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Jeff Passan @JeffPassan 1m BREAKING: Houston Astros GM Jeff Luhnow and manager AJ Hinch have been suspended for one year after an MLB investigation found the team used technology to cheat during its World Series-winning 2017 season, sources familiar with the punishment tell ESPN. |
Jeff Passan
@JeffPassan
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Additionally, MLB will fine the Astros $5 million and take away their first- and second-round picks in the 2020 and 2021 drafts, sources tell ESPN.
What did you want? To put them in front of a firing squad?
But unfortunately it is just really a diversion by MLB.
Makes everyone think the Astros were the only ones doing something like this.
The investigation was a sham and MLB is just trying to avoid further scrutinty by outing other teams.
Jeff Passan
@JeffPassan
54s
No players were disciplined by Major League Baseball in the Astros' investigation. While Mets manager Carlos Beltran was part of it, he was a player at the time and thus was not suspended.
Discipline for Red Sox manager Alex Cora is coming. It is going to be harsh, per sources.
But unfortunately it is just really a diversion by MLB.
Makes everyone think the Astros were the only ones doing something like this.
The investigation was a sham and MLB is just trying to avoid further scrutinty by outing other teams.
What other teams have been implicated, outside of the Sox and Cora (who's punishment is coming)?
Steals signs when guys are on base and can see the C? Sure
Steals signs using cameras and tech?
Were there other offenders? Probably, but likely no where close to this extent.
I basically thought no "multiple life time bans" like many people on here were suggesting.
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Just one year. Manfred blew it
What did you want? To put them in front of a firing squad?
I mean the tradeoff was 3 great years supported by cheating for 1 lost year, 5 mil, and 4 picks. Hinch and Luchnow will be back too
Yeah that's a pretty significant punishment and more than what I thought was going to happen.
Here's hoping Cora gets it good too.
+1
Don't agree with the draft picks. Why hurt the fans?
But unfortunately it is just really a diversion by MLB.
Makes everyone think the Astros were the only ones doing something like this.
The investigation was a sham and MLB is just trying to avoid further scrutinty by outing other teams.
Reports have indicated that the Astros and Red Sox were the only teams that continued these tactics after the MLB specifically reached out to clubs telling them to stop...
Don't agree with the draft picks. Why hurt the fans?
ANY punishment hurts the fans. you dont think losing hinch for a year hurts the teams chances ?
The fans are unfortunately collateral damage when their favorite team cheats
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in MLB steals signs - but I don't think that any other teams went to the extent that the Astros and Red Sox went to in order to steal them.
Steals signs when guys are on base and can see the C? Sure
Steals signs using cameras and tech?
I"m saying the use of cameras and tech is way beyond the line.
I think lots of teams steal signs - like the method you mentioned. Another one is (even though it's an unwritten rule) picking up signs delivered by the dugout or by the 3rd base coach during the course of a game.
I always thought this was an empty punishment. I mean everyone knows that Louisville won the national title in 2013. You can't just "undo" it.
If it's with pay it's not harsh enough imo.
ANY punishment hurts the fans. you dont think losing hinch for a year hurts the teams chances ?
The fans are unfortunately collateral damage when their favorite team cheats
Yes, I do think losing Hinch is a big loss. But back to back years taking away first and second round picks is a big hit to the the farm system. Maybe one year - sure. But two years is heavy. Kick Hinch out for two years instead...
Whatever, glad MLB decided to send a signal - the rules are not meant to be violated.
Don't agree with the draft picks. Why hurt the fans?
Technically,didnt the fans of the losing teams fans get hurt?
If they dont cheat maybe they lose.
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ANY punishment hurts the fans. you dont think losing hinch for a year hurts the teams chances ?
The fans are unfortunately collateral damage when their favorite team cheats
Yes, I do think losing Hinch is a big loss. But back to back years taking away first and second round picks is a big hit to the the farm system. Maybe one year - sure. But two years is heavy. Kick Hinch out for two years instead...
hurts the farm system...hurts the franchise. AS IT SHOULD. they cheated. the fans are the lowest and last level of "hurt" in this scenario. the franchise DESERVES a strict punishment. maybe they lose if they dont cheat....are the fans happy then? they have a championship that wont be taken away, the fans are fine. it was necessary to punish the franchise though
same thoughts. not enough punishment to disincentivize. like when a company is fined $5 billion on a move that made them $25 billion.
Don't agree with the draft picks. Why hurt the fans?
the astros are the one who hurt the fans with their behavior. they hurt their own fans and fans of every other team in the rest of the league. this is how punishment works.
Which again begs the question of why Lucknow and Hinch only got 1 year, messing with the integrity of the game for multiple years.
