Isaiah Simmons tonight

On the defense that Judge talks about

as a prospect. Which would be disappointing. If he's as good as Devin Bush I would settle for that, although it would be nice if we could get him after trading down to the Chargers or Jaguars.

Although we could trade down with the Jags as well I suppose.

and he would be ideal for our defense. You just have to know how to use him and his strengths. He can literally be everywhere. I'm intrigued. If they don't believe in one of the OT at 4 or trade down, this seems like a great pick.

Ive seen him play the run adequately and at times pretty poorly.

That he's a jack of all trades, master of none player?

What's his outstanding skill?

In comment 14777520 j_rud said:

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Ive seen him play the run adequately and at times pretty poorly.

He's a very good tackler and has sideline to sideline speed. He has some difficulty with blocks from big o-line. However strength is one thing which he can increase over time.

In comment 14777522 armstead98 said:

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That he's a jack of all trades, master of none player? What's his outstanding skill?

There's a risk for every player in the draft. It's not a negative that he can do everything.

In comment 14777522 armstead98 said:

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That he's a jack of all trades, master of none player? What's his outstanding skill?

Definitely the right question to ask.

But on pure athletic ability, speed and length, which are exceptional for his size, he's very intriguing...

If we still had Betcher then I'd be worried about not using him properly but with Judge at the helm, I think he's exactly the type of player he wants.

Versatile, fast, instinctive and coachable. He'd be in great hands under Judge and there's no doubt he'd be put in the best possible position to take advantage of all he does.

In comment 14777520 j_rud said:

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Ive seen him play the run adequately and at times pretty poorly.

That’s my concern too. Going to watch for how well he sheds.

In comment 14777550 V.I.G. said:

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In comment 14777520 j_rud said: Quote: Ive seen him play the run adequately and at times pretty poorly. That’s my concern too. Going to watch for how well he sheds.

Are there any LBs who've come out of college that didn't have this concern? I feel like it's a constant negative for the top LBs entering the draft.

I just looked up Kuechly, Willis, Bowman, Rolando McClain & Bobby Wagner. It was a negative for all of them according to one of the top 2 scouting reports on Google.

had a great rookie season. Arguably more impressive than Bush. In 13 games he had 91 total tackles, 3 FF, 2.5 sacks, 2 TD, 1 INT. If Simmons is near his talent level, that’s a good investment.

1. Burrow
2. Chase
3. Simmons
4. ?

IMO Simmons should and will be in play at 4. His athletic talents alone warrant the selection but the dude can absolutely ball. Incredible burst and length to cover sideline to sideline. His pursuit and quickness to the ball and ability to diagnose is rare.

Is he the biggest dude out there? No. But if Judge wants tough players who have the ability to basically play anywhere on the field, this is the guy. And his effort and toughness is legit.

In comment 14777583 5BowlsSoon said:

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1. Burrow 2. Chase 3. Simmons 4. ?

4. Okuhda

Simmons is not a the type of player that takes on blocks forcefully
He is long and lanky
It is hard for him to gain leverage and get low
But he is so flexible that he able to split blocks and lay out
He has great form tackling and is a strong sure tackler

I am trying to think of a comparable player but his size and skills are unique
He is much larger than the Devins and he is not as stout as Urlacher

But will watch him intently.

In comment 14777522 armstead98 said:

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That he's a jack of all trades, master of none player? What's his outstanding skill?

there are risks with every player but the risk you state is not one with him. he's outstandingly skilled at multiple things.

range, tackling, explosion, and anticipation - amongst others, are outstanding - in terms of football skills.

combine that with his physical skills and he's a matchup and defense disguise nightmare.

"master of none" is not a description that fits him.

whether he grades out as a #4 overall or a #10 or a #15 is a different question. but to suggest he's not a supremely gifted and productive football player is silly.

In comment 14777576 ryanmkeane said:

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had a great rookie season. Arguably more impressive than Bush. In 13 games he had 91 total tackles, 3 FF, 2.5 sacks, 2 TD, 1 INT. If Simmons is near his talent level, that’s a good investment.

I don't think he's in the same tier as Devin White, which is why I'm hesitant to take him at #4 while White went at #5. I know it's all about "getting your guy" in the draft and all that but still we have to consider value. Would be ideal if we could trade down to a QB-needy team and get a nice return before taking Simmons in the back half of the top 10 so as to maximize our draft position.

In comment 14777583 5BowlsSoon said:

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1. Burrow 2. Chase 3. Simmons 4. ?

I would actually hope that happens because that means we end up with Okudah at #4, who would be an incredibly valuable get and perfect value at #4. That said, I'm putting my money on Detroit taking Okudah at #3 and we'll be left to pick from the "leftovers". Young and Okudah, in my mind, are the only two A+ prospects in this draft (with Young having the slight edge over Okudah as top prospect). Derrick Brown (DT) and possibly Jeudy (WR) could arguably be considered in that tier as well--their positions are just slightly less valuable--but Simmons I don't see as being in that same tier unfortunately.

In comment 14777610 Leg of Theismann said:

Quote:

In comment 14777576 ryanmkeane said: Quote: had a great rookie season. Arguably more impressive than Bush. In 13 games he had 91 total tackles, 3 FF, 2.5 sacks, 2 TD, 1 INT. If Simmons is near his talent level, that’s a good investment. I don't think he's in the same tier as Devin White, which is why I'm hesitant to take him at #4 while White went at #5. I know it's all about "getting your guy" in the draft and all that but still we have to consider value. Would be ideal if we could trade down to a QB-needy team and get a nice return before taking Simmons in the back half of the top 10 so as to maximize our draft position.

Time wil tell but I have a feeling after the Combine he won't be dropping to the back half of the top ten. He's going to be right up there with anyone outside of Young, Burrow and Okaduh.

In comment 14777522 armstead98 said:

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That he's a jack of all trades, master of none player? What's his outstanding skill?

