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LSU safety Grant Delpit

barens : 1/13/2020 8:18 am
Was wondering what some of the college football fans think about Delpit. I sort of wrote him off earlier in the season, because he wasn't really living up to expectations for whatever reason, but his play has picked up in the second half of the season.

He'll be on display tonight, but I'm wondering if he has a big game, could he be in the conversation at #4?
I think #4 is too high for him  
JonC : 1/13/2020 8:20 am : link
but I like his game much more than Simmons for NYG.
I feel like Simmons could have a better game tonight than  
barens : 1/13/2020 8:25 am : link
against Ohio State. As good as Burrow is, Ohio States run/pass option makes everyone look bad. But we shall see very soon.

I happen to agree that 4 may be too high, but if there aren't any trade down partners, what do you do? JonC, I know you are not a fan of Simmons, nor Andrew Thomas or Wills at that spot. What do you do if they are stuck at #4?
More of a strong safety  
jeff57 : 1/13/2020 8:30 am : link
Who missed a lot of tackles this season. Simmons is a FS, which is what the Giants need. Would love to see him available at 36, buy don't know if he will be.
I know, been complaining about it since before beating the Redskins  
JonC : 1/13/2020 8:31 am : link
and costing us Young.

It's still early, hopefully one of the OTs proves me wrong or Okudah is there at #4. My instinct is NYG will go OT if Okudah and Young are gone, but a lot could change by the time the Combines wrap. That's usually when I hear good info.

What about Xavier McKinnie  
NikkiMac : 1/13/2020 8:58 am : link
Safety from Alabama where do you think he fits in the draft and is he better than Delpit?


Delpit played injured most of the year  
Rick in Dallas : 1/13/2020 9:01 am : link
I believe he is now healthy for the championship game. I will be watching him , Simmons and Chaisson tonight. All 3 possible top 15 picks in the draft.
Excellent player who took a little bit of a step back this year, but  
Anakim : 1/13/2020 9:02 am : link
that could be due to a nagging ankle injury (I believe it was his ankle).

If he's there in the second round, he'd be an excellent get. I wonder if he has a Landon Collins-esque tumble on Draft Day...
I'd keep an eye on another kid as the pre-draft process unfolds:  
Klaatu : 1/13/2020 9:03 am : link
FSU's Hamsah Nasirildeen. Not quite the finished product that Simmons is, but in that same hybrid LB/S mold at 6-4, 215, with the frame to add another 10 or 15 pounds.
Supposedly McKinney is the zone defender out of  
idiotsavant : 1/13/2020 9:15 am : link
The current top 5 safeties which (zone pass D) is exactly what this roster is lacking .

Zone PD from distance

less dependant on being coached up but still coachable

There are probably more of those zone pass defenders ..but ..

I'd draft two safeties to be clear, both with zone pd skills.

Not against the lb tweeners but most if those seem like chase players not anticipate players

That may the the thing about  
idiotsavant : 1/13/2020 9:16 am : link
Having 4 rookie man cover corners. You really need zone pd safeties and we have none .
I like our safety’s Love and Peppers  
superspynyg : 1/13/2020 9:16 am : link
They are young and talented. Love is a ball hawk and can be a real good center fielder given time.

But I would also would not mind tracing down getting more picks and taking him then. Love would move to CB with Baker and Beal.
I think Love and Peppers start at safety next season. Delpit is a  
Ira : 1/13/2020 9:18 am : link
good player, but not at 4. Simmons could be the kind of player who starts at linebacker but moves around as needed.
Or put that another way  
idiotsavant : 1/13/2020 9:20 am : link
Some may climb the charts due to (height weight plus speed)

Which isn't the same as (zone savvy plus speed)
Love is still a major question mark  
idiotsavant : 1/13/2020 9:21 am : link
.
RE: I know, been complaining about it since before beating the Redskins  
Giants38 : 1/13/2020 9:27 am : link
In comment 14776150 JonC said:
Quote:
and costing us Young.

