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George Young in HOF

BigBlue89 : 1/15/2020 9:30 am
Just announced on GMFB on NFL Network.

Well deserved and long overdue.
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Sad that it had to come  
Dr. D : 1/15/2020 10:10 am : link
about 20 years after his death.
Fantastic  
dune69 : 1/15/2020 10:11 am : link
Years too late. Wish George was alive to enjoy.
About time.  
pjcas18 : 1/15/2020 10:12 am : link
it seems like every year when Young was passed over they'd interview someone with a vote and ask how is it that George Young is not in the HOF and the response would be "I don't know, I think people assumed he was already in" and they planned to vote for someone else.

shitty answer I read more than a few times.

A good day  
arniefez : 1/15/2020 10:14 am : link
way too late though.
RE: It's about time  
Southern Man : 1/15/2020 10:17 am : link
In comment 14780032 Matt in SGS said:
Quote:
I'm glad to see that they finally got it right to put that old curmudgeon in the Hall. I posted this about 5 years ago, including the HBO Inside the NFL clip about George Young in 1986 before the Giants went on their Super Bowl playoff run. https://bigbluevcr.blogspot.com/2015/09/inside-nfl-cover-story-snippet-george.html - ( New Window )


Interesting details in that article. Never knew, or maybe I forgot, that Young died due to a variant of Mad Cow disease...tainted meat at the racetrack.
Long overdue  
Danny L : 1/15/2020 10:19 am : link
but better late than never
Two BIG injustices righted today....  
GiantBlue : 1/15/2020 10:20 am : link
George Young in the HOF and Depeche Mode in the RR HOF!
Well deserved!!!  
JohnB : 1/15/2020 10:23 am : link
.
About damned time!  
truebluelarry : 1/15/2020 10:31 am : link
This should have been done over a decade ago!

took them long enough  
Victor in CT : 1/15/2020 10:33 am : link
it's disgraceful that he didn't get in while he was alive.
Well deserved!!  
johnnyb : 1/15/2020 10:38 am : link
And about time!

His accomplishments should have warranted inclusion years ago. Wish he were with us to enjoy the moment he deserves.
same as above  
hassan : 1/15/2020 10:40 am : link
and i hope probably against the odds they get another great one like him while i am alive......
RE: RE: It's about time  
Matt in SGS : 1/15/2020 10:43 am : link
In comment 14780076 Southern Man said:
Quote:
In comment 14780032 Matt in SGS said:


Quote:


I'm glad to see that they finally got it right to put that old curmudgeon in the Hall. I posted this about 5 years ago, including the HBO Inside the NFL clip about George Young in 1986 before the Giants went on their Super Bowl playoff run. https://bigbluevcr.blogspot.com/2015/09/inside-nfl-cover-story-snippet-george.html - ( New Window )



Interesting details in that article. Never knew, or maybe I forgot, that Young died due to a variant of Mad Cow disease...tainted meat at the racetrack.


Yes, he died from CJD, in which clusters were traced to the Garden State Racetrack.
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/mad-cow-disease-in-new-jersey/ - ( New Window )
Guess I'm in the minority  
David B. : 1/15/2020 10:43 am : link
I never thought he was that great. Certainly no HOF (IMO). When BBI started in 1994, we use to argue whether Young was even borderline competent (not much has changed). And now he's a HOFer? Meh.

Yes, there were two SBs, but in retrospect, one could make the case to credit them more to Parcells and Belichick.

They weren't getting it done with Perkins, Reeves, and Young's picks.

My mother could have scouted LT. If New Orleans took LT, and the Giants end up with George Rodgers, are we still talking about two SBs? I'm guessing not.

Young's best move was promoting Parcells (and then he spent years trying to get rid of him).

Young's BEST draft picks (IMO) were Phil (who?) Simms, and Bavaro. Kudos for that. And YES, he obviously drafted the other core players, but again, he was getting input from Parcells, and apparently ignoring input from Reeves.

After that, I see a lot of bad.
- Feuding with both Parcells and Reeves (to the detriment of the team, with Reeves)
- Picking Handley over Belichick? Ouch.
- Picking Gary Zimmermann over Reggie White. OUCH! Then not even signing Zim. With RW AND LT, they probably would have had more SBs.
- NEVER trading up or down in the draft.
- Pathetically slow to embrace Free Agency.

