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NFT: BREAKING: Astros Punishment Announced

Anando : 1/13/2020 1:57 pm
Quote:

Jeff Passan
@JeffPassan
·
1m
BREAKING: Houston Astros GM Jeff Luhnow and manager AJ Hinch have been suspended for one year after an MLB investigation found the team used technology to cheat during its World Series-winning 2017 season, sources familiar with the punishment tell ESPN.
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Wait--  
GruningsOnTheHill : 1/13/2020 7:40 pm : link
the Red Sox are implicated in this? I thought George Mitchell said they don't cheat.
how about we not bash mets fans on  
Rory : 1/13/2020 8:01 pm : link
a post that captures with the repercussions of cheating.

Not too long ago Yankees were subject of similar talks, how about we talk about 09 world series with Arod or we can chat about Clemens.

now go kick rocks

RE: RE: shyster beat me to it.  
speedywheels : 1/13/2020 8:11 pm : link
In comment 14777475 Dave in Hoboken said:
Quote:
In comment 14777438 bceagle05 said:


Quote:


It's killing people that the Yankees aren't implicated in this scandal. Nope, the shameful participants all reside in Houston, Boston and Queens.



Every game (not that it will be many considering it's the Mets) that the Mets win next season will be questioned now. So glad I root for the baseball team in NY that people actually care about and not the Jets of MLB.


No one will question shit next year.

You're so fucking fragile it's pathetic.
Talk about hammer time  
Carson53 : 1/14/2020 8:33 am : link
Well, the Astros got nailed good, lost draft picks too.
I expect Cora to get at minimum, a year off as well.
I am a bit surprised that Beltran didn't get about
50 games, as a suspension. I guess MLB didn't want to go down that road, of what players to suspend too.
LOL..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 1/14/2020 8:36 am : link
Well that went South quickly.

I can see how when a thread tries to get made into a Mets one for no fucking reason.....
RE: how about we not bash mets fans on  
section125 : 1/14/2020 8:39 am : link
In comment 14777672 Rory said:
Quote:
a post that captures with the repercussions of cheating.

Not too long ago Yankees were subject of similar talks, how about we talk about 09 world series with Arod or we can chat about Clemens.

now go kick rocks


Refresh my memory on 2009.

As for Clemens and ARod are you talking about steroids? If so, then you need to talk about 50% of the league.
Everyone should enjoy this to some degree  
mattnyg05 : 1/14/2020 8:45 am : link
Whether you are a Yankee or Met fan... If you’re a fan of baseball, this is somewhat of a black eye, but hopefully it’s enough of a deterrent to get it to stop completely soon.

I just don’t understand why this has to be a Yankee hater met fan thread. It is very Jet esque... any victory they have has to come with a “fuck you Yankees” whereas when the Yankees win something the absolute last thing on their fans minds is the Mets. Oh well.
Yeah, sure Mets fans made it about the Mets  
pjcas18 : 1/14/2020 8:51 am : link
if you care to, you can isolate the moment it became anti-Mets with this poster artificially inflating Beltran's involvement.


Quote:
I'm surprised Beltran is getting off scot free
Ron from Ninerland : 1/13/2020 3:00 pm : link : reply
According to reports Cora and Beltran were the ringleaders. You'd think that Beltran would at least get a fine. Maybe they figure that managing the Mets is punishment enough.
And I can GUARANTEE you  
mattnyg05 : 1/14/2020 8:51 am : link
That If the Mets lost to the Braves two out of three years in the NLCS, and lost to the Phillies one year later in an ALCS, that their fans would be off the charts if said teams were embroiled in a cheating deal like the Astros and Red Sox with Cora.

As a Yankee fan I say fuck you to the Astros and the Sox and I hope the Yankees aren’t involved. So far so good.
Nobody has said Beltran is involved?  
mattnyg05 : 1/14/2020 8:52 am : link
Thought I read that somewhere too.
I can't actually..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 1/14/2020 8:54 am : link
isolate most of the nonsense because it ended up being dozens of posts arguing against windmills all with delusional Mets crap in there.
Beltran  
pjcas18 : 1/14/2020 8:56 am : link
was involved, the same way all the players were involved.

