1) There was a trade market for LW. Someone was going to give the Jets draft picks for him during the season and signed or tagged him before he hit free agency. LW was NEVER GOING TO HIT FREE AGENCY. If you want him on your team, you give up picks. (See the Dee Ford transaction between KC and SF last season.)
2) The Giants have plenty of negotiating leverage. It's called a tag (whether that iis one of the two types of franchise tags or the transition tag is a tactical question). LW has every incentive to sign a long-term deal that is likely to include $40M+ of guaranteed cash vs playing our the 2020 season on a tag. The tag is difficult for the teams to manage only if they don't have a lot of cap room. The Giants have plenty. The statement that Gettleman has no leverage is simply FALSE.
3) The contract per year is likely to avg in the $17-18mm range. Your opinion may differ from the Giants, who surely knew what the market was when they made the trade. The Atlanta DT who just signed a big contract last season (Grady Jarrett) will serve as a comp and the starting point for negotiations. The 2020 cap hit will likely be much lower than that, although I'm interested in seeing if the Giants decide to front load the cap hit for LW given their cap situation.
4) My fearless prediction is that the 2020 FA market will be out of control with salaries escalating. Too many buyers; too few quality players. Most teams have oodles of cap space. I assume DG knows this and jumped on the chance to get a good young player like LW on a talent-poor squad.
RE: Stop valuating Williams on sacks, its not his role Â
Might as well evaluate Darus Slayton on rushing yards
You're missing the point (as usual). He's going to get paid like an elite DE who has pass-rushing skills. It's about resource/cap allocation, and Williams is very likely to represent a poor cap value from this point forward.
I'm not sure what's complicated about that other than the fact that the average fan is basically innumerate.
RE: RE: RE: I hated the trade, but LW is a good player, Â
So we're supposed to pay 10-13 a year for a player to plug a gap? That's what he should get big bucks for?
Do some of you guys know anything about football? "Plug a gap"?? You should watch the playoff games to see how important stopping the run has been for teams like SF and TENN. Clogging the middle has been a mainstay for lots of successful teams, including our own SB teams.
Let me guess, Williams "should get the big bucks" for sacks?? Reading this thread, it becomes blatantly obvious who knows what Williams role should be and who doesn't.
Controlling the LOS is a major goal of most teams. Minimizing that just makes one sound like a blithering idiot.
The cap is a finite resource, wouldn't you agree?
You want to take the indignant stance on it, be my guest. But if you're going to do that, put a number on it - you know LW's proper role so well, what do you think is the appropriate price tag for that sort of player?
Looking forward to you avoiding answering that question.
It's worth pointing out that currently of the top 4 2020 cap hits Â
for DLs, 3 of the 4 are for DTs (Cox, Donald, Dareus) and only is for a DE (Frank Clark). Team's financial allocations on the line seem to be drifting towards interior players.
I know that will change somewhat with free agency, but it's worth being aware of.
if you are going to float shit like this out there, talking about his half sack effort is pretty damn hypocritical:
Quote:
I'm not sure what's complicated about that other than the fact that the average fan is basically innumerate.
Hard to understand slamming other fans when you are looking at sack totals. I mean Lorenzo Carter had 4.5 sacks so he must be world's better than Williams, right??
1) There was a trade market for LW. Someone was going to give the Jets draft picks for him during the season and signed or tagged him before he hit free agency. LW was NEVER GOING TO HIT FREE AGENCY. If you want him on your team, you give up picks. (See the Dee Ford transaction between KC and SF last season.)
Sure, but the question is, was LW worth that allocation of resources? He's a good player, but he's not Dee Ford.
See Jarrett as a comp. The $17-18M range is likely.
He's not getting the $20+M that top "pass rushing" DE's will demand.
And you believe that $17-18M is an appropriate cap number for LW?
I agree that's where his contract is headed. But I see that as overpaid for his role, and I get the sense that you might feel like it's in line with his true value.
