That coaches and GMs would be held responsible and players would not be punished.
Obviously that is motivated by $$$ because baseball does not want to ban guys like Altuve and Springer for a year. Also what about guys like Cole who had to know about it even though they were not direct participants?Is that fair?
Probably not. But it is a clear cut criterion and that in itself is a virtue.
Since Beltran was a player at the time, he avoids a penalty. For the Mets to penalize him, would completely muddy the waters.
You bring up a great point.
Should any member of the Astros over that time span face penalty for not speaking up about what they surely knew was going on?
I would end this thing right where it is, but its a reasonable question to ask.
3m
Heres what the Mets currently have as an analytics department according to their own website: Guttridge as AGM, a baseball systems and development manager, and ONE research analyst. One.
Not every team lists every contractor and intern and such. But still.
If None of the Astros players are being punished. Why should he?
because he is no longer a player and cannot be protected by the Players union. So he can be disciplined if MLB so chooses without a fight form the MLBPA
If None of the Astros players are being punished. Why should he?
because he is no longer a player and cannot be protected by the Players union. So he can be disciplined if MLB so chooses without a fight form the MLBPA
I'm not so sure about that as you're talking about penalizing him for something that happened when he was a player. I would think he'd fall under their protection in that instance.
Now if they have something on him he did after playing that's a different story.
might be able to succeed in a termination for cause. The problem for the Mets is that they probably wouldn't be, unless he lied demonstrably in the interview (would also depend on the language of the contract). I don't think money would be the dominating factor but - all kidding aside - it's the Mets and the new sheriff isn't in town yet so who knows?
with regards to Beltran possibly lying during the Interview
again, timing doesn't line up - based on what I've read. The Mets interviewed and hired Beltran BEFORE the Fiers interview with the Athletic, and before Jomboy tweets aligning the trash can bangs with pitches forced MLB to investigate.
I was not in the interviews obviously, but I would not be surprised if this topic never came up while Beltran weas interviewing with the Mets, so I doubt he lied or misled the Mets on this topic.
until I saw this report come out on Bleacher Report. So far they are hitting the nail on the head with stories on who will be hired, fired and other rumors.
Bleacher Report references this video saying Mets are starting to waver on their decision to hire Beltran. Link - ( New Window )
QT @S0_blessed1
My Tio Carlos is stepping down as Mets manager <span class="emoji-outer emoji-sizer"><span class="emoji-inner" style="background: url(chrome-extension://immhpnclomdloikkpcefncmfgjbkojmh/emoji-data/sheet_apple_32.png);background-position:61.98589894242068% 24.030552291421856%;background-size:5418.75% 5418.75%" data-codepoints="1f622"></span></span>
2:11pm 15 Jan 2020
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
QT
@S0_blessed1
No Autographs! Simple girl in a difficult city. Texas Longhorns🤘🏼Alum : Struggling med student - My favorite Uncle @Carlosbeltran15 ❤️
until I saw this report come out on Bleacher Report. So far they are hitting the nail on the head with stories on who will be hired, fired and other rumors.
Bleacher Report references this video saying Mets are starting to waver on their decision to hire Beltran. Link - ( New Window )
The funny thing is I have seen so many Yankee fan announcers or ex-players such as Teixeira and Sabathia come out and say the Yankees were robbed and the Mets should fire Beltran and yet where was Beltran last season? With the Yankees and Cora had no issue saying without saying Beltran is their biggest asset (wink wink). I don't think the Yankees were totally innocent as I don't think the Res Sox and Astros are the only teams doing this.
Said it in the other thread, but still feel the same.
Mets should fire Beltran if he lied to them about this during the interview process.
If he came clean with them, and they felt comfortable regardless, they shouldnt now try to curry favor with MLB and writers and fire their manager, who was not disciplined by MLB.
If they didnt ask him about this, then Brodie should be fired today. But my general opinion is that the blame for this is on management with the Astros. They got the directives from MLB - including the one after the Apple Watch deal in 2017, not the players.
Beltran would be in a whole different situation had he done anything along these lines as management in 2018, I think.
Wilpons will probably fire him despite him previously disclosing to them, just because they are weak, weak men.
if they found any evidence of wrongdoing while with the Yankees - he was an executive at that point, not a player. The 2017 Astros investigation led MLB to the 2018 Red Sox - I'm sure they looked into Beltran with the Yankees, too. Yankees have had plenty of controversies over the years - including Chapman and German recently - we can sit this one out for a change.
