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David Diehl analyzes Leonard Williams' game tape

gidiefor : Mod : 1/13/2020 7:02 pm
...video linked below
Inside the Film Room: Leonard Williams - ( New Window )
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How much.  
FatMan in Charlotte : 1/14/2020 3:28 pm : link
of the perception surrounding Peppers was due to his play or the players around him??

Peppers was playing pretty damn well when he got injured. He was making impact plays and was stout against the run. Outside of the INT returned for a TD, he also had a tackle for loss in 5 of his last 7 games and forced 3 fumbles.

He played better than Collins did the year prior.

He gets lumped in with the overall D performance and that isn't fair.
RE: Klaatu  
Klaatu : 1/14/2020 3:32 pm : link
In comment 14779004 cosmicj said:
Quote:
That's what the player acquisition market is these days. Trade and sign. Look at the big Dee Ford and Frank Clark transactions last spring.


I'd take Dee Ford or Frank Clark over Leonard Williams any day and twice on Sundays. They had the production to justify it. They're both impact players, difference-makers. Williams is not, but the odds are we're going to pay him like one.

I don't have a problem with the concept. I have a problem with the player...and with the GM.
C'mon..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 1/14/2020 3:35 pm : link
Williams probably had the greatest impact on the D than any other player this season. The improvement against the run was impressive.

Do you think Ford or Clark on last year's Giants team make an impact like they have where they are? I don't.

Again - it is like people are making Williams out to be pedestrian.
Where Williams was drafted is irrelevant  
Go Terps : 1/14/2020 3:36 pm : link
.
The other thing about Ford and Clark..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 1/14/2020 3:39 pm : link
is that people want to compare Williams stats to them in sacks. Hell, people want to compare Williams stats to 4-3 DE's for some reason. Maybe it is just ignorance, but it seems like it is done on every thread.

Williams is not a DE in a 4-3. He's basically a DL guy.
RE: Guys  
bw in dc : 1/14/2020 3:41 pm : link
In comment 14778373 cosmicj said:
Quote:

The Giants have plenty of negotiating leverage. It's called a tag (whether that iis one of the two types of franchise tags or the transition tag is a tactical question). LW has every incentive to sign a long-term deal that is likely to include $40M+ of guaranteed cash vs playing our the 2020 season on a tag. The tag is difficult for the teams to manage only if they don't have a lot of cap room. The Giants have plenty. The statement that Gettleman has no leverage is simply FALSE.



The transitional tag is not leverage. If LW gets an offer and we don't match it, there is NO compensation for the lost. So just toss that out.

If you think LW is worth the projected $18M FT for an average/average plus DT, then I guess the Giants do have leverage.

I think DTs are fairly rich in supply and you shouldn't break the bank for that position unless you have a Donald or Cox type. Players who truly impact the pass and the run. LW is not that.

And I'm not sure about this force multiplier impact some suggest LW has. The Jets D didn't miss a beat when he left. And while some cite this material impact he had for us statistically stopping the run, the teams we played down the stretch won't be confused with the '95 Nebraska Cornhuskers. For what we currently have on the roster at DT, I see LW has nothing more than a redundancy.

Just another uninspiring move to add to the list of uninspiring moves by Resume...
When I start disagreeing with FMiC and agreeing with Game of Terps...  
Klaatu : 1/14/2020 3:42 pm : link
You know the world has turned upside down.
RE: Where Williams was drafted is irrelevant  
gidiefor : Mod : 1/14/2020 3:45 pm : link
In comment 14779024 Go Terps said:
Quote:
.


You know what Terps -- that's a bunch of bull -- it's totally relevant, and WIlliams is also a first round talent. You are only saying it's irrelevant because you have nothing to really refute here. Might as well just say the facts aren't relevant to prove your point.
RE: How much.  
Jimmy Googs : 1/14/2020 3:48 pm : link
In comment 14779008 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
of the perception surrounding Peppers was due to his play or the players around him??

