Epic collapse though. They could have had them 28-0.
It was in no way shape or form a great call. Even if it succeeded they weren't guaranteed any points there as they were still well in their own end.
As others have said it was too great a risk with the reward not coming close if it worked. They already had a 17 point lead and ended up giving KC all the momentum and they never looked back. Foolish risk there and they paid the price for being dumb.
Before the game, we'd probably agree that it's exactly the sort of call a team like Houston is going to need to make to beat a team like Kansas City on their home field in a playoff game.
More egregious was earlier in the game, kicking the FG on 4th and 1 when it looked like you were going to go for it.
If thats your mentality then you have to go for it on 4th and inches Â
Plus Even if they didn't make it i think they end up in a better position than they did because the chiefs would have had to drive the length of the field instead of having the big kick return to get them going
...he basically was inviting great field position to the Chiefs in a 24-7 game. No reason to do that.
Sure, the Chiefs were scoring 50+ points. But did O'Brien really think that was going to happen? I beg to differ...this is a team that had beaten KC already earlier in the season in KC. And sure Mahomes was not 100%...but still.........
Tell O'Brien they were going to score 31, I'm sure he would have thought they had a pretty good shot at winning the game.
in the big picture. KC would have have started the drive with worse field position, that’s all. They were always going to win that game and score at will. Dropped passes killed them on their first two
possessions.
in the big picture. KC would have have started the drive with worse field position, that’s all. They were always going to win that game and score at will. Dropped passes killed them on their first two
possessions.
No way you can assume that.
The short field they got and subsequent TD put them right back in the game and jacked their momentum sky high. It was without a doubt the turning point in the game IMO.
Sometime between the 4th and 1 FG and the fake punt, O'Brien grew a set of balls and lost a portion of his brain.
Agree. He should have reversed the decisions, go for it on the fourth and short and punt on the 4th and 3.
And then down 17 with half the 4th quarter left he was going to punt? And had to burn a TO when he realized how dumb that was?
What the hell is wrong with these coaches? That should be fireable along with Zimmer punting down 3 scores with 9 minutes left.
Yeah I agree about how he should've reversed those decisions. It was almost as if he knew he messed up not going for it on 4th and short and tried to make up for it.
Reminded me of Shurmur down two scores punting on 4th and 3 around midfield vs the Pats this year and then going for 4th and 15 on his own 30 or so the following week vs the Cards.
it was stupid and if anyone has watched O'Brien over the years, you know he does a lot of really stupid things. The Chiefs at that point had one drive, the prior one, and it started with an incredible kick return that already put them and the Houston 40. At that point, they hadn't shown the ability to drive it down the field. The risk vs reward here was terrible. The reward is he makes it and it sustains the drive for who knows how long. Worst case, it's just 3 more plays and you don't take much time off the clock (believe it was like 8 min left). The risk is you are giving up points immediately and again have your defense playing with a short field. That was the turning point of the game
in the big picture. KC would have have started the drive with worse field position, that’s all. They were always going to win that game and score at will. Dropped passes killed them on their first two
possessions.
No way you can assume that.
The short field they got and subsequent TD put them right back in the game and jacked their momentum sky high. It was without a doubt the turning point in the game IMO.
Their momentum was already high by that point. O’Brien panicked (somewhat rightfully) knowing his team was about to get hit by a tidal wave so he tried to sneak in some trickery and steal some momentum back, maybe rejuvenate his team and show them he was willing to be aggressive and “came win” etc. He must have really had confidence in the fake based on whatever he’s seen on film and my guess is he was going to try a fake punt at some point and figured that was the time right before the onslaught of points by KC. Honestly it almost worked if a 3rd string safety doesn’t make a great open field tackle. If it had worked let’s admit we all would have thought it was genius and fearless and “Belichick-esque”
in the big picture. KC would have have started the drive with worse field position, that’s all. They were always going to win that game and score at will. Dropped passes killed them on their first two
possessions.
No way you can assume that.
The short field they got and subsequent TD put them right back in the game and jacked their momentum sky high. It was without a doubt the turning point in the game IMO.