I do take back what I said about you avoiding answering my question since you had obviously posted this by the time I even said that - my apologies.
if you are going to float shit like this out there, talking about his half sack effort is pretty damn hypocritical:
Quote:
I'm not sure what's complicated about that other than the fact that the average fan is basically innumerate.
Hard to understand slamming other fans when you are looking at sack totals. I mean Lorenzo Carter had 4.5 sacks so he must be world's better than Williams, right??
No, but what's Carter's cap number? And how many draft picks did we trade to acquire him for 8 games before he became a free agent?
You're too smart of a poster to allow yourself to look like a fool for defending this trade, but go for it.
I would avoid labelling trade supporters "fools." The debate comes down to a pretty complex issue of the value of a 3-4 DE in that scheme. I think that's something reasonable people can disagree on.
but some of you guys have hammered this home as a fireable offense and have really blown it out of proportion.
You know where it becomes a terrible trade? If Williams walks. If he's here and the Giants build a top line, that trade will look a lot differently.
I get the point of view that a non-contending team shouldn't give up draft picks for a rental, but cosmic's post above outlines that Williams was unlikely to hit the open market - what if that scenario was true?
I want the Giants to have as many good players as possible, and Williams (if he plays like he did for us) is going to make the team better.
That people think fall just short of being a firable offense.
Well add them all up and you get 9 wins in two years, which I guess also isn’t also a firable offense.
You guys make it sound like he inherited a consistent contender and watched as Rome burned.
You can look at a lot of bad teams and question moves made. Even call them fireable offenses. I'm sure making McKinnon one of the highest paid RB's was a good move by Lynch, right? Having the most cap dollars assigned to the RB position in a passing league? Signing Sherman who many thought was declining?
Meanwhile, many moves the Browns made last season were applauded.
You know who fired their GM for "fireable offenses"? Cleveland. And they aren't any better off now and they will repeat the cycle over again.
I really don't know if Gettleman will be successful here, but many of you are certain he won't.
The "fireable offense" statements are always sensational Â
if they had more than one guy that could rush from the edge and collapse the pocket, thus making the QB step up and avoid the rush..ya know...like how most "elite" DT get sacks in the NFL.
if they had more than one guy that could rush from the edge and collapse the pocket, thus making the QB step up and avoid the rush..ya know...like how most "elite" DT get sacks in the NFL.
Maybe, and just maybe some other lineman's sack total would double in that same environment, but he only commands 1/3 of the price of LW...
if they had more than one guy that could rush from the edge and collapse the pocket, thus making the QB step up and avoid the rush..ya know...like how most "elite" DT get sacks in the NFL.
Maybe, and just maybe some other lineman's sack total would double in that same environment, but he only commands 1/3 of the price of LW...
I hear you on that - however - that same guy is also going to have to be as stout against the run as LW...a skill at which I would argue LW is elite...all for 1/3 of the price.
but if that's the market rate for a player of his caliber, that's what you have to pay. You can't just be looking at stats, you have to see his overall impact on defense.
I trust Gettleman when it comes to Defensive Tackles -- he knows them and places a high value on them
Tomlinson, Williams and Lawrence are a major trio to have to deal with on the Dline -- and if they had some horses behind them the Defense would start looking like a terrorist organization to opposing teams
I trust Gettleman when it comes to Defensive Tackles -- he knows them and places a high value on them
Tomlinson, Williams and Lawrence are a major trio to have to deal with on the Dline -- and if they had some horses behind them the Defense would start looking like a terrorist organization to opposing teams
That's the point that I don't know why others aren't seeing it. Gettleman has been trying to build the lines. He's failed thus far on the OL, but the DL is coming along really well. And yet in making that unit one of the best on the team, he still takes crap for it. If the Giants have an elite DL and pay one of those guys $18M a year, that isn't really expensive
The pass rush (if we're counting the edge guys as the DL) is still poor. And before we give the DL credit in the run game, we may want to consider that Dallas and Philly did whatever they wanted in the run game. In the second Philly game the Eagles had a MASH unit, but that didn't stop Boston Scott from looking like LaDainian Tomlinson.
