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NFT: So what is going happen with Carlos Beltran?

micky : 1/15/2020 10:08 am
Fired, safe, or ignore his part in whole thing?
Good question  
Dr. D : 1/15/2020 10:11 am : link
I got nothin
I think the key will be was he up front and honest with the Mets  
Stu11 : 1/15/2020 10:11 am : link
when he interviewed, and as details of this have come out. If he was then no matter his role I think he's safe. If he lied all bets are off.
He may or may not have a Twitter burner account...  
Dunedin81 : 1/15/2020 10:13 am : link
that defends him. Things like that are stupid and petty but could tip the scales.
Link - ( New Window )
This is the one time  
figgy2989 : 1/15/2020 10:14 am : link
I hope the Wilpon's MO of being cheap comes in to play! They can't fire him because they would then owe him money.

Seriously though, Beltran was not punished by MLB, but needs to be punished by the Mets, who had nothing to do with the 2017 Astros?

For those calling for Beltran to be fired, do you also want suspensions for all players involved? Where does it end?
He a cheater on the level of the Black Sox  
arniefez : 1/15/2020 10:16 am : link
and a liar and he should be fired and blackballed.
RE: He a cheater on the level of the Black Sox  
figgy2989 : 1/15/2020 10:17 am : link
In comment 14780070 arniefez said:
Quote:
and a liar and he should be fired and blackballed.




RE: He a cheater on the level of the Black Sox  
figgy2989 : 1/15/2020 10:18 am : link
In comment 14780070 arniefez said:
Quote:
and a liar and he should be fired and blackballed.


Again, there was no punishment levied by Major League Baseball.
This is ridiculous! If the MLB didn't punish Beltran  
GiantBlue : 1/15/2020 10:19 am : link
then let him get with planning for managing the Mets this season.

If he does something similar with the Mets....then all bets are off....but the punishment is pretty steep and my feeling is that nothing this overt will be done again.

If MLB is worried about signs being stolen....then put headsets on the Manager's head and a small speaker in the pitcher's hat so a sign can be given without the catcher.

The catcher could also have the speaker so he will know how to position himself for the pitch.
What i'm hoping for  
cjac : 1/15/2020 10:20 am : link
is a press conf where he apologizes and we move on
arnie..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 1/15/2020 10:22 am : link
as always with the fair and balanced take.

Looks like he's trying to alienate Mets fans as well as he does it for Yankee fans!
RE: arnie..  
figgy2989 : 1/15/2020 10:23 am : link
In comment 14780086 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
as always with the fair and balanced take.

Looks like he's trying to alienate Mets fans as well as he does it for Yankee fans!


If this is his take on Beltran, what did he do when Pineda took a bath in pine tar before taking the mound a few years back? Did he call for a public execution?
Why would anything happen?  
Metnut : 1/15/2020 10:24 am : link
He's not being disciplined by major league baseball.

Does anyone who was on the Astros from 2017-2019 need to be banned from baseball?
RE: RE: arnie..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 1/15/2020 10:25 am : link
In comment 14780089 figgy2989 said:
Quote:
In comment 14780086 FatMan in Charlotte said:


Quote:


as always with the fair and balanced take.

Looks like he's trying to alienate Mets fans as well as he does it for Yankee fans!



If this is his take on Beltran, what did he do when Pineda took a bath in pine tar before taking the mound a few years back? Did he call for a public execution?


No. He blamed Cashman and ownership...
RE: Why would anything happen?  
figgy2989 : 1/15/2020 10:25 am : link
In comment 14780091 Metnut said:
Quote:
He's not being disciplined by major league baseball.

Does anyone who was on the Astros from 2017-2019 need to be banned from baseball?


Metsnut, that is my point as well. Where will it end? The only reason Beltran is being mentioned now is because he is no longer a player and protected by the union.

Thereís no way  
Br00klyn : 1/15/2020 10:27 am : link
He should keep his job, the Mets have to fire him. He was one of the masterminds of this cheating scandal and the mets will hurt themselves more if they keep him around.
I donít get it  
Rflairr : 1/15/2020 10:29 am : link
If None of the Astros players are being punished. Why should he?
He cheated, one bang a fastball two bangs a curve  
gtt350 : 1/15/2020 10:29 am : link
imagine the backlash in visiting ballparks.
The..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 1/15/2020 10:29 am : link
word Mastermind has been used way too often the past couple of days. I know one guy it is pissing off:

RE: Thereís no way  
figgy2989 : 1/15/2020 10:30 am : link
In comment 14780098 Br00klyn said:
Quote:
He should keep his job, the Mets have to fire him. He was one of the masterminds of this cheating scandal and the mets will hurt themselves more if they keep him around.


I keep seeing this "mastermind" phrase being thrown around. If he was indeed played that role, then why did MLB suspend Hinch/Lunhow and are about to come down on Cora? But the real "mastermind" gets away scott free? Come on, you guys can't really believe that, right?

By the way, is there an actual article or report out there that calls Beltran the ring leader in this?
RE: Thereís no way  
DanMetroMan : 1/15/2020 10:30 am : link
In comment 14780098 Br00klyn said:
Quote:
He should keep his job, the Mets have to fire him. He was one of the masterminds of this cheating scandal and the mets will hurt themselves more if they keep him around.


Absolutely ZERO evidence he was "one of the masterminds". Thanks though. He was mentioned ONCE in the report. Cora... 11 times.
can we end this ridiculous media  
Rory : 1/15/2020 10:30 am : link
narrative that Beltran was the "mastermind" of the scandal.

Beltran's name was mentioned once

RE: RE: RE: arnie..  
Greg from LI : 1/15/2020 10:30 am : link
In comment 14780094 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
No. He blamed Cashman and ownership...


Randal blames Cashman when his car gets a flat tire.
Beltran interviewed  
pjcas18 : 1/15/2020 10:31 am : link
and was hired by the Mets BEFORE the Fiers interview with the Athletic was published, and the jomboy tweets providing the evidence.