He's a playmaker, game-changer

In comment 14777621 Leg of Theismann said:

Quote:

In comment 14777583 5BowlsSoon said: Quote: 1. Burrow 2. Chase 3. Simmons 4. ? I would actually hope that happens because that means we end up with Okudah at #4, who would be an incredibly valuable get and perfect value at #4. That said, I'm putting my money on Detroit taking Okudah at #3 and we'll be left to pick from the "leftovers". Young and Okudah, in my mind, are the only two A+ prospects in this draft (with Young having the slight edge over Okudah as top prospect). Derrick Brown (DT) and possibly Jeudy (WR) could arguably be considered in that tier as well--their positions are just slightly less valuable--but Simmons I don't see as being in that same tier unfortunately.

My biggest fear is Gettleman falling in love with Derrick Brown. He's great, but dline is our deepest and most talented position group.

In comment 14777627 Nine-Tails said:

Quote:

In comment 14777621 Leg of Theismann said: Quote: In comment 14777583 5BowlsSoon said: Quote: 1. Burrow 2. Chase 3. Simmons 4. ? I would actually hope that happens because that means we end up with Okudah at #4, who would be an incredibly valuable get and perfect value at #4. That said, I'm putting my money on Detroit taking Okudah at #3 and we'll be left to pick from the "leftovers". Young and Okudah, in my mind, are the only two A+ prospects in this draft (with Young having the slight edge over Okudah as top prospect). Derrick Brown (DT) and possibly Jeudy (WR) could arguably be considered in that tier as well--their positions are just slightly less valuable--but Simmons I don't see as being in that same tier unfortunately. My biggest fear is Gettleman falling in love with Derrick Brown. He's great, but dline is our deepest and most talented position group.

The d-line is the least of the needs compared to LB, DB and defense and OL and WR on offense.

In comment 14777627 Nine-Tails said:

Quote:

In comment 14777621 Leg of Theismann said: Quote: In comment 14777583 5BowlsSoon said: Quote: 1. Burrow 2. Chase 3. Simmons 4. ? I would actually hope that happens because that means we end up with Okudah at #4, who would be an incredibly valuable get and perfect value at #4. That said, I'm putting my money on Detroit taking Okudah at #3 and we'll be left to pick from the "leftovers". Young and Okudah, in my mind, are the only two A+ prospects in this draft (with Young having the slight edge over Okudah as top prospect). Derrick Brown (DT) and possibly Jeudy (WR) could arguably be considered in that tier as well--their positions are just slightly less valuable--but Simmons I don't see as being in that same tier unfortunately. My biggest fear is Gettleman falling in love with Derrick Brown. He's great, but dline is our deepest and most talented position group.

For the sake of playing devils advocate, the 49ers have spent 4 of their last 5 first round picks on DL. You could also mention the 2nd they dropped on Dee Ford. I dont think anyone would question those decisions.

This is the game that can solidify his overall value near the very top of the draft.

I think he is the goods despite the BBI-worries he is not heavy enough.

As Judge would say - "tell me what he can do, not what he can't..."

In comment 14777627 Nine-Tails said:

Quote:

My biggest fear is Gettleman falling in love with Derrick Brown. He's great, but dline is our deepest and most talented position group.

I've been fighting that same thought. And the more I do, the more I think it's going to happen.

...love it

All over the field already

In comment 14777709 Doug in MA said:

Quote:

...love it

Well a TE anyway.

In comment 14777649 j_rud said:

Quote:

In comment 14777627 Nine-Tails said: Quote: In comment 14777621 Leg of Theismann said: Quote: In comment 14777583 5BowlsSoon said: Quote: 1. Burrow 2. Chase 3. Simmons 4. ? I would actually hope that happens because that means we end up with Okudah at #4, who would be an incredibly valuable get and perfect value at #4. That said, I'm putting my money on Detroit taking Okudah at #3 and we'll be left to pick from the "leftovers". Young and Okudah, in my mind, are the only two A+ prospects in this draft (with Young having the slight edge over Okudah as top prospect). Derrick Brown (DT) and possibly Jeudy (WR) could arguably be considered in that tier as well--their positions are just slightly less valuable--but Simmons I don't see as being in that same tier unfortunately. My biggest fear is Gettleman falling in love with Derrick Brown. He's great, but dline is our deepest and most talented position group. For the sake of playing devils advocate, the 49ers have spent 4 of their last 5 first round picks on DL. You could also mention the 2nd they dropped on Dee Ford. I dont think anyone would question those decisions.

But all those guys have different skill sets. While all our guys and Brown strengths focused on stopping the run and collapsing the pocket

looks unbelievable.

Everything player

draft him

In comment 14777726 Jon in NYC said:

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looks unbelievable.

He is all over the field
He must have cloned himself

to start the game. He's a stud

.

The New York Giants select...

Take this guy. He will transform our defense. As Judge says, tell me what he can do. Everything

@MoveTheSticks This game is a Simmons highlight tape.

Daniel Jeremiah weighing in...

The lions might end up taking him at this point

Seems like a perfect asset for a creative DC like Graham. Yeah, he’s not gonna plug the middle, but has sideline to sideline range.

In comment 14777716 section125 said:

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In comment 14777709 Doug in MA said: Quote: ...love it ...well yeah...in that case he was. Kid was dropped backed as a safety on some plays too last week. Well a TE anyway.

.

In comment 14777753 BestFeature said:

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.

Well then Okudah is available.

In comment 14777753 BestFeature said:

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.

I don't think so. They need DL and corner help.

Is a football player

He's the player I want.

Middle backer next to Connelly?

In comment 14777757 Nine-Tails said:

Quote:

In comment 14777753 BestFeature said: Quote: . Well then Okudah is available.

And Okudah is an elite prospect, a Jalen Ramsey level prospect.

