but I think he’d be good for DJ. The only problem is that he’ll probably receive a HC call next season, leaving DJ with 3 OCs in 3 years
That is called a good problem, because that means the Giants' offense was successful, as he is not getting a HC offer unless his offense works. Second, I doubt he will emerge as a candidate that quickly. It is not as if he won SBs (see McCarthy). He will have to work his way back up, and one year will not be enough.
He is a good offensive coach and i think he would be great for DJ and his development.
He also provides some veteran leadership on offense and to JJ if he needs.
He also knows a division rival inside and out, that cant hurt.
Im totally fine with this type of hiring as the pother guys they have brought in are JJs guys and this hire will truly allow for a strong leader on the offensive side
I guess he wasn't deterred by Graham getting the Assistant HC title Â
He is not a bad play caller at all and uses the TE and run game. It would really help Barkley and Jones in their development. Plus he is a hard worker and great teacher.
I’d like that. Maybe he can get our TEs more productive and our OL Â
you have to think he rather land somewhere instead of sitting the year out. if he comes in and giants offense is good, he will be considered for another head coaching position in 2021 or maybe the year after. if he sits out, who knows. at this point, i dont think he cares about the extra title....he wants to stay in the game
This must means... Garrett will accept the OC position Â
And he wasn't the worst HC in the history of the world either. I don't mind it at all and think him combined with the QB coach they just hired can really be a great thing for Jones.
RE: I guess he wasn't deterred by Graham getting the Assistant HC title Â
In that if Garrett does well I have no doubt someone will give him a 2nd chance as a HC and then I would tend to think the new QB coach the Giants hired likely slides right in as the OC replacement. So that all seems to be built in too and makes sense.
In that if Garrett does well I have no doubt someone will give him a 2nd chance as a HC and then I would tend to think the new QB coach the Giants hired likely slides right in as the OC replacement. So that all seems to be built in too and makes sense.
he does not have a strong enough voice in the room to be the HC. He also though was handcuffed in Dallas with Jerry. It is always what Jerry says and you have to work around it. Also that Dallas roster is not as talented as it is made out to be. They are the Cowboys and it doesn't matter if they haven't won crap in 24 years they will always be hyped up by the media.
without ownership or the front office interfering.
And you see evidence of the front office interfering where?
There is no evidence of it, and Judge has hired other assistants with whom he has relationships. But this sees like something that ownership will be really behind, if not advocating. I can't speak to whether ownership is advocating this.
Garrett was my second choice for OC, so it's hard not to be happy about this. As a a HC, he is not good. As an OC, he could be very good.
without ownership or the front office interfering.
And you see evidence of the front office interfering where?
It's a fact that they have determined assistant coaches before. They did it for Coughlin and McAdoo, may have done it for Shurmur. One can have a justified concern without evidence.
The guy has like 10 years of HC experience with an 85-67 record (perfect considering Judge has zero HC/coordinator experience), and go back and look at Romo and Dak's stats season in and season out. An undrafted guy and a 4th rounder and both QBs were/have been incredibly prolific. Even if the QBs came up short in big moments, you can't say he didn't get the most he could out of those guys based on their talent and draft position.
If he gets a HC position in a year or 2 I don't see that as a negative, that will have meant he did a great job and the Giants are competitive again (most likely).
without ownership or the front office interfering.
And you see evidence of the front office interfering where?
It's a fact that they have determined assistant coaches before. They did it for Coughlin and McAdoo, may have done it for Shurmur. One can have a justified concern without evidence.
sure, but youre telling me the giants forced graham on JJ? lmfao. evidence for THIS hire points to them letting him pick his staff..
without ownership or the front office interfering.
And you see evidence of the front office interfering where?
It's a fact that they have determined assistant coaches before. They did it for Coughlin and McAdoo, may have done it for Shurmur. One can have a justified concern without evidence.
It is not a little weird that they hired a QB coach BEFORE the OC. Shurmur was just hired by Denver and axed the QB coach to get his own guy in there. So, something is going on with the OC hire that seems a bit out of line. Otherwise, why not let Garrett come in here - if he is the guy - and hire his own guys? In fact, Kitna - a Garrett guy - was not retained and is available. But if Garrett takes this job, it will be with some or many of his assistants already determined. That is flat out weird.
RE: I can't believe anyone would knock this hire for OC Â
The guy has like 10 years of HC experience with an 85-67 record (perfect considering Judge has zero HC/coordinator experience), and go back and look at Romo and Dak's stats season in and season out. An undrafted guy and a 4th rounder and both QBs were/have been incredibly prolific. Even if the QBs came up short in big moments, you can't say he didn't get the most he could out of those guys based on their talent and draft position.
If he gets a HC position in a year or 2 I don't see that as a negative, that will have meant he did a great job and the Giants are competitive again (most likely).
This>>>>>>
Anyway look at the history of successful first year coaches. They usually bring an experienced/ former head coach with them. Mcvay with Phillip's, Nagy had Fangio, Pederson had Schwartz, Dan Quinn had Shannahan, I could go on
RE: PhD candidate, Yale graduate, Princeton grad.... Â
but can somebody who wants Gruden over Garrett please make that argument to me? Please. What has Gruden done in his career to trump Garrett? Gruden just came off of a bad losing record as a HC the last 5 years with the Skins, and it's not like you look at his time with the Bengals and see this vast difference in Andy Dalton's stats with vs. without him. If anything Dalton had his best seasons without Gruden (aside from the one transition season immediately after Gruden left).
Is it literally only because Gruden can bring Callahan with him as OL coach? Seems like a stretch to me to want a guy for OC just for the OL coach he MIGHT bring along.
Please-- someone make the argument to me: Gruden > Garrett. I don't get it.
RE: RE: RE: RE: I want Judge to hire whomever he wants, Â
without ownership or the front office interfering.
And you see evidence of the front office interfering where?
It's a fact that they have determined assistant coaches before. They did it for Coughlin and McAdoo, may have done it for Shurmur. One can have a justified concern without evidence.
It is not a little weird that they hired a QB coach BEFORE the OC. Shurmur was just hired by Denver and axed the QB coach to get his own guy in there. So, something is going on with the OC hire that seems a bit out of line. Otherwise, why not let Garrett come in here - if he is the guy - and hire his own guys? In fact, Kitna - a Garrett guy - was not retained and is available. But if Garrett takes this job, it will be with some or many of his assistants already determined. That is flat out weird.
Or perhaps Garrett told them who he wanted and this hiring was agreed to days ago, but just not announced to avoid messing with his contract.
RE: RE: RE: RE: I want Judge to hire whomever he wants, Â
without ownership or the front office interfering.
And you see evidence of the front office interfering where?
It's a fact that they have determined assistant coaches before. They did it for Coughlin and McAdoo, may have done it for Shurmur. One can have a justified concern without evidence.
sure, but youre telling me the giants forced graham on JJ? lmfao. evidence for THIS hire points to them letting him pick his staff..
No. Judge clearly got to make some of his other hires. But OC may not have been one of them, if Garrett was available to them. I see no other way to explain hiring QB coaches and other guys BEFORE the OC.
without ownership or the front office interfering.
And you see evidence of the front office interfering where?
It's a fact that they have determined assistant coaches before. They did it for Coughlin and McAdoo, may have done it for Shurmur. One can have a justified concern without evidence.
That’s far from a fact. In fact Mara flat out denied this, making the bob mcadoo joke about he didn’t know who ben was before he interviewed.
Mara could be lying, but what you are saying is not verifiable
I would like to see a younger coach such as Shane Waldron of the Rams who has a fair amount of experience, is the passing coordinator and QB coach and obviously comes from a team with a good RB so they know how to have a balanced attack and has Pats ties but if they don't want to go in that type of direction I can live with Garrett.
Romo and Dax have had success under him. I think Jones could do a lot worse and obviously they have a good RB as well.
It is most important that the Giants regain their identity. Good defense, get to the QB, stop the run, run the ball. If you are playing in the Meadowlands you need a solid rushing attack. Can't just drop back 40-50 times. That means a good OL to block and keep the ground game going.
So some people don't want to hire Garrett because there is a chance he will leave in one year for a HC job? Brilliant. So lets hire someone that nobody would want. Any good OC or DC eventually will leave for a HC job.
without ownership or the front office interfering.
And you see evidence of the front office interfering where?
It's a fact that they have determined assistant coaches before. They did it for Coughlin and McAdoo, may have done it for Shurmur. One can have a justified concern without evidence.
It is not a little weird that they hired a QB coach BEFORE the OC. Shurmur was just hired by Denver and axed the QB coach to get his own guy in there. So, something is going on with the OC hire that seems a bit out of line. Otherwise, why not let Garrett come in here - if he is the guy - and hire his own guys? In fact, Kitna - a Garrett guy - was not retained and is available. But if Garrett takes this job, it will be with some or many of his assistants already determined. That is flat out weird.
Or perhaps Garrett told them who he wanted and this hiring was agreed to days ago, but just not announced to avoid messing with his contract.
How? There is no evidence they spoke to - or had the right to - Garrett previously. And the QB coach has a known relationship with Judge. This seems to me like a situation where the Giants are saying be our OC, but you are accepting our previous hires. Or where Judge said, I'll hire your preference for OC, but I want my guys at QB coach, etc. A compromise, so to speak.
role in putting together the Dallas offensive line ... I’d be very happy if he signs on ... Orders of magnitude better than the 30 yo whiz kid with near zero experience.
What is his offensive philosophy? Also, didn't he have a knack for making some bone-headed in-game decisions?
Well, that is the benefit of not having him as head coach. He is not making those in-game decisions. Garrett will call the plays, design the offense, but Judge will decide whether to go for it and will obviously have some involvement in guiding the offense.
When McAdoo was hired as OC, he was helpful for Manning. But Coughlin's presence kept McAdoo in check. Once HC, McAdoo went to 11 personnel on every play. Even if the HC is not calling plays, he is involved with the offense. That will help Garrett.
What is his offensive philosophy? Also, didn't he have a knack for making some bone-headed in-game decisions?
Well, that is the benefit of not having him as head coach. He is not making those in-game decisions. Garrett will call the plays, design the offense, but Judge will decide whether to go for it and will obviously have some involvement in guiding the offense.
When McAdoo was hired as OC, he was helpful for Manning. But Coughlin's presence kept McAdoo in check. Once HC, McAdoo went to 11 personnel on every play. Even if the HC is not calling plays, he is involved with the offense. That will help Garrett.
1) The Giants haven't really interviewed anyone else & waited until Garrett's contract was up.
2) We desperately need a coach with prior HC experience. You can question how good he was at being an HC, but he does have extensive experience.
3) Mara loves him.
The hope is that he can convince Callahan to come on and be the OL coach under him. They have ties back to their Dallas days.
Count me as one that likes this move. Dak and DJ are not too different (I think DJ is a better passer). Garrett did great work with Dak and other QBs he's had. Lastly, Garrett's one and only year as the OC in Dallas, they had the 2nd best offense in the league.
but can somebody who wants Gruden over Garrett please make that argument to me? Please. What has Gruden done in his career to trump Garrett? Gruden just came off of a bad losing record as a HC the last 5 years with the Skins, and it's not like you look at his time with the Bengals and see this vast difference in Andy Dalton's stats with vs. without him. If anything Dalton had his best seasons without Gruden (aside from the one transition season immediately after Gruden left).
Is it literally only because Gruden can bring Callahan with him as OL coach? Seems like a stretch to me to want a guy for OC just for the OL coach he MIGHT bring along.
Please-- someone make the argument to me: Gruden > Garrett. I don't get it.
Leg, FYI, Callahan was Garrett’s OC for 3 years at Dallas too.
1) The Giants haven't really interviewed anyone else & waited until Garrett's contract was up.
2) We desperately need a coach with prior HC experience. You can question how good he was at being an HC, but he does have extensive experience.
3) Mara loves him.
The hope is that he can convince Callahan to come on and be the OL coach under him. They have ties back to their Dallas days.
Count me as one that likes this move. Dak and DJ are not too different (I think DJ is a better passer). Garrett did great work with Dak and other QBs he's had. Lastly, Garrett's one and only year as the OC in Dallas, they had the 2nd best offense in the league.
I agree with this. If they wanted someone who was already available, they'd have signed them. I always believed there was a reason they had waited to hire an OC. I was hoping that reason was Joe Brady. It strongly appears now that it was Garrett.
I'd be very surprised if they don't wrap up a deal with him by later this afternoon. After getting beaten out by Carolina for Rhule, it would be shocking to see them allow a guy they want leave the building and give other teams a shot at him. And if Garrett didn't want the job, he would not be there interviewing for it.
Romo's career passer rating: 97.1
Dak's career passer rating: 97.0
Romo's career comp. %: 65.3%
Dak's career comp. %: 65.8%
Just interesting to see that kind of consistency with the one common denominator being Garrett. Also both had better than a 2:1 TD:INT ratio and Dak's is in fact close to 3:1.
I have no doubt based on what we've seen from DJ that Garrett can get similar or better production out of him.
in that if this happens, I hope it's a move that Judge is behind and not one he felt pressured into making.
There are a lot of reasons that he would make sense as an OC and as a help to Judge, not the least of which I"m sure the organization would like someone on his staff that has had head coaching experience that Judge can lean on.
Of course, from the standpoint at being at Dallas, it's not the worst thing for the Giants to have their OC be in position closely know their entire division, including a Dallas team they haven't beaten forever.
in that if this happens, I hope it's a move that Judge is behind and not one he felt pressured into making.
There are a lot of reasons that he would make sense as an OC and as a help to Judge, not the least of which I"m sure the organization would like someone on his staff that has had head coaching experience that Judge can lean on.
Of course, from the standpoint at being at Dallas, it's not the worst thing for the Giants to have their OC be in position closely know their entire division, including a Dallas team they haven't beaten forever.
Dak to Daniel Jones
Zeke to Saquon Barkley
Witten to Evan Engram
Can help us in the draft room identifying our future all pro Offensive Lineman (Tyron, Fredricks, Martin)
When he remembers what our offensive line is like.
you do realize that the FA period and the draft is still yet to come right? SO some time to improve that area
Gosh, no, I had no idea that the FA period and the draft were still yet to come. Thank you so much for letting me know. I'll sleep much better now.
Oh Good. You had me worried there for a moment the way you had Garrett running from the room affright with our OLine as if it would be the same next year.
I think that Garrett is:
a) undecided whether he wants to remain an NFL coach
b) thinking he might learn a lot from Judge, if Judge embraces all things Belichickian & Sabanly
c) also exploring his media options during the trip
d) figuring if he wants to be a head coach again, this job would be the right stepping stone: good QB, high visibility, and we can only get better
in that if this happens, I hope it's a move that Judge is behind and not one he felt pressured into making.
There are a lot of reasons that he would make sense as an OC and as a help to Judge, not the least of which I"m sure the organization would like someone on his staff that has had head coaching experience that Judge can lean on.
