Given the other coaching hires, I don't think Garrett is Gettleman or Mara's doing, but it's fair to say that if they were involved or pushed the matter in any way it raises some concern.
Because of Shurmur and McAdoo?? That means if they had any input we should be concerned? Some of you look for any way possible to inject incompetence to the organization.
First off - *if* Judge had less than 100% say in this matter, it should be concerning. It raises a number of problems, the first and foremost being trust and ultimately accountability.
Second - there's no need to inject any incompetence to this organization. They've been one of the worst teams in the league the past three years running. This year we saw an offense falling apart at the seams, and a HC refuse to turn over playcalling to an OC who was his third choice at best and in all likelihood could have been forced upon him by the FO.
You earn trust - if the Giants have lost it with a lot of their fans, there's a damn good reason.
FMIC - you just argue pro-Giants all day long. But people have every right to doubt their moves when they have fired two coaches in four years and are 12-36 in the last three seasons. When the answer to the question of "what team has the worst record in the NFL over the past three seasons" is the Giants, Giants' ownership does not get my vote of confidence. I have my right to that opinion too.
Just because you cant mind read and cant have imaginary conversations or see into walls of buildings you have never been near to see into skulls of people you don't know is no reason to bash people who can
And if they were not acting to fix that I would agree. that would be terrible
If they did fire that many folks in pursuit of better and search pretty widely to fix that...does that earn a respite to see what happens of does the same conclusion persist absent confirmation it may no longer apply?
Serious question: Why put so much emotional energy behind a group you have contempt for???
RE: RE: RE: I like Garrett for the OC position - I think he did well as an OC Â
he knows the division extremely well, and he'd be an established veteran coaching presence that the team could use.
I think some of you need to take a deep fucking breath though - a few posters suggest that it might be problematic if Garrett was forced on Judge, and you get your panties in a twist. It's as if you haven't seen the disjointed mess the Giants have been for most of the last decade.
Given the other coaching hires, I don't think Garrett is Gettleman or Mara's doing, but it's fair to say that if they were involved or pushed the matter in any way it raises some concern. Of course the guy hasn't even been hired yet, so it's all hypothetical to this point.
Um, no. It’s the certain segment of the fan base here that assumes Garrett was forced on Judge and then use that assumption to bash the organization to fit their hot takes. It must be exhausting to manufacture outrage over assumptions and suppositions, but hey to each their own...
Just because you cant mind read and cant have imaginary conversations or see into walls of buildings you have never been near to see into skulls of people you don't know is no reason to bash people who can
I apologize for overstepping. I appreciate you bringing me back to my center...
FMIC - you just argue pro-Giants all day long. But people have every right to doubt their moves when they have fired two coaches in four years and are 12-36 in the last three seasons. When the answer to the question of "what team has the worst record in the NFL over the past three seasons" is the Giants, Giants' ownership does not get my vote of confidence. I have my right to that opinion too.
Sure, gripe about how bad the team has been. They've messed up both coaching and GM hirings and firings. They covered up domestic abuse on the part of their kicker and have made some serious gaffes.
But there's no reason to make up things to complain about, especially when there are legitimate reasons to drag management over the coals. There's no evidence at all that Mara or anybody else has forced assistants on a coach. All anybody has to support that claim is vague BBI rumor that they've decided to accept as fact with no corroboration.
Every beat writer who has been asked publicly has stated that Judge has control of the staff, including the potential hiring of Garrett. If you want to worry that Judge is the wrong guy for the job, that's a legit thing to worry about--the Giants haven't picked very good head coaches, and Judge is very unproven. But it's obnoxious to have people making up stuff and/or accepting conjecture as facts because it allows them to paint the team in an even more negative light.
There are plenty of gripes to have about this team. No need to make up more.
FMIC - you just argue pro-Giants all day long. But people have every right to doubt their moves when they have fired two coaches in four years and are 12-36 in the last three seasons. When the answer to the question of "what team has the worst record in the NFL over the past three seasons" is the Giants, Giants' ownership does not get my vote of confidence. I have my right to that opinion too.
Sure, gripe about how bad the team has been. They've messed up both coaching and GM hirings and firings. They covered up domestic abuse on the part of their kicker and have made some serious gaffes.
But there's no reason to make up things to complain about, especially when there are legitimate reasons to drag management over the coals. There's no evidence at all that Mara or anybody else has forced assistants on a coach. All anybody has to support that claim is vague BBI rumor that they've decided to accept as fact with no corroboration.
Every beat writer who has been asked publicly has stated that Judge has control of the staff, including the potential hiring of Garrett. If you want to worry that Judge is the wrong guy for the job, that's a legit thing to worry about--the Giants haven't picked very good head coaches, and Judge is very unproven. But it's obnoxious to have people making up stuff and/or accepting conjecture as facts because it allows them to paint the team in an even more negative light.
There are plenty of gripes to have about this team. No need to make up more.