Sign Yannick, assume dline stays intact and Connelly returns. We should have an up and coming defense

...he's the defensive version of Booby Miles.

Okudah/Jeudy/Simmons/trade down

Of his 738 snaps on the season, here’s where Simmons has lined up:

Position Snaps
DL 106
In the box 239
Slot CB 256
Wide CB 7
Deep safety 130

I will do cartwheels if the giants draft him

In comment 14777772 Big Rick in FL said:

Quote:

Of his 738 snaps on the season, here’s where Simmons has lined up: Position Snaps DL 106 In the box 239 Slot CB 256 Wide CB 7 Deep safety 130

matchup and defense disguise nightmare. thanks for posting the state, hadn't seen them

Wanted to use Minkah in a variety of roles, while Minkah wanted to play one position, ultimately leading to his trade. I think Simmons will be the ultimate chess piece Graham wants.

With his impact on defense and specials, he will be the apple of Judge's eyes

to be the guy I would want at #4.

In comment 14777786 section125 said:

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to be the guy I would want at #4.

Me too.

This guy looks like an incredible football player.

Simmons, Ngakoue and Williams. Make it happen!

In comment 14777793 Doug in MA said:

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Simmons, Ngakoue and Williams. Make it happen!

Toss in Conklin and that would be a fantastic offseason.

Might be a little too lean to play linebacker

In comment 14777805 bubba0825 said:

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Might be a little too lean to play linebacker

He could add 5 to 10 pounds without losing too much speed. Put him in a NFL workout program and see what happens. He does have a long frame

In comment 14777805 bubba0825 said:

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Might be a little too lean to play linebacker

He's got good size and is only 21 yrs old. No reason he can't put on some weight if needed and still keep his speed.

both in play and size. He can absolutely be a LBer in the NFL and he’s so damn versatile. Haven’t seen a ton of him this season but he’s been very active so far tonight making atleast 2 plays that altered LSU drives.

There is an incredible amount of NFL talent on the field right now.

I can see why you want him versus someone like Ertz, but he needs to do a better job disengaging

In comment 14777831 Jim from Katonah said:

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There is an incredible amount of NFL talent on the field right now.

Love Chaisson and Simmons. The kind of freak speed guys our defense needs. I want both guys.

In comment 14777791 Jim from Katonah said:

Quote:

In comment 14777786 section125 said: Quote: to be the guy I would want at #4. Me too.

Hell yes wow.

game and now we will be upset if he’s not the pick...

Haha. All that aside...this guy is really legit.

In comment 14777834 Mike in NY said:

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I can see why you want him versus someone like Ertz, but he needs to do a better job disengaging

So does every LB that's come out of college in the last 10-15 years. I looked earlier today. Kuechly, Wagner, Patrick Willis, Bowman & Rolando McClain all had this concern according to scouting reports.

Would be great if NYG can draft this stud

In comment 14777831 Jim from Katonah said:

Quote:

There is an incredible amount of NFL talent on the field right now.

No doubt about that. LSU has its share and it's pretty amazing to me Clemson had their whole DL drafted last year and they're right back reloaded.

but not gonna be a LB in the NFL. he will get washed out and he doesnt tackle down hill well enough to set the edge. He will be a great blitzer and cover guy oN TE's.

Cam Chancelor type. could excel.in a cover 3 type d.

In comment 14777840 Big Rick in FL said:

Quote:

In comment 14777834 Mike in NY said: Quote: I can see why you want him versus someone like Ertz, but he needs to do a better job disengaging So does every LB that's come out of college in the last 10-15 years. I looked earlier today. Kuechly, Wagner, Patrick Willis, Bowman & Rolando McClain all had this concern according to scouting reports.

Urlacher too.

In comment 14777847 Dankbeerman said:

Quote:

but not gonna be a LB in the NFL. he will get washed out and he doesnt tackle down hill well enough to set the edge. He will be a great blitzer and cover guy oN TE's. Cam Chancelor type. could excel.in a cover 3 type d.

Thank you for this expert analysis

and got taken out easily.

Burrows with great quick reaction to take off...

Balling tonight! He is all over the place, no way in hell hes not gonna be at the top of the board come draft time. This is who we need to take at 4

Is this something unusual for him?

I know Lawrence is the uber prospect, but I like Burrow better.

The experts said the same thing about Tremaine Edmunds. And 2 years in he’s one of the best linebackers in the NFL.

for LSU, Saahdiq Charles.

on his ass.

to me that they play him as safety. Takes away a lot of his game changing ability imo.

a middle LB, depending on the D. He is good in coverage.

In comment 14777929 Jon in NYC said:

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to me that they play him as safety. Takes away a lot of his game changing ability imo.

Agreed, but I don’t think they have the cover guys

But since I've been watching, Simmons has done nothing.

In comment 14777937 Mr. Bungle said:

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But since I've been watching, Simmons has done nothing.

He was all over the place in the beginning of the game but sine then hes done nothing. Hes mostly just being used in coverage though

In comment 14777937 Mr. Bungle said:

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But since I've been watching, Simmons has done nothing.

Exact same for me. Heard great things. Put game on...nothing except getting knocked on ass by a tiny WR and getting swallowed on a blitz as burrow runs by him for 6.

I'm a Simmons fan but I'm not so sure he is a LBer.

is pretty damn good.

Simmons is all over the place. Give him a set position and I think he is fine.
He is not going to make every defensive play.

In comment 14777949 BleedBlue said:

Quote:

In comment 14777937 Mr. Bungle said: Quote: But since I've been watching, Simmons has done nothing. Exact same for me. Heard great things. Put game on...nothing except getting knocked on ass by a tiny WR and getting swallowed on a blitz as burrow runs by him for 6. I'm a Simmons fan but I'm not so sure he is a LBer.

You mean the play where he was held around the neck? He has at least 2 pass break ups and has been a force.