Of course, from the standpoint at being at Dallas, it's not the worst thing for the Giants to have their OC be in position closely know their entire division, including a Dallas team they haven't beaten forever.
I think Garrett would be a good choice at OC. I also think this is something ownership wanted badly. As far as Mara saying it's hands off, I don't believe a word he says, so that means nothing to me.
This hiring is nothing like the others Judge has made. But Judge has his QB coach, which gives him eyes and ears in the room from a guy he knows and trusts. And maybe there is some sort of connection between Garrett and Judge, but the connection appears much stronger between the Giants and Garrett.
Again, not saying it is a bad hiring. Garrett directed pretty good offenses in Dallas, and I don't think Dak is that good a QB. He's a strong proponent of building OLs, so that should fit with the Gettleman philosophy too. They invested a lot of capital in building the Dallas OL, and I think Garrett was a main reason why they did that.
There is no rule that says you cant have 2 Assistant HC's, its not like the title means anything.... Assistant HC, OC,DC, position coaches, they're all considered assistant coaches.
If they like him, and thats the sticking point, name him OC & Assistant HC too.
A significantly improved offensive line
A commitment to run the ball A LOT
Not a very creative passing game
Ideally we'd have a passing game coordinator in addition to Garrett.
Fair questions to raise, but IMO just bc the Cowboys passing game hasn’t been very creative with Dak at QB doesn’t mean Garrett couldn’t do more with Jones
RE: RE: I guess he wasn't deterred by Graham getting the Assistant HC title Â
There is no rule that says you cant have 2 Assistant HC's, its not like the title means anything.... Assistant HC, OC,DC, position coaches, they're all considered assistant coaches.
If they like him, and thats the sticking point, name him OC & Assistant HC too.
Associate HC. Colleges play the title game all the time with both Assistant HC and Associate HC.
RE: RE: RE: RE: Garrett might run from the room, screaming... Â
When he remembers what our offensive line is like.
you do realize that the FA period and the draft is still yet to come right? SO some time to improve that area
Gosh, no, I had no idea that the FA period and the draft were still yet to come. Thank you so much for letting me know. I'll sleep much better now.
Oh Good. You had me worried there for a moment the way you had Garrett running from the room affright with our OLine as if it would be the same next year.
It probably won't be much better this year than it was last year. It took Dallas about four years to build what is arguably the best O-Line in the league. Three 1st Round picks (four, if you figure Collins would have been one), plus a good bit of luck with a UDFA Guard whose name escapes me right now.
Garrett, or whomever gets the OC job, is going to have his work cut out for him designing an efficient and productive offense with our albatross of a line hanging around his neck. Maybe they can get some help in free agency (although it's slim pickings this year), and maybe they can get some help in the draft (although we're already short one premium pick). Maybe even Big George rises Phoenix-like from the ashes and surprises the hell out of everybody. We'll see.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Garrett might run from the room, screaming... Â
When he remembers what our offensive line is like.
you do realize that the FA period and the draft is still yet to come right? SO some time to improve that area
Gosh, no, I had no idea that the FA period and the draft were still yet to come. Thank you so much for letting me know. I'll sleep much better now.
Oh Good. You had me worried there for a moment the way you had Garrett running from the room affright with our OLine as if it would be the same next year.
It probably won't be much better this year than it was last year. It took Dallas about four years to build what is arguably the best O-Line in the league. Three 1st Round picks (four, if you figure Collins would have been one), plus a good bit of luck with a UDFA Guard whose name escapes me right now.
Garrett, or whomever gets the OC job, is going to have his work cut out for him designing an efficient and productive offense with our albatross of a line hanging around his neck. Maybe they can get some help in free agency (although it's slim pickings this year), and maybe they can get some help in the draft (although we're already short one premium pick). Maybe even Big George rises Phoenix-like from the ashes and surprises the hell out of everybody. We'll see.
I think coaching is the biggest problem with the OL
When he remembers what our offensive line is like.
you do realize that the FA period and the draft is still yet to come right? SO some time to improve that area
Gosh, no, I had no idea that the FA period and the draft were still yet to come. Thank you so much for letting me know. I'll sleep much better now.
Oh Good. You had me worried there for a moment the way you had Garrett running from the room affright with our OLine as if it would be the same next year.
It probably won't be much better this year than it was last year. It took Dallas about four years to build what is arguably the best O-Line in the league. Three 1st Round picks (four, if you figure Collins would have been one), plus a good bit of luck with a UDFA Guard whose name escapes me right now.
Garrett, or whomever gets the OC job, is going to have his work cut out for him designing an efficient and productive offense with our albatross of a line hanging around his neck. Maybe they can get some help in free agency (although it's slim pickings this year), and maybe they can get some help in the draft (although we're already short one premium pick). Maybe even Big George rises Phoenix-like from the ashes and surprises the hell out of everybody. We'll see.
No one said it will be easy. Zeitler just two years ago was great. Hernandez was considered a rising star. And Solder was good in the second half of 2018. Now he's a turnstile. No, we don't have the Dallas OL. But it shouldn't be this bad.
Part of the problem is play Halapio. I said this before the season last year; I don't care if he's an average blocker (he isn't), he is the worst center in the NFL because he can't call out simple blocking assignments. That was evident before he got hurt two years ago, and was painfully obvious last year. It is even more important now that we no longer have Manning but a young QB who needs help with that stuff. We can't stop a simple stunt up front. It's garbage. And it really, really hurt both Hernandez and Zeitler last year.
RE: RE: RE: I guess he wasn't deterred by Graham getting the Assistant HC title Â
There is no rule that says you cant have 2 Assistant HC's, its not like the title means anything.... Assistant HC, OC,DC, position coaches, they're all considered assistant coaches.
If they like him, and thats the sticking point, name him OC & Assistant HC too.
Associate HC. Colleges play the title game all the time with both Assistant HC and Associate HC.
In comment 14780602 Klaatu said:
It probably won't be much better this year than it was last year. It took Dallas about four years to build what is arguably the best O-Line in the league. Three 1st Round picks (four, if you figure Collins would have been one), plus a good bit of luck with a UDFA Guard whose name escapes me right now.
Garrett, or whomever gets the OC job, is going to have his work cut out for him designing an efficient and productive offense with our albatross of a line hanging around his neck. Maybe they can get some help in free agency (although it's slim pickings this year), and maybe they can get some help in the draft (although we're already short one premium pick). Maybe even Big George rises Phoenix-like from the ashes and surprises the hell out of everybody. We'll see.
I think coaching is the biggest problem with the OL
Even the best coaches need to have some talent to work with. Acquiring that talent is the GM's job, and in that regard Mr. "Don't sleep on Pio" has been a miserable failure.
His father Jim was an assistant coach under Alex Webster, the last two years as DC. He was not retained by Arnsparger. If hired we could have our first father/son DC/OC. Jason spent three years backing up Kerry Collins who rarely missed a series. As a Giant QB he was coached by Fassel and Payton. Coach Jim Garrett - ( New Window )
If Judge definitely wants someone else, he will speak up and then we go from there. Sure Judge knows about this interview and he will be in attendance before a decision is made. Good news because Garrett will lighten Judges responsibility in the offense giving him more time to pursue his philosophy for team building. Think Judge will be all over this team and needs knowledgeable coordinators, coaches and assistants to help him do that job. What do we have to lose.
without ownership or the front office interfering.
And you see evidence of the front office interfering where?
Exactly. terps, you have NO IDEA if front office is interferring or not. its pretty simple.
1. front office says, you should check him out JJ, see what you think.
2. he worked for saban, so maybe there is a req coming from NS.
3. maybe JJ just knows he needs a good offensive mind in the building and he feels they could click.
we have ZERO knowledge that the front office is forcing this. they have let him hire whoever he wants up to this point
Terps gotta Terps.
I am not going to blame Terps for thinking this. He may be overly negative, but this reeks of ownership involvement. And I am saying this as someone in full support of getting Garrett in here as OC.
and Garrett leaves the building today without being hired
What are his other options? Does he take a year off? this seems like too good of a fit for it to not work out
[/quote]
He's got millions of Jerrah's dollars, no kids and his wife has a Harvard Law degree … If he wants to stay in football this is probably his best option … but me thinks he'll be pretty comfortable with whatever happens.
with Garrett and think this has been discussed with Judge. Anyone who thinks the owners are going to tale a complete backseat to all the hires thier team makes is unrealistic.
we can keep Shula as ASSISTANT TO THE ASSISTANT MANAGER.
Look at you: member of the honor roll, assistant to the assistant manager of the movie theater. I'm tellin' ya, Rat, if this girl can't smell your qualifications, then who needs her, right?
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: I want Judge to hire whomever he wants, Â
I am not going to blame Terps for thinking this. He may be overly negative, but this reeks of ownership involvement. And I am saying this as someone in full support of getting Garrett in here as OC.
Come on, how does it reek of ownership involvement?
Say what you will about Garrett, but he has a proven track record as an offensive mind, knows the NFC East, and has coached in a high-pressure market before. There are lots of reasons for Judge to take a look.
Moreover, the Giants don't have a track record of telling coaches who to hire on staff. Yes, there were rumors that they might have pressured Coughlin to move on from some of his assistants back in 2006, but it's not like they then handed him a list of names to run through. And if they were in the business of meddling, they probably would have made Shurmur ditch Bettcher, a guy whose coaching acumen nobody seemed to like but who Shurmur chose to hitch his wagon to nonetheless.
The folks who think that this is Mara forcing a coach on Judge are taking old conspiracy theories and presenting them as facts, as usual. There's plenty of evidence to suggest that Judge might want to give Garrett a look of his own accord.
we can keep Shula as ASSISTANT TO THE ASSISTANT MANAGER.
Look at you: member of the honor roll, assistant to the assistant manager of the movie theater. I'm tellin' ya, Rat, if this girl can't smell your qualifications, then who needs her, right?
I want YOU to want ME...
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: I want Judge to hire whomever he wants, Â
I am not going to blame Terps for thinking this. He may be overly negative, but this reeks of ownership involvement. And I am saying this as someone in full support of getting Garrett in here as OC.
Come on, how does it reek of ownership involvement?
Say what you will about Garrett, but he has a proven track record as an offensive mind, knows the NFC East, and has coached in a high-pressure market before. There are lots of reasons for Judge to take a look.
Moreover, the Giants don't have a track record of telling coaches who to hire on staff. Yes, there were rumors that they might have pressured Coughlin to move on from some of his assistants back in 2006, but it's not like they then handed him a list of names to run through. And if they were in the business of meddling, they probably would have made Shurmur ditch Bettcher, a guy whose coaching acumen nobody seemed to like but who Shurmur chose to hitch his wagon to nonetheless.
The folks who think that this is Mara forcing a coach on Judge are taking old conspiracy theories and presenting them as facts, as usual. There's plenty of evidence to suggest that Judge might want to give Garrett a look of his own accord.
Quote:
The folks who think that this is Mara forcing a coach on Judge are taking old conspiracy theories and presenting them as facts, as usual. There's plenty of evidence to suggest that Judge might want to give Garrett a look of his own accord.
we can keep Shula as ASSISTANT TO THE ASSISTANT MANAGER.
Look at you: member of the honor roll, assistant to the assistant manager of the movie theater. I'm tellin' ya, Rat, if this girl can't smell your qualifications, then who needs her, right?
we can keep Shula as ASSISTANT TO THE ASSISTANT MANAGER.
Look at you: member of the honor roll, assistant to the assistant manager of the movie theater. I'm tellin' ya, Rat, if this girl can't smell your qualifications, then who needs her, right?
I want YOU to want ME...
The Dream Police! DA DA DA DA!
The lady will have the linguine with white clam sauce, and a coke with no ice.
point of view. Whether he wants to be a HC again or just be Offensive. coordinator or ASST HC, He can also look at some media opportunities after FB here. Where better to be if you got the $$$ than NYC. He was very happy here in the past and Mara likes him a lot. He is as good as most OCs out there. This is good news now get it done.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Im ok with Garrett as long as ... Â
we can keep Shula as ASSISTANT TO THE ASSISTANT MANAGER.
Look at you: member of the honor roll, assistant to the assistant manager of the movie theater. I'm tellin' ya, Rat, if this girl can't smell your qualifications, then who needs her, right?
I want YOU to want ME...
The Dream Police! DA DA DA DA!
The lady will have the linguine with white clam sauce, and a coke with no ice.
Last summer you fell in love with that girl at the Fotomat, you bought forty dollars worth of film and you never even talked to her. You don't even own a camera.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: I want Judge to hire whomever he wants, Â
without ownership or the front office interfering.
And you see evidence of the front office interfering where?
Exactly. terps, you have NO IDEA if front office is interferring or not. its pretty simple.
1. front office says, you should check him out JJ, see what you think.
2. he worked for saban, so maybe there is a req coming from NS.
3. maybe JJ just knows he needs a good offensive mind in the building and he feels they could click.
we have ZERO knowledge that the front office is forcing this. they have let him hire whoever he wants up to this point
Terps gotta Terps.
I am not going to blame Terps for thinking this. He may be overly negative, but this reeks of ownership involvement. And I am saying this as someone in full support of getting Garrett in here as OC.
Must suck to go through life wearing a tin foil hat.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Im ok with Garrett as long as ... Â
we can keep Shula as ASSISTANT TO THE ASSISTANT MANAGER.
Look at you: member of the honor roll, assistant to the assistant manager of the movie theater. I'm tellin' ya, Rat, if this girl can't smell your qualifications, then who needs her, right?
I want YOU to want ME...
The Dream Police! DA DA DA DA!
The lady will have the linguine with white clam sauce, and a coke with no ice.
All right, now pay attention. First of all, Rat, you never let on how much you like a girl. 'Oh, Debbie. Hi.' Two, you always call the shots. 'Kiss me. You won't regret it.' Now three, act like wherever you are, that's the place to be. 'Isn't this great?' Four, when ordering food, you find out what she wants, then order for the both of ya. It's a classy move. 'Now, the lady will have the linguini and white clam sauce, and a Coke with no ice.' And five, now this is the most important, Rat. When it comes down to making out, whenever possible, put on side one of Led Zeppelin IV.
we can keep Shula as ASSISTANT TO THE ASSISTANT MANAGER.
Look at you: member of the honor roll, assistant to the assistant manager of the movie theater. I'm tellin' ya, Rat, if this girl can't smell your qualifications, then who needs her, right?
he's better in the subordinate role. That's just who he is. He abandons the run at times as a playcaller and that's where Judge can step in and say run the damn ball.
The folks who think that this is Mara forcing a coach on Judge are taking old conspiracy theories and presenting them as facts, as usual. There's plenty of evidence to suggest that Judge might want to give Garrett a look of his own accord.
