coaches often take. Go to new team, then hire position coaches from the Pats and try to recreate the Belichek system. Doesn't work. The Pats are all Belichek. Everything there is Belichek. Offense, defense and everything in between.
We need legit Coordinators over here.


All nfl coaches hire guys they know. Its how it works.
RE: This is what he had to work with  
Klaatu : 1/12/2020 6:08 pm : link
In comment 14775558 Big Rick in FL said:
Quote:
Davon Godchaux DT - 5th
Christian Wilkins DT - 1st
John Jenkins DT - 3rd
Jerome Baker LB - 3rd
Andrew Van Ginkel LB - 5th
Trent Harris LB - UDFA
Calvin Munson LB - UDFA
Nik Needham CB - UDFA
Eric Rowe CB - 2nd
Adrian Colbert S - 7th
Nate Brooks S - UDFA

7 guys who went after the 5th round or went Undrafted. A rookie DT. Another DT that's been on 5 teams in 7 years. A CB whose been on 3 teams in 5 years.

So anybody expecting results is just fooling themselves. Not a single DC in the NFL could have a consistently good defense with players like that.


Hmmm...somehow I don't think we'll be signing any of his former players to play for us.
Let him have the guys heís comfortable with  
Rflairr : 1/12/2020 6:08 pm : link
I just donít want him to now go and hire OíShea as OC. How crazy would it be having both Miami coordinators
It would nice if they brought in Wade Phillips as Asst Head Coach...  
Milton : 1/12/2020 6:09 pm : link
...but I'm not expecting it.
RE: RE: ...  
ColHowPepper : 1/12/2020 6:09 pm : link
In comment 14775582 Klaatu said:
Quote:
What were the expectations with Rod Rust?
Pretty damn high
here's a good article that explains the type of D judge likely wants  
Eric on Li : 1/12/2020 6:09 pm : link
it's from miami herald November 29th and explains very well a lot of what's different about the "NE system" (including why Minkah Fitzpatrick wanted out of it).

Quote:
Rowe, who has more experience with Flores than any player on the roster, said from his experience in New England for three years there and a season in Miami, believes most players exposed to the Belichick/Flores approach see the upside in it.

ďGenerally, people like it,Ē Rowe said. ďYou donít hear people complain. You donít hear anybody complain about, ĎOh my God, Iíve got a lot of assignments this week! How am I going to play?í They just study and get it done. No one really complains about it because we know weíre trying to take away their strengths. And the game is a lot easier when you take away their strengths.

ďWhoever weíre playing, weíre trying to take away the strongest thing they have going for them. When you can do that, itís smooth and easy.Ē


I'm ok with this hire because I think that NE system, if deployed correctly, can become exceptionally durable over time and less talent dependent than other teams. So I like the idea of deploying a system that changes what it does week to week in this manner.

I have no idea whether or not Graham is going to be a good DC because he's unproven, but he does seem to be well thought of. And if this is the system you want to deploy, you are basically choosing exclusively from ex-NE coaches.
Dolphins asking defensive players to do things many teams donít. Hereís their reaction. - ( New Window )
RE: ...  
Simms2McConkey : 1/12/2020 6:09 pm : link
In comment 14775562 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
Speaking of Bettcher, did any coordinator ever come to the Giants with higher expectations and fail as miserably as he did?


Looking through a list of coordinators on Pro Football Reference (linked below), probably not on the coordinator level.

I wasn't a Giants fan in the 1970s, but I am guessing the most disappointing coaching hire period in regards to expectations vs. results may have been Bill Arnsparger in 1974. I know I would have been thrilled with the No-Name Dolphins' DC coming to coach my team. But I'm not sure if the Giants faithful who suffered through the 70s feel the same way.

But as far as coordinators go, yes, Bettcher is likely it. Perhaps I'm falling victim to recency bias, but that's my pick too. I had such high hopes.
Link - ( New Window )
RE: RE: Yes..  
NYDCBlue : 1/12/2020 6:10 pm : link
In comment 14775437 Biteymax22 said:
Quote:
In comment 14775406 FatMan in Charlotte said:


Quote:


bring on the white Yale guy!!



I canít tell if this is sarcastic or not...


It is fat man. Don't expect Shakespearean level prose....

I think he meant he is excited to see the DC hire in the bag, and now he is on to the OC hire, who I assume he is pulling for Jason Garrett, given Garrett's Ivey league background.
RE: ...  
Ten Ton Hammer : 1/12/2020 6:12 pm : link
In comment 14775562 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
Speaking of Bettcher, did any coordinator ever come to the Giants with higher expectations and fail as miserably as he did?


I mean they gave him nothing. They gave him the job, then traded everything and had him start a bunch of rookies. If anything, Bettcher got a bad deal. He never had a pass rush or a backfield. Barely had a linebacker.
Interviews  
AnskyJK : 1/12/2020 6:12 pm : link
Listening to various sound clips while he was in Miami and GB, this will
Come off as perhaps harsh but despite Yale, this guy is not articulate: he sounds all over the place
RE: This is not an inspiring hire  
JerryNicklebag : 1/12/2020 6:12 pm : link
In comment 14775486 Tim in Eternal Blue said:
Quote:
. It's just not.


Nothing about this team is inspiring, I donít care how hard they try to put a positive spin on this, the Giants are the new Browns.

Would have been nice to see them bring in veteran coordinators at the very least. Nope...
The best part of his resume...  
morrison40 : 1/12/2020 6:13 pm : link
He was smart enough to leave NY when Shurmur got HIRED and even smarter to come back NOW ! 😂
Well  
ghost718 : 1/12/2020 6:14 pm : link
So much for strong names

Also found this

Quote:
ďLast year, we were attacking,Ē defensive tackle Davon Godchaux told the media this week about the challenges a lineman faces when making a change like this. ďNow you have to read the blocks. Thatís probably the biggest challenge for me. (I am) used to getting off the ball, trying to attack the offensive line. Now you have to read and watch where theyíre going and playing more with your hands out in front of you.
RE: RE: ...  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 1/12/2020 6:16 pm : link
In comment 14775610 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
In comment 14775562 Eric from BBI said:


Quote:


Speaking of Bettcher, did any coordinator ever come to the Giants with higher expectations and fail as miserably as he did?



I mean they gave him nothing. They gave him the job, then traded everything and had him start a bunch of rookies. If anything, Bettcher got a bad deal. He never had a pass rush or a backfield. Barely had a linebacker.


They went defense heavy in the last draft. And they brought in how many ex Cardinals? Five?
I feel the same way about this  
cjac : 1/12/2020 6:16 pm : link
As I did about the Judge hire.

Iím neither excited or ticked off because I donít know anything about him

We had a HC who was OC of the year and a proven DC we were all giddy about and it was a disaster.

Iíll wait to make any judgement here
RE: RE: RE: RE: Why would Graham make a lateral move?  
Ten Ton Hammer : 1/12/2020 6:17 pm : link
In comment 14775525 Big Rick in FL said:
Quote:
In comment 14775519 jeff57 said:


Quote:


In comment 14775512 Big Rick in FL said:


Quote:


In comment 14775502 Jint Fan in Buc Land said:


Quote:


I donít see this being discussed anywhere. Maybe I need to just eat something but I canít think of why would a talented guy with a lot of potential move on after one year to do the exact same thing for another bad team?



Because the Giants have a lot more talent on defense than the Dolphins.



A lot more?



Yes. A lot more.


Where is all this talent? Just a bunch of guys who havent proven anything and Leonard Williams.
Judge wants to do things a certain way.  
Dave on the UWS : 1/12/2020 6:17 pm : link
Graham matches his philosophy, thatís why he was hired. Iíll keep saying, people here have to stop looking at things in a traditional way. The correct answer about whether the base is 3-4 or 4-3 is ďyesĒ. That was both Judges answer AND Graham when asked in Miami last year. Whatever it takes.
I was upset when Graham left for the WRONG reason...  
morrison40 : 1/12/2020 6:19 pm : link
I was so sure Bettcher would be successful that he would get a HC gig in a yr or 2 and I was worried we would have no one one the roster to backfill as his replacement...LOL
RE: Not adding anything to the discussion but he shares a birthday  
markky : 1/12/2020 6:19 pm : link
In comment 14775458 BestFeature said:
Quote:
with Sean McVay.


super advanced analytics
RE: Judge wants to do things a certain way.  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 1/12/2020 6:19 pm : link
In comment 14775632 Dave on the UWS said:
Quote:
Graham matches his philosophy, thatís why he was hired. Iíll keep saying, people here have to stop looking at things in a traditional way. The correct answer about whether the base is 3-4 or 4-3 is ďyesĒ. That was both Judges answer AND Graham when asked in Miami last year. Whatever it takes.


And yet I guarantee you we will see dozens of threads in the next two months about whether we are a 3-4 or 4-3 defense.