It's highly possible this never came up in any Mets interviews.
Francesa said he's probably safe  
bceagle05 : 1/15/2020 10:31 am : link
so count on him being fired.
dmm, figgy, FMIC  
Rory : 1/15/2020 10:32 am : link
great minds think alike

RE: dmm, figgy, FMIC  
FatMan in Charlotte : 1/15/2020 10:32 am : link
In comment 14780114 Rory said:
Quote:
great minds think alike


When 4 people agree on something within seconds on BBI - it is a cold, hard fact!
also someone needs  
Rory : 1/15/2020 10:33 am : link
to shut down metsblog forums, too many idiots
He has to go  
averagejoe : 1/15/2020 10:37 am : link
He lied multiple times to the press regarding his involvement in the sign stealing fiasco and he was one of the primary players. His credibility is shot already. With two WS winning managers dismissed already Mets cannot justify keeping a rookie MGR under these circumstances.
This is bordering on "cancel culture" now  
Chris684 : 1/15/2020 10:38 am : link
Punishment has been handed out.

1 GM and 2 managers across 2 different franchises, 4 draft picks and $5 million in fines.

What more could anyone possibly want?
And Pete Rose  
moaltch : 1/15/2020 10:38 am : link
is still not even eligible to be elected to the Hall of Fame. Joke
I wouldn't expect  
pjcas18 : 1/15/2020 10:39 am : link
a statement from Beltran.

From what I've read MLB has instructed people not to discuss it (at least it sounds that way).

I would expect MLB to put out a statement explaining the lack of player punishment (including Beltran) though I think we all can understand why they aren't disciplining the players.

and I think MLB is probably waiting for the Red Sox investigation to wrap before releasing that statement.

Punishing players is problematic because of the MLBPA. You would have to punish all the players including former Astros players (and who knows, maybe Red Sox players), who in any way benefited or knew about it and then you have large amounts of players facing disciplinary action of some type and the MLBPA would appeal and the rules were sketchy in 2017 and from the MLB perspective it would likely throw gas on a simmering fire.

Punishing only those in authority probably makes the most sense for MLB.

RE: He has to go  
Rory : 1/15/2020 10:44 am : link
In comment 14780126 averagejoe said:
Quote:
He lied multiple times to the press regarding his involvement in the sign stealing fiasco and he was one of the primary players. His credibility is shot already. With two WS winning managers dismissed already Mets cannot justify keeping a rookie MGR under these circumstances.


IMO, it all depends on if he lied to Mets ownership during the interview process?

I would have to imagine he didn't which could explain why Beltran knew he had protection and refused to interview with other teams.

Quite honestly I could give a f*** about him lying to the NY media. Most of those people (specifically beat writers) are liars in their own right

If he comes out and issues a formally apology and confirms Mets management already had knowledge then hit him with a fine for a charitable cause and lets move on.
PJ  
DanMetroMan : 1/15/2020 10:45 am : link
that has already been explained. Players spoke in exchange for immunity.
I think the league owes it to the Mets  
bigbluehoya : 1/15/2020 10:49 am : link
who are 100% innocent bystanders in all of this, to announce definitively, and soon, whether or not Beltran faces any discipline for this.

I presume that the answer is "no" given that he was a player in the known incidents, and I'm perfectly OK with that.

But the Mets deserve the clarity, and the opportunity to get on with their business as planned, or adjust accordingly.
RE: PJ  
pjcas18 : 1/15/2020 10:52 am : link
In comment 14780149 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
that has already been explained. Players spoke in exchange for immunity.


thanks, I didn't know that. I read early on that Beltran spoke with MLB and was very forthcoming and cooperative. Didn't know they got immunity.

If true, what's the noise about?

punishing players who have moved on, has rippling impacts of this that would punish unintended targets, I doubt mlb wants that anyway.
The Wilpons will get enormous negative press  
Earl the goat : 1/15/2020 11:14 am : link
And fold and fire Beltran
RE: He has to go  
allstarjim : 1/15/2020 11:20 am : link
In comment 14780126 averagejoe said:
Quote:
He lied multiple times to the press regarding his involvement in the sign stealing fiasco and he was one of the primary players. His credibility is shot already. With two WS winning managers dismissed already Mets cannot justify keeping a rookie MGR under these circumstances.


So? Everybody lies to the press. Often times, the press lies, too. Who cares? Nothing will happen, that's what I think.
The only way I could see them firing him is just that  
jcn56 : 1/15/2020 11:20 am : link
if for some reason the media doesn't let go of the whole thing and it ends up being a distraction.

I think Beltran would be best served just addressing it head on, apologizing for the part he played, saying he learned his lesson and moving on (if he hasn't done so already). The fans have a relatively short memory, I doubt it lingers for very long.
It all depends on his contract  
crackerjack465 : 1/15/2020 11:21 am : link
if the Mets would be on the hook for his entire contract since he wasn't disciplined for the scandal, then I don't think they fire him.

If it's a scenario like the Giants have with Golden Tate, where discipline against him in 2019 means part of his contract is voided and they can move on without the financial liability, then I think they fire him.

From what it sounds like, he won't get disciplined. So unless they have some type of mutual agreement where he leaves and only collects a small % of his salary, I don't think he is fired.
At  
mitch300 : 1/15/2020 11:36 am : link
First I thought they should fire him. Then I realized after Hinch serves his suspension he most likely will get another coaching job. Since Beltran was not suspended, he should not be fired. However, if the Mets asked him if he did do it and he was not truthful to them, then all bets are off.
The  
mitch300 : 1/15/2020 11:41 am : link
Mets should at least come out and say that he is their manager for the season. Not saying anything is having him twisting in the wind.
Yeah, I think the Mets should back him.  
bceagle05 : 1/15/2020 11:44 am : link
People are overstating how much of a controversy this will be once the season starts. No one comes to games to see the manager make pitching changes. Once spring training starts it'll be all about deGrom, Syndergaard, Cespedes, Alonso and the rest of the gang. Beltran just needs to endure one awkward press conference.
I don't think he should be fired  
moespree : 1/15/2020 11:45 am : link
He should make a public statement though and then that's it. It's a tricky thing though because the Mets had nothing to do with it and will now be roped into it. Also suspending or having to fire him penalizes the Mets, for something they had no part of which is certainly an unfair result for them. That's what makes it difficult.