In comment 14777583 5BowlsSoon said:

Quote:

1. Burrow 2. Chase 3. Simmons 4. ?

Trade down..which is easier said than done

The couple of times he pressured the QB, he was unblocked. He made a couple of stops on the TE and RB on pass plays, but they were near the LOS. I don't know how well he covers in space.

In comment 14777955 section125 said:

Quote:

is pretty damn good. Simmons is all over the place. Give him a set position and I think he is fine. He is not going to make every defensive play.

Agreed. He was covering Moss the TE all over the field and Moss did nothing. The one play he didn't take him, he got the TD there before half.

In comment 14777769 Doug in MA said:

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...he's the defensive version of Booby Miles.

Then he's no good. Wouldn't draft him because he only plays on Friday Nights

But He is good in coverage

I like him but not at 4

In comment 14777975 micky said:

Quote:

In comment 14777769 Doug in MA said: Quote: ...he's the defensive version of Booby Miles. Then he's no good. Wouldn't draft him because he only plays on Friday Nights

plus he has an ACL tear or had one. will affect him long term

In comment 14777978 Vanzetti said:

Quote:

But He is good in coverage I like him but not at 4

Does not play fast? What???

In comment 14777978 Vanzetti said:

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But He is good in coverage I like him but not at 4

Haha, what? Is there any player that’s every played football that is good in coverage but can’t play fast? Not sure how that’s even possible.

In comment 14777955 section125 said:

Quote:

is pretty damn good.

I was just gonna post about him. If he's available Day 3, he might be a nice pickup

Either Detroit will take him or he will be available and Gettleman will make some other pick just to show everyone how smart he is like Jeudy

Not one bit.

He's has been the best defender on the field for either team.

.

In comment 14778004 Mr. Bungle said:

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Not one bit.

He has 6 tackles, 2 TFL, 1 sack and multiple pass break ups. What game you watching my man?

In comment 14778004 Mr. Bungle said:

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Not one bit.

No sure what you expect from him. He's lined up all over the field and being asked to cover, blitz, play the run all from different parts of the field, and has made some nice plays.

He's excellent at covering a TE and I'm not down on his play tonight at all.

run on the last drive. Basically whiffed, when all he needed to do was pop the ball carrier out of bounds.

If the guy is in the discussion at #4 overall, he'd better be a gamewrecker, not a guy who jogs over to tackles that other players are making.

Maybe he'd be OK in the 20s somewhere, but not 4.

In comment 14778004 Mr. Bungle said:

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Not one bit.

OK Hellen Keller

In comment 14778004 Mr. Bungle said:

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Not one bit.

We can't take your opinion seriously anymore.

In comment 14778017 Mr. Bungle said:

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run on the last drive. Basically whiffed, when all he needed to do was pop the ball carrier out of bounds. If the guy is in the discussion at #4 overall, he'd better be a gamewrecker, not a guy who jogs over to tackles that other players are making. Maybe he'd be OK in the 20s somewhere, but not 4.

I like how you come to this conclusion after watching him for a half a game. Great eye for talent

Try to handle differing opinions a bit, OK? Make it a 2020 resolution or something.

In comment 14778017 Mr. Bungle said:

Quote:

run on the last drive. Basically whiffed, when all he needed to do was pop the ball carrier out of bounds. If the guy is in the discussion at #4 overall, he'd better be a gamewrecker, not a guy who jogs over to tackles that other players are making. Maybe he'd be OK in the 20s somewhere, but not 4.

106 tackles, 16.5 TFL, 8 sacks, 3 INTs, 1 forced fumble, 2 fumble recoveries and 6 pass deflections.

Nope not a gamewrecker 🙄

In comment 14777999 Blue Dream said:

Quote:

Either Detroit will take him or he will be available and Gettleman will make some other pick just to show everyone how smart he is like Jeudy

I hope Detroit does take him so we can then take Ukoduh.

Not even close to it. He can't take on blocks AT ALL.

I'M down with Mr Bungle here, and so is another fellow I'm watching with.

Maybe he's a safety, but he is not an LB or you'll be very disappointed.

soft and missed tackles. Will look right at home on the giants.

But I didnt see a #4 pick

but I just don't see it, at least not 4th overall. I think Okudah is a much better player and a much safer bet.

In comment 14778094 j_rud said:

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but I just don't see it, at least not 4th overall. I think Okudah is a much better player and a much safer bet.

Agreed

I would not take the risk. This team is not in the position to make gambles, need safe picks going forward.

add me to the list of no at 4. I've seen enough of him that even if he had 4 sacks tonight I'd still feel that way. One game isn't going to sway me. At 4, you want as close to a sure thing as you can get and he has many questions

In comment 14778004 Mr. Bungle said:

Quote:

Not one bit.

Then you know nothing about football and should stick with crocheting

You don't agree with someone's observation, so you attack the poster personally.

But I gather you Madden fuckers have no fffin clue what a LB looks like. There are standards real scouts use: weight in the thighs and butt, ability to take on and play off a block, ability to tackle head on and stop a ball carrier in his tracks.

Ability to deafeat a blocker aligned head up on you to get pressure on a QB, ability to go around someone off the edge, or straight through him, or to redirect when the OL blocking you opens his hips one way, and Dodge him to his opposite side...

You guys loving Simmons, point out two plays where he did any of those things, please.

Don't cite his stats fercrissakes.

Looked bigger than him. IDK. Looks like he can cover but...

so if we stay at the 4tg oick and simmons is available is he our draft pick I still want to trade down to the 5 through 7 picks they seem to want a qb

In comment 14778158 hankb1126 said:

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so if we stay at the 4tg oick and simmons is available is he our draft pick I still want to trade down to the 5 through 7 picks they seem to want a qb

I believe we are in prime position to trade down with a team that falls in love with Tua or Herbert or even Fromm or Eason depending on what happens between now and draft day. We are the slot RIGHT BEFORE Miami at #5 who have been rumored to love Tua for like 2 years now, so we are the ideal "leap frog" spot for any team trying to steal Tua from the Phins. Then of course the Chargers at #6 and Panthers at #7, and even the Jags at #9 are in play to take a QB, so I truly believe that if Burrow is the only QB taken in the top 3 picks, some team is going to want to trade up to our spot.