The answer to that question is watch the Patriots. They change fronts all of the time.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Why would Graham make a lateral move?  
Big Rick in FL : 1/12/2020 6:21 pm : link
In comment 14775631 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
In comment 14775525 Big Rick in FL said:


Quote:


In comment 14775519 jeff57 said:


Quote:


In comment 14775512 Big Rick in FL said:


Quote:


In comment 14775502 Jint Fan in Buc Land said:


Quote:


I donít see this being discussed anywhere. Maybe I need to just eat something but I canít think of why would a talented guy with a lot of potential move on after one year to do the exact same thing for another bad team?



Because the Giants have a lot more talent on defense than the Dolphins.



A lot more?



Yes. A lot more.



Where is all this talent? Just a bunch of guys who havent proven anything and Leonard Williams.


And that just shows you how bad Miami is. As I posted their starters numerous times.
Well,  
Diver_Down : 1/12/2020 6:22 pm : link
I guess our defense will be rated PG.
RE: Calvin Munson - Isn't that an X Giant  
Reale01 : 1/12/2020 6:26 pm : link
In comment 14775517 ZogZerg said:
Quote:
?


He was horrible
Miami D  
Bavaro_the_Mafioso : 1/12/2020 6:33 pm : link
I thought they played pretty well considering they jettisoned half the team. They also hung around in most games and beat a couple quality squads.
Graham's defense seems like the perfect fit for Simmons  
GMEN4LIFE : 1/12/2020 6:33 pm : link
Based on the flexibility needed to play multiple positions and being intelligent/athletic enough to do so.
That article Eric on LI linked to is must reading  
cosmicj : 1/12/2020 6:35 pm : link
The Dolphins were implementing something pretty unusual and, no surprise, it was catastrophic at the beginning but the players got better at it and the team started to win some games later on.

I would expect the same results here. This will be very unusual. I expect a dismal defense in September.

Yalie  
Giant4Life : 1/12/2020 6:36 pm : link
He's no dummy.
So how do you think DeAndre Baker is going to react  
cosmicj : 1/12/2020 6:37 pm : link
To having to study more and play positions where he needs to tackle?

Thatís going to be rocky.
RE: Yes..  
tyrik13 : 1/12/2020 6:38 pm : link
In comment 14775406 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
bring on the white Yale guy!!


Heís not white...
A lot of positive things can be said about him  
micky : 1/12/2020 6:38 pm : link
But only proof of the pudding is what he does here as DC. We'll see if risk
How much experience as a coordinator did  
Mike in Boston : 1/12/2020 6:39 pm : link
Spagnuolo have when we hired him in 2007? How did that work out?

I also suspect we may have more talent on D than we realize. Most of the problems seem to me the result of bad coaching--i.e. players not knowing whom to cover or which gap to be in more than getting beat. Give or take Bethea who I assume will retire, voluntarily or otherwise.
Our D roster was the 00' Ravens compared to Miami's  
Eric on Li : 1/12/2020 6:40 pm : link
and that's not an exaggeration. Among each team's starters who played more than half last year:

Have Made a Pro Bowl
MIA 0
NYG 3 (Jenkins, Williams, Ogletree)

First Round Picks
MIA 1 (Christian Wilkins)
NYG 5 (Peppers, Baker, Lawrence, Williams, Ogletree)

Day 2 picks
MIA 3 (Baker, McMillan, Rowe)
NYG 4 (Jenkins, Golden, Tomlinson, Carter)

Waived/Practice Squad in the last 12 months (starters)
MIA 5 (Avery Moss, Vince Biegel, Nik Needham, 1 CB + 1 S who both rotated a bunch)
NYG 1 (Mayo)

Bettcher's group's performance was a joke. Sure Ogletree is done and he distorts some of the categories above, but for the most part the team had an injury free year and a few guys even played well individually (Tomlinson, Lawrence, Golden). And yet the results were no better than a team full of practice squaders and cast offs, including 2 guys who couldn't even make the 53 here (Avery Moss & John Jenkins).
RE: ...  
V.I.G. : 1/12/2020 6:41 pm : link
In comment 14775562 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
Speaking of Bettcher, did any coordinator ever come to the Giants with higher expectations and fail as miserably as he did?

Hufnagel?
RE: That article Eric on LI linked to is must reading  
Eric on Li : 1/12/2020 6:44 pm : link
In comment 14775675 cosmicj said:
Quote:
The Dolphins were implementing something pretty unusual and, no surprise, it was catastrophic at the beginning but the players got better at it and the team started to win some games later on.

I would expect the same results here. This will be very unusual. I expect a dismal defense in September.


I expect the same. I'm hopeful that there are a few factors that could speed things up, but I'm not confident. The main one being that Bettcher moved our guys around multiple positions and Graham could have some familiarity with the personnel here (he coached Tomlinson when he was here previously, but that may be the only guy unless im forgetting someone?). Peppers and Williams have each played in a few different defenses under different coaches too, so hopefully they are better equipped to adjust quicker.
The dolphins defense finished 30th because of the first half of the  
jgambrosio : 1/12/2020 6:45 pm : link
Year. They played better as the year went on and with no talent. Honestly they got the best out of their players just like the Patriots do. We will see what he can do here but surprised the dolphins just let him walk.
"The Giants didn't have a single Pro Bowl player and only two teams ha  
Eric on Li : 1/12/2020 6:49 pm : link
The Giants didn't have a single Pro Bowl player and only two teams had less money invested in the defensive side of the ball.
Matt LaFleur did same as Graham  
twostepgiants : 1/12/2020 6:58 pm : link
LaFleur was OC of the Rams for 1 season under McVay (and had come with him from Washington) and then went to Tennessee as OC the next year.

Not much to read into.
RE: Our D roster was the 00' Ravens compared to Miami's  
Jay on the Island : 1/12/2020 7:02 pm : link
In comment 14775688 Eric on Li said:
Quote:
and that's not an exaggeration. Among each team's starters who played more than half last year:

Have Made a Pro Bowl
MIA 0
NYG 3 (Jenkins, Williams, Ogletree)

First Round Picks
MIA 1 (Christian Wilkins)
NYG 5 (Peppers, Baker, Lawrence, Williams, Ogletree)

Day 2 picks
MIA 3 (Baker, McMillan, Rowe)
NYG 4 (Jenkins, Golden, Tomlinson, Carter)

Waived/Practice Squad in the last 12 months (starters)
MIA 5 (Avery Moss, Vince Biegel, Nik Needham, 1 CB + 1 S who both rotated a bunch)
NYG 1 (Mayo)

Bettcher's group's performance was a joke. Sure Ogletree is done and he distorts some of the categories above, but for the most part the team had an injury free year and a few guys even played well individually (Tomlinson, Lawrence, Golden). And yet the results were no better than a team full of practice squaders and cast offs, including 2 guys who couldn't even make the 53 here (Avery Moss & John Jenkins).

The Phins defense was so bad that they had three Giants cast off (Moss, Jenkins, Munson) start games for them. I believe Jenkins was their starting DT/DE the entire season.
RE: Matt LaFleur did same as Graham  
BeckShepEli : 1/12/2020 7:02 pm : link
In comment 14775711 twostepgiants said:
Quote:
LaFleur was OC of the Rams for 1 season under McVay (and had come with him from Washington) and then went to Tennessee as OC the next year.

Not much to read into.


Only difference LaFleur wasnít calling plays in LA. He called the plays in the Tennessee.

Graham was calling plays in Miami
RE: RE: Yes..  
Darth Paul : 1/12/2020 7:04 pm : link
In comment 14775437 Biteymax22 said:
Quote:
In comment 14775406 FatMan in Charlotte said:


Quote:


bring on the white Yale guy!!



I canít tell if this is sarcastic or not...


FMiC can't stop thinking of me and my BBC.
RE: RE: This is what he had to work with  
Really : 1/12/2020 7:05 pm : link
In comment 14775595 Klaatu said:
Quote:
In comment 14775558 Big Rick in FL said:


Quote:


Davon Godchaux DT - 5th
Christian Wilkins DT - 1st
John Jenkins DT - 3rd
Jerome Baker LB - 3rd
Andrew Van Ginkel LB - 5th
Trent Harris LB - UDFA
Calvin Munson LB - UDFA
Nik Needham CB - UDFA
Eric Rowe CB - 2nd
Adrian Colbert S - 7th
Nate Brooks S - UDFA

7 guys who went after the 5th round or went Undrafted. A rookie DT. Another DT that's been on 5 teams in 7 years. A CB whose been on 3 teams in 5 years.

So anybody expecting results is just fooling themselves. Not a single DC in the NFL could have a consistently good defense with players like that.



Hmmm...somehow I don't think we'll be signing any of his former players to play for us.


By years end Nik Needham was a CB to watch as someone who could be a shutdown guy moving forward. A UDFA with that type of impact and skill development should not be ignored. Graham should be credited for that.
RE: RE: Matt LaFleur did same as Graham  
Mike in NY : 1/12/2020 7:05 pm : link
In comment 14775717 BeckShepEli said:
Quote:
In comment 14775711 twostepgiants said:


Quote:


LaFleur was OC of the Rams for 1 season under McVay (and had come with him from Washington) and then went to Tennessee as OC the next year.

Not much to read into.