From 79-97 here are his first round pure dud misses:
- Butch Woolfolk
- George Adams
- Jarrod Bunch
- Derek Brown
- Dave Brown
- Ty Wheatley
- Thomas Lewis
The only blue chip 1st rounders were LT, Simms, Banks, and Hampton. 4 in 18 years.

- Cedrick Jones over Marvin Harrison
- Couldn't evaluate WRs to save his life.

I'd sooner give the gold jacket to Simms. He (IMO) was far more responsible for the two SB wins -- even for the one he didn't play in -- he won 10 games before getting hurt.

But that's just me.
Congrats to George  
Torrag : 1/15/2020 11:24 am : link
He was a watershed executive and the driving force that change the fortunes of the franchise forever.
David B  
NYG27 : 1/15/2020 11:25 am : link
I know the issues between Young and Parcells. Although was the the issues between Young and Reeves? Just curious, Young signed all the former Broncos Reeves wanted to bring in and move on from several core players. Any links to a video are article that goes into their issues?
David B....  
Goin Deep : 1/15/2020 11:26 am : link
Agree with you on points listed. He did however right the
ship from the pathetic 70's era.
He was a much better GM before FA  
GiantsRage2007 : 1/15/2020 11:28 am : link
Is my recollection... once the NFL went to unrestricted FA, he didn't do such a good job.

At least that's my memory
RE: David B....  
PatersonPlank : 1/15/2020 11:29 am : link
In comment 14780242 Goin Deep said:
Quote:
Agree with you on points listed. He did however right the
ship from the pathetic 70's era.


He turned us from laughing stock doormats to 2 time SB champs. What more do you want? Why nitpick his poor picks, everyone has them. Its impossible to hit 100%.
I agree that no one goes 100%  
David B. : 1/15/2020 11:43 am : link
But even if you throw the first round duds out of my prior post, the rest of what I mentioned doesn't make him HOF worthy, IMO.

Clearly the HOF committee thinks otherwise.
About damned time  
Optimus-NY : 1/15/2020 12:04 pm : link
Contributed SIGNIFICANTLY to the turnaround of the cornerstone franchise of the NFL. Without him we don't have those 4 SB titles and would probably be still looking for one, a la the Brownstains, Cardinals, and Lions.
Finally! Long overdue...  
Stev7 : 1/15/2020 12:10 pm : link
George Young was a great GM and a great man. He saved this franchise back in 1979. Young is my all-time favorite person in football or in any team sport. Muhammed Ali is my favorite all time person in the sports world. George Young would be number two. Congratulations to his family!
Sure you can point out his later failures  
DieHard : 1/15/2020 12:26 pm : link
But the guy took over a franchise that was at Browns-level futility and made them a 2-time SB winner. A well-deserved honor.
RE: Awesome now Do Carl Banks  
Coach Red Beaulieu : 1/15/2020 12:26 pm : link
In comment 14779974 Gettledogman said:
Quote:
One of the best LBrs to play the game -ask Bill Belichek

Bill Walsh called Bavaro the best TE in the league. Unsolicited praise from the guy who said Joe Montana was a scrub he could easily replace.

Bavaro was the modern prototype inline TE.
I think everyone who was actually a Giants fan in the 1970's  
PatersonPlank : 1/15/2020 12:36 pm : link
agrees with his selection. People who just go to Wiki after the fact and look at raw stats don't get the picture.
George Young’s second round picks included  
mfsd : 1/15/2020 12:42 pm : link
Joe Morris, Jumbo Elliott, Pepper Johnson, Mark Collins, and Leonard Marshall.

But sure let’s cherry pick his bad picks only to invent some dumbass argument against him.
People also forget that going into the 81 draft, LB was  
mfsd : 1/15/2020 12:49 pm : link
the strongest position on the Giants already with Carson, Kelley and Van Pelt, and plenty of people thought the Giants should pick a position of greater need than LT at OLB.

If anyone doesn’t think half the GMs in the league wouldn’t have whiffed in that spot and not drafted LT, you haven’t been paying attention to the NFL for that long.