And with regards to Williams, if they're (foolishly) paying him $18M is that really wise considering that:
1. he isn't an elite player; and
2. we'd still be in need of an edge rusher, which is typically more expensive
Trading for Williams was inexplicable. Overpaying him would only compound the error.
All he had to do is use a first round pick, acquired by trading away one of our most talented players, and the trade away some more picks to have the chance to pay another guy 18 mil a year.
Maybe if he trades away Jones and Saquon, he will be able to fix the back end.
The pass rush (if we're counting the edge guys as the DL) is still poor. And before we give the DL credit in the run game, we may want to consider that Dallas and Philly did whatever they wanted in the run game. In the second Philly game the Eagles had a MASH unit, but that didn't stop Boston Scott from looking like LaDainian Tomlinson.
And with regards to Williams, if they're (foolishly) paying him $18M is that really wise considering that:
1. he isn't an elite player; and
2. we'd still be in need of an edge rusher, which is typically more expensive
Trading for Williams was inexplicable. Overpaying him would only compound the error.
How can you say a 25 year old player isn’t elite? Barrett wasn’t elite last year either. 2. We can afford it.
In regards to the Eagles and cowboys doing whatever they wanted, we ran an aggressive 1 gap scheme. That means our 3 do accounted for three gaps. A,a,b,b,c,c,and d for 1 tight end. That’s 7 gaps my brother, 3 d lineman cannot cover them all. Paying our d line is about shortening the space of those other 4 gaps making it easier for them to be filled, creating the foundation of a dominant defense. That is the purpose.
but its not like we aren't paying top dollar for our assets in that area.
Tomlinson (drafted by Reese in 2nd round by the way not DG); Lawrence who was a 1st round pick; and Williams who DG is about to break the bank on after also giving draft picks. That is a lot of attention for a team that still needs to find someway to get the QB on the ground more often.
So I am not sure Gettleman is exceeding any expectations of roster building with this unit thus far, do you?
That is the kind of move you make when you are closer to competing. I like the big cat. I think he has exceptional physical talent that has yet to be tapped correctly. I do see potential. I think Williams played well for us.
If it goes past 13 million/per we should let him walk. I think we can get someone almost as good for 4-5 million/year with similar production that was not a high 1st round draft pick. !7 million is paying him for his draft position rather than his production.
I do like the player though. Not trash, nowhere close.
RE: I think everybody wants a stout Defensive Line Â
but its not like we aren't paying top dollar for our assets in that area.
Tomlinson (drafted by Reese in 2nd round by the way not DG); Lawrence who was a 1st round pick; and Williams who DG is about to break the bank on after also giving draft picks. That is a lot of attention for a team that still needs to find someway to get the QB on the ground more often.
So I am not sure Gettleman is exceeding any expectations of roster building with this unit thus far, do you?
I mean everyone has different philosophies on how to build a team. After Denver won the Super Bowl they took a more analytical approach, pay the olb and the cb’s, let the interior dL and ilb’s walk. They lost Malik Jackson and Danny trevathan and literally that defense just fell apart game by game. Resetting the line of scrimmage isn’t analytical, there are no stats for it(yet) but it is absolutely important.
He’s young. Sign him. No matter who you sign in tier 1, they are going to be paid a lot. If you don’t want to spend big, then concentrate on fill-in/situational players, imv
but its not like we aren't paying top dollar for our assets in that area.
Tomlinson (drafted by Reese in 2nd round by the way not DG); Lawrence who was a 1st round pick; and Williams who DG is about to break the bank on after also giving draft picks. That is a lot of attention for a team that still needs to find someway to get the QB on the ground more often.
So I am not sure Gettleman is exceeding any expectations of roster building with this unit thus far, do you?