For all the stat lovers you can stop citing stats to make your argument about Simmons. Free blitz lanes and free hits off the edge unblocked to tackle the back for a loss. That accounts for his tackle for a loss. He looked horrible blitzing when he had to actually beat a man. He would actually get stuck to the lineman and not disengage. He can’t stop the run he’s quickly washed out of thE play. He didn’t play linebacker unless you call playing 10 yards of the los a linebacker. You guys still think he’s playing linebacker your kidding me. His best plays of the night came when he was lined up vs moss 1 on 1 outside in the slot or out wide. That’s where he thrived. Moss isn’t the fastest or best route runner. In the nfl Simmons is a safety. He will get destroyed vs nfl talent in coverage. Not all nfl WRs are as slow as Thaddeus Moss. Also, to label Simmons soft isn’t exactly inaccurate and I can’t blame him he’s built very very thin and stop comparing him to guys like Urlacher. It’s stupid. Urlacher was 258 coming out of college. Simmons is 230 soaking wet with 5 pound dumbbells in his pants pocket.

In comment 14778164 Tuckrule said:

Quote:

For all the stat lovers you can stop citing stats to make your argument about Simmons. Free blitz lanes and free hits off the edge unblocked to tackle the back for a loss. That accounts for his tackle for a loss. He looked horrible blitzing when he had to actually beat a man. He would actually get stuck to the lineman and not disengage. He can’t stop the run he’s quickly washed out of thE play. He didn’t play linebacker unless you call playing 10 yards of the los a linebacker. You guys still think he’s playing linebacker your kidding me. His best plays of the night came when he was lined up vs moss 1 on 1 outside in the slot or out wide. That’s where he thrived. Moss isn’t the fastest or best route runner. In the nfl Simmons is a safety. He will get destroyed vs nfl talent in coverage. Not all nfl WRs are as slow as Thaddeus Moss. Also, to label Simmons soft isn’t exactly inaccurate and I can’t blame him he’s built very very thin and stop comparing him to guys like Urlacher. It’s stupid. Urlacher was 258 coming out of college. Simmons is 230 soaking wet with 5 pound dumbbells in his pants pocket.

He can cover TE’s which Moss is. There were flashes and he clearly has athletic ability. I just did not see someone I would spend a #4 pick on. Maybe it was the scheme, but he is too easily neutralized when the DL can’t keep blockers off of him. That being said it did look like wherever possible LSU tried to work away from him. If you have someone who can shut down a portion of the field just due to their presence it makes it easier to cover the rest. I would not take him off the board in Round 1, but for me he is more of a target if we trade back for more picks.

He is extremely slow in and out of breaks and doesn’t appear to be much of a blocker. Also he had no idea how to use his body to shield a DB.. I do not see moss being an nfl tight end. Poor mans Dustin Keller. Simmons was not disruptive all over the field. The only thing he did was stop moss a few times. Other than that he was washed away most plays. He made plays on free rushes. I don’t see anyone going nuts over the mike linebacker, stalski, who played the best of any of the Clemson linebackers until his ejection.

The risk is compounded that if you take him (as a safety) you think you have filled a requirement and skip a true deep safety a few picks later. Or rounds.

Whereas you might use both.

Maybe trade down if possible, take (McKinney or someone) and the #1 or#2 ILB.

Unless this kid is a true deep safety and just didn't play that as reported here in bbi in this game .

of Julian Peterson

In comment 14778164 Tuckrule said:

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For all the stat lovers you can stop citing stats to make your argument about Simmons. Free blitz lanes and free hits off the edge unblocked to tackle the back for a loss. That accounts for his tackle for a loss. He looked horrible blitzing when he had to actually beat a man. He would actually get stuck to the lineman and not disengage. He can’t stop the run he’s quickly washed out of thE play. He didn’t play linebacker unless you call playing 10 yards of the los a linebacker. You guys still think he’s playing linebacker your kidding me. His best plays of the night came when he was lined up vs moss 1 on 1 outside in the slot or out wide. That’s where he thrived. Moss isn’t the fastest or best route runner. In the nfl Simmons is a safety. He will get destroyed vs nfl talent in coverage. Not all nfl WRs are as slow as Thaddeus Moss. Also, to label Simmons soft isn’t exactly inaccurate and I can’t blame him he’s built very very thin and stop comparing him to guys like Urlacher. It’s stupid. Urlacher was 258 coming out of college. Simmons is 230 soaking wet with 5 pound dumbbells in his pants pocket.

This.

He’s not what the Giants should be building around at 4.

Reminds me when everyone loved Zach Cunningham here leading into the draft. Raved about his coverage and ability to shut down TEs. How good did he look vs Kelce?

In comment 14777999 Blue Dream said:

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Either Detroit will take him or he will be available and Gettleman will make some other pick just to show everyone how smart he is like Jeudy

If Mr. Hog Mollies of all people takes Jeudy he should be canned on the spot.

the pick will likely be the best OT (Thomas , Wills, Wirfs, or?) or Okudah.

I'd bet a grand right now DG won't select Simmons or any WR at that slot.

but I bet he struggles in run support early in his career.

Aside from that, I think he's a really unique talent.

In comment 14778204 BlueLou'sBack said:

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the pick will likely be the best OT (Thomas , Wills, Wirfs, or?) or Okudah. I'd bet a grand right now DG won't select Simmons or any WR at that slot.