Peppers was playing pretty damn well when he got injured. He was making impact plays and was stout against the run. Outside of the INT returned for a TD, he also had a tackle for loss in 5 of his last 7 games and forced 3 fumbles.

He played better than Collins did the year prior.

He gets lumped in with the overall D performance and that isn't fair.


The defense as a whole needs to be greater than the sum of the parts. This defense has plenty of costly parts that need to show far more than they do.

Until that happens lets hold off on saying guys like Peppers are being unfairly viewed...
I like these nicknames  
cosmicj : 1/14/2020 3:49 pm : link
Resume...

Game of Terps...

This debate goes round and round. But at least you can smile at these.
RE: How much.  
ron mexico : 1/14/2020 3:53 pm : link
In comment 14779008 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
of the perception surrounding Peppers was due to his play or the players around him??

Peppers was playing pretty damn well when he got injured. He was making impact plays and was stout against the run. Outside of the INT returned for a TD, he also had a tackle for loss in 5 of his last 7 games and forced 3 fumbles.

He played better than Collins did the year prior.

He gets lumped in with the overall D performance and that isn't fair.


I have a feeling that if the D ever gets better, Peppers will be exposed for what he is, a liability.

Before he got hurt he was the least easy target, but his is not a sound , disciplined player. And no where near the physical run stopper Collins was for us.

RE: RE: Where Williams was drafted is irrelevant  
Go Terps : 1/14/2020 3:54 pm : link
In comment 14779037 gidiefor said:
Quote:
In comment 14779024 Go Terps said:


Quote:


.



You know what Terps -- that's a bunch of bull -- it's totally relevant, and WIlliams is also a first round talent. You are only saying it's irrelevant because you have nothing to really refute here. Might as well just say the facts aren't relevant to prove your point.


I pointed out facts above - Williams didn't make much difference against Dallas or a crippled Philly team.

The Giants defense was a joke this season. I can't imagine paying anyone on it a premium free agent contract.

I come back to this: A money for B players is bad business.
i've said it 1m times but tagging Williams is 100% the best outcome  
Eric on Li : 1/14/2020 3:56 pm : link
$17m for 1 year, highly motivated, says he wants to stay here, see how he fits in the new D before committing big $. That preserves all options.

a) if he's a great fit they can sign him long term.
b) if he's not a great fit they trade him or just let him walk and get a comp pick.

If he's willing to sign a reasonable extension around what Jarrett got right now bc he wants to be here, I'd consider that (though obviously Judge/Graham's opinions would weigh in heavily as well). LW doesn't really have any options if the Giants tag him.
I don't even know what to say..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 1/14/2020 3:57 pm : link
to this:

Quote:
The defense as a whole needs to be greater than the sum of the parts. This defense has plenty of costly parts that need to show far more than they do.

Until that happens lets hold off on saying guys like Peppers are being unfairly viewed...


Our defense is one of the lowest cap allocations in the NFL. 31st. Where are these costly parts? Ogletree and who??

I'd turn it around and say let's hold off on calling players disappointing until we actually are allocating more to that side of the ball, but hey - that might mean putting a pitchfork away for a period of time.

how about we hold off calling them dissapointing  
ron mexico : 1/14/2020 4:01 pm : link
when they stop disappointing us on Sundays

I guess we are getting out 31st lowest payrolls money worth though with our 30th ranked D - Yay!!


Understood but meant costly parts  
Jimmy Googs : 1/14/2020 4:04 pm : link
as to the draft collateral used as well and the soon to be price tag for Mr. Williams. Clearly young drafted guys should be allotted time in the NFL to get it together. But at some point Christmas is over and business is business...
RE: I like these nicknames  
Klaatu : 1/14/2020 4:05 pm : link
In comment 14779047 cosmicj said:
Quote:
Resume...

Game of Terps...

This debate goes round and round. But at least you can smile at these.


It's just football, man. For me, anyway. I can disagree, but I try not to be too disagreeable. Doesn't always work, but I try. One of the positive takeaways in the aftermath of having a heart attack four years ago. I've lightened up considerably, physically and mentally.