Their momentum was already high by that point. O’Brien panicked (somewhat rightfully) knowing his team was about to get hit by a tidal wave so he tried to sneak in some trickery and steal some momentum back, maybe rejuvenate his team and show them he was willing to be aggressive and “came win” etc. He must have really had confidence in the fake based on whatever he’s seen on film and my guess is he was going to try a fake punt at some point and figured that was the time right before the onslaught of points by KC. Honestly it almost worked if a 3rd string safety doesn’t make a great open field tackle. If it had worked let’s admit we all would have thought it was genius and fearless and “Belichick-esque”
I disagree about the Chiefs momentum being high at that point. They had one drive to that point and as said above it was set up by the kick return. They were still down 17, and this play gave them the momentum.
Risk vs reward was nowhere near worth it. Punt it away and see if they could drive the field. They hadn't done it yet, and as result of this play they scored without having to and grabbed the momentum by the throat and never gave it back.
Their momentum was already high by that point. O’Brien panicked (somewhat rightfully) knowing his team was about to get hit by a tidal wave so he tried to sneak in some trickery and steal some momentum back, maybe rejuvenate his team and show them he was willing to be aggressive and “came win” etc. He must have really had confidence in the fake based on whatever he’s seen on film and my guess is he was going to try a fake punt at some point and figured that was the time right before the onslaught of points by KC. Honestly it almost worked if a 3rd string safety doesn’t make a great open field tackle. If it had worked let’s admit we all would have thought it was genius and fearless and “Belichick-esque”
Even the few times it worked at penn state, I thought he was an idiot. I also disagree their momentum was sky high as pointed out in my last post and the post above this. Had he punted and we assume KC scores a td, time is coming off the clock. Houston is then getting the ball and milking the clock best they can. Even if they don't score, there likely would have been little time for KC to score again. I think worst case it's a 24-14 score at half. His dumb decision led to 14 pts for the chiefs.
Of the 3 young QBs Jackson,Watson and Mahomes... Â
Their momentum was already high by that point. O’Brien panicked (somewhat rightfully) knowing his team was about to get hit by a tidal wave so he tried to sneak in some trickery and steal some momentum back, maybe rejuvenate his team and show them he was willing to be aggressive and “came win” etc. He must have really had confidence in the fake based on whatever he’s seen on film and my guess is he was going to try a fake punt at some point and figured that was the time right before the onslaught of points by KC. Honestly it almost worked if a 3rd string safety doesn’t make a great open field tackle. If it had worked let’s admit we all would have thought it was genius and fearless and “Belichick-esque”
Even the few times it worked at penn state, I thought he was an idiot. I also disagree their momentum was sky high as pointed out in my last post and the post above this. Had he punted and we assume KC scores a td, time is coming off the clock. Houston is then getting the ball and milking the clock best they can. Even if they don't score, there likely would have been little time for KC to score again. I think worst case it's a 24-14 score at half. His dumb decision led to 14 pts for the chiefs.
24-14? It ended up being 24-28 at the half. I don't understand how ~40 yards of field position somehow negates 2 whole TDs by KC. There were a ton of dropped passes in the 1st quarter by the Chiefs, once they started catching the ball it was clear the Texans defense was far outmatched the entire game. Mahomes went like 90+ yards in less than 2 minutes to end the half, that had nothing to do with any sort of momentum, that was simply a result of KC's highly ranked passing offense picking apart Houston's poorly ranked passing defense.
Either way the Texans lost by 20 points. I don't know why we're making it out to be like this call by O'Brien was the make-or-break play that determined the outcome of the game. There's all this discussion of momentum, but basically what happened was: the Texans had a few big plays go their way on special teams in the first quarter (blocked punt, muffed punt) that gave them a nice lead, then the football gods returned the favor in the 2nd quarter and the Chiefs had some nice plays on special teams (Hardman return, stopped fake punt, kickoff fumbled). It was a ridiculous series of events that basically cancelled each other out and resulted in 28-24 at the half. Then the rest of the game was just the Chiefs actually catching the ball instead of dropping it and hence their superior offense (which was superior to the Texans all game regardless of momentum) scored 51 points and they won by 20.
I don't even think momentum had a whole lot to do with any of it honestly, I think the Chiefs came out rusty, dropping the ball, messing things up, and they were trying to do too much as soon as they started losing which exacerbated the situation, and then once they put together a TD drive with a short field their awesome offense settled in and had 7 straight TD drives. I think they were bound to win by 20 no matter what, the slew of special teams errors by both teams simply inflated the score and made it 51-31 as opposed to say 35-17.
What fake punt can ever guarantee your team points Â
Well yeah I did. Besides the incredibly well disguised and perfectly executed fake punts that require about 50 yard run or completion (pretty commonplace as you’ve derived) what fake punts if successful guarantee points?