Garrett and Judge both worked under Saban so there's that.
and when it was a problem it typically was the OLine and the run game. I believe Shula was in charge of the passing scheme which seemed ok to me. the OL needed major help and the play calling was odd more often then you'd like. I think they got rid of those who were resposible for the problem areas already, and though i doubt they hold onto shula it would help with DJ having some 'constant' in the Offense. I am not against Garrett and would like an above average OL coach like Callahan seems to be. I don't know if we get them. Considering we are hiring guys from the Dolphins, I'd like to have someone with a proven track record.
If Garrett were to except the OC position this would be a major endorsement of Daniel Jones
Garrett must have studied Jones and believe that he can be a very good QB
It's amazing the difference in opinion between the media and the league. The media mocked the Jones selection and look for every opportunity to say I told you. While, from people in the league, there has been nothing but praise for Jones.
If Garrett were to except the OC position this would be a major endorsement of Daniel Jones
Garrett must have studied Jones and believe that he can be a very good QB
Accept
Or it would just be guy who wants to stay in coaching taking the job that was available to him. No idea if he's got other offers out there. If not, his accepting may say nothing about his feelings on Jones.
Judge saying he is "not going to be the OC, the DC, nor the ST coordinator" in his press conference, along with the fact that the Maras stay the hell out of most football decisions, is appealing to Garrett. He's going to have virtually complete autonomy with the offense especially given Judge's lack of experience it would seem. Hell Garrett might have even more control/freedom here than he did in Dallas considering all of Jerry's (and his son's) meddling that Garrett had to put up with over the years.
Bare in mind 3/4 of the teams have new coaches and offensive philosophies. Granted the main players will be the same but the idea he has some asshat info doe snot amount to much.
I think Garret could be helpful to Judge as a smart guy that has been Â
But the prospect of him designing the offense doesn't really excite me. All offseason, I heard how Kellen Moore was handed the keys to the offense because they were desperate to breath some fresh air into the system. That Garret's offense was very vanilla, outdated, and stagnant. Very little presnap motion. Very little innovation. Just 1990s power football. Maybe that excites some of you, but I'm hoping to see a more modern approach to things. For example, Saquon is a very different back than Zeke. Hope the offense reflects that.
Bare in mind 3/4 of the teams have new coaches and offensive philosophies. Granted the main players will be the same but the idea he has some asshat info doe snot amount to much.
He'll know the players of Dallas inside and out, and should help against Philly. He's been much more successful against them than us.
still odd to me that folks are pissed we couldn't get Joe Brady, who has never called a game for a NFL team...but absolutely hate the idea of having Jason Garrett as our OC, who has been the coordinator for dominant offenses in the NFL for multiple seasons.
There has to be some type of "meet in the middle" on this.
Garrett is a very good NFL offensive coordinator, is good with QBs, and has HC experience that is invaluable, although most just like to make fun of him because he couldn't win a Super Bowl.
During that time, the Cowboys had a 13 win season, an 11 win season and a 9 win season. They were the #2 offense in 2007, #7 in 2010 and 18th and 14th the other two seasons. Perhaps dominant isn't the right word for 3/4th of the time, but it isn't like he was terrible.
I know giving him credit is like pulling fucking teeth for some of you though.
Well it has been like 6 hours since it was reported that he was Â
During that time, the Cowboys had a 13 win season, an 11 win season and a 9 win season. They were the #2 offense in 2007, #7 in 2010 and 18th and 14th the other two seasons. Perhaps dominant isn't the right word for 3/4th of the time, but it isn't like he was terrible.
I know giving him credit is like pulling fucking teeth for some of you though.
Not for me, though. If Judge wants him and they get along sign him up. He has obvious and useful virtues.
RE: RE: Well it has been like 6 hours since it was reported that he was Â
During that time, the Cowboys had a 13 win season, an 11 win season and a 9 win season. They were the #2 offense in 2007, #7 in 2010 and 18th and 14th the other two seasons. Perhaps dominant isn't the right word for 3/4th of the time, but it isn't like he was terrible.
I know giving him credit is like pulling fucking teeth for some of you though.
Thinking of that 07 team brought back the glorious playoff memory of Eli leading us to a TD in about 47 sec right before the half!
fine with Garrett. He'd be a very good OC IMO. I do agree he might leave after one year, but that could happen with many good coordinators. I doubt Mara is doing anything to influence who Judge hires. I'm sure Judge has complete discretion to hire who he wants.
During that time, the Cowboys had a 13 win season, an 11 win season and a 9 win season. They were the #2 offense in 2007, #7 in 2010 and 18th and 14th the other two seasons. Perhaps dominant isn't the right word for 3/4th of the time, but it isn't like he was terrible.
And to be fair to Garrett, he had less than a full deck in 2008: Terrell Owens having his usual "get me out of here" meltdowns, Romo getting injured, and being forced to play Brad Johnson and Brooks Bollinger at QB.
I like Garrett for the OC position - I think he did well as an OC Â
he knows the division extremely well, and he'd be an established veteran coaching presence that the team could use.
I think some of you need to take a deep fucking breath though - a few posters suggest that it might be problematic if Garrett was forced on Judge, and you get your panties in a twist. It's as if you haven't seen the disjointed mess the Giants have been for most of the last decade.
Given the other coaching hires, I don't think Garrett is Gettleman or Mara's doing, but it's fair to say that if they were involved or pushed the matter in any way it raises some concern. Of course the guy hasn't even been hired yet, so it's all hypothetical to this point.
I know a lot of negativity abounds around here with Garrett... Â
but every September we complain that we open against DAL. A lot of those years we laughed at certain BBI DAL fans who talked all off-season about how DAL was going to be better than NYG. Year after year we've had opportunities early in the season with a fairly healthy roster to show up DAL, but almost every single year it's the same story.
DAL comes prepared, executes and kicks our teeth in. We look sloppy.
If we have a chance to grab some of that coaching magic that got DAL so much more prepared every year against us each summer than we could manage to be against them, I'm all for it.
Results:
Sept. 2019
DAL 35
NYG 17
Sept. 2018
DAL 20
NYG 13
Sept. 2017
DAL 19
NYG 3
Sept. 2016
DAL 19
NYG 20
Sept. 2015
DAL 27
NYG 26
Oct. 2014
DAL 31
NYG 21
Sept. 2013
DAL 36
NYG 31
Sept. 2012
DAL 24
NYG 17
Won't go any further back because we didn't play in 2012 until so late in the season and my point was that his teams were prepared to kick our butts early on every single year.
A lot of that is on the coaching - how prepared you are to play at the beginning of the season.
Given the other coaching hires, I don't think Garrett is Gettleman or Mara's doing, but it's fair to say that if they were involved or pushed the matter in any way it raises some concern.
Because of Shurmur and McAdoo?? That means if they had any input we should be concerned? Some of you look for any way possible to inject incompetence to the organization.
perhaps dominant isn’t the right word, but when you’re the OC of too 5 offenses for multiple seasons that’s a good indication. Cowboys have kicked our asses for years now and he’s had a pretty good hand in all of those offenses whether HC or OC.
you've got a first year HC who was the low man on the totem pole as special team coach and potentially an OC who was a HC for 9 years. Very interesting situation.
During that time, the Cowboys had a 13 win season, an 11 win season and a 9 win season. They were the #2 offense in 2007, #7 in 2010 and 18th and 14th the other two seasons. Perhaps dominant isn't the right word for 3/4th of the time, but it isn't like he was terrible.
I know giving him credit is like pulling fucking teeth for some of you though.
I read from I think Ralph V (I think it was him...somebody on Twitter) that Garrett’s offenses were top 5 in two of his three years as coordinator. You only show him top 5 one of the three years. I trust your numbers more. So I guess I can’t use this as evidence to show what an awesome OC he was in Dallas...but he was pretty good.
Given the other coaching hires, I don't think Garrett is Gettleman or Mara's doing, but it's fair to say that if they were involved or pushed the matter in any way it raises some concern.
Because of Shurmur and McAdoo?? That means if they had any input we should be concerned? Some of you look for any way possible to inject incompetence to the organization.
First off - *if* Judge had less than 100% say in this matter, it should be concerning. It raises a number of problems, the first and foremost being trust and ultimately accountability.
Second - there's no need to inject any incompetence to this organization. They've been one of the worst teams in the league the past three years running. This year we saw an offense falling apart at the seams, and a HC refuse to turn over playcalling to an OC who was his third choice at best and in all likelihood could have been forced upon him by the FO.
You earn trust - if the Giants have lost it with a lot of their fans, there's a damn good reason.
RE: I like Garrett for the OC position - I think he did well as an OC Â
he knows the division extremely well, and he'd be an established veteran coaching presence that the team could use.
I think some of you need to take a deep fucking breath though - a few posters suggest that it might be problematic if Garrett was forced on Judge, and you get your panties in a twist. It's as if you haven't seen the disjointed mess the Giants have been for most of the last decade.
Given the other coaching hires, I don't think Garrett is Gettleman or Mara's doing, but it's fair to say that if they were involved or pushed the matter in any way it raises some concern. Of course the guy hasn't even been hired yet, so it's all hypothetical to this point.
Um, no. It’s the certain segment of the fan base here that assumes Garrett was forced on Judge and then use that assumption to bash the organization to fit their hot takes. It must be exhausting to manufacture outrage over assumptions and suppositions, but hey to each their own...
RE: RE: I like Garrett for the OC position - I think he did well as an OC Â
he knows the division extremely well, and he'd be an established veteran coaching presence that the team could use.
I think some of you need to take a deep fucking breath though - a few posters suggest that it might be problematic if Garrett was forced on Judge, and you get your panties in a twist. It's as if you haven't seen the disjointed mess the Giants have been for most of the last decade.
Given the other coaching hires, I don't think Garrett is Gettleman or Mara's doing, but it's fair to say that if they were involved or pushed the matter in any way it raises some concern. Of course the guy hasn't even been hired yet, so it's all hypothetical to this point.
Um, no. It’s the certain segment of the fan base here that assumes Garrett was forced on Judge and then use that assumption to bash the organization to fit their hot takes. It must be exhausting to manufacture outrage over assumptions and suppositions, but hey to each their own...
Given the other coaching hires, I don't think Garrett is Gettleman or Mara's doing, but it's fair to say that if they were involved or pushed the matter in any way it raises some concern.
Because of Shurmur and McAdoo?? That means if they had any input we should be concerned? Some of you look for any way possible to inject incompetence to the organization.
First off - *if* Judge had less than 100% say in this matter, it should be concerning. It raises a number of problems, the first and foremost being trust and ultimately accountability.
Second - there's no need to inject any incompetence to this organization. They've been one of the worst teams in the league the past three years running. This year we saw an offense falling apart at the seams, and a HC refuse to turn over playcalling to an OC who was his third choice at best and in all likelihood could have been forced upon him by the FO.
You earn trust - if the Giants have lost it with a lot of their fans, there's a damn good reason.
FMIC - you just argue pro-Giants all day long. But people have every right to doubt their moves when they have fired two coaches in four years and are 12-36 in the last three seasons. When the answer to the question of "what team has the worst record in the NFL over the past three seasons" is the Giants, Giants' ownership does not get my vote of confidence. I have my right to that opinion too.
Just because you cant mind read and cant have imaginary conversations or see into walls of buildings you have never been near to see into skulls of people you don't know is no reason to bash people who can
And if they were not acting to fix that I would agree. that would be terrible
If they did fire that many folks in pursuit of better and search pretty widely to fix that...does that earn a respite to see what happens of does the same conclusion persist absent confirmation it may no longer apply?
Serious question: Why put so much emotional energy behind a group you have contempt for???
RE: RE: RE: I like Garrett for the OC position - I think he did well as an OC Â
he knows the division extremely well, and he'd be an established veteran coaching presence that the team could use.
I think some of you need to take a deep fucking breath though - a few posters suggest that it might be problematic if Garrett was forced on Judge, and you get your panties in a twist. It's as if you haven't seen the disjointed mess the Giants have been for most of the last decade.
Given the other coaching hires, I don't think Garrett is Gettleman or Mara's doing, but it's fair to say that if they were involved or pushed the matter in any way it raises some concern. Of course the guy hasn't even been hired yet, so it's all hypothetical to this point.
Um, no. It’s the certain segment of the fan base here that assumes Garrett was forced on Judge and then use that assumption to bash the organization to fit their hot takes. It must be exhausting to manufacture outrage over assumptions and suppositions, but hey to each their own...
Just because you cant mind read and cant have imaginary conversations or see into walls of buildings you have never been near to see into skulls of people you don't know is no reason to bash people who can
I apologize for overstepping. I appreciate you bringing me back to my center...
FMIC - you just argue pro-Giants all day long. But people have every right to doubt their moves when they have fired two coaches in four years and are 12-36 in the last three seasons. When the answer to the question of "what team has the worst record in the NFL over the past three seasons" is the Giants, Giants' ownership does not get my vote of confidence. I have my right to that opinion too.
Sure, gripe about how bad the team has been. They've messed up both coaching and GM hirings and firings. They covered up domestic abuse on the part of their kicker and have made some serious gaffes.
But there's no reason to make up things to complain about, especially when there are legitimate reasons to drag management over the coals. There's no evidence at all that Mara or anybody else has forced assistants on a coach. All anybody has to support that claim is vague BBI rumor that they've decided to accept as fact with no corroboration.
Every beat writer who has been asked publicly has stated that Judge has control of the staff, including the potential hiring of Garrett. If you want to worry that Judge is the wrong guy for the job, that's a legit thing to worry about--the Giants haven't picked very good head coaches, and Judge is very unproven. But it's obnoxious to have people making up stuff and/or accepting conjecture as facts because it allows them to paint the team in an even more negative light.
There are plenty of gripes to have about this team. No need to make up more.
FMIC - you just argue pro-Giants all day long. But people have every right to doubt their moves when they have fired two coaches in four years and are 12-36 in the last three seasons. When the answer to the question of "what team has the worst record in the NFL over the past three seasons" is the Giants, Giants' ownership does not get my vote of confidence. I have my right to that opinion too.
Sure, gripe about how bad the team has been. They've messed up both coaching and GM hirings and firings. They covered up domestic abuse on the part of their kicker and have made some serious gaffes.
But there's no reason to make up things to complain about, especially when there are legitimate reasons to drag management over the coals. There's no evidence at all that Mara or anybody else has forced assistants on a coach. All anybody has to support that claim is vague BBI rumor that they've decided to accept as fact with no corroboration.
Every beat writer who has been asked publicly has stated that Judge has control of the staff, including the potential hiring of Garrett. If you want to worry that Judge is the wrong guy for the job, that's a legit thing to worry about--the Giants haven't picked very good head coaches, and Judge is very unproven. But it's obnoxious to have people making up stuff and/or accepting conjecture as facts because it allows them to paint the team in an even more negative light.
There are plenty of gripes to have about this team. No need to make up more.
