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A number of key NYG coaching tidbits from NYP

Eric from BBI : Admin : 1/14/2020 10:42 pm
Quote:
Mike Shula, the Giants’ offensive coordinator for two years under Pat Shurmur, interviewed Monday with new coach Joe Judge. He is under strong consideration for a role on the staff, a source told The Post, but the Giants already hired Jerry Schuplinski as quarterbacks coach, which limits the options for Shula.

Judge is a former high school and college quarterback but never coached the position in his special teams background. Schuplinksi worked with Judge on the Patriots’ staff and drew praise from young quarterbacks Jimmy Garoppolo and Jacoby Brissett, now starting for the 49ers and Colts, respectively.

If Shula is the offensive coordinator, it would be an odd sort of promotion because he would resume calling plays.


Quote:
Giants inside linebackers coach Bill McGovern and defensive line coach Gary Emanuel will not be retained, a source said. Former Giants star Antonio Pierce — an assistant coach under Herm Edwards at Arizona State — reportedly is drawing interest in NFL coaching circles and could slide into McGovern’s vacancy.


Quote:
Graham also will be Giants assistant head coach, The Post confirmed, which usually is just a title used to justify a bigger salary. In this case, however, unless the Giants are going to give an equal or higher title to the offensive coordinator, it could be a sign that Graham will be Judge’s top lieutenant.

The Giants’ brass hopes a former head coach will be added to the staff, and Jim Caldwell, Jay Gruden, Jason Garrett and others have been floated as offensive coordinator possibilities. But it is unlikely one of those big names would fall further down the pecking order than the 40-year-old Graham, with one year of coordinator experience.

Shula would better fit the bill.



Giants could keep offensive coordinator Mike Shula in odd scenario - ( New Window )
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I don't know  
darren in pdx : 1/14/2020 10:46 pm : link
how I would feel if Shula was retained, hard to say since he didn't call plays, but would probably mean that Judge liked his interview and feels that he was a positive in Jones's development, I guess.

Though, not knowing anything about Pierce the coach, I'd be excited to have him back on the team if he's drawing that type of interest. Was probably the last very good linebacker the Giants have had.
Justin Tuck on Pierce  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 1/14/2020 10:46 pm : link
Justin Tuck
@JustinTuck
·
1h
Please God tell me @Giants
are hiring him. Unbelievable smart football player. Probably the smartest football player I played with and that is saying a lot
RE: Justin Tuck on Pierce  
BleedBlue : 1/14/2020 10:47 pm : link
In comment 14779687 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
Justin Tuck
@JustinTuck
·
1h
Please God tell me @Giants
are hiring him. Unbelievable smart football player. Probably the smartest football player I played with and that is saying a lot


i can 100% see the giants doing this. the guy knows the LBer position and it could help develop the front 7.
Is Shula the multiple, innovative coach to lead this offense?  
battttles : 1/14/2020 10:51 pm : link
Surely JJ's plan wasn't to just hire this guy?! This is problematic.
I try not to get my hopes up on players and coaches  
5BowlsSoon : 1/14/2020 10:51 pm : link
They usually don’t work out ....

But....I would love pierce too....
No way in hell shoudl Shula be back..  
EricJ : 1/14/2020 10:59 pm : link
we need to dump every coach... period. Maybe keep the strength and conditioning coach but that's it.
Osi chimes in  
FranknWeezer : 1/14/2020 10:59 pm : link
Quote:
OSI @OsiUmenyiora I played with Antonio Pierce. Also played FOR him. At the same time. He will be an outstanding head coach.


Maybe a groundswell of AP’s former teammates pushing for him will convince JJ and the front office to pull the trigger.
RE: No way in hell shoudl Shula be back..  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 1/14/2020 11:02 pm : link
In comment 14779696 EricJ said:
Quote:
we need to dump every coach... period. Maybe keep the strength and conditioning coach but that's it.