I'm not making up a gripe. I'd actually be fine with Garrett as OC. I was simply saying that the Giants don't deserve any one's trust until they earn it.
could not agree more. The past yields enough to complain about. Lets not make up stuff to worry about while we wait for the product on the field in the second half of next year
If they continue to make mistakes we can only do one of two things:
1) Admit they tried and did go out of their way to do well but we don't want to wait to see if they get better any longer. Need to tie our rooting instincts to a winner cycle and not a loser cycle. Sorry Giants, cant wait any longer, we have to move on to rooting for another team or sport or activity
2) Wait until the second half of next year to see if there is progress
What we shouldn't do is make up stuff to be mad about as if that's about them and not really about us
I hate to interrupt the high fiving when there's been so little Â
to be cheery about the past few years, but the vast majority weren't even complaining about the hire - just worried that the Giants might be pushing Judge to make a hire he's not 100% onboard with.
If you can't understand why people would be worried about that, not sure there's any point in continuing the discussion, carry on your celebration. The next time you can really grade the Giants on progress is 8 months away, and until then all there will be is a back and forth exchange of opinions. Many of them will be negative, as you'd expect from a team that has managed 12 wins cumulatively over the combined last 3 seasons.
RE: I hate to interrupt the high fiving when there's been so little Â
to be cheery about the past few years, but the vast majority weren't even complaining about the hire - just worried that the Giants might be pushing Judge to make a hire he's not 100% onboard with.
If you can't understand why people would be worried about that, not sure there's any point in continuing the discussion, carry on your celebration. The next time you can really grade the Giants on progress is 8 months away, and until then all there will be is a back and forth exchange of opinions. Many of them will be negative, as you'd expect from a team that has managed 12 wins cumulatively over the combined last 3 seasons.
Geez ... it’s January of a new year ... the sun is shining, the air is clean and we’re still undefeated in 2020 ... lighten up
RE: I hate to interrupt the high fiving when there's been so little Â
to be cheery about the past few years, but the vast majority weren't even complaining about the hire - just worried that the Giants might be pushing Judge to make a hire he's not 100% onboard with.
If you can't understand why people would be worried about that, not sure there's any point in continuing the discussion, carry on your celebration. The next time you can really grade the Giants on progress is 8 months away, and until then all there will be is a back and forth exchange of opinions. Many of them will be negative, as you'd expect from a team that has managed 12 wins cumulatively over the combined last 3 seasons.
Funny lead in and well put...
RE: I hate to interrupt the high fiving when there's been so little Â
to be cheery about the past few years, but the vast majority weren't even complaining about the hire - just worried that the Giants might be pushing Judge to make a hire he's not 100% onboard with.
If you can't understand why people would be worried about that, not sure there's any point in continuing the discussion, carry on your celebration. The next time you can really grade the Giants on progress is 8 months away, and until then all there will be is a back and forth exchange of opinions. Many of them will be negative, as you'd expect from a team that has managed 12 wins cumulatively over the combined last 3 seasons.
Well there are two ways you can look at this. You can either be optimistic when presented with change or you can continue to wallow in misery. I see you've made your choice. Have fun with that.
to be cheery about the past few years, but the vast majority weren't even complaining about the hire - just worried that the Giants might be pushing Judge to make a hire he's not 100% onboard with.
If you can't understand why people would be worried about that, not sure there's any point in continuing the discussion, carry on your celebration. .........
You are right, many of us don't understand this Giants pushing Judge to hire certain coaches mantra. If they were pushing him, he'd be done by know and wouldn't be interviewing...
I don't argue pro-Giants. I argue against the miserable fucks who want to pin all the past woes on the current management and assume things will stay that way.
I argue against people who regale the board about "The Giants Way" or who say for months we are destined to have Jason Garrett as Head Coach because that's what will happen - and even when we lose a candidate that the Media speculates we wanted, they go apeshit about Gettleman not being able to work with anyone and that Garrett is the guy.
I argue against people who talk about mandates and meddling. That if management had anything to do with hires that they are doomed to suck.
I'll basically stick to what I said before because it is most definitely a viewpoint that some posters do take, as fucked up as it may be:
Quote:
Garrett will be a great hire unless the board finds out Mara or Gettleman had anything to do with it - then it will be a terrible hire!!
he knows the division extremely well, and he'd be an established veteran coaching presence that the team could use.
I think some of you need to take a deep fucking breath though - a few posters suggest that it might be problematic if Garrett was forced on Judge, and you get your panties in a twist. It's as if you haven't seen the disjointed mess the Giants have been for most of the last decade.
Given the other coaching hires, I don't think Garrett is Gettleman or Mara's doing, but it's fair to say that if they were involved or pushed the matter in any way it raises some concern. Of course the guy hasn't even been hired yet, so it's all hypothetical to this point.
Um, no. It’s the certain segment of the fan base here that assumes Garrett was forced on Judge and then use that assumption to bash the organization to fit their hot takes. It must be exhausting to manufacture outrage over assumptions and suppositions, but hey to each their own...
You're not allowed to rent videos here anymore!
Out of sight! You're right. No more videos.
RE: RE: I hate to interrupt the high fiving when there's been so little Â
to be cheery about the past few years, but the vast majority weren't even complaining about the hire - just worried that the Giants might be pushing Judge to make a hire he's not 100% onboard with.
If you can't understand why people would be worried about that, not sure there's any point in continuing the discussion, carry on your celebration. The next time you can really grade the Giants on progress is 8 months away, and until then all there will be is a back and forth exchange of opinions. Many of them will be negative, as you'd expect from a team that has managed 12 wins cumulatively over the combined last 3 seasons.
