without ownership or the front office interfering.
And you see evidence of the front office interfering where?
It's a fact that they have determined assistant coaches before. They did it for Coughlin and McAdoo, may have done it for Shurmur. One can have a justified concern without evidence.
sure, but youre telling me the giants forced graham on JJ? lmfao. evidence for THIS hire points to them letting him pick his staff..
without ownership or the front office interfering.
And you see evidence of the front office interfering where?
It's a fact that they have determined assistant coaches before. They did it for Coughlin and McAdoo, may have done it for Shurmur. One can have a justified concern without evidence.
It is not a little weird that they hired a QB coach BEFORE the OC. Shurmur was just hired by Denver and axed the QB coach to get his own guy in there. So, something is going on with the OC hire that seems a bit out of line. Otherwise, why not let Garrett come in here - if he is the guy - and hire his own guys? In fact, Kitna - a Garrett guy - was not retained and is available. But if Garrett takes this job, it will be with some or many of his assistants already determined. That is flat out weird.
RE: I can't believe anyone would knock this hire for OC Â
The guy has like 10 years of HC experience with an 85-67 record (perfect considering Judge has zero HC/coordinator experience), and go back and look at Romo and Dak's stats season in and season out. An undrafted guy and a 4th rounder and both QBs were/have been incredibly prolific. Even if the QBs came up short in big moments, you can't say he didn't get the most he could out of those guys based on their talent and draft position.
If he gets a HC position in a year or 2 I don't see that as a negative, that will have meant he did a great job and the Giants are competitive again (most likely).
This>>>>>>
Anyway look at the history of successful first year coaches. They usually bring an experienced/ former head coach with them. Mcvay with Phillip's, Nagy had Fangio, Pederson had Schwartz, Dan Quinn had Shannahan, I could go on
RE: PhD candidate, Yale graduate, Princeton grad.... Â
but can somebody who wants Gruden over Garrett please make that argument to me? Please. What has Gruden done in his career to trump Garrett? Gruden just came off of a bad losing record as a HC the last 5 years with the Skins, and it's not like you look at his time with the Bengals and see this vast difference in Andy Dalton's stats with vs. without him. If anything Dalton had his best seasons without Gruden (aside from the one transition season immediately after Gruden left).
Is it literally only because Gruden can bring Callahan with him as OL coach? Seems like a stretch to me to want a guy for OC just for the OL coach he MIGHT bring along.
Please-- someone make the argument to me: Gruden > Garrett. I don't get it.
RE: RE: RE: RE: I want Judge to hire whomever he wants, Â
without ownership or the front office interfering.
And you see evidence of the front office interfering where?
It's a fact that they have determined assistant coaches before. They did it for Coughlin and McAdoo, may have done it for Shurmur. One can have a justified concern without evidence.
It is not a little weird that they hired a QB coach BEFORE the OC. Shurmur was just hired by Denver and axed the QB coach to get his own guy in there. So, something is going on with the OC hire that seems a bit out of line. Otherwise, why not let Garrett come in here - if he is the guy - and hire his own guys? In fact, Kitna - a Garrett guy - was not retained and is available. But if Garrett takes this job, it will be with some or many of his assistants already determined. That is flat out weird.
Or perhaps Garrett told them who he wanted and this hiring was agreed to days ago, but just not announced to avoid messing with his contract.
RE: RE: RE: RE: I want Judge to hire whomever he wants, Â
without ownership or the front office interfering.
And you see evidence of the front office interfering where?
It's a fact that they have determined assistant coaches before. They did it for Coughlin and McAdoo, may have done it for Shurmur. One can have a justified concern without evidence.
sure, but youre telling me the giants forced graham on JJ? lmfao. evidence for THIS hire points to them letting him pick his staff..
No. Judge clearly got to make some of his other hires. But OC may not have been one of them, if Garrett was available to them. I see no other way to explain hiring QB coaches and other guys BEFORE the OC.
without ownership or the front office interfering.
And you see evidence of the front office interfering where?
It's a fact that they have determined assistant coaches before. They did it for Coughlin and McAdoo, may have done it for Shurmur. One can have a justified concern without evidence.
That’s far from a fact. In fact Mara flat out denied this, making the bob mcadoo joke about he didn’t know who ben was before he interviewed.