But it's a good thing we're not allowed to discuss politics on the site, lol.
The $15-$18M Williams figured to get  
Go Terps : 1/14/2020 4:06 pm : link
Can pay for 5-6 players on the secondary free agent market. I think that's where we need to be active - signings like Golden and Remmers, both of which made sense - to supplement the players we draft.
RE: I don't even know what to say..  
Thegratefulhead : 1/14/2020 4:10 pm : link
In comment 14779064 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
to this:



Quote:


The defense as a whole needs to be greater than the sum of the parts. This defense has plenty of costly parts that need to show far more than they do.

Until that happens lets hold off on saying guys like Peppers are being unfairly viewed...



Our defense is one of the lowest cap allocations in the NFL. 31st. Where are these costly parts? Ogletree and who??

I'd turn it around and say let's hold off on calling players disappointing until we actually are allocating more to that side of the ball, but hey - that might mean putting a pitchfork away for a period of time.
You are a reasonable guy. 3-13 5-11 4-12 Pitchforks are not going away until we win some games. Criticism are legitimate. People get personal and go over the top and you crush them for it, fair enough.
RE: RE: Where Williams was drafted is irrelevant  
bw in dc : 1/14/2020 4:10 pm : link
In comment 14779037 gidiefor said:
Quote:
In comment 14779024 Go Terps said:


Quote:


.



You know what Terps -- that's a bunch of bull -- it's totally relevant, and WIlliams is also a first round talent. You are only saying it's irrelevant because you have nothing to really refute here. Might as well just say the facts aren't relevant to prove your point.


Draft position is only relevant for the salary paid for the first contract.

After that, it means absolutely nothing for future contract setting.

If it meant something, why did the Jets only get a 3rd and 5th round pick?
RE: The $15-$18M Williams figured to get  
bw in dc : 1/14/2020 4:12 pm : link
In comment 14779077 Go Terps said:
Quote:
Can pay for 5-6 players on the secondary free agent market. I think that's where we need to be active - signings like Golden and Remmers, both of which made sense - to supplement the players we draft.


At the point, $15M would be a bargain based on where this could go...
RE: The $15-$18M Williams figured to get  
section125 : 1/14/2020 4:13 pm : link
In comment 14779077 Go Terps said:
Quote:
Can pay for 5-6 players on the secondary free agent market. I think that's where we need to be active - signings like Golden and Remmers, both of which made sense - to supplement the players we draft.


That is a great way to look at it. We can get a bunch of second level players so we can continue to scream at the TVs on Sunday afternoons.
But then again, maybe this coaching staff when assembled will be able to make a silk purse out of a sow's ear or 6.
RE: I like these nicknames  
Klaatu : 1/14/2020 4:13 pm : link
In comment 14779047 cosmicj said:
Quote:
Resume...

Game of Terps...

This debate goes round and round. But at least you can smile at these.


I've also called GoT a "parsimonious potato-head," and I usually add a Scrooge McDuck gif from time to time when addressing him.

It's all in fun, though.
RE: The defense..  
bw in dc : 1/14/2020 4:14 pm : link
In comment 14778923 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
as a whole is awful, so you shouldn't try to retain good players??



We should. So let's consider re-signing Golden. A player with a coveted skill.

LW is a redundancy. We already have multiple guys who can do what he does.

actually we were 28th in spending on D  
ron mexico : 1/14/2020 4:14 pm : link
didn't even get out money's worth
Link - ( New Window )
RE: RE: RE: Where Williams was drafted is irrelevant  
gidiefor : Mod : 1/14/2020 4:14 pm : link
In comment 14779057 Go Terps said:
Quote:

I pointed out facts above - Williams didn't make much difference against Dallas or a crippled Philly team.

The Giants defense was a joke this season. I can't imagine paying anyone on it a premium free agent contract.

I come back to this: A money for B players is bad business.