RE: with regards to Beltran possibly lying during the Interview
again, timing doesn't line up - based on what I've read. The Mets interviewed and hired Beltran BEFORE the Fiers interview with the Athletic, and before Jomboy tweets aligning the trash can bangs with pitches forced MLB to investigate.
I was not in the interviews obviously, but I would not be surprised if this topic never came up while Beltran weas interviewing with the Mets, so I doubt he lied or misled the Mets on this topic.
Well, its possible that industry scuttlebutt had this on the radar before the Fiers article, in which case they asked him. However, even the Mets would have had to call him up immediately after the Fiers article and ask him to divulge his role.
Mets will can him if 1) he lied to them during the interview process or after the story broke or 2) they feel like the press will call them out as bad people if they retain him.
I think 2 is more likely. Would not surprise me for Beltran to resign under pretense of sparing the team from controversy.
Either way, typical Wilpon bullshit that the team is thus far silent. They cant leave soon enough due to their unique combo of cheapness, weakness, and desire to pander to Selig or Manfred. No juevos in our ownership group at all.
Give it to his bench coach that they hired? Or go with what was thought to be the runner up Perez? It's unique since it's not in season, so I guess they could do a whole interview process again if they wanted.
You would think the Mets would want to get ahead of this
Give it to his bench coach that they hired? Or go with what was thought to be the runner up Perez? It's unique since it's not in season, so I guess they could do a whole interview process again if they wanted.
Well both the Astros and Red Sox are in the same boat and one would think those would be more attractive destinations for someone who would want to win now.
This is what the report actually said about Beltran...
two months into the 2017 season, a group of players, including
Carlos Beltrn, discussed that the team could improve on decoding opposing teams signs
and communicating the signs to the batter.
So the team had devised a cheating method. They were cheating. Then Beltran and other players, who should also be named BTW as it's unfair to list only Beltran imo, improved the method of relaying the information to the field. Are the others being shielded because they are still active on the field? That's BS.
That doesn't seem to me to warrant being suspended/fined by MLB if no one else was or fired by the Mets. IMO.
if he survives the next two weeks, he's probably fine. The mob will dissipate for find another target and the worst he'll get is the stray razzing from road crowds.
RE: You would think the Mets would want to get ahead of this
Mike Puma
@NYPost_Mets
9m
Integrity is a huge franchise buzzword with the Mets - especially with Fred Wilpon - to the point there is legitimate concern for Carlos Beltrans job at the moment.
RE: This is what the report actually said about Beltran...
two months into the 2017 season, a group of players, including
Carlos Beltrn, discussed that the team could improve on decoding opposing teams signs
and communicating the signs to the batter.
So the team had devised a cheating method. They were cheating. Then Beltran and other players, who should also be named BTW as it's unfair to list only Beltran imo, improved the method of relaying the information to the field. Are the others being shielded because they are still active on the field? That's BS.
That doesn't seem to me to warrant being suspended/fined by MLB if no one else was or fired by the Mets. IMO.
They named him because the other players are still active and protected by the CBA and the MLBPA. Beltran is not.
Fred only cares about PR. He will do his usual leave everyone twisting in the wind routine, dragging it out (which actually always gets him worse PR ironically) before finally either firing him or having Beltran resign. That's Fred through and through.
Mike Puma
@NYPost_Mets
9m
Integrity is a huge franchise buzzword with the Mets - especially with Fred Wilpon - to the point there is legitimate concern for Carlos Beltrans job at the moment.
For fuck's sake...
I can't believe this is going to happen.
Did Puma really need to tweet that with "Integrity".?
The material writes itself. Do they go back to the 57 other candidates they interviewed? I'll wait until a decision is made but I get the feeling this is going to drag out.
Mike Puma
@NYPost_Mets
9m
Integrity is a huge franchise buzzword with the Mets - especially with Fred Wilpon - to the point there is legitimate concern for Carlos Beltrans job at the moment.
Madoff, Reyes, Familia, Jeff's sexual harassment... should I go on? lol
Different rules apply to different employee groups. Management employees or those unprotected by the provisions of a CBA or contract always get named in an employment investigation (which this is most similar to).