I don't have a feel one way or another for what is going to happen. My guess it comes down to whether or not Beltran was honest with them. If he at any point lied to them about something with this then I would guess he probably won't last.
How would the Yankees have handled it ?  
Ron from Ninerland : 1/15/2020 12:11 pm : link
I think we all know the answer to that. They would have either made a strong statement of support by now or they would have shitcaned him. Typical Mets are going to let him twist in the wind
If he wasn't the mastermind then  
Stan in LA : 1/15/2020 12:25 pm : link
He was the ringleader!

Fire him!
RE: How would the Yankees have handled it ?  
Drewcon40 : 1/15/2020 12:28 pm : link
In comment 14780312 Ron from Ninerland said:
Quote:
I think we all know the answer to that. They would have either made a strong statement of support by now or they would have shitcaned him. Typical Mets are going to let him twist in the wind


I don't think this is as definitive as you purport. There are a lot of factors that were stated in this thread that does not make this an easy decision. Everyone knows the Mets operate with an eye towards money. This is likely a complicated decision based on the impending sale to Cohen. Perhaps they already spoke to Carlos and he is aware of his fate?
no need to speculate  
RasputinPrime : 1/15/2020 12:43 pm : link
we will all find out shortly. Not good for baseball regardless.

I remember The Boss being kicked out of baseball for a few years and i'd prefer the heaviest sanctions come down on the owners who by proxy facilitated the cheating. You hit the owners in the mouth and you can be sure they won't leave anyone involved unflayed.
wanted to add something positive to the thread  
RasputinPrime : 1/15/2020 12:44 pm : link
Baseball made a decision  
Vanzetti : 1/15/2020 12:46 pm : link
That coaches and GMs would be held responsible and players would not be punished.

Obviously that is motivated by $$$ because baseball does not want to ban guys like Altuve and Springer for a year. Also what about guys like Cole who had to know about it even though they were not direct participants?Is that fair?

Probably not. But it is a clear cut criterion and that in itself is a virtue.

Since Beltran was a player at the time, he avoids a penalty. For the Mets to penalize him, would completely muddy the waters.
Damn...  
moze1021 : 1/15/2020 12:54 pm : link
This thing is over..everyone needs to let it go.

People cheat... some of them just got caught.

Now chill out and move on... and wait for the next round of cheaters to get caught..

RE: Baseball made a decision  
Chris684 : 1/15/2020 12:56 pm : link
In comment 14780369 Vanzetti said:
Quote:
That coaches and GMs would be held responsible and players would not be punished.

Obviously that is motivated by $$$ because baseball does not want to ban guys like Altuve and Springer for a year. Also what about guys like Cole who had to know about it even though they were not direct participants?Is that fair?

Probably not. But it is a clear cut criterion and that in itself is a virtue.

Since Beltran was a player at the time, he avoids a penalty. For the Mets to penalize him, would completely muddy the waters.


You bring up a great point.

Should any member of the Astros over that time span face penalty for not speaking up about what they surely knew was going on?

I would end this thing right where it is, but itís a reasonable question to ask.

The  
DanMetroMan : 1/15/2020 1:13 pm : link
Mets have let go 2 of the analytical "specialists" they hired last year...(unrelated to Beltran of course).
,  
DanMetroMan : 1/15/2020 1:22 pm : link

Jarrett Seidler
@jaseidler

3m
Hereís what the Mets currently have as an analytics department according to their own website: Guttridge as AGM, a ďbaseball systems and development manager,Ē and ONE research analyst. One.

Not every team lists every contractor and intern and such. But still.
RE: I donít get it  
LTIsTheGreatest : 1/15/2020 1:48 pm : link
In comment 14780102 Rflairr said:
Quote:
If None of the Astros players are being punished. Why should he?


because he is no longer a player and cannot be protected by the Players union. So he can be disciplined if MLB so chooses without a fight form the MLBPA
RE: RE: I donít get it  
Eman11 : 1/15/2020 1:56 pm : link
In comment 14780544 LTIsTheGreatest said:
Quote:
In comment 14780102 Rflairr said:


Quote:


If None of the Astros players are being punished. Why should he?



because he is no longer a player and cannot be protected by the Players union. So he can be disciplined if MLB so chooses without a fight form the MLBPA


I'm not so sure about that as you're talking about penalizing him for something that happened when he was a player. I would think he'd fall under their protection in that instance.

Now if they have something on him he did after playing that's a different story.
The Astros and even the Sox...  
Dunedin81 : 1/15/2020 2:11 pm : link
might be able to succeed in a termination for cause. The problem for the Mets is that they probably wouldn't be, unless he lied demonstrably in the interview (would also depend on the language of the contract). I don't think money would be the dominating factor but - all kidding aside - it's the Mets and the new sheriff isn't in town yet so who knows?
with regards to Beltran possibly lying during the Interview  
pjcas18 : 1/15/2020 2:23 pm : link
again, timing doesn't line up - based on what I've read. The Mets interviewed and hired Beltran BEFORE the Fiers interview with the Athletic, and before Jomboy tweets aligning the trash can bangs with pitches forced MLB to investigate.

I was not in the interviews obviously, but I would not be surprised if this topic never came up while Beltran weas interviewing with the Mets, so I doubt he lied or misled the Mets on this topic.
I didn't think anything  
giantsfan227B : 1/15/2020 2:26 pm : link
until I saw this report come out on Bleacher Report. So far they are hitting the nail on the head with stories on who will be hired, fired and other rumors.

Bleacher Report references this video saying Mets are starting to waver on their decision to hire Beltran.
Link - ( New Window )
I can believe the whole Mets "wavering" thing  
moespree : 1/15/2020 2:31 pm : link
It's completely in character for them to leave everyone twisting in the wind and not be able to make a solid decision and stick with it.