They've already announced that two coaches are coming back. You must have missed that.
RE: Osi chimes in  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 1/14/2020 11:04 pm : link
In comment 14779697 FranknWeezer said:
Quote:


Quote:


OSI @OsiUmenyiora I played with Antonio Pierce. Also played FOR him. At the same time. He will be an outstanding head coach.



Maybe a groundswell of AP’s former teammates pushing for him will convince JJ and the front office to pull the trigger.


If Joe Judge is swayed by fan sentiment on who he should pick, then we hired the wrong coach. That doesn't mean Pierce shouldn't get the job, but it shouldn't be based on fan sentiment.
RE: RE: Osi chimes in  
FranknWeezer : 1/14/2020 11:09 pm : link
In comment 14779702 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
In comment 14779697 FranknWeezer said:


Quote:




Quote:


OSI @OsiUmenyiora I played with Antonio Pierce. Also played FOR him. At the same time. He will be an outstanding head coach.



Maybe a groundswell of AP’s former teammates pushing for him will convince JJ and the front office to pull the trigger.



If Joe Judge is swayed by fan sentiment on who he should pick, then we hired the wrong coach. That doesn't mean Pierce shouldn't get the job, but it shouldn't be based on fan sentiment.


Agree, but “fan”? This ain’t you and me pushing AP...it’s Osi and Tuck.
Keeping Shula  
Giants38 : 1/14/2020 11:10 pm : link
Will make me want to vomit. There could not be a less inspiring hire for OC than retaining him. My number 1 choice for OC was Brady, by far, so the drop-off from him to any candidate is steep, anyway.
Forget the actual play calling  
Giantfan21 : 1/14/2020 11:16 pm : link
I want to know who designed the plays this past year. If shula had anything to do with the complete lack of creativity in the run scheme or getting barkley open out of the backfield he needs to go .

I just dont get what shula has done here that any fan should be ok with him coming back as OC. The best thing you could say about him is he helped jones but thats not enough of a reason just like it wasnt for shurmur .
How about RB/TE and Run Coordinator  
Mike in Prescott : 1/14/2020 11:24 pm : link
For Shula? Supposedly his OC strengths were the running game and scheming the short pass game to the backs and TEs? Just a thought.
RE: How about RB/TE and Run Coordinator  
Mike in Prescott : 1/14/2020 11:26 pm : link
In comment 14779715 Mike in Prescott said:
Quote:
For Shula? Supposedly his OC strengths were the running game and scheming the short pass game to the backs and TEs? Just a thought.

*During his time as the Carolina OC.
Pierce always seemed like he would make a good coach  
BH28 : 1/14/2020 11:27 pm : link
I would be all for that hire, based on his smarts about the position.
RE: Is Shula the multiple, innovative coach to lead this offense?  
AdamBrag : 1/14/2020 11:30 pm : link
In comment 14779692 battttles said:
Quote:
Surely JJ's plan wasn't to just hire this guy?! This is problematic.


Agreed. If Shula is promoted to OC, I think it's right to question how independently Judge is working versus how much influence Gettleman has.
is the argument really that a better, more experienced  
japanhead : 1/14/2020 11:35 pm : link
OC a la gruden or garrett would undermine graham's assistant head coach designation?

good god. if this is the reasoning going on in the building the giants are fucked.
RE: Keeping Shula  
ryanmkeane : 1/14/2020 11:39 pm : link
In comment 14779709 Giants38 said:
Quote:
Will make me want to vomit. There could not be a less inspiring hire for OC than retaining him. My number 1 choice for OC was Brady, by far, so the drop-off from him to any candidate is steep, anyway.

Mike Shula has been an OC in the NFL for 7 seasons, one of which led to a Super Bowl win.

You’re so confident Joe Brady is better than him?
RE: How about RB/TE and Run Coordinator  
Mike in NY : 1/14/2020 11:41 pm : link
In comment 14779715 Mike in Prescott said:
Quote:
For Shula? Supposedly his OC strengths were the running game and scheming the short pass game to the backs and TEs? Just a thought.