Only difference LaFleur wasnít calling plays in LA. He called the plays in the Tennessee.

Graham was calling plays in Miami


Perhaps he missed the northeast
I'm keeping an open mind  
Anakim : 1/12/2020 7:08 pm : link
But if Judge and the defense do horribly, this will only feed the narrative. "Could've had Wade Phillips", "Could've had Kris Richard", "Could've had Rod Marinelli", "what the fuck are you doing letting a guy who has never been a head coach become our HC and he even got to choose his staff of inexperienced guys?"
RE: That article Eric on LI linked to is must reading  
GiantsRage2007 : 1/12/2020 7:08 pm : link
In comment 14775675 cosmicj said:
Quote:
The Dolphins were implementing something pretty unusual and, no surprise, it was catastrophic at the beginning but the players got better at it and the team started to win some games later on.

I would expect the same results here. This will be very unusual. I expect a dismal defense in September.



Well, we had a dismal defense all of 2019 so any improvement next year at any point would be welcome.
Going to Yale does not of itself say much about quality. Alumniís kids  
plato : 1/12/2020 7:09 pm : link
get special ins, as does diversity, special private schools, etc etc. If I can think of all the hell raised about the Presidents Bush and Yale, that may say enough to eliminate Yale to many or at least how it was thrown about in the disaster of American politics.

So donít rave about Yale as saying something highly positive about DCís specially as Yale has not been especially proficient in football and is widely considered, although not by me, as second academically to, Goodness forbid, Haaarvaaaard.

So personally Iíll take it that Judge, who has yet to prove much other than he is a well practiced interviewee, is willing to stake his first HC opportunity on the performance of Graham who is coming off a poor first year in Dolphin land. NY/NJ will prove less than hospitable if our ďDĒ doesnít get a lot better a lot quicker. We have had such bad luck in the DC department after Landry, Parcells, and Belichek, that Iím not holding my breath.
RE: I'm keeping an open mind  
Anakim : 1/12/2020 7:10 pm : link
In comment 14775727 Anakim said:
Quote:
But if Judge and the defense do horribly, this will only feed the narrative. "Could've had Wade Phillips", "Could've had Kris Richard", "Could've had Rod Marinelli", "what the fuck are you doing letting a guy who has never been a head coach become our HC and he even got to choose his staff of inexperienced guys?"


And of course, "you should've taken the hint when the Dolphins had no problem letting him leave"
RE: Going to Yale does not of itself say much about quality. Alumniís kids  
Anakim : 1/12/2020 7:11 pm : link
In comment 14775731 plato said:
Quote:
get special ins, as does diversity, special private schools, etc etc. If I can think of all the hell raised about the Presidents Bush and Yale, that may say enough to eliminate Yale to many or at least how it was thrown about in the disaster of American politics.

So donít rave about Yale as saying something highly positive about DCís specially as Yale has not been especially proficient in football and is widely considered, although not by me, as second academically to, Goodness forbid, Haaarvaaaard.

So personally Iíll take it that Judge, who has yet to prove much other than he is a well practiced interviewee, is willing to stake his first HC opportunity on the performance of Graham who is coming off a poor first year in Dolphin land. NY/NJ will prove less than hospitable if our ďDĒ doesnít get a lot better a lot quicker. We have had such bad luck in the DC department after Landry, Parcells, and Belichek, that Iím not holding my breath.


Agreed. Steve Mills and Jason Garrett went to Princeton. See how they did? And not many here want Garrett...
Donít know anything about him  
JoeyBigBlue : 1/12/2020 7:11 pm : link
I just hope Gettleman can assemble some talent for him. We had a strong lack of talent on defensive side of the ball last year.
I dont buy it!!  
GloryDayz : 1/12/2020 7:15 pm : link
I dont buy "they're friends" talk, and Flores just letting him go.

If I hire a friend, I dont expect this friend to leave me, to go join another friend of ours... at least coach out the contract.

We went from looking for experience, to a guy with 1 year experience as coordinator, coaching a near bottom defense (maybe the talent wasnt there, but he sure didnt help make better, did he?), and who was let go by his HC, who also happens to be a friend.

I dont know much about the guy, & I hope it works out... but thats too many red flags for my taste.
I think our defensive line will fit well into this concept of Defense  
Ben in Tampa : 1/12/2020 7:15 pm : link
Lawrence, Tomlinson, Williams (maybe), Hill, McIntosh are all fairly versatile.

I also think Connelly will be interesting to watch in this defense. Smart / instinctive player. Could overachieve and be a real leader in a scheme like Graham/Flores/Judge/Patriots run.
RE: Going to Yale does not of itself say much about quality. Alumniís kids  
GFAN52 : 1/12/2020 7:15 pm : link
In comment 14775731 plato said:
Quote:
get special ins, as does diversity, special private schools, etc etc. If I can think of all the hell raised about the Presidents Bush and Yale, that may say enough to eliminate Yale to many or at least how it was thrown about in the disaster of American politics.

So donít rave about Yale as saying something highly positive about DCís specially as Yale has not been especially proficient in football and is widely considered, although not by me, as second academically to, Goodness forbid, Haaarvaaaard.

So personally Iíll take it that Judge, who has yet to prove much other than he is a well practiced interviewee, is willing to stake his first HC opportunity on the performance of Graham who is coming off a poor first year in Dolphin land. NY/NJ will prove less than hospitable if our ďDĒ doesnít get a lot better a lot quicker. We have had such bad luck in the DC department after Landry, Parcells, and Belichek, that Iím not holding my breath.


Steve Spagnuolo says hi.
He is an upside  
XBRONX : 1/12/2020 7:21 pm : link
down Michael Strahan.
I think ďSpagsĒ is an overrated DC especially on this site. He needs  
plato : 1/12/2020 7:21 pm : link
great players or he doesnít do much? I saw him with us and in various roles in St. louis, he is not in the class of Landry, Parcells, Belicheck, or even Arnsbarger as a Giant DC.
...  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 1/12/2020 7:23 pm : link
"That's great," one player who has worked extensively with Graham said after hearing about the hiring. "He's a good coach."
https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/28471607/source-patrick-graham-leaving-dolphins-giants-dc - ( New Window )
Lets get Garrett for OC, then we will have the most educated staff  
PatersonPlank : 1/12/2020 7:24 pm : link
in the NFL
4 short comments  
idiotsavant : 1/12/2020 7:29 pm : link
1. Welcome aboard.

2. Did feel on draft night that Betch would be hung out to dry if we didn't trade down and go all defense. And commented on that.

3. That said - I felt that the 2-4-5 was hot doggy doo especially with our terrible lbs.. but in any case.

4. Still strongly suggesting to draft 2 true free safeties high in the draft.

As well as a lb if not two or three types of those.

Even IF it's Pat's style discipljbe we will still need such.
RE: ...  
Klaatu : 1/12/2020 7:42 pm : link
In comment 14775753 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
"That's great," one player who has worked extensively with Graham said after hearing about the hiring. "He's a good coach." https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/28471607/source-patrick-graham-leaving-dolphins-giants-dc - ( New Window )


Sounds like we should've hired Boyer, lol.
But his dEfenSe in MiAmEE was TeRrIble!!  
Saquads26 : 1/12/2020 7:46 pm : link
LOL. He fits the mold of want Judge wants and thatís all that matters. This is his team now and Iím fully on board with his vision. He wants leaders and teachers that will hold players accountable. Graham sounds like a bright guy that can get the most out of his players in a versatile scheme.
RE: RE: Matt LaFleur did same as Graham  
jvm52106 : 1/12/2020 7:51 pm : link
In comment 14775717 BeckShepEli said:
Quote:
In comment 14775711 twostepgiants said:


Quote:


LaFleur was OC of the Rams for 1 season under McVay (and had come with him from Washington) and then went to Tennessee as OC the next year.

Not much to read into.



Only difference LaFleur wasnít calling plays in LA. He called the plays in the Tennessee.

Graham was calling plays in Miami


Its Flores defense and now this is Grahams defense...
RE: Lets get Garrett for OC, then we will have the most educated staff  
Blue21 : 1/12/2020 7:51 pm : link
In comment 14775754 PatersonPlank said:
Quote:
in the NFL


I wondering if they are waiting for his contract to be up with the Cowboys which I think is Jan 14th.
RE: But his dEfenSe in MiAmEE was TeRrIble!!  
Nine-Tails : 1/12/2020 7:54 pm : link
In comment 14775778 Saquads26 said:
Quote:
LOL. He fits the mold of want Judge wants and thatís all that matters. This is his team now and Iím fully on board with his vision. He wants leaders and teachers that will hold players accountable. Graham sounds like a bright guy that can get the most out of his players in a versatile scheme.


Honestly you could argue he overachieved based on those numbers. Least talented defense but not last in any major category
RE: I think ďSpagsĒ is an overrated DC especially on this site. He needs  
Nine-Tails : 1/12/2020 7:55 pm : link
In comment 14775752 plato said:
Quote:
great players or he doesnít do much? I saw him with us and in various roles in St. louis, he is not in the class of Landry, Parcells, Belicheck, or even Arnsbarger as a Giant DC.