I've changed my mind on what I think they will do. My guess is now they will fire him.
FWIW  
sphinx : 1/15/2020 2:35 pm : link
QT @S0_blessed1
My Tio Carlos is stepping down as Mets manager <span class="emoji-outer emoji-sizer"><span class="emoji-inner" style="background: url(chrome-extension://immhpnclomdloikkpcefncmfgjbkojmh/emoji-data/sheet_apple_32.png);background-position:61.98589894242068% 24.030552291421856%;background-size:5418.75% 5418.75%" data-codepoints="1f622"></span></span>

2:11pm ∑ 15 Jan 2020

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

QT
@S0_blessed1
No Autographs! Simple girl in a difficult city. Texas Longhorns🤘🏼Alum : Struggling med student - My favorite Uncle @Carlosbeltran15 ❤️

Joined Mar 2017



RE: I didn't think anything  
giantsfan227B : 1/15/2020 2:52 pm : link
In comment 14780625 giantsfan227B said:
Quote:
until I saw this report come out on Bleacher Report. So far they are hitting the nail on the head with stories on who will be hired, fired and other rumors.

Bleacher Report references this video saying Mets are starting to waver on their decision to hire Beltran. Link - ( New Window )


The funny thing is I have seen so many Yankee fan announcers or ex-players such as Teixeira and Sabathia come out and say the Yankees were robbed and the Mets should fire Beltran and yet where was Beltran last season? With the Yankees and Cora had no issue saying without saying Beltran is their biggest asset (wink wink). I don't think the Yankees were totally innocent as I don't think the Res Sox and Astros are the only teams doing this.
Said it in the other thread, but still feel the same.  
jpkmets : 1/15/2020 2:58 pm : link
Mets should fire Beltran if he lied to them about this during the interview process.

If he came clean with them, and they felt comfortable regardless, they shouldnít now try to curry favor with MLB and writers and fire their manager, who was not disciplined by MLB.

If they didnít ask him about this, then Brodie should be fired today. But my general opinion is that the blame for this is on management with the Astros. They got the directives from MLB - including the one after the Apple Watch deal in 2017, not the players.

Beltran would be in a whole different situation had he done anything along these lines as management in 2018, I think.

Wilpons will probably fire him despite him previously disclosing to them, just because they are weak, weak men.
They would've hammered Beltran  
bceagle05 : 1/15/2020 3:00 pm : link
if they found any evidence of wrongdoing while with the Yankees - he was an executive at that point, not a player. The 2017 Astros investigation led MLB to the 2018 Red Sox - I'm sure they looked into Beltran with the Yankees, too. Yankees have had plenty of controversies over the years - including Chapman and German recently - we can sit this one out for a change.
RE: with regards to Beltran possibly lying during the Interview  
jpkmets : 1/15/2020 3:08 pm : link
In comment 14780617 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
again, timing doesn't line up - based on what I've read. The Mets interviewed and hired Beltran BEFORE the Fiers interview with the Athletic, and before Jomboy tweets aligning the trash can bangs with pitches forced MLB to investigate.

I was not in the interviews obviously, but I would not be surprised if this topic never came up while Beltran weas interviewing with the Mets, so I doubt he lied or misled the Mets on this topic.


Well, itís possible that industry scuttlebutt had this on the radar before the Fiers article, in which case they asked him. However, even the Mets would have had to call him up immediately after the Fiers article and ask him to divulge his role.

Mets will can him if 1) he lied to them during the interview process or after the story broke or 2) they feel like the press will call them out as bad people if they retain him.

I think 2 is more likely. Would not surprise me for Beltran to resign under pretense of sparing the team from controversy.

Either way, typical Wilpon bullshit that the team is thus far silent. They canít leave soon enough due to their unique combo of cheapness, weakness, and desire to pander to Selig or Manfred. No juevos in our ownership group at all.
The Mets may fire  
pjcas18 : 1/15/2020 3:16 pm : link
him due to media pressure, but the Mets are far from a morally upstanding organization. Let's be honest.

They fired a pregnant, single mom because she wasn't married.

They nominated previously suspended for DV, Jose Reyes, for the Marvin Miller award.

They were complicit (or just really fortunate if you're naive) in Madoff

I'm sure there is more, but this isn't exactly a zero tolerance business.

I seriously doubt they fire Beltran because he lied or wasn't forthcoming.

PR pressure or money are reasons I'd believe, maybe.

If they do fire him what do we think they do?  
moespree : 1/15/2020 3:23 pm : link
Give it to his bench coach that they hired? Or go with what was thought to be the runner up Perez? It's unique since it's not in season, so I guess they could do a whole interview process again if they wanted.
You would think the Mets would want to get ahead of this  
figgy2989 : 1/15/2020 3:23 pm : link
And issue a statement either way.

I really hope they don't fire him based on media backlash.

RE: If they do fire him what do we think they do?  
figgy2989 : 1/15/2020 3:24 pm : link
In comment 14780726 moespree said:
Quote:
Give it to his bench coach that they hired? Or go with what was thought to be the runner up Perez? It's unique since it's not in season, so I guess they could do a whole interview process again if they wanted.


Well both the Astros and Red Sox are in the same boat and one would think those would be more attractive destinations for someone who would want to win now.
This is what the report actually said about Beltran...  
Torrag : 1/15/2020 3:31 pm : link
two months into the 2017 season, a group of players, including
Carlos BeltrŠn, discussed that the team could improve on decoding opposing teamsí signs
and communicating the signs to the batter.


So the team had devised a cheating method. They were cheating. Then Beltran and other players, who should also be named BTW as it's unfair to list only Beltran imo, improved the method of relaying the information to the field. Are the others being shielded because they are still active on the field? That's BS.

That doesn't seem to me to warrant being suspended/fined by MLB if no one else was or fired by the Mets. IMO.
It's a mob mentality...  
Dunedin81 : 1/15/2020 3:34 pm : link
if he survives the next two weeks, he's probably fine. The mob will dissipate for find another target and the worst he'll get is the stray razzing from road crowds.
RE: You would think the Mets would want to get ahead of this  
pjcas18 : 1/15/2020 3:37 pm : link
In comment 14780727 figgy2989 said:
Quote:
And issue a statement either way.

I really hope they don't fire him based on media backlash.


I read MLB issued a "gag order" on this topic, so if true, I doubt they can issue a statement.

my guess is mlb is waiting for the Red Sox investigation to be wrapped up and then put this whole thing to bed.
RE: Why would anything happen?  
Darth Paul : 1/15/2020 3:37 pm : link
In comment 14780091 Metnut said:
Quote:
He's not being disciplined by major league baseball.

