it seems like every year when Young was passed over they'd interview someone with a vote and ask how is it that George Young is not in the HOF and the response would be "I don't know, I think people assumed he was already in" and they planned to vote for someone else.
I'm glad to see that they finally got it right to put that old curmudgeon in the Hall. I posted this about 5 years ago, including the HBO Inside the NFL clip about George Young in 1986 before the Giants went on their Super Bowl playoff run. https://bigbluevcr.blogspot.com/2015/09/inside-nfl-cover-story-snippet-george.html - ( New Window )
Interesting details in that article. Never knew, or maybe I forgot, that Young died due to a variant of Mad Cow disease...tainted meat at the racetrack.
I'm glad to see that they finally got it right to put that old curmudgeon in the Hall. I posted this about 5 years ago, including the HBO Inside the NFL clip about George Young in 1986 before the Giants went on their Super Bowl playoff run. https://bigbluevcr.blogspot.com/2015/09/inside-nfl-cover-story-snippet-george.html - ( New Window )
Interesting details in that article. Never knew, or maybe I forgot, that Young died due to a variant of Mad Cow disease...tainted meat at the racetrack.
I never thought he was that great. Certainly no HOF (IMO). When BBI started in 1994, we use to argue whether Young was even borderline competent (not much has changed). And now he's a HOFer? Meh.
Yes, there were two SBs, but in retrospect, one could make the case to credit them more to Parcells and Belichick.
They weren't getting it done with Perkins, Reeves, and Young's picks.
My mother could have scouted LT. If New Orleans took LT, and the Giants end up with George Rodgers, are we still talking about two SBs? I'm guessing not.
Young's best move was promoting Parcells (and then he spent years trying to get rid of him).
Young's BEST draft picks (IMO) were Phil (who?) Simms, and Bavaro. Kudos for that. And YES, he obviously drafted the other core players, but again, he was getting input from Parcells, and apparently ignoring input from Reeves.
After that, I see a lot of bad.
- Feuding with both Parcells and Reeves (to the detriment of the team, with Reeves)
- Picking Handley over Belichick? Ouch.
- Picking Gary Zimmermann over Reggie White. OUCH! Then not even signing Zim. With RW AND LT, they probably would have had more SBs.
- NEVER trading up or down in the draft.
- Pathetically slow to embrace Free Agency.
From 79-97 here are his first round pure dud misses:
- Butch Woolfolk
- George Adams
- Jarrod Bunch
- Derek Brown
- Dave Brown
- Ty Wheatley
- Thomas Lewis
The only blue chip 1st rounders were LT, Simms, Banks, and Hampton. 4 in 18 years.
- Cedrick Jones over Marvin Harrison
- Couldn't evaluate WRs to save his life.
I'd sooner give the gold jacket to Simms. He (IMO) was far more responsible for the two SB wins -- even for the one he didn't play in -- he won 10 games before getting hurt.
I know the issues between Young and Parcells. Although was the the issues between Young and Reeves? Just curious, Young signed all the former Broncos Reeves wanted to bring in and move on from several core players. Any links to a video are article that goes into their issues?
Agree with you on points listed. He did however right the
ship from the pathetic 70's era.
He turned us from laughing stock doormats to 2 time SB champs. What more do you want? Why nitpick his poor picks, everyone has them. Its impossible to hit 100%.
Contributed SIGNIFICANTLY to the turnaround of the cornerstone franchise of the NFL. Without him we don't have those 4 SB titles and would probably be still looking for one, a la the Brownstains, Cardinals, and Lions.
George Young was a great GM and a great man. He saved this franchise back in 1979. Young is my all-time favorite person in football or in any team sport. Muhammed Ali is my favorite all time person in the sports world. George Young would be number two. Congratulations to his family!
the strongest position on the Giants already with Carson, Kelley and Van Pelt, and plenty of people thought the Giants should pick a position of greater need than LT at OLB.
If anyone doesn’t think half the GMs in the league wouldn’t have whiffed in that spot and not drafted LT, you haven’t been paying attention to the NFL for that long.
Turned the Giants into a professional football organization from the sloppy mess it was and found a path out of the 17 year wilderness. People forget he came up through the ranks from position coach and had knowledge of all personnel aspects of running a professional football team.