If true, this makes absolutely no sense
Teams have been stealing signs on the field for 100 years. These assholes used technology and on top were arrogant about it. And it was done with Managemnt knowing about it an allowing it to continue. Fuck them
That has to be looked at as worse as what the Astros did I would think, although a case can be made that some Astros guys had been warned before too.
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Multiple reports that Cora punishment coming and it will be "far longer" than Hinch's one year.
If true, this makes absolutely no sense
Can only assume Cora had an active role while Hinch knowingly turned a blind eye if its true
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In comment 14776883 BleedBlue said:
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ANY punishment hurts the fans. you dont think losing hinch for a year hurts the teams chances ?
The fans are unfortunately collateral damage when their favorite team cheats
Yes, I do think losing Hinch is a big loss. But back to back years taking away first and second round picks is a big hit to the the farm system. Maybe one year - sure. But two years is heavy. Kick Hinch out for two years instead...
hurts the farm system...hurts the franchise. AS IT SHOULD. they cheated. the fans are the lowest and last level of "hurt" in this scenario. the franchise DESERVES a strict punishment. maybe they lose if they dont cheat....are the fans happy then? they have a championship that wont be taken away, the fans are fine. it was necessary to punish the franchise though
Take away the trophy plus the marketing rights plus put a big asterisk next to the World Series records for that year. They slapped it on Maris HR record which was clean for decades because of games played, so do it for cheating
Dont forget the key card
Is it just timing that that's also being announced today, or was he implicated in this as well? Before seeing that, I'd been thinking that if he'd only not been such a jackass, he might have fallen into a lot of responsibility this year.
Maybe it is because it was the Sox, and they basically flipped off the league and their warning?
Suspending Hinch is hardly a punishment
Gerrit Cole
warning - but it was very ambiguous, the official rules went into effect in March of 2019.
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Multiple reports that Cora punishment coming and it will be "far longer" than Hinch's one year.
If true, this makes absolutely no sense
The reports that are coming out suggest Hinch didn't know about it, or atleast didn't know about it being this aggressive (I call bullshit, but lets just go with that). If that's they case I would imagine that they can prove Cora knew and maybe even orchestrated it and did so during his tenure with both teams.
@molly_knight
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MLB's report said Alex Cora set up the monitors to cheat and AJ Hinch smashed them twice!!! Hinch got a year suspension. Cora's gotta get a longer one, no?
I don't buy that for a millisecond.
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The reports that are coming out suggest Hinch didn't know about it, or atleast didn't know about it being this aggressive
I don't buy that for a millisecond.
I don't either but i think the key here is evidence that Cora was a far bigger offender, i would imagine.
Kay thought because he was a player, the union would fight the punishment.
No, the discipline actually is for what he said in the clubhouse.
Based on his inappropriate conduct in the clubhouse on October 19, 2019, Brandon Taubman shall be ineligible to perform services on behalf of any Major League Club, either as an employee or independent contractor, through the day following the completion of the 2020 World Series, at which time he will be eligible to apply to me for reinstatement. If Taubman is found to engage in any future material violations of the Major League Rules, he will be placed on the permanently ineligible list.
Statement of the Commissioner - ( New Window )
Does hinch still get paid minus the 1 year suspension.
No, they didn't have anything like this. You think evidence wouldn't have already come out if they had?
Truly the heroes we needed
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any owner in the league would happily pay that after a WS win. Draft picks are the only thing that hurts here.
same thoughts. not enough punishment to disincentivize. like when a company is fined $5 billion on a move that made them $25 billion.
Getting a 20% fine isn't harsh? Geez. 1 year for MGR and GM plus draft picks. That is a true pee-pee whacking.
Link - ( New Window )
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on this one. Love the Yanks but how likely is it they didn't have systems of their own in place? Hopefully this will quash the universality of sign-stealing in the future.
No, they didn't have anything like this. You think evidence wouldn't have already come out if they had?
I'm not sure, and I hope they didn't. But I don't think its a good time to gloat, either. I would bet that most teams have had more and less nefarious methods. Hopefully the Yanks win a WS soon because they have fielded the best team, not because HOU or BOS are weakened.
HA HA HA!!
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I mean deep down they know the championship isnt legitimate. Thats gotta be the biggest punishment of all
12:28 PM - 13 Jan 2020
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Replying to @SuuperBlah
I mean deep down they know the championship isnt legitimate. Thats gotta be the biggest punishment of all
12:28 PM - 13 Jan 2020 Link - ( New Window )
Hughes is an awesome interview and follow on Twitter these days. Who knew?
I just read the report, his name is mentioned 1 time. Sounds made up that he was a ring leader.
I'm not naive enough to think he's above this or innocent - all the players knew, but the ring leader is clearly Cora.
