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NFT: So what is going happen with Carlos Beltran?

micky : 1/15/2020 10:08 am
Fired, safe, or ignore his part in whole thing?
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RE: Baseball made a decision  
Chris684 : 1/15/2020 12:56 pm : link
In comment 14780369 Vanzetti said:
Quote:
That coaches and GMs would be held responsible and players would not be punished.

Obviously that is motivated by $$$ because baseball does not want to ban guys like Altuve and Springer for a year. Also what about guys like Cole who had to know about it even though they were not direct participants?Is that fair?

Probably not. But it is a clear cut criterion and that in itself is a virtue.

Since Beltran was a player at the time, he avoids a penalty. For the Mets to penalize him, would completely muddy the waters.


You bring up a great point.

Should any member of the Astros over that time span face penalty for not speaking up about what they surely knew was going on?

I would end this thing right where it is, but itís a reasonable question to ask.

The  
DanMetroMan : 1/15/2020 1:13 pm : link
Mets have let go 2 of the analytical "specialists" they hired last year...(unrelated to Beltran of course).
,  
DanMetroMan : 1/15/2020 1:22 pm : link

Jarrett Seidler
@jaseidler

3m
Hereís what the Mets currently have as an analytics department according to their own website: Guttridge as AGM, a ďbaseball systems and development manager,Ē and ONE research analyst. One.

Not every team lists every contractor and intern and such. But still.
RE: I donít get it  
LTIsTheGreatest : 1/15/2020 1:48 pm : link
In comment 14780102 Rflairr said:
Quote:
If None of the Astros players are being punished. Why should he?


because he is no longer a player and cannot be protected by the Players union. So he can be disciplined if MLB so chooses without a fight form the MLBPA
RE: RE: I donít get it  
Eman11 : 1/15/2020 1:56 pm : link
In comment 14780544 LTIsTheGreatest said:
Quote:
In comment 14780102 Rflairr said:


Quote:


If None of the Astros players are being punished. Why should he?



because he is no longer a player and cannot be protected by the Players union. So he can be disciplined if MLB so chooses without a fight form the MLBPA


I'm not so sure about that as you're talking about penalizing him for something that happened when he was a player. I would think he'd fall under their protection in that instance.

Now if they have something on him he did after playing that's a different story.
The Astros and even the Sox...  
Dunedin81 : 1/15/2020 2:11 pm : link
might be able to succeed in a termination for cause. The problem for the Mets is that they probably wouldn't be, unless he lied demonstrably in the interview (would also depend on the language of the contract). I don't think money would be the dominating factor but - all kidding aside - it's the Mets and the new sheriff isn't in town yet so who knows?
with regards to Beltran possibly lying during the Interview  
pjcas18 : 1/15/2020 2:23 pm : link
again, timing doesn't line up - based on what I've read. The Mets interviewed and hired Beltran BEFORE the Fiers interview with the Athletic, and before Jomboy tweets aligning the trash can bangs with pitches forced MLB to investigate.

I was not in the interviews obviously, but I would not be surprised if this topic never came up while Beltran weas interviewing with the Mets, so I doubt he lied or misled the Mets on this topic.
I didn't think anything  
giantsfan227B : 1/15/2020 2:26 pm : link
until I saw this report come out on Bleacher Report. So far they are hitting the nail on the head with stories on who will be hired, fired and other rumors.

Bleacher Report references this video saying Mets are starting to waver on their decision to hire Beltran.
Link - ( New Window )
I can believe the whole Mets "wavering" thing  
moespree : 1/15/2020 2:31 pm : link
It's completely in character for them to leave everyone twisting in the wind and not be able to make a solid decision and stick with it.