BS. They included his name because they wanted to bolster their report with someone recognizable and they 'could' by rule. It wasn't 'illegal' but it was unfair to name him as the only player because the rest are 'shielded'. Still call BS.
but FWIW incarceratedbob says Mets have an announcement coming.
I hate when the jackals get their way
and I am one of those people who feel like the manager of a baseball team has a limited impact, but caving to the frothing pitchfork crowd is a brutally weak move.
1h
This is the public perception aspect I was referring to. Im not saying it lasts a week or a month or however long. Im saying if Beltran & the Mets can wear it & they feel the clubhouse can survive it, then maybe they move fwd. IMO the ?s never stop coming.
This all just sucks so much. AC is a great baseball mind. Beltran wasnt getting fed pitches via video as a player and the pedigree of these guys should not be forgotten. You dont fake it for 13 & 19 years in the show. That said, Its just CRAZY to watch this unfold.
Lets consider this:
Does a Beltran resignation & his designation as a PLAYER when this began, void him of any punishment?
A mutually agreed upon split by Cora & SOX could be viewed as Cora putting the Org ahead of himself & a resignation from Beltran could seen similarly.
Given the media obsession with this event, which I find way overblown, I guess the Mets and Beltran do have to ask if they want to deal with it.
Resigning/firing is the easiest path.
So no doubt now that's the path Mets take.
A franchise that has failed to establish a culture and identity for 30 years, trying to emulate or copy what they think the media wants vs making strong in-house decisions, is absolutely going to break here.
Now the question.. who the F manages the Mets on 2020??
The face of the franchise. He is a BIG cheat and liar. He never won with the Mets. He struck out in the biggest moments making a zillion dollars. He is a sour puss loser who had to cheat to win in the world series with another team. That's how the rest of baseball fandom sees him. But hey the Wilpons are losers, happy to play on fan loyalty to make profits with no chance to win world series. So mybe a good match. Pathetic.
If None of the Astros players are being punished. Why should he?
because he is no longer a player and cannot be protected by the Players union. So he can be disciplined if MLB so chooses without a fight form the MLBPA
The face of the franchise. He is a BIG cheat and liar. He never won with the Mets. He struck out in the biggest moments making a zillion dollars. He is a sour puss loser who had to cheat to win in the world series with another team. That's how the rest of baseball fandom sees him. But hey the Wilpons are losers, happy to play on fan loyalty to make profits with no chance to win world series. So mybe a good match. Pathetic.
Anyone who doesn't respect and value Beltran's time as a Mets player automatically loses all credibility.
Anyone bringing up the Cards AB..pathetic.
I mean shit...I seriously don't understand how people can get so mad at this stuff... The vast majority of players we grew up with were cheaters. Every Mets fans favorite turn of the century favorite player was a cheater.
I wonder when all this vitriol will start for all of the other players
that possibly participated/orchestrated the cheating?
Based on the media reaction and these amazingly predictable threads, people should be clamoring for half of the Astros players to resign and walk away from the game, right?
RE: I wonder when all this vitriol will start for all of the other players
that possibly participated/orchestrated the cheating?
Based on the media reaction and these amazingly predictable threads, people should be clamoring for half of the Astros players to resign and walk away from the game, right?
And never be allowed to work in baseball again.
Despite the fact that we have no idea if other teams did this and just didn't get caught
Obviously that is motivated by $$$ because baseball does not want to ban guys like Altuve and Springer for a year. Also what about guys like Cole who had to know about it even though they were not direct participants?Is that fair?
Probably not. But it is a clear cut criterion and that in itself is a virtue.
Since Beltran was a player at the time, he avoids a penalty. For the Mets to penalize him, would completely muddy the waters.
You bring up a great point.
Should any member of the Astros over that time span face penalty for not speaking up about what they surely knew was going on?
I would end this thing right where it is, but its a reasonable question to ask.
Jarrett Seidler
@jaseidler
3m
Heres what the Mets currently have as an analytics department according to their own website: Guttridge as AGM, a baseball systems and development manager, and ONE research analyst. One.
Not every team lists every contractor and intern and such. But still.
because he is no longer a player and cannot be protected by the Players union. So he can be disciplined if MLB so chooses without a fight form the MLBPA
Quote:
If None of the Astros players are being punished. Why should he?
because he is no longer a player and cannot be protected by the Players union. So he can be disciplined if MLB so chooses without a fight form the MLBPA
I'm not so sure about that as you're talking about penalizing him for something that happened when he was a player. I would think he'd fall under their protection in that instance.