This is the only mention of Beltran I see in the entire report:
that's it.
Honestly stealing signs has been a part of baseball since day 1. The Mets who have 2 pitchers that are believed to have been tipping their pitches this past season which resulted in horrible results. Is that stealing? Guys standing on 2nd base watching the catcher and then putting one hand on leg or two to determine speed, location is stealing. Other sports regularly watch game video of their opponent to gain clues. What about scouting a pitcher for tendencies and writing a cheat sheet knowing tendencies in certain counts with certain men on base.
At the end of the day the batter still needs to hit the ball. A guy that can throw 100mph is not easy even with the signs. And I highly doubt Houston and Boston are the only ones doing it.
For the millionth damned time....a baserunner at second trying to decipher signs is one thing. Using a CF video feed hooked up to a high-def video monitor in the dugout tunnel to signal the batter is something else entirely.
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In comment 14776867 2cents said:
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any owner in the league would happily pay that after a WS win. Draft picks are the only thing that hurts here.
same thoughts. not enough punishment to disincentivize. like when a company is fined $5 billion on a move that made them $25 billion.
Getting a 20% fine isn't harsh? Geez. 1 year for MGR and GM plus draft picks. That is a true pee-pee whacking.
right, it isn't harsh enough. enough is the key word. it leaves 80% of the profit. if breaking the law is profitable people will break the law.
(Wonder if he doesn't have to honor their contract for cause).
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Honestly stealing signs has been a part of baseball since day 1.
For the millionth damned time....a baserunner at second trying to decipher signs is one thing. Using a CF video feed hooked up to a high-def video monitor in the dugout tunnel to signal the batter is something else entirely.
And, if you read the report, MLB went out of their way to say that this was illegal. Not a little bit, way out of their way.
I like the suggestion I've seen some places that they keep the title, but they can fly no flags nor make any mention of it in any of their marketing. They have to act as if it never happened.
Yea, the report really didn't say anything of substance about Beltran at all.
One thing I didn't know before reading all of this is that the Yankees and Red Sox were both reprimanded by MLB for electronic sign-stealing in 2017. Wasn't aware of that. No wonder MLB came down so hard on the Astros since there was already a warning issued after the inappropriate conduct by the AL East teams.
Link - ( New Window )
Do you put an asterisk next to steroid abusers names for awards and records they set?
What about teams loaded with steroid users? You can maybe claim steroid use wasn't orchestrated the same way, but it was encouraged or at worse ignored and that wasn't just a home field advantage.
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"ringleader". MLB's report names Beltran ONCE. It's not even clear in the report if Beltran had anything to do with setting it up at all.
Yea, the report really didn't say anything of substance about Beltran at all.
One thing I didn't know before reading all of this is that the Yankees and Red Sox were both reprimanded by MLB for electronic sign-stealing in 2017. Wasn't aware of that. No wonder MLB came down so hard on the Astros since there was already a warning issued after the inappropriate conduct by the AL East teams.
So basically the winningest teams of the past n years all reprimanded for breaking rules.
they should all get asterisks.
it's always seems like it's the 2nd or 3rd biggest cheater who complains loudest about the 1st.
Dave I get the sense you are not the biggest Mets fan? just a hunch.
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In comment 14777053 BigBluesman said:
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on this one. Love the Yanks but how likely is it they didn't have systems of their own in place? Hopefully this will quash the universality of sign-stealing in the future.
No, they didn't have anything like this. You think evidence wouldn't have already come out if they had?
I'm not sure, and I hope they didn't. But I don't think its a good time to gloat, either. I would bet that most teams have had more and less nefarious methods. Hopefully the Yanks win a WS soon because they have fielded the best team, not because HOU or BOS are weakened.
The team cheated to beat you gets caught and u dont gloat? Hey no issue w you not wanting to but I hate cheaters so yes. Im gloating. Screw them
However, other Astros who benefited, even if not from a WS win but in general like say in 2018, from the cheating scandal and have since lied about their knowledge of it, like for example, Gerritt Cole, should be considered for punishment and teams signing them should stay away or risk their own bad looks that people hate to see.
I mean, especially if the organization in question has already been reprimanded for the same offense.
disclaimer - it's January, I am a Mets fan- I know Tex was just having fun with this - I am not claiming the Yankees cheated.
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So wins and losses aren't a benefit? When you have something as orgaization-wide as this they're all cheaters.
If Beltran benefited, then Cole did too.
Beltran's home and road splits were almost identical.
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.
So wins and losses aren't a benefit? When you have something as orgaization-wide as this they're all cheaters.
If Beltran benefited, then Cole did too.