It's still early, hopefully one of the OTs proves me wrong or Okudah is there at #4. My instinct is NYG will go OT if Okudah and Young are gone, but a lot could change by the time the Combines wrap. That's usually when I hear good info.


It may have cost us Young, but it put us in much better position to trade down, if Gettleman will finally open his eyes to that possibility. I strongly feel that a team is going to want to move to 4 to get Tua or Herbert - depending on what happens at 3 with the Lions (and them trading down themselves) - but we could command a bounty. And we need those picks if we want to "build through the draft," particularly after Gettleman pretty much pissed away a third on Leonard Williams.
Simmons at #36?  
Carl in CT : 1/13/2020 9:34 am : link
He is not getting out of the top 15. Maybe top 5 or 10. Jesus.
What I would not do is add another "athlete " safety  
idiotsavant : 1/13/2020 9:34 am : link
Such as Pepper's. Who is useful but we have that.

You want true anticipation read and break on ball zone pass defenders at safety . At least 1.

Which will effect how the corners are able to play in terms of assignments and technique and on up from there effect the whole D.

Certainly, a lb that can shadow a te is great also (Carter?) But that's another position entirely not "either one or the other"

Distinct needs.
RE: RE: I know, been complaining about it since before beating the Redskins  
JonC : 1/13/2020 9:36 am : link
In comment 14776251 Giants38 said:
Quote:
In comment 14776150 JonC said:


Quote:


and costing us Young.

It's still early, hopefully one of the OTs proves me wrong or Okudah is there at #4. My instinct is NYG will go OT if Okudah and Young are gone, but a lot could change by the time the Combines wrap. That's usually when I hear good info.




It may have cost us Young, but it put us in much better position to trade down, if Gettleman will finally open his eyes to that possibility. I strongly feel that a team is going to want to move to 4 to get Tua or Herbert - depending on what happens at 3 with the Lions (and them trading down themselves) - but we could command a bounty. And we need those picks if we want to "build through the draft," particularly after Gettleman pretty much pissed away a third on Leonard Williams.


It cost us Young and the catbird seat to trade down.

If the Lions trade down and Tua is gone, I think we go Okudah.
RE: Simmons at #36?  
jeff57 : 1/13/2020 9:37 am : link
In comment 14776266 Carl in CT said:
Quote:
He is not getting out of the top 15. Maybe top 5 or 10. Jesus.


Not going that high.
It's certainly not going to be easy  
idiotsavant : 1/13/2020 9:39 am : link
To replicate Pat's discipline and multiplicity in dbacks without additional staff.

Many examples among the corners but even safety Pepper's was slow or unreliable in choosing to follow tight ends as opposed to run gap Hawking
I like Love's versatility. I figure Judge will, too.  
Klaatu : 1/13/2020 9:39 am : link
But I'd prefer a taller, faster, "rangier" FS. More of a true Centerfielder, a la Justin Simmons.

Peppers' injury is worrisome to me. I'm glad the Giants decided to shut him down when they did. Honestly, though, I wasn't too enthralled by his play this year. Maybe I was expecting too much from him, but it seemed to me that he made more than his share of mistakes. Contract year for him next year. Hard to tell if he's in the Giants long-term plans.
Centerfielder yes the teams biggest need possibly  
idiotsavant : 1/13/2020 9:47 am : link
That said , work the numbers, adding in the additional requirement of 'tall' greatly reduces your probability of finding one in the draft.

As you exclude most prospects to fit the requirement of those few inches.

Emphasise zone PD #1 then speed #2 then tackling
RE: I like Love's versatility. I figure Judge will, too.  
SirLoinOfBeef : 1/13/2020 9:50 am : link
In comment 14776278 Klaatu said:
Quote:
But I'd prefer a taller, faster, "rangier" FS. More of a true Centerfielder, a la Justin Simmons.