Ok -- let's look at the facts: the defense sucked this year because our rookie CBs got targeted, and gave up a ton of plays this year at both critical and non-critical junctures. Also our LB corps was mostly a joke. The Defensive line was the strong point of the defense, and it improved when Williams came on board. For the most part, it could not be run on and it got excellent penetration.

It's disingenuous to say Williams had no impact in the Dallas or Philly game when he had excellent impact in both games. You want to look at the problems in those games - you are reaching when say WIlliams had no impact.
RE: RE: The $15-$18M Williams figured to get  
Go Terps : 1/14/2020 4:19 pm : link
In comment 14779093 section125 said:
Quote:
In comment 14779077 Go Terps said:


Quote:


Can pay for 5-6 players on the secondary free agent market. I think that's where we need to be active - signings like Golden and Remmers, both of which made sense - to supplement the players we draft.



That is a great way to look at it. We can get a bunch of second level players so we can continue to scream at the TVs on Sunday afternoons.
But then again, maybe this coaching staff when assembled will be able to make a silk purse out of a sow's ear or 6.


Roster depth and cap fluidity are keys to long term sustained success. Make them a matter of policy and over time the roster should improve AND be easily modifiable to the needs of a given season.

Getting married to overpriced players like Williams figured to be does the opposite. We should have learned that with Vernon and Jenkins, but it appears what's past is prologue.
For the most part, it could not be run on?  
ron mexico : 1/14/2020 4:23 pm : link
which part was that?

How about when the fucking cardinals ran it down our throats?

We gave up 1800 yards rushing, 13th worst in the league.
We gave up 19 rushing Tds. 5th worst in the league.

We has a few games where our run D played a good game



To gidie's point on LBs  
Jimmy Googs : 1/14/2020 4:28 pm : link
if you haven't watched the Giant promo video on "Why We Will Back Up The Brinks-Truck For LW" on an earlier thread, go do so.

However, mostly key in on Alec Olgetree and watch this chucklehead diagnose plays at LB.

Its comical...
They will have enough cap space to do both and fortunately Mara  
Eric on Li : 1/14/2020 4:34 pm : link
said they learned from 2016 that they don't want to overdo it on big $ free agents (which should be music to everyone's ears).

Between Gettleman saying he wants to bring $20m into the regular season and Mara's comments, I think we are looking at a bunch of lower/mid level FA signings with experience in the Patriots way of doing things like Van Noy, Logan Ryan, etc.

I think that would be a very prudent way to go about adding depth and I don't think tagging Williams is at all averse to that. I'd much rather tag Williams and let Golden go, and hopefully get a good comp pick for him if someone overpays.
RE: RE: RE: The $15-$18M Williams figured to get  
gidiefor : Mod : 1/14/2020 4:36 pm : link
In comment 14779110 Go Terps said:
Quote:

Roster depth and cap fluidity are keys to long term sustained success. Make them a matter of policy and over time the roster should improve AND be easily modifiable to the needs of a given season.

Getting married to overpriced players like Williams figured to be does the opposite. We should have learned that with Vernon and Jenkins, but it appears what's past is prologue.


Again -- you are using that word overpriced without defining it -- I have argued that the market sets the price -- you have conveniently ignored that in context. Also your depth and fluidity speech is an oversimplification of roster building. If this were true, why would Belichick sign free Agents (which he does), and he is hailed a genius.

You have to use all the tools in the tool bag to build a roster. That's what all the great do. And if you have a conviction you go with it. There is no one set way to build a roster.

The Giants are in the process of building depth. Two drafts, and one to come is insufficient to build adequate depth with. Too many weak free agents is also not going to supply you with sufficient talent. If you are advocating bringing in multiple players like Remmers I think that's incredibly weak and short-sighted. And to use you analysis above Remmers did not help the Giants at all last season. Davis was also wildly undisciplined giving up penalties at very inopportune times during games. THese are hardly model talents to build a team with - they are only crap shoots.

If there is any argument to be made it is that you cannot rely on only roster building via Free Agency -- that doesn't mean you shouldn't bring in FAs that will help the team.