Every one of them knew this was happening.

No players were punished. In any way.

And nowhere did i read Beltran was a ringleader. His name was mentioned in the MLB investigation report one time - that's it - and it's mentioned matter of factly, and nowhere did it say his role was any more than any other player.

Cora is a different story.
Probably has been mentioned  
mattnyg05 : 1/14/2020 8:57 am : link
But I feel like the only reason Beltran avoided punishment is because he was a player and not a coach or front office person.

And he was a Yankee advisor last year so who knows what he did there, but this from the report:

“Approximately two months into the 2017 season, a group of players, including Carlos Beltran, discussed that the team could improve on decoding opposing teams’ signs and communicating the signs to the batter,’’ the report stated. “[Then Houston bench coach Alex] Cora arranged for a video room technician to install a monitor displaying the center field camera feed immediately outside of the Astros’ dugout. (The center field camera was primarily used for player development purposes and was allowed under MLB rules at the time when used for that purpose.)“
No, the report doesn't identify Beltran as the ringleader  
Greg from LI : 1/14/2020 8:59 am : link
But it's fair to wonder why he's the only player named in the report.
RE: I can't actually..  
pjcas18 : 1/14/2020 8:59 am : link
In comment 14778286 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
isolate most of the nonsense because it ended up being dozens of posts arguing against windmills all with delusional Mets crap in there.


I isolated it for you. And who cares, these internet battles happen a hundred times a day. Probably more.

I have no issue with the lame joke in that post either. People think it's funny to take shots at the Mets (and then claim when Mets fans respond it's because they have an "inferiority complex" - lol - whatever) - it's the lying about Beltran that I replied to. And it's not that I care about that either, but it was made up, so I felt the need to correct it.

I expect you would understand that.
RE: No, the report doesn't identify Beltran as the ringleader  
pjcas18 : 1/14/2020 9:00 am : link
In comment 14778307 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
But it's fair to wonder why he's the only player named in the report.


Maybe because he's the only one who is no longer a player and is now a manager.
Beltran  
Drewcon40 : 1/14/2020 9:04 am : link
was hired by the Mets AFTER all of this mess.

Beltran was an employee of the Yankees last year in a role that wouldn't have any impact in cheating.

The Yankees have a gripe because they are contenders (not ashamed to admit it) and the cheating may have prevented them from their higher goals.

But some trolls always have to take shots at the Mets for some unknown reason.
Judge deleted his Instagram post congratulating Altuve  
Greg from LI : 1/14/2020 9:05 am : link
for winning the 2017 MVP.

Shit just got real.
not a great look for Beltran  
bigbluehoya : 1/14/2020 9:09 am : link
but for better or worse, Manfred was pretty clear that it was going to be GMs and coaches that took the heat.

Once all punishments are doled out, I'd be in favor of the commissioner issuing one final warning that from here out, players, coaches, GMs, etc are all fair game. And that it will include the cheaters as well as anyone for whom there is evidence that they knew of the cheating and did nothing to stop it or whistleblow.

Separate/final thought - the false equivalency of the current cheating scandal to steroids is about as weak and lazy as it gets.
RE: RE: No, the report doesn't identify Beltran as the ringleader  
Chris684 : 1/14/2020 9:10 am : link
In comment 14778310 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
In comment 14778307 Greg from LI said:


Quote:


But it's fair to wonder why he's the only player named in the report.



Maybe because he's the only one who is no longer a player and is now a manager.


It's pretty obvious that Mets fans did nothing on this thread other than respond to accusations that Beltran was somehow a "ringleader" in all of this.

Whatever Beltran's involvement in this was, there was responsibility at the level and two levels above him or any other player, to shut it down. Which is why those two individuals are now both suspended and unemployed.

If MLB wants to issue a public warning to the Mets and/or Beltran since he's now in a managerial role? Fine.

Most of the other shit posted above from Yankees fans is just the usual impulse to knock the Mets and then turn any defense of the Mets into an obsession with the Yankees.

Typical.
pjcas  
Bill2 : 1/14/2020 9:15 am : link
Wasn't Beltran a New York Yankee?

Wasn't he also recruited as a coach and perhaps manager for them? Wasn't he also a special advisor to Cashman?