I wouldn’t mind Stump Mitchell as RB Coach. He adds a lot of experience and coached under Freddie Kitchens this year in Cleveland. He has had some successful stints with not always the best RB’s.
RE: is the argument really that a better, more experienced  
Nine-Tails : 1/14/2020 11:42 pm : link
In comment 14779720 japanhead said:
Quote:
OC a la gruden or garrett would undermine graham's assistant head coach designation?

good god. if this is the reasoning going on in the building the giants are fucked.


It’s Dunleavy, don’t take it seriously
Strange to build staff from the bottom up. No OC, no O-line coach  
Ivan15 : 1/14/2020 11:56 pm : link
Defense building is a little more traditional.
RE: RE: Keeping Shula  
japanhead : 1/15/2020 12:01 am : link
In comment 14779722 ryanmkeane said:
Quote:
In comment 14779709 Giants38 said:


Quote:


Will make me want to vomit. There could not be a less inspiring hire for OC than retaining him. My number 1 choice for OC was Brady, by far, so the drop-off from him to any candidate is steep, anyway.


Mike Shula has been an OC in the NFL for 7 seasons, one of which led to a Super Bowl win.

You’re so confident Joe Brady is better than him?


shula was never offensive coordinator for a superbowl winning team ever in his entire coaching career.
Is Pierce more desirable than  
Bill in UT : 1/15/2020 12:02 am : link
Pepper?
RE: RE: RE: Keeping Shula  
Mike in NY : 1/15/2020 12:15 am : link
In comment 14779732 japanhead said:
Quote:
In comment 14779722 ryanmkeane said:


Quote:


In comment 14779709 Giants38 said:


Quote:


Will make me want to vomit. There could not be a less inspiring hire for OC than retaining him. My number 1 choice for OC was Brady, by far, so the drop-off from him to any candidate is steep, anyway.


Mike Shula has been an OC in the NFL for 7 seasons, one of which led to a Super Bowl win.

You’re so confident Joe Brady is better than him?



shula was never offensive coordinator for a superbowl winning team ever in his entire coaching career.


What Super Bowl winning team has Joe Brady been an offensive coordinator for?
Crap on Shula all you want  
Joey in VA : 1/15/2020 12:38 am : link
But calling the plays in Carolina, he ran a run heavy offense that did pretty well and with a young Cam Newton who is nowhere near as accurate as DJ is.
RE: Crap on Shula all you want  
Giants38 : 1/15/2020 12:58 am : link
In comment 14779747 Joey in VA said:
Quote:
But calling the plays in Carolina, he ran a run heavy offense that did pretty well and with a young Cam Newton who is nowhere near as accurate as DJ is.


Shula called plays for one very successful Cam season. Yes, it was an MVP season (also an outlier). They also got trucked in the SB. He did not win a SB.

I'm not saying Brady called plays for any team at this point. I'm just more confident in him designing an offense that will be both modern and QB friendly. I am not confident in Shula doing either. I will not be happy if they retain Shula. Frankly, I am not aware of what Shula has done to remain on the offensive staff. You have a new QB coach. Now go out and get a new OC to run shit around here. We're going to promote Shula after the last two seasons? (Yes, this would be a promotion because he'd be calling plays.) You don't see any one else flocking to hire the guy. The Post speculated that if he is not retained here, he could follow Shurmur to Denver as QB coach.

Let me ask you, if Shula is so good, why is no one else looking at the guy?
Mike Shula owes his whole career to Cam Newton's MVP year  
sb from NYT Forum : 1/15/2020 1:34 am : link
Other than that he's done a whole lot of nothing.
WHY do I keep hearing so many people mention Jay Gruden?  
Leg of Theismann : 1/15/2020 1:49 am : link
The guy just came off of an awful 5-6 year stint as HC for the Skins (35-49-1), and I get it it's Snyder but still what has Gruden done to prove he's this great offensive mind that is making so many BBIers want to bring him on? Is it JUST the possibility of getting Callahan as OL coach? That just seems like quite leap to say you want a guy just for the possible OL coach he might bring with him.

