someone like Garret or Jay Gruden to come as an OC...as they would likely wanted that title, given they've been head coaches before.
In the time I spent around Gruden here in Ashburn he really enjoys his free time going out drinking and banging young girls. My guess is he will take a year off to party. Would not shock me at all. Dude gets down.
Unless he can find a former HC willing to drop back to OC, I think we are going to get an NFL up-and-comer first time OC, or an experienced college OC.
Garrett,Caldwell likely not willing to be OCs at this point. Is Kitchens still in play? McAdoo may be looking better and better. LOL
And you are basing your statement on? I'm under the impression that he's getting the guys who he wants.
Does it? The AHC title generally means more money, but if Flores wanted to keep him and the divide was over cash, does anyone really think Ross wouldn't pay up to keep his guy?
Yes it does. For years, this one of the only ways you can get a guy to make what effectively is a lateral move.
Again over hires they literally know nothing about. You don't know ANY of these people aside from names and what you can google. You don't know their demeanor, philosophy, talent level, ability level, literally fucking nothing so stfu already.
Most people seem to think that Brian Flores did a great job in Miami, yet they dont extend any of that credit to his Assts like Graham. Puzzling
We saw the same idea with Rhule, whom everyone loved his college success yet balk at the idea of bringing some of the people who helped with that success.
We are seeing that with Judge who articulated a very specific and proven vision for this team but many people seem to want him to select Assts who would run things themselves and very differently like Wade Phillips and Norv Turner or "former head coaches"
If Rhule was successful wasnt Snow?
If Flores did a remarkable job with no talent, didn't Graham also?
Im left scratching my head as to what so many people think a Head Coach does?
Most people seem to think that Brian Flores did a great job in Miami, yet they dont extend any of that credit to his Assts like Graham. Puzzling
We saw the same idea with Rhule, whom everyone loved his college success yet balk at the idea of bringing some of the people who helped with that success.
We are seeing that with Judge who articulated a very specific and proven vision for this team but many people seem to want him to select Assts who would run things themselves and very differently like Wade Phillips and Norv Turner or "former head coaches"
If Rhule was successful wasnt Snow?
If Flores did a remarkable job with no talent, didn't Graham also?
Im left scratching my head as to what so many people think a Head Coach does?
Flores gets credit because Miami somehow did enough on offense to win 5 games. The Defense allowed 17 or fewer points twice all season. One was to Washington early in Haskins’s tenure and the other was an Indianapolis team starting Brian Hoyer at QB. The Defense allowed more than 30 points 10 times. Among those were the Giants scoring 36, the most we scored against any team in regulation all year. They lost their first 4 games a combined 163-26. The 26 combined points would not have been enough to win any individual game.
Does it? The AHC title generally means more money, but if Flores wanted to keep him and the divide was over cash, does anyone really think Ross wouldn't pay up to keep his guy?
Yes it does. For years, this one of the only ways you can get a guy to make what effectively is a lateral move.
True, but I thought that was in instances where you wanted to hire away a coach who wasn't given permission to interview, and the rule was you didn't need to ask if the coach was getting a promotion (e.g., position coach to coordinator, coordinator to AHC).
I thought they did away with that loophole. And in this case, Miami granted permission.
The Giants might have given him AHC because they feel he earned it, he might have demanded it himself as part of a lateral move for visibility and promotion to the next level. But none of it explains why Miami would let him go.
Does it? The AHC title generally means more money, but if Flores wanted to keep him and the divide was over cash, does anyone really think Ross wouldn't pay up to keep his guy?
Yes it does. For years, this one of the only ways you can get a guy to make what effectively is a lateral move.
True, but I thought that was in instances where you wanted to hire away a coach who wasn't given permission to interview, and the rule was you didn't need to ask if the coach was getting a promotion (e.g., position coach to coordinator, coordinator to AHC).
I thought they did away with that loophole. And in this case, Miami granted permission.
The Giants might have given him AHC because they feel he earned it, he might have demanded it himself as part of a lateral move for visibility and promotion to the next level. But none of it explains why Miami would let him go.