Peppers' injury is worrisome to me. I'm glad the Giants decided to shut him down when they did. Honestly, though, I wasn't too enthralled by his play this year. Maybe I was expecting too much from him, but it seemed to me that he made more than his share of mistakes. Contract year for him next year. Hard to tell if he's in the Giants long-term plans.


I agree on Justin Simmons. Like his game a lot. I'd like to see them spend the money on him instead of Leonard Williams. Simmons will be a bit more, but his game is with it. Then we can decide on Peppers' future as well.

Then Draft Isaiah Simmons (hopefully with a slight trade down).
It will continue to not matter who  
Dnew15 : 1/13/2020 9:56 am : link
is in the secondary if no one can rush the passer from the edges.
I thought Isaiah Simmons  
Jay in Toronto : 1/13/2020 9:57 am : link
is an OLB. If he is thought of as a S, would it be more a SS or does he have the speed/range and ball sense for FS?
RE: RE: I like Love's versatility. I figure Judge will, too.  
Klaatu : 1/13/2020 9:57 am : link
In comment 14776296 SirLoinOfBeef said:
Quote:
In comment 14776278 Klaatu said:


Quote:


But I'd prefer a taller, faster, "rangier" FS. More of a true Centerfielder, a la Justin Simmons.

Peppers' injury is worrisome to me. I'm glad the Giants decided to shut him down when they did. Honestly, though, I wasn't too enthralled by his play this year. Maybe I was expecting too much from him, but it seemed to me that he made more than his share of mistakes. Contract year for him next year. Hard to tell if he's in the Giants long-term plans.



I agree on Justin Simmons. Like his game a lot. I'd like to see them spend the money on him instead of Leonard Williams. Simmons will be a bit more, but his game is with it. Then we can decide on Peppers' future as well.

Then Draft Isaiah Simmons (hopefully with a slight trade down).


My guess is that Denver will tag Simmons if they don't agree on a contract. I don't think they'll let him hit the open market.

(Damn you, Jerry Reese, for passing on Simmons in favor of Darian Thompson!)
Regarding draft  
idiotsavant : 1/13/2020 9:57 am : link
And extrapolating into tasks .

One thing we've learned that some GMs haven't is that field vision is innate. Your born with it

Whereas for example, balance can be improved upon field vision not as much

So the old world view of draft size speed combo and coach em up doesn't always work .

Your better off letting the #s, the pds and INTs and assignment type and context speak for themselves or simply read the pundits or ask Sy to break out the deep zone safeties ability to read and anticipate and just draft two to make sure.

Aaand yes, tackling counts..

Also  
idiotsavant : 1/13/2020 10:02 am : link
Maybe I read it wrong but we don't even have a dedicated safeties coach!

Eric Weddle anybody?

Sy...we need you!
And yes  
idiotsavant : 1/13/2020 10:14 am : link
I liked Darian T. I admit it .

Sy! 😁
Eric Weddle..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 1/13/2020 10:16 am : link
might want to actually keep playing on Sundays.

But to be fair, that was the only two words I understood in those three posts of babble.
RE: RE: RE: I like Love's versatility. I figure Judge will, too.  
SirLoinOfBeef : 1/13/2020 10:18 am : link
In comment 14776310 Klaatu said:
Quote:
In comment 14776296 SirLoinOfBeef said:


Quote:


In comment 14776278 Klaatu said:


Quote:


But I'd prefer a taller, faster, "rangier" FS. More of a true Centerfielder, a la Justin Simmons.

Peppers' injury is worrisome to me. I'm glad the Giants decided to shut him down when they did. Honestly, though, I wasn't too enthralled by his play this year. Maybe I was expecting too much from him, but it seemed to me that he made more than his share of mistakes. Contract year for him next year. Hard to tell if he's in the Giants long-term plans.



I agree on Justin Simmons. Like his game a lot. I'd like to see them spend the money on him instead of Leonard Williams. Simmons will be a bit more, but his game is with it. Then we can decide on Peppers' future as well.

Then Draft Isaiah Simmons (hopefully with a slight trade down).