Meanwhile Garrett is coming off of an 85-67 stint with the Cowboys, has more HC experience, and I can actually point to some impressive things he did offensively during his time there (getting guys like Romo and Dak who were not high draft picks to put up huge numbers consistently), yet I see so many people saying "please not Garrett". Why?

Anyone who would prefer Gruden over Garrett for OC please try to sell me on that...
RE: RE: Crap on Shula all you want  
TrueBlue56 : 1/15/2020 2:16 am : link
In comment 14779751 Giants38 said:
Quote:
In comment 14779747 Joey in VA said:


Quote:


But calling the plays in Carolina, he ran a run heavy offense that did pretty well and with a young Cam Newton who is nowhere near as accurate as DJ is.



Shula called plays for one very successful Cam season. Yes, it was an MVP season (also an outlier). They also got trucked in the SB. He did not win a SB.

I'm not saying Brady called plays for any team at this point. I'm just more confident in him designing an offense that will be both modern and QB friendly. I am not confident in Shula doing either. I will not be happy if they retain Shula. Frankly, I am not aware of what Shula has done to remain on the offensive staff. You have a new QB coach. Now go out and get a new OC to run shit around here. We're going to promote Shula after the last two seasons? (Yes, this would be a promotion because he'd be calling plays.) You don't see any one else flocking to hire the guy. The Post speculated that if he is not retained here, he could follow Shurmur to Denver as QB coach.

Let me ask you, if Shula is so good, why is no one else looking at the guy?


Wait, I thought shila was forced onto shurmur by gettleman and now shurmur would voluntarily take him to denver? Mmmmm guess shurmur had say in his staff after all
RE: Strange to build staff from the bottom up. No OC, no O-line coach  
Milton : 1/15/2020 2:25 am : link
In comment 14779730 Ivan15 said:
Quote:
Defense building is a little more traditional.
There is no top and bottom, the position coaches are extensions of Judge same as the coordinators, they just don't get paid as much. I'm not saying there is or isn't a hierarchy chart that places the offensive coordinator above the offensive position coaches and the defensive coordinator above the defensive position coaches, but the head coach is the visionary that connects them all. I'm not saying this is exactly the case, but for the most part.

I expect Judge to be very involved in the offense, defense, and special teams. Three out of the four past head coaches have been glorified offensive coordinators who basically turned over the defense to the coordinator of choice. I expect it to be different with Judge. He will be intimately involved in the coaching of all three phases (emulating Belichick, whose fingers are in everything).
Shula would have ber retained  
Simms11 : 1/15/2020 5:22 am : link
already if JJ was that hot on him. It appears JJ us going to do his due diligence and talk with other potentials. If Giants think an experienced former Head Coach should be considered, then I'm sure Judge will look that way too. Another critical hire, along with Oline.
RE: Crap on Shula all you want  
Tuckrule : 1/15/2020 5:27 am : link
In comment 14779747 Joey in VA said:
Quote:
But calling the plays in Carolina, he ran a run heavy offense that did pretty well and with a young Cam Newton who is nowhere near as accurate as DJ is.


Joey. I respect you big time as a poster but this isn’t true at all. Cam had one great year and had the best defense in the nfl. I think the panthers were similar to the ravens. Great run heavy offense with a running qb and a top flight defense. I don’t give Shula credit for that. He was along for the ride
RE: Crap on Shula all you want  
Jay in Toronto : 1/15/2020 5:46 am : link
In comment 14779747 Joey in VA said:
Quote:
But calling the plays in Carolina, he ran a run heavy offense that did pretty well and with a young Cam Newton who is nowhere near as accurate as DJ is.