I’d bet a million. He’s going to do exactly what you said. He’s going to take the best lineman available to protect his 2 major assets in Daniel jones and saquon Barkley. I actually believe he does trade down and still selects an OT. I wouldn’t mind wirfs. Looks like a mauler at right tackle. Reminds me of Kmac

AND he lands in a spot with a creative staff who makes an effort to use him to the best of his abilities he might be a player. But you run the risk of a Jabrill Peppers situation. And I'm not comparing their games, rather projecting what Simmons career may very well end up looking like. Which is to say a really athletic player who does quite a few things fairly well but excels at nothing. A guy who will wow you once every few weeks on pure athleticism but always leaves you wanting more, because you can almost never win consistently on athleticism alone at this level.

He's a huge risk at 4. There are few if any "finished products" coming out but there are so many variables here and I don't think he's the kind of risk the team can afford at this point. If you want a safety in rd 1 (because he's not a LBer. He's just not. He might end up a pro bowler, who knows, but it wont be as a LBer) trade down and take Delpit.

In comment 14778217 Tuckrule said:

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In comment 14778204 BlueLou'sBack said: Quote: the pick will likely be the best OT (Thomas , Wills, Wirfs, or?) or Okudah. I'd bet a grand right now DG won't select Simmons or any WR at that slot. I’d bet a million. He’s going to do exactly what you said. He’s going to take the best lineman available to protect his 2 major assets in Daniel jones and saquon Barkley. I actually believe he does trade down and still selects an OT. I wouldn’t mind wirfs. Looks like a mauler at right tackle. Reminds me of Kmac

I hope they improve the OL as well, I just don’t see DG trading down.

but 4 is too high. I don't see how he can be an every down LB in the NFL, and if not, are you taking a safety at #4? Maybe if he's the next Ed Reed, but I don't see that in Simmons. Yes, he can cover a TE, but he struggles shedding blocks and he is a poor pass rusher. He can get to the QB, but has to be schemed there. He doesn't have the pass rush chops to get there otherwise.

Its going to be a QB spot. Dont fuck this up.

High risk, high reward. Either trade down or try to find the most solid starter you can find. Any position. Don’t tell me there is anything a #4 pick can’t do.

I know that is easy to say and hard to do.

Really hope they take one of those stud OLineman if both YOung and Okudah are off the board

As athletic as Tremaine Edmunds was, Simmons is much more athletic. 40 inch vertical, sub 4.4 speed, 6’4 height. In the words of Joe judge, I’m going to tell you what he can do, not what he can’t do.

Proficient at tracking ball carriers inside out, won’t overrun the play, elite range, makes sideline to sideline tackles with ease. Won’t be fooled on bootleg. A force on qb spy. Can play qb and pitch at the same time. Can cover deep middle in Tampa 2 Scheme, shows versatility to cover a deep 3rd from the linebacker position. Will make plays on the ball. Good eyes in zone coverage. Dominant against TE’s in man coverage. He doesn’t false step. Good play recognitions, good feel for where the play is going. Plays with wide, explosive base. Keeps shoulders square to the line of scrimmage.

If a coach can’t work with that on a team full of space eaters, I don’t know what to tell you.

In comment 14778349 aGiantGuy said:

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As athletic as Tremaine Edmunds was, Simmons is much more athletic. 40 inch vertical, sub 4.4 speed, 6’4 height. In the words of Joe judge, I’m going to tell you what he can do, not what he can’t do. Proficient at tracking ball carriers inside out, won’t overrun the play, elite range, makes sideline to sideline tackles with ease. Won’t be fooled on bootleg. A force on qb spy. Can play qb and pitch at the same time. Can cover deep middle in Tampa 2 Scheme, shows versatility to cover a deep 3rd from the linebacker position. Will make plays on the ball. Good eyes in zone coverage. Dominant against TE’s in man coverage. He doesn’t false step. Good play recognitions, good feel for where the play is going. Plays with wide, explosive base. Keeps shoulders square to the line of scrimmage. If a coach can’t work with that on a team full of space eaters, I don’t know what to tell you.

Edmunds also outweighs Simmons by 20 lbs. Now you can argue that Simmons can put on weight, but how will that impact his explosiveness? And what I imagine will be of concern to NFL GM's is how thin his lower body is. If he can't bulk up his legs, he's going to have a hard time being an every down LB.

On other plays, seemed like he was not giving 100% effort and/or just got outmuscled.

I think I'd pass on him at #4, but that's just my $.02. If the Giants want him there, I'm all in.

In comment 14778422 Del Shofner said:

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On other plays, seemed like he was not giving 100% effort and/or just got outmuscled. I think I'd pass on him at #4, but that's just my $.02. If the Giants want him there, I'm all in.

He looked gassed for sure, around the second half after the offense would get a few first downs or a big play, he’d look out of his element playing safety having to cover all that ground.

In comment 14778388 Section331 said:

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In comment 14778349 aGiantGuy said: Quote: As athletic as Tremaine Edmunds was, Simmons is much more athletic. 40 inch vertical, sub 4.4 speed, 6’4 height. In the words of Joe judge, I’m going to tell you what he can do, not what he can’t do. Proficient at tracking ball carriers inside out, won’t overrun the play, elite range, makes sideline to sideline tackles with ease. Won’t be fooled on bootleg. A force on qb spy. Can play qb and pitch at the same time. Can cover deep middle in Tampa 2 Scheme, shows versatility to cover a deep 3rd from the linebacker position. Will make plays on the ball. Good eyes in zone coverage. Dominant against TE’s in man coverage. He doesn’t false step. Good play recognitions, good feel for where the play is going. Plays with wide, explosive base. Keeps shoulders square to the line of scrimmage. If a coach can’t work with that on a team full of space eaters, I don’t know what to tell you. Edmunds also outweighs Simmons by 20 lbs. Now you can argue that Simmons can put on weight, but how will that impact his explosiveness? And what I imagine will be of concern to NFL GM's is how thin his lower body is. If he can't bulk up his legs, he's going to have a hard time being an every down LB.