They ran a safety to the outside and he had to beat the tackler. Not what you want. Give Sorenson credit for sniffing it out. Also looked like Andy Reid had the team well prepared for the fake
They ran a safety to the outside and he had to beat the tackler. Not what you want. Give Sorenson credit for sniffing it out. Also looked like Andy Reid had the team well prepared for the fake
It’s a damn good thing Sorenson tackles him because he was guaranteed to run for a long TD there...
He straddles the line between being conservative and aggressive. Kicks a FG on 4th and inches inside the 10, then a fake punt deep in KC territory.
At the end of the day, his defense couldn't make stops, and once KC figured out how to hold on to the ball, they were off to the races, so I don't know what O'Brian could have done to change that. He would infuriate me if he was our HC.
They ran a safety to the outside and he had to beat the tackler. Not what you want. Give Sorenson credit for sniffing it out. Also looked like Andy Reid had the team well prepared for the fake
It’s a damn good thing Sorenson tackles him because he was guaranteed to run for a long TD there...
Sorenson probably made the play of the season for KC that'll be forgotten before this weekend.
RE: RE: Fake punt succeeds by fooling other team Â
They ran a safety to the outside and he had to beat the tackler. Not what you want. Give Sorenson credit for sniffing it out. Also looked like Andy Reid had the team well prepared for the fake
It’s a damn good thing Sorenson tackles him because he was guaranteed to run for a long TD there...
Sorenson probably made the play of the season for KC that'll be forgotten before this weekend.
RE: RE: RE: Fake punt succeeds by fooling other team Â
They ran a safety to the outside and he had to beat the tackler. Not what you want. Give Sorenson credit for sniffing it out. Also looked like Andy Reid had the team well prepared for the fake
It’s a damn good thing Sorenson tackles him because he was guaranteed to run for a long TD there...
Sorenson probably made the play of the season for KC that'll be forgotten before this weekend.
the early stops were due to dropped passes.
In that sense taking chance on a fake punt was worth it, i still think the timing was poor with the lead he had, but i think i understand his thinking
Sometime between the 4th and 1 FG and the fake punt, O'Brien grew a set of balls and lost a portion of his brain.
What a weak ass call vs a team that can score at will. That possibly could have been a dagger if they convert that and score a TD.
You have to go for it there. It was a no brainer.
Epic collapse though. They could have had them 28-0.
If it succeeds, you aren't even guaranteed to get points. It was just a terrible risk to take.
agree
Sometime between the 4th and 1 FG and the fake punt, O'Brien grew a set of balls and lost a portion of his brain.
I said the same exact thing....going up 28-0 is worth the small risk....it's such a psychological hurdle it's worth the risk
Epic collapse though. They could have had them 28-0.
It was in no way shape or form a great call. Even if it succeeded they weren't guaranteed any points there as they were still well in their own end.
As others have said it was too great a risk with the reward not coming close if it worked. They already had a 17 point lead and ended up giving KC all the momentum and they never looked back. Foolish risk there and they paid the price for being dumb.
More egregious was earlier in the game, kicking the FG on 4th and 1 when it looked like you were going to go for it.
Sure, the Chiefs were scoring 50+ points. But did O'Brien really think that was going to happen? I beg to differ...this is a team that had beaten KC already earlier in the season in KC. And sure Mahomes was not 100%...but still.........
Tell O'Brien they were going to score 31, I'm sure he would have thought they had a pretty good shot at winning the game.
Not a fan of O'Brien.
the early stops were due to dropped passes.
In that sense taking chance on a fake punt was worth it, i still think the timing was poor with the lead he had, but i think i understand his thinking
I understand that as well, and that's why I feel like the decision to do a fake punt was less egregious than kicking the FG earlier was.
The two decisions aren't compatible with one another.
possessions.
possessions.
No way you can assume that.
The short field they got and subsequent TD put them right back in the game and jacked their momentum sky high. It was without a doubt the turning point in the game IMO.
The direct snap to
reasons is how you do it .
Sometime between the 4th and 1 FG and the fake punt, O'Brien grew a set of balls and lost a portion of his brain.
Agree. He should have reversed the decisions, go for it on the fourth and short and punt on the 4th and 3.
And then down 17 with half the 4th quarter left he was going to punt? And had to burn a TO when he realized how dumb that was?
What the hell is wrong with these coaches? That should be fireable along with Zimmer punting down 3 scores with 9 minutes left.
Quote:
inconsistent.