The fact is that opposed to Remmers and Golden --- Williams was a stabilizing influence on the team playing very consistently in the Giants games he played in. You certainly cannot say that about either Remmers or Golden.
Williams had a stabilizing influence?  
Go Terps : 1/14/2020 4:45 pm : link
That's funny, because I saw a defense that surrendered 30+ points in 5 of the 8 games he played. I didn't see anything stabilized.
RE: Williams had a stabilizing influence?  
gidiefor : Mod : 1/14/2020 4:48 pm : link
In comment 14779158 Go Terps said:
Quote:
That's funny, because I saw a defense that surrendered 30+ points in 5 of the 8 games he played. I didn't see anything stabilized.


Yes exactly -- because Remmers was a turnstyle and Golden was giving up penalties -- so let's get some more of those guys to help build the roster
So...  
Brown_Hornet : 1/14/2020 4:50 pm : link
...according to those that complain about Williams and Williams-like situations, there is also no reason why a great DC would want to come here and coach this motley crew.

When solid talent is brought in, it's too much $ or draft capital.
When more affordable guys are brought in, it's a waste...they're bums.

Well which is it fellers, you want we should freeze, or get down on the ground?

I guess, y'all pretty much gahdamned perfect ain't cha?!

RE: RE: Williams had a stabilizing influence?  
Gatorade Dunk : 1/14/2020 4:50 pm : link
In comment 14779163 gidiefor said:
Quote:
In comment 14779158 Go Terps said:


Quote:


That's funny, because I saw a defense that surrendered 30+ points in 5 of the 8 games he played. I didn't see anything stabilized.



Yes exactly -- because Remmers was a turnstyle and Golden was giving up penalties -- so let's get some more of those guys to help build the roster

Is the best selling point for giving LW a big contract "hey, at least he doesn't suck like Remmers or most of DG's FA acquisitions"?
Here are the offensive rushing stats...  
bw in dc : 1/14/2020 4:52 pm : link
of the teams we played while LW was here:

Jets - 31st
Chi - 29th
Pack - 18th
Phil - 11th
Mia - 23rd
Wash - 30th
Phil - 11th

So it's not like we were playing teams who were rushing juggernauts.

And in the two games we won, against Miami and Washington, Miami had 122 rushing (season avg 72) and Washington had 80 (season avg 98.9).

Dumbest trade ever, still.  
trueblueinpw : 1/14/2020 4:59 pm : link
I couldnít care less what LW gets in free agency, but this was a stupid trade. Iím still waiting for the first reasonable and intelligent argument for trading draft picks for a free agent on a team with zero chance to make the playoffs. There has been no good explanation for this trade because none exist.

The juice was worth the squeeze? Moronic.
Itís about allocating resources  
ajr2456 : 1/14/2020 5:09 pm : link
Players with a skill set like Williams are readily available. Thereís multiple in every draft, spending two picks and $18 million is a poor allocation of resources. Heís never been elite.
RE: Dumbest trade ever, still.  
bw in dc : 1/14/2020 5:10 pm : link
In comment 14779183 trueblueinpw said:
Quote:
I couldnít care less what LW gets in free agency, but this was a stupid trade. Iím still waiting for the first reasonable and intelligent argument for trading draft picks for a free agent on a team with zero chance to make the playoffs. There has been no good explanation for this trade because none exist.

The juice was worth the squeeze? Moronic.


Some people find it reasonable to give up a 3rd and a 5th, despite Mara claiming we need to build through the draft, to have the right to franchise a player who was once a first round draft choice and has produced modest stats.
RE: RE: RE: Williams had a stabilizing influence?  
aGiantGuy : 1/14/2020 5:11 pm : link
In comment 14779167 Gatorade Dunk said:
Quote:
In comment 14779163 gidiefor said:


Quote:


In comment 14779158 Go Terps said:


Quote:


That's funny, because I saw a defense that surrendered 30+ points in 5 of the 8 games he played. I didn't see anything stabilized.



