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FOX Sports: 2020 NFL Mock Draft 4.0

GFAN52 : 1/15/2020 9:09 pm
1. Cinncinati Bengals- Joe Burrow QB
2. Washington Redskins - Chase Young DE
3. Detroit Lions - Isaiah Simmons LB
4. New York Giants - Jeff Okudah DB
5. Miami Dolphins - Tua Tagovailoa QB
6. Los Angeles Chargers Justin Herbert QB
7. Carolina Panthers Derrick Brown DT


Back to back QBs at 5 and 6.


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Burrow is going 1 and Young is going 2  
Rjanyg : 1/15/2020 11:19 pm : link
Detroit is the wildcard. I can see anything happening here. Simmons, Okudah or trade.
If Tua is given the health green light...  
bw in dc : 1/15/2020 11:26 pm : link
and he's there at #4, we need to draft him.

And then sit back and wait for the best offers. Like having a nice house to sell in a seller's market.
'Tua...he's there at #4, we need to draft him.'  
Torrag : 1/15/2020 11:35 pm : link
Interesting notion except it's flawed logic as far as a risk-reward scenario. The second you actually hand in the card with his name on it you lose your position of strength leverage. Everyone knows you aren't keeping two Top 10 QB picks. Just as 'Zona did with Murray and Rosen and got bent over on the return garnering only a late 2nd and 2020 5th rounder. You want to trade the pick you do it before you're on the clock. That's how you maximize the return with minimal exposure.
RE: 'Tua...he's there at #4, we need to draft him.'  
bw in dc : 1/15/2020 11:42 pm : link
In comment 14781267 Torrag said:
Quote:
Interesting notion except it's flawed logic as far as a risk-reward scenario. The second you actually hand in the card with his name on it you lose your position of strength leverage. Everyone knows you aren't keeping two Top 10 QB picks. Just as 'Zona did with Murray and Rosen and got bent over on the return garnering only a late 2nd and 2020 5th rounder. You want to trade the pick you do it before you're on the clock. That's how you maximize the return with minimal exposure.


Not sure if the Arizona situation applies. Jones was way more productive than Rosen and showed he is an NFL starter.

Rosen played okay, but there just wasn't enough there to make a team feel great. Plus, I think there was still this stigma about his personality.
'Not sure if the Arizona situation applies'  
Torrag : 1/16/2020 12:01 am : link
That's an example of the negotiating tactics in play. The offers won't appreciably alter if we pick Tua. Teams will put their best foot forward to get him in a multiple bidder scenario. There's no reason to suppose they would offer more at a later date and our risk increases dramatically. The smart play is deal the pick if there is an offer deemed to be acceptable. If not then pick the player we want. Don't get cute about it.
Draft a QB at 4 huh?  
lono801 : 1/16/2020 12:22 am : link
Yet Gettleman doesn't have a clue?
RE: Im not saying I would  
OC2.0 : 1/16/2020 2:51 am : link
In comment 14781181 90.Cal said:
Quote:
But if Simmons is truly special... and Im not sure about that either, I like him but... if he is truly special you dont pass on that regardless of position. However, if Im Detroit Im looking at all defense as a smoke screen while I strongly, strongly, strongly consider Tua and these other QBs. Should be able to fetch a high pick or picks for Stafford or keep him for another year while you wait on Tua to get healthy then look to move Matt Staff


I would say there is 0 chance Det. takes a QB
RE: Ohio State corners scare me ever since Eli Apple  
CromartiesKid21 : 1/16/2020 6:24 am : link
In comment 14781164 90.Cal said:
Quote:
Lattimore has been up and down but definitely more of a plus than a negative. What happened to the OSU corner the Raiders drafted in round 1 a few years ago? Anyway, is Okudah really the real deal...??? I heard about Jalen Ramsay years before he was draft eligible, but some speak of Okudah like hes the next best corner coming out since Ramsay...


Gareon Conely did an excellent job against the Bills with 6 tackles and added a sack and 5 more tackles against the Chiefs. Texans got him for nothing. They also claimed Vernon Hargreaves and making him useful as well.