I'm not making up a gripe. I'd actually be fine with Garrett as OC. I was simply saying that the Giants don't deserve any one's trust until they earn it.
could not agree more. The past yields enough to complain about. Lets not make up stuff to worry about while we wait for the product on the field in the second half of next year
If they continue to make mistakes we can only do one of two things:
1) Admit they tried and did go out of their way to do well but we don't want to wait to see if they get better any longer. Need to tie our rooting instincts to a winner cycle and not a loser cycle. Sorry Giants, cant wait any longer, we have to move on to rooting for another team or sport or activity
2) Wait until the second half of next year to see if there is progress
What we shouldn't do is make up stuff to be mad about as if that's about them and not really about us
I hate to interrupt the high fiving when there's been so little Â
to be cheery about the past few years, but the vast majority weren't even complaining about the hire - just worried that the Giants might be pushing Judge to make a hire he's not 100% onboard with.
If you can't understand why people would be worried about that, not sure there's any point in continuing the discussion, carry on your celebration. The next time you can really grade the Giants on progress is 8 months away, and until then all there will be is a back and forth exchange of opinions. Many of them will be negative, as you'd expect from a team that has managed 12 wins cumulatively over the combined last 3 seasons.
RE: I hate to interrupt the high fiving when there's been so little Â
to be cheery about the past few years, but the vast majority weren't even complaining about the hire - just worried that the Giants might be pushing Judge to make a hire he's not 100% onboard with.
If you can't understand why people would be worried about that, not sure there's any point in continuing the discussion, carry on your celebration. The next time you can really grade the Giants on progress is 8 months away, and until then all there will be is a back and forth exchange of opinions. Many of them will be negative, as you'd expect from a team that has managed 12 wins cumulatively over the combined last 3 seasons.
Geez ... it’s January of a new year ... the sun is shining, the air is clean and we’re still undefeated in 2020 ... lighten up
RE: I hate to interrupt the high fiving when there's been so little Â
to be cheery about the past few years, but the vast majority weren't even complaining about the hire - just worried that the Giants might be pushing Judge to make a hire he's not 100% onboard with.
If you can't understand why people would be worried about that, not sure there's any point in continuing the discussion, carry on your celebration. The next time you can really grade the Giants on progress is 8 months away, and until then all there will be is a back and forth exchange of opinions. Many of them will be negative, as you'd expect from a team that has managed 12 wins cumulatively over the combined last 3 seasons.
Funny lead in and well put...
RE: I hate to interrupt the high fiving when there's been so little Â
to be cheery about the past few years, but the vast majority weren't even complaining about the hire - just worried that the Giants might be pushing Judge to make a hire he's not 100% onboard with.
If you can't understand why people would be worried about that, not sure there's any point in continuing the discussion, carry on your celebration. The next time you can really grade the Giants on progress is 8 months away, and until then all there will be is a back and forth exchange of opinions. Many of them will be negative, as you'd expect from a team that has managed 12 wins cumulatively over the combined last 3 seasons.
Well there are two ways you can look at this. You can either be optimistic when presented with change or you can continue to wallow in misery. I see you've made your choice. Have fun with that.
to be cheery about the past few years, but the vast majority weren't even complaining about the hire - just worried that the Giants might be pushing Judge to make a hire he's not 100% onboard with.
If you can't understand why people would be worried about that, not sure there's any point in continuing the discussion, carry on your celebration. .........
You are right, many of us don't understand this Giants pushing Judge to hire certain coaches mantra. If they were pushing him, he'd be done by know and wouldn't be interviewing...
I don't argue pro-Giants. I argue against the miserable fucks who want to pin all the past woes on the current management and assume things will stay that way.
I argue against people who regale the board about "The Giants Way" or who say for months we are destined to have Jason Garrett as Head Coach because that's what will happen - and even when we lose a candidate that the Media speculates we wanted, they go apeshit about Gettleman not being able to work with anyone and that Garrett is the guy.
I argue against people who talk about mandates and meddling. That if management had anything to do with hires that they are doomed to suck.
I'll basically stick to what I said before because it is most definitely a viewpoint that some posters do take, as fucked up as it may be:
Quote:
Garrett will be a great hire unless the board finds out Mara or Gettleman had anything to do with it - then it will be a terrible hire!!
he knows the division extremely well, and he'd be an established veteran coaching presence that the team could use.
I think some of you need to take a deep fucking breath though - a few posters suggest that it might be problematic if Garrett was forced on Judge, and you get your panties in a twist. It's as if you haven't seen the disjointed mess the Giants have been for most of the last decade.
Given the other coaching hires, I don't think Garrett is Gettleman or Mara's doing, but it's fair to say that if they were involved or pushed the matter in any way it raises some concern. Of course the guy hasn't even been hired yet, so it's all hypothetical to this point.
Um, no. It’s the certain segment of the fan base here that assumes Garrett was forced on Judge and then use that assumption to bash the organization to fit their hot takes. It must be exhausting to manufacture outrage over assumptions and suppositions, but hey to each their own...
You're not allowed to rent videos here anymore!
Out of sight! You're right. No more videos.
RE: RE: I hate to interrupt the high fiving when there's been so little Â
to be cheery about the past few years, but the vast majority weren't even complaining about the hire - just worried that the Giants might be pushing Judge to make a hire he's not 100% onboard with.
If you can't understand why people would be worried about that, not sure there's any point in continuing the discussion, carry on your celebration. The next time you can really grade the Giants on progress is 8 months away, and until then all there will be is a back and forth exchange of opinions. Many of them will be negative, as you'd expect from a team that has managed 12 wins cumulatively over the combined last 3 seasons.
Well there are two ways you can look at this. You can either be optimistic when presented with change or you can continue to wallow in misery. I see you've made your choice. Have fun with that.
So opting against baseless optimism is wallowing in misery?
The Giants are the second worst team in the NFL since Gettleman took over. That's not opinion, it's a fact. Is observing that reality wallowing in misery? Is skepticism over this regime unjustified? If so, how many miserable seasons do we have to endure before it's ok to be critical? Tell us when it's ok.
There's a group of people here that would watch a plane fly into a mountain and tell themselves everyone on board is fine because anything else is wallowing in misery. And they expect everyone else to also delude themselves.
Just tell us when it's ok to actually ask why the Giants suck. Because some of us are actually tired of it.
could not agree more. The past yields enough to complain about. Lets not make up stuff to worry about while we wait for the product on the field in the second half of next year
If they continue to make mistakes we can only do one of two things:
1) Admit they tried and did go out of their way to do well but we don't want to wait to see if they get better any longer. Need to tie our rooting instincts to a winner cycle and not a loser cycle. Sorry Giants, cant wait any longer, we have to move on to rooting for another team or sport or activity
2) Wait until the second half of next year to see if there is progress
What we shouldn't do is make up stuff to be mad about as if that's about them and not really about us
Yes, the Giants performance over most of the past decade and the decisions that got them there is really about us...
Nope
Jimmy Googs : 9:38 pm : link : reply
You argue pro-Giants basically every day of the week.
And twice on Mondays....
Then show me where I'm calling our recent run great. Show me where I'm calling Gettleman a great GM. Show me where I'm calling Eli a top QB.
Being pro-Giants would indicate that I find them doing little to no wrong. They've done a lot wrong. What I don't do is spend all my time lamenting mistakes as if each negative post has restorative powers. What I don't do is assume that because we've made some moves that haven't worked that all moves suck. What I don't do is ignore that the team between 2012 to now has had a ton of issues and forge forward acting as if the current GM is the most incompetent man to walk this Earth.
If I was so Pro-Giants, I'd be championing the team instead of pointing out inaccuracies, inconsistencies and the fucked up logic used by many who spend each and every day ranting like fucking lunatics.
Blinded by the losses that they don't even have the wherewithall to step back and see certain things.
Maybe it is just me, but if I spent the past several years unearthing each and every thing I could think of to put the Giants down as old, stodgy, and too out of touch to think boldly. If I could tell the board exactly what the Giants ownership thoughts were on every move without ever being in the building or knowing key facts and then see the turnover in the past several years where A GM and his Right-Hand man are fired, where two whole coaching staffs are canned, followed by making a really bold decision on a new HC who seems to be hiring certain qualities instead of retread names I'd probably shut the fuck up for awhile.
But instead it is just more of the same with new narratives being created
I don't know what you do on Mondays, but if it is anything like today, it is assuming what others are posting and usually being dead fucking wrong about it.
So they waited. He may drop the ball in the interview just because of temporary burnout and his mind really isn’t focused on being forced to take an OC job after 10 years as HC.
Shula May be the backup plan. I could be okay with either with a HC like Judge.
about internal tensions and a ton of external pressure if the Giants struggle well into Judge's first season.
Well about 6 bad years out of 7 will make it rough. But, the 1st year should be a gimme...it is progress that counts. They will start out poorly because the CBA only allows so much practice(well new coaches get a few extra). NFL is too complex to just step right in and succeed. I expect not only new coaches but a ton of new players....patience is a virtue and patience around Giantsville is wearing thin.
Put yourself in Garrett's position. You've been a n NFL head coach for 10 years. Now you get a call from the Giants (your former team) come help out their young head coach. You want to do it, except ...
They have another inexperienced guy in the mix (Graham); will there be circumstances that you have to answer to him ?
It could get complicated when the bullets start flying. You're trying to reason with the young head coach, but now this other guy shoots you logic down. How long can you deal with that ?
Still, the Cowboys offense was usually pretty good during his tenure. They had the NFL's top-ranked offense this past season, averaging 431.5 yard per game. It was the fifth time in his tenure Dallas ranked in the Top 7 in total offense. ****And they ranked in the Top 3 twice in his three years as the Cowboys offensive coordinator before that.****
Does anyone have a link to confirm that the comment highlighted is true or false? “That the Cowboys were ranked in the top 3 twice in Garrett’s three years as Cowboys OC before he became HC?“
This is still gnawing at me. I’d love for it to be true, but one very reputable poster here took exception so,I would like to confirm this once and for all. I will keep looking too.
RE: RE: RE: I hate to interrupt the high fiving when there's been so little Â
So opting against baseless optimism is wallowing in misery?
The Giants are the second worst team in the NFL since Gettleman took over. That's not opinion, it's a fact. Is observing that reality wallowing in misery? Is skepticism over this regime unjustified? If so, how many miserable seasons do we have to endure before it's ok to be critical? Tell us when it's ok.
There's a group of people here that would watch a plane fly into a mountain and tell themselves everyone on board is fine because anything else is wallowing in misery. And they expect everyone else to also delude themselves.
Just tell us when it's ok to actually ask why the Giants suck. Because some of us are actually tired of it.
Some interesting logic on this thread - like you should just be optimistic regardless of what you're seeing, and that there's no point in discussing the merits of a move that hasn't happened yet.
I guess a lot of people are Stuart Smalley fans, and just really need their daily affirmation.
Either things are going to improve, or in a few years you won't be able to tell Giants fans apart from Redskins fans. All we're missing is Joe Gibbs' "Master Plan" at this point.
But the exact opposite is also occurring here too (your post included) Â
Still, the Cowboys offense was usually pretty good during his tenure. They had the NFL's top-ranked offense this past season, averaging 431.5 yard per game. It was the fifth time in his tenure Dallas ranked in the Top 7 in total offense. ****And they ranked in the Top 3 twice in his three years as the Cowboys offensive coordinator before that.****
Does anyone have a link to confirm that the comment highlighted is true or false? “That the Cowboys were ranked in the top 3 twice in Garrett’s three years as Cowboys OC before he became HC?“
This is still gnawing at me. I’d love for it to be true, but one very reputable poster here took exception so,I would like to confirm this once and for all. I will keep looking too.
Yes, I found the answer. If interested, here are the stats: Offense rank for 2007-2009, the years Garrett was OC with Dallas....
2007:
Points scored 2nd. Total yards...3rd
2008:
Points scored ...18. Total yards...13
2009:
Points scored...14. Total yards....2nd
So, depending on what stat means most to you, Ralph V was right if you use TOTAL YARDS as the category that interested you. Obviously, if you use TOTAL POINTS SCORED, he would not be right.
metric you use on the offenses ranking. In yards, they were top 5 twice and top 10 3 times in Garrett's OC tenure. Points is different. Look to the right side of the table linked Dallas Yearly Records and Rankings - ( New Window )
To those who are so concerned about Mara pushing JG on JJ Â
“I certainly wouldn’t have any objection to that (JG being OC),” co-owner John Mara said last week. “I have a lot of respect for Jason. At the end of the day, that’s going to be Joe’s decision.”
I don't think JG would've been interviewed if JJ didn't want him to be.
to be cheery about the past few years, but the vast majority weren't even complaining about the hire - just worried that the Giants might be pushing Judge to make a hire he's not 100% onboard with.
If you can't understand why people would be worried about that, not sure there's any point in continuing the discussion, carry on your celebration. The next time you can really grade the Giants on progress is 8 months away, and until then all there will be is a back and forth exchange of opinions. Many of them will be negative, as you'd expect from a team that has managed 12 wins cumulatively over the combined last 3 seasons.
So you literally are just making something up to bitch about out of thin air. No basis, but simply "what if"?
metric you use on the offenses ranking. In yards, they were top 5 twice and top 10 3 times in Garrett's OC tenure. Points is different. Look to the right side of the table linked Dallas Yearly Records and Rankings - ( New Window )
So Ralph V used total yards instead of points scored to make that comment. I guess he wanted to support his agenda (promote Garrett) with more convincing stats. Me personally, I prefer total points over yards...might have red zone issues.
RE: RE: I hate to interrupt the high fiving when there's been so little Â
to be cheery about the past few years, but the vast majority weren't even complaining about the hire - just worried that the Giants might be pushing Judge to make a hire he's not 100% onboard with.
If you can't understand why people would be worried about that, not sure there's any point in continuing the discussion, carry on your celebration. The next time you can really grade the Giants on progress is 8 months away, and until then all there will be is a back and forth exchange of opinions. Many of them will be negative, as you'd expect from a team that has managed 12 wins cumulatively over the combined last 3 seasons.
So you literally are just making something up to bitch about out of thin air. No basis, but simply "what if"?
First off - I'm not even the one who made the complaints. I actually liked the Judge hire, and I think Garrett would be a good addition to the coaching staff if he ultimately gets the job.
But this 'making something up to bitch about' is overblown. It's discussion. It was pointed out as a possible concern. This team has been SO FUCKING BAD for such a long time, that I don't fault people for finding ways that shit can blow up. Jumping all over people and calling them bad fans or accusing them of being overly negative in an attempt to discourage any discussion of a potential problem is silly.
metric you use on the offenses ranking. In yards, they were top 5 twice and top 10 3 times in Garrett's OC tenure. Points is different. Look to the right side of the table linked Dallas Yearly Records and Rankings - ( New Window )
So Ralph V used total yards instead of points scored to make that comment. I guess he wanted to support his agenda (promote Garrett) with more convincing stats. Me personally, I prefer total points over yards...might have red zone issues.