Well there are two ways you can look at this. You can either be optimistic when presented with change or you can continue to wallow in misery. I see you've made your choice. Have fun with that.
So opting against baseless optimism is wallowing in misery?
The Giants are the second worst team in the NFL since Gettleman took over. That's not opinion, it's a fact. Is observing that reality wallowing in misery? Is skepticism over this regime unjustified? If so, how many miserable seasons do we have to endure before it's ok to be critical? Tell us when it's ok.
There's a group of people here that would watch a plane fly into a mountain and tell themselves everyone on board is fine because anything else is wallowing in misery. And they expect everyone else to also delude themselves.
Just tell us when it's ok to actually ask why the Giants suck. Because some of us are actually tired of it.
could not agree more. The past yields enough to complain about. Lets not make up stuff to worry about while we wait for the product on the field in the second half of next year
If they continue to make mistakes we can only do one of two things:
1) Admit they tried and did go out of their way to do well but we don't want to wait to see if they get better any longer. Need to tie our rooting instincts to a winner cycle and not a loser cycle. Sorry Giants, cant wait any longer, we have to move on to rooting for another team or sport or activity
2) Wait until the second half of next year to see if there is progress
What we shouldn't do is make up stuff to be mad about as if that's about them and not really about us
Yes, the Giants performance over most of the past decade and the decisions that got them there is really about us...
Nope
Jimmy Googs : 9:38 pm : link : reply
You argue pro-Giants basically every day of the week.
And twice on Mondays....
Then show me where I'm calling our recent run great. Show me where I'm calling Gettleman a great GM. Show me where I'm calling Eli a top QB.
Being pro-Giants would indicate that I find them doing little to no wrong. They've done a lot wrong. What I don't do is spend all my time lamenting mistakes as if each negative post has restorative powers. What I don't do is assume that because we've made some moves that haven't worked that all moves suck. What I don't do is ignore that the team between 2012 to now has had a ton of issues and forge forward acting as if the current GM is the most incompetent man to walk this Earth.
If I was so Pro-Giants, I'd be championing the team instead of pointing out inaccuracies, inconsistencies and the fucked up logic used by many who spend each and every day ranting like fucking lunatics.
Blinded by the losses that they don't even have the wherewithall to step back and see certain things.
Maybe it is just me, but if I spent the past several years unearthing each and every thing I could think of to put the Giants down as old, stodgy, and too out of touch to think boldly. If I could tell the board exactly what the Giants ownership thoughts were on every move without ever being in the building or knowing key facts and then see the turnover in the past several years where A GM and his Right-Hand man are fired, where two whole coaching staffs are canned, followed by making a really bold decision on a new HC who seems to be hiring certain qualities instead of retread names I'd probably shut the fuck up for awhile.
But instead it is just more of the same with new narratives being created
I don't know what you do on Mondays, but if it is anything like today, it is assuming what others are posting and usually being dead fucking wrong about it.
So they waited. He may drop the ball in the interview just because of temporary burnout and his mind really isn’t focused on being forced to take an OC job after 10 years as HC.
Shula May be the backup plan. I could be okay with either with a HC like Judge.
about internal tensions and a ton of external pressure if the Giants struggle well into Judge's first season.
Well about 6 bad years out of 7 will make it rough. But, the 1st year should be a gimme...it is progress that counts. They will start out poorly because the CBA only allows so much practice(well new coaches get a few extra). NFL is too complex to just step right in and succeed. I expect not only new coaches but a ton of new players....patience is a virtue and patience around Giantsville is wearing thin.
Put yourself in Garrett's position. You've been a n NFL head coach for 10 years. Now you get a call from the Giants (your former team) come help out their young head coach. You want to do it, except ...
They have another inexperienced guy in the mix (Graham); will there be circumstances that you have to answer to him ?
It could get complicated when the bullets start flying. You're trying to reason with the young head coach, but now this other guy shoots you logic down. How long can you deal with that ?
Still, the Cowboys offense was usually pretty good during his tenure. They had the NFL's top-ranked offense this past season, averaging 431.5 yard per game. It was the fifth time in his tenure Dallas ranked in the Top 7 in total offense. ****And they ranked in the Top 3 twice in his three years as the Cowboys offensive coordinator before that.****
Does anyone have a link to confirm that the comment highlighted is true or false? “That the Cowboys were ranked in the top 3 twice in Garrett’s three years as Cowboys OC before he became HC?“
This is still gnawing at me. I’d love for it to be true, but one very reputable poster here took exception so,I would like to confirm this once and for all. I will keep looking too.
RE: RE: RE: I hate to interrupt the high fiving when there's been so little Â
So opting against baseless optimism is wallowing in misery?
The Giants are the second worst team in the NFL since Gettleman took over. That's not opinion, it's a fact. Is observing that reality wallowing in misery? Is skepticism over this regime unjustified? If so, how many miserable seasons do we have to endure before it's ok to be critical? Tell us when it's ok.
There's a group of people here that would watch a plane fly into a mountain and tell themselves everyone on board is fine because anything else is wallowing in misery. And they expect everyone else to also delude themselves.