Miami let him go because they have a DB Coach they really like and they were afraid that if he can get performance out of no names again in 2020 he would get a DC position, especially from those who knew him from New England. He will likely be named DC to replace Graham.
Miami let him go because they have a DB Coach they really like and they were afraid that if he can get performance out of no names again in 2020 he would get a DC position, especially from those who knew him from New England. He will likely be named DC to replace Graham.
So, do you think Miami expects an improvement, decline or to remain the same as far as their defensive coaching this season?
On a rebuilding team, Flores cut loose a few coaches after what many considered a very positive season for a team that had dumped a lot of it's talent. If they thought Graham was the better coach, do you think they'd let him go because they didn't want to lose the DBs coach? If it were your team, would you let a guy you thought was doing a good job go for a lateral move to another team, if you knew it was going to open up a hole on your staff?
Looking at it from Flores' perspective it still doesn't make sense to me unless they had some differences of opinion on strategy or Flores thought he'd be upgrading with the promotion of the other coach.
Miami let him go because they have a DB Coach they really like and they were afraid that if he can get performance out of no names again in 2020 he would get a DC position, especially from those who knew him from New England. He will likely be named DC to replace Graham.
So, do you think Miami expects an improvement, decline or to remain the same as far as their defensive coaching this season?
On a rebuilding team, Flores cut loose a few coaches after what many considered a very positive season for a team that had dumped a lot of it's talent. If they thought Graham was the better coach, do you think they'd let him go because they didn't want to lose the DBs coach? If it were your team, would you let a guy you thought was doing a good job go for a lateral move to another team, if you knew it was going to open up a hole on your staff?
Looking at it from Flores' perspective it still doesn't make sense to me unless they had some differences of opinion on strategy or Flores thought he'd be upgrading with the promotion of the other coach.
I think Flores expects to be better with the different coordinator, which makes me wonder why we were so hot for Graham anyway.
Flores and Graham are friends. Graham spent a lot of time in the northeast. If Graham asked to Flores to allow him to leave he may have done that for the sake of friendship more than anything else.
RE: God these hires have failure written all over them Â
The more i read and see how the judge regime acts and who they hire, the less I fel it’s going to work in 2020.
But what do I know? It’s 50/50 any of us are right.
Just please bring back Giants football,
LOL. The more you "read and see how the judge regime acts"?? Fuck - you've been killing this team for years. You probably haven't read or seen much - you just dislike any move made.
Which is why you just complain and don't even have a point in that response. It's 50/50 anyone's right?? What the fuck does that even mean?
shit written by people who don't have a single clue (I don't have a clue either, but I know it!). Many of the same people who were probably crying about the DJ pick and if old enough, the Eli trade, the signing and extensions of Coughlin, Simms who?, etc.
Yea the Giants have sucked for a while, but that doesn't mean they're going to suck forever and no one knows for sure where we'll be a year or 2 from now.
The more i read and see how the judge regime acts and who they hire, the less I fel it’s going to work in 2020.
But what do I know? It’s 50/50 any of us are right.
Just please bring back Giants football,
LOL. The more you "read and see how the judge regime acts"?? Fuck - you've been killing this team for years. You probably haven't read or seen much - you just dislike any move made.
Which is why you just complain and don't even have a point in that response. It's 50/50 anyone's right?? What the fuck does that even mean?
Sounds like you're entry level in the 60s. Nothing to add to this discussion but you'd think they'd have more sophisticated titles in the NFL.
Coordinator is also entry-level at just about every other corporate entity, so the NFL's title structure for coaches is difficult to align with typical titles. What else would you use, Vice President, Offense? Director of Linebacker Operations?
not only to get more $$, but the purpose to designate a coach with the assistant head coach title was that for that coach to leave the team for another job, that job had to be as a head coach. So if that's the case, if everything works for the Giants, the only way that Graham could leave is to be the head coach, he couldn't go and be a DC anywhere else. I could be wrong, but as I recall, it was done to kind of flag for teams that he's a potential head coach and the only way he was going to leave was to give him that job.