Get with the program! We want change for change's! Out with the old, in with the new!
oh man if the Giants hired Pierce as LBs coach  
SamdaGiantsFan : 1/15/2020 6:55 am : link
... I'd be so god damn excited
Shula would not be an inspiring hire  
ZogZerg : 1/15/2020 7:01 am : link
There are many better options out there.
Failing Upwards  
twostepgiants : 1/15/2020 7:05 am : link
Thats the term for what is being considered here with Shula.
RE: RE: Is Shula the multiple, innovative coach to lead this offense?  
section125 : 1/15/2020 7:18 am : link
In comment 14779719 AdamBrag said:
Quote:
In comment 14779692 battttles said:


Quote:


Surely JJ's plan wasn't to just hire this guy?! This is problematic.



Agreed. If Shula is promoted to OC, I think it's right to question how independently Judge is working versus how much influence Gettleman has.


Really? You really think Gettleman is telling Judge what coaches he has to keep?
I'm shaded with Shula too, but maybe, just maybe Shula does design great plays and Shurmur just installed his own and we know he called his own plays. Shula was OC in name only. Shurmur was HC/OC.


I really hope Judge takes Pierce. He is very smart defensive guy.
Who was responsible for the OL blocking schemes?  
ij_reilly : 1/15/2020 7:29 am : link
Would Shula have been involved with that?

If he had any hand in that mess, he must not be retained!

I’m not sure that Hunter takes all the blame for the he shitty blocking schemes.
RE: RE: RE: Is Shula the multiple, innovative coach to lead this offense?  
twostepgiants : 1/15/2020 7:38 am : link
In comment 14779792 section125 said:
Quote:
In comment 14779719 AdamBrag said:


Quote:


In comment 14779692 battttles said:


Quote:


Surely JJ's plan wasn't to just hire this guy?! This is problematic.



Agreed. If Shula is promoted to OC, I think it's right to question how independently Judge is working versus how much influence Gettleman has.



Really? You really think Gettleman is telling Judge what coaches he has to keep?
I'm shaded with Shula too, but maybe, just maybe Shula does design great plays and Shurmur just installed his own and we know he called his own plays. Shula was OC in name only. Shurmur was HC/OC.


I really hope Judge takes Pierce. He is very smart defensive guy.


Well, Shula was with Gettleman in Carolina and had no prior connection to Shurmur, no real connection to the Reid Offense and wasn't exactly a hot candidate and landed the job

Now he may get retained snd promoted here when he has no prior connection to Judge, and no real experience or conmection with NE thpe offense

The only common denominator is Gettleman
RE: How about RB/TE and Run Coordinator  
Justlurking : 1/15/2020 7:40 am : link
In comment 14779715 Mike in Prescott said:
Quote:
For Shula? Supposedly his OC strengths were the running game and scheming the short pass game to the backs and TEs? Just a thought.


Ok so he should definitely not be retained.
RE: RE: RE: RE: Is Shula the multiple, innovative coach to lead this offense?  
Mike in NY : 1/15/2020 7:47 am : link
In comment 14779798 twostepgiants said:
Quote:
In comment 14779792 section125 said:


Quote:


In comment 14779719 AdamBrag said:


Quote:


In comment 14779692 battttles said:


Quote:


Surely JJ's plan wasn't to just hire this guy?! This is problematic.



Agreed. If Shula is promoted to OC, I think it's right to question how independently Judge is working versus how much influence Gettleman has.



Really? You really think Gettleman is telling Judge what coaches he has to keep?
I'm shaded with Shula too, but maybe, just maybe Shula does design great plays and Shurmur just installed his own and we know he called his own plays. Shula was OC in name only. Shurmur was HC/OC.


I really hope Judge takes Pierce. He is very smart defensive guy.