Just tell us when it's ok to actually ask why the Giants suck. Because some of us are actually tired of it.
Some interesting logic on this thread - like you should just be optimistic regardless of what you're seeing, and that there's no point in discussing the merits of a move that hasn't happened yet.
I guess a lot of people are Stuart Smalley fans, and just really need their daily affirmation.
Either things are going to improve, or in a few years you won't be able to tell Giants fans apart from Redskins fans. All we're missing is Joe Gibbs' "Master Plan" at this point.
But the exact opposite is also occurring here too (your post included) Â
Still, the Cowboys offense was usually pretty good during his tenure. They had the NFL's top-ranked offense this past season, averaging 431.5 yard per game. It was the fifth time in his tenure Dallas ranked in the Top 7 in total offense. ****And they ranked in the Top 3 twice in his three years as the Cowboys offensive coordinator before that.****
Does anyone have a link to confirm that the comment highlighted is true or false? “That the Cowboys were ranked in the top 3 twice in Garrett’s three years as Cowboys OC before he became HC?“
This is still gnawing at me. I’d love for it to be true, but one very reputable poster here took exception so,I would like to confirm this once and for all. I will keep looking too.
Yes, I found the answer. If interested, here are the stats: Offense rank for 2007-2009, the years Garrett was OC with Dallas....
2007:
Points scored 2nd. Total yards...3rd
2008:
Points scored ...18. Total yards...13
2009:
Points scored...14. Total yards....2nd
So, depending on what stat means most to you, Ralph V was right if you use TOTAL YARDS as the category that interested you. Obviously, if you use TOTAL POINTS SCORED, he would not be right.
metric you use on the offenses ranking. In yards, they were top 5 twice and top 10 3 times in Garrett's OC tenure. Points is different. Look to the right side of the table linked Dallas Yearly Records and Rankings - ( New Window )
To those who are so concerned about Mara pushing JG on JJ Â
“I certainly wouldn’t have any objection to that (JG being OC),” co-owner John Mara said last week. “I have a lot of respect for Jason. At the end of the day, that’s going to be Joe’s decision.”
I don't think JG would've been interviewed if JJ didn't want him to be.
to be cheery about the past few years, but the vast majority weren't even complaining about the hire - just worried that the Giants might be pushing Judge to make a hire he's not 100% onboard with.
If you can't understand why people would be worried about that, not sure there's any point in continuing the discussion, carry on your celebration. The next time you can really grade the Giants on progress is 8 months away, and until then all there will be is a back and forth exchange of opinions. Many of them will be negative, as you'd expect from a team that has managed 12 wins cumulatively over the combined last 3 seasons.
So you literally are just making something up to bitch about out of thin air. No basis, but simply "what if"?
metric you use on the offenses ranking. In yards, they were top 5 twice and top 10 3 times in Garrett's OC tenure. Points is different. Look to the right side of the table linked Dallas Yearly Records and Rankings - ( New Window )
So Ralph V used total yards instead of points scored to make that comment. I guess he wanted to support his agenda (promote Garrett) with more convincing stats. Me personally, I prefer total points over yards...might have red zone issues.
RE: RE: I hate to interrupt the high fiving when there's been so little Â
to be cheery about the past few years, but the vast majority weren't even complaining about the hire - just worried that the Giants might be pushing Judge to make a hire he's not 100% onboard with.
If you can't understand why people would be worried about that, not sure there's any point in continuing the discussion, carry on your celebration. The next time you can really grade the Giants on progress is 8 months away, and until then all there will be is a back and forth exchange of opinions. Many of them will be negative, as you'd expect from a team that has managed 12 wins cumulatively over the combined last 3 seasons.
So you literally are just making something up to bitch about out of thin air. No basis, but simply "what if"?
First off - I'm not even the one who made the complaints. I actually liked the Judge hire, and I think Garrett would be a good addition to the coaching staff if he ultimately gets the job.
But this 'making something up to bitch about' is overblown. It's discussion. It was pointed out as a possible concern. This team has been SO FUCKING BAD for such a long time, that I don't fault people for finding ways that shit can blow up. Jumping all over people and calling them bad fans or accusing them of being overly negative in an attempt to discourage any discussion of a potential problem is silly.
metric you use on the offenses ranking. In yards, they were top 5 twice and top 10 3 times in Garrett's OC tenure. Points is different. Look to the right side of the table linked Dallas Yearly Records and Rankings - ( New Window )
So Ralph V used total yards instead of points scored to make that comment. I guess he wanted to support his agenda (promote Garrett) with more convincing stats. Me personally, I prefer total points over yards...might have red zone issues.
Either way shows a better than average to a very good offense
good for Jones is a foolish reason for the hire. We have a QB coach whose job is to coach the QB, we need an OC who is good for the whole Offense game plan...
how comfortable a brand new HC would feel about having a
OC, who spent 10 years as a HC working alongside him?
I have to believe this interview most likely came from Mara and DG, just a guess.
I mean Garrett did play here for a couple years
as a backup to Kerry Collins, so the Giants have always liked him.
He did a good job with Romo in Dallas,
especially when he was just getting started as a
QB there. I think Wade Phillips was the HC then, until he got axed.