Tremaine Edmunds was 250, but he looked absolutely lost taking on blockers, he also false stepped a lot, constantly overran the play and would end up on the other side of the field from where the ball was. He had warts, the Bills took a chance, it paid off. I would love for Gettleman to take a chance here.

Simmons seems very athletic, but in my layman POV I'm not sure he is physical enough to play LB in the NFL. There were a number of times he seemed to shy away from contact, the play on the sideline was one. You can't play LB in the NFL doing this.

Queen on the other hand was hitting everyone

In comment 14778496 PatersonPlank said:

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Simmons seems very athletic, but in my layman POV I'm not sure he is physical enough to play LB in the NFL. There were a number of times he seemed to shy away from contact, the play on the sideline was one. You can't play LB in the NFL doing this. Queen on the other hand was hitting everyone

Queen was amazing, I saw a draft site that had him as the 36th ranked off ball linebacker, that cannot be right. I like him more than I liked Devin White last year. Good, smart overall linebacker play. Maybe we can get him in the 3rd

In comment 14778507 aGiantGuy said:

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In comment 14778496 PatersonPlank said: Quote: Simmons seems very athletic, but in my layman POV I'm not sure he is physical enough to play LB in the NFL. There were a number of times he seemed to shy away from contact, the play on the sideline was one. You can't play LB in the NFL doing this. Queen on the other hand was hitting everyone Queen was amazing, I saw a draft site that had him as the 36th ranked off ball linebacker, that cannot be right. I like him more than I liked Devin White last year. Good, smart overall linebacker play. Maybe we can get him in the 3rd

I think Queen is a junior, is he coming out?

In comment 14778487 aGiantGuy said:

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Tremaine Edmunds was 250, but he looked absolutely lost taking on blockers, he also false stepped a lot, constantly overran the play and would end up on the other side of the field from where the ball was. He had warts, the Bills took a chance, it paid off. I would love for Gettleman to take a chance here.

As I said, I like Simmons, but not at #4. Bills took Edmunds with the 16th pick, I'd love for the Giants to trade down, get additional picks and take Simmons. I just don't see the value at 4.

.

In comment 14778518 PatersonPlank said:

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I think Queen is a junior, is he coming out?

Queen hasn't declared yet, as far as I know.

a lack of physicality or willingness to engage in contact. This is football, it's violent. No interest in chase players, I want violent tacklers who beat up the opponent.

In comment 14778630 JonC said:

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a lack of physicality or willingness to engage in contact. This is football, it's violent. No interest in chase players, I want violent tacklers who beat up the opponent.

I hear ya, but I wouldn’t mind coaching Simmons into that. You really can’t fault the guy for playing his position. It’s not like he was playing LB and got caught up in the wash every down. Swinney asked him to do a ton of different things and none of them included playing inside linebacker.

Edwards-Helaire squats 700 lbs, trucked a number of Clemson defenders as well as took some ankles, but when it came to 1 on 1 vs Simmons, that’s where the buck stopped, same thing against J.K. Dobbins. He showed plenty physicality, it just came in space, which is understandably hard to project.

Ryan Shazier was trucked by Sammy Watkins in the orange bowl. He had similar issues with getting caught in traffic and engulfed by larger blockers, but he was super athletic and could tackle well.

In college, he was in the 230 range, 40 inch Vert, some say he was sub 4.4, people thought he could only play will, said he lacked sand in his pants, he became a top 3 MLB in the NFL. He got better at playing blocks, him, Kuechly, and Wagner became the standard for what a 3 down mlb looks like.
Simmons is not only just as athletic but destroys Shazier in terms of wingspan.

and slightly faster Leonard Floyd. Sick athlete but too light in the pants to play LB in the NFL. Don't like him at all

At least can cover TE’s. Something we haven’t done in years.

He is a good player and I havent watched a ton of him so maybe it was an off game but the guy is just not physical enough for a LB. He's barely physical enough as a safety. I am looking for a guy that jumps off the screen when you see him and I see some flashes and thats not good enough at 4. I would rather go OT.

need an ideal landing spot in the NFL. I have no idea the defensive philosophy we'll employ, but a hybrid LB/S is where he's going to thrive.

And he'll likely be a difference maker there.

In comment 14778914 FatMan in Charlotte said:

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need an ideal landing spot in the NFL. I have no idea the defensive philosophy we'll employ, but a hybrid LB/S is where he's going to thrive. And he'll likely be a difference maker there.

How similar is he to Deion Jones in Atlanta?

Jones is the type of player that is really impactful in the modern NFL.

Can stick with dynamic backs/TEs, blitz, do a little bit of everything.

a couple inches taller, but they play a similar game.

Simmons isn't remotely in Shazier's class even as a collegian.

I see why fans like the speed and range and AA. But it tends to miss the mark on what you need in a front seven player and #4 overall pick investment. He's probably going to be part Leonard Floyd part FS. Not interested at #4. Note, I didn't love Floyd either.

and a multi-toolbox player as it appears that the Giants will have their own opinion of him.

I will note Carl Banks has a Man crush on him and that's interesting.

In comment 14779308 JonC said:

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Note, I didn't love Floyd either.

John, how could you say?

In comment 14779308 JonC said:

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Simmons isn't remotely in Shazier's class even as a collegian. I see why fans like the speed and range and AA. But it tends to miss the mark on what you need in a front seven player and #4 overall pick investment. He's probably going to be part Leonard Floyd part FS. Not interested at #4. Note, I didn't love Floyd either.

I agree with everything JonC is saying. I don't want to spend the #4 pick on a hybrid LB/SS who shies away from contact and who we don't even know what his role is going to be or what he's going to be able to do in the NFL. You can say "well he's a hybrid he can do so many things"... yeah or he won't be able to do anything. He might be too slow to cover NFL speed and not strong enough to take on NFL OL.