While the Giants keep drafting corners and using supplemental picks on them.
RE: Draft Chase Young or Okudah, true blue chip  
Tuckrule : 1/16/2020 6:28 am : link
In comment 14781134 George from PA said:
Quote:
Or trade down


+1. I have wirfs as a top guy as well reminds me of Kmac just a muauler in the run game with the wrestling background. Count me as intrigued. Looks like the best tackle prospect. Even if he plays strictly right tackle. Hes worthy of the selection.
Big rick  
Tuckrule : 1/16/2020 6:30 am : link
Young is going to the skins. Kerrigan is older and doesnt have many years left. You can pencil in sweat and young for the next 8 years as bookends. They also have Ryan Anderson, another guy I loved, to backup the 2 spots.
RE: Most mock drafts  
Diver_Down : 1/16/2020 6:54 am : link
In comment 14781217 Big Rick in FL said:
Quote:
Don't project trades, but I'd be very surprised if Miami stayed put at 5. I totally expect them to move up to 2 or 3 to make sure they don't miss out on Tua. Especially with the news coming out that he's probably going to have a Pro Day or at least a throwing session for scouts prior to the draft. I guess the feedback he's getting from the Doctors has been really positive.

One more thing. I wouldn't pencil Chase Young in to the Redskins even if they stay put at 2. People did the same thing with Josh Allen last year and said there's no way he'd be available at 6. The Skins have used 3 straight first round picks on the DL. They picked Jonathan Allen at 17, Da'Ron Payne at 13 and Montez Sweat at 26. It's hard to use 4 picks straight on one group especially when you have so many needs. Then knowing you're going to have to spend a ton of money to keep that group together. Most likely they take him, but people are saying to write it down in pen and I don't see that at the moment.


I agree with the premise of not writing Young's name in ink to Washington. Another factor is the Trent Williams decision. While they have changed out the coaching/training/medical staffs, there is no guarantee that the relationship is repaired. Penn was only there on a 1 yr deal. Washington very well might decide to trade down, draft their next LT, or take Young. The likelihood is that they will take Young, but I wouldn't write it down in ink (yet). Let's wait to see how FA shakes out (will they sign another stopgap at LT?). Let's wait to see how Tua looks at his Pro Day and whether Miami and others compete to pick ahead of each other.
RE: Lions  
mittenedman : 1/16/2020 7:09 am : link
I would love to pick up MLB Jarrad Davis in free agency.
Take The Best Player  
Rong5611 : 1/16/2020 7:13 am : link
Okudah is supposed to be a shutdown corner. We still need help at CB. If he's there, you take him.
Drafting another db  
joeinpa : 1/16/2020 7:26 am : link
After investing so much draft capital on that position the past two years would bother me a bit. You would hope that need was meant the past two years.

But if he is the best player in the board, I get it.
RE: If Tua is given the health green light...  
Justlurking : 1/16/2020 7:28 am : link
In comment 14781262 bw in dc said:
Quote:
and he's there at #4, we need to draft him.

And then sit back and wait for the best offers. Like having a nice house to sell in a seller's market.


No you trade out. If both Herbert and Tua are on board you will have offers.

Detroit will prob trade down 1st and out maneuver senile G though.
If your Wash or Det  
stoneman : 1/16/2020 7:31 am : link
its going to be hard to pass up on multiple 1st rounders. Mia, LV, and Jax have the 2020 resources, other QB needy teams with 2021 assets.

It may actually work out better if Wash did take Chase, leaving NYG with the better trade down offer, ahead of Mia. Even if Mia moved to #3, they would still be in a pretty decent landing spot for Herbert/Eason/Fromm/Love. Just gotta hope one of these QBs rises in the next few months.
Another reminder about late season wins  
JonC : 1/16/2020 7:51 am : link
that drop you in the draft. Bah.