Either way shows a better than average to a very good offense
good for Jones is a foolish reason for the hire. We have a QB coach whose job is to coach the QB, we need an OC who is good for the whole Offense game plan...
how comfortable a brand new HC would feel about having a
OC, who spent 10 years as a HC working alongside him?
I have to believe this interview most likely came from Mara and DG, just a guess.
I mean Garrett did play here for a couple years
as a backup to Kerry Collins, so the Giants have always liked him.
He did a good job with Romo in Dallas,
especially when he was just getting started as a
QB there. I think Wade Phillips was the HC then, until he got axed.
They could do worse than Garrett,
and probably will if they don't hire him, LOL.
there were a number of posters who said if we have a young HC, he needs to bring in experienced coordinators. Then when it is rumored he will, people are freaking out that the coordinators are going to be pressing for the HC job or intimidating the young guy with their mere presence on the sidelines.
And of course the logical offshoot of that is that Mara and DG are forcing the hire. Shhesh.
That Garrett or somebody else would be 'pressing' for
the HC position. I am simply stating that a guy who was a long shot to become the HC in the first place, and has never been a HC before, just might not be extremely comfortable with the possible hiring at the outset.
It doesn't mean it couldn't work.
As i said, I believe that Mara and the GM most likely
talked to Judge about interviewing Garrett.
I mean, they do like Garrett, from his time here as a player, and from afar.
there were a number of posters who said if we have a young HC, he needs to bring in experienced coordinators. Then when it is rumored he will, people are freaking out that the coordinators are going to be pressing for the HC job or intimidating the young guy with their mere presence on the sidelines.
And of course the logical offshoot of that is that Mara and DG are forcing the hire. Shhesh.
Are you doing the old 'BBI sez' thing again? Because you and I both know you're referring to different posters and different opinions there.
So basically - taken as a whole, BBI is all over the place regarding a potential Jason Garrett hire. Did or should you have expected differently? Some people didn't like the Judge hire, some loved it. Some people liked Garrett as a potential HC, some hated him. Why would you expect some sort of magical harmonization of opinion at this point given how people's opinions diverged so greatly before he was an OC candidate?
Link - ( New Window )
Doubt it.
If the offense is good enough that Garrett warrants HC consideration, I'll be more than happy letting him move on.
2. Can give player insights on a division rival
3. Ex-QB and OC who has developed young QBs
That is called a good problem, because that means the Giants' offense was successful, as he is not getting a HC offer unless his offense works. Second, I doubt he will emerge as a candidate that quickly. It is not as if he won SBs (see McCarthy). He will have to work his way back up, and one year will not be enough.
He would be a valuable resource for a first time HC.
Bottom line is, as just the offensive coordinator, he is really good.
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but I think he�d be good for DJ. The only problem is that he�ll probably receive a HC call next season, leaving DJ with 3 OCs in 3 years
Doubt it.
I agree with 56. If the O looks good, he will most certainly be a candidate next year.
If they move forward, I think both parties have to agree to 2-3 years before being allowed to interview.
Who cares if he has "giants ties"
He is a good offensive coach and i think he would be great for DJ and his development.
He also provides some veteran leadership on offense and to JJ if he needs.
He also knows a division rival inside and out, that cant hurt.
Im totally fine with this type of hiring as the pother guys they have brought in are JJs guys and this hire will truly allow for a strong leader on the offensive side
you have to think he rather land somewhere instead of sitting the year out. if he comes in and giants offense is good, he will be considered for another head coaching position in 2021 or maybe the year after. if he sits out, who knows. at this point, i dont think he cares about the extra title....he wants to stay in the game
Why would he? That title is meaningless, especially to someone like Garrett.
So you want him to get whoever he wants, except if he wants holdovers from the last regime, except for the ST coach?
My preference is Caldwell, but I would be happy with Garrett.
This would be a awesome ....
Good point, Moe
And you see evidence of the front office interfering where?
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without ownership or the front office interfering.
And you see evidence of the front office interfering where?
Exactly. terps, you have NO IDEA if front office is interferring or not. its pretty simple.
1. front office says, you should check him out JJ, see what you think.
2. he worked for saban, so maybe there is a req coming from NS.
3. maybe JJ just knows he needs a good offensive mind in the building and he feels they could click.
we have ZERO knowledge that the front office is forcing this. they have let him hire whoever he wants up to this point
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without ownership or the front office interfering.
And you see evidence of the front office interfering where?
There is no evidence of it, and Judge has hired other assistants with whom he has relationships. But this sees like something that ownership will be really behind, if not advocating. I can't speak to whether ownership is advocating this.
Garrett was my second choice for OC, so it's hard not to be happy about this. As a a HC, he is not good. As an OC, he could be very good.
If nothing else, I like the idea of having Garrett here to help us finally beat Dallas.... not that Shurmur helped us beat Philly lol
Lol. It was Dunleavey, so it's most likely wrong
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without ownership or the front office interfering.
And you see evidence of the front office interfering where?
It's a fact that they have determined assistant coaches before. They did it for Coughlin and McAdoo, may have done it for Shurmur. One can have a justified concern without evidence.
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without ownership or the front office interfering.
And you see evidence of the front office interfering where?
I don't, and I'm not saying there definitely is.
But it's not a crazy thing to think.
If he gets a HC position in a year or 2 I don't see that as a negative, that will have meant he did a great job and the Giants are competitive again (most likely).
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but I think he’d be good for DJ. The only problem is that he’ll probably receive a HC call next season, leaving DJ with 3 OCs in 3 years
If the offense is good enough that Garrett warrants HC consideration, I'll be more than happy letting him move on.
This.
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In comment 14780456 Go Terps said:
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without ownership or the front office interfering.
And you see evidence of the front office interfering where?
It's a fact that they have determined assistant coaches before. They did it for Coughlin and McAdoo, may have done it for Shurmur. One can have a justified concern without evidence.
sure, but youre telling me the giants forced graham on JJ? lmfao. evidence for THIS hire points to them letting him pick his staff..
Would be a pretty intellectual top 3 :) .
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In comment 14780456 Go Terps said:
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without ownership or the front office interfering.
And you see evidence of the front office interfering where?
It's a fact that they have determined assistant coaches before. They did it for Coughlin and McAdoo, may have done it for Shurmur. One can have a justified concern without evidence.
It is not a little weird that they hired a QB coach BEFORE the OC. Shurmur was just hired by Denver and axed the QB coach to get his own guy in there. So, something is going on with the OC hire that seems a bit out of line. Otherwise, why not let Garrett come in here - if he is the guy - and hire his own guys? In fact, Kitna - a Garrett guy - was not retained and is available. But if Garrett takes this job, it will be with some or many of his assistants already determined. That is flat out weird.
If he gets a HC position in a year or 2 I don't see that as a negative, that will have meant he did a great job and the Giants are competitive again (most likely).
This>>>>>>
Anyway look at the history of successful first year coaches. They usually bring an experienced/ former head coach with them. Mcvay with Phillip's, Nagy had Fangio, Pederson had Schwartz, Dan Quinn had Shannahan, I could go on
Would be a pretty intellectual top 3 :) .
The next Jeopardy GOAT challenge
Is it literally only because Gruden can bring Callahan with him as OL coach? Seems like a stretch to me to want a guy for OC just for the OL coach he MIGHT bring along.
Please-- someone make the argument to me: Gruden > Garrett. I don't get it.
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In comment 14780460 Chris in Philly said:
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In comment 14780456 Go Terps said:
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without ownership or the front office interfering.
And you see evidence of the front office interfering where?
It's a fact that they have determined assistant coaches before. They did it for Coughlin and McAdoo, may have done it for Shurmur. One can have a justified concern without evidence.
It is not a little weird that they hired a QB coach BEFORE the OC. Shurmur was just hired by Denver and axed the QB coach to get his own guy in there. So, something is going on with the OC hire that seems a bit out of line. Otherwise, why not let Garrett come in here - if he is the guy - and hire his own guys? In fact, Kitna - a Garrett guy - was not retained and is available. But if Garrett takes this job, it will be with some or many of his assistants already determined. That is flat out weird.
Or perhaps Garrett told them who he wanted and this hiring was agreed to days ago, but just not announced to avoid messing with his contract.
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In comment 14780460 Chris in Philly said:
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In comment 14780456 Go Terps said:
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without ownership or the front office interfering.
And you see evidence of the front office interfering where?
It's a fact that they have determined assistant coaches before. They did it for Coughlin and McAdoo, may have done it for Shurmur. One can have a justified concern without evidence.
sure, but youre telling me the giants forced graham on JJ? lmfao. evidence for THIS hire points to them letting him pick his staff..
No. Judge clearly got to make some of his other hires. But OC may not have been one of them, if Garrett was available to them. I see no other way to explain hiring QB coaches and other guys BEFORE the OC.
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In comment 14780456 Go Terps said:
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without ownership or the front office interfering.
And you see evidence of the front office interfering where?
It's a fact that they have determined assistant coaches before. They did it for Coughlin and McAdoo, may have done it for Shurmur. One can have a justified concern without evidence.
That’s far from a fact. In fact Mara flat out denied this, making the bob mcadoo joke about he didn’t know who ben was before he interviewed.
Mara could be lying, but what you are saying is not verifiable
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Don't be surprised if he doesn't leave the building.
Romo and Dax have had success under him. I think Jones could do a lot worse and obviously they have a good RB as well.
It is most important that the Giants regain their identity. Good defense, get to the QB, stop the run, run the ball. If you are playing in the Meadowlands you need a solid rushing attack. Can't just drop back 40-50 times. That means a good OL to block and keep the ground game going.
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In comment 14780473 Ten Ton Hammer said:
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In comment 14780460 Chris in Philly said:
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In comment 14780456 Go Terps said:
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without ownership or the front office interfering.
And you see evidence of the front office interfering where?
It's a fact that they have determined assistant coaches before. They did it for Coughlin and McAdoo, may have done it for Shurmur. One can have a justified concern without evidence.
It is not a little weird that they hired a QB coach BEFORE the OC. Shurmur was just hired by Denver and axed the QB coach to get his own guy in there. So, something is going on with the OC hire that seems a bit out of line. Otherwise, why not let Garrett come in here - if he is the guy - and hire his own guys? In fact, Kitna - a Garrett guy - was not retained and is available. But if Garrett takes this job, it will be with some or many of his assistants already determined. That is flat out weird.
Or perhaps Garrett told them who he wanted and this hiring was agreed to days ago, but just not announced to avoid messing with his contract.
How? There is no evidence they spoke to - or had the right to - Garrett previously. And the QB coach has a known relationship with Judge. This seems to me like a situation where the Giants are saying be our OC, but you are accepting our previous hires. Or where Judge said, I'll hire your preference for OC, but I want my guys at QB coach, etc. A compromise, so to speak.
And Callahan
Hopefully he brings his OL coach too
Well, that is the benefit of not having him as head coach. He is not making those in-game decisions. Garrett will call the plays, design the offense, but Judge will decide whether to go for it and will obviously have some involvement in guiding the offense.
When McAdoo was hired as OC, he was helpful for Manning. But Coughlin's presence kept McAdoo in check. Once HC, McAdoo went to 11 personnel on every play. Even if the HC is not calling plays, he is involved with the offense. That will help Garrett.
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What is his offensive philosophy? Also, didn't he have a knack for making some bone-headed in-game decisions?
Well, that is the benefit of not having him as head coach. He is not making those in-game decisions. Garrett will call the plays, design the offense, but Judge will decide whether to go for it and will obviously have some involvement in guiding the offense.
When McAdoo was hired as OC, he was helpful for Manning. But Coughlin's presence kept McAdoo in check. Once HC, McAdoo went to 11 personnel on every play. Even if the HC is not calling plays, he is involved with the offense. That will help Garrett.
Ah ok, thanks for clarifying that for me.
2) We desperately need a coach with prior HC experience. You can question how good he was at being an HC, but he does have extensive experience.
3) Mara loves him.
The hope is that he can convince Callahan to come on and be the OL coach under him. They have ties back to their Dallas days.
Count me as one that likes this move. Dak and DJ are not too different (I think DJ is a better passer). Garrett did great work with Dak and other QBs he's had. Lastly, Garrett's one and only year as the OC in Dallas, they had the 2nd best offense in the league.
Link - ( New Window )
you do realize that the FA period and the draft is still yet to come right? SO some time to improve that area
Is it literally only because Gruden can bring Callahan with him as OL coach? Seems like a stretch to me to want a guy for OC just for the OL coach he MIGHT bring along.
Please-- someone make the argument to me: Gruden > Garrett. I don't get it.
Leg, FYI, Callahan was Garrett’s OC for 3 years at Dallas too.
Everything Dallas does is a JJ move...
2) We desperately need a coach with prior HC experience. You can question how good he was at being an HC, but he does have extensive experience.
3) Mara loves him.
The hope is that he can convince Callahan to come on and be the OL coach under him. They have ties back to their Dallas days.
Count me as one that likes this move. Dak and DJ are not too different (I think DJ is a better passer). Garrett did great work with Dak and other QBs he's had. Lastly, Garrett's one and only year as the OC in Dallas, they had the 2nd best offense in the league.
I agree with this. If they wanted someone who was already available, they'd have signed them. I always believed there was a reason they had waited to hire an OC. I was hoping that reason was Joe Brady. It strongly appears now that it was Garrett.
I'd be very surprised if they don't wrap up a deal with him by later this afternoon. After getting beaten out by Carolina for Rhule, it would be shocking to see them allow a guy they want leave the building and give other teams a shot at him. And if Garrett didn't want the job, he would not be there interviewing for it.
Dak's career passer rating: 97.0
Romo's career comp. %: 65.3%
Dak's career comp. %: 65.8%
Just interesting to see that kind of consistency with the one common denominator being Garrett. Also both had better than a 2:1 TD:INT ratio and Dak's is in fact close to 3:1.
I have no doubt based on what we've seen from DJ that Garrett can get similar or better production out of him.
A commitment to run the ball A LOT
Not a very creative passing game
Ideally we'd have a passing game coordinator in addition to Garrett.
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When he remembers what our offensive line is like.
you do realize that the FA period and the draft is still yet to come right? SO some time to improve that area
Gosh, no, I had no idea that the FA period and the draft were still yet to come. Thank you so much for letting me know. I'll sleep much better now.
“How the hell do we stop Whitten” ?
There are a lot of reasons that he would make sense as an OC and as a help to Judge, not the least of which I"m sure the organization would like someone on his staff that has had head coaching experience that Judge can lean on.
Of course, from the standpoint at being at Dallas, it's not the worst thing for the Giants to have their OC be in position closely know their entire division, including a Dallas team they haven't beaten forever.
There are a lot of reasons that he would make sense as an OC and as a help to Judge, not the least of which I"m sure the organization would like someone on his staff that has had head coaching experience that Judge can lean on.