I've changed my mind on what I think they will do. My guess is now they will fire him.
FWIW  
sphinx : 1/15/2020 2:35 pm : link
QT @S0_blessed1
My Tio Carlos is stepping down as Mets manager <span class="emoji-outer emoji-sizer"><span class="emoji-inner" style="background: url(chrome-extension://immhpnclomdloikkpcefncmfgjbkojmh/emoji-data/sheet_apple_32.png);background-position:61.98589894242068% 24.030552291421856%;background-size:5418.75% 5418.75%" data-codepoints="1f622"></span></span>

2:11pm ∑ 15 Jan 2020

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

QT
@S0_blessed1
No Autographs! Simple girl in a difficult city. Texas Longhorns🤘🏼Alum : Struggling med student - My favorite Uncle @Carlosbeltran15 ❤️

Joined Mar 2017



RE: I didn't think anything  
giantsfan227B : 1/15/2020 2:52 pm : link
In comment 14780625 giantsfan227B said:
Quote:
until I saw this report come out on Bleacher Report. So far they are hitting the nail on the head with stories on who will be hired, fired and other rumors.

Bleacher Report references this video saying Mets are starting to waver on their decision to hire Beltran. Link - ( New Window )


The funny thing is I have seen so many Yankee fan announcers or ex-players such as Teixeira and Sabathia come out and say the Yankees were robbed and the Mets should fire Beltran and yet where was Beltran last season? With the Yankees and Cora had no issue saying without saying Beltran is their biggest asset (wink wink). I don't think the Yankees were totally innocent as I don't think the Res Sox and Astros are the only teams doing this.
Said it in the other thread, but still feel the same.  
jpkmets : 1/15/2020 2:58 pm : link
Mets should fire Beltran if he lied to them about this during the interview process.

If he came clean with them, and they felt comfortable regardless, they shouldnít now try to curry favor with MLB and writers and fire their manager, who was not disciplined by MLB.

If they didnít ask him about this, then Brodie should be fired today. But my general opinion is that the blame for this is on management with the Astros. They got the directives from MLB - including the one after the Apple Watch deal in 2017, not the players.

Beltran would be in a whole different situation had he done anything along these lines as management in 2018, I think.

Wilpons will probably fire him despite him previously disclosing to them, just because they are weak, weak men.
They would've hammered Beltran  
bceagle05 : 1/15/2020 3:00 pm : link
if they found any evidence of wrongdoing while with the Yankees - he was an executive at that point, not a player. The 2017 Astros investigation led MLB to the 2018 Red Sox - I'm sure they looked into Beltran with the Yankees, too. Yankees have had plenty of controversies over the years - including Chapman and German recently - we can sit this one out for a change.
RE: with regards to Beltran possibly lying during the Interview  
jpkmets : 1/15/2020 3:08 pm : link
In comment 14780617 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
again, timing doesn't line up - based on what I've read. The Mets interviewed and hired Beltran BEFORE the Fiers interview with the Athletic, and before Jomboy tweets aligning the trash can bangs with pitches forced MLB to investigate.

I was not in the interviews obviously, but I would not be surprised if this topic never came up while Beltran weas interviewing with the Mets, so I doubt he lied or misled the Mets on this topic.


Well, itís possible that industry scuttlebutt had this on the radar before the Fiers article, in which case they asked him. However, even the Mets would have had to call him up immediately after the Fiers article and ask him to divulge his role.

Mets will can him if 1) he lied to them during the interview process or after the story broke or 2) they feel like the press will call them out as bad people if they retain him.

I think 2 is more likely. Would not surprise me for Beltran to resign under pretense of sparing the team from controversy.

Either way, typical Wilpon bullshit that the team is thus far silent. They canít leave soon enough due to their unique combo of cheapness, weakness, and desire to pander to Selig or Manfred. No juevos in our ownership group at all.
The Mets may fire  
pjcas18 : 1/15/2020 3:16 pm : link
him due to media pressure, but the Mets are far from a morally upstanding organization. Let's be honest.

They fired a pregnant, single mom because she wasn't married.

They nominated previously suspended for DV, Jose Reyes, for the Marvin Miller award.

They were complicit (or just really fortunate if you're naive) in Madoff

I'm sure there is more, but this isn't exactly a zero tolerance business.

I seriously doubt they fire Beltran because he lied or wasn't forthcoming.