Root for a QB hungry team to trade up. If Young and Okudah are gone and we don't like an OT up there, got to try and trade down. Would be the classic time to do it.
RE: RE: If Tua is given the health green light...  
section125 : 1/16/2020 7:51 am : link
In comment 14781333 Justlurking said:
Quote:
In comment 14781262 bw in dc said:


Quote:


and he's there at #4, we need to draft him.

And then sit back and wait for the best offers. Like having a nice house to sell in a seller's market.



No you trade out. If both Herbert and Tua are on board you will have offers.

Detroit will prob trade down 1st and out maneuver senile G though.


Before you call someone senile, you'd best look at yourself. Detroit holds the #3 pick, the one IN FRONT or the Giants. There is nothing to outmaneuver, they already have the better pick.
The rush to look chique is getting dumber by the day.
RE: Another reminder about late season wins  
GFAN52 : 1/16/2020 8:19 am : link
In comment 14781340 JonC said:
Quote:
that drop you in the draft. Bah.

Root for a QB hungry team to trade up. If Young and Okudah are gone and we don't like an OT up there, got to try and trade down. Would be the classic time to do it.


And it would be a first time for DG to trade down, but you never know. Maybe Judge will help change that.
If I'm correct and the OTs don't carry the grade  
JonC : 1/16/2020 8:21 am : link
he has to look at trading down, the extra picks could be worth more than the talent staring at him at #4.
Disappointing crop for OT and Edge  
JonC : 1/16/2020 8:24 am : link
and I'd rather not reach.

Wildcard could be the WR talent, but right now I prefer the trade down option.
It's possible  
JPinstripes : 1/16/2020 8:27 am : link
that when it's all said and done and draft day is upon us that 2-3 QBs are selected before NYG picks 4 and if not, a strong trade down offer will come to NYG for the 4th overall pick. QBs historically "rise" closer to draft day...
RE: If I'm correct and the OTs don't carry the grade  
jvm52106 : 1/16/2020 8:36 am : link
In comment 14781360 JonC said:
Quote:
he has to look at trading down, the extra picks could be worth more than the talent staring at him at #4.


If Judge has influence here and I believe he will, then look to the Pats and how they draft. Trading down will be a very viable option and could net us more mid round(s) talent (2nd and 3rd rounders).

I like Simmons but not at 4 per se but if Giants like him that much then ok. I would like a trade down a where we get a 2nd 1st rounder and if we can come out of the draft with an impact defensive player and say WR Shenault I would be pretty happy.
Okudah is a luxury we cannot afford  
averagejoe : 1/16/2020 9:23 am : link
Just as Barkley was at number two overall. GIANTS CANNOT CONTINUE TO GET THEIR ASSES BEAT AT LOS. GIANTS NEED BIG MEN TO COMPETE. DE, LB, OL all day every day. We can't control the ball and we can't get off the field without them. A non-Revis CB has no value at all to a team that is rotten at it's core.
RE: Okudah is a luxury we cannot afford  
Coach Red Beaulieu : 1/16/2020 9:39 am : link
In comment 14781425 averagejoe said:
Quote:
Just as Barkley was at number two overall. GIANTS CANNOT CONTINUE TO GET THEIR ASSES BEAT AT LOS. GIANTS NEED BIG MEN TO COMPETE. DE, LB, OL all day every day. We can't control the ball and we can't get off the field without them. A non-Revis CB has no value at all to a team that is rotten at it's core.

We were in RB hell before Barkley.
If it was Belicheck at 3  
Giantimistic : 1/16/2020 9:40 am : link
He would trade down so lets see if Patricia follows that model and pushes for a trade down. That is where the whole draft becomes interesting.
...  
ryanmkeane : 1/16/2020 9:58 am : link
We tend to always say just trade down without realizing it takes two teams to do the trade. Just because wed like a trade down doesnt mean Giants are just going to take whatever offer they get. Sure, it would be great to move down a few spots and pick up a 2nd and 3rd, if we are lucky a 2020 1st. But if the offers are shit, stand pat and take a great prospect at 4.
Okudah is not a luxury  
ChicagoMarty : 1/16/2020 10:10 am : link
He would fill a desperate need.