Thatís the case for many coordinators. Their performance is dependent on talent. Saleh is the hot name now, but he was awful until the miners stacked the defense
RE: RE: ...  
GloryDayz : 1/12/2020 7:56 pm : link
In comment 14775775 Klaatu said:
Quote:
In comment 14775753 Eric from BBI said:


Quote:


"That's great," one player who has worked extensively with Graham said after hearing about the hiring. "He's a good coach." https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/28471607/source-patrick-graham-leaving-dolphins-giants-dc - ( New Window )



Sounds like we should've hired Boyer, lol.


funny thats what I thought too when I read that.

Pretty typical to approve interviews and hires  
Jon C. in MD : 1/12/2020 8:04 pm : link
I might be 100% wrong, but my memory, or maybe just my perception or wrong memory...is that teams typically approve interview requests. Unless youíre talking about the Patriots.

What goes around comes around too. If youíre a good guy and you take care of your coaches when youíre in charge, there might be more opportunities for you when luck inevitably turns bad for you. 90+ % of coaches get fired at some point. Only a handful get to retire on their own terms.

So Iím not reading too much into Miami letting him interview and leave.
RE: Pretty typical to approve interviews and hires  
robbieballs2003 : 1/12/2020 8:07 pm : link
In comment 14775796 Jon C. in MD said:
Quote:
I might be 100% wrong, but my memory, or maybe just my perception or wrong memory...is that teams typically approve interview requests. Unless youíre talking about the Patriots.

What goes around comes around too. If youíre a good guy and you take care of your coaches when youíre in charge, there might be more opportunities for you when luck inevitably turns bad for you. 90+ % of coaches get fired at some point. Only a handful get to retire on their own terms.

So Iím not reading too much into Miami letting him interview and leave.


Not lateral moves. Positional coaches will be allowed to interview for a coordinator position by teams but sometimes denied. I am almost 100% sure that Reid blocked Spags from interviewing with us once but then the next year let him go. I cannot remember a team ever allowing an interview for a lateral move.
RE: RE: Preference  
Shock-Man : 1/12/2020 8:09 pm : link
In comment 14775498 jeff57 said:
Quote:
In comment 14775482 Shock-Man said:


Quote:


Would have been Aaron Glenn I think between the two.

Maybe there is still a way he gets involved



Well we knew that wouldnít happen.


Still talk Glenn could wind up elsewhere on the D staff
Is that quote from Tomlinson?  
Big Blue Blogger : 1/12/2020 8:19 pm : link
Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
"That's great," one player who has worked extensively with Graham said after hearing about the hiring. "He's a good coach."
Has anyone on the team other than DT worked extensively with Graham?
RE: These were the Dolphins starters for the final Pats game  
Jay in Toronto : 1/12/2020 8:20 pm : link
In comment 14775493 Big Rick in FL said:
Quote:
Davon Godchaux DT
C. Wilkins DT
John Jenkins DT
Jerome Baker LB
A. Van Ginkel LB
Trent Harris LB
Calvin Munson LB
Nik Needham CB
Eric Rowe CB
Adrian Colbert S
Nate Brooks DB


I would love to have Van Ginkel. I think he got hurt
RE: Is that quote from Tomlinson?  
TheWalrus : 1/12/2020 8:24 pm : link
In comment 14775825 Big Blue Blogger said:
Quote:
Eric from BBI said:

Quote:


"That's great," one player who has worked extensively with Graham said after hearing about the hiring. "He's a good coach."

Has anyone on the team other than DT worked extensively with Graham?


Could be anyone that knows him from his New England days too. Tomlinson only played from Graham for 1 year.
RE: RE: Yes..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 1/12/2020 8:24 pm : link
In comment 14775683 tyrik13 said:
Quote:
In comment 14775406 FatMan in Charlotte said:


Quote:


bring on the white Yale guy!!



Heís not white...


I know. The poster yesterday who went off about the Giants talking to white guys from Yale didn't though....
RE: Yes..  
VinegarPeppers : 1/12/2020 8:28 pm : link
The fact that heís a white guy is relevant how? Knocks him down a peg?

Geez!

In comment 14775406 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
bring on the white Yale guy!!
RE: So how do you think DeAndre Baker is going to react  
Saquads26 : 1/12/2020 8:29 pm : link
In comment 14775679 cosmicj said:
Quote:
To having to study more and play positions where he needs to tackle?

Thatís going to be rocky.


He either does it or he doesnít play. Pretty simple. Not worried about his feelings.
RE: RE: Yes..  
Darth Paul : 1/12/2020 8:32 pm : link
In comment 14775842 VinegarPeppers said:
Quote:
The fact that heís a white guy is relevant how? Knocks him down a peg?

Geez!

In comment 14775406 FatMan in Charlotte said:


Quote:


bring on the white Yale guy!!



LOL!
RE: RE: These were the Dolphins starters for the final Pats game  
Eric on Li : 1/12/2020 8:32 pm : link
In comment 14775829 Jay in Toronto said:
Quote:
In comment 14775493 Big Rick in FL said:


Quote:


Davon Godchaux DT
C. Wilkins DT
John Jenkins DT
Jerome Baker LB
A. Van Ginkel LB
Trent Harris LB
Calvin Munson LB
Nik Needham CB
Eric Rowe CB
Adrian Colbert S
Nate Brooks DB



I would love to have Van Ginkel. I think he got hurt


I believe the count among those starters is:
4 recent draft picks
1 vet FA
6 guys who were cut in-season/street FA

Pretty amazing that group cost NE the bye.
RE: ...  
Johnny5 : 1/12/2020 8:34 pm : link
In comment 14775562 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
Speaking of Bettcher, did any coordinator ever come to the Giants with higher expectations and fail as miserably as he did?

Maybe Bill Sheridan? lol
RE: RE: Yes..  
Jay in Toronto : 1/12/2020 8:36 pm : link
In comment 14775683 tyrik13 said:
Quote:
In comment 14775406 FatMan in Charlotte said:


Quote:


bring on the white Yale guy!!



Heís not white...


Thanks for clarifying. I was confused about that tan.
RE: RE: RE: Yes..  
VinegarPeppers : 1/12/2020 8:36 pm : link
Fell for the BS.


In comment 14775851 Darth Paul said:
Quote:
In comment 14775842 VinegarPeppers said:


Quote:


The fact that heís a white guy is relevant how? Knocks him down a peg?

Geez!

In comment 14775406 FatMan in Charlotte said:


Quote:


bring on the white Yale guy!!





LOL!
Just glad judge is seemingly getting his own  
jpkmets : 1/12/2020 8:37 pm : link
Hires that meld with the plan he wants to implement. Giants must have not had negative feelings about his stint here.

Anyway, my only take is that was a great job by the Miami staff to keep players going hard when the front office was tanking. Hopefully some of that was due to Graham.
After reading about Miami's new DC  
Jay in Toronto : 1/12/2020 9:00 pm : link
Who is also close with Flores, here's what went Down.

I have a summary of the call.

Flores:Hey congrats on the the gig with the Giants

Judge:Thanks pal.

Flores: listen I got a man crush on our DB coach. I'm afraid someone's gonna poach him.

Judge: That would suck. Totally.

Flores: True enough. So I want to promote him to DC.

Judge: Yeah, but you've got our pal

Flores: (cuts him off) well maybe a team looking for a DC....

Judge: Aha. I see where you are going...

Flores: so can you help two friends out??

Judge: I'm sure something could be worked out.

Flores: Thanks pal. I owe you big time.
Dolphins D was bad  
nygnyy274 : 1/12/2020 9:10 pm : link
But itís not like thereís much more talent on this very weak Giants defense as it stands now.
RE: RE: Yes..  
Klaatu : 1/12/2020 9:18 pm : link
In comment 14775683 tyrik13 said:
Quote:
In comment 14775406 FatMan in Charlotte said:


Quote:


bring on the white Yale guy!!



Heís not white...


Maybe he could be. We know Judge values versatility.

A little makeup, some Barry Manilow, L.L. Bean...hey, who's the new coach?
RE: Dolphins D was bad  
LauderdaleMatty : 1/12/2020 9:53 pm : link
In comment 14775886 nygnyy274 said:
Quote:
But itís not like thereís much more talent on this very weak Giants defense as it stands now.


There is. And itís not close.
Clown show  
Mr. Nickels : 1/12/2020 9:55 pm : link
Joke of an organization
After Judge's presser ...  
Manny in CA : 1/12/2020 10:08 pm : link

This guy doesn't impress me (certainly not as a communicator). Judge said that as a first team head coach, he was looking for experience to lean on; this guy's about the same age.

His resume' is certainly not impressive. With the state of the team, right now, I don't get a good feeling. I certainly hope that I'm very WRONG.
RE: Clown show  
Saquads26 : 1/12/2020 10:13 pm : link
In comment 14775952 Mr. Nickels said:
Quote:
Joke of an organization


😂😂😂😂😂
RE: After Judge's presser ...  
Klaatu : 1/12/2020 10:24 pm : link
In comment 14775964 Manny in CA said:
Quote:

This guy doesn't impress me (certainly not as a communicator). Judge said that as a first team head coach, he was looking for experience to lean on; this guy's about the same age.