My guess is that Denver will tag Simmons if they don't agree on a contract. I don't think they'll let him hit the open market.

(Damn you, Jerry Reese, for passing on Simmons in favor of Darian Thompson!)


Yep, yet another bright move by our former GM...

If they do tag Simmons to eventually sign him, that would make a very expensive position group with him and Kareem Jackson (whom they signed recently).

Hopefully Elway wants to spread the $$ around the roster a bit more...
RE: RE: I know, been complaining about it since before beating the Redskins  
Section331 : 1/13/2020 10:19 am : link
In comment 14776251 Giants38 said:
Quote:

It may have cost us Young, but it put us in much better position to trade down, if Gettleman will finally open his eyes to that possibility. I strongly feel that a team is going to want to move to 4 to get Tua or Herbert - depending on what happens at 3 with the Lions (and them trading down themselves) - but we could command a bounty. And we need those picks if we want to "build through the draft," particularly after Gettleman pretty much pissed away a third on Leonard Williams.


This. If Okudah is gone, that would mean that only 1 QB is off the board, Some team is going to be desperate enough to give up assets for Tua or one of the other QB's. I really hope DG answers the phone this time.
Thanks fatty  
idiotsavant : 1/13/2020 10:27 am : link
I'd translate for you but I gotta go do some stuff.

Brief version:

ZONE pass defense with speed from distance x2 . Go get it.
Also fatty  
idiotsavant : 1/13/2020 10:29 am : link
"those were the two"

Not

"That was the two "

Sheesh people
Yeah..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 1/13/2020 10:33 am : link
even the translation leaves a lot to be desired.

I'll run through Google Translate to see if it helps...
Personally  
GoDeep13 : 1/13/2020 10:33 am : link
I think this is the game Simmons solidifies himself as a top 5 pick (and probably our pick). The only way I see Clemson winning or being competitive is Simmons ability in coverage. If he’s buzzing around the middle of the field he’ll make Burrow’s job a lot harder.
More to the point  
idiotsavant : 1/13/2020 10:35 am : link
Proven zone pd skills not the presumptions regarding "we can coach it." Which is often untrue.

Plus speed.

Plus tackling:

which I think was the weakspot sy saw in Darian Thompson.

To be honest j don't watch much college ball. Much less 'tape' . Generally booring as fuck (games) and / or doesn't pay ("tape")
Fmic  
idiotsavant : 1/13/2020 10:36 am : link
It won't .
Yep..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 1/13/2020 10:37 am : link
you're right.

That language doesn't appear to be in the coding.

Oh well.
Speed doesn't hurt  
JonC : 1/13/2020 10:39 am : link
but if you're running Zone, it's dual-safeties and speed is of less emphasis.
RE: RE: RE: I know, been complaining about it since before beating the Redskins  
barens : 1/13/2020 10:43 am : link
In comment 14776350 Section331 said:
Quote:
In comment 14776251 Giants38 said:


Quote:



It may have cost us Young, but it put us in much better position to trade down, if Gettleman will finally open his eyes to that possibility. I strongly feel that a team is going to want to move to 4 to get Tua or Herbert - depending on what happens at 3 with the Lions (and them trading down themselves) - but we could command a bounty. And we need those picks if we want to "build through the draft," particularly after Gettleman pretty much pissed away a third on Leonard Williams.



This. If Okudah is gone, that would mean that only 1 QB is off the board, Some team is going to be desperate enough to give up assets for Tua or one of the other QB's. I really hope DG answers the phone this time.


I'm not confident at all that teams are going to be desperate to trade up for Tua. I think that's a tough sell. Herbert on the other hand, if he has a great Senior Bowl week showing, then that could be very exciting for us.
I think that people are  
Dnew15 : 1/13/2020 10:48 am : link
greatly underestimating the QB crop this year and the number of teams that are in need of a QB.