They could do worse than Garrett,
and probably will if they don't hire him, LOL.
there were a number of posters who said if we have a young HC, he needs to bring in experienced coordinators. Then when it is rumored he will, people are freaking out that the coordinators are going to be pressing for the HC job or intimidating the young guy with their mere presence on the sidelines.
And of course the logical offshoot of that is that Mara and DG are forcing the hire. Shhesh.
That Garrett or somebody else would be 'pressing' for
the HC position. I am simply stating that a guy who was a long shot to become the HC in the first place, and has never been a HC before, just might not be extremely comfortable with the possible hiring at the outset.
It doesn't mean it couldn't work.
As i said, I believe that Mara and the GM most likely
talked to Judge about interviewing Garrett.
I mean, they do like Garrett, from his time here as a player, and from afar.
there were a number of posters who said if we have a young HC, he needs to bring in experienced coordinators. Then when it is rumored he will, people are freaking out that the coordinators are going to be pressing for the HC job or intimidating the young guy with their mere presence on the sidelines.
And of course the logical offshoot of that is that Mara and DG are forcing the hire. Shhesh.
Are you doing the old 'BBI sez' thing again? Because you and I both know you're referring to different posters and different opinions there.
So basically - taken as a whole, BBI is all over the place regarding a potential Jason Garrett hire. Did or should you have expected differently? Some people didn't like the Judge hire, some loved it. Some people liked Garrett as a potential HC, some hated him. Why would you expect some sort of magical harmonization of opinion at this point given how people's opinions diverged so greatly before he was an OC candidate?
Quote:
Quote:
Given the other coaching hires, I don't think Garrett is Gettleman or Mara's doing, but it's fair to say that if they were involved or pushed the matter in any way it raises some concern.
Because of Shurmur and McAdoo?? That means if they had any input we should be concerned? Some of you look for any way possible to inject incompetence to the organization.
First off - *if* Judge had less than 100% say in this matter, it should be concerning. It raises a number of problems, the first and foremost being trust and ultimately accountability.
Second - there's no need to inject any incompetence to this organization. They've been one of the worst teams in the league the past three years running. This year we saw an offense falling apart at the seams, and a HC refuse to turn over playcalling to an OC who was his third choice at best and in all likelihood could have been forced upon him by the FO.
You earn trust - if the Giants have lost it with a lot of their fans, there's a damn good reason.
FMIC - you just argue pro-Giants all day long. But people have every right to doubt their moves when they have fired two coaches in four years and are 12-36 in the last three seasons. When the answer to the question of "what team has the worst record in the NFL over the past three seasons" is the Giants, Giants' ownership does not get my vote of confidence. I have my right to that opinion too.
If they did fire that many folks in pursuit of better and search pretty widely to fix that...does that earn a respite to see what happens of does the same conclusion persist absent confirmation it may no longer apply?
Serious question: Why put so much emotional energy behind a group you have contempt for???
Quote:
In comment 14780913 jcn56 said:
Quote:
he knows the division extremely well, and he'd be an established veteran coaching presence that the team could use.
I think some of you need to take a deep fucking breath though - a few posters suggest that it might be problematic if Garrett was forced on Judge, and you get your panties in a twist. It's as if you haven't seen the disjointed mess the Giants have been for most of the last decade.
Given the other coaching hires, I don't think Garrett is Gettleman or Mara's doing, but it's fair to say that if they were involved or pushed the matter in any way it raises some concern. Of course the guy hasn't even been hired yet, so it's all hypothetical to this point.
Um, no. It’s the certain segment of the fan base here that assumes Garrett was forced on Judge and then use that assumption to bash the organization to fit their hot takes. It must be exhausting to manufacture outrage over assumptions and suppositions, but hey to each their own...
You're not allowed to rent videos here anymore!
YEEEAAAHHHHH!!!
I apologize for overstepping. I appreciate you bringing me back to my center...
Sure, gripe about how bad the team has been. They've messed up both coaching and GM hirings and firings. They covered up domestic abuse on the part of their kicker and have made some serious gaffes.
But there's no reason to make up things to complain about, especially when there are legitimate reasons to drag management over the coals. There's no evidence at all that Mara or anybody else has forced assistants on a coach. All anybody has to support that claim is vague BBI rumor that they've decided to accept as fact with no corroboration.
Every beat writer who has been asked publicly has stated that Judge has control of the staff, including the potential hiring of Garrett. If you want to worry that Judge is the wrong guy for the job, that's a legit thing to worry about--the Giants haven't picked very good head coaches, and Judge is very unproven. But it's obnoxious to have people making up stuff and/or accepting conjecture as facts because it allows them to paint the team in an even more negative light.
There are plenty of gripes to have about this team. No need to make up more.
Quote:
FMIC - you just argue pro-Giants all day long. But people have every right to doubt their moves when they have fired two coaches in four years and are 12-36 in the last three seasons. When the answer to the question of "what team has the worst record in the NFL over the past three seasons" is the Giants, Giants' ownership does not get my vote of confidence. I have my right to that opinion too.
Sure, gripe about how bad the team has been. They've messed up both coaching and GM hirings and firings. They covered up domestic abuse on the part of their kicker and have made some serious gaffes.