His resume' is certainly not impressive. With the state of the team, right now, I don't get a good feeling. I certainly hope that I'm very WRONG.


Please show me where Judge said that. I looked, but I may have missed it.

Joe Judge Introductory Press Conference
It's entertaining...  
Brown_Hornet : 1/12/2020 10:30 pm : link
...to see just how little people with strong opinions actually know about that which they are certain.

It's like politics.

RE: I think ďSpagsĒ is an overrated DC especially on this site. He needs  
clatterbuck : 1/12/2020 10:35 pm : link
In comment 14775752 plato said:
Quote:
great players or he doesnít do much? I saw him with us and in various roles in St. louis, he is not in the class of Landry, Parcells, Belicheck, or even Arnsbarger as a Giant DC.


Fwiw, Arnsparger was HC not a DC. He was a terrific DC for Miami and a terrible HC for us.
RE: After Judge's presser ...  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 1/12/2020 10:37 pm : link
In comment 14775964 Manny in CA said:
Quote:

This guy doesn't impress me (certainly not as a communicator). Judge said that as a first team head coach, he was looking for experience to lean on; this guy's about the same age.

His resume' is certainly not impressive. With the state of the team, right now, I don't get a good feeling. I certainly hope that I'm very WRONG.


You'd have to explain to me how extensive experience under Belichick coaching both the Pats defensive line and Pat linebackers is "not impressive."


I strongly urge everyone to read...  
5BowlsSoon : 1/12/2020 10:41 pm : link
The link Eric in LI cited. I will also attach it below for your benefit. It is awesome and explains a lot as to why Coach Judge wanted him.
Flores/ Graham philosophy - ( New Window )
RE: I think ďSpagsĒ is an overrated DC especially on this site. He needs  
cokeduplt : 1/12/2020 10:44 pm : link
In comment 14775752 plato said:
Quote:
great players or he doesnít do much? I saw him with us and in various roles in St. louis, he is not in the class of Landry, Parcells, Belicheck, or even Arnsbarger as a Giant DC.



Heís an average DC
Graham  
YANKEE28 : 1/12/2020 11:00 pm : link
was on the Patriots coaching staff from 2009 thru 2015.

In years 2009 thru 2013, he coached the Pats defense along with Pepper Johnson.
UberAlias linked an interview on page 1 of this post, watch it...  
Torrag : 1/12/2020 11:03 pm : link
Gives Graham's general philosophy. I'm not enthused, disappointed or surprised by this hire. Joe is going to want some people he knows and trusts that value the philosophies he wants to build around. Like multiplicity. He wants hand son teachers. Graham has all those traits.

As far as his one year in Miami, if you actually watch the games, and it's obvious many of you running your mouths don't, his defense showed improvement. Watch week 17 v the Pats and it's obvious. New England needed that win...at home.

So let's see how it goes. You whiny lil' bitches better get your seatbacks and tray tables in order. Mara is done with quick switches. We hired a young first time HC and he's all in for four years come Hell or high water. I almost wish we'd lose for two years just so I can watch you all lose your shit as your collective pea sized brains explode. Almost.
Seems like a guy  
David B. : 1/12/2020 11:09 pm : link
who wants to run the same kind of flexible, change-for-every-opponent, Pats-style D that Judge is talking about creating. Both he and Graham have seen it work in NE, so they'll start out on the same page from day 1.

Will it be successful immediately, or even soon? Until the Giants upgrade the talent on the D, NO scheme is going to be successful. It may well look as ugly as everything else has for the last two years. But at least they'll start acquiring guys that will fit that system. And weeding-out guys who don't. Once they have the right guys, it could look very much like the Pats system.

But it's probably gonna require a lot more patience than most fans have (left).

Let's just hope the arrow starts pointing UP.

Graham's even more of a no-name than Judge, but I get the reasoning behind the hire.



RE: RE: I think ďSpagsĒ is an overrated DC especially on this site. He needs  
Leg of Theismann : 1/12/2020 11:11 pm : link
In comment 14775994 cokeduplt said:
Quote:
In comment 14775752 plato said:


Quote:


great players or he doesnít do much? I saw him with us and in various roles in St. louis, he is not in the class of Landry, Parcells, Belicheck, or even Arnsbarger as a Giant DC.




Heís an average DC


Well you named some pretty big HOF names right there, Iíd say 99% of coordinators in history arenít on the level of Landry and Belichick. But when he has the horses Spags has gotten the job done in big moments. If you have talent on defense Spags knows how to utilize it.

Holding the 2007 Pays offense to 14 points in and of itself was a HOF performance, not saying he should be in the HOF Iím saying that was one of the great defensive performances in the history of the sport.

And the innovativeness of putting Justin Tuck (an edge rusher) on the inside to go against a guard was something that was no often done before that game, and since then that has become the NFL blueprint for beating the Pats and almost every great pass rushing team does it.

Also remember the fake drop back by Mitchell and then he came rushing up the middle... there were so many smart plays run by that defense in XLII, Spags and the rest of the coaching staff had them thinking on another level.

Again Spags is not a HOF coach and he certainly failed as a HC, but when heís had the horses heís gotten the job done and you canít always say that about every DC when given talent.

Simply due to that performance in XLII you simply wonít hear me ever say a bad word about Spags. Period.
Also I said 99%  
Leg of Theismann : 1/12/2020 11:12 pm : link
And really meant 99.99%, especially regarding Belichick.
RE: UberAlias linked an interview on page 1 of this post, watch it...  
shocktheworld : 1/12/2020 11:16 pm : link
In comment 14776008 Torrag said:
Quote:
Gives Graham's general philosophy. I'm not enthused, disappointed or surprised by this hire. Joe is going to want

So let's see how it goes. You whiny lil' bitches better get your seatbacks and tray tables in order. Mara is done with quick switches. We hired a young first time HC and he's all in for four years come Hell or high water. I almost wish we'd lose for two years just so I can watch you all lose your shit as your collective pea sized brains explode. Almost.


Holy shit, give that man a hand! (stands and starts slow clap)
RE: I strongly urge everyone to read...  
BestFeature : 1/13/2020 12:35 am : link
In comment 14775993 5BowlsSoon said:
Quote:
The link Eric in LI cited. I will also attach it below for your benefit. It is awesome and explains a lot as to why Coach Judge wanted him. Flores/ Graham philosophy - ( New Window )


Only caveat I'll have about this is that we saw similar articles about Bettcher. That said I already trust Judge more than Shurmur and I sure as hell respect the Pats more than the Cards, even when the Cards were good.
Welp here begins the first fizzle.  
giantsFC : 1/13/2020 1:24 am : link
Letís hope these constant WTF coaching moves Giants do actually pay off for once.

In his presser Judge said about himself ...  
Manny in CA : 1/13/2020 1:25 am : link

In answer to the question "So, just how you sort of sold them with that asterisk on the resume that you were ready to be a head coach", he answered this way ...

"And as a young head coach, Iím going to lean on Dave Gettleman, Iím going to lean on the assistants I hire, Iím going to lean on having the right people in the building to fill in some of the blanks that I may have"

To me this means that he anticipates that as a coach with comparative limited experience, he will have knowledge gaps. I think that is very wise of him.

Robert E.Lee once said "The education of a man is never completed until he dies"

I'm very, very impressed with Joe Judge. It's very rare to find many men who know themselves this well.
I should have said ...  
Manny in CA : 1/13/2020 1:30 am : link

t's very rare to find a man who knows himself this well.
Fairly impressive we could find anybody who  
Jimmy Googs : 1/13/2020 7:27 am : link
wanted to coach our current Defense...
RE: RE: UberAlias linked an interview on page 1 of this post, watch it...  
Saquads26 : 1/13/2020 7:42 am : link
In comment 14776018 shocktheworld said:
Quote:
In comment 14776008 Torrag said:


Quote:


Gives Graham's general philosophy. I'm not enthused, disappointed or surprised by this hire. Joe is going to want

So let's see how it goes. You whiny lil' bitches better get your seatbacks and tray tables in order. Mara is done with quick switches. We hired a young first time HC and he's all in for four years come Hell or high water. I almost wish we'd lose for two years just so I can watch you all lose your shit as your collective pea sized brains explode. Almost.



Holy shit, give that man a hand! (stands and starts slow clap)


Yup couldnít agree more. Some of the incessant whining that goes on here is worse than an entitled 12 year old girl.
Fans need to realize  
JonC : 1/13/2020 7:53 am : link
until the talent level rises, most coaches are going to struggle.

With Shurmur/Bettcher, it was painfully obvious that they really stunk on gameday in their own right, and the teaching was not getting through to the players. When mental and physical errors are repeated over and over, that's poor coaching. The brass saw it, and it sparked the changes.