That's always the case with or without the AHC title. Milton detailed it well - the only promotion that the NFL recognizes is from any assistant level (whether that's position coach, coordinator, AHC or any other title) to head coach. Anything else requires consent from the team to which the candidate is under contract. So he couldn't leave to be a DC anywhere else without the Giants' approval, same as the Giants had to get Miami's permission to pursue Graham in the first place, with or without the AHC designation.
AHC is about as meaningless a title as there is, but it does denote that he's decidedly JJ's second-in-command among the staff. And it probably means more money to Graham. But it means precisely squat with regard to his availability to other teams.
His hires are people he has worked with either from the Pats or Alabama, so you people being critical realize they were hired by Belechick or Saban, the best in the business. Is the argument the roles they have here? They have more responsibility here, that is called promotions, they happen all the time, they are being given a promotion and an opportunity, that happens when people believe in you usually from working with you or from hearing from a person you trust about ones performance in a role you need to accomplish your goals, so unless you have worked with these guys and with coach Judge and have real insight, best to not know and wait and see.
Told us they were going to take thier time to ensure they had the right people, he is not having trouble, he is being thorough, a description he used, he said he wants everyone to be single focused on the goals. He is being deliberate, he told us up front, no surprises, all the hires make sense from his perspective, based on what he told us.
It is obvious that Graham feels NYC metro is where he calls home. So I could see that if he had the chance to return up here, Flores would understand.
Also as an aside - I heard him use "heavy handed" as a DL description - Back in the McAdoo days -I wonder if it was his term all along that we heard BM use in press conferences
It is obvious that Graham feels NYC metro is where he calls home. So I could see that if he had the chance to return up here, Flores would understand.
Also as an aside - I heard him use "heavy handed" as a DL description - Back in the McAdoo days -I wonder if it was his term all along that we heard BM use in press conferences
Graham is from Waterbury, CT (Crosby HS) and played football at Yale in New Haven.
Found some articles about him in the Waterbury Republican-American if anyone is interested. Will post them. Last July - ( New Window )
Sounds like you're entry level in the 60s. Nothing to add to this discussion but you'd think they'd have more sophisticated titles in the NFL.
Coordinator is also entry-level at just about every other corporate entity, so the NFL's title structure for coaches is difficult to align with typical titles. What else would you use, Vice President, Offense? Director of Linebacker Operations?
HAHAHAHA!
Think Judge will be supervising all the units, that's why he is Â
will either be genius or explode in face.
hoping for the former lol
Well they are coming off two explosions to the face so I think they are willing to take that risk. At this point what does it matter?
In the time I spent around Gruden here in Ashburn he really enjoys his free time going out drinking and banging young girls. My guess is he will take a year off to party. Would not shock me at all. Dude gets down.
Quote:
If Flores really was opening the door to let Graham out of town because he is a nice guy who wants to make his friends happy.
I think so and keep in mind Flores is the defacto Def Co. It is his defense and now Graham can have his own defense.
Giants job may come with a significant pay raise. Flores would not want to stand in the way.
Did they do that with Spags to keep him?
Unless he can find a former HC willing to drop back to OC, I think we are going to get an NFL up-and-comer first time OC, or an experienced college OC.
Garrett,Caldwell likely not willing to be OCs at this point. Is Kitchens still in play? McAdoo may be looking better and better. LOL
And you are basing your statement on? I'm under the impression that he's getting the guys who he wants.
Quote:
it makes more sense why Miami let him go.
Does it? The AHC title generally means more money, but if Flores wanted to keep him and the divide was over cash, does anyone really think Ross wouldn't pay up to keep his guy?
Yes it does. For years, this one of the only ways you can get a guy to make what effectively is a lateral move.
Obviously, JJ sees great things in Graham.
Was excited too. AZ was good. I do not like Miami's Def, so I was not a fan of the higher. Which means he'll probably do awesome.
Quote:
"Assistant head coach"? This is kind of a precedent, no?
Ron Erhardt?
Did they do that with Spags to keep him?
Quote:
In comment 14777561 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
"Assistant head coach"? This is kind of a precedent, no?
Ron Erhardt?
Did they do that with Spags to keep him?
Ron Erhardt
Wtf
Wtf
It is getting weird.