I mean everyone has different philosophies on how to build a team. After Denver won the Super Bowl they took a more analytical approach, pay the olb and the cb’s, let the interior dL and ilb’s walk. They lost Malik Jackson and Danny trevathan and literally that defense just fell apart game by game. Resetting the line of scrimmage isn’t analytical, there are no stats for it(yet) but it is absolutely important.
This isn't philosophical nor really analytical. We all watch the games, we see that the run defense got better in some of the games in the second half of the year, we see LW holding his own if not more. No question.
My comments were centered around the amount of value DG already placed on grabbing LW, the investment already on that line, and the most important fact that the Defense as a whole is awful.
Need to restructure the defensive scheme, players, and think thru future investment requirements on pass rushers, LBs and Safeties.
And breaking the bank on LW and using draft collateral to precipitate the process was poorly thought out by a GM who seemingly executes this rebuild on the fly versus a cohesive plan...
Is overpaying giving someone what the market will bear?
Williams is a first round level talent. He was picked up going into his prime contract years for a 3 this year and a 4 next year if he signs.
The Giants - if they sign him with have added a 1, a 2, and a 1, and 4 this year, and the second 1 is of a proven value making the Defensive line quite formidable.
I would argue that it is desirable to pay what the market will bear to keep those assets, bolstering the defense.
I think it is a red herring to argue that this is overpaying.
People act like we are signing a career journeyman to be paid at the very top of his position. Just look at the number of posters who mock his sack totals. To many, not getting sacks is indicative that he isn't making an impact.
If you can get a guy at market value who can anchor a position group, you do it. Just like if solder was a stud, he'd be worth the $$$
People act like we are signing a career journeyman to be paid at the very top of his position. Just look at the number of posters who mock his sack totals. To many, not getting sacks is indicative that he isn't making an impact.
If you can get a guy at market value who can anchor a position group, you do it. Just like if solder was a stud, he'd be worth the $$$
Spotrac.com puts his market value at $8.2 million per year. I'd be willing to go ten or eleven million, maybe even twelve. Anything more is insane, and yet DG will probably do it to save face. Just look at the video. It's PR spin, pure and simple.
I dispute the whole idea that spending is fungible across positions Â
You can't shift cap capacity from one player to another one at a different priority position just like that. You want an edge rusher at a talent level similar to Williams? Good luck finding one and, if there is one available by lucky chance, you will be in for a bidding war with the auction winner likely paying too much.
Most likely what happens is that, if Williams leaves, you are left paying a lot of money to a lesser player. One like Nate Solder.
The whole conceptual basis for this debate is flawed.
Give him a 13 million dollar contract and tell him thank you for your contribution.
He just made $14M this past season. You think he's taking a pay cut with $1.5B of aggregate cap room available leaguewide this offseason?
Not happening. His price tag is going to start at around $16M AAV, probably ends up with something approaching $18M or more.
2) The Giants have plenty of negotiating leverage. It's called a tag (whether that iis one of the two types of franchise tags or the transition tag is a tactical question). LW has every incentive to sign a long-term deal that is likely to include $40M+ of guaranteed cash vs playing our the 2020 season on a tag. The tag is difficult for the teams to manage only if they don't have a lot of cap room. The Giants have plenty. The statement that Gettleman has no leverage is simply FALSE.
3) The contract per year is likely to avg in the $17-18mm range. Your opinion may differ from the Giants, who surely knew what the market was when they made the trade. The Atlanta DT who just signed a big contract last season (Grady Jarrett) will serve as a comp and the starting point for negotiations. The 2020 cap hit will likely be much lower than that, although I'm interested in seeing if the Giants decide to front load the cap hit for LW given their cap situation.
4) My fearless prediction is that the 2020 FA market will be out of control with salaries escalating. Too many buyers; too few quality players. Most teams have oodles of cap space. I assume DG knows this and jumped on the chance to get a good young player like LW on a talent-poor squad.