But there's no reason to make up things to complain about, especially when there are legitimate reasons to drag management over the coals. There's no evidence at all that Mara or anybody else has forced assistants on a coach. All anybody has to support that claim is vague BBI rumor that they've decided to accept as fact with no corroboration.
Every beat writer who has been asked publicly has stated that Judge has control of the staff, including the potential hiring of Garrett. If you want to worry that Judge is the wrong guy for the job, that's a legit thing to worry about--the Giants haven't picked very good head coaches, and Judge is very unproven. But it's obnoxious to have people making up stuff and/or accepting conjecture as facts because it allows them to paint the team in an even more negative light.
There are plenty of gripes to have about this team. No need to make up more.
I'm not making up a gripe. I'd actually be fine with Garrett as OC. I was simply saying that the Giants don't deserve any one's trust until they earn it.
If they continue to make mistakes we can only do one of two things:
1) Admit they tried and did go out of their way to do well but we don't want to wait to see if they get better any longer. Need to tie our rooting instincts to a winner cycle and not a loser cycle. Sorry Giants, cant wait any longer, we have to move on to rooting for another team or sport or activity
2) Wait until the second half of next year to see if there is progress
What we shouldn't do is make up stuff to be mad about as if that's about them and not really about us
If you can't understand why people would be worried about that, not sure there's any point in continuing the discussion, carry on your celebration. The next time you can really grade the Giants on progress is 8 months away, and until then all there will be is a back and forth exchange of opinions. Many of them will be negative, as you'd expect from a team that has managed 12 wins cumulatively over the combined last 3 seasons.
If you can't understand why people would be worried about that, not sure there's any point in continuing the discussion, carry on your celebration. The next time you can really grade the Giants on progress is 8 months away, and until then all there will be is a back and forth exchange of opinions. Many of them will be negative, as you'd expect from a team that has managed 12 wins cumulatively over the combined last 3 seasons.
Geez ... it’s January of a new year ... the sun is shining, the air is clean and we’re still undefeated in 2020 ... lighten up
If you can't understand why people would be worried about that, not sure there's any point in continuing the discussion, carry on your celebration. The next time you can really grade the Giants on progress is 8 months away, and until then all there will be is a back and forth exchange of opinions. Many of them will be negative, as you'd expect from a team that has managed 12 wins cumulatively over the combined last 3 seasons.
Funny lead in and well put...
If you can't understand why people would be worried about that, not sure there's any point in continuing the discussion, carry on your celebration. The next time you can really grade the Giants on progress is 8 months away, and until then all there will be is a back and forth exchange of opinions. Many of them will be negative, as you'd expect from a team that has managed 12 wins cumulatively over the combined last 3 seasons.
Well there are two ways you can look at this. You can either be optimistic when presented with change or you can continue to wallow in misery. I see you've made your choice. Have fun with that.
Link - ( New Window )
If you can't understand why people would be worried about that, not sure there's any point in continuing the discussion, carry on your celebration. .........
You are right, many of us don't understand this Giants pushing Judge to hire certain coaches mantra. If they were pushing him, he'd be done by know and wouldn't be interviewing...
But carry on, carrying on.
I don't argue pro-Giants. I argue against the miserable fucks who want to pin all the past woes on the current management and assume things will stay that way.
I argue against people who regale the board about "The Giants Way" or who say for months we are destined to have Jason Garrett as Head Coach because that's what will happen - and even when we lose a candidate that the Media speculates we wanted, they go apeshit about Gettleman not being able to work with anyone and that Garrett is the guy.
I argue against people who talk about mandates and meddling. That if management had anything to do with hires that they are doomed to suck.
I'll basically stick to what I said before because it is most definitely a viewpoint that some posters do take, as fucked up as it may be:
And twice on Mondays....
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In comment 14780913 jcn56 said:
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he knows the division extremely well, and he'd be an established veteran coaching presence that the team could use.
I think some of you need to take a deep fucking breath though - a few posters suggest that it might be problematic if Garrett was forced on Judge, and you get your panties in a twist. It's as if you haven't seen the disjointed mess the Giants have been for most of the last decade.
Given the other coaching hires, I don't think Garrett is Gettleman or Mara's doing, but it's fair to say that if they were involved or pushed the matter in any way it raises some concern. Of course the guy hasn't even been hired yet, so it's all hypothetical to this point.
Um, no. It’s the certain segment of the fan base here that assumes Garrett was forced on Judge and then use that assumption to bash the organization to fit their hot takes. It must be exhausting to manufacture outrage over assumptions and suppositions, but hey to each their own...
You're not allowed to rent videos here anymore!
Out of sight! You're right. No more videos.
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to be cheery about the past few years, but the vast majority weren't even complaining about the hire - just worried that the Giants might be pushing Judge to make a hire he's not 100% onboard with.
If you can't understand why people would be worried about that, not sure there's any point in continuing the discussion, carry on your celebration. The next time you can really grade the Giants on progress is 8 months away, and until then all there will be is a back and forth exchange of opinions. Many of them will be negative, as you'd expect from a team that has managed 12 wins cumulatively over the combined last 3 seasons.