Well, Shula was with Gettleman in Carolina and had no prior connection to Shurmur, no real connection to the Reid Offense and wasn't exactly a hot candidate and landed the job

Now he may get retained snd promoted here when he has no prior connection to Judge, and no real experience or conmection with NE thpe offense

The only common denominator is Gettleman


Shula did have a connection to the Reid offense. Ron Rivera’s first NFL coaching job other than “Quality Control” was as a LB coach under Andy Reid during his first 4 or 5 seasons in Philadelphia. In the NFL it is not like the offensive and defensive staff are completely isolated from each other.
RE: Who was responsible for the OL blocking schemes?  
twostepgiants : 1/15/2020 7:49 am : link
In comment 14779796 ij_reilly said:
Quote:
Would Shula have been involved with that?

If he had any hand in that mess, he must not be retained!

I’m not sure that Hunter takes all the blame for the he shitty blocking schemes.


Great point and lets add who was responsible for a player starting on the OL who didnt even practice at that position? Shouldnt that be on tbe OC
Shurmur called the plays  
RobCarpenter : 1/15/2020 7:53 am : link
Seems to me the problems with the O had to do with poor execution stemming from an ineffectual coach and a soft team that was beaten in the trenches.
This is bothering me  
cjac : 1/15/2020 7:57 am : link
Quote:
Jim Caldwell, Jay Gruden, Jason Garrett and others have been floated as offensive coordinator possibilities.


Floated by who? This is all media speculation, no one on the Giants have mentioned any of these guys, and there are no reports that conversations are being had.
My opinion on Shula  
blueblood'11 : 1/15/2020 8:16 am : link
is that he didn't call the plays. He may have had other ideas in his tool box sort to speak that Shurmur may have decided not to use. I'm not saying the Giants should retain him but I think it's really hard to say who is at fault there for the Giant"s failings on offense. And especially the inability to get Barkley out in space. Shurmur was most content in running him up the middle. Few screen passes and even fewer stretch plays.
I have zero doubt  
SirYesSir : 1/15/2020 8:17 am : link
that Judge is putting together a group that he thinks can accomplish his bigger goals of team-building and player development.

He cares more about that than their run vs. throw percentage on third and 6 I think...
RE: RE: RE: RE: Keeping Shula  
Gatorade Dunk : 1/15/2020 8:35 am : link
In comment 14779739 Mike in NY said:
Quote:
In comment 14779732 japanhead said:


Quote:


In comment 14779722 ryanmkeane said:


Quote:


In comment 14779709 Giants38 said:


Quote:


Will make me want to vomit. There could not be a less inspiring hire for OC than retaining him. My number 1 choice for OC was Brady, by far, so the drop-off from him to any candidate is steep, anyway.


Mike Shula has been an OC in the NFL for 7 seasons, one of which led to a Super Bowl win.

You’re so confident Joe Brady is better than him?



shula was never offensive coordinator for a superbowl winning team ever in his entire coaching career.



What Super Bowl winning team has Joe Brady been an offensive coordinator for?

That's not really the point - Ryan is the one who said Shula had been a SB winning OC, which is false. I don't think it's worth getting hung up on though, accuracy isn't quite Ryan's thing.
RE: This is bothering me  
Gatorade Dunk : 1/15/2020 8:36 am : link
In comment 14779816 cjac said:
Quote:


Quote:


Jim Caldwell, Jay Gruden, Jason Garrett and others have been floated as offensive coordinator possibilities.



Floated by who? This is all media speculation, no one on the Giants have mentioned any of these guys, and there are no reports that conversations are being had.

Floated by BBI. Everything in those tidbits is pulled directly from here.
RE: No way in hell shoudl Shula be back..  
Rory : 1/15/2020 8:38 am : link
In comment 14779696 EricJ said:
Quote:
we need to dump every coach... period. Maybe keep the strength and conditioning coach but that's it.


dumb comment
RE: Strange to build staff from the bottom up. No OC, no O-line coach  
Rflairr : 1/15/2020 8:50 am : link
In comment 14779730 Ivan15 said:
Quote:
Defense building is a little more traditional.


They’re keeping Shula. And they can’t wait to tell us he’s had Head Coaching experience that will help Judge. Jeesh
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