Mara could be lying, but what you are saying is not verifiable
I would like to see a younger coach such as Shane Waldron of the Rams who has a fair amount of experience, is the passing coordinator and QB coach and obviously comes from a team with a good RB so they know how to have a balanced attack and has Pats ties but if they don't want to go in that type of direction I can live with Garrett.
Romo and Dax have had success under him. I think Jones could do a lot worse and obviously they have a good RB as well.
It is most important that the Giants regain their identity. Good defense, get to the QB, stop the run, run the ball. If you are playing in the Meadowlands you need a solid rushing attack. Can't just drop back 40-50 times. That means a good OL to block and keep the ground game going.
So some people don't want to hire Garrett because there is a chance he will leave in one year for a HC job? Brilliant. So lets hire someone that nobody would want. Any good OC or DC eventually will leave for a HC job.
without ownership or the front office interfering.
And you see evidence of the front office interfering where?
It's a fact that they have determined assistant coaches before. They did it for Coughlin and McAdoo, may have done it for Shurmur. One can have a justified concern without evidence.
It is not a little weird that they hired a QB coach BEFORE the OC. Shurmur was just hired by Denver and axed the QB coach to get his own guy in there. So, something is going on with the OC hire that seems a bit out of line. Otherwise, why not let Garrett come in here - if he is the guy - and hire his own guys? In fact, Kitna - a Garrett guy - was not retained and is available. But if Garrett takes this job, it will be with some or many of his assistants already determined. That is flat out weird.
Or perhaps Garrett told them who he wanted and this hiring was agreed to days ago, but just not announced to avoid messing with his contract.
How? There is no evidence they spoke to - or had the right to - Garrett previously. And the QB coach has a known relationship with Judge. This seems to me like a situation where the Giants are saying be our OC, but you are accepting our previous hires. Or where Judge said, I'll hire your preference for OC, but I want my guys at QB coach, etc. A compromise, so to speak.
role in putting together the Dallas offensive line ... I’d be very happy if he signs on ... Orders of magnitude better than the 30 yo whiz kid with near zero experience.
What is his offensive philosophy? Also, didn't he have a knack for making some bone-headed in-game decisions?
Well, that is the benefit of not having him as head coach. He is not making those in-game decisions. Garrett will call the plays, design the offense, but Judge will decide whether to go for it and will obviously have some involvement in guiding the offense.
When McAdoo was hired as OC, he was helpful for Manning. But Coughlin's presence kept McAdoo in check. Once HC, McAdoo went to 11 personnel on every play. Even if the HC is not calling plays, he is involved with the offense. That will help Garrett.
What is his offensive philosophy? Also, didn't he have a knack for making some bone-headed in-game decisions?
Well, that is the benefit of not having him as head coach. He is not making those in-game decisions. Garrett will call the plays, design the offense, but Judge will decide whether to go for it and will obviously have some involvement in guiding the offense.
When McAdoo was hired as OC, he was helpful for Manning. But Coughlin's presence kept McAdoo in check. Once HC, McAdoo went to 11 personnel on every play. Even if the HC is not calling plays, he is involved with the offense. That will help Garrett.
1) The Giants haven't really interviewed anyone else & waited until Garrett's contract was up.
2) We desperately need a coach with prior HC experience. You can question how good he was at being an HC, but he does have extensive experience.
3) Mara loves him.
The hope is that he can convince Callahan to come on and be the OL coach under him. They have ties back to their Dallas days.
Count me as one that likes this move. Dak and DJ are not too different (I think DJ is a better passer). Garrett did great work with Dak and other QBs he's had. Lastly, Garrett's one and only year as the OC in Dallas, they had the 2nd best offense in the league.
but can somebody who wants Gruden over Garrett please make that argument to me? Please. What has Gruden done in his career to trump Garrett? Gruden just came off of a bad losing record as a HC the last 5 years with the Skins, and it's not like you look at his time with the Bengals and see this vast difference in Andy Dalton's stats with vs. without him. If anything Dalton had his best seasons without Gruden (aside from the one transition season immediately after Gruden left).
Is it literally only because Gruden can bring Callahan with him as OL coach? Seems like a stretch to me to want a guy for OC just for the OL coach he MIGHT bring along.
Please-- someone make the argument to me: Gruden > Garrett. I don't get it.
Leg, FYI, Callahan was Garrett’s OC for 3 years at Dallas too.
1) The Giants haven't really interviewed anyone else & waited until Garrett's contract was up.
2) We desperately need a coach with prior HC experience. You can question how good he was at being an HC, but he does have extensive experience.