Well there are two ways you can look at this. You can either be optimistic when presented with change or you can continue to wallow in misery. I see you've made your choice. Have fun with that.
So opting against baseless optimism is wallowing in misery?
The Giants are the second worst team in the NFL since Gettleman took over. That's not opinion, it's a fact. Is observing that reality wallowing in misery? Is skepticism over this regime unjustified? If so, how many miserable seasons do we have to endure before it's ok to be critical? Tell us when it's ok.
There's a group of people here that would watch a plane fly into a mountain and tell themselves everyone on board is fine because anything else is wallowing in misery. And they expect everyone else to also delude themselves.
Just tell us when it's ok to actually ask why the Giants suck. Because some of us are actually tired of it.
If they continue to make mistakes we can only do one of two things:
1) Admit they tried and did go out of their way to do well but we don't want to wait to see if they get better any longer. Need to tie our rooting instincts to a winner cycle and not a loser cycle. Sorry Giants, cant wait any longer, we have to move on to rooting for another team or sport or activity
2) Wait until the second half of next year to see if there is progress
What we shouldn't do is make up stuff to be mad about as if that's about them and not really about us
Yes, the Giants performance over most of the past decade and the decisions that got them there is really about us...
Jimmy Googs : 9:38 pm : link : reply
You argue pro-Giants basically every day of the week.
And twice on Mondays....
Then show me where I'm calling our recent run great. Show me where I'm calling Gettleman a great GM. Show me where I'm calling Eli a top QB.
Being pro-Giants would indicate that I find them doing little to no wrong. They've done a lot wrong. What I don't do is spend all my time lamenting mistakes as if each negative post has restorative powers. What I don't do is assume that because we've made some moves that haven't worked that all moves suck. What I don't do is ignore that the team between 2012 to now has had a ton of issues and forge forward acting as if the current GM is the most incompetent man to walk this Earth.
If I was so Pro-Giants, I'd be championing the team instead of pointing out inaccuracies, inconsistencies and the fucked up logic used by many who spend each and every day ranting like fucking lunatics.
Blinded by the losses that they don't even have the wherewithall to step back and see certain things.
Maybe it is just me, but if I spent the past several years unearthing each and every thing I could think of to put the Giants down as old, stodgy, and too out of touch to think boldly. If I could tell the board exactly what the Giants ownership thoughts were on every move without ever being in the building or knowing key facts and then see the turnover in the past several years where A GM and his Right-Hand man are fired, where two whole coaching staffs are canned, followed by making a really bold decision on a new HC who seems to be hiring certain qualities instead of retread names I'd probably shut the fuck up for awhile.
But instead it is just more of the same with new narratives being created
I don't know what you do on Mondays, but if it is anything like today, it is assuming what others are posting and usually being dead fucking wrong about it.
How many DCs did they interview before hiring Graham?
(And Ironically, BC took his team to a SB, which JG has never done.)
Might be too much ego in one room.
Shula May be the backup plan. I could be okay with either with a HC like Judge.
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I assume they're going to interview Gruden, Caldwell, etc. before making the choice. At least I hope so.
How many DCs did they interview before hiring Graham?
At least Graham and Glenn, according to reports. I would assume Bettcher as well if Judge is doing due diligence on existing staff.
(And Ironically, BC took his team to a SB, which JG has never done.)
Might be too much ego in one room.
They worked well together in Dallas it seems though.
Well about 6 bad years out of 7 will make it rough. But, the 1st year should be a gimme...it is progress that counts. They will start out poorly because the CBA only allows so much practice(well new coaches get a few extra). NFL is too complex to just step right in and succeed. I expect not only new coaches but a ton of new players....patience is a virtue and patience around Giantsville is wearing thin.
Kinda the reason I'm on BBI.
You, are a dick. Kinda the reason so many people are tired of your act.
But I'm sure you're a fine person.
By making Graham Assistant Head coach.
Put yourself in Garrett's position. You've been a n NFL head coach for 10 years. Now you get a call from the Giants (your former team) come help out their young head coach. You want to do it, except ...
They have another inexperienced guy in the mix (Graham); will there be circumstances that you have to answer to him ?
It could get complicated when the bullets start flying. You're trying to reason with the young head coach, but now this other guy shoots you logic down. How long can you deal with that ?
- Too many Chiefs, not enough Indians -
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anti-anybody questioning them. And abusive along the way...
I am Pro-Giants.
Kinda the reason I'm on BBI.
You, are a dick. Kinda the reason so many people are tired of your act.
But I'm sure you're a fine person.
kinda rude...
Does anyone have a link to confirm that the comment highlighted is true or false? “That the Cowboys were ranked in the top 3 twice in Garrett’s three years as Cowboys OC before he became HC?“
This is still gnawing at me. I’d love for it to be true, but one very reputable poster here took exception so,I would like to confirm this once and for all. I will keep looking too.
So opting against baseless optimism is wallowing in misery?
The Giants are the second worst team in the NFL since Gettleman took over. That's not opinion, it's a fact. Is observing that reality wallowing in misery? Is skepticism over this regime unjustified? If so, how many miserable seasons do we have to endure before it's ok to be critical? Tell us when it's ok.
There's a group of people here that would watch a plane fly into a mountain and tell themselves everyone on board is fine because anything else is wallowing in misery. And they expect everyone else to also delude themselves.