You're missing the point (as usual). He's going to get paid like an elite DE who has pass-rushing skills. It's about resource/cap allocation, and Williams is very likely to represent a poor cap value from this point forward.
I'm not sure what's complicated about that other than the fact that the average fan is basically innumerate.
Quote:
In comment 14777754 Section331 said:
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and anyone thinking he will sign for $15 mill or less is crazy. I wouldn’t want to pay any more than that, but I’m pretty sure DG will.
Williams will name his price. DG can't let him go... he'll look dumber than he already does on this deal.
Then LW will revert to his former unimpressive play, he was just playing for his contract this year.
His half sack was his contract year effort?
See Jarrett as a comp. The $17-18M range is likely.
He's not getting the $20+M that top "pass rushing" DE's will demand.
Quote:
So we're supposed to pay 10-13 a year for a player to plug a gap? That's what he should get big bucks for?
Do some of you guys know anything about football? "Plug a gap"?? You should watch the playoff games to see how important stopping the run has been for teams like SF and TENN. Clogging the middle has been a mainstay for lots of successful teams, including our own SB teams.
Let me guess, Williams "should get the big bucks" for sacks?? Reading this thread, it becomes blatantly obvious who knows what Williams role should be and who doesn't.
Controlling the LOS is a major goal of most teams. Minimizing that just makes one sound like a blithering idiot.
The cap is a finite resource, wouldn't you agree?
You want to take the indignant stance on it, be my guest. But if you're going to do that, put a number on it - you know LW's proper role so well, what do you think is the appropriate price tag for that sort of player?
Looking forward to you avoiding answering that question.
I know that will change somewhat with free agency, but it's worth being aware of.
Hard to understand slamming other fans when you are looking at sack totals. I mean Lorenzo Carter had 4.5 sacks so he must be world's better than Williams, right??
Sure, but the question is, was LW worth that allocation of resources? He's a good player, but he's not Dee Ford.
See Jarrett as a comp. The $17-18M range is likely.
He's not getting the $20+M that top "pass rushing" DE's will demand.
And you believe that $17-18M is an appropriate cap number for LW?
I agree that's where his contract is headed. But I see that as overpaid for his role, and I get the sense that you might feel like it's in line with his true value.
I do take back what I said about you avoiding answering my question since you had obviously posted this by the time I even said that - my apologies.
Posted after I already answered the question.
Want to talk sack totals again?
I do think that's a fair value if he's able to anchor the line and stop the run.
Quote:
I'm not sure what's complicated about that other than the fact that the average fan is basically innumerate.
Hard to understand slamming other fans when you are looking at sack totals. I mean Lorenzo Carter had 4.5 sacks so he must be world's better than Williams, right??
No, but what's Carter's cap number? And how many draft picks did we trade to acquire him for 8 games before he became a free agent?
You're too smart of a poster to allow yourself to look like a fool for defending this trade, but go for it.
Quote:
... And collapses the pocket, I don't care if he gets a single sack all dam season.
Give him a 13 million dollar contract and tell him thank you for your contribution.
He just made $14M this past season. You think he's taking a pay cut with $1.5B of aggregate cap room available leaguewide this offseason?
Not happening. His price tag is going to start at around $16M AAV, probably ends up with something approaching $18M or more.
Clearly I don't follow the $.
That said, the teams that dominate the LOS win more games.
He is a very good football player.
You know where it becomes a terrible trade? If Williams walks. If he's here and the Giants build a top line, that trade will look a lot differently.
I get the point of view that a non-contending team shouldn't give up draft picks for a rental, but cosmic's post above outlines that Williams was unlikely to hit the open market - what if that scenario was true?
I want the Giants to have as many good players as possible, and Williams (if he plays like he did for us) is going to make the team better.
This is an example of what not to do when you are a GM of a team in need of a restructuring.
Its also what not to defend if you are fan...
Well add them all up and you get 9 wins in two years, which I guess also isn’t also a firable offense.
Well add them all up and you get 9 wins in two years, which I guess also isn’t also a firable offense.