PR pressure or money are reasons I'd believe, maybe.

If they do fire him what do we think they do?  
moespree : 1/15/2020 3:23 pm : link
Give it to his bench coach that they hired? Or go with what was thought to be the runner up Perez? It's unique since it's not in season, so I guess they could do a whole interview process again if they wanted.
You would think the Mets would want to get ahead of this  
figgy2989 : 1/15/2020 3:23 pm : link
And issue a statement either way.

I really hope they don't fire him based on media backlash.

RE: If they do fire him what do we think they do?  
figgy2989 : 1/15/2020 3:24 pm : link
In comment 14780726 moespree said:
Quote:
Give it to his bench coach that they hired? Or go with what was thought to be the runner up Perez? It's unique since it's not in season, so I guess they could do a whole interview process again if they wanted.


Well both the Astros and Red Sox are in the same boat and one would think those would be more attractive destinations for someone who would want to win now.
This is what the report actually said about Beltran...  
Torrag : 1/15/2020 3:31 pm : link
two months into the 2017 season, a group of players, including
Carlos BeltrŠn, discussed that the team could improve on decoding opposing teamsí signs
and communicating the signs to the batter.


So the team had devised a cheating method. They were cheating. Then Beltran and other players, who should also be named BTW as it's unfair to list only Beltran imo, improved the method of relaying the information to the field. Are the others being shielded because they are still active on the field? That's BS.

That doesn't seem to me to warrant being suspended/fined by MLB if no one else was or fired by the Mets. IMO.
It's a mob mentality...  
Dunedin81 : 1/15/2020 3:34 pm : link
if he survives the next two weeks, he's probably fine. The mob will dissipate for find another target and the worst he'll get is the stray razzing from road crowds.
RE: You would think the Mets would want to get ahead of this  
pjcas18 : 1/15/2020 3:37 pm : link
In comment 14780727 figgy2989 said:
Quote:
And issue a statement either way.

I really hope they don't fire him based on media backlash.


I read MLB issued a "gag order" on this topic, so if true, I doubt they can issue a statement.

my guess is mlb is waiting for the Red Sox investigation to be wrapped up and then put this whole thing to bed.
RE: Why would anything happen?  
Darth Paul : 1/15/2020 3:37 pm : link
In comment 14780091 Metnut said:
Quote:
He's not being disciplined by major league baseball.

Does anyone who was on the Astros from 2017-2019 need to be banned from baseball?


Could not agree more.
LOL here it comes....  
pjcas18 : 1/15/2020 3:44 pm : link


Mike Puma
@NYPost_Mets
∑ 9m
ďIntegrityĒ is a huge franchise buzzword with the Mets - especially with Fred Wilpon - to the point there is legitimate concern for Carlos Beltranís job at the moment.
RE: This is what the report actually said about Beltran...  
RDJR : 1/15/2020 3:45 pm : link
In comment 14780740 Torrag said:
Quote:
two months into the 2017 season, a group of players, including
Carlos BeltrŠn, discussed that the team could improve on decoding opposing teamsí signs
and communicating the signs to the batter.

So the team had devised a cheating method. They were cheating. Then Beltran and other players, who should also be named BTW as it's unfair to list only Beltran imo, improved the method of relaying the information to the field. Are the others being shielded because they are still active on the field? That's BS.

That doesn't seem to me to warrant being suspended/fined by MLB if no one else was or fired by the Mets. IMO.


They named him because the other players are still active and protected by the CBA and the MLBPA. Beltran is not.
We all know what's going to happen  
moespree : 1/15/2020 3:51 pm : link
Fred only cares about PR. He will do his usual leave everyone twisting in the wind routine, dragging it out (which actually always gets him worse PR ironically) before finally either firing him or having Beltran resign. That's Fred through and through.
RE: LOL here it comes....  
Chris684 : 1/15/2020 3:51 pm : link
In comment 14780758 pjcas18 said:
Quote:


Mike Puma
@NYPost_Mets
∑ 9m
ďIntegrityĒ is a huge franchise buzzword with the Mets - especially with Fred Wilpon - to the point there is legitimate concern for Carlos Beltranís job at the moment.