They're still on the hook for improving the talent level. And, with a third offseason of infusion hopefully Judge and the new staff will demonstrate their abilities to set a foundation and TEACH the players.
Paul Schwartz  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 1/13/2020 7:59 am : link
points out that only Dalvin Tomlinson remains from the 2016 defense. So the quote must have come from him.

Also, he suggests that Glenn may not be out of the running for a position.
Glenn was a technician in his prime  
JonC : 1/13/2020 8:02 am : link
perhaps DB coach is next step for him.
and a Parcells favorite  
JonC : 1/13/2020 8:02 am : link
.
RE: Glenn was a technician in his prime  
Shock-Man : 1/13/2020 8:13 am : link
In comment 14776118 JonC said:
Quote:
perhaps DB coach is next step for him.


He is currently a DB coach
Thanks  
JonC : 1/13/2020 8:14 am : link
thought he was a lower assistant.
RE: RE: RE: Yes..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 1/13/2020 8:30 am : link
In comment 14775900 Klaatu said:
Quote:
In comment 14775683 tyrik13 said:


Quote:


In comment 14775406 FatMan in Charlotte said:


Quote:


bring on the white Yale guy!!



Heís not white...



Maybe he could be. We know Judge values versatility.

A little makeup, some Barry Manilow, L.L. Bean...hey, who's the new coach?


Barry, sing to one of my sweeeeet melodies!
RE: Fairly impressive we could find anybody who  
BamaBlue : 1/13/2020 8:46 am : link
In comment 14776090 Jimmy Googs said:
Quote:
wanted to coach our current Defense...


+1 That was my first thought ")
RE: RE: Judge wants to do things a certain way.  
NikkiMac : 1/13/2020 8:53 am : link
In comment 14775637 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
In comment 14775632 Dave on the UWS said:


Quote:


Graham matches his philosophy, thatís why he was hired. Iíll keep saying, people here have to stop looking at things in a traditional way. The correct answer about whether the base is 3-4 or 4-3 is ďyesĒ. That was both Judges answer AND Graham when asked in Miami last year. Whatever it takes.



And yet I guarantee you we will see dozens of threads in the next two months about whether we are a 3-4 or 4-3 defense.

The answer to that question is watch the Patriots. They change fronts all of the time.


And itís been said over and over by Belichick ďyou need smart players to change philosophies every week but you canít doubt the success of this strategy .......I like it because it teaches the team to overcome adversity and easily make halftime adjustments something Shurmur could not do
RE: Paul Schwartz  
Rflairr : 1/13/2020 8:57 am : link
In comment 14776113 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
points out that only Dalvin Tomlinson remains from the 2016 defense. So the quote must have come from him.

Also, he suggests that Glenn may not be out of the running for a position.


The title of Pass Game Coordinator is becoming popular in the NFL now. Also Glenn is the coach Lattimore arguing with during the playoff game. So he might be looking for a change as well. Secondary Coach with the additional title?
Thoughts  
AdamBrag : 1/13/2020 9:08 am : link
I've been thinking about this a decent amount. Some positives and negatives:

Positives

Clearly, this is who Joe Judge wanted. It doesn't seem like there was even much of a search on this one.

His views are aligned with Judge around versatility

Interviews talk highly of his ability to develop players.

Concerns

Very risky defensive coordinator pick for a first time head coach. Will he be successful calling plays? Some of the plays he called for the Dolphins this year were downright boneheaded.

Will his scheme be too complicated for a young Giants' defense? The rumors out of Miami are that O'Shea was fired and they were okay with Graham walking because the offensive and defensive schemes were similar to the Pats and difficult for younger players to pick up.

Gut feel, but I have some concern that he has shades of McAdoo in the sense that he's the smartest guy in the room, but he overthinks things.
RE: I think ďSpagsĒ is an overrated DC especially on this site. He needs  
Ten Ton Hammer : 1/13/2020 9:09 am : link
In comment 14775752 plato said:
Quote:
great players or he doesnít do much? I saw him with us and in various roles in St. louis, he is not in the class of Landry, Parcells, Belicheck, or even Arnsbarger as a Giant DC.


It's not a crime to not be Parcells or Landry. Those are hall of fame coaches. You can be good at your job and not be a hall of fame coach. Name all the current defensive coordinators to do great things without great players.
No offense..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 1/13/2020 9:09 am : link
but how do you even know what the playcalls were??

Quote:
Very risky defensive coordinator pick for a first time head coach. Will he be successful calling plays? Some of the plays he called for the Dolphins this year were downright boneheaded.
Regarding the topic of scheme  
Ten Ton Hammer : 1/13/2020 9:10 am : link
I think the Patriots system is a good idea in practice but that requires a very specific type of player to actually run. Belichick knows how to get players to fit what he wants to do.

Finding the right talent to play in this idea of a defense is going to be a challenge.
RE: Clown show  
Rory : 1/13/2020 9:13 am : link
In comment 14775952 Mr. Nickels said:
Quote:
Joke of an organization


go follow the Jets then
RE: No offense..  
AdamBrag : 1/13/2020 9:17 am : link
In comment 14776209 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
but how do you even know what the playcalls were??



Quote:


Very risky defensive coordinator pick for a first time head coach. Will he be successful calling plays? Some of the plays he called for the Dolphins this year were downright boneheaded.



For example, against the Steelers, they ran an all out blitz at the end of the half when it was 3rd and 20 from the Dolphins 45. This resulted in a TD for the Steelers.
RE: Regarding the topic of scheme  
Klaatu : 1/13/2020 9:19 am : link
In comment 14776211 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
I think the Patriots system is a good idea in practice but that requires a very specific type of player to actually run. Belichick knows how to get players to fit what he wants to do.

Finding the right talent to play in this idea of a defense is going to be a challenge.


Absolutely.

There was a thread started a few days ago in which the OP we'd win something like three more games this year than we did last year. My take was "not so fast." I expect a fair amount of turmoil early on, and quite possibly a good deal of roster-turnover this year and next as Judge and his staff attempt to put together a roster "in their image." That's not going to happen overnight (if it happens at all, let's be honest).
RE: No offense..  
5BowlsSoon : 1/13/2020 9:23 am : link
In comment 14776209 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
but how do you even know what the playcalls were??



Quote:


Very risky defensive coordinator pick for a first time head coach. Will he be successful calling plays? Some of the plays he called for the Dolphins this year were downright boneheaded.



I guess he got a transcript of every play being run and analyzed it, much like Brian Baldinger does.

On a side note, when we played Miami, the announcers made a point in telling us Miamiís weakness is their defensive line, and apparently they were right because we did abuse them. So, maybe in all fairness to Graham, he just didnít have much to work with and tried to make the best with what he had. His defense surprisingly held the Patriots to 24 points in the last game to beat them. Donít ask me how they only scored 24 when we scored in the 30s.
so did he call plays in Miami  
Platos : 1/13/2020 9:29 am : link
or was that some BBI made up stuff?

every article i see says he calls the plays.
RE: so did he call plays in Miami  
AdamBrag : 1/13/2020 9:35 am : link
In comment 14776255 Platos said:
Quote:
or was that some BBI made up stuff?

every article i see says he calls the plays.


He called the plays.
You want coaches with the same philosophy as you  
Rudy5757 : 1/13/2020 9:39 am : link
so this hire makes sense. He was well thought of by Carl Banks who knew of him when he coached here 2 years ago. I think he has done well in the places he's been. Seems as though Graham drank the NE Kool-Aid as well. Its like they were reciting from a manual.

Its so funny how so many people have formed opinions on this coach when they know nothing about him. I hope he can get the most out of the talent we have on this team and I expect a lot of upgrades on D to help him via mid level FAs that fit like they do in NE. Rarely do they dip into top end FA unless its a game changer, usually a CB.

I think the comment about Kitchens a few days ago is telling that he doesnt hire friends. Judge doesnt respect Kitchens as a coach.
RE: You want coaches with the same philosophy as you  
Ten Ton Hammer : 1/13/2020 9:42 am : link
In comment 14776279 Rudy5757 said:
Quote:
Judge doesnt respect Kitchens as a coach.


Or he just doesn't want to mix a personal relationship with business and possibly be in a position where he would have to fire a close friend.

Judge and Kitchens are friends and have been for years.
kitchens maybe isn't cut out to call an offense  
Platos : 1/13/2020 9:47 am : link
he's a good positions coach though and people like him(despite cleveland)

i like that graham uses the 46 bear alignment.
RE: Paul Schwartz  
FranknWeezer : 1/13/2020 9:53 am : link
In comment 14776113 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
points out that only Dalvin Tomlinson remains from the 2016 defense. So the quote must have come from him.

Also, he suggests that Glenn may not be out of the running for a position.


What's this reference about a quote?
RE: RE: Paul Schwartz  
90.Cal : 1/13/2020 10:09 am : link
In comment 14776302 FranknWeezer said:
Quote:
In comment 14776113 Eric from BBI said:


Quote:


points out that only Dalvin Tomlinson remains from the 2016 defense. So the quote must have come from him.

Also, he suggests that Glenn may not be out of the running for a position.



What's this reference about a quote?


Seen this and was wondering the same? Can Eric or anyone follow up?
No one here  
NYG007 : 1/13/2020 10:13 am : link
Is a coaching expert or talent evaluator. Can we just give our new staff a damn chance?

Be a fan, LETS GO!

But is it possible this whole "we want teachers" thing is a little too  
Anakim : 1/13/2020 10:54 am : link
extreme in the sense that A) teaching is more of what college coaches should do; and B) playcalling and creativity are just as important.


I mean I know they're not mutually exclusive, but from the way it's being presented it sounds like Graham is being put in the category of teacher rather than some sort of defensive mind. Ideally you want and really need both.
college coaches  
blueblood : 1/13/2020 11:03 am : link
arent teaching guys for the NFL. Its EXTREMELY important to teach players the fundamentals and correct technique. Something this team is unbelievably poor at. This is not a one year fix.. no one is coming in here no matter who they are and fixing this mess in one year.

The Giants need to build a PROGRAM.. the teams that are the most successful in ANY sport have a program.. the Giants have no foundation.. no identity.. they need one.. badly..
RE: But is it possible this whole  
figgy2989 : 1/13/2020 11:03 am : link
In comment 14776409 Anakim said:
Quote:
extreme in the sense that A) teaching is more of what college coaches should do; and B) playcalling and creativity are just as important.


I mean I know they're not mutually exclusive, but from the way it's being presented it sounds like Graham is being put in the category of teacher rather than some sort of defensive mind. Ideally you want and really need both.


Judge stressed fundamentals in his presser, so I think the guys he is bringing in will play a big role in that as well.
RE: RE: Fairly impressive we could find anybody who  
Darth Paul : 1/13/2020 11:08 am : link
In comment 14776160 BamaBlue said:
Quote:
In comment 14776090 Jimmy Googs said:


Quote:


wanted to coach our current Defense...



+1 That was my first thought ")


Good Stuff
I had no idea he was only 40  
Rflairr : 1/13/2020 11:42 am : link
Him and Judge are very young
RE: Why did Miami  
Carson53 : 1/13/2020 11:49 am : link
In comment 14775424 section125 said:
Quote:
let him go?


Maybe because they allowed 31 points a game is a good guess? I don't get this this move.
As I said when Judge was hired, want to see the coaching staff he puts together.
The Dolphins allowed the Giants to interview on a lateral move, that should tell people something.
RE: RE: Why did Miami  
Rflairr : 1/13/2020 11:51 am : link
In comment 14776546 Carson53 said:
Quote:
In comment 14775424 section125 said:


Quote:


let him go?



Maybe because they allowed 31 points a game is a good guess? I don't get this this move.
As I said when Judge was hired, want to see the coaching staff he puts together.
The Dolphins allowed the Giants to interview on a lateral move, that should tell people something.


Blah. The Panthers just hired the Colts DL coach on a lateral move. Sometimes guys donít stand in the way of people they have a good relationship with
Carson  
bigblue5611_2 : 1/13/2020 11:54 am : link
It could also be a win/win all the way around. Maybe the Dolphins wanted to give do Graham a solid while not wanting to lose the guy they just promoted to DC?

As far as the points allowed, have you looked at the "talent" he had to work with in Miami?
RE: RE: RE: Why did Miami  
Carson53 : 1/13/2020 11:56 am : link
In comment 14776554 Rflairr said:
Quote:
In comment 14776546 Carson53 said:


Quote:


In comment 14775424 section125 said:


Quote:


let him go?



Maybe because they allowed 31 points a game is a good guess? I don't get this this move.
As I said when Judge was hired, want to see the coaching staff he puts together.
The Dolphins allowed the Giants to interview on a lateral move, that should tell people something.



Blah. The Panthers just hired the Colts DL coach on a lateral move. Sometimes guys donít stand in the way of people they have a good relationship with
.

Was his contract up as the DL coach with Colts?
That would be different if that were the case.
In Graham's case, A)it wasn't, and
B)worked with both Flores and Judge as members of the Pats staff, not exactly a compelling argument.
RE: RE: Paul Schwartz  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 1/13/2020 12:01 pm : link
In comment 14776302 FranknWeezer said:
Quote:
In comment 14776113 Eric from BBI said:


Quote:


points out that only Dalvin Tomlinson remains from the 2016 defense. So the quote must have come from him.

Also, he suggests that Glenn may not be out of the running for a position.



What's this reference about a quote?


Quote I posted above from the player.

"That's great," one player who has worked extensively with Graham said after hearing about the hiring. "He's a good coach."
Anakim  
Bill2 : 1/13/2020 12:01 pm : link
Guys come out of college at 21-23.

Usually need intense good coaching.

Usually career ends in 4 years.

Key to depth for a team like the Giants is getting bottom round and UFDA's ready to play and step in. Think Patriots. Think rookie Malcolm Butler prepared in the right place and prepared to see the play when it matters

Cant execute anything exotic or scheme flexible until the foundation is in place.

They aren't going guru. They don't believe scheme wrinkles win enough games. They are preparing multiflex from multi players
RE: Carson  
Carson53 : 1/13/2020 12:02 pm : link
In comment 14776567 bigblue5611_2 said:
Quote:
It could also be a win/win all the way around. Maybe the Dolphins wanted to give do Graham a solid while not wanting to lose the guy they just promoted to DC?

As far as the points allowed, have you looked at the "talent" he had to work with in Miami?
.

Did you see the 'talent' in the Giants secondary?
Nothing to get overly excited about, just saying.
This roster stinks.
Fair point  
bigblue5611_2 : 1/13/2020 12:09 pm : link
However, my point would be that I don't think we can fully judge Miami's stats based off of who Graham is or could be as a DC?
This HC will run the whole show through the Coaches and the assistants  
TMS : 1/13/2020 12:17 pm : link
he picks,. He knows them from prior contact and he will oversee every unit personally. Young smart guy with a plan. What do we have to lose ?
Uhh  
aGiantGuy : 1/13/2020 12:18 pm : link
The Dolphins used a good amount of man coverage... so thatís a plus
RE: RE: Carson  
Rory : 1/13/2020 12:24 pm : link
In comment 14776581 Carson53 said:
Quote:
In comment 14776567 bigblue5611_2 said:


Quote:


It could also be a win/win all the way around. Maybe the Dolphins wanted to give do Graham a solid while not wanting to lose the guy they just promoted to DC?

As far as the points allowed, have you looked at the "talent" he had to work with in Miami?

.

Did you see the 'talent' in the Giants secondary?
Nothing to get overly excited about, just saying.
This roster stinks.


awesome fan

RE: RE: Why did Miami  
Platos : 1/13/2020 12:27 pm : link
In comment 14776546 Carson53 said:
Quote:
In comment 14775424 section125 said:


Quote:


let him go?



Maybe because they allowed 31 points a game is a good guess? I don't get this this move.
As I said when Judge was hired, want to see the coaching staff he puts together.
The Dolphins allowed the Giants to interview on a lateral move, that should tell people something.


miami's offense couldn't sustain drives. they were like us in that everything collapsed in the second half more often than not
RE: RE: RE: Carson  
Ten Ton Hammer : 1/13/2020 12:28 pm : link
In comment 14776623 Rory said:
Quote:
In comment 14776581 Carson53 said:


Quote:


In comment 14776567 bigblue5611_2 said:


Quote:


It could also be a win/win all the way around. Maybe the Dolphins wanted to give do Graham a solid while not wanting to lose the guy they just promoted to DC?

As far as the points allowed, have you looked at the "talent" he had to work with in Miami?

.

Did you see the 'talent' in the Giants secondary?
Nothing to get overly excited about, just saying.
This roster stinks.



awesome fan


I mean they had 4 wins and a defense ranked in the 30s. If being a bad fan means noting things that actually happened, being a fan is dumb.
RE: Anakim  
Anakim : 1/13/2020 12:51 pm : link
In comment 14776578 Bill2 said:
Quote:
Guys come out of college at 21-23.

Usually need intense good coaching.

Usually career ends in 4 years.

Key to depth for a team like the Giants is getting bottom round and UFDA's ready to play and step in. Think Patriots. Think rookie Malcolm Butler prepared in the right place and prepared to see the play when it matters

Cant execute anything exotic or scheme flexible until the foundation is in place.

They aren't going guru. They don't believe scheme wrinkles win enough games. They are preparing multiflex from multi players


Thanks, Bill. Good to see you back.
RE: college coaches  
Anakim : 1/13/2020 12:55 pm : link
In comment 14776426 blueblood said:
Quote:
arent teaching guys for the NFL. Its EXTREMELY important to teach players the fundamentals and correct technique. Something this team is unbelievably poor at. This is not a one year fix.. no one is coming in here no matter who they are and fixing this mess in one year.

The Giants need to build a PROGRAM.. the teams that are the most successful in ANY sport have a program.. the Giants have no foundation.. no identity.. they need one.. badly..


That's nice and all, but what about the playcalling itself? Schemes are just as important to the success of a team.