3) Mara loves him.
The hope is that he can convince Callahan to come on and be the OL coach under him. They have ties back to their Dallas days.
Count me as one that likes this move. Dak and DJ are not too different (I think DJ is a better passer). Garrett did great work with Dak and other QBs he's had. Lastly, Garrett's one and only year as the OC in Dallas, they had the 2nd best offense in the league.
I agree with this. If they wanted someone who was already available, they'd have signed them. I always believed there was a reason they had waited to hire an OC. I was hoping that reason was Joe Brady. It strongly appears now that it was Garrett.
I'd be very surprised if they don't wrap up a deal with him by later this afternoon. After getting beaten out by Carolina for Rhule, it would be shocking to see them allow a guy they want leave the building and give other teams a shot at him. And if Garrett didn't want the job, he would not be there interviewing for it.
Romo's career passer rating: 97.1
Dak's career passer rating: 97.0
Romo's career comp. %: 65.3%
Dak's career comp. %: 65.8%
Just interesting to see that kind of consistency with the one common denominator being Garrett. Also both had better than a 2:1 TD:INT ratio and Dak's is in fact close to 3:1.
I have no doubt based on what we've seen from DJ that Garrett can get similar or better production out of him.
in that if this happens, I hope it's a move that Judge is behind and not one he felt pressured into making.
There are a lot of reasons that he would make sense as an OC and as a help to Judge, not the least of which I"m sure the organization would like someone on his staff that has had head coaching experience that Judge can lean on.
Of course, from the standpoint at being at Dallas, it's not the worst thing for the Giants to have their OC be in position closely know their entire division, including a Dallas team they haven't beaten forever.
in that if this happens, I hope it's a move that Judge is behind and not one he felt pressured into making.
There are a lot of reasons that he would make sense as an OC and as a help to Judge, not the least of which I"m sure the organization would like someone on his staff that has had head coaching experience that Judge can lean on.
Of course, from the standpoint at being at Dallas, it's not the worst thing for the Giants to have their OC be in position closely know their entire division, including a Dallas team they haven't beaten forever.
Dak to Daniel Jones
Zeke to Saquon Barkley
Witten to Evan Engram
Can help us in the draft room identifying our future all pro Offensive Lineman (Tyron, Fredricks, Martin)
When he remembers what our offensive line is like.
you do realize that the FA period and the draft is still yet to come right? SO some time to improve that area
Gosh, no, I had no idea that the FA period and the draft were still yet to come. Thank you so much for letting me know. I'll sleep much better now.
Oh Good. You had me worried there for a moment the way you had Garrett running from the room affright with our OLine as if it would be the same next year.
Quote:
In comment 14780456 Go Terps said:
Quote:
without ownership or the front office interfering.
And you see evidence of the front office interfering where?
It's a fact that they have determined assistant coaches before. They did it for Coughlin and McAdoo, may have done it for Shurmur. One can have a justified concern without evidence.
sure, but youre telling me the giants forced graham on JJ? lmfao. evidence for THIS hire points to them letting him pick his staff..
Would be a pretty intellectual top 3 :) .
Quote:
In comment 14780456 Go Terps said:
Quote:
without ownership or the front office interfering.
And you see evidence of the front office interfering where?
It's a fact that they have determined assistant coaches before. They did it for Coughlin and McAdoo, may have done it for Shurmur. One can have a justified concern without evidence.
It is not a little weird that they hired a QB coach BEFORE the OC. Shurmur was just hired by Denver and axed the QB coach to get his own guy in there. So, something is going on with the OC hire that seems a bit out of line. Otherwise, why not let Garrett come in here - if he is the guy - and hire his own guys? In fact, Kitna - a Garrett guy - was not retained and is available. But if Garrett takes this job, it will be with some or many of his assistants already determined. That is flat out weird.
If he gets a HC position in a year or 2 I don't see that as a negative, that will have meant he did a great job and the Giants are competitive again (most likely).
This>>>>>>
Anyway look at the history of successful first year coaches. They usually bring an experienced/ former head coach with them. Mcvay with Phillip's, Nagy had Fangio, Pederson had Schwartz, Dan Quinn had Shannahan, I could go on
Would be a pretty intellectual top 3 :) .
The next Jeopardy GOAT challenge
Is it literally only because Gruden can bring Callahan with him as OL coach? Seems like a stretch to me to want a guy for OC just for the OL coach he MIGHT bring along.