Of course, from the standpoint at being at Dallas, it's not the worst thing for the Giants to have their OC be in position closely know their entire division, including a Dallas team they haven't beaten forever.
Mara said it’s hands off. I believe him
Count me in as excited!
Zeke to Saquon Barkley
Witten to Evan Engram
Can help us in the draft room identifying our future all pro Offensive Lineman (Tyron, Fredricks, Martin)
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In comment 14780465 Klaatu said:
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When he remembers what our offensive line is like.
you do realize that the FA period and the draft is still yet to come right? SO some time to improve that area
Gosh, no, I had no idea that the FA period and the draft were still yet to come. Thank you so much for letting me know. I'll sleep much better now.
Oh Good. You had me worried there for a moment the way you had Garrett running from the room affright with our OLine as if it would be the same next year.
He was the Dallas OC 2007-2010, and may have also called plays in 2011.
Callahan became OC in 2012
He was the Dallas OC 2007-2010, and may have also called plays in 2011.
Callahan became OC in 2012.
I think that Garrett is:
a) undecided whether he wants to remain an NFL coach
b) thinking he might learn a lot from Judge, if Judge embraces all things Belichickian & Sabanly
c) also exploring his media options during the trip
d) figuring if he wants to be a head coach again, this job would be the right stepping stone: good QB, high visibility, and we can only get better
Well, I'll take FIRST in total yards per game and 6th in points per game any day.
Not sure what excites you for an offense.
Isn't that the way it goes here? Am I getting warm?
2012
There are a lot of reasons that he would make sense as an OC and as a help to Judge, not the least of which I"m sure the organization would like someone on his staff that has had head coaching experience that Judge can lean on.
Of course, from the standpoint at being at Dallas, it's not the worst thing for the Giants to have their OC be in position closely know their entire division, including a Dallas team they haven't beaten forever.
I think Garrett would be a good choice at OC. I also think this is something ownership wanted badly. As far as Mara saying it's hands off, I don't believe a word he says, so that means nothing to me.
This hiring is nothing like the others Judge has made. But Judge has his QB coach, which gives him eyes and ears in the room from a guy he knows and trusts. And maybe there is some sort of connection between Garrett and Judge, but the connection appears much stronger between the Giants and Garrett.
Again, not saying it is a bad hiring. Garrett directed pretty good offenses in Dallas, and I don't think Dak is that good a QB. He's a strong proponent of building OLs, so that should fit with the Gettleman philosophy too. They invested a lot of capital in building the Dallas OL, and I think Garrett was a main reason why they did that.
Isn't that the way it goes here? Am I getting warm?
There is no rule that says you cant have 2 Assistant HC's, its not like the title means anything.... Assistant HC, OC,DC, position coaches, they're all considered assistant coaches.
If they like him, and thats the sticking point, name him OC & Assistant HC too.
A commitment to run the ball A LOT
Not a very creative passing game
Ideally we'd have a passing game coordinator in addition to Garrett.
Fair questions to raise, but IMO just bc the Cowboys passing game hasn’t been very creative with Dak at QB doesn’t mean Garrett couldn’t do more with Jones
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.
There is no rule that says you cant have 2 Assistant HC's, its not like the title means anything.... Assistant HC, OC,DC, position coaches, they're all considered assistant coaches.
If they like him, and thats the sticking point, name him OC & Assistant HC too.
Associate HC. Colleges play the title game all the time with both Assistant HC and Associate HC.
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In comment 14780529 LTIsTheGreatest said:
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In comment 14780465 Klaatu said:
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When he remembers what our offensive line is like.
you do realize that the FA period and the draft is still yet to come right? SO some time to improve that area
Gosh, no, I had no idea that the FA period and the draft were still yet to come. Thank you so much for letting me know. I'll sleep much better now.
Oh Good. You had me worried there for a moment the way you had Garrett running from the room affright with our OLine as if it would be the same next year.
It probably won't be much better this year than it was last year. It took Dallas about four years to build what is arguably the best O-Line in the league. Three 1st Round picks (four, if you figure Collins would have been one), plus a good bit of luck with a UDFA Guard whose name escapes me right now.
Garrett, or whomever gets the OC job, is going to have his work cut out for him designing an efficient and productive offense with our albatross of a line hanging around his neck. Maybe they can get some help in free agency (although it's slim pickings this year), and maybe they can get some help in the draft (although we're already short one premium pick). Maybe even Big George rises Phoenix-like from the ashes and surprises the hell out of everybody. We'll see.
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In comment 14780541 Klaatu said:
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In comment 14780529 LTIsTheGreatest said:
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In comment 14780465 Klaatu said:
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When he remembers what our offensive line is like.
you do realize that the FA period and the draft is still yet to come right? SO some time to improve that area
Gosh, no, I had no idea that the FA period and the draft were still yet to come. Thank you so much for letting me know. I'll sleep much better now.
Oh Good. You had me worried there for a moment the way you had Garrett running from the room affright with our OLine as if it would be the same next year.
It probably won't be much better this year than it was last year. It took Dallas about four years to build what is arguably the best O-Line in the league. Three 1st Round picks (four, if you figure Collins would have been one), plus a good bit of luck with a UDFA Guard whose name escapes me right now.
Garrett, or whomever gets the OC job, is going to have his work cut out for him designing an efficient and productive offense with our albatross of a line hanging around his neck. Maybe they can get some help in free agency (although it's slim pickings this year), and maybe they can get some help in the draft (although we're already short one premium pick). Maybe even Big George rises Phoenix-like from the ashes and surprises the hell out of everybody. We'll see.
I think coaching is the biggest problem with the OL
Jerry Jones will milk it to the last cent,,, wouldnt be surprised if its a MNF game.
Garrett is gravy on top of Giants & Cowboys having new HCs
Garrett has been through the crucible in Dallas. He could really help JJ if things get tough at times.
He may be able to bring Callahan in and Callahan might not be a good fit for a 30-year-old hotshot?
Adding Garrett and Callahan would give a nice mix of experience.
Bring Pepper or Pierce onboard to coach LBs for the Giants "heritage".
FWIW Garrett's main issue in Dallas was player discipline possibly because he was undermined by Jerry. That seems like a strength of Judge.
The QB coach may be ready to take over at OC if Garrett leaves in two years.
e
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In comment 14780541 Klaatu said:
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In comment 14780529 LTIsTheGreatest said:
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In comment 14780465 Klaatu said:
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When he remembers what our offensive line is like.
you do realize that the FA period and the draft is still yet to come right? SO some time to improve that area
Gosh, no, I had no idea that the FA period and the draft were still yet to come. Thank you so much for letting me know. I'll sleep much better now.
Oh Good. You had me worried there for a moment the way you had Garrett running from the room affright with our OLine as if it would be the same next year.
It probably won't be much better this year than it was last year. It took Dallas about four years to build what is arguably the best O-Line in the league. Three 1st Round picks (four, if you figure Collins would have been one), plus a good bit of luck with a UDFA Guard whose name escapes me right now.
Garrett, or whomever gets the OC job, is going to have his work cut out for him designing an efficient and productive offense with our albatross of a line hanging around his neck. Maybe they can get some help in free agency (although it's slim pickings this year), and maybe they can get some help in the draft (although we're already short one premium pick). Maybe even Big George rises Phoenix-like from the ashes and surprises the hell out of everybody. We'll see.
No one said it will be easy. Zeitler just two years ago was great. Hernandez was considered a rising star. And Solder was good in the second half of 2018. Now he's a turnstile. No, we don't have the Dallas OL. But it shouldn't be this bad.
Part of the problem is play Halapio. I said this before the season last year; I don't care if he's an average blocker (he isn't), he is the worst center in the NFL because he can't call out simple blocking assignments. That was evident before he got hurt two years ago, and was painfully obvious last year. It is even more important now that we no longer have Manning but a young QB who needs help with that stuff. We can't stop a simple stunt up front. It's garbage. And it really, really hurt both Hernandez and Zeitler last year.
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In comment 14780438 Anakim said:
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.
There is no rule that says you cant have 2 Assistant HC's, its not like the title means anything.... Assistant HC, OC,DC, position coaches, they're all considered assistant coaches.
If they like him, and thats the sticking point, name him OC & Assistant HC too.
Associate HC. Colleges play the title game all the time with both Assistant HC and Associate HC.
There you go... problem solved ;)
It probably won't be much better this year than it was last year. It took Dallas about four years to build what is arguably the best O-Line in the league. Three 1st Round picks (four, if you figure Collins would have been one), plus a good bit of luck with a UDFA Guard whose name escapes me right now.
Garrett, or whomever gets the OC job, is going to have his work cut out for him designing an efficient and productive offense with our albatross of a line hanging around his neck. Maybe they can get some help in free agency (although it's slim pickings this year), and maybe they can get some help in the draft (although we're already short one premium pick). Maybe even Big George rises Phoenix-like from the ashes and surprises the hell out of everybody. We'll see.
I think coaching is the biggest problem with the OL
Even the best coaches need to have some talent to work with. Acquiring that talent is the GM's job, and in that regard Mr. "Don't sleep on Pio" has been a miserable failure.
I don’t know who the OC was 2015-2018. Did Garrett do this? Someone else?
I know that young kid took over in 2019.
Coach Jim Garrett - ( New Window )
I don’t know who the OC was 2015-2018. Did Garrett do this? Someone else?
I know that young kid took over in 2019.
Scott Linehan
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Was Dallas OC from 2012-2014
I don’t know who the OC was 2015-2018. Did Garrett do this? Someone else?
I know that young kid took over in 2019.
Scott Linehan
Oh yes, I forgot him....thanks Matt....you are the man!
What are his other options? Does he take a year off? this seems like too good of a fit for it to not work out
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In comment 14780456 Go Terps said:
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without ownership or the front office interfering.
And you see evidence of the front office interfering where?
Exactly. terps, you have NO IDEA if front office is interferring or not. its pretty simple.
1. front office says, you should check him out JJ, see what you think.
2. he worked for saban, so maybe there is a req coming from NS.
3. maybe JJ just knows he needs a good offensive mind in the building and he feels they could click.
we have ZERO knowledge that the front office is forcing this. they have let him hire whoever he wants up to this point
Terps gotta Terps.
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In comment 14780460 Chris in Philly said:
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In comment 14780456 Go Terps said:
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without ownership or the front office interfering.
And you see evidence of the front office interfering where?
Exactly. terps, you have NO IDEA if front office is interferring or not. its pretty simple.
1. front office says, you should check him out JJ, see what you think.
2. he worked for saban, so maybe there is a req coming from NS.
3. maybe JJ just knows he needs a good offensive mind in the building and he feels they could click.
we have ZERO knowledge that the front office is forcing this. they have let him hire whoever he wants up to this point
Terps gotta Terps.
I am not going to blame Terps for thinking this. He may be overly negative, but this reeks of ownership involvement. And I am saying this as someone in full support of getting Garrett in here as OC.
What are his other options? Does he take a year off? this seems like too good of a fit for it to not work out
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and Garrett leaves the building today without being hired
What are his other options? Does he take a year off? this seems like too good of a fit for it to not work out
[/quote]
He's got millions of Jerrah's dollars, no kids and his wife has a Harvard Law degree … If he wants to stay in football this is probably his best option … but me thinks he'll be pretty comfortable with whatever happens.
Someone needs to bring the coffee and donuts
Isn't that the way it goes here? Am I getting warm?
No, it stinks either way. Not a fan of Garrett at all.
Look at you: member of the honor roll, assistant to the assistant manager of the movie theater. I'm tellin' ya, Rat, if this girl can't smell your qualifications, then who needs her, right?
Come on, how does it reek of ownership involvement?
Say what you will about Garrett, but he has a proven track record as an offensive mind, knows the NFC East, and has coached in a high-pressure market before. There are lots of reasons for Judge to take a look.
Moreover, the Giants don't have a track record of telling coaches who to hire on staff. Yes, there were rumors that they might have pressured Coughlin to move on from some of his assistants back in 2006, but it's not like they then handed him a list of names to run through. And if they were in the business of meddling, they probably would have made Shurmur ditch Bettcher, a guy whose coaching acumen nobody seemed to like but who Shurmur chose to hitch his wagon to nonetheless.
The folks who think that this is Mara forcing a coach on Judge are taking old conspiracy theories and presenting them as facts, as usual. There's plenty of evidence to suggest that Judge might want to give Garrett a look of his own accord.
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we can keep Shula as ASSISTANT TO THE ASSISTANT MANAGER.
Look at you: member of the honor roll, assistant to the assistant manager of the movie theater. I'm tellin' ya, Rat, if this girl can't smell your qualifications, then who needs her, right?
I want YOU to want ME...
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I am not going to blame Terps for thinking this. He may be overly negative, but this reeks of ownership involvement. And I am saying this as someone in full support of getting Garrett in here as OC.
Come on, how does it reek of ownership involvement?
Say what you will about Garrett, but he has a proven track record as an offensive mind, knows the NFC East, and has coached in a high-pressure market before. There are lots of reasons for Judge to take a look.
Moreover, the Giants don't have a track record of telling coaches who to hire on staff. Yes, there were rumors that they might have pressured Coughlin to move on from some of his assistants back in 2006, but it's not like they then handed him a list of names to run through. And if they were in the business of meddling, they probably would have made Shurmur ditch Bettcher, a guy whose coaching acumen nobody seemed to like but who Shurmur chose to hitch his wagon to nonetheless.
The folks who think that this is Mara forcing a coach on Judge are taking old conspiracy theories and presenting them as facts, as usual. There's plenty of evidence to suggest that Judge might want to give Garrett a look of his own accord.
The folks who think that this is Mara forcing a coach on Judge are taking old conspiracy theories and presenting them as facts, as usual. There's plenty of evidence to suggest that Judge might want to give Garrett a look of his own accord.
Couldn’t agree more.
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In comment 14780656 morrison40 said:
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we can keep Shula as ASSISTANT TO THE ASSISTANT MANAGER.
Look at you: member of the honor roll, assistant to the assistant manager of the movie theater. I'm tellin' ya, Rat, if this girl can't smell your qualifications, then who needs her, right?
I want YOU to want ME...
The Dream Police! DA DA DA DA!
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In comment 14780680 Britt in VA said:
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In comment 14780656 morrison40 said:
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we can keep Shula as ASSISTANT TO THE ASSISTANT MANAGER.
Look at you: member of the honor roll, assistant to the assistant manager of the movie theater. I'm tellin' ya, Rat, if this girl can't smell your qualifications, then who needs her, right?
I want YOU to want ME...
The Dream Police! DA DA DA DA!
The lady will have the linguine with white clam sauce, and a coke with no ice.
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In comment 14780685 Chris in Philly said:
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In comment 14780680 Britt in VA said:
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In comment 14780656 morrison40 said:
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we can keep Shula as ASSISTANT TO THE ASSISTANT MANAGER.