You guys make it sound like he inherited a consistent contender and watched as Rome burned.
You can look at a lot of bad teams and question moves made. Even call them fireable offenses. I'm sure making McKinnon one of the highest paid RB's was a good move by Lynch, right? Having the most cap dollars assigned to the RB position in a passing league? Signing Sherman who many thought was declining?
Meanwhile, many moves the Browns made last season were applauded.
You know who fired their GM for "fireable offenses"? Cleveland. And they aren't any better off now and they will repeat the cycle over again.
I really don't know if Gettleman will be successful here, but many of you are certain he won't.
But if the range of outcomes on a LW Deal is:
LOW: Terrible if he walks
HIGH: Makes us a Better Team albeit at a very high cost because we win the bidding war
then I would tell you the GM of this restructuring team isn't doing his job very well.
Please tell me there are players that make the team better that do not have such downside risk we have to take on. Please?
Exactly.
The lack of football acumen by some on here is mind numbing .
Maybe, and just maybe some other lineman's sack total would double in that same environment, but he only commands 1/3 of the price of LW...
is he signed?
Quote:
if they had more than one guy that could rush from the edge and collapse the pocket, thus making the QB step up and avoid the rush..ya know...like how most "elite" DT get sacks in the NFL.
Maybe, and just maybe some other lineman's sack total would double in that same environment, but he only commands 1/3 of the price of LW...
I hear you on that - however - that same guy is also going to have to be as stout against the run as LW...a skill at which I would argue LW is elite...all for 1/3 of the price.
Those guys aren't easy to find.
This is how stupid people sound when they bring up that he only had a half sack this season
Tomlinson, Williams and Lawrence are a major trio to have to deal with on the Dline -- and if they had some horses behind them the Defense would start looking like a terrorist organization to opposing teams
Tomlinson, Williams and Lawrence are a major trio to have to deal with on the Dline -- and if they had some horses behind them the Defense would start looking like a terrorist organization to opposing teams
That's the point that I don't know why others aren't seeing it. Gettleman has been trying to build the lines. He's failed thus far on the OL, but the DL is coming along really well. And yet in making that unit one of the best on the team, he still takes crap for it. If the Giants have an elite DL and pay one of those guys $18M a year, that isn't really expensive
And with regards to Williams, if they're (foolishly) paying him $18M is that really wise considering that:
1. he isn't an elite player; and
2. we'd still be in need of an edge rusher, which is typically more expensive
Trading for Williams was inexplicable. Overpaying him would only compound the error.
All he had to do is use a first round pick, acquired by trading away one of our most talented players, and the trade away some more picks to have the chance to pay another guy 18 mil a year.
Maybe if he trades away Jones and Saquon, he will be able to fix the back end.
And with regards to Williams, if they're (foolishly) paying him $18M is that really wise considering that:
1. he isn't an elite player; and
2. we'd still be in need of an edge rusher, which is typically more expensive
Trading for Williams was inexplicable. Overpaying him would only compound the error.
How can you say a 25 year old player isn’t elite? Barrett wasn’t elite last year either. 2. We can afford it.
In regards to the Eagles and cowboys doing whatever they wanted, we ran an aggressive 1 gap scheme. That means our 3 do accounted for three gaps. A,a,b,b,c,c,and d for 1 tight end. That’s 7 gaps my brother, 3 d lineman cannot cover them all. Paying our d line is about shortening the space of those other 4 gaps making it easier for them to be filled, creating the foundation of a dominant defense. That is the purpose.
Tomlinson (drafted by Reese in 2nd round by the way not DG); Lawrence who was a 1st round pick; and Williams who DG is about to break the bank on after also giving draft picks. That is a lot of attention for a team that still needs to find someway to get the QB on the ground more often.
So I am not sure Gettleman is exceeding any expectations of roster building with this unit thus far, do you?