Graham has got the teaching part down, supposedly, but what about the playcalling? Graham can teach our defense about the fundamentals of tackling, but if he calls a wrong play on defense and lets up a big play, what good will that lesson on tackling do?

Again, they're not mutually exclusive, but all this talk about the importance of a teacher and not enough about schemers, strategists and defensive minds/gurus rubs me the wrong way a bit.
RE: RE: No offense..  
Dinger : 1/13/2020 12:58 pm : link
In comment 14776231 AdamBrag said:
Quote:
In comment 14776209 FatMan in Charlotte said:


Quote:


but how do you even know what the playcalls were??



Quote:


Very risky defensive coordinator pick for a first time head coach. Will he be successful calling plays? Some of the plays he called for the Dolphins this year were downright boneheaded.





For example, against the Steelers, they ran an all out blitz at the end of the half when it was 3rd and 20 from the Dolphins 45. This resulted in a TD for the Steelers.


How much time left in the half? I like a blitz on 3rd and 20. Pin your ears back time as they say on TV. Not to pile on but this is one example and I'm not sure its a good example.
that 3rd and 20 blitz was against  
Platos : 1/13/2020 1:05 pm : link
mason rudolph and the only reason that game was 14-3 at that point was because of the Miami defense and specials giving great field position.

also Fitzmagic and the offense coughed up the ball 4 times.

too much is made over that call.
Re: Teaching  
WillieYoung : 1/13/2020 1:08 pm : link
You're not teaching pro players the three point stance. You're teaching them complicated schemes that must be executed by all 11 guys in a precise way. You're teaching them to unlearn things they have been taught before in order to play their position in the scheme and make it successful. Unfortunately, we've had players who failed to pick up systems before and were reading after week 3 we were going to have to simplify the system to make it work. Hopefully having a bunch of young guys gives us a higher probability of successs. Hopefully we bring in some guys in free agency who have thrived in multiple defensive systems.
RE: Yale grad  
Coach Red Beaulieu : 1/13/2020 1:10 pm : link
In comment 14775425 Pete in MD said:
Quote:
who almost joined the CIA. Bonesman?

Heavens a Yale man!
RE: RE: These were the Dolphins starters for the final Pats game  
HitSquad : 1/13/2020 1:16 pm : link
In comment 14775513 John In CO said:
Quote:
In comment 14775493 Big Rick in FL said:


Quote:


Davon Godchaux DT
C. Wilkins DT
John Jenkins DT
Jerome Baker LB
A. Van Ginkel LB
Trent Harris LB
Calvin Munson LB
Nik Needham CB
Eric Rowe CB
Adrian Colbert S
Nate Brooks DB



And they won the damn game. Wow......


LMAO! I thought the same thing
The money quote for me  
mattlawson : 1/13/2020 1:43 pm : link
ďWe would all just love to run the same thing every week. That would [require] far less thinking. But on the flip side of that, if you run the same thing every week, coaches are smart; they will devise ways to combat it. If you keep running the same thing, thereís a counter to that: Hereís your weakness and weíre going to expose it. But if we change it up, it keeps other teams on their toes. We throw them off their game plan. But it does require more studying and thinking.Ē


Seems like we've been running the same D for 2 years. Thank the good lord we'll be changing that
RE: The money quote for me  
BestFeature : 1/13/2020 1:57 pm : link
In comment 14776812 mattlawson said:
Quote:
ďWe would all just love to run the same thing every week. That would [require] far less thinking. But on the flip side of that, if you run the same thing every week, coaches are smart; they will devise ways to combat it. If you keep running the same thing, thereís a counter to that: Hereís your weakness and weíre going to expose it. But if we change it up, it keeps other teams on their toes. We throw them off their game plan. But it does require more studying and thinking.Ē


Seems like we've been running the same D for 2 years. Thank the good lord we'll be changing that


What concerns me is that Bettcher was supposed to be this guy that valued flexibility and I never saw any of this. That said, I trust Judge to make sure Graham follows through more than I did Shurmur.
SF Defense was 28th...  
Brown_Hornet : 1/13/2020 1:57 pm : link
...in 2018.

8th in 2019.

I'm looking forward to 2020.
RE: SF Defense was 28th...  
Klaatu : 1/13/2020 2:05 pm : link
In comment 14776833 Brown_Hornet said:
Quote:
...in 2018.

8th in 2019.

I'm looking forward to 2020.


Without checking, my question is were injuries a factor? Was SF banged up in 2018 and healthy in 2019? Just curious.
RE: SF Defense was 28th...  
Coach Red Beaulieu : 1/13/2020 2:08 pm : link
In comment 14776833 Brown_Hornet said:
Quote:
...in 2018.

8th in 2019.

I'm looking forward to 2020.

The drafting of Nick Bosa was that franchise's Riker's Beard moment.
Interesting article on Miami D  
T in NJ : 1/13/2020 2:19 pm : link
This probably explains what JJ is looking for on D.
Dolphins asking defensive players to do things many teams donít. - ( New Window )
RE: RE: SF Defense was 28th...  
Brown_Hornet : 1/13/2020 2:46 pm : link
In comment 14776870 Klaatu said:
Quote:
In comment 14776833 Brown_Hornet said:


Quote:


...in 2018.

8th in 2019.

I'm looking forward to 2020.



Without checking, my question is were injuries a factor? Was SF banged up in 2018 and healthy in 2019? Just curious.

Don't know but 25th in 2017.

Point is, huge jumps are possible.
RE: RE: RE: SF Defense was 28th...  
Klaatu : 1/13/2020 2:57 pm : link
In comment 14776966 Brown_Hornet said:
Quote:
...in 2018.

8th in 2019.

I'm looking forward to 2020.



Without checking, my question is were injuries a factor? Was SF banged up in 2018 and healthy in 2019? Just curious.


Don't know but 25th in 2017.

Point is, huge jumps are possible.


Point taken. Hopefully the Giants will play their cards right in free agency and the draft with regard to their defense. It sure would be nice to have at least one player that opposing offenses have to account for. I hope Graham is the goods, too, and can bring out the best in the guys we already have who underachieved this year.
RE: RE: RE: RE: SF Defense was 28th...  
Jim from Katonah : 1/13/2020 4:00 pm : link
In comment 14777019 Klaatu said:
Quote:
In comment 14776966 Brown_Hornet said:


Quote:


...in 2018.

8th in 2019.

I'm looking forward to 2020.



Without checking, my question is were injuries a factor? Was SF banged up in 2018 and healthy in 2019? Just curious.


Don't know but 25th in 2017.

Point is, huge jumps are possible.



Point taken. Hopefully the Giants will play their cards right in free agency and the draft with regard to their defense. It sure would be nice to have at least one player that opposing offenses have to account for. I hope Graham is the goods, too, and can bring out the best in the guys we already have who underachieved this year.


Amen to that!
Won't matter if he doesn't get good players  
Soundtrack : 1/13/2020 4:34 pm : link
DG screwed over the last DC, Graham won't fare any better without talent.
RE: Won't matter if he doesn't get good players  
Klaatu : 1/13/2020 4:49 pm : link
In comment 14777352 Soundtrack said:
Quote:
DG screwed over the last DC, Graham won't fare any better without talent.


How did DG screw over Bettcher? By signing five of his old Cardinal players? By drafting Carter, Hill, and McIntosh in his first year, and Lawrence, Baker, Ximines, Connelly, Love, and Ballentine in his second?

To borrow from Vince McMahon, "Betch screwed Betch."
RE: RE: Won't matter if he doesn't get good players  
Soundtrack : 1/13/2020 5:08 pm : link
In comment 14777376 Klaatu said:
Quote:
In comment 14777352 Soundtrack said:


Quote:


DG screwed over the last DC, Graham won't fare any better without talent.



How did DG screw over Bettcher? By signing five of his old Cardinal players? By drafting Carter, Hill, and McIntosh in his first year, and Lawrence, Baker, Ximines, Connelly, Love, and Ballentine in his second?

To borrow from Vince McMahon, "Betch screwed Betch."


Not one of those players was an established NFL talent outside of 35 year old Bethea. The overwhelming majority of those cardinals had their best seasons 4 years ago in 2016. Even Golden, the one signing DG has made outside of Dixon and a bunch of other ST players that has worked out, he was thought to be a one year wonder until he proved he could still play in 2019 after fully recovering from his injuries.

No DC would have had any success with the utter crap DG gave Bettcher to work with.

You don't win 9 games over 2 years because of bad coaching. You guys constantly pin blame on Shurmur and Bettcher. Were they great coaches? Nope. But they were also set up to fail from day 1 with this roster. Nobody could have done better with this group.
Oh, puh-leeze.  
Klaatu : 1/13/2020 5:26 pm : link
Nobody did less with more than Bettcher. But thanks to him we got to see Kareem Martin, Olsen Pierre, and Antoine "Whiplash" Bethea in action. I'm looking forward to watching that highlight reel.

As for Shurmur he was just another example of the Peter Principle. He was a good coordinator who rose to the level of incompetence as a head coach. The NFL is littered with them.
Back to the Corner