Beltran's home and road splits were almost identical.
i dont understand what youre arguing? that cole is somehow more culpable in this than beltran?
He hit all of the time in Houston, or something.
Houston, Boston, and NY (NL). Just sucks, really.
The right thing was done the punishment is severe. It the Astros in the pocket and on the field. Only things I can think of would be lowering the luxury tax line or playing games with empty stadiums(possibly gimmicky)
Teams likely wont do this again.
The right thing was done the punishment is severe. It the Astros in the pocket and on the field. Only things I can think of would be lowering the luxury tax line or playing games with empty stadiums(possibly gimmicky)
Teams likely wont do this again.
a 5 million dollar fine does not hurt them in the pocket, that is a rounding error for a multi-billion dollar franchise.
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In comment 14777391 Greg from LI said:
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.
So wins and losses aren't a benefit? When you have something as orgaization-wide as this they're all cheaters.
If Beltran benefited, then Cole did too.
Beltran's home and road splits were almost identical.
i dont understand what youre arguing? that cole is somehow more culpable in this than beltran?
Just light heartedly responding to the schadenfreude king Dave in Hoboken.
I think a few on this board feel Beltran should be suspended as well and that he is getting off easy. As a long time Mets fan, I am not used to any bad luck or hard times so the Mets new manager being involved in some MLB controversy would be new territory. I am used to having things fall into place smoothly. I hear some teams have so many issues that their once star outfielder gets injured by wild boars.
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In comment 14777400 pjcas18 said:
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In comment 14777391 Greg from LI said:
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.
So wins and losses aren't a benefit? When you have something as orgaization-wide as this they're all cheaters.
If Beltran benefited, then Cole did too.
Beltran's home and road splits were almost identical.
i dont understand what youre arguing? that cole is somehow more culpable in this than beltran?
Just light heartedly responding to the schadenfreude king Dave in Hoboken.
That actually has a pretty decent ring to it. Thanks.
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In comment 14777400 pjcas18 said:
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In comment 14777391 Greg from LI said:
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.
So wins and losses aren't a benefit? When you have something as orgaization-wide as this they're all cheaters.
If Beltran benefited, then Cole did too.
Beltran's home and road splits were almost identical.
i dont understand what youre arguing? that cole is somehow more culpable in this than beltran?
Just light heartedly responding to the schadenfreude king Dave in Hoboken.
touche. just clarifying, well played.
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Would open up a huge labor fight. I dont think mlb wants any part of it.
The right thing was done the punishment is severe. It the Astros in the pocket and on the field. Only things I can think of would be lowering the luxury tax line or playing games with empty stadiums(possibly gimmicky)
Teams likely wont do this again.
a 5 million dollar fine does not hurt them in the pocket, that is a rounding error for a multi-billion dollar franchise.
That was the max they could fine without having to go to court.
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In comment 14777409 Joey from GlenCove said:
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Would open up a huge labor fight. I dont think mlb wants any part of it.
The right thing was done the punishment is severe. It the Astros in the pocket and on the field. Only things I can think of would be lowering the luxury tax line or playing games with empty stadiums(possibly gimmicky)
Teams likely wont do this again.
a 5 million dollar fine does not hurt them in the pocket, that is a rounding error for a multi-billion dollar franchise.
That was the max they could fine without having to go to court.
that very well may be the case, point still stand that it has zero impact on organizational finances.
One thing I didn't know before reading all of this is that the Yankees and Red Sox were both reprimanded by MLB for electronic sign-stealing in 2017.
That's not what happened.
The Red Sox were fined for sign stealing.
The Yankees were fined a lesser amount for use of the dugout phone beyond the circumstance where you are allowed to use the phone.
The MLB report affirmatively stated that the substance of the communication that occurred on the dugout phone was not sign stealing or any other rule violation.
The MLB report did not disclose the amount of the fine against the Yankees but said it would be donated to hurricane relief efforts. The same comment was not made about the Red Sox fine.
usatoday 9/15/17 - ( New Window )
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One thing I didn't know before reading all of this is that the Yankees and Red Sox were both reprimanded by MLB for electronic sign-stealing in 2017.
That's not what happened.
The Red Sox were fined for sign stealing.
The Yankees were fined a lesser amount for use of the dugout phone beyond the circumstance where you are allowed to use the phone.
The MLB report affirmatively stated that the substance of the communication that occurred on the dugout phone was not sign stealing or any other rule violation.
The MLB report did not disclose the amount of the fine against the Yankees but said it would be donated to hurricane relief efforts. The same comment was not made about the Red Sox fine. usatoday 9/15/17 - ( New Window )
So the Yankees were fined by MLB for illegally using tech (phones) to communicate during games? Yikes.