The problem is we have a multitude of needs.

The value of good Qbs elevates the closer we get to the draft.

The opportunity to cash in on a trade down or two and obtaining more quality picks vs filling a desperate need is the equation that Jint front office needs to solve before going into this draft.
RE: RE: Okudah is a luxury we cannot afford  
averagejoe : 1/16/2020 10:45 am : link
In comment 14781450 Coach Red Beaulieu said:
Quote:
In comment 14781425 averagejoe said:


Quote:


Just as Barkley was at number two overall. GIANTS CANNOT CONTINUE TO GET THEIR ASSES BEAT AT LOS. GIANTS NEED BIG MEN TO COMPETE. DE, LB, OL all day every day. We can't control the ball and we can't get off the field without them. A non-Revis CB has no value at all to a team that is rotten at it's core.


We were in RB hell before Barkley.


We still are. Barkley is a boom or bust RB that does not move the chains. You can't control the ball with a back that takes losses because he likes to dance.
Barkley does not like to dance  
Eliyah : 1/16/2020 11:06 am : link
He is forced to dance because our OL has so many breakdowns that result in defensive players in our backfield
Okudah side note;  
idiotsavant : 1/16/2020 11:45 am : link
Not only played at safety in high school but was the #1 safety prospect coming out of high school.

"Plays zone and man"

"Keen instinct for schemes"

"Being on an island doesn't phase him"

We might have found our value/need player if our staff has the balls to make the guy a safety.

Maybe draft this guy in 1, McKinney in 2 and run a 4-1-6 with 3 dts
Wow  
gidiefor : Mod : 1/16/2020 11:52 am : link
the vast majority of that first Mock round is DBs, OLinemen or WRs

kind of weird

We are not loaded at CB  
JonC : 1/16/2020 11:54 am : link
Okudah would plug in nicely.

If you're paying attention to this draft class, the OT are not looking worthy.
Barkley dances when  
JonC : 1/16/2020 11:55 am : link
the blocking doesn't materialize or he's just trying too hard to bust one.
Whereas I typically favor fronts  
idiotsavant : 1/16/2020 12:07 pm : link
Value fronts as does "average Joe.
"


If you play 'cover-zero' (roster has no true free safety)

the ball will get out every time before ANY bigs would get a chance to the QB.

So my priority -right now- is back to front:

Free safety-

Inside LB

A front - up at the line - player of some kind, probably an "outside LB or 4/3 end type ."

In that order not reversed.

So okudah could probably represent a -major- improvent over frigging bethea at FS that's a start

Or mcKinney at some point in the draft.

Or both  
idiotsavant : 1/16/2020 12:18 pm : link
Then cluster draft LBs.

Then see you next year .
idiot did I read that right? You want to move Okudah to FS?  
Torrag : 1/16/2020 12:43 pm : link
That only happens if he fails at CB which would be bad. DB's that can flip their hips and play with their backs to the QB have the most value because they are harder to find. That's why they play corner.
I love when people  
MookGiants : 1/16/2020 12:45 pm : link
constantly say trade down.

Unless it's for a QB, what team is trading up? Trade down sounds nice but if there's no blue chip prospects available when Giants pick, why would a team trade up to get a non-blue chip prospect?

RE: I love when people  
figgy2989 : 1/16/2020 12:48 pm : link
In comment 14781872 MookGiants said:
Quote:
constantly say trade down.

Unless it's for a QB, what team is trading up? Trade down sounds nice but if there's no blue chip prospects available when Giants pick, why would a team trade up to get a non-blue chip prospect?


Didn't the Saints just do this a year or two ago for Marcus Davenport?
RE: Barkley dances when  
averagejoe : 1/16/2020 12:56 pm : link
In comment 14781692 JonC said:
Quote:
the blocking doesn't materialize or he's just trying too hard to bust one.