Chase Young and Jeffrey Okudah are the only players I like as top 5 prospects and unfortunately I'm pretty sure they're both going to be gone by #4. The only good thing about that is that would mean all QBs aside from Burrow will still be on the board and we would be in prime position to trade down.

I like Thomas and Jeudy as well but DL is the last of our needs at the moment and I don't want a WR with the #4 pick. Best case scenario is we trade down and get a haul and thereby get more of the red chip players JonC is saying there are in this draft instead of forcing a pick and convincing ourselves a guy is blue chip prospect when he simply isn't.

It's so funny to think about how much a loss to the Redskins in week 15 would have simplified everything. The choice would have been much more obvious and clear-cut and it would have reduced the number of threads re: the draft by like 90%.

In comment 14779693 Leg of Theismann said:

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In comment 14779308 JonC said: Quote: Simmons isn't remotely in Shazier's class even as a collegian. I see why fans like the speed and range and AA. But it tends to miss the mark on what you need in a front seven player and #4 overall pick investment. He's probably going to be part Leonard Floyd part FS. Not interested at #4. Note, I didn't love Floyd either. I agree with everything JonC is saying. I don't want to spend the #4 pick on a hybrid LB/SS who shies away from contact and who we don't even know what his role is going to be or what he's going to be able to do in the NFL. You can say "well he's a hybrid he can do so many things"... yeah or he won't be able to do anything. He might be too slow to cover NFL speed and not strong enough to take on NFL OL. Chase Young and Jeffrey Okudah are the only players I like as top 5 prospects and unfortunately I'm pretty sure they're both going to be gone by #4. The only good thing about that is that would mean all QBs aside from Burrow will still be on the board and we would be in prime position to trade down. I like Thomas and Jeudy as well but DL is the last of our needs at the moment and I don't want a WR with the #4 pick. Best case scenario is we trade down and get a haul and thereby get more of the red chip players JonC is saying there are in this draft instead of forcing a pick and convincing ourselves a guy is blue chip prospect when he simply isn't. It's so funny to think about how much a loss to the Redskins in week 15 would have simplified everything. The choice would have been much more obvious and clear-cut and it would have reduced the number of threads re: the draft by like 90%.

this debate on simmons's position is going to last for the next four months and i find it extremely tiring. if you don't clearly see how he's going to be used you harp on how his particular inability to fill traditional roles at linebacker and cornerback (nickel) positions are going to say those issues are fatal.

great.

that's how you feel.

you will ignore his strengths and what makes him unique. or you'll say what makes him unique either won't work in the nfl (despite no meaningful comps, and no, urlacher and floyd are not comps people are making, they're foils you use), or that he really isn't good in the first place.

you'll say hybrid players are inherently risky and players who fit traditional roles are more successful.

or maybe you'll say those things aren't necessarily true but that therefore he's not worth it at #4.

fine.

the team will grade him and pick or not pick him accordingly.

debating this further will be circular and without further information, unfruitful.

i'm no simmons activist it just seems everyone arguing against him are missing the mark on the premise on which they evaluate him. they'll say abstract things like, "no, players list him are later first round picks". but what if there aren't that many players better than that? seems that doesn't matter.

if he's that good and grades that high he should be drafted that high.

we'll see what the giant's think in april.

In comment 14779341 BigBlueCane said:

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and a multi-toolbox player as it appears that the Giants will have their own opinion of him. I will note Carl Banks has a Man crush on him and that's interesting.

He's got the highest ceiling in the draft. There is definitely risk taking him at #4, but the upside could be huge. You can't teach that speed or the length. Clemson asks him to do everything on that defense. I really like the track background, too.

Last night, they were basically in a 3-1-7 the entire night with Simmons patrolling the middle. But LSU just had too many answers outside the hashes. Simmons still had a nice night - 7 tackles, 2 passes defended, 2 tackles for losses, and sack.

Posters who haven't really seen him play over the entire season look at one game in a bubble and judge exclusively off that. I see a bigger version of Minkah Fitzpatrick and that rover role he played at Bama...

I expect he'll light up the Combine, come in bigger (because he can now add more weight with the season over), and

A unanimous 1st team all-American is not in Shazier’s class as a collegian? I guess we just have to agree to disagree.

In comment 14779721 aGiantGuy said:

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A unanimous 1st team all-American is not in Shazier’s class as a collegian? I guess we just have to agree to disagree.

The list of 1st team All Americans who didn't amount to a hill of beans in the NFL can pave I-80 from the GW to the Golden Gate bridges...

Well make that the Oakkand SF Bay Bridge.

and has shown he lacks a 100% motor

Can be a good NFL player but wouldn't take him at #4.

/
Link - ( New Window )

In comment 14779726 BlueLou'sBack said:

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In comment 14779721 aGiantGuy said: Quote: A unanimous 1st team all-American is not in Shazier’s class as a collegian? I guess we just have to agree to disagree. The list of 1st team All Americans who didn't amount to a hill of beans in the NFL can pave I-80 from the GW to the Golden Gate bridges... Well make that the Oakkand SF Bay Bridge.

Keyword: Unanimous. Show me that list.

Shazier’s not on it

In comment 14779721 aGiantGuy said:

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A unanimous 1st team all-American is not in Shazier’s class as a collegian? I guess we just have to agree to disagree.

Two entirely different players. Shazier was a pure inside LB who projected to LB in the NFL. Simmons is going to be a hybrid peg. The kid in Buffalo is a different player as well, he's got enough size and pop to his physical game Simmons doesn't display.

I'm done with the Simmons debate. Those skinny legs and his avoiding contact infuriate me. Giants could draft him and I still could be right in the end, a waste of #4 overall. Or I could be wrong, time will tell.

Fair enough, hopefully we take an offensive lineman if we hire Garrett, maybe Simmons isn’t worth the risk at this point