Now if they have something on him he did after playing that's a different story.
I was not in the interviews obviously, but I would not be surprised if this topic never came up while Beltran weas interviewing with the Mets, so I doubt he lied or misled the Mets on this topic.
Bleacher Report references this video saying Mets are starting to waver on their decision to hire Beltran.
Link - ( New Window )
I've changed my mind on what I think they will do. My guess is now they will fire him.
My Tio Carlos is stepping down as Mets manager <span class="emoji-outer emoji-sizer"><span class="emoji-inner" style="background: url(chrome-extension://immhpnclomdloikkpcefncmfgjbkojmh/emoji-data/sheet_apple_32.png);background-position:61.98589894242068% 24.030552291421856%;background-size:5418.75% 5418.75%" data-codepoints="1f622"></span></span>
2:11pm 15 Jan 2020
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
QT
@S0_blessed1
No Autographs! Simple girl in a difficult city. Texas Longhorns🤘🏼Alum : Struggling med student - My favorite Uncle @Carlosbeltran15 ❤️
Joined Mar 2017
Bleacher Report references this video saying Mets are starting to waver on their decision to hire Beltran. Link - ( New Window )
The funny thing is I have seen so many Yankee fan announcers or ex-players such as Teixeira and Sabathia come out and say the Yankees were robbed and the Mets should fire Beltran and yet where was Beltran last season? With the Yankees and Cora had no issue saying without saying Beltran is their biggest asset (wink wink). I don't think the Yankees were totally innocent as I don't think the Res Sox and Astros are the only teams doing this.
If he came clean with them, and they felt comfortable regardless, they shouldnt now try to curry favor with MLB and writers and fire their manager, who was not disciplined by MLB.
If they didnt ask him about this, then Brodie should be fired today. But my general opinion is that the blame for this is on management with the Astros. They got the directives from MLB - including the one after the Apple Watch deal in 2017, not the players.
Beltran would be in a whole different situation had he done anything along these lines as management in 2018, I think.
Wilpons will probably fire him despite him previously disclosing to them, just because they are weak, weak men.
I was not in the interviews obviously, but I would not be surprised if this topic never came up while Beltran weas interviewing with the Mets, so I doubt he lied or misled the Mets on this topic.
Well, its possible that industry scuttlebutt had this on the radar before the Fiers article, in which case they asked him. However, even the Mets would have had to call him up immediately after the Fiers article and ask him to divulge his role.
Mets will can him if 1) he lied to them during the interview process or after the story broke or 2) they feel like the press will call them out as bad people if they retain him.
I think 2 is more likely. Would not surprise me for Beltran to resign under pretense of sparing the team from controversy.
Either way, typical Wilpon bullshit that the team is thus far silent. They cant leave soon enough due to their unique combo of cheapness, weakness, and desire to pander to Selig or Manfred. No juevos in our ownership group at all.
They fired a pregnant, single mom because she wasn't married.
They nominated previously suspended for DV, Jose Reyes, for the Marvin Miller award.
They were complicit (or just really fortunate if you're naive) in Madoff
I'm sure there is more, but this isn't exactly a zero tolerance business.
I seriously doubt they fire Beltran because he lied or wasn't forthcoming.
PR pressure or money are reasons I'd believe, maybe.
I really hope they don't fire him based on media backlash.
Well both the Astros and Red Sox are in the same boat and one would think those would be more attractive destinations for someone who would want to win now.
Carlos Beltrn, discussed that the team could improve on decoding opposing teams signs
and communicating the signs to the batter.
So the team had devised a cheating method. They were cheating. Then Beltran and other players, who should also be named BTW as it's unfair to list only Beltran imo, improved the method of relaying the information to the field. Are the others being shielded because they are still active on the field? That's BS.
That doesn't seem to me to warrant being suspended/fined by MLB if no one else was or fired by the Mets. IMO.
I really hope they don't fire him based on media backlash.
I read MLB issued a "gag order" on this topic, so if true, I doubt they can issue a statement.
my guess is mlb is waiting for the Red Sox investigation to be wrapped up and then put this whole thing to bed.