Sometime between the 4th and 1 FG and the fake punt, O'Brien grew a set of balls and lost a portion of his brain.
Agree. He should have reversed the decisions, go for it on the fourth and short and punt on the 4th and 3.
And then down 17 with half the 4th quarter left he was going to punt? And had to burn a TO when he realized how dumb that was?
What the hell is wrong with these coaches? That should be fireable along with Zimmer punting down 3 scores with 9 minutes left.
Yeah I agree about how he should've reversed those decisions. It was almost as if he knew he messed up not going for it on 4th and short and tried to make up for it.
Reminded me of Shurmur down two scores punting on 4th and 3 around midfield vs the Pats this year and then going for 4th and 15 on his own 30 or so the following week vs the Cards.
Quote:
inconsistent.
Sometime between the 4th and 1 FG and the fake punt, O'Brien grew a set of balls and lost a portion of his brain.
I said the same exact thing....going up 28-0 is worth the small risk....it's such a psychological hurdle it's worth the risk
It would have just made the comeback more impressive and history-making.
Quote:
in the big picture. KC would have have started the drive with worse field position, that’s all. They were always going to win that game and score at will. Dropped passes killed them on their first two
possessions.
No way you can assume that.
The short field they got and subsequent TD put them right back in the game and jacked their momentum sky high. It was without a doubt the turning point in the game IMO.
Their momentum was already high by that point. O’Brien panicked (somewhat rightfully) knowing his team was about to get hit by a tidal wave so he tried to sneak in some trickery and steal some momentum back, maybe rejuvenate his team and show them he was willing to be aggressive and “came win” etc. He must have really had confidence in the fake based on whatever he’s seen on film and my guess is he was going to try a fake punt at some point and figured that was the time right before the onslaught of points by KC. Honestly it almost worked if a 3rd string safety doesn’t make a great open field tackle. If it had worked let’s admit we all would have thought it was genius and fearless and “Belichick-esque”
If it succeeds, you aren't even guaranteed to get points. It was just a terrible risk to take.
Bingo.
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In comment 14775961 Irish said:
Quote:
in the big picture. KC would have have started the drive with worse field position, that’s all. They were always going to win that game and score at will. Dropped passes killed them on their first two
possessions.
No way you can assume that.
The short field they got and subsequent TD put them right back in the game and jacked their momentum sky high. It was without a doubt the turning point in the game IMO.
Their momentum was already high by that point. O’Brien panicked (somewhat rightfully) knowing his team was about to get hit by a tidal wave so he tried to sneak in some trickery and steal some momentum back, maybe rejuvenate his team and show them he was willing to be aggressive and “came win” etc. He must have really had confidence in the fake based on whatever he’s seen on film and my guess is he was going to try a fake punt at some point and figured that was the time right before the onslaught of points by KC. Honestly it almost worked if a 3rd string safety doesn’t make a great open field tackle. If it had worked let’s admit we all would have thought it was genius and fearless and “Belichick-esque”
I disagree about the Chiefs momentum being high at that point. They had one drive to that point and as said above it was set up by the kick return. They were still down 17, and this play gave them the momentum.
Risk vs reward was nowhere near worth it. Punt it away and see if they could drive the field. They hadn't done it yet, and as result of this play they scored without having to and grabbed the momentum by the throat and never gave it back.
Their momentum was already high by that point. O’Brien panicked (somewhat rightfully) knowing his team was about to get hit by a tidal wave so he tried to sneak in some trickery and steal some momentum back, maybe rejuvenate his team and show them he was willing to be aggressive and “came win” etc. He must have really had confidence in the fake based on whatever he’s seen on film and my guess is he was going to try a fake punt at some point and figured that was the time right before the onslaught of points by KC. Honestly it almost worked if a 3rd string safety doesn’t make a great open field tackle. If it had worked let’s admit we all would have thought it was genius and fearless and “Belichick-esque”
Even the few times it worked at penn state, I thought he was an idiot. I also disagree their momentum was sky high as pointed out in my last post and the post above this. Had he punted and we assume KC scores a td, time is coming off the clock. Houston is then getting the ball and milking the clock best they can. Even if they don't score, there likely would have been little time for KC to score again. I think worst case it's a 24-14 score at half. His dumb decision led to 14 pts for the chiefs.