Does anyone who was on the Astros from 2017-2019 need to be banned from baseball?


Could not agree more.
LOL here it comes....  
pjcas18 : 1/15/2020 3:44 pm : link


Mike Puma
@NYPost_Mets
∑ 9m
ďIntegrityĒ is a huge franchise buzzword with the Mets - especially with Fred Wilpon - to the point there is legitimate concern for Carlos Beltranís job at the moment.
RE: This is what the report actually said about Beltran...  
RDJR : 1/15/2020 3:45 pm : link
In comment 14780740 Torrag said:
Quote:
two months into the 2017 season, a group of players, including
Carlos BeltrŠn, discussed that the team could improve on decoding opposing teamsí signs
and communicating the signs to the batter.

So the team had devised a cheating method. They were cheating. Then Beltran and other players, who should also be named BTW as it's unfair to list only Beltran imo, improved the method of relaying the information to the field. Are the others being shielded because they are still active on the field? That's BS.

That doesn't seem to me to warrant being suspended/fined by MLB if no one else was or fired by the Mets. IMO.


They named him because the other players are still active and protected by the CBA and the MLBPA. Beltran is not.
We all know what's going to happen  
moespree : 1/15/2020 3:51 pm : link
Fred only cares about PR. He will do his usual leave everyone twisting in the wind routine, dragging it out (which actually always gets him worse PR ironically) before finally either firing him or having Beltran resign. That's Fred through and through.
RE: LOL here it comes....  
Chris684 : 1/15/2020 3:51 pm : link
In comment 14780758 pjcas18 said:
Quote:


Mike Puma
@NYPost_Mets
∑ 9m
ďIntegrityĒ is a huge franchise buzzword with the Mets - especially with Fred Wilpon - to the point there is legitimate concern for Carlos Beltranís job at the moment.


For fuck's sake...

I can't believe this is going to happen.
Did Puma really need to tweet that with "Integrity".?  
Drewcon40 : 1/15/2020 3:55 pm : link
The material writes itself. Do they go back to the 57 other candidates they interviewed? I'll wait until a decision is made but I get the feeling this is going to drag out.
My question is this:  
montanagiant : 1/15/2020 3:55 pm : link
Beltran was a player when this occurred. If he gets punished shouldn't the other 23 players they claim were involved be punished also?
'because the other players are still active and protected'  
Torrag : 1/15/2020 3:56 pm : link
Then don't name anyone. That's basic fairness.
And, here it is?  
speedywheels : 1/15/2020 3:57 pm : link
A rumor - for now, anyway..
Linky - ( New Window )
RE: LOL here it comes....  
DanMetroMan : 1/15/2020 3:58 pm : link
In comment 14780758 pjcas18 said:
Quote:


Mike Puma
@NYPost_Mets
∑ 9m
ďIntegrityĒ is a huge franchise buzzword with the Mets - especially with Fred Wilpon - to the point there is legitimate concern for Carlos Beltranís job at the moment.


Madoff, Reyes, Familia, Jeff's sexual harassment... should I go on? lol
RE: My question is this:  
speedywheels : 1/15/2020 3:59 pm : link
In comment 14780778 montanagiant said:
Quote:
Beltran was a player when this occurred. If he gets punished shouldn't the other 23 players they claim were involved be punished also?


MLB doesn't want to get into a protracted battle with the MLBPA - Beltran isn't an active player, so easier to punish
RE: 'because the other players are still active and protected'  
RDJR : 1/15/2020 4:10 pm : link
In comment 14780779 Torrag said:
Quote:
Then don't name anyone. That's basic fairness.


Different rules apply to different employee groups. Management employees or those unprotected by the provisions of a CBA or contract always get named in an employment investigation (which this is most similar to).
.  
DanMetroMan : 1/15/2020 4:13 pm : link

IB 🔌
@incarceratedbob

4m
Source: Mets have an announcement on it's way
RE: RE: My question is this:  
Dunedin81 : 1/15/2020 4:14 pm : link
In comment 14780784 speedywheels said:
Quote:
In comment 14780778 montanagiant said:


Quote:


Beltran was a player when this occurred. If he gets punished shouldn't the other 23 players they claim were involved be punished also?



MLB doesn't want to get into a protracted battle with the MLBPA - Beltran isn't an active player, so easier to punish


And his being fired isn't a league punishment (nor are the firings of Cora and Hinch, for that matter).
he's probably  
Burt64 : 1/15/2020 4:14 pm : link
stepping down
'Different rules apply to different employee groups.'  
Torrag : 1/15/2020 4:15 pm : link
BS. They included his name because they wanted to bolster their report with someone recognizable and they 'could' by rule. It wasn't 'illegal' but it was unfair to name him as the only player because the rest are 'shielded'. Still call BS.
I do not consider him a source  
pjcas18 : 1/15/2020 4:16 pm : link
but FWIW incarceratedbob says Mets have an announcement coming.

I hate when the jackals get their way

and I am one of those people who feel like the manager of a baseball team has a limited impact, but caving to the frothing pitchfork crowd is a brutally weak move.
Cancel culture  
Chris684 : 1/15/2020 4:20 pm : link
The new normal

Sad
Multiple Sources  
giantsfan227B : 1/15/2020 4:31 pm : link
Saying Mets have a "pending announcement."

One tweet I saw from someone that claims Beltran is her uncle is that he is stepping down from the Mets manager position.
any chance this announcement is...  
Drewcon40 : 1/15/2020 4:34 pm : link
...that they are keeping Beltran?
Mike  
DanMetroMan : 1/15/2020 4:39 pm : link
Silva claims a source tells him Beltran is stepping down.
I think Beltran is gone.  
giantsfan227B : 1/15/2020 4:46 pm : link
Dallas Braden
@DALLASBRADEN209

1h
This is the public perception aspect I was referring to. Iím not saying it lasts a week or a month or however long. Iím saying if Beltran & the Mets can ďwear itĒ & they feel the clubhouse can survive it, then maybe they move fwd. IMO the ?ís never stop coming.

This all just sucks so much. AC is a great baseball mind. Beltran wasnít getting fed pitches via video as a player and the pedigree of these guys should not be forgotten. You donít fake it for 13 & 19 years in the show. That said, Itís just CRAZY to watch this unfold.