Didn't he play for SEVEN baseball teams?

So why is criticism of a Houston Astro, Texas Ranger, New York Yankee, Kansas City Royal, San Francisco Giant, and St Louis Cardinal going after the Mets or Mets fans???

He played 3 years for the Mets and signed a 3 year deal with the Yankees?

Is it possible that comments about Beltran are actually about Beltran and not about your feelings?

Are you ok?
Mets fans  
Ryan in Albany : 1/14/2020 9:17 am : link
are triggered and I find it extremely entertaining.
Bill..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 1/14/2020 9:19 am : link
Well put.

I think pj is fine. He got all of those ridiculous posts off his chest last night. All 25 of them....
RE: RE: No, the report doesn't identify Beltran as the ringleader  
figgy2989 : 1/14/2020 9:20 am : link
In comment 14778310 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
In comment 14778307 Greg from LI said:


Quote:


But it's fair to wonder why he's the only player named in the report.



Maybe because he's the only one who is no longer a player and is now a manager.


Ding Ding...Beltran is no longer a player, so no longer part of the players union. If you think Beltran was the only "player" involved, I have a bridge to sell you.
RE: pjcas  
pjcas18 : 1/14/2020 9:22 am : link
In comment 14778346 Bill2 said:
Quote:
Wasn't Beltran a New York Yankee?

Wasn't he also recruited as a coach and perhaps manager for them? Wasn't he also a special advisor to Cashman?

Didn't he play for SEVEN baseball teams?

So why is criticism of a Houston Astro, Texas Ranger, New York Yankee, Kansas City Royal, San Francisco Giant, and St Louis Cardinal going after the Mets or Mets fans???

He played 3 years for the Mets and signed a 3 year deal with the Yankees?

Is it possible that comments about Beltran are actually about Beltran and not about your feelings?

Are you ok?


Yeah, that's probably it Bill. Thanks for checking in on me.

I'll get over this. Somehow. Someway. I know I can.

I think one move MLB should make is..  
BillKo : 1/14/2020 9:24 am : link
...to cut off all devices (TVs/cell phones/etc) during games in the dugout or clubhouse, other than the bullpen phone.
who said he was the only player involved?  
Greg from LI : 1/14/2020 9:30 am : link
You guys are just hearing voices in your heads now.
RE: pjcas  
Metnut : 1/14/2020 9:32 am : link
In comment 14778346 Bill2 said:
Quote:
Wasn't Beltran a New York Yankee?

Wasn't he also recruited as a coach and perhaps manager for them? Wasn't he also a special advisor to Cashman?

Didn't he play for SEVEN baseball teams?

So why is criticism of a Houston Astro, Texas Ranger, New York Yankee, Kansas City Royal, San Francisco Giant, and St Louis Cardinal going after the Mets or Mets fans???

He played 3 years for the Mets and signed a 3 year deal with the Yankees?

Is it possible that comments about Beltran are actually about Beltran and not about your feelings?

Are you ok?


The comments specifically referenced the Mets, not only Beltran. Since this isn't a Yankee thread, I'm not sure why Yankee fans would be surprised to see Mets fans respond and bring up the fine the Yankees received in 2017 from MLB for illegal use of technology. I can't recall the Mets facing similar discipline from MLB, but if i'm mistaken, please correct me.

All in good fun anyway! People take this stuff too seriously sometimes.
"The lady doth protest too much, methinks"  
Drewcon40 : 1/14/2020 9:34 am : link
the irony is some of these posts is too much. These have to be tongue in cheek.
lastly, imo  
Bill2 : 1/14/2020 9:35 am : link
Fixing games is the clear biggest violation in baseball

Gambling on games is the second biggest violation in baseball

Associating with gamblers is third ( Remember Bowie Kuhn banning Mays and Mantle after they retired for signing autographs at an even in a casino? talk about overreaction. Both were reinstated a few years later).

Violating the DV and illegal substance policy more than one time after said substances were declared illegal is next

Stealing signs in this manner is next.