For fuck's sake...

I can't believe this is going to happen.
Did Puma really need to tweet that with "Integrity".?  
Drewcon40 : 1/15/2020 3:55 pm : link
The material writes itself. Do they go back to the 57 other candidates they interviewed? I'll wait until a decision is made but I get the feeling this is going to drag out.
My question is this:  
montanagiant : 1/15/2020 3:55 pm : link
Beltran was a player when this occurred. If he gets punished shouldn't the other 23 players they claim were involved be punished also?
'because the other players are still active and protected'  
Torrag : 1/15/2020 3:56 pm : link
Then don't name anyone. That's basic fairness.
And, here it is?  
speedywheels : 1/15/2020 3:57 pm : link
A rumor - for now, anyway..
Linky - ( New Window )
RE: LOL here it comes....  
DanMetroMan : 1/15/2020 3:58 pm : link
In comment 14780758 pjcas18 said:
Quote:


Mike Puma
@NYPost_Mets
∑ 9m
ďIntegrityĒ is a huge franchise buzzword with the Mets - especially with Fred Wilpon - to the point there is legitimate concern for Carlos Beltranís job at the moment.


Madoff, Reyes, Familia, Jeff's sexual harassment... should I go on? lol
RE: My question is this:  
speedywheels : 1/15/2020 3:59 pm : link
In comment 14780778 montanagiant said:
Quote:
Beltran was a player when this occurred. If he gets punished shouldn't the other 23 players they claim were involved be punished also?


MLB doesn't want to get into a protracted battle with the MLBPA - Beltran isn't an active player, so easier to punish
RE: 'because the other players are still active and protected'  
RDJR : 1/15/2020 4:10 pm : link
In comment 14780779 Torrag said:
Quote:
Then don't name anyone. That's basic fairness.


Different rules apply to different employee groups. Management employees or those unprotected by the provisions of a CBA or contract always get named in an employment investigation (which this is most similar to).
.  
DanMetroMan : 1/15/2020 4:13 pm : link

IB 🔌
@incarceratedbob

4m
Source: Mets have an announcement on it's way
RE: RE: My question is this:  
Dunedin81 : 1/15/2020 4:14 pm : link
In comment 14780784 speedywheels said:
Quote:
In comment 14780778 montanagiant said:


Quote:


Beltran was a player when this occurred. If he gets punished shouldn't the other 23 players they claim were involved be punished also?



MLB doesn't want to get into a protracted battle with the MLBPA - Beltran isn't an active player, so easier to punish


And his being fired isn't a league punishment (nor are the firings of Cora and Hinch, for that matter).
he's probably  
Burt64 : 1/15/2020 4:14 pm : link
stepping down
'Different rules apply to different employee groups.'  
Torrag : 1/15/2020 4:15 pm : link
BS. They included his name because they wanted to bolster their report with someone recognizable and they 'could' by rule. It wasn't 'illegal' but it was unfair to name him as the only player because the rest are 'shielded'. Still call BS.
I do not consider him a source  
pjcas18 : 1/15/2020 4:16 pm : link
but FWIW incarceratedbob says Mets have an announcement coming.

I hate when the jackals get their way

and I am one of those people who feel like the manager of a baseball team has a limited impact, but caving to the frothing pitchfork crowd is a brutally weak move.
Cancel culture  
Chris684 : 1/15/2020 4:20 pm : link
The new normal

Sad
Multiple Sources  
giantsfan227B : 1/15/2020 4:31 pm : link
Saying Mets have a "pending announcement."