Letís consider this:
Does a Beltran resignation & his designation as a PLAYER when this began, void him of any punishment?

A mutually agreed upon split by Cora & SOX could be viewed as Cora putting the Org ahead of himself & a resignation from Beltran could seen similarly.


Link - ( New Window )
Unreal.  
moze1021 : 1/15/2020 6:25 pm : link
So dumb.

Kills my excitement for the season.

Well let me try to add something rather than just bitch .  
moze1021 : 1/15/2020 6:46 pm : link
Given the media obsession with this event, which I find way overblown, I guess the Mets and Beltran do have to ask if they want to deal with it.

Resigning/firing is the easiest path.

So no doubt now that's the path Mets take.

A franchise that has failed to establish a culture and identity for 30 years, trying to emulate or copy what they think the media wants vs making strong in-house decisions, is absolutely going to break here.

Now the question.. who the F manages the Mets on 2020??
He cant be  
Rolyrock : 1/15/2020 6:53 pm : link
The face of the franchise. He is a BIG cheat and liar. He never won with the Mets. He struck out in the biggest moments making a zillion dollars. He is a sour puss loser who had to cheat to win in the world series with another team. That's how the rest of baseball fandom sees him. But hey the Wilpons are losers, happy to play on fan loyalty to make profits with no chance to win world series. So mybe a good match. Pathetic.
RE: RE: I donít get it  
section125 : 1/15/2020 6:54 pm : link
In comment 14780544 LTIsTheGreatest said:
Quote:
In comment 14780102 Rflairr said:


Quote:


If None of the Astros players are being punished. Why should he?



because he is no longer a player and cannot be protected by the Players union. So he can be disciplined if MLB so chooses without a fight form the MLBPA


He was a player at the time...
RE: He cant be  
moze1021 : 1/15/2020 7:00 pm : link
In comment 14780992 Rolyrock said:
Quote:
The face of the franchise. He is a BIG cheat and liar. He never won with the Mets. He struck out in the biggest moments making a zillion dollars. He is a sour puss loser who had to cheat to win in the world series with another team. That's how the rest of baseball fandom sees him. But hey the Wilpons are losers, happy to play on fan loyalty to make profits with no chance to win world series. So mybe a good match. Pathetic.


Anyone who doesn't respect and value Beltran's time as a Mets player automatically loses all credibility.

Anyone bringing up the Cards AB..pathetic.

I mean shit...I seriously don't understand how people can get so mad at this stuff... The vast majority of players we grew up with were cheaters. Every Mets fans favorite turn of the century favorite player was a cheater.

I wonder when all this vitriol will start for all of the other players  
PhiPsi125 : 1/15/2020 7:02 pm : link
that possibly participated/orchestrated the cheating?

Based on the media reaction and these amazingly predictable threads, people should be clamoring for half of the Astros players to resign and walk away from the game, right?
RE: I wonder when all this vitriol will start for all of the other players  
moze1021 : 1/15/2020 7:09 pm : link
In comment 14781001 PhiPsi125 said:
Quote:
that possibly participated/orchestrated the cheating?

Based on the media reaction and these amazingly predictable threads, people should be clamoring for half of the Astros players to resign and walk away from the game, right?


And never be allowed to work in baseball again.


Despite the fact that we have no idea if other teams did this and just didn't get caught
Mets Hot Stove  
giantsfan227B : 1/15/2020 7:13 pm : link
Had some interesting points this evening.

1) Why does Carlos Beltran appear at all in the 7 page report? Joe Torre before the 2018 season started said only managers, upper management and owners would face penalties. No players would face fines, suspensions etc.. That was to get players to talk. So if that is the case why mention his name at all.
A) A little wink wink Mets that you may want to consider getting rid of him.
B) Try to embarrass him for lying to Joel Sherman.

In either case the Mets better be very careful here. Yes they could fire him but on what grounds. MLB said we aren't punishing him. If the Mets fire him he can sue saying I was asked to testify on grounds there would be no punishment.

They should wait. There is no rush to judge him. Get all of the info and then come out and say he is our man. Saying it immediately could make them look foolish as would firing him without all info. They can do their due diligence but at the end of the day, if MLB said testify and nothing will happen to you because you were a player, they shouldn't worry UNLESS

they look at Beltran being an adviser with the Yankees last year as an management position. Cora stated Beltran was their best off-season acquisition and he even winked after the Boston-Yankees series in LDN which seemed to indicate he knew they were stealing signs.
The Mets should have balls  
Chris684 : 1/15/2020 7:16 pm : link
And release a statement that they are sticking with Beltran.

If they want to, let Beltran issue a token apology and end it there.

If Beltran has to step down, what happens to the ALL of the other Astros players who, at a minimum, knew this was going on but didnít say anything?
RE: RE: He cant be  
Rolyrock : 1/15/2020 7:33 pm : link

I agree with your points on cheating and I guess lying. That's why I dont dont watch it any more. They are all cheats and liars. Millionaires. I listen on the radio fishing I like the sound.

The face of the franchise. He is a BIG cheat and liar. He never won with the Mets. He struck out in the biggest moments making a zillion dollars. He is a sour puss loser who had to cheat to win in the world series with another team. That's how the rest of baseball fandom sees him. But hey the Wilpons are losers, happy to play on fan loyalty to make profits with no chance to win world series. So mybe a good match. Pathetic.



Anyone who doesn't respect and value Beltran's time as a Mets player automatically loses all credibility.

Anyone bringing up the Cards AB..pathetic.

I mean shit...I seriously don't understand how people can get so mad at this stuff... The vast majority of players we grew up with were cheaters. Every Mets fans favorite turn of the century favorite player was a cheater.
[/quote]
RE: RE: RE: I donít get it  
Eman11 : 1/15/2020 7:37 pm : link
In comment 14780995 section125 said:
Quote:
In comment 14780544 LTIsTheGreatest said:


Quote:


In comment 14780102 Rflairr said:


Quote:


If None of the Astros players are being punished. Why should he?



because he is no longer a player and cannot be protected by the Players union. So he can be disciplined if MLB so chooses without a fight form the MLBPA



He was a player at the time...


That's my take too section.