Please-- someone make the argument to me: Gruden > Garrett. I don't get it.
Quote:
In comment 14780460 Chris in Philly said:
Quote:
In comment 14780456 Go Terps said:
Quote:
without ownership or the front office interfering.
And you see evidence of the front office interfering where?
It's a fact that they have determined assistant coaches before. They did it for Coughlin and McAdoo, may have done it for Shurmur. One can have a justified concern without evidence.
It is not a little weird that they hired a QB coach BEFORE the OC. Shurmur was just hired by Denver and axed the QB coach to get his own guy in there. So, something is going on with the OC hire that seems a bit out of line. Otherwise, why not let Garrett come in here - if he is the guy - and hire his own guys? In fact, Kitna - a Garrett guy - was not retained and is available. But if Garrett takes this job, it will be with some or many of his assistants already determined. That is flat out weird.
Or perhaps Garrett told them who he wanted and this hiring was agreed to days ago, but just not announced to avoid messing with his contract.
Quote:
In comment 14780460 Chris in Philly said:
Quote:
In comment 14780456 Go Terps said:
Quote:
without ownership or the front office interfering.
And you see evidence of the front office interfering where?
It's a fact that they have determined assistant coaches before. They did it for Coughlin and McAdoo, may have done it for Shurmur. One can have a justified concern without evidence.
sure, but youre telling me the giants forced graham on JJ? lmfao. evidence for THIS hire points to them letting him pick his staff..
No. Judge clearly got to make some of his other hires. But OC may not have been one of them, if Garrett was available to them. I see no other way to explain hiring QB coaches and other guys BEFORE the OC.
Quote:
In comment 14780456 Go Terps said:
Quote:
without ownership or the front office interfering.
And you see evidence of the front office interfering where?
It's a fact that they have determined assistant coaches before. They did it for Coughlin and McAdoo, may have done it for Shurmur. One can have a justified concern without evidence.
That’s far from a fact. In fact Mara flat out denied this, making the bob mcadoo joke about he didn’t know who ben was before he interviewed.
Mara could be lying, but what you are saying is not verifiable
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Don't be surprised if he doesn't leave the building.
Romo and Dax have had success under him. I think Jones could do a lot worse and obviously they have a good RB as well.
It is most important that the Giants regain their identity. Good defense, get to the QB, stop the run, run the ball. If you are playing in the Meadowlands you need a solid rushing attack. Can't just drop back 40-50 times. That means a good OL to block and keep the ground game going.
Quote:
In comment 14780473 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
In comment 14780460 Chris in Philly said:
Quote:
In comment 14780456 Go Terps said:
Quote:
without ownership or the front office interfering.
And you see evidence of the front office interfering where?
It's a fact that they have determined assistant coaches before. They did it for Coughlin and McAdoo, may have done it for Shurmur. One can have a justified concern without evidence.
It is not a little weird that they hired a QB coach BEFORE the OC. Shurmur was just hired by Denver and axed the QB coach to get his own guy in there. So, something is going on with the OC hire that seems a bit out of line. Otherwise, why not let Garrett come in here - if he is the guy - and hire his own guys? In fact, Kitna - a Garrett guy - was not retained and is available. But if Garrett takes this job, it will be with some or many of his assistants already determined. That is flat out weird.
Or perhaps Garrett told them who he wanted and this hiring was agreed to days ago, but just not announced to avoid messing with his contract.
How? There is no evidence they spoke to - or had the right to - Garrett previously. And the QB coach has a known relationship with Judge. This seems to me like a situation where the Giants are saying be our OC, but you are accepting our previous hires. Or where Judge said, I'll hire your preference for OC, but I want my guys at QB coach, etc. A compromise, so to speak.
And Callahan
Hopefully he brings his OL coach too
Well, that is the benefit of not having him as head coach. He is not making those in-game decisions. Garrett will call the plays, design the offense, but Judge will decide whether to go for it and will obviously have some involvement in guiding the offense.
When McAdoo was hired as OC, he was helpful for Manning. But Coughlin's presence kept McAdoo in check. Once HC, McAdoo went to 11 personnel on every play. Even if the HC is not calling plays, he is involved with the offense. That will help Garrett.
Quote:
What is his offensive philosophy? Also, didn't he have a knack for making some bone-headed in-game decisions?
Well, that is the benefit of not having him as head coach. He is not making those in-game decisions. Garrett will call the plays, design the offense, but Judge will decide whether to go for it and will obviously have some involvement in guiding the offense.