Quote:
Their momentum was already high by that point. O’Brien panicked (somewhat rightfully) knowing his team was about to get hit by a tidal wave so he tried to sneak in some trickery and steal some momentum back, maybe rejuvenate his team and show them he was willing to be aggressive and “came win” etc. He must have really had confidence in the fake based on whatever he’s seen on film and my guess is he was going to try a fake punt at some point and figured that was the time right before the onslaught of points by KC. Honestly it almost worked if a 3rd string safety doesn’t make a great open field tackle. If it had worked let’s admit we all would have thought it was genius and fearless and “Belichick-esque”
Even the few times it worked at penn state, I thought he was an idiot. I also disagree their momentum was sky high as pointed out in my last post and the post above this. Had he punted and we assume KC scores a td, time is coming off the clock. Houston is then getting the ball and milking the clock best they can. Even if they don't score, there likely would have been little time for KC to score again. I think worst case it's a 24-14 score at half. His dumb decision led to 14 pts for the chiefs.
24-14? It ended up being 24-28 at the half. I don't understand how ~40 yards of field position somehow negates 2 whole TDs by KC. There were a ton of dropped passes in the 1st quarter by the Chiefs, once they started catching the ball it was clear the Texans defense was far outmatched the entire game. Mahomes went like 90+ yards in less than 2 minutes to end the half, that had nothing to do with any sort of momentum, that was simply a result of KC's highly ranked passing offense picking apart Houston's poorly ranked passing defense.
Either way the Texans lost by 20 points. I don't know why we're making it out to be like this call by O'Brien was the make-or-break play that determined the outcome of the game. There's all this discussion of momentum, but basically what happened was: the Texans had a few big plays go their way on special teams in the first quarter (blocked punt, muffed punt) that gave them a nice lead, then the football gods returned the favor in the 2nd quarter and the Chiefs had some nice plays on special teams (Hardman return, stopped fake punt, kickoff fumbled). It was a ridiculous series of events that basically cancelled each other out and resulted in 28-24 at the half. Then the rest of the game was just the Chiefs actually catching the ball instead of dropping it and hence their superior offense (which was superior to the Texans all game regardless of momentum) scored 51 points and they won by 20.
I don't even think momentum had a whole lot to do with any of it honestly, I think the Chiefs came out rusty, dropping the ball, messing things up, and they were trying to do too much as soon as they started losing which exacerbated the situation, and then once they put together a TD drive with a short field their awesome offense settled in and had 7 straight TD drives. I think they were bound to win by 20 no matter what, the slew of special teams errors by both teams simply inflated the score and made it 51-31 as opposed to say 35-17.
Umm. For starters, a fake punt that actually scores a TD.
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if successful?
Umm. For starters, a fake punt that actually scores a TD.
umm, hopefully you have more than this...
I really don't need more than to show that a fake punt that goes for a TD guarantees points. Because it does exactly that.
But you were itching to try and post some sort of pithy crap.
Well Done, Ace.
The thread will be here when you want to respond to my question...
Well yeah I did. Besides the incredibly well disguised and perfectly executed fake punts that require about 50 yard run or completion (pretty commonplace as you’ve derived) what fake punts if successful guarantee points?
It’s a damn good thing Sorenson tackles him because he was guaranteed to run for a long TD there...
At the end of the day, his defense couldn't make stops, and once KC figured out how to hold on to the ball, they were off to the races, so I don't know what O'Brian could have done to change that. He would infuriate me if he was our HC.
Quote:
They ran a safety to the outside and he had to beat the tackler. Not what you want. Give Sorenson credit for sniffing it out. Also looked like Andy Reid had the team well prepared for the fake
It’s a damn good thing Sorenson tackles him because he was guaranteed to run for a long TD there...
Sorenson probably made the play of the season for KC that'll be forgotten before this weekend.
Quote:
They ran a safety to the outside and he had to beat the tackler. Not what you want. Give Sorenson credit for sniffing it out. Also looked like Andy Reid had the team well prepared for the fake
It’s a damn good thing Sorenson tackles him because he was guaranteed to run for a long TD there...
Sorenson probably made the play of the season for KC that'll be forgotten before this weekend.
Quote:
In comment 14776202 Vanzetti said:
Quote:
They ran a safety to the outside and he had to beat the tackler. Not what you want. Give Sorenson credit for sniffing it out. Also looked like Andy Reid had the team well prepared for the fake
It’s a damn good thing Sorenson tackles him because he was guaranteed to run for a long TD there...
Sorenson probably made the play of the season for KC that'll be forgotten before this weekend.
Guaranteed...