Just tell us when it's ok to actually ask why the Giants suck. Because some of us are actually tired of it.
Some interesting logic on this thread - like you should just be optimistic regardless of what you're seeing, and that there's no point in discussing the merits of a move that hasn't happened yet.
I guess a lot of people are Stuart Smalley fans, and just really need their daily affirmation.
Either things are going to improve, or in a few years you won't be able to tell Giants fans apart from Redskins fans. All we're missing is Joe Gibbs' "Master Plan" at this point.
Does anyone have a link to confirm that the comment highlighted is true or false? “That the Cowboys were ranked in the top 3 twice in Garrett’s three years as Cowboys OC before he became HC?“
This is still gnawing at me. I’d love for it to be true, but one very reputable poster here took exception so,I would like to confirm this once and for all. I will keep looking too.
Yes, I found the answer. If interested, here are the stats: Offense rank for 2007-2009, the years Garrett was OC with Dallas....
2007:
Points scored 2nd. Total yards...3rd
2008:
Points scored ...18. Total yards...13
2009:
Points scored...14. Total yards....2nd
So, depending on what stat means most to you, Ralph V was right if you use TOTAL YARDS as the category that interested you. Obviously, if you use TOTAL POINTS SCORED, he would not be right.
Dallas Yearly Records and Rankings - ( New Window )
I don't think JG would've been interviewed if JJ didn't want him to be.
ny post - ( New Window )
If you can't understand why people would be worried about that, not sure there's any point in continuing the discussion, carry on your celebration. The next time you can really grade the Giants on progress is 8 months away, and until then all there will be is a back and forth exchange of opinions. Many of them will be negative, as you'd expect from a team that has managed 12 wins cumulatively over the combined last 3 seasons.
So you literally are just making something up to bitch about out of thin air. No basis, but simply "what if"?
Why not just focus on what we know and try to find positives moving forward?
Perpetuating this "Giants way" bullshit that bw created does nothing for anybody.
So Ralph V used total yards instead of points scored to make that comment. I guess he wanted to support his agenda (promote Garrett) with more convincing stats. Me personally, I prefer total points over yards...might have red zone issues.
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to be cheery about the past few years, but the vast majority weren't even complaining about the hire - just worried that the Giants might be pushing Judge to make a hire he's not 100% onboard with.
If you can't understand why people would be worried about that, not sure there's any point in continuing the discussion, carry on your celebration. The next time you can really grade the Giants on progress is 8 months away, and until then all there will be is a back and forth exchange of opinions. Many of them will be negative, as you'd expect from a team that has managed 12 wins cumulatively over the combined last 3 seasons.
So you literally are just making something up to bitch about out of thin air. No basis, but simply "what if"?
First off - I'm not even the one who made the complaints. I actually liked the Judge hire, and I think Garrett would be a good addition to the coaching staff if he ultimately gets the job.
But this 'making something up to bitch about' is overblown. It's discussion. It was pointed out as a possible concern. This team has been SO FUCKING BAD for such a long time, that I don't fault people for finding ways that shit can blow up. Jumping all over people and calling them bad fans or accusing them of being overly negative in an attempt to discourage any discussion of a potential problem is silly.
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metric you use on the offenses ranking. In yards, they were top 5 twice and top 10 3 times in Garrett's OC tenure. Points is different. Look to the right side of the table linked Dallas Yearly Records and Rankings - ( New Window )
So Ralph V used total yards instead of points scored to make that comment. I guess he wanted to support his agenda (promote Garrett) with more convincing stats. Me personally, I prefer total points over yards...might have red zone issues.
Either way shows a better than average to a very good offense
OC, who spent 10 years as a HC working alongside him?
I have to believe this interview most likely came from Mara and DG, just a guess.
I mean Garrett did play here for a couple years
as a backup to Kerry Collins, so the Giants have always liked him.
He did a good job with Romo in Dallas,
especially when he was just getting started as a
QB there. I think Wade Phillips was the HC then, until he got axed.
They could do worse than Garrett,
and probably will if they don't hire him, LOL.
And of course the logical offshoot of that is that Mara and DG are forcing the hire. Shhesh.
the HC position. I am simply stating that a guy who was a long shot to become the HC in the first place, and has never been a HC before, just might not be extremely comfortable with the possible hiring at the outset.
It doesn't mean it couldn't work.
As i said, I believe that Mara and the GM most likely
talked to Judge about interviewing Garrett.
I mean, they do like Garrett, from his time here as a player, and from afar.
And of course the logical offshoot of that is that Mara and DG are forcing the hire. Shhesh.
Are you doing the old 'BBI sez' thing again? Because you and I both know you're referring to different posters and different opinions there.
So basically - taken as a whole, BBI is all over the place regarding a potential Jason Garrett hire. Did or should you have expected differently? Some people didn't like the Judge hire, some loved it. Some people liked Garrett as a potential HC, some hated him. Why would you expect some sort of magical harmonization of opinion at this point given how people's opinions diverged so greatly before he was an OC candidate?
Because when the usual 5-7 openings occur at the end of 2020, Garrett will be on everyone's short list. And Garrett will definitely want back in...