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One thing I didn't know before reading all of this is that the Yankees and Red Sox were both reprimanded by MLB for electronic sign-stealing in 2017.
That's not what happened.
The Red Sox were fined for sign stealing.
The Yankees were fined a lesser amount for use of the dugout phone beyond the circumstance where you are allowed to use the phone.
The MLB report affirmatively stated that the substance of the communication that occurred on the dugout phone was not sign stealing or any other rule violation.
The MLB report did not disclose the amount of the fine against the Yankees but said it would be donated to hurricane relief efforts. The same comment was not made about the Red Sox fine. usatoday 9/15/17 - ( New Window )
Thanks for setting the record straight. Sooo glad the Yankees didn't hire a cheater for a manager. Such a horrid look.
So glad I root for the only NY team to win a pennant the past decade and the only one not fined for cheating. Awesome!
Every game (not that it will be many considering it's the Mets) that the Mets win next season will be questioned now. So glad I root for the baseball team in NY that people actually care about and not the Jets of MLB.
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In comment 14777343 Metnut said:
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One thing I didn't know before reading all of this is that the Yankees and Red Sox were both reprimanded by MLB for electronic sign-stealing in 2017.
That's not what happened.
The Red Sox were fined for sign stealing.
The Yankees were fined a lesser amount for use of the dugout phone beyond the circumstance where you are allowed to use the phone.
The MLB report affirmatively stated that the substance of the communication that occurred on the dugout phone was not sign stealing or any other rule violation.
The MLB report did not disclose the amount of the fine against the Yankees but said it would be donated to hurricane relief efforts. The same comment was not made about the Red Sox fine. usatoday 9/15/17 - ( New Window )
Thanks for setting the record straight. Sooo glad the Yankees didn't hire a cheater for a manager. Such a horrid look.
Nope. Just traded for one to play 3rd base. A signed a few to pitch.
Weeeeeeeee
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In comment 14777434 shyster said:
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In comment 14777343 Metnut said:
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One thing I didn't know before reading all of this is that the Yankees and Red Sox were both reprimanded by MLB for electronic sign-stealing in 2017.
That's not what happened.
The Red Sox were fined for sign stealing.
The Yankees were fined a lesser amount for use of the dugout phone beyond the circumstance where you are allowed to use the phone.
The MLB report affirmatively stated that the substance of the communication that occurred on the dugout phone was not sign stealing or any other rule violation.
The MLB report did not disclose the amount of the fine against the Yankees but said it would be donated to hurricane relief efforts. The same comment was not made about the Red Sox fine. usatoday 9/15/17 - ( New Window )
Thanks for setting the record straight. Sooo glad the Yankees didn't hire a cheater for a manager. Such a horrid look.
Nope. Just traded for one to play 3rd base. A signed a few to pitch.
Weeeeeeeee
Yes. I'm sure the Mets never had a roider on their team over the past couple of decades.
Sure thing.
Talk about a bad look, there is no bigger stain on baseball than steroids and Aaron Boone stains baseball more than any other current manager.
Guess whose not on the list? Carlos Beltran.
Besides, maybe half the 103 names who failed the test played for the Yankees at one point.
It's always the cheaters who cry loudest about the cheaters.
Roiders only play for the Yankees, no other team. I'd rather a roider than a manager who did what he did in Houston.
Black eye for Houston, Boston, and Queens on this lovely day.
LOL. Yankees fans are so fragile.
So glad I root for the only NY team to win a pennant the past decade and the only one not fined for cheating. Awesome!
Lmao. Whatever gets you to sleep at night buddy.
Troll act? Oh this is priceless.
Also, if you read the article Carlos Beltran received no discipline, and his name is not implicated in any way.
but...some people are fragile.
It's interesting how Beltran is the only player mentioned in the report.
Mets fans: For them, even when its not about the Yankees, its about the Yankees.
The inferiority complex remains alive and well with them.
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The dugout phone thing wasn't sign stealing.
It's interesting how Beltran is the only player mentioned in the report.
It's also interesting how the Yankees were mentioned in the sign stealing article investigation.
Mets fans: For them, even when its not about the Yankees, its about the Yankees.
The inferiority complex remains alive and well with them.
Yep. And it'll be there forever.
Mets fans: For them, even when its not about the Yankees, its about the Yankees.
The inferiority complex remains alive and well with them.
Inferior of what?
the Mets have been to the WS more recently than the Yankees.
My family and I live in Boston and they consider this place the "City of Champions". They have pity for NY fans it's not even hate any more.
What exactly would Mets fans have to feel inferior about?