I can't imagine he wouldn't be protected by the MLBPA for anything that happened when he was a player.
People are too focused on factual arguments pro and con  
rich in DC : 1/15/2020 7:48 pm : link
For the majority of non-NY sports fans and media, the facts are NOT going to matter- the perception does. You never win in the court of public opinion when perception is against you.

The Mets are already in a bad PR position to start with- the Wilpons do not have a good rep outside NY- and have run the team as a mid-market club despite having the NY media market to play in. Fans outside NY are just looking for reasons to bury the Mets and the Wilpons.

We already saw that Yahoo Sports has an article up basically concluding that Beltran had to go. That's just the start.

The Mets are now in a no-win situation. If they quickly fire Beltran, media and others won't care about the timeline showing the cheating scandal broke after he was hired- they will believe that the Mets messed up. If the Mets try and weather the storm, the Mets will become the focus on media and fan ire- and even eventually relenting and firing Beltran won't ease the storm.

IMO, the best-case scenario for the Mets would be for Beltran to resign tomorrow, and face the media to own up to what he did- and try to exonorate the Mets as best he can.

The Red Sox realized that there was no feasible way that they could keep Cora and acted very quickly. The knew the media would be relentless- and they have their own scandal that they will have to own up to. Having a handy scapegoat helps get out from under the scandal.

The Mets need to get Beltran to take the blame, resign, and own this- and move the focus off the team.
Stealing signs is a hundred years old....  
Jerry's Kids : 1/15/2020 7:49 pm : link
Way to stay relevant baseball. I suppose it needs to be enforced with the technology available, but the outrage is nauseating. Every team has a system. I mean is how naive is our culture.
RE: We all know what's going to happen  
jpkmets : 1/15/2020 8:00 pm : link
In comment 14780771 moespree said:
Quote:
Fred only cares about PR. He will do his usual leave everyone twisting in the wind routine, dragging it out (which actually always gets him worse PR ironically) before finally either firing him or having Beltran resign. That's Fred through and through.


Yup, a final Wilpon ball-less move to make us all wish for ownership change sooner. Gutless owner. Anyone with some guts has made a statement by now. Fred is always caving to public opinion and always doing it wrong.

Canít wait until his family is done with the Mets.
RE: Stealing signs is a hundred years old....  
moze1021 : 1/15/2020 8:38 pm : link
In comment 14781047 Jerry's Kids said:
Quote:
Way to stay relevant baseball. I suppose it needs to be enforced with the technology available, but the outrage is nauseating. Every team has a system. I mean is how naive is our culture.


Exactly!!
RE: Stealing signs is a hundred years old....  
FatMan in Charlotte : 1/15/2020 9:20 pm : link
In comment 14781047 Jerry's Kids said:
Quote:
Way to stay relevant baseball. I suppose it needs to be enforced with the technology available, but the outrage is nauseating. Every team has a system. I mean is how naive is our culture.


Do you understand the fundamental why signs are stolen?

Because knowing the pitch greatly increases your odds to get a hit. There is a massive difference between figuring out a sign system and relaying them from second base to having cameras monitor the signs and transmit the data in real time so the batter can be alerted.

If a batter knows the pitch, his job is tremendously easier. He only has to pick a zone and watch the release point and initial trajectory of the ball to see if it will be a strike or not. Off speed pitches lose the element of surprise. Sliders become easy to decipher if they will be in the zone or not. It is not outrageous to say a batter will have a .075 or more advantage in the long run in those situations.

RE: He cant be  
Rory : 1/15/2020 9:54 pm : link
In comment 14780992 Rolyrock said:
Quote:
The face of the franchise. He is a BIG cheat and liar. He never won with the Mets. He struck out in the biggest moments making a zillion dollars. He is a sour puss loser who had to cheat to win in the world series with another team. That's how the rest of baseball fandom sees him. But hey the Wilpons are losers, happy to play on fan loyalty to make profits with no chance to win world series. So mybe a good match. Pathetic.


only loser i see is this rolyrock fuck
RE: RE: Stealing signs is a hundred years old....  
moze1021 : 1/15/2020 10:30 pm : link
In comment 14781146 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
In comment 14781047 Jerry's Kids said:


Quote:


Way to stay relevant baseball. I suppose it needs to be enforced with the technology available, but the outrage is nauseating. Every team has a system. I mean is how naive is our culture.



Do you understand the fundamental why signs are stolen?

Because knowing the pitch greatly increases your odds to get a hit. There is a massive difference between figuring out a sign system and relaying them from second base to having cameras monitor the signs and transmit the data in real time so the batter can be alerted.

If a batter knows the pitch, his job is tremendously easier. He only has to pick a zone and watch the release point and initial trajectory of the ball to see if it will be a strike or not. Off speed pitches lose the element of surprise. Sliders become easy to decipher if they will be in the zone or not. It is not outrageous to say a batter will have a .075 or more advantage in the long run in those situations.


Yeah I think that's understood...

I'm pretty sure the point was..cheating always has existed, always will. Astros got caught. To think they were the only ones doing it is naive. Seems now we already have whispers that Red Sox and Yankees may have dabbled in a system just by way of having Cora and Beltran.
LOL..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 1/15/2020 10:39 pm : link
there are "whispers" the Red Sox "dabbled in" cheating.

Are you fucking kidding?
RE: The Mets should have balls  
shockeyisthebest8056 : 1/15/2020 11:31 pm : link
In comment 14781013 Chris684 said:
Quote:
And release a statement that they are sticking with Beltran.

If they want to, let Beltran issue a token apology and end it there.

If Beltran has to step down, what happens to the ALL of the other Astros players who, at a minimum, knew this was going on but didnít say anything?


I don't think he needs to step down or be fired. But the GM and the owner should get in front of the press and say Beltran knows the current rules, the expectations of the league and organization, and (we're) confident he won't put this opportunity to manage in jeopardy.

If they really like Beltran, there's no need to give the press a pound of flesh (as Shurmur said).
RE: LOL..  
moze1021 : 1/16/2020 6:12 am : link
In comment 14781233 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
there are "whispers" the Red Sox "dabbled in" cheating.

Are you fucking kidding?