When McAdoo was hired as OC, he was helpful for Manning. But Coughlin's presence kept McAdoo in check. Once HC, McAdoo went to 11 personnel on every play. Even if the HC is not calling plays, he is involved with the offense. That will help Garrett.
Ah ok, thanks for clarifying that for me.
2) We desperately need a coach with prior HC experience. You can question how good he was at being an HC, but he does have extensive experience.
3) Mara loves him.
The hope is that he can convince Callahan to come on and be the OL coach under him. They have ties back to their Dallas days.
Count me as one that likes this move. Dak and DJ are not too different (I think DJ is a better passer). Garrett did great work with Dak and other QBs he's had. Lastly, Garrett's one and only year as the OC in Dallas, they had the 2nd best offense in the league.
Link - ( New Window )
you do realize that the FA period and the draft is still yet to come right? SO some time to improve that area
Is it literally only because Gruden can bring Callahan with him as OL coach? Seems like a stretch to me to want a guy for OC just for the OL coach he MIGHT bring along.
Please-- someone make the argument to me: Gruden > Garrett. I don't get it.
Leg, FYI, Callahan was Garrett’s OC for 3 years at Dallas too.
Everything Dallas does is a JJ move...
2) We desperately need a coach with prior HC experience. You can question how good he was at being an HC, but he does have extensive experience.
3) Mara loves him.
The hope is that he can convince Callahan to come on and be the OL coach under him. They have ties back to their Dallas days.
Count me as one that likes this move. Dak and DJ are not too different (I think DJ is a better passer). Garrett did great work with Dak and other QBs he's had. Lastly, Garrett's one and only year as the OC in Dallas, they had the 2nd best offense in the league.
I agree with this. If they wanted someone who was already available, they'd have signed them. I always believed there was a reason they had waited to hire an OC. I was hoping that reason was Joe Brady. It strongly appears now that it was Garrett.
I'd be very surprised if they don't wrap up a deal with him by later this afternoon. After getting beaten out by Carolina for Rhule, it would be shocking to see them allow a guy they want leave the building and give other teams a shot at him. And if Garrett didn't want the job, he would not be there interviewing for it.
Dak's career passer rating: 97.0
Romo's career comp. %: 65.3%
Dak's career comp. %: 65.8%
Just interesting to see that kind of consistency with the one common denominator being Garrett. Also both had better than a 2:1 TD:INT ratio and Dak's is in fact close to 3:1.
I have no doubt based on what we've seen from DJ that Garrett can get similar or better production out of him.
A commitment to run the ball A LOT
Not a very creative passing game
Ideally we'd have a passing game coordinator in addition to Garrett.
Quote:
When he remembers what our offensive line is like.
you do realize that the FA period and the draft is still yet to come right? SO some time to improve that area
Gosh, no, I had no idea that the FA period and the draft were still yet to come. Thank you so much for letting me know. I'll sleep much better now.
“How the hell do we stop Whitten” ?
There are a lot of reasons that he would make sense as an OC and as a help to Judge, not the least of which I"m sure the organization would like someone on his staff that has had head coaching experience that Judge can lean on.
Of course, from the standpoint at being at Dallas, it's not the worst thing for the Giants to have their OC be in position closely know their entire division, including a Dallas team they haven't beaten forever.
There are a lot of reasons that he would make sense as an OC and as a help to Judge, not the least of which I"m sure the organization would like someone on his staff that has had head coaching experience that Judge can lean on.
Of course, from the standpoint at being at Dallas, it's not the worst thing for the Giants to have their OC be in position closely know their entire division, including a Dallas team they haven't beaten forever.
Mara said it’s hands off. I believe him
Count me in as excited!
Zeke to Saquon Barkley
Witten to Evan Engram
Can help us in the draft room identifying our future all pro Offensive Lineman (Tyron, Fredricks, Martin)
Quote:
In comment 14780465 Klaatu said:
Quote:
When he remembers what our offensive line is like.
you do realize that the FA period and the draft is still yet to come right? SO some time to improve that area
Gosh, no, I had no idea that the FA period and the draft were still yet to come. Thank you so much for letting me know. I'll sleep much better now.
Oh Good. You had me worried there for a moment the way you had Garrett running from the room affright with our OLine as if it would be the same next year.
He was the Dallas OC 2007-2010, and may have also called plays in 2011.
Callahan became OC in 2012