History? I'll tell you something, it's fading fast. it's sort of sad watching fans cling to the 90's.
should they feel inferior of a high payroll?
of an archaic facial hair policy?
of the worst radio team in the history of baseball?
of the most concentrated collection of steroid abusers in baseball history?
"the inferiority complex" is projection from fragile fans.
Wow this is hysterical
the irony is thick with this one.
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This is pretty fantastic.
the irony is thick with this one.
Write us another essay.
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In comment 14777556 Dave in Hoboken said:
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This is pretty fantastic.
the irony is thick with this one.
Write us another essay.
because you don't understand my post? lol, google it.
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Give me a fucking break.
Mets fans: For them, even when its not about the Yankees, its about the Yankees.
The inferiority complex remains alive and well with them.
Inferior of what?
the Mets have been to the WS more recently than the Yankees.
My family and I live in Boston and they consider this place the "City of Champions". They have pity for NY fans it's not even hate any more.
What exactly would Mets fans have to feel inferior about?
History? I'll tell you something, it's fading fast. it's sort of sad watching fans cling to the 90's.
should they feel inferior of a high payroll?
of an archaic facial hair policy?
of the worst radio team in the history of baseball?
of the most concentrated collection of steroid abusers in baseball history?
"the inferiority complex" is projection from fragile fans.
Take your meds dude.
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In comment 14777559 pjcas18 said:
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In comment 14777556 Dave in Hoboken said:
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This is pretty fantastic.
the irony is thick with this one.
Write us another essay.
because you don't understand my post? lol, google it.
I'm supposed to care what Boston sports fans think of NY sports teams?
I know you live in NE and whatnot, but not everyone gives a shit about some random fans' opinion on sports teams in another city.
The Red Sox and Pats are BOTH cheating franchise in their most successful time periods. They don't have any room to talk about any teams in any city ever.
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In comment 14777562 Dave in Hoboken said:
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In comment 14777559 pjcas18 said:
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In comment 14777556 Dave in Hoboken said:
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This is pretty fantastic.
the irony is thick with this one.
Write us another essay.
because you don't understand my post? lol, google it.
I'm supposed to care what Boston sports fans think of NY sports teams?
I know you live in NE and whatnot, but not everyone gives a shit about some random fans' opinion on sports teams in another city.
The Red Sox and Pats are BOTH cheating franchise in their most successful time periods. They don't have any room to talk about any teams in any city ever.
nice meltdown take your meds dude.
write another essay.
Third? That might be a bit optimistic.
My thoughts on them being pathetic goes to how so many of them rooted for Division rivals in the Braves and Philies during their World Series in 96,99, and 09 vs the Yanks.
I can understand their not liking the Yanks but how can any real fan root for a Division rival to win? Conversely, I don't know one Yankee fan who rooted for the Sux in 1986. We were all pulling for the Mets.
Logan Morrison is probably still whiny about not getting into the 2017 Home Run Derby
Not too long ago Yankees were subject of similar talks, how about we talk about 09 world series with Arod or we can chat about Clemens.
now go kick rocks
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It's killing people that the Yankees aren't implicated in this scandal. Nope, the shameful participants all reside in Houston, Boston and Queens.
Every game (not that it will be many considering it's the Mets) that the Mets win next season will be questioned now. So glad I root for the baseball team in NY that people actually care about and not the Jets of MLB.
No one will question shit next year.
You're so fucking fragile it's pathetic.
I expect Cora to get at minimum, a year off as well.
I am a bit surprised that Beltran didn't get about
50 games, as a suspension. I guess MLB didn't want to go down that road, of what players to suspend too.
I can see how when a thread tries to get made into a Mets one for no fucking reason.....
Not too long ago Yankees were subject of similar talks, how about we talk about 09 world series with Arod or we can chat about Clemens.
now go kick rocks
Refresh my memory on 2009.
As for Clemens and ARod are you talking about steroids? If so, then you need to talk about 50% of the league.
I just dont understand why this has to be a Yankee hater met fan thread. It is very Jet esque... any victory they have has to come with a fuck you Yankees whereas when the Yankees win something the absolute last thing on their fans minds is the Mets. Oh well.
Ron from Ninerland : 1/13/2020 3:00 pm : link : reply
According to reports Cora and Beltran were the ringleaders. You'd think that Beltran would at least get a fine. Maybe they figure that managing the Mets is punishment enough.
As a Yankee fan I say fuck you to the Astros and the Sox and I hope the Yankees arent involved. So far so good.
Every one of them knew this was happening.
No players were punished. In any way.
And nowhere did i read Beltran was a ringleader. His name was mentioned in the MLB investigation report one time - that's it - and it's mentioned matter of factly, and nowhere did it say his role was any more than any other player.
Cora is a different story.