Nope

I mean maybe semantic issues with my choice of words... Suspicion?
The Red Sox..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 1/16/2020 8:14 am : link
were using the replay room to transmit signs.

Is that semantical?
If I am Mets Senior MGMT  
JPinstripes : 1/16/2020 8:20 am : link
I am sticking with Beltran unless he is suspended from MLB. None of the players involved are resigning or getting suspended from their jobs. Next...
RE: The Red Sox..  
moze1021 : 1/16/2020 9:55 am : link
In comment 14781353 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
were using the replay room to transmit signs.

Is that semantical?


Oh cool... I thought you were saying I was making it up re: Red Sox..

You're just expanding the point... many other teams likely doing this. People gotta chill out and look for the systemic solution, not just make an example out of 1 case and act like it's a rogue actor.
Dude..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 1/16/2020 9:59 am : link
this isn't one case! The Astros system and the Red Sox systems are two separate things.

Are you trying to say that the Red Sox using video to steal signs and pass it along is just a rumor or that they weren't doing it at all?

These aren't "whispers" or hints at "dabbling". It is full-blown cheating and you'll see the extent when Cora gets punished. They are actually discussing a lifetime ban - although I think it will be less harsh than that.
Morrison said Yankees and Dodgers did it too  
Vanzetti : 1/16/2020 10:15 am : link
Both teams have been playing the victim when it comes to the Astros, but why would Morrison include them if it were not true?

Maybe he just doesn't like Big Money teams. Possible I guess. But where there is smoke there is usually fire.
RE: Morrison said Yankees and Dodgers did it too  
Metnut : 1/16/2020 10:25 am : link
In comment 14781517 Vanzetti said:
Quote:
Both teams have been playing the victim when it comes to the Astros, but why would Morrison include them if it were not true?

Maybe he just doesn't like Big Money teams. Possible I guess. But where there is smoke there is usually fire.


Is there a link to support this?
The other thing is  
Vanzetti : 1/16/2020 10:26 am : link
Stealing signs is part of baseball culture and has been going on for over a hundred years.

There were guys who stayed in the big leagues just because they were adept at stealing signs.

Using video and digital technology obviously takes it to a different level. But to me, baseball has been remiss in not updating their policies to keep up with technology. Manfred's sole job is to monitor baseball and it never occurred to him that teams might be stealing signs in this way?

It's like a teacher who discovers their students have been texting all year and then suddenly goes ballistic. Yeah, the students are at fault but so is the teacher. Ditto for Manfred.

RE: RE: Morrison said Yankees and Dodgers did it too  
Vanzetti : 1/16/2020 10:27 am : link
In comment 14781535 Metnut said:
Quote:
In comment 14781517 Vanzetti said:


Quote:


Both teams have been playing the victim when it comes to the Astros, but why would Morrison include them if it were not true?

Maybe he just doesn't like Big Money teams. Possible I guess. But where there is smoke there is usually fire.



Is there a link to support this?


It's on Morrison's twitter. Just google Logan Morrison cheating
I'd love..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 1/16/2020 10:29 am : link
to know the guys who stayed in the league because they were adept at stealing signs.

Not understanding the difference between doing something overtly vs. doing it covertly to an entirely different level is either being willfully ignorant or just being downright stupid.
Logan Morrison is a whiny bitch with an ax to grind  
Greg from LI : 1/16/2020 10:30 am : link
with the Yankees. He's probably still crying about not being asked to do the 2017 home run derby.
Also, the issue is not stealing signs  
Greg from LI : 1/16/2020 10:31 am : link
Yes, everyone does that. The issue is using technology to do it in real time, something that not everyone does, and something that all teams were specifically warned to not do by MLB in 2017.
RE: Dude..  
moze1021 : 1/16/2020 10:40 am : link
In comment 14781477 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
this isn't one case! The Astros system and the Red Sox systems are two separate things.

Are you trying to say that the Red Sox using video to steal signs and pass it along is just a rumor or that they weren't doing it at all?

These aren't "whispers" or hints at "dabbling". It is full-blown cheating and you'll see the extent when Cora gets punished. They are actually discussing a lifetime ban - although I think it will be less harsh than that.


Not sure why you are getting angry at me.. I didn't know the Red Sox events were already fact, I though they were still just rumors.

To me its all the same.. lots of teams probably using technology to steal signs. Astros got caught and they are getting the Bonds/Clemens treatment while other teams skate by and get treated like Piazza and enter the HOF with no issue..


RE: Logan Morrison is a whiny bitch with an ax to grind  
Eman11 : 1/16/2020 10:46 am : link
In comment 14781544 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
with the Yankees. He's probably still crying about not being asked to do the 2017 home run derby.


Yup, that's was exactly my take when I heard he had made those comments.
Stealing signs  
JPinstripes : 1/16/2020 10:46 am : link
without technology is part of the game - it's cat and mouse AND dog.

It's like bluffing in poker, reading the opponent's eyes and other physical body movements and facial experssions.

To me baseball is the one sport that needs less technology... Umps missing a call or having the strike zone expand or shrink based on game day variables is part of the game, providing the calls are consistent for both teams.
RE: Also, the issue is not stealing signs  
moze1021 : 1/16/2020 10:47 am : link
In comment 14781550 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
Yes, everyone does that. The issue is using technology to do it in real time, something that not everyone does, and something that all teams were specifically warned to not do by MLB in 2017.


I think it's too early to know the degree to which your statement "something that not everyone does" is true... did 1 team do it? 2 teams? 15 teams? 25 teams?

We might never know.
RE: Stealing signs  
FatMan in Charlotte : 1/16/2020 10:50 am : link
In comment 14781582 JPinstripes said:
Quote:
without technology is part of the game - it's cat and mouse AND dog.

It's like bluffing in poker, reading the opponent's eyes and other physical body movements and facial experssions.

To me baseball is the one sport that needs less technology... Umps missing a call or having the strike zone expand or shrink based on game day variables is part of the game, providing the calls are consistent for both teams.


That's a really good analogy. Imagine the difference between reading a bluff and having video showing a player's hole cards. There's actually a case right now of a guy in the Bay Area using video to see opponents hole cards and he's been banned for life from a whole slew of casinos and he's facing criminal charges.
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