Wtf
Huh? Where?
Quote:
The racism?
Wtf
It is getting weird.
Who's comment?
Thank you. That was bothersome.
didn't see the comment. is the poster suspended? who was it?
...RAY f'in HANDLEY... was Parcells' AHC in 1990
As long as he doesn’t coach defense ever again w the Giants Sure. Guy was a disaster in NY
Yup. It wasn't a lateral move as many thought and it was initially portrayed.
But what do I know? It’s 50/50 any of us are right.
Just please bring back Giants football,
We saw the same idea with Rhule, whom everyone loved his college success yet balk at the idea of bringing some of the people who helped with that success.
We are seeing that with Judge who articulated a very specific and proven vision for this team but many people seem to want him to select Assts who would run things themselves and very differently like Wade Phillips and Norv Turner or "former head coaches"
If Rhule was successful wasnt Snow?
If Flores did a remarkable job with no talent, didn't Graham also?
Im left scratching my head as to what so many people think a Head Coach does?
We saw the same idea with Rhule, whom everyone loved his college success yet balk at the idea of bringing some of the people who helped with that success.
We are seeing that with Judge who articulated a very specific and proven vision for this team but many people seem to want him to select Assts who would run things themselves and very differently like Wade Phillips and Norv Turner or "former head coaches"
If Rhule was successful wasnt Snow?
If Flores did a remarkable job with no talent, didn't Graham also?
Im left scratching my head as to what so many people think a Head Coach does?
Flores gets credit because Miami somehow did enough on offense to win 5 games. The Defense allowed 17 or fewer points twice all season. One was to Washington early in Haskins’s tenure and the other was an Indianapolis team starting Brian Hoyer at QB. The Defense allowed more than 30 points 10 times. Among those were the Giants scoring 36, the most we scored against any team in regulation all year. They lost their first 4 games a combined 163-26. The 26 combined points would not have been enough to win any individual game.
Quote:
In comment 14777544 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
it makes more sense why Miami let him go.
Does it? The AHC title generally means more money, but if Flores wanted to keep him and the divide was over cash, does anyone really think Ross wouldn't pay up to keep his guy?
Yes it does. For years, this one of the only ways you can get a guy to make what effectively is a lateral move.
True, but I thought that was in instances where you wanted to hire away a coach who wasn't given permission to interview, and the rule was you didn't need to ask if the coach was getting a promotion (e.g., position coach to coordinator, coordinator to AHC).
I thought they did away with that loophole. And in this case, Miami granted permission.
The Giants might have given him AHC because they feel he earned it, he might have demanded it himself as part of a lateral move for visibility and promotion to the next level. But none of it explains why Miami would let him go.
Quote:
In comment 14777645 jcn56 said:
Quote:
In comment 14777544 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
it makes more sense why Miami let him go.
Does it? The AHC title generally means more money, but if Flores wanted to keep him and the divide was over cash, does anyone really think Ross wouldn't pay up to keep his guy?
Yes it does. For years, this one of the only ways you can get a guy to make what effectively is a lateral move.
True, but I thought that was in instances where you wanted to hire away a coach who wasn't given permission to interview, and the rule was you didn't need to ask if the coach was getting a promotion (e.g., position coach to coordinator, coordinator to AHC).
I thought they did away with that loophole. And in this case, Miami granted permission.
The Giants might have given him AHC because they feel he earned it, he might have demanded it himself as part of a lateral move for visibility and promotion to the next level. But none of it explains why Miami would let him go.
Miami let him go because they have a DB Coach they really like and they were afraid that if he can get performance out of no names again in 2020 he would get a DC position, especially from those who knew him from New England. He will likely be named DC to replace Graham.
Miami let him go because they have a DB Coach they really like and they were afraid that if he can get performance out of no names again in 2020 he would get a DC position, especially from those who knew him from New England. He will likely be named DC to replace Graham.
So, do you think Miami expects an improvement, decline or to remain the same as far as their defensive coaching this season?