And he was a Yankee advisor last year so who knows what he did there, but this from the report:
Approximately two months into the 2017 season, a group of players, including Carlos Beltran, discussed that the team could improve on decoding opposing teams signs and communicating the signs to the batter, the report stated. [Then Houston bench coach Alex] Cora arranged for a video room technician to install a monitor displaying the center field camera feed immediately outside of the Astros dugout. (The center field camera was primarily used for player development purposes and was allowed under MLB rules at the time when used for that purpose.)
I isolated it for you. And who cares, these internet battles happen a hundred times a day. Probably more.
I have no issue with the lame joke in that post either. People think it's funny to take shots at the Mets (and then claim when Mets fans respond it's because they have an "inferiority complex" - lol - whatever) - it's the lying about Beltran that I replied to. And it's not that I care about that either, but it was made up, so I felt the need to correct it.
I expect you would understand that.
Maybe because he's the only one who is no longer a player and is now a manager.
Beltran was an employee of the Yankees last year in a role that wouldn't have any impact in cheating.
The Yankees have a gripe because they are contenders (not ashamed to admit it) and the cheating may have prevented them from their higher goals.
But some trolls always have to take shots at the Mets for some unknown reason.
Shit just got real.
Once all punishments are doled out, I'd be in favor of the commissioner issuing one final warning that from here out, players, coaches, GMs, etc are all fair game. And that it will include the cheaters as well as anyone for whom there is evidence that they knew of the cheating and did nothing to stop it or whistleblow.
Separate/final thought - the false equivalency of the current cheating scandal to steroids is about as weak and lazy as it gets.
Quote:
But it's fair to wonder why he's the only player named in the report.
Maybe because he's the only one who is no longer a player and is now a manager.
It's pretty obvious that Mets fans did nothing on this thread other than respond to accusations that Beltran was somehow a "ringleader" in all of this.
Whatever Beltran's involvement in this was, there was responsibility at the level and two levels above him or any other player, to shut it down. Which is why those two individuals are now both suspended and unemployed.
If MLB wants to issue a public warning to the Mets and/or Beltran since he's now in a managerial role? Fine.
Most of the other shit posted above from Yankees fans is just the usual impulse to knock the Mets and then turn any defense of the Mets into an obsession with the Yankees.
Typical.
Wasn't he also recruited as a coach and perhaps manager for them? Wasn't he also a special advisor to Cashman?
Didn't he play for SEVEN baseball teams?
So why is criticism of a Houston Astro, Texas Ranger, New York Yankee, Kansas City Royal, San Francisco Giant, and St Louis Cardinal going after the Mets or Mets fans???
He played 3 years for the Mets and signed a 3 year deal with the Yankees?
Is it possible that comments about Beltran are actually about Beltran and not about your feelings?
Are you ok?
I think pj is fine. He got all of those ridiculous posts off his chest last night. All 25 of them....
Quote:
But it's fair to wonder why he's the only player named in the report.
Maybe because he's the only one who is no longer a player and is now a manager.
Ding Ding...Beltran is no longer a player, so no longer part of the players union. If you think Beltran was the only "player" involved, I have a bridge to sell you.
Wasn't he also recruited as a coach and perhaps manager for them? Wasn't he also a special advisor to Cashman?
Didn't he play for SEVEN baseball teams?
So why is criticism of a Houston Astro, Texas Ranger, New York Yankee, Kansas City Royal, San Francisco Giant, and St Louis Cardinal going after the Mets or Mets fans???
He played 3 years for the Mets and signed a 3 year deal with the Yankees?
Is it possible that comments about Beltran are actually about Beltran and not about your feelings?
Are you ok?
Yeah, that's probably it Bill. Thanks for checking in on me.
I'll get over this. Somehow. Someway. I know I can.
Wasn't he also recruited as a coach and perhaps manager for them? Wasn't he also a special advisor to Cashman?
Didn't he play for SEVEN baseball teams?
So why is criticism of a Houston Astro, Texas Ranger, New York Yankee, Kansas City Royal, San Francisco Giant, and St Louis Cardinal going after the Mets or Mets fans???
He played 3 years for the Mets and signed a 3 year deal with the Yankees?
Is it possible that comments about Beltran are actually about Beltran and not about your feelings?
Are you ok?
The comments specifically referenced the Mets, not only Beltran. Since this isn't a Yankee thread, I'm not sure why Yankee fans would be surprised to see Mets fans respond and bring up the fine the Yankees received in 2017 from MLB for illegal use of technology. I can't recall the Mets facing similar discipline from MLB, but if i'm mistaken, please correct me.
All in good fun anyway! People take this stuff too seriously sometimes.