Glad this happened, was an important Figure not just for the Giants but for the NFL in the 80s and 90s.
Interesting note , when they show all
the Super Bowls watch Super 5 Cowboys vs Colts, George was coaching Colts O-Line.
Yup, spot on...I was still stuck in the 80s thinking about Young
Point being - we all know he flubbed the early days of free agency, the Hampton contract was a disaster, the Zimmerman/Reggie White story, etc
But to hold his mistakes up as an argument he doesn’t deserve the HoF is absurd.
One of his most underrated decisions, IMO, is sticking with Parcells after the 83 season. Imagine the reaction now in the media, on BBI, etc had the Giants kept a young unproven coach after a 3-12-1 disaster now
He rescued the Giants from the darkness of the 70s. First by taking Phil Simmms in 79, then Lawrence Taylor in 81, then Carl Banks, Gary Reasons and Pepper Johnson. Built that great defense of the mid 80s.
The one thing he did I could never understand was why he would not consider Bill Bellichick for the HC job after Parcells left in 91. Instead gave it to Ray Handley and it was a disaster. Other than that, he was the best GM we ever had
You are right that Big George missed on a lot of #1 picks. He missed in 1988 with Eric Moore at number 10 also. What you discount big time though is he hit on a plethora of players in the second and latter rounds including Jumbo Elliott in that same 1988 draft. In the end, does it really matter if Moore was picked first ahead of Elliott? Go back and review all those drafts online and you will find many a big time player was picked in the second or mid rounds like a Bavaro in the 4th round as an example.
His draft hits included Jumbo Elliott, William Roberts, Doug Riesenberg, Karl Nelson, Eric Moore, Brian Williams, Bob Kratch.
I fault him for not being ready to replace Parcells when Parcells kept him hanging in terms of whether he was retiring. I would have parted ways with Tuna without waiting for his decision. In near desperation, Young promoted Handley.
And we all know that Dave Brown was a lousy choice. He lacked a quick release and was essentially immobile.
His draft hits included Jumbo Elliott, William Roberts, Doug Riesenberg, Karl Nelson, Eric Moore, Brian Williams, Bob Kratch.
I fault him for not being ready to replace Parcells when Parcells kept him hanging in terms of whether he was retiring. I would have parted ways with Tuna without waiting for his decision. In near desperation, Young promoted Handley.
And we all know that Dave Brown was a lousy choice. He lacked a quick release and was essentially immobile.
A couple of things on your post. The drafting of offensive lineman was a combination of 2 of George Young tenets of drafting
1) Cluster drafting- ie: if you had a position of need, draft multiple prospects at that position because you will have greater odds of finding a hit. Now, keep in mind, when he did this, he had a 12 round draft, there was no real free agency (Plan B free agency), and no salary cap, so you really had to build roughly 80 of your roster though the draft
2) Planet Theory- that was the idea that there were only a handful of large people on the planet who are athletic enough to play football, so when you get a big OL/DL who can play, you take them.
As for Parcells, we've talked about this on BBI many times. Young didn't think Belichick was going to be a good coach, he thought his personality would hold him back. Handley was on the staff since the mid 1980s and he coached with Parcells at Air Force. Handley tried to leave to go to law school, but Parcells and Young both talked him out of it and made him OC. He was considered a very smart x's and o's coach and a young offensive mind after 2 defensive coaches. Young and Parcells were both aligned, they were both wrong.
And Dave Brown has a lot of faults. But he wasn't immobile. He actually could scramble a bit. His 4 rushing TDs in a season is the highest total by a Giants QB in the past 40 years. And he rushed for over 200 yards one year, only 1 of 3 QBs to do so in the past 30 years (Hostetler and Jones were the others). It's a good thing Brown could run a little, or else he'd have been killed behind Greg Bishop and Lance Smith.
You are right that Big George missed on a lot of #1 picks. He missed in 1988 with Eric Moore at number 10 also. What you discount big time though is he hit on a plethora of players in the second and latter rounds including Jumbo Elliott in that same 1988 draft. In the end, does it really matter if Moore was picked first ahead of Elliott? Go back and review all those drafts online and you will find many a big time player was picked in the second or mid rounds like a Bavaro in the 4th round as an example.
Actually, I didn't discount ANY of that at all. I gave him credit for drafting the core of the players that led to the two SBs.