On a rebuilding team, Flores cut loose a few coaches after what many considered a very positive season for a team that had dumped a lot of it's talent. If they thought Graham was the better coach, do you think they'd let him go because they didn't want to lose the DBs coach? If it were your team, would you let a guy you thought was doing a good job go for a lateral move to another team, if you knew it was going to open up a hole on your staff?
Looking at it from Flores' perspective it still doesn't make sense to me unless they had some differences of opinion on strategy or Flores thought he'd be upgrading with the promotion of the other coach.
Quote:
Miami let him go because they have a DB Coach they really like and they were afraid that if he can get performance out of no names again in 2020 he would get a DC position, especially from those who knew him from New England. He will likely be named DC to replace Graham.
So, do you think Miami expects an improvement, decline or to remain the same as far as their defensive coaching this season?
On a rebuilding team, Flores cut loose a few coaches after what many considered a very positive season for a team that had dumped a lot of it's talent. If they thought Graham was the better coach, do you think they'd let him go because they didn't want to lose the DBs coach? If it were your team, would you let a guy you thought was doing a good job go for a lateral move to another team, if you knew it was going to open up a hole on your staff?
Looking at it from Flores' perspective it still doesn't make sense to me unless they had some differences of opinion on strategy or Flores thought he'd be upgrading with the promotion of the other coach.
I think Flores expects to be better with the different coordinator, which makes me wonder why we were so hot for Graham anyway.
Point is, let the Coach get the people he feels comfortable with. It’ll work better that way.
But what do I know? It’s 50/50 any of us are right.
Just please bring back Giants football,
Please see the post from Joey in VA above yours.
But what do I know? It’s 50/50 any of us are right.
Just please bring back Giants football,
LOL. The more you "read and see how the judge regime acts"?? Fuck - you've been killing this team for years. You probably haven't read or seen much - you just dislike any move made.
Which is why you just complain and don't even have a point in that response. It's 50/50 anyone's right?? What the fuck does that even mean?
Yea the Giants have sucked for a while, but that doesn't mean they're going to suck forever and no one knows for sure where we'll be a year or 2 from now.
Chill the f^ck out.
Quote:
The more i read and see how the judge regime acts and who they hire, the less I fel it’s going to work in 2020.
But what do I know? It’s 50/50 any of us are right.
Just please bring back Giants football,
LOL. The more you "read and see how the judge regime acts"?? Fuck - you've been killing this team for years. You probably haven't read or seen much - you just dislike any move made.
Which is why you just complain and don't even have a point in that response. It's 50/50 anyone's right?? What the fuck does that even mean?
I’m sorry do I know you?
Coordinator is also entry-level at just about every other corporate entity, so the NFL's title structure for coaches is difficult to align with typical titles. What else would you use, Vice President, Offense? Director of Linebacker Operations?
That's always the case with or without the AHC title. Milton detailed it well - the only promotion that the NFL recognizes is from any assistant level (whether that's position coach, coordinator, AHC or any other title) to head coach. Anything else requires consent from the team to which the candidate is under contract. So he couldn't leave to be a DC anywhere else without the Giants' approval, same as the Giants had to get Miami's permission to pursue Graham in the first place, with or without the AHC designation.
AHC is about as meaningless a title as there is, but it does denote that he's decidedly JJ's second-in-command among the staff. And it probably means more money to Graham. But it means precisely squat with regard to his availability to other teams.
Also as an aside - I heard him use "heavy handed" as a DL description - Back in the McAdoo days -I wonder if it was his term all along that we heard BM use in press conferences
Also as an aside - I heard him use "heavy handed" as a DL description - Back in the McAdoo days -I wonder if it was his term all along that we heard BM use in press conferences
Found some articles about him in the Waterbury Republican-American if anyone is interested. Will post them.
Last July - ( New Window )
Lonk from 2015 - ( New Window )
Return to Crosby High - ( New Window )
Quote:
Sounds like you're entry level in the 60s. Nothing to add to this discussion but you'd think they'd have more sophisticated titles in the NFL.
Coordinator is also entry-level at just about every other corporate entity, so the NFL's title structure for coaches is difficult to align with typical titles. What else would you use, Vice President, Offense? Director of Linebacker Operations?
HAHAHAHA!
What the fuck is right? Are you ok?