Gambling on games is the second biggest violation in baseball
Associating with gamblers is third ( Remember Bowie Kuhn banning Mays and Mantle after they retired for signing autographs at an even in a casino? talk about overreaction. Both were reinstated a few years later).
Violating the DV and illegal substance policy more than one time after said substances were declared illegal is next
Stealing signs in this manner is next.
So guys who took steroids before the policy...not so much
Guys who took greenies before the policy ...not so much
Guys who drank even on days they pitched...not so much
Guys who played badly hung over...not so much
Guys who preyed on young women ( Forget the name of the Yankee I think Luis P something in the 80's)
Guys who cheated on their wives...not so much.
Guys who swapped wives ( again Yankees) ...not so much
Guys who annoyed Yogi Berra on the bus and never played again...not so much
Great great great players who were womanizers and overt racists...not so much
But if we keep going maybe we will eventually find a "pure" franchise.
My point is that this is in the past and off field character is not a reflection or comment on any teams fans.
All manner of players and managers played and managed.
All manner of nuns and cardinals and rabbis rooted for those teams
And also Chad Curtis.
(note the Yankees seem to have cornered the market on sex crimes and spousal cheating)
Somehow I never thought that was about me. Or the Yankees. Or Baseball. Or the Mets.
I thought somehow it was about them.
And also Chad Curtis.
Mel Hall.....I knew a girl from Connecticut in college whose father was a lawyer or something and had a high-level connection to the Yankees. She was a big fan of the team and, because of her dad, used to go to all kinds of team functions in the early '90s when she was in high school. She told me that Mel Hall was the creepiest asshole she'd ever been around, constantly trying to hug her and put his arm around her waist.
She told me these stories around 1996-97. A decade later, he went to prison for sexually assaulting teenaged girls.
for me, none of this is a comment on Met or Yankee fans. its about Beltran
There is a greater concern that I have...general cynicism and fan disinterest whenever scale cheating is revealed about any sport. After all, all these sports try to take a large chunk of peoples discretionary income in a time when there are lots of possible alternative claims on time and income.
Id bet that if the entertainment value of juicing baseball during the regular season was going to be faded away so the game was "more traditional"...it isn't now.
imo
So obviously, Greg has just slammed the entire Great Lakes Area...and cities on its tributaries. And fans of the entire Mississippi, Missouri, St Lawrence and Ohio River Basins.
And he played for the SF Giants. But we all knew California was irredeemable to begin with
Beltran was hired by Mets on November 1. The sign stealing story did not break until November 12, when the Athletic published Mike Fiers' allegations.
Even if the Mets wanted to get out of their contract with Beltran, it's not obvious that they could do so without owing him a lot of money. Otherwise, as a bottom line, it would mean punishing him for what he did as a player, which MLB has declined to do.
When Beltran was hired, and nobody knew what was coming, SNY ran an article about his "feel for the game", with praise from Alex Cora, that makes for quite a read now:
During the Yankees-Astros ALCS that same October, then-Houston bench coach Alex Cora, who would go on to win a championship as a rookie manager with the Red Sox, told me he fully expected Beltran to be a great manager someday.
"Nobody sees more when they're watching a baseball game than Carlos," Cora said then. "I feel like I know the game very well but I can always learn something sitting with him during a game."
Carlos the savant - ( New Window )
for me, none of this is a comment on Met or Yankee fans. its about Beltran
There is a greater concern that I have...general cynicism and fan disinterest whenever scale cheating is revealed about any sport. After all, all these sports try to take a large chunk of peoples discretionary income in a time when there are lots of possible alternative claims on time and income.
Id bet that if the entertainment value of juicing baseball during the regular season was going to be faded away so the game was "more traditional"...it isn't now.
imo
maybe I'm unique, but there's something about the in-game fuckery and secret use of externalities to screw over ones opponent that puts this particular scandal on a different level for me.
I've just always been that way, down to playing board games with my friends as a kid. As soon as there's fuckery, I want it eliminated immediately and I'm not really interested in playing again until I have some assurance that it's been addressed.
When Beltran was hired, and nobody knew what was coming, SNY ran an article about his "feel for the game", with praise from Alex Cora, that makes for quite a read now:
Thanks shyster - I think Bill2 has articulated very well what I believe.
I don't know why but stealing signs when an opponent is on second or from the dugout like John McGraw or Leo Durocher did ...somehow that's clever and within the game as I always understood it. At most it influences an at bat or two
This is a more systemic perversion and can alter a whole season
imo
He came across as a smug douchebag in the interviews regarding this before the scandal broke. That's the worst thing I can say about the guy.
lonk - ( New Window )
Uh oh. Has anyone checked on prdave lately? I sure hope his grandma took away all the sheets and sharp objects from her basement. smh.