So guys who took steroids before the policy...not so much

Guys who took greenies before the policy ...not so much

Guys who drank even on days they pitched...not so much

Guys who played badly hung over...not so much

Guys who preyed on young women ( Forget the name of the Yankee I think Luis P something in the 80's)

Guys who cheated on their wives...not so much.

Guys who swapped wives ( again Yankees) ...not so much

Guys who annoyed Yogi Berra on the bus and never played again...not so much

Great great great players who were womanizers and overt racists...not so much

But if we keep going maybe we will eventually find a "pure" franchise.

My point is that this is in the past and off field character is not a reflection or comment on any teams fans.

All manner of players and managers played and managed.

All manner of nuns and cardinals and rabbis rooted for those teams

Luis..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 1/14/2020 9:36 am : link
Polonia!

And also Chad Curtis.
Yes  
Bill2 : 1/14/2020 9:40 am : link
Thanks FMIC

(note the Yankees seem to have cornered the market on sex crimes and spousal cheating)

Somehow I never thought that was about me. Or the Yankees. Or Baseball. Or the Mets.

I thought somehow it was about them.

RE: Luis..  
Greg from LI : 1/14/2020 9:42 am : link
In comment 14778407 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
Polonia!

And also Chad Curtis.


Mel Hall.....I knew a girl from Connecticut in college whose father was a lawyer or something and had a high-level connection to the Yankees. She was a big fan of the team and, because of her dad, used to go to all kinds of team functions in the early '90s when she was in high school. She told me that Mel Hall was the creepiest asshole she'd ever been around, constantly trying to hug her and put his arm around her waist.

She told me these stories around 1996-97. A decade later, he went to prison for sexually assaulting teenaged girls.
Metnut  
Bill2 : 1/14/2020 9:48 am : link
I didn't read the whole thread and who attempted to link stuff that went on in Houston with a guy who the Mets and Yankees hired and wanted to keep hiring.

for me, none of this is a comment on Met or Yankee fans. its about Beltran

There is a greater concern that I have...general cynicism and fan disinterest whenever scale cheating is revealed about any sport. After all, all these sports try to take a large chunk of peoples discretionary income in a time when there are lots of possible alternative claims on time and income.

Id bet that if the entertainment value of juicing baseball during the regular season was going to be faded away so the game was "more traditional"...it isn't now.

imo
Mel Hall  
Bill2 : 1/14/2020 9:56 am : link
first played for the Chicago Cubs, Cleveland Indians and the Toronto Blue Jays.

So obviously, Greg has just slammed the entire Great Lakes Area...and cities on its tributaries. And fans of the entire Mississippi, Missouri, St Lawrence and Ohio River Basins.

And he played for the SF Giants. But we all knew California was irredeemable to begin with

RE: Beltran  
shyster : 1/14/2020 9:57 am : link
In comment 14778321 Drewcon40 said:
Quote:
was hired by the Mets AFTER all of this mess.



Beltran was hired by Mets on November 1. The sign stealing story did not break until November 12, when the Athletic published Mike Fiers' allegations.

Even if the Mets wanted to get out of their contract with Beltran, it's not obvious that they could do so without owing him a lot of money. Otherwise, as a bottom line, it would mean punishing him for what he did as a player, which MLB has declined to do.

When Beltran was hired, and nobody knew what was coming, SNY ran an article about his "feel for the game", with praise from Alex Cora, that makes for quite a read now:

Quote:
In recent years, an image of Beltran as a baseball savant has emerged around the game, especially in the influence he had on the Houston Astros' 2017 championship team, when he was credited for picking up the way Yu Darvish was tipping pitches in that postseason.

During the Yankees-Astros ALCS that same October, then-Houston bench coach Alex Cora, who would go on to win a championship as a rookie manager with the Red Sox, told me he fully expected Beltran to be a great manager someday.

"Nobody sees more when they're watching a baseball game than Carlos," Cora said then. "I feel like I know the game very well but I can always learn something sitting with him during a game."



Carlos the savant - ( New Window )
RE: Metnut  
bigbluehoya : 1/14/2020 10:02 am : link
In comment 14778432 Bill2 said:
Quote:
I didn't read the whole thread and who attempted to link stuff that went on in Houston with a guy who the Mets and Yankees hired and wanted to keep hiring.

for me, none of this is a comment on Met or Yankee fans. its about Beltran

There is a greater concern that I have...general cynicism and fan disinterest whenever scale cheating is revealed about any sport. After all, all these sports try to take a large chunk of peoples discretionary income in a time when there are lots of possible alternative claims on time and income.