Yes exactly -- because Remmers was a turnstyle and Golden was giving up penalties -- so let's get some more of those guys to help build the roster


Is the best selling point for giving LW a big contract "hey, at least he doesn't suck like Remmers or most of DG's FA acquisitions"?



The selling point is the strengths and weaknesses of the player, realize that he wasnít drafted 6th overall because of his sack numbers at USC. I see him and I see a 6í5 dude that easily extends his long arms.

I see football talent, and at year 5 heís still pretty raw. Iíd rather have him then lose him if weíre actually going to contend for a Super Bowl in the near future. You let him walk because of money in a year where we can easily have 95 mil in cap space and I canít foresee us contending any time soon.

Iím sorry, we are in Daniel Jones rookie season, itís full speed ahead in terms of talent acquisition, we donít need rookies, we need to plug gaps in free agency and continue to build through the draft. If we lose Leonard Williams and overpay a C player, or settle for BJ Hill, Iíll know we are a lost franchise.
RE: Dumbest trade ever, still.  
Jimmy Googs : 1/14/2020 5:14 pm : link
In comment 14779183 trueblueinpw said:
Quote:
I couldnít care less what LW gets in free agency, but this was a stupid trade. Iím still waiting for the first reasonable and intelligent argument for trading draft picks for a free agent on a team with zero chance to make the playoffs. There has been no good explanation for this trade because none exist.

The juice was worth the squeeze? Moronic.


cosmic and fmic gave you the juice explanations above.

How much more fruit do you need...

This isn't..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 1/14/2020 5:41 pm : link
a winning formula nor sustainable:

Quote:
The $15-$18M Williams figured to get
Go Terps : 4:06 pm : link : reply
Can pay for 5-6 players on the secondary free agent market. I think that's where we need to be active - signings like Golden and Remmers, both of which made sense - to supplement the players we draft.


I get having strong drafts to go on the cheap for players. What exactly do you think you're going get for $3M per year? And let's say a guy produces, like Golden. Then what, you're looking at $10M.

I know you want 53 guys on a rookie contract in your ideal way to build a winner, but stocking a team with a bunch of second contract guys getting $3M is laughable. You'll get a DT with 0.5 sacks who sucks against the run!

We are still hearing about some of the failed players DG signed who basically amounted to 1 year cap hits. That's par for the course when trying to roster fill with guys making peanuts. Look at how GB improved their D this year. Look at signings KC made to fill the D. In FA you are going to have to pay some for actual quality.

But then again - I'm seeing a lot of posts acting as if williams is pedestrian and didn't impact things, so I'm not sure I really trust takes on cap management either.
FMiC, the question isn't whether or not Williams is pedestrian.  
Klaatu : 1/14/2020 5:51 pm : link
The question is, is he elite? If the answer is no, then he shouldn't be paid as if he was.

In my view he's an above-average player, and he deserves to be paid accordingly. He's better than pedestrian, but he's hardly elite.

That's my story and I'm sticking to it.
Opposing story would be free agency results in bidding up  
Jimmy Googs : 1/14/2020 6:10 pm : link
for assets based on supply and demand, albeit not a truly efficient market.

And, of course, the fact that a few drunken sailor-GMs that are desperate in certain years at certain positions (example: DG and Solder) adjust the "market" even moreso, mostly up.

LW is going to be targeted by at least one of the drunken sailors and its going to cause Gettleman to have to up the ante because he committed himself to this deal months ago. Do you really believe DG folds here?

But again, keep hoping this ends well for the NY Giants because that's akin to how the GM runs this franchise...



RE: Opposing story would be free agency results in bidding up  
aGiantGuy : 1/14/2020 6:40 pm : link
In comment 14779289 Jimmy Googs said:
Quote:
for assets based on supply and demand, albeit not a truly efficient market.

And, of course, the fact that a few drunken sailor-GMs that are desperate in certain years at certain positions (example: DG and Solder) adjust the "market" even moreso, mostly up.