If it goes past 13 million/per we should let him walk. I think we can get someone almost as good for 4-5 million/year with similar production that was not a high 1st round draft pick. !7 million is paying him for his draft position rather than his production.
I do like the player though. Not trash, nowhere close.
Tomlinson (drafted by Reese in 2nd round by the way not DG); Lawrence who was a 1st round pick; and Williams who DG is about to break the bank on after also giving draft picks. That is a lot of attention for a team that still needs to find someway to get the QB on the ground more often.
So I am not sure Gettleman is exceeding any expectations of roster building with this unit thus far, do you?
I mean everyone has different philosophies on how to build a team. After Denver won the Super Bowl they took a more analytical approach, pay the olb and the cb’s, let the interior dL and ilb’s walk. They lost Malik Jackson and Danny trevathan and literally that defense just fell apart game by game. Resetting the line of scrimmage isn’t analytical, there are no stats for it(yet) but it is absolutely important.
+1
Quote:
but its not like we aren't paying top dollar for our assets in that area.
Tomlinson (drafted by Reese in 2nd round by the way not DG); Lawrence who was a 1st round pick; and Williams who DG is about to break the bank on after also giving draft picks. That is a lot of attention for a team that still needs to find someway to get the QB on the ground more often.
So I am not sure Gettleman is exceeding any expectations of roster building with this unit thus far, do you?
I mean everyone has different philosophies on how to build a team. After Denver won the Super Bowl they took a more analytical approach, pay the olb and the cb’s, let the interior dL and ilb’s walk. They lost Malik Jackson and Danny trevathan and literally that defense just fell apart game by game. Resetting the line of scrimmage isn’t analytical, there are no stats for it(yet) but it is absolutely important.
This isn't philosophical nor really analytical. We all watch the games, we see that the run defense got better in some of the games in the second half of the year, we see LW holding his own if not more. No question.
My comments were centered around the amount of value DG already placed on grabbing LW, the investment already on that line, and the most important fact that the Defense as a whole is awful.
Need to restructure the defensive scheme, players, and think thru future investment requirements on pass rushers, LBs and Safeties.
And breaking the bank on LW and using draft collateral to precipitate the process was poorly thought out by a GM who seemingly executes this rebuild on the fly versus a cohesive plan...
This is how stupid people sound when they bring up that he only had a half sack this season
Uh, no. That's not remotely comparable. And if you genuinely can't see the difference, you have no room to talk about how stupid anyone sounds.
That's some great logic.
That's some great logic.
Retaining good players is fine. Paying them like they're great players is not.
That's some great logic.
Not at the cost of overpaying them, no.
Is overpaying giving someone what the market will bear?
Williams is a first round level talent. He was picked up going into his prime contract years for a 3 this year and a 4 next year if he signs.
The Giants - if they sign him with have added a 1, a 2, and a 1, and 4 this year, and the second 1 is of a proven value making the Defensive line quite formidable.
I would argue that it is desirable to pay what the market will bear to keep those assets, bolstering the defense.
I think it is a red herring to argue that this is overpaying.
People act like we are signing a career journeyman to be paid at the very top of his position. Just look at the number of posters who mock his sack totals. To many, not getting sacks is indicative that he isn't making an impact.
If you can get a guy at market value who can anchor a position group, you do it. Just like if solder was a stud, he'd be worth the $$$
People act like we are signing a career journeyman to be paid at the very top of his position. Just look at the number of posters who mock his sack totals. To many, not getting sacks is indicative that he isn't making an impact.
If you can get a guy at market value who can anchor a position group, you do it. Just like if solder was a stud, he'd be worth the $$$
Spotrac.com puts his market value at $8.2 million per year. I'd be willing to go ten or eleven million, maybe even twelve. Anything more is insane, and yet DG will probably do it to save face. Just look at the video. It's PR spin, pure and simple.
Most likely what happens is that, if Williams leaves, you are left paying a lot of money to a lesser player. One like Nate Solder.
The whole conceptual basis for this debate is flawed.