George Young deserves 100% credit for the LT pick
Well deserved  
HomerJones45 : 1/15/2020 12:55 pm : link
Turned the Giants into a professional football organization from the sloppy mess it was and found a path out of the 17 year wilderness. People forget he came up through the ranks from position coach and had knowledge of all personnel aspects of running a professional football team.
Best news  
Tony in Tampa : 1/15/2020 1:03 pm : link
I've heard all day
Well deserved and at long last  
Steve in ATL : 1/15/2020 1:05 pm : link
A great GM. It is a shame this did not occur when he was still alive.
mfsd  
arniefez : 1/15/2020 1:05 pm : link
You left out Strahan and Tiki as 2nd rounders.
RE: George Young’s second round picks included  
Coach Red Beaulieu : 1/15/2020 1:05 pm : link
In comment 14780363 mfsd said:
Quote:
Joe Morris, Jumbo Elliott, Pepper Johnson, Mark Collins, and Leonard Marshall.

But sure let’s cherry pick his bad picks only to invent some dumbass argument against him.

Wasn't Strahan a Young 2nd round pick?
As  
AcidTest : 1/15/2020 1:08 pm : link
others have said, well deserved and long overdue. Congratulations to the Young family.
Wonder who would be making the HOF speech?  
Big Blue '56 : 1/15/2020 1:32 pm : link
Maybe Tuna? I know, they had conflicts, but together they got it done. Probably a family member or perhaps Mara.
Excellent News!  
Manning10 : 1/15/2020 1:32 pm : link
Glad this happened, was an important Figure not just for the Giants but for the NFL in the 80s and 90s.
Interesting note , when they show all
the Super Bowls watch Super 5 Cowboys vs Colts, George was coaching Colts O-Line.
RE: mfsd  
mfsd : 1/15/2020 1:47 pm : link
In comment 14780415 arniefez said:
Quote:
You left out Strahan and Tiki as 2nd rounders.


Yup, spot on...I was still stuck in the 80s thinking about Young

Point being - we all know he flubbed the early days of free agency, the Hampton contract was a disaster, the Zimmerman/Reggie White story, etc

But to hold his mistakes up as an argument he doesn’t deserve the HoF is absurd.

One of his most underrated decisions, IMO, is sticking with Parcells after the 83 season. Imagine the reaction now in the media, on BBI, etc had the Giants kept a young unproven coach after a 3-12-1 disaster now
Well deserved and long overdue  
LTIsTheGreatest : 1/15/2020 1:52 pm : link
He rescued the Giants from the darkness of the 70s. First by taking Phil Simmms in 79, then Lawrence Taylor in 81, then Carl Banks, Gary Reasons and Pepper Johnson. Built that great defense of the mid 80s.
The one thing he did I could never understand was why he would not consider Bill Bellichick for the HC job after Parcells left in 91. Instead gave it to Ray Handley and it was a disaster. Other than that, he was the best GM we ever had
RE: mfsd  
Victor in CT : 1/15/2020 2:01 pm : link
In comment 14780415 arniefez said:
Quote:
You left out Strahan and Tiki as 2nd rounders.


And Amani Toomer too.
David B  
giant power : 1/15/2020 2:30 pm : link
You are right that Big George missed on a lot of #1 picks. He missed in 1988 with Eric Moore at number 10 also. What you discount big time though is he hit on a plethora of players in the second and latter rounds including Jumbo Elliott in that same 1988 draft. In the end, does it really matter if Moore was picked first ahead of Elliott? Go back and review all those drafts online and you will find many a big time player was picked in the second or mid rounds like a Bavaro in the 4th round as an example.
Hooray  
flycatcher : 1/15/2020 3:18 pm : link
Finally
Young had an eye for offensive line talent  
GeofromNJ : 1/15/2020 8:17 pm : link
His draft hits included Jumbo Elliott, William Roberts, Doug Riesenberg, Karl Nelson, Eric Moore, Brian Williams, Bob Kratch.

I fault him for not being ready to replace Parcells when Parcells kept him hanging in terms of whether he was retiring. I would have parted ways with Tuna without waiting for his decision. In near desperation, Young promoted Handley.

And we all know that Dave Brown was a lousy choice. He lacked a quick release and was essentially immobile.
RE: Young had an eye for offensive line talent  
Matt in SGS : 1/15/2020 8:31 pm : link
In comment 14781077 GeofromNJ said:
Quote:
His draft hits included Jumbo Elliott, William Roberts, Doug Riesenberg, Karl Nelson, Eric Moore, Brian Williams, Bob Kratch.

I fault him for not being ready to replace Parcells when Parcells kept him hanging in terms of whether he was retiring. I would have parted ways with Tuna without waiting for his decision. In near desperation, Young promoted Handley.

And we all know that Dave Brown was a lousy choice. He lacked a quick release and was essentially immobile.