Look at you: member of the honor roll, assistant to the assistant manager of the movie theater. I'm tellin' ya, Rat, if this girl can't smell your qualifications, then who needs her, right?
I want YOU to want ME...
The Dream Police! DA DA DA DA!
The lady will have the linguine with white clam sauce, and a coke with no ice.
Last summer you fell in love with that girl at the Fotomat, you bought forty dollars worth of film and you never even talked to her. You don't even own a camera.
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In comment 14780468 BleedBlue said:
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In comment 14780460 Chris in Philly said:
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In comment 14780456 Go Terps said:
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without ownership or the front office interfering.
And you see evidence of the front office interfering where?
Exactly. terps, you have NO IDEA if front office is interferring or not. its pretty simple.
1. front office says, you should check him out JJ, see what you think.
2. he worked for saban, so maybe there is a req coming from NS.
3. maybe JJ just knows he needs a good offensive mind in the building and he feels they could click.
we have ZERO knowledge that the front office is forcing this. they have let him hire whoever he wants up to this point
Terps gotta Terps.
I am not going to blame Terps for thinking this. He may be overly negative, but this reeks of ownership involvement. And I am saying this as someone in full support of getting Garrett in here as OC.
Must suck to go through life wearing a tin foil hat.
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In comment 14780685 Chris in Philly said:
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In comment 14780680 Britt in VA said:
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In comment 14780656 morrison40 said:
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we can keep Shula as ASSISTANT TO THE ASSISTANT MANAGER.
Look at you: member of the honor roll, assistant to the assistant manager of the movie theater. I'm tellin' ya, Rat, if this girl can't smell your qualifications, then who needs her, right?
I want YOU to want ME...
The Dream Police! DA DA DA DA!
The lady will have the linguine with white clam sauce, and a coke with no ice.
All right, now pay attention. First of all, Rat, you never let on how much you like a girl. 'Oh, Debbie. Hi.' Two, you always call the shots. 'Kiss me. You won't regret it.' Now three, act like wherever you are, that's the place to be. 'Isn't this great?' Four, when ordering food, you find out what she wants, then order for the both of ya. It's a classy move. 'Now, the lady will have the linguini and white clam sauce, and a Coke with no ice.' And five, now this is the most important, Rat. When it comes down to making out, whenever possible, put on side one of Led Zeppelin IV.
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we can keep Shula as ASSISTANT TO THE ASSISTANT MANAGER.
Look at you: member of the honor roll, assistant to the assistant manager of the movie theater. I'm tellin' ya, Rat, if this girl can't smell your qualifications, then who needs her, right?
This is Awesome!
- cue' Led Zeppelin's, Kashmir
The folks who think that this is Mara forcing a coach on Judge are taking old conspiracy theories and presenting them as facts, as usual. There's plenty of evidence to suggest that Judge might want to give Garrett a look of his own accord.
Garrett and Judge both worked under Saban so there's that.
First he's gonna shit.. then he is gonna kills us!
Garrett must have studied Jones and believe that he can be a very good QB
I can fix it.
Garrett must have studied Jones and believe that he can be a very good QB
Accept
He didn't come here to waste anyones time.
Garrett must have studied Jones and believe that he can be a very good QB
It's amazing the difference in opinion between the media and the league. The media mocked the Jones selection and look for every opportunity to say I told you. While, from people in the league, there has been nothing but praise for Jones.
I find this exciting as Garrett has coached two pretty good QBs
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If Garrett were to except the OC position this would be a major endorsement of Daniel Jones
Garrett must have studied Jones and believe that he can be a very good QB
Accept
Or it would just be guy who wants to stay in coaching taking the job that was available to him. No idea if he's got other offers out there. If not, his accepting may say nothing about his feelings on Jones.
He'll know the players of Dallas inside and out, and should help against Philly. He's been much more successful against them than us.
There has to be some type of "meet in the middle" on this.
Garrett is a very good NFL offensive coordinator, is good with QBs, and has HC experience that is invaluable, although most just like to make fun of him because he couldn't win a Super Bowl.
Isn't that the way it goes here? Am I getting warm?
I think you nailed it.
Dominant offenses? What dominant offenses? And he was an OC for, what, two whole years?
During that time, the Cowboys had a 13 win season, an 11 win season and a 9 win season. They were the #2 offense in 2007, #7 in 2010 and 18th and 14th the other two seasons. Perhaps dominant isn't the right word for 3/4th of the time, but it isn't like he was terrible.
I know giving him credit is like pulling fucking teeth for some of you though.
Use Barkley like Elliott and I'm good
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Jason Garrett as our OC, who has been the coordinator for dominant offenses in the NFL for multiple seasons.
Dominant offenses? What dominant offenses? And he was an OC for, what, two whole years?
Four actually.
Or they are working out contract details, just saying.
During that time, the Cowboys had a 13 win season, an 11 win season and a 9 win season. They were the #2 offense in 2007, #7 in 2010 and 18th and 14th the other two seasons. Perhaps dominant isn't the right word for 3/4th of the time, but it isn't like he was terrible.
I know giving him credit is like pulling fucking teeth for some of you though.
Not for me, though. If Judge wants him and they get along sign him up. He has obvious and useful virtues.
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interviewing and we haven't heard anything so my guess is they let him leave the building. It took them like 5 seconds to hire Grahm,
Or they are working out contract details, just saying.
Graham & Judge had worked together for a number of years,made the hiring quicker & easier. I assume JJ & Garrett & in the getting to know you stage!
During that time, the Cowboys had a 13 win season, an 11 win season and a 9 win season. They were the #2 offense in 2007, #7 in 2010 and 18th and 14th the other two seasons. Perhaps dominant isn't the right word for 3/4th of the time, but it isn't like he was terrible.
I know giving him credit is like pulling fucking teeth for some of you though.
Thinking of that 07 team brought back the glorious playoff memory of Eli leading us to a TD in about 47 sec right before the half!
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be a great hire unless the board finds out Mara or Gettleman had anything to do with it - then it will be a terrible hire!!
Isn't that the way it goes here? Am I getting warm? +!
I think you nailed it.
During that time, the Cowboys had a 13 win season, an 11 win season and a 9 win season. They were the #2 offense in 2007, #7 in 2010 and 18th and 14th the other two seasons. Perhaps dominant isn't the right word for 3/4th of the time, but it isn't like he was terrible.
And to be fair to Garrett, he had less than a full deck in 2008: Terrell Owens having his usual "get me out of here" meltdowns, Romo getting injured, and being forced to play Brad Johnson and Brooks Bollinger at QB.
I think some of you need to take a deep fucking breath though - a few posters suggest that it might be problematic if Garrett was forced on Judge, and you get your panties in a twist. It's as if you haven't seen the disjointed mess the Giants have been for most of the last decade.
Given the other coaching hires, I don't think Garrett is Gettleman or Mara's doing, but it's fair to say that if they were involved or pushed the matter in any way it raises some concern. Of course the guy hasn't even been hired yet, so it's all hypothetical to this point.
DAL comes prepared, executes and kicks our teeth in. We look sloppy.
If we have a chance to grab some of that coaching magic that got DAL so much more prepared every year against us each summer than we could manage to be against them, I'm all for it.
Results:
Sept. 2019
DAL 35
NYG 17
Sept. 2018
DAL 20
NYG 13
Sept. 2017
DAL 19
NYG 3
Sept. 2016
DAL 19
NYG 20
Sept. 2015
DAL 27
NYG 26
Oct. 2014
DAL 31
NYG 21
Sept. 2013
DAL 36
NYG 31
Sept. 2012
DAL 24
NYG 17
Won't go any further back because we didn't play in 2012 until so late in the season and my point was that his teams were prepared to kick our butts early on every single year.
A lot of that is on the coaching - how prepared you are to play at the beginning of the season.
Because of Shurmur and McAdoo?? That means if they had any input we should be concerned? Some of you look for any way possible to inject incompetence to the organization.
No matter who is there it will be a different offense.
Please Lord, I'd sign up for Garrett as OC and Callahan as OL coach. I think that would be a good combo.
This
Is of one concern..leaving for hc job in near future
and
2) pushing players in the chest coming off the field after they make a big play
Nice remark. Hope it's so. Regret the absence of closure here on the other possible sandbox occupant.
During that time, the Cowboys had a 13 win season, an 11 win season and a 9 win season. They were the #2 offense in 2007, #7 in 2010 and 18th and 14th the other two seasons. Perhaps dominant isn't the right word for 3/4th of the time, but it isn't like he was terrible.
I know giving him credit is like pulling fucking teeth for some of you though.
I read from I think Ralph V (I think it was him...somebody on Twitter) that Garrett’s offenses were top 5 in two of his three years as coordinator. You only show him top 5 one of the three years. I trust your numbers more. So I guess I can’t use this as evidence to show what an awesome OC he was in Dallas...but he was pretty good.
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Given the other coaching hires, I don't think Garrett is Gettleman or Mara's doing, but it's fair to say that if they were involved or pushed the matter in any way it raises some concern.
Because of Shurmur and McAdoo?? That means if they had any input we should be concerned? Some of you look for any way possible to inject incompetence to the organization.
First off - *if* Judge had less than 100% say in this matter, it should be concerning. It raises a number of problems, the first and foremost being trust and ultimately accountability.
Second - there's no need to inject any incompetence to this organization. They've been one of the worst teams in the league the past three years running. This year we saw an offense falling apart at the seams, and a HC refuse to turn over playcalling to an OC who was his third choice at best and in all likelihood could have been forced upon him by the FO.
You earn trust - if the Giants have lost it with a lot of their fans, there's a damn good reason.
I think some of you need to take a deep fucking breath though - a few posters suggest that it might be problematic if Garrett was forced on Judge, and you get your panties in a twist. It's as if you haven't seen the disjointed mess the Giants have been for most of the last decade.
Given the other coaching hires, I don't think Garrett is Gettleman or Mara's doing, but it's fair to say that if they were involved or pushed the matter in any way it raises some concern. Of course the guy hasn't even been hired yet, so it's all hypothetical to this point.
Um, no. It’s the certain segment of the fan base here that assumes Garrett was forced on Judge and then use that assumption to bash the organization to fit their hot takes. It must be exhausting to manufacture outrage over assumptions and suppositions, but hey to each their own...
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he knows the division extremely well, and he'd be an established veteran coaching presence that the team could use.
I think some of you need to take a deep fucking breath though - a few posters suggest that it might be problematic if Garrett was forced on Judge, and you get your panties in a twist. It's as if you haven't seen the disjointed mess the Giants have been for most of the last decade.
Given the other coaching hires, I don't think Garrett is Gettleman or Mara's doing, but it's fair to say that if they were involved or pushed the matter in any way it raises some concern. Of course the guy hasn't even been hired yet, so it's all hypothetical to this point.
Um, no. It’s the certain segment of the fan base here that assumes Garrett was forced on Judge and then use that assumption to bash the organization to fit their hot takes. It must be exhausting to manufacture outrage over assumptions and suppositions, but hey to each their own...
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Given the other coaching hires, I don't think Garrett is Gettleman or Mara's doing, but it's fair to say that if they were involved or pushed the matter in any way it raises some concern.
Because of Shurmur and McAdoo?? That means if they had any input we should be concerned? Some of you look for any way possible to inject incompetence to the organization.
First off - *if* Judge had less than 100% say in this matter, it should be concerning. It raises a number of problems, the first and foremost being trust and ultimately accountability.
Second - there's no need to inject any incompetence to this organization. They've been one of the worst teams in the league the past three years running. This year we saw an offense falling apart at the seams, and a HC refuse to turn over playcalling to an OC who was his third choice at best and in all likelihood could have been forced upon him by the FO.
You earn trust - if the Giants have lost it with a lot of their fans, there's a damn good reason.
FMIC - you just argue pro-Giants all day long. But people have every right to doubt their moves when they have fired two coaches in four years and are 12-36 in the last three seasons. When the answer to the question of "what team has the worst record in the NFL over the past three seasons" is the Giants, Giants' ownership does not get my vote of confidence. I have my right to that opinion too.
If they did fire that many folks in pursuit of better and search pretty widely to fix that...does that earn a respite to see what happens of does the same conclusion persist absent confirmation it may no longer apply?
Serious question: Why put so much emotional energy behind a group you have contempt for???
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In comment 14780913 jcn56 said:
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he knows the division extremely well, and he'd be an established veteran coaching presence that the team could use.
I think some of you need to take a deep fucking breath though - a few posters suggest that it might be problematic if Garrett was forced on Judge, and you get your panties in a twist. It's as if you haven't seen the disjointed mess the Giants have been for most of the last decade.
Given the other coaching hires, I don't think Garrett is Gettleman or Mara's doing, but it's fair to say that if they were involved or pushed the matter in any way it raises some concern. Of course the guy hasn't even been hired yet, so it's all hypothetical to this point.
Um, no. It’s the certain segment of the fan base here that assumes Garrett was forced on Judge and then use that assumption to bash the organization to fit their hot takes. It must be exhausting to manufacture outrage over assumptions and suppositions, but hey to each their own...
You're not allowed to rent videos here anymore!
YEEEAAAHHHHH!!!
I apologize for overstepping. I appreciate you bringing me back to my center...
Sure, gripe about how bad the team has been. They've messed up both coaching and GM hirings and firings. They covered up domestic abuse on the part of their kicker and have made some serious gaffes.
But there's no reason to make up things to complain about, especially when there are legitimate reasons to drag management over the coals. There's no evidence at all that Mara or anybody else has forced assistants on a coach. All anybody has to support that claim is vague BBI rumor that they've decided to accept as fact with no corroboration.
Every beat writer who has been asked publicly has stated that Judge has control of the staff, including the potential hiring of Garrett. If you want to worry that Judge is the wrong guy for the job, that's a legit thing to worry about--the Giants haven't picked very good head coaches, and Judge is very unproven. But it's obnoxious to have people making up stuff and/or accepting conjecture as facts because it allows them to paint the team in an even more negative light.
There are plenty of gripes to have about this team. No need to make up more.
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FMIC - you just argue pro-Giants all day long. But people have every right to doubt their moves when they have fired two coaches in four years and are 12-36 in the last three seasons. When the answer to the question of "what team has the worst record in the NFL over the past three seasons" is the Giants, Giants' ownership does not get my vote of confidence. I have my right to that opinion too.
Sure, gripe about how bad the team has been. They've messed up both coaching and GM hirings and firings. They covered up domestic abuse on the part of their kicker and have made some serious gaffes.
But there's no reason to make up things to complain about, especially when there are legitimate reasons to drag management over the coals. There's no evidence at all that Mara or anybody else has forced assistants on a coach. All anybody has to support that claim is vague BBI rumor that they've decided to accept as fact with no corroboration.