LW is going to be targeted by at least one of the drunken sailors and its going to cause Gettleman to have to up the ante because he committed himself to this deal months ago. Do you really believe DG folds here?

But again, keep hoping this ends well for the NY Giants because that's akin to how the GM runs this franchise...




He was paid 14 mil this year, he was worth that. If his cap hit is 17 mil next year, Iím confident he will be worth that as well. No hope involved. When you have Ogletree and mayo putting out the film they did, youíre not going to able to see the impact Williams made clearly. That doesnít mean Williams didnít play well. Elite players have 20mil+ cap hits, Leonard isnít getting paid as an elite player, heís getting paid like a 25 year old very good could be great player.
exactly  
Bill2 : 1/14/2020 6:47 pm : link
the marker we are using for market pay for a very good but not great DT is rear view mirror.

The actual market rate we need to use as a comp is the post 2020 FA bonanza ...because the rate in 2021 and beyond is only higher. Hence...the real jarring news will be what it takes to keep a DTomlinson in a post 2020 market.

They have a little slack given DJ's first contract and its usually better to improve a differential strength of the team ( asymmetric major unit advantages create crimps in the other teams abilities) than overspend to bring a unit up to average ( and the center of the D is a key to capturing positive multiplier effects) but man they have no LBs and OL and unconvincing DBs. Overwhelming number of needs

The structure of the contract may be more important than the initial facing numbers.
Have to invest for faster/more athletic talent  
Jimmy Googs : 1/14/2020 6:54 pm : link
in the middle of the field - Inside LB, Slot Corner, and Safety.

If that means we lose out on the Leonard Williams sweepstakes, so be it...
It certainly seems to me that you can get run stuffing DL in the draft  
ron mexico : 1/14/2020 7:37 pm : link
Look at the list of guys we got in the draft, not with premium picks who filled that role admirably

Lawrence - mid first round
Tomlinson - mid/late 2nd round
Jay Bromley (just kidding)
Hankins - Mid 2nd round
Linval - Mid 2nd round
Jay Alford - Mid/late 3rd round

Ya know who likes Leonard Williams? PFF, that's who!  
Klaatu : 1/14/2020 8:19 pm : link
The misleading sack numbers of the 2020 free agents

Quote:
UNDERVALUED

DI Leonard Williams, New York Giants
No player had a bigger deference between his pressure rate rank and sack rate rank than Williams, who split the year between the Giants and the New York Jets prior to his trade. Among 87 interior defenders with 200 or more pass-rushing snaps, Williams ranked 13th in pressure rate at 11.3% but his one sack in 424 pass-rushing snaps put him near the bottom of the list in sack rate. On the other hand, Williams led the position with 19 quarterback hits. A few fractions of a second faster on several of those plays and that sack total looks a whole lot more respectable.

Considering the draft capital that the Giants gave up acquiring Williams, it seems likely that theyíll retain him moving forward. Heís always been a better run defender than a pass-rusher, but heís certainly better in the passing game than the one sack he was able to produce in 2019. Now the Giants just need to figure out how to balance all the young talent they have at interior defensive line if they re-sign Williams.



Link - ( New Window )
RE: It certainly seems to me that you can get run stuffing DL in the draft  
bw in dc : 1/14/2020 8:43 pm : link
In comment 14779428 ron mexico said:
Quote:
Look at the list of guys we got in the draft, not with premium picks who filled that role admirably

Lawrence - mid first round
Tomlinson - mid/late 2nd round
Jay Bromley (just kidding)
Hankins - Mid 2nd round
Linval - Mid 2nd round
Jay Alford - Mid/late 3rd round


Exactly. There are even more examples from other teams:

Jurrell Casey, 3rd round; Chris Jones, 2nd round; Grady Jarrett, 5th round; DJ Reader, 5th round; Michael Pierce, UDFA; Brandon Williams, 3rd round, Shelby Harris, 7th round...

It's become a commoditized position. Lots of big guys available to eat up space...
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