Id bet that if the entertainment value of juicing baseball during the regular season was going to be faded away so the game was "more traditional"...it isn't now.

imo


maybe I'm unique, but there's something about the in-game fuckery and secret use of externalities to screw over ones opponent that puts this particular scandal on a different level for me.

I've just always been that way, down to playing board games with my friends as a kid. As soon as there's fuckery, I want it eliminated immediately and I'm not really interested in playing again until I have some assurance that it's been addressed.
RE: RE: Beltran  
Drewcon40 : 1/14/2020 10:03 am : link
In comment 14778455 shyster said:
Quote:

When Beltran was hired, and nobody knew what was coming, SNY ran an article about his "feel for the game", with praise from Alex Cora, that makes for quite a read now:


Thanks shyster - I think Bill2 has articulated very well what I believe.
.  
Bill2 : 1/14/2020 10:06 am : link
Fully agree

I don't know why but stealing signs when an opponent is on second or from the dugout like John McGraw or Leo Durocher did ...somehow that's clever and within the game as I always understood it. At most it influences an at bat or two

This is a more systemic perversion and can alter a whole season

imo
I was pretty content with the punishment...  
Dunedin81 : 1/14/2020 3:25 pm : link
especially if Crane succeeds in invalidating the contracts of Hinch and Luhnow and doesn't pay them. That, more than anything else, will be the cautionary tale. Elite GMs make a couple million a year (Cash at $5 and Friedman at $7 per were the highest paid as of a couple years ago - Luhnow made $1.2 in 2018) but if they get banned their earnings potential goes down dramatically. Luhnow may not work again (Hinch is generally well-liked and should get another chance to do something) and may struggle to find comparable compensation doing something else. That's the point where pressure is the easiest to apply.
If  
DanMetroMan : 1/14/2020 3:29 pm : link
Brodie sticks around it's safe to guess at worst Hinch will be offered an organizational role within the Mets organization. In no way am I defending Hinch but almost everyone thinks he's a decent guy. I doubt he's done.
RE: If  
Dunedin81 : 1/14/2020 3:41 pm : link
In comment 14779009 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
Brodie sticks around it's safe to guess at worst Hinch will be offered an organizational role within the Mets organization. In no way am I defending Hinch but almost everyone thinks he's a decent guy. I doubt he's done.


He came across as a smug douchebag in the interviews regarding this before the scandal broke. That's the worst thing I can say about the guy.
Mark your calendars  
Mad Mike : 1/14/2020 4:51 pm : link
Quote:
The Staten Island Yankees announced Tuesday on Twitter that they will give away mini trash cans to the first 500 fans that attend their Sept. 3 game against the [Houston affiliate] Tri-City Valley Cats.



lonk - ( New Window )
Alex Cored fired.  
bceagle05 : 1/14/2020 7:30 pm : link
Good riddance you fucking clown.
*Cora  
bceagle05 : 1/14/2020 7:30 pm : link
.
RE: Alex Cored fired.  
BigBlueShock : 1/14/2020 7:33 pm : link
In comment 14779419 bceagle05 said:
Quote:
Good riddance you fucking clown.

Uh oh. Has anyone checked on prdave lately? I sure hope his grandma took away all the sheets and sharp objects from her basement. smh.
Your move, Mets.  
bceagle05 : 1/14/2020 7:38 pm : link
.
Start new thread for that.  
Mike from SI : 1/14/2020 7:39 pm : link
Someone please.
With the very harsh punishments handed out  
micky : 1/14/2020 7:49 pm : link
I don't know how Beltran goes unscathed in all this?
I'm a Met fan  
Rolyrock : 1/15/2020 9:10 am : link
I hate Beltran. He couldn't win without cheating. The Mets are a sorry rip off fans organization. They wasted Reyes and Wright and now their going to waste Thor and Degrom. Thank God I'm a fan of big blue. Beltran sour puss loser. Had to vent.
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