Every beat writer who has been asked publicly has stated that Judge has control of the staff, including the potential hiring of Garrett. If you want to worry that Judge is the wrong guy for the job, that's a legit thing to worry about--the Giants haven't picked very good head coaches, and Judge is very unproven. But it's obnoxious to have people making up stuff and/or accepting conjecture as facts because it allows them to paint the team in an even more negative light.
There are plenty of gripes to have about this team. No need to make up more.
I'm not making up a gripe. I'd actually be fine with Garrett as OC. I was simply saying that the Giants don't deserve any one's trust until they earn it.
If they continue to make mistakes we can only do one of two things:
1) Admit they tried and did go out of their way to do well but we don't want to wait to see if they get better any longer. Need to tie our rooting instincts to a winner cycle and not a loser cycle. Sorry Giants, cant wait any longer, we have to move on to rooting for another team or sport or activity
2) Wait until the second half of next year to see if there is progress
What we shouldn't do is make up stuff to be mad about as if that's about them and not really about us
If you can't understand why people would be worried about that, not sure there's any point in continuing the discussion, carry on your celebration. The next time you can really grade the Giants on progress is 8 months away, and until then all there will be is a back and forth exchange of opinions. Many of them will be negative, as you'd expect from a team that has managed 12 wins cumulatively over the combined last 3 seasons.
If you can't understand why people would be worried about that, not sure there's any point in continuing the discussion, carry on your celebration. The next time you can really grade the Giants on progress is 8 months away, and until then all there will be is a back and forth exchange of opinions. Many of them will be negative, as you'd expect from a team that has managed 12 wins cumulatively over the combined last 3 seasons.
Geez ... it’s January of a new year ... the sun is shining, the air is clean and we’re still undefeated in 2020 ... lighten up
If you can't understand why people would be worried about that, not sure there's any point in continuing the discussion, carry on your celebration. The next time you can really grade the Giants on progress is 8 months away, and until then all there will be is a back and forth exchange of opinions. Many of them will be negative, as you'd expect from a team that has managed 12 wins cumulatively over the combined last 3 seasons.
Funny lead in and well put...
If you can't understand why people would be worried about that, not sure there's any point in continuing the discussion, carry on your celebration. The next time you can really grade the Giants on progress is 8 months away, and until then all there will be is a back and forth exchange of opinions. Many of them will be negative, as you'd expect from a team that has managed 12 wins cumulatively over the combined last 3 seasons.
Well there are two ways you can look at this. You can either be optimistic when presented with change or you can continue to wallow in misery. I see you've made your choice. Have fun with that.
Link - ( New Window )
If you can't understand why people would be worried about that, not sure there's any point in continuing the discussion, carry on your celebration. .........
You are right, many of us don't understand this Giants pushing Judge to hire certain coaches mantra. If they were pushing him, he'd be done by know and wouldn't be interviewing...
But carry on, carrying on.
I don't argue pro-Giants. I argue against the miserable fucks who want to pin all the past woes on the current management and assume things will stay that way.
I argue against people who regale the board about "The Giants Way" or who say for months we are destined to have Jason Garrett as Head Coach because that's what will happen - and even when we lose a candidate that the Media speculates we wanted, they go apeshit about Gettleman not being able to work with anyone and that Garrett is the guy.
I argue against people who talk about mandates and meddling. That if management had anything to do with hires that they are doomed to suck.
I'll basically stick to what I said before because it is most definitely a viewpoint that some posters do take, as fucked up as it may be:
And twice on Mondays....
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In comment 14780913 jcn56 said:
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he knows the division extremely well, and he'd be an established veteran coaching presence that the team could use.
I think some of you need to take a deep fucking breath though - a few posters suggest that it might be problematic if Garrett was forced on Judge, and you get your panties in a twist. It's as if you haven't seen the disjointed mess the Giants have been for most of the last decade.
Given the other coaching hires, I don't think Garrett is Gettleman or Mara's doing, but it's fair to say that if they were involved or pushed the matter in any way it raises some concern. Of course the guy hasn't even been hired yet, so it's all hypothetical to this point.
Um, no. It’s the certain segment of the fan base here that assumes Garrett was forced on Judge and then use that assumption to bash the organization to fit their hot takes. It must be exhausting to manufacture outrage over assumptions and suppositions, but hey to each their own...
You're not allowed to rent videos here anymore!
Out of sight! You're right. No more videos.
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to be cheery about the past few years, but the vast majority weren't even complaining about the hire - just worried that the Giants might be pushing Judge to make a hire he's not 100% onboard with.
If you can't understand why people would be worried about that, not sure there's any point in continuing the discussion, carry on your celebration. The next time you can really grade the Giants on progress is 8 months away, and until then all there will be is a back and forth exchange of opinions. Many of them will be negative, as you'd expect from a team that has managed 12 wins cumulatively over the combined last 3 seasons.
Well there are two ways you can look at this. You can either be optimistic when presented with change or you can continue to wallow in misery. I see you've made your choice. Have fun with that.
So opting against baseless optimism is wallowing in misery?
The Giants are the second worst team in the NFL since Gettleman took over. That's not opinion, it's a fact. Is observing that reality wallowing in misery? Is skepticism over this regime unjustified? If so, how many miserable seasons do we have to endure before it's ok to be critical? Tell us when it's ok.
There's a group of people here that would watch a plane fly into a mountain and tell themselves everyone on board is fine because anything else is wallowing in misery. And they expect everyone else to also delude themselves.
Just tell us when it's ok to actually ask why the Giants suck. Because some of us are actually tired of it.
If they continue to make mistakes we can only do one of two things:
1) Admit they tried and did go out of their way to do well but we don't want to wait to see if they get better any longer. Need to tie our rooting instincts to a winner cycle and not a loser cycle. Sorry Giants, cant wait any longer, we have to move on to rooting for another team or sport or activity
2) Wait until the second half of next year to see if there is progress
What we shouldn't do is make up stuff to be mad about as if that's about them and not really about us
Yes, the Giants performance over most of the past decade and the decisions that got them there is really about us...
Jimmy Googs : 9:38 pm : link : reply
You argue pro-Giants basically every day of the week.
And twice on Mondays....
Then show me where I'm calling our recent run great. Show me where I'm calling Gettleman a great GM. Show me where I'm calling Eli a top QB.
Being pro-Giants would indicate that I find them doing little to no wrong. They've done a lot wrong. What I don't do is spend all my time lamenting mistakes as if each negative post has restorative powers. What I don't do is assume that because we've made some moves that haven't worked that all moves suck. What I don't do is ignore that the team between 2012 to now has had a ton of issues and forge forward acting as if the current GM is the most incompetent man to walk this Earth.
If I was so Pro-Giants, I'd be championing the team instead of pointing out inaccuracies, inconsistencies and the fucked up logic used by many who spend each and every day ranting like fucking lunatics.
Blinded by the losses that they don't even have the wherewithall to step back and see certain things.
Maybe it is just me, but if I spent the past several years unearthing each and every thing I could think of to put the Giants down as old, stodgy, and too out of touch to think boldly. If I could tell the board exactly what the Giants ownership thoughts were on every move without ever being in the building or knowing key facts and then see the turnover in the past several years where A GM and his Right-Hand man are fired, where two whole coaching staffs are canned, followed by making a really bold decision on a new HC who seems to be hiring certain qualities instead of retread names I'd probably shut the fuck up for awhile.
But instead it is just more of the same with new narratives being created
I don't know what you do on Mondays, but if it is anything like today, it is assuming what others are posting and usually being dead fucking wrong about it.
How many DCs did they interview before hiring Graham?
(And Ironically, BC took his team to a SB, which JG has never done.)
Might be too much ego in one room.
Shula May be the backup plan. I could be okay with either with a HC like Judge.
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I assume they're going to interview Gruden, Caldwell, etc. before making the choice. At least I hope so.
How many DCs did they interview before hiring Graham?
At least Graham and Glenn, according to reports. I would assume Bettcher as well if Judge is doing due diligence on existing staff.
(And Ironically, BC took his team to a SB, which JG has never done.)
Might be too much ego in one room.
They worked well together in Dallas it seems though.
Well about 6 bad years out of 7 will make it rough. But, the 1st year should be a gimme...it is progress that counts. They will start out poorly because the CBA only allows so much practice(well new coaches get a few extra). NFL is too complex to just step right in and succeed. I expect not only new coaches but a ton of new players....patience is a virtue and patience around Giantsville is wearing thin.
Kinda the reason I'm on BBI.
You, are a dick. Kinda the reason so many people are tired of your act.
But I'm sure you're a fine person.
By making Graham Assistant Head coach.
Put yourself in Garrett's position. You've been a n NFL head coach for 10 years. Now you get a call from the Giants (your former team) come help out their young head coach. You want to do it, except ...
They have another inexperienced guy in the mix (Graham); will there be circumstances that you have to answer to him ?
It could get complicated when the bullets start flying. You're trying to reason with the young head coach, but now this other guy shoots you logic down. How long can you deal with that ?
- Too many Chiefs, not enough Indians -
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anti-anybody questioning them. And abusive along the way...
I am Pro-Giants.
Kinda the reason I'm on BBI.
You, are a dick. Kinda the reason so many people are tired of your act.
But I'm sure you're a fine person.
kinda rude...
Does anyone have a link to confirm that the comment highlighted is true or false? “That the Cowboys were ranked in the top 3 twice in Garrett’s three years as Cowboys OC before he became HC?“
This is still gnawing at me. I’d love for it to be true, but one very reputable poster here took exception so,I would like to confirm this once and for all. I will keep looking too.
So opting against baseless optimism is wallowing in misery?
The Giants are the second worst team in the NFL since Gettleman took over. That's not opinion, it's a fact. Is observing that reality wallowing in misery? Is skepticism over this regime unjustified? If so, how many miserable seasons do we have to endure before it's ok to be critical? Tell us when it's ok.
There's a group of people here that would watch a plane fly into a mountain and tell themselves everyone on board is fine because anything else is wallowing in misery. And they expect everyone else to also delude themselves.
Just tell us when it's ok to actually ask why the Giants suck. Because some of us are actually tired of it.
Some interesting logic on this thread - like you should just be optimistic regardless of what you're seeing, and that there's no point in discussing the merits of a move that hasn't happened yet.
I guess a lot of people are Stuart Smalley fans, and just really need their daily affirmation.
Either things are going to improve, or in a few years you won't be able to tell Giants fans apart from Redskins fans. All we're missing is Joe Gibbs' "Master Plan" at this point.
Does anyone have a link to confirm that the comment highlighted is true or false? “That the Cowboys were ranked in the top 3 twice in Garrett’s three years as Cowboys OC before he became HC?“
This is still gnawing at me. I’d love for it to be true, but one very reputable poster here took exception so,I would like to confirm this once and for all. I will keep looking too.
Yes, I found the answer. If interested, here are the stats: Offense rank for 2007-2009, the years Garrett was OC with Dallas....
2007:
Points scored 2nd. Total yards...3rd
2008:
Points scored ...18. Total yards...13
2009:
Points scored...14. Total yards....2nd
So, depending on what stat means most to you, Ralph V was right if you use TOTAL YARDS as the category that interested you. Obviously, if you use TOTAL POINTS SCORED, he would not be right.
Dallas Yearly Records and Rankings - ( New Window )
I don't think JG would've been interviewed if JJ didn't want him to be.
ny post - ( New Window )
If you can't understand why people would be worried about that, not sure there's any point in continuing the discussion, carry on your celebration. The next time you can really grade the Giants on progress is 8 months away, and until then all there will be is a back and forth exchange of opinions. Many of them will be negative, as you'd expect from a team that has managed 12 wins cumulatively over the combined last 3 seasons.
So you literally are just making something up to bitch about out of thin air. No basis, but simply "what if"?
Why not just focus on what we know and try to find positives moving forward?
Perpetuating this "Giants way" bullshit that bw created does nothing for anybody.
So Ralph V used total yards instead of points scored to make that comment. I guess he wanted to support his agenda (promote Garrett) with more convincing stats. Me personally, I prefer total points over yards...might have red zone issues.
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to be cheery about the past few years, but the vast majority weren't even complaining about the hire - just worried that the Giants might be pushing Judge to make a hire he's not 100% onboard with.
If you can't understand why people would be worried about that, not sure there's any point in continuing the discussion, carry on your celebration. The next time you can really grade the Giants on progress is 8 months away, and until then all there will be is a back and forth exchange of opinions. Many of them will be negative, as you'd expect from a team that has managed 12 wins cumulatively over the combined last 3 seasons.
So you literally are just making something up to bitch about out of thin air. No basis, but simply "what if"?
First off - I'm not even the one who made the complaints. I actually liked the Judge hire, and I think Garrett would be a good addition to the coaching staff if he ultimately gets the job.
But this 'making something up to bitch about' is overblown. It's discussion. It was pointed out as a possible concern. This team has been SO FUCKING BAD for such a long time, that I don't fault people for finding ways that shit can blow up. Jumping all over people and calling them bad fans or accusing them of being overly negative in an attempt to discourage any discussion of a potential problem is silly.
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metric you use on the offenses ranking. In yards, they were top 5 twice and top 10 3 times in Garrett's OC tenure. Points is different. Look to the right side of the table linked Dallas Yearly Records and Rankings - ( New Window )
So Ralph V used total yards instead of points scored to make that comment. I guess he wanted to support his agenda (promote Garrett) with more convincing stats. Me personally, I prefer total points over yards...might have red zone issues.
Either way shows a better than average to a very good offense
OC, who spent 10 years as a HC working alongside him?
I have to believe this interview most likely came from Mara and DG, just a guess.
I mean Garrett did play here for a couple years
as a backup to Kerry Collins, so the Giants have always liked him.
He did a good job with Romo in Dallas,
especially when he was just getting started as a
QB there. I think Wade Phillips was the HC then, until he got axed.
They could do worse than Garrett,
and probably will if they don't hire him, LOL.
And of course the logical offshoot of that is that Mara and DG are forcing the hire. Shhesh.
the HC position. I am simply stating that a guy who was a long shot to become the HC in the first place, and has never been a HC before, just might not be extremely comfortable with the possible hiring at the outset.
It doesn't mean it couldn't work.
As i said, I believe that Mara and the GM most likely
talked to Judge about interviewing Garrett.
I mean, they do like Garrett, from his time here as a player, and from afar.
And of course the logical offshoot of that is that Mara and DG are forcing the hire. Shhesh.
Are you doing the old 'BBI sez' thing again? Because you and I both know you're referring to different posters and different opinions there.
So basically - taken as a whole, BBI is all over the place regarding a potential Jason Garrett hire. Did or should you have expected differently? Some people didn't like the Judge hire, some loved it. Some people liked Garrett as a potential HC, some hated him. Why would you expect some sort of magical harmonization of opinion at this point given how people's opinions diverged so greatly before he was an OC candidate?
Because when the usual 5-7 openings occur at the end of 2020, Garrett will be on everyone's short list. And Garrett will definitely want back in...