That is my point. If there is no hole you push the pile and make two yards. He refuses to do this. He stops, hops backward, and then crumbles into a fetal position and takes a loss. And once again we punt.
RE: RE: Barkley dances when  
Eman11 : 1/16/2020 2:22 pm : link
In comment 14781911 averagejoe said:
Quote:
In comment 14781692 JonC said:


Quote:


the blocking doesn't materialize or he's just trying too hard to bust one.



That is my point. If there is no hole you push the pile and make two yards. He refuses to do this. He stops, hops backward, and then crumbles into a fetal position and takes a loss. And once again we punt.


How is he supposed to do that when he's constantly being hit by penetration behind the LOS?

Maybe he could push the pile for two yards if he could reach the LOS. It sure seems to me the majority of his dancing behind the line was when he had no choice but to try and make something happen.
A mock draft version 4.0  
Mr. Bungle : 1/16/2020 2:23 pm : link
in mid-January.

God help us...
RE: Drafting another db  
Klaatu : 1/16/2020 2:25 pm : link
In comment 14781332 joeinpa said:
Quote:
After investing so much draft capital on that position the past two years would bother me a bit. You would hope that need was meant the past two years.

But if he is the best player in the board, I get it.


I feel the same way.
RE: RE: Barkley dances when  
JonC : 1/16/2020 2:28 pm : link
In comment 14781911 averagejoe said:
Quote:
In comment 14781692 JonC said:


Quote:


the blocking doesn't materialize or he's just trying too hard to bust one.



That is my point. If there is no hole you push the pile and make two yards. He refuses to do this. He stops, hops backward, and then crumbles into a fetal position and takes a loss. And once again we punt.


It ties into him trying to do too much, coach has to drill it into his head. He does it sometimes, and after a number of failures he gets frustrated and tries to create more.
RE: RE: Drafting another db  
Giants in 07 : 1/16/2020 2:30 pm : link
In comment 14782190 Klaatu said:
Quote:
In comment 14781332 joeinpa said:


Quote:


After investing so much draft capital on that position the past two years would bother me a bit. You would hope that need was meant the past two years.

But if he is the best player in the board, I get it.



I feel the same way.


I kind of feel the same way but you can't have too many good cover corners. And it seems that the Giants like Love at safety anyway
RE: I love when people  
gidiefor : Mod : 1/16/2020 2:33 pm : link
In comment 14781872 MookGiants said:
Quote:
constantly say trade down.


Mook, Be honest. You don't really love it, now, do you?

RE: Disappointing crop for OT and Edge  
BlueLou'sBack : 1/16/2020 2:35 pm : link
In comment 14781361 JonC said:
Quote:
and I'd rather not reach.

Wildcard could be the WR talent, but right now I prefer the trade down option.


Well the combine, rightly or wrongly, can change the percieved talent level of guys like Gross-Matos and Thomas, who are reportedly superior athletes.
RE: RE: RE: Drafting another db  
Klaatu : 1/16/2020 3:21 pm : link
In comment 14782205 Giants in 07 said:
Quote:
In comment 14782190 Klaatu said:


Quote:


In comment 14781332 joeinpa said:


Quote:


After investing so much draft capital on that position the past two years would bother me a bit. You would hope that need was meant the past two years.

But if he is the best player in the board, I get it.



I feel the same way.



I kind of feel the same way but you can't have too many good cover corners. And it seems that the Giants like Love at safety anyway


They could use another Safety. I hope they can sign a good one in free agency.

I don't have a problem with Okudah if he's the highest-graded player on their board when they're up (and he's still available). As you said, you can't have too many good cover corners. Still, I hope the new regime can get more out of Baker, Beal, and Ballantine. We'll see.
Good with Simmons or Okudah.  
TMS : 1/17/2020 3:29 pm : link
Both will be instant starters on this team. Thats what you have to get when you draft this high. So far so good with DG in this area. No developmental OL projects please. Flowers should have taught us that.
Here we go again  
arniefez : 1/17/2020 3:49 pm : link
a CB or some suggesting a WR you people never learn. How about a long snapper with the #2 pick.
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