I took him to task for a lot of other faults.
But if he'd actually HIT more of the 1st rounders or taken Reggie White over Zimmerman, there might have been a LOT more SBs. If he hadn't been so dreadfully wrong on Ray Handley over Belichick, or Dave Brown, there might have been more SBs.
Never mind that when Parcells and Belichick left, they stopped winning them. Nosferatu got in. Enjoy it.
Personally, I think Acorssi was a LOT better.
Marvelous.I can’t think of any other Giant, with the exception of #42 Â
Charlie Conerly who is repeatedly dissed by these writers etc, who belongs in Youngstown more than the savior of the Giants, and my long ago pen pal and “friend”, George Young.
Marvelous.I can’t think of any other Giant, with the exception of #42 Â
Charlie Conerly who is repeatedly dissed by these writers etc, who belongs in Youngstown more than the savior of the Giants, and my long ago pen pal and “friend”, George Young.
One of the best LBrs to play the game -ask Bill Belichek
Bill Walsh called Bavaro the best TE in the league. Unsolicited praise from the guy who said Joe Montana was a scrub he could easily replace.
Bavaro was the modern prototype inline TE.
Bavaro...my all time favorite Giant. Unfortunately he was never the same player after his devastating knee injury. Had he had another 2 healthy seasons, he gets in the hall easily.
shitty answer I read more than a few times.
Interesting details in that article. Never knew, or maybe I forgot, that Young died due to a variant of Mad Cow disease...tainted meat at the racetrack.
His accomplishments should have warranted inclusion years ago. Wish he were with us to enjoy the moment he deserves.
Quote:
I'm glad to see that they finally got it right to put that old curmudgeon in the Hall. I posted this about 5 years ago, including the HBO Inside the NFL clip about George Young in 1986 before the Giants went on their Super Bowl playoff run. https://bigbluevcr.blogspot.com/2015/09/inside-nfl-cover-story-snippet-george.html - ( New Window )
Interesting details in that article. Never knew, or maybe I forgot, that Young died due to a variant of Mad Cow disease...tainted meat at the racetrack.
Yes, he died from CJD, in which clusters were traced to the Garden State Racetrack.
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/mad-cow-disease-in-new-jersey/ - ( New Window )
Yes, there were two SBs, but in retrospect, one could make the case to credit them more to Parcells and Belichick.
They weren't getting it done with Perkins, Reeves, and Young's picks.
My mother could have scouted LT. If New Orleans took LT, and the Giants end up with George Rodgers, are we still talking about two SBs? I'm guessing not.
Young's best move was promoting Parcells (and then he spent years trying to get rid of him).
Young's BEST draft picks (IMO) were Phil (who?) Simms, and Bavaro. Kudos for that. And YES, he obviously drafted the other core players, but again, he was getting input from Parcells, and apparently ignoring input from Reeves.
After that, I see a lot of bad.
- Feuding with both Parcells and Reeves (to the detriment of the team, with Reeves)
- Picking Handley over Belichick? Ouch.
- Picking Gary Zimmermann over Reggie White. OUCH! Then not even signing Zim. With RW AND LT, they probably would have had more SBs.
- NEVER trading up or down in the draft.
- Pathetically slow to embrace Free Agency.
From 79-97 here are his first round pure dud misses:
- Butch Woolfolk
- George Adams
- Jarrod Bunch
- Derek Brown
- Dave Brown
- Ty Wheatley
- Thomas Lewis
The only blue chip 1st rounders were LT, Simms, Banks, and Hampton. 4 in 18 years.
- Cedrick Jones over Marvin Harrison
- Couldn't evaluate WRs to save his life.
I'd sooner give the gold jacket to Simms. He (IMO) was far more responsible for the two SB wins -- even for the one he didn't play in -- he won 10 games before getting hurt.
But that's just me.
ship from the pathetic 70's era.
At least that's my memory
ship from the pathetic 70's era.
He turned us from laughing stock doormats to 2 time SB champs. What more do you want? Why nitpick his poor picks, everyone has them. Its impossible to hit 100%.
Clearly the HOF committee thinks otherwise.
Bill Walsh called Bavaro the best TE in the league. Unsolicited praise from the guy who said Joe Montana was a scrub he could easily replace.
Bavaro was the modern prototype inline TE.
But sure let’s cherry pick his bad picks only to invent some dumbass argument against him.
If anyone doesn’t think half the GMs in the league wouldn’t have whiffed in that spot and not drafted LT, you haven’t been paying attention to the NFL for that long.
George Young deserves 100% credit for the LT pick
But sure let’s cherry pick his bad picks only to invent some dumbass argument against him.
Wasn't Strahan a Young 2nd round pick?
Interesting note , when they show all
the Super Bowls watch Super 5 Cowboys vs Colts, George was coaching Colts O-Line.
Yup, spot on...I was still stuck in the 80s thinking about Young
Point being - we all know he flubbed the early days of free agency, the Hampton contract was a disaster, the Zimmerman/Reggie White story, etc
But to hold his mistakes up as an argument he doesn’t deserve the HoF is absurd.
One of his most underrated decisions, IMO, is sticking with Parcells after the 83 season. Imagine the reaction now in the media, on BBI, etc had the Giants kept a young unproven coach after a 3-12-1 disaster now
The one thing he did I could never understand was why he would not consider Bill Bellichick for the HC job after Parcells left in 91. Instead gave it to Ray Handley and it was a disaster. Other than that, he was the best GM we ever had
And Amani Toomer too.
I fault him for not being ready to replace Parcells when Parcells kept him hanging in terms of whether he was retiring. I would have parted ways with Tuna without waiting for his decision. In near desperation, Young promoted Handley.
And we all know that Dave Brown was a lousy choice. He lacked a quick release and was essentially immobile.
I fault him for not being ready to replace Parcells when Parcells kept him hanging in terms of whether he was retiring. I would have parted ways with Tuna without waiting for his decision. In near desperation, Young promoted Handley.
And we all know that Dave Brown was a lousy choice. He lacked a quick release and was essentially immobile.
A couple of things on your post. The drafting of offensive lineman was a combination of 2 of George Young tenets of drafting
1) Cluster drafting- ie: if you had a position of need, draft multiple prospects at that position because you will have greater odds of finding a hit. Now, keep in mind, when he did this, he had a 12 round draft, there was no real free agency (Plan B free agency), and no salary cap, so you really had to build roughly 80 of your roster though the draft
2) Planet Theory- that was the idea that there were only a handful of large people on the planet who are athletic enough to play football, so when you get a big OL/DL who can play, you take them.
As for Parcells, we've talked about this on BBI many times. Young didn't think Belichick was going to be a good coach, he thought his personality would hold him back. Handley was on the staff since the mid 1980s and he coached with Parcells at Air Force. Handley tried to leave to go to law school, but Parcells and Young both talked him out of it and made him OC. He was considered a very smart x's and o's coach and a young offensive mind after 2 defensive coaches. Young and Parcells were both aligned, they were both wrong.
And Dave Brown has a lot of faults. But he wasn't immobile. He actually could scramble a bit. His 4 rushing TDs in a season is the highest total by a Giants QB in the past 40 years. And he rushed for over 200 yards one year, only 1 of 3 QBs to do so in the past 30 years (Hostetler and Jones were the others). It's a good thing Brown could run a little, or else he'd have been killed behind Greg Bishop and Lance Smith.
Doubt it. Look how long it took Harry Carson to get in.
Actually, I didn't discount ANY of that at all. I gave him credit for drafting the core of the players that led to the two SBs.
I took him to task for a lot of other faults.
But if he'd actually HIT more of the 1st rounders or taken Reggie White over Zimmerman, there might have been a LOT more SBs. If he hadn't been so dreadfully wrong on Ray Handley over Belichick, or Dave Brown, there might have been more SBs.
Never mind that when Parcells and Belichick left, they stopped winning them. Nosferatu got in. Enjoy it.
Personally, I think Acorssi was a LOT better.
Quote:
One of the best LBrs to play the game -ask Bill Belichek
Bill Walsh called Bavaro the best TE in the league. Unsolicited praise from the guy who said Joe Montana was a scrub he could easily replace.
Bavaro was the modern prototype inline TE.
Bavaro...my all time favorite Giant. Unfortunately he was never the same player after his devastating knee injury. Had he had another 2 healthy seasons, he gets in the hall easily.