A couple of things on your post. The drafting of offensive lineman was a combination of 2 of George Young tenets of drafting

1) Cluster drafting- ie: if you had a position of need, draft multiple prospects at that position because you will have greater odds of finding a hit. Now, keep in mind, when he did this, he had a 12 round draft, there was no real free agency (Plan B free agency), and no salary cap, so you really had to build roughly 80 of your roster though the draft

2) Planet Theory- that was the idea that there were only a handful of large people on the planet who are athletic enough to play football, so when you get a big OL/DL who can play, you take them.

As for Parcells, we've talked about this on BBI many times. Young didn't think Belichick was going to be a good coach, he thought his personality would hold him back. Handley was on the staff since the mid 1980s and he coached with Parcells at Air Force. Handley tried to leave to go to law school, but Parcells and Young both talked him out of it and made him OC. He was considered a very smart x's and o's coach and a young offensive mind after 2 defensive coaches. Young and Parcells were both aligned, they were both wrong.

And Dave Brown has a lot of faults. But he wasn't immobile. He actually could scramble a bit. His 4 rushing TDs in a season is the highest total by a Giants QB in the past 40 years. And he rushed for over 200 yards one year, only 1 of 3 QBs to do so in the past 30 years (Hostetler and Jones were the others). It's a good thing Brown could run a little, or else he'd have been killed behind Greg Bishop and Lance Smith.
Long overdue and well deserved  
ChathamMark : 1/15/2020 8:36 pm : link
Congrats to the Young Family. (and his interviews with Mike and the Mad Dog should be in the Hall too...)
RE: Awesome now Do Carl Banks  
section125 : 1/15/2020 9:04 pm : link
In comment 14779974 Gettledogman said:
Quote:
One of the best LBrs to play the game -ask Bill Belichek


Doubt it. Look how long it took Harry Carson to get in.
RE: What you discount big time  
David B. : 1/15/2020 9:57 pm : link
Quote:
You are right that Big George missed on a lot of #1 picks. He missed in 1988 with Eric Moore at number 10 also. What you discount big time though is he hit on a plethora of players in the second and latter rounds including Jumbo Elliott in that same 1988 draft. In the end, does it really matter if Moore was picked first ahead of Elliott? Go back and review all those drafts online and you will find many a big time player was picked in the second or mid rounds like a Bavaro in the 4th round as an example.


Actually, I didn't discount ANY of that at all. I gave him credit for drafting the core of the players that led to the two SBs.

I took him to task for a lot of other faults.

But if he'd actually HIT more of the 1st rounders or taken Reggie White over Zimmerman, there might have been a LOT more SBs. If he hadn't been so dreadfully wrong on Ray Handley over Belichick, or Dave Brown, there might have been more SBs.

Never mind that when Parcells and Belichick left, they stopped winning them. Nosferatu got in. Enjoy it.

Personally, I think Acorssi was a LOT better.
Marvelous.I can’t think of any other Giant, with the exception of #42  
plato : 1/15/2020 11:42 pm : link
Charlie Conerly who is repeatedly dissed by these writers etc, who belongs in Youngstown more than the savior of the Giants, and my long ago pen pal and “friend”, George Young.
Marvelous.I can’t think of any other Giant, with the exception of #42  
plato : 1/15/2020 11:43 pm : link
Charlie Conerly who is repeatedly dissed by these writers etc, who belongs in Youngstown more than the savior of the Giants, and my long ago pen pal and “friend”, George Young.
He the Giant's to the Super Bowl  
uconngiant : 1/16/2020 12:35 am : link
He was not perfect and his free agent picks were less than stellar but he got the Giant's two Super Bowls. That is good enough for me
It's about time  
montanagiant : 1/16/2020 2:53 am : link
He built a powerhouse
RE: RE: Awesome now Do Carl Banks  
BlueVinnie : 1/16/2020 8:08 am : link
In comment 14780340 Coach Red Beaulieu said:
Quote:
In comment 14779974 Gettledogman said:


Quote:


One of the best LBrs to play the game -ask Bill Belichek


Bill Walsh called Bavaro the best TE in the league. Unsolicited praise from the guy who said Joe Montana was a scrub he could easily replace.

Bavaro was the modern prototype inline TE.


Bavaro...my all time favorite Giant. Unfortunately he was never the same player after his devastating knee injury. Had he had another 2 healthy seasons, he gets in the hall easily.
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