One tweet I saw from someone that claims Beltran is her uncle is that he is stepping down from the Mets manager position.
any chance this announcement is...  
Drewcon40 : 1/15/2020 4:34 pm : link
...that they are keeping Beltran?
Mike  
DanMetroMan : 1/15/2020 4:39 pm : link
Silva claims a source tells him Beltran is stepping down.
I think Beltran is gone.  
giantsfan227B : 1/15/2020 4:46 pm : link
Dallas Braden
@DALLASBRADEN209

1h
This is the public perception aspect I was referring to. Iím not saying it lasts a week or a month or however long. Iím saying if Beltran & the Mets can ďwear itĒ & they feel the clubhouse can survive it, then maybe they move fwd. IMO the ?ís never stop coming.

This all just sucks so much. AC is a great baseball mind. Beltran wasnít getting fed pitches via video as a player and the pedigree of these guys should not be forgotten. You donít fake it for 13 & 19 years in the show. That said, Itís just CRAZY to watch this unfold.

Letís consider this:
Does a Beltran resignation & his designation as a PLAYER when this began, void him of any punishment?

A mutually agreed upon split by Cora & SOX could be viewed as Cora putting the Org ahead of himself & a resignation from Beltran could seen similarly.


Link - ( New Window )
Unreal.  
moze1021 : 1/15/2020 6:25 pm : link
So dumb.

Kills my excitement for the season.

Well let me try to add something rather than just bitch .  
moze1021 : 1/15/2020 6:46 pm : link
Given the media obsession with this event, which I find way overblown, I guess the Mets and Beltran do have to ask if they want to deal with it.

Resigning/firing is the easiest path.

So no doubt now that's the path Mets take.

A franchise that has failed to establish a culture and identity for 30 years, trying to emulate or copy what they think the media wants vs making strong in-house decisions, is absolutely going to break here.

Now the question.. who the F manages the Mets on 2020??
He cant be  
Rolyrock : 1/15/2020 6:53 pm : link
The face of the franchise. He is a BIG cheat and liar. He never won with the Mets. He struck out in the biggest moments making a zillion dollars. He is a sour puss loser who had to cheat to win in the world series with another team. That's how the rest of baseball fandom sees him. But hey the Wilpons are losers, happy to play on fan loyalty to make profits with no chance to win world series. So mybe a good match. Pathetic.
RE: RE: I donít get it  
section125 : 1/15/2020 6:54 pm : link
In comment 14780544 LTIsTheGreatest said:
Quote:
In comment 14780102 Rflairr said:


Quote:


If None of the Astros players are being punished. Why should he?



because he is no longer a player and cannot be protected by the Players union. So he can be disciplined if MLB so chooses without a fight form the MLBPA


He was a player at the time...
RE: He cant be  
moze1021 : 1/15/2020 7:00 pm : link
In comment 14780992 Rolyrock said:
Quote:
The face of the franchise. He is a BIG cheat and liar. He never won with the Mets. He struck out in the biggest moments making a zillion dollars. He is a sour puss loser who had to cheat to win in the world series with another team. That's how the rest of baseball fandom sees him. But hey the Wilpons are losers, happy to play on fan loyalty to make profits with no chance to win world series. So mybe a good match. Pathetic.


Anyone who doesn't respect and value Beltran's time as a Mets player automatically loses all credibility.

Anyone bringing up the Cards AB..pathetic.

I mean shit...I seriously don't understand how people can get so mad at this stuff... The vast majority of players we grew up with were cheaters. Every Mets fans favorite turn of the century favorite player was a cheater.

I wonder when all this vitriol will start for all of the other players  
PhiPsi125 : 1/15/2020 7:02 pm : link
that possibly participated/orchestrated the cheating?

Based on the media reaction and these amazingly predictable threads, people should be clamoring for half of the Astros players to resign and walk away from the game, right?
RE: I wonder when all this vitriol will start for all of the other players  
moze1021 : 1/15/2020 7:09 pm : link
In comment 14781001 PhiPsi125 said:
Quote:
that possibly participated/orchestrated the cheating?

Based on the media reaction and these amazingly predictable threads, people should be clamoring for half of the Astros players to resign and walk away from the game, right?


And never be allowed to work in baseball again.


Despite the fact that we have no idea if other teams did this and just didn't get caught
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