Does anyone who was on the Astros from 2017-2019 need to be banned from baseball?
Could not agree more.
Mike Puma
@NYPost_Mets
9m
Integrity is a huge franchise buzzword with the Mets - especially with Fred Wilpon - to the point there is legitimate concern for Carlos Beltrans job at the moment.
Carlos Beltrn, discussed that the team could improve on decoding opposing teams signs
and communicating the signs to the batter.
So the team had devised a cheating method. They were cheating. Then Beltran and other players, who should also be named BTW as it's unfair to list only Beltran imo, improved the method of relaying the information to the field. Are the others being shielded because they are still active on the field? That's BS.
That doesn't seem to me to warrant being suspended/fined by MLB if no one else was or fired by the Mets. IMO.
They named him because the other players are still active and protected by the CBA and the MLBPA. Beltran is not.
Mike Puma
@NYPost_Mets
9m
Integrity is a huge franchise buzzword with the Mets - especially with Fred Wilpon - to the point there is legitimate concern for Carlos Beltrans job at the moment.
For fuck's sake...
I can't believe this is going to happen.
Linky - ( New Window )
Mike Puma
@NYPost_Mets
9m
Integrity is a huge franchise buzzword with the Mets - especially with Fred Wilpon - to the point there is legitimate concern for Carlos Beltrans job at the moment.
Madoff, Reyes, Familia, Jeff's sexual harassment... should I go on? lol
MLB doesn't want to get into a protracted battle with the MLBPA - Beltran isn't an active player, so easier to punish
Different rules apply to different employee groups. Management employees or those unprotected by the provisions of a CBA or contract always get named in an employment investigation (which this is most similar to).
IB 🔌
@incarceratedbob
4m
Source: Mets have an announcement on it's way
Quote:
Beltran was a player when this occurred. If he gets punished shouldn't the other 23 players they claim were involved be punished also?
MLB doesn't want to get into a protracted battle with the MLBPA - Beltran isn't an active player, so easier to punish
And his being fired isn't a league punishment (nor are the firings of Cora and Hinch, for that matter).
I hate when the jackals get their way
and I am one of those people who feel like the manager of a baseball team has a limited impact, but caving to the frothing pitchfork crowd is a brutally weak move.
Sad
One tweet I saw from someone that claims Beltran is her uncle is that he is stepping down from the Mets manager position.
@DALLASBRADEN209
1h
This is the public perception aspect I was referring to. Im not saying it lasts a week or a month or however long. Im saying if Beltran & the Mets can wear it & they feel the clubhouse can survive it, then maybe they move fwd. IMO the ?s never stop coming.
This all just sucks so much. AC is a great baseball mind. Beltran wasnt getting fed pitches via video as a player and the pedigree of these guys should not be forgotten. You dont fake it for 13 & 19 years in the show. That said, Its just CRAZY to watch this unfold.
Lets consider this:
Does a Beltran resignation & his designation as a PLAYER when this began, void him of any punishment?
A mutually agreed upon split by Cora & SOX could be viewed as Cora putting the Org ahead of himself & a resignation from Beltran could seen similarly.
Link - ( New Window )
Kills my excitement for the season.
Resigning/firing is the easiest path.
So no doubt now that's the path Mets take.
A franchise that has failed to establish a culture and identity for 30 years, trying to emulate or copy what they think the media wants vs making strong in-house decisions, is absolutely going to break here.
Now the question.. who the F manages the Mets on 2020??
Quote:
If None of the Astros players are being punished. Why should he?
because he is no longer a player and cannot be protected by the Players union. So he can be disciplined if MLB so chooses without a fight form the MLBPA
He was a player at the time...
Anyone who doesn't respect and value Beltran's time as a Mets player automatically loses all credibility.
Anyone bringing up the Cards AB..pathetic.
I mean shit...I seriously don't understand how people can get so mad at this stuff... The vast majority of players we grew up with were cheaters. Every Mets fans favorite turn of the century favorite player was a cheater.
Based on the media reaction and these amazingly predictable threads, people should be clamoring for half of the Astros players to resign and walk away from the game, right?
Based on the media reaction and these amazingly predictable threads, people should be clamoring for half of the Astros players to resign and walk away from the game, right?
And never be allowed to work in baseball again.
Despite the fact that we have no idea if other teams did this and just didn't get caught