I think Tue/Herbert are the tip of the iceberg in terms of QBs that will be flying up the board come this spring.
no more LSU players  
mdc1 : 1/13/2020 10:58 am : link
dumb as rocks, regardless of their talent.
Fmic  
idiotsavant : 1/13/2020 11:25 am : link
Love Google though ofc
Both LSU db's look legit this year  
ghost718 : 1/13/2020 12:22 pm : link
in terms of physical talent. Delpit and Kristian Fulton.

Sometimes these kids benefit from LSU's reputation,same with Ohio St.But I don't think that's the case here.
RE: no more LSU players  
BSIMatt : 1/13/2020 12:54 pm : link
In comment 14776418 mdc1 said:
Quote:
dumb as rocks, regardless of their talent.

3 first team all pro defensive backs from LSU this year...and we couldn't stop the pass to save our lives. But carry on...
'If the Lions trade down and Tua is gone, I think we go Okudah'  
Torrag : 1/13/2020 1:10 pm : link
/nod or we also trade down.

Their will be a push for 3 QB's in the Top 10 imo. If you need one you can't sit at your draft slot and hope. You have to be aggressive. There are six teams in the Top 14 that could be in that mindset.

Bengals Burrow
Redskins Young
Trade up for for Tua
Giants draft Okudah or trade down.

As far as Delpit I prefer McKinney from 'Bama. He's been healthier and more consistently impactful than Delpit. I think he's more instinctive as well which is evidenced higher tackle production and the more physical tackler resulting in more forced fumbles.
Have to root like hell for Herbert to climb  
JonC : 1/13/2020 1:13 pm : link
to give us the trade down option, if Tua goes #3, etc.

Not a great year to need two OTs and ER while picking #4.
'Have to root like hell for Herbert to climb'  
Torrag : 1/13/2020 1:21 pm : link
Honestly noone knows how teams rate these QB's. Jones was considered a major reach by pretty much everyone at #6 including the entire BBI contingent. Of all positions it's the most difficult to handicap for the Draft. Teams will go through all sort of mental gymnastics and contortions to convince themselves on a QB if they are in need. Herbert is playing in the Senior Bowl. That's where we'll start to get a feel for the buzz on him.

To me the telling point is how many teams are QB poor. In the end I think all three go off in the Top 5.
RE: 'Have to root like hell for Herbert to climb'  
Klaatu : 1/13/2020 2:00 pm : link
In comment 14776768 Torrag said:
Quote:
Honestly noone knows how teams rate these QB's. Jones was considered a major reach by pretty much everyone at #6 including the entire BBI contingent. Of all positions it's the most difficult to handicap for the Draft. Teams will go through all sort of mental gymnastics and contortions to convince themselves on a QB if they are in need. Herbert is playing in the Senior Bowl. That's where we'll start to get a feel for the buzz on him.

To me the telling point is how many teams are QB poor. In the end I think all three go off in the Top 5.


Torrag, you may know your QB's (and your Safeties) but..."noone" isn't a word (unless you're talking about Peter Noone, the lead singer of Herman's Hermits). The correct usage is "no one."

Thanks in advance for your cooperation - The Grammar Police.
"noone" isn't a word  
Torrag : 1/13/2020 2:06 pm : link
I'm lucky to have gotten all the correct letters in. You could cut me some slack on spacing.

About football. I'm legit hoping Judge, having personnel experience, and coming from a program that aggressively and effectively move around the draft board can infuse some of that mentality into our approach.
RE: I like our safety’s Love and Peppers  
santacruzom : 1/13/2020 2:28 pm : link
In comment 14776229 superspynyg said:
Quote:
They are young and talented. Love is a ball hawk and can be a real good center fielder given time.


Yeah, but neither of those guys are good enough to render taking a talented S prospect unnecessary. And you can say that for nearly every position on our team.
+1 that with the added impetus of synergy  
idiotsavant : 1/13/2020 3:14 pm : link
Maybe trade down a bit, take mckinney and the best more conventional ilb prospect.

2 second search said McKinney is good at zone PD. Maybe it said great.
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