He was only mentioned once in the report and you are a disingenuous piece of shit, because any time that fact was mentioned it was in response to fabricated claims that Beltran was a "ringleader" and by all accounts, including his apology, he was not.
To the people saying this was going to get ugly...exactly how? Would have blown over in a week. The Mets should know bad PR better than anyone.
MLB wasn't suspending him- why the hell does he have to lose his job? Gutless decision by the Mets. But go spew more bullshit about "integrity" Wilpons...your son fired a woman over getting pregnant. Scumbag family.
Are you not aware of how much attention this has already gotten from fans, media and players?
This is Black Sox bad. Worse than the PED era to people who don't cheat.
JFC...some of your are out of your mind. This team video-relayed the catchers pitch calls electronically to hitters or whatever. Something that is ALREADY DONE by baserunners with their eyes. And it's completely okay. Yes, I get the difference - but the intent is the same. But to compare this to the Black Sox scandal or an entire ERA of records tainted by illegal performance enhancing drugs is a bit off. Nah...way way off. Not even in the same stratosphere. So much outrage.
Trying to justify how "wrong" the wrongdoing is. "It's all cheating and bad, but this cheating is worse (because someone else did it). The other cheating I'm okay with (because I was part of it)." So indicative of where we are in this country.
Yeah. You’re wrong about it being just like stealing signs. They had devices attached to their body’s that would buzz to let them know what pitch was coming.
But please, give us another long diatribe about how this is, ‘indicative of where we are in this country’.
LMFAO.
The intent is the same...is it not?
RE: RE: Matt in SGS - that's all fair but this didn't have to happen Â
In this case, the Astros from the top down wanted to come up with a cheating scheme to tell hitters what pitch was coming in real time. And every pitch. That's waaaaaaaaay further than anything that has been seen before when a guy on 2nd can figure out the signs or a pitcher has a "tell".
Again, wait for the full report to come out. And even now with Beltran's niece blowing the doors off on Altuve and Bregman (which those 2 were specifically rumored as trusted team members). Go back and watch the home run and see how Altuve didn't want his jersey ripped off. This will haunt the Astros all season and I wouldn't be surprised to see them fold under this pressure. That was part of what the Mets would have to deal with just having Beltran around.
Completely agree that the Astros institutional corruption is way above and beyond, along with the impact of the type of cheating they were doing. Organizationally I wouldn't have had any issue with a far harsher punishment. Take away twice as many draft picks and it still seems light.
Beltran's role is where things get murky for me just because he was a player. Whether he was enthusiastic and important in helping devise the system is secondary to me. He was a player, and not even 1 those whose performance mattered. Yes this will linger over the Astros and Red Sox over the year, but that's because those organizations benefitted. The Mets organization was obviously uninvolved. Perhaps the entire scandal is too deep for Beltran to be completely honest, but IMO the punishment outweighs the crimes of his direct participation as we currently understand it.
Pete Blackburn
@PeteBlackburn
·
2m
I am Jordan Binnington's niece and I heard he wore a shoulder buzzer when the Bruins refused to score on him in the Stanley Cup Final
If George was still around it would be a certainty. He wouldn't be able to resist the chance to spite the Mets. As it is he's still a very good coach and he knows Houston.
Marly Rivera
@MarlyRiveraESPN
· 1h
The Beltrán family told me that this individual, who claims to be Carlos Beltrán's "niece", is not related to the family in any way. This person may or may not have additional information about the Houston Astros’ sign-stealing scandal, but they are not related to the Beltráns. https://twitter.com/Jomboy_/status
not for nothing, but MLB seems to be handling this thing like crap Â
no issue with them giving out immunity for candor, but if so they need to get to the bottom of this and put out what was done and by whom. I don't care if players don't get punished due to the players assoc., but there needs to be some transparency.
Pete Blackburn
@PeteBlackburn
·
2m
I am Jordan Binnington's niece and I heard he wore a shoulder buzzer when the Bruins refused to score on him in the Stanley Cup Final
That is pretty damn funny
RE: not for nothing, but MLB seems to be handling this thing like crap Â
no issue with them giving out immunity for candor, but if so they need to get to the bottom of this and put out what was done and by whom. I don't care if players don't get punished due to the players assoc., but there needs to be some transparency.
It is amazing that all of this stuff is coming out now after Beltran stepped down.
Especially since is the Mets? Who they love to rip on for EVERYTHING. And blow up the team stress no matter what.
And that is def the organizations fault for being so inept. But its where they are.
I personally don't want any avoidable media targets as a Mets fan. This team could be good.
I imagine any manager who doesn't have Mickey Callaway syndrome can help manage this team to competition.
And yeah, all these guys will probably surface as hot manager candidates in a year or two when this does down.
But it can never be in a NY Media market. come on, use your NY sports fan logic here. We all see how this goes every time in NY media land.
mantra of the MLB doesn't want to get into it with the MLBPA.
But why?
this seems big enough the MLBPA really has zero ground to stand on. this cheating scandal, while maybe technically not breaking a written rule (I mean is there a rule that said you can't bang a trashcan to indicate pitch type? - and the video equipment was in a legal place) - it's clearly cheating.
The league looks worse for not punishing the players. Not better.
Example: I intend to make money shorting a stock. If I pick a stock a to short using public information = legal. If I puck a stock because my friend works there and tips me off = prison.
Runner at second peeking at signs = legal. Employee off the field using telescopes, cameras, electronics and remote signaling devices = not legal.
It’s not rocket science.
RE: so.....what's taped to Josh Reddick's chest here? Â
Guys come on, this is turning into a witch hunt. Do some research before crying wolf. If you look anywhere on Twitter you can see other pictures where it shows it’s clearly a piece of wet confetti covering his necklace
RE: so.....what's taped to Josh Reddick's chest here? Â
no question about that. Apparently BVW and Jeff Wilpon just cut short a press conference about it, at which Carig says they essentially claimed they never asked Beltran about what his role was, just told him to cooperate with MLB and that they only found out when the article came out on the Athletic, like everyone else.
So in other words, their crisis strategy was:
RE: RE: so.....what's taped to Josh Reddick's chest here? Â
Guys come on, this is turning into a witch hunt. Do some research before crying wolf. If you look anywhere on Twitter you can see other pictures where it shows it’s clearly a piece of wet confetti covering his necklace
Rory: Is the reason Yankee fans are on the radio because they lost in hard fought close playoffs to the systemically cheating Astros? Isnt that more the fuel than any animus to the Mets who did nothing except maybe not enough due diligence on Beltran or they honorably took his word for it?
I don't know that's why imm asking. I don't dislike the Mets and don't understand the reverse take either
PhilPsi: You are aware your takes/bias and rationales are quite emotional? Or not?
Im going to guess that MLB cant go after the players so they are going hard after franchises and managers. Just a guess they called the Mets and said we aren't finished our investigation or punishments.
Sucks but right decision at this time. The Mets made a lof of good improvements and have a good team, one of the best of their recent teams...why distract the players and focus of the media on anything except how well the players are doing??
It may not have been smart to miss full due diligence on Beltran ( who was a guy who several teams including the Yankees wanted/hired back before all this) but this is a smart organizational move. Clears the decks for actually playing baseball
mantra of the MLB doesn't want to get into it with the MLBPA.
But why?
this seems big enough the MLBPA really has zero ground to stand on. this cheating scandal, while maybe technically not breaking a written rule (I mean is there a rule that said you can't bang a trashcan to indicate pitch type? - and the video equipment was in a legal place) - it's clearly cheating.
The league looks worse for not punishing the players. Not better.
The players do have a leg to stand on if the team was pushing the players to do this, which has basically been in the public record that they were from the highest levels for months now. I'm not a lawyer but whether the players were willing participants or not, wouldn't a person of authority providing the means and motivation to break rules basically be entrapment?
Quote:
A Houston Astros front-office executive reportedly suggested the use of cameras to steal signs in an email to scouts ahead of the 2017 MLB playoffs, The Athletic's Ken Rosenthal and Evan Drellich report.
The email, which was reportedly sent in August 2017, details the team's scouting plans prior to the playoffs.
"One thing in specific we are looking for is picking up signs coming out of the dugout,” the email, disclosed to The Athletic, read. “What we are looking for is how much we can see, how we would log things, if we need cameras/binoculars, etc. So go to game, see what you can (or can’t) do and report back your findings."
According to ESPN's Jeff Passan, the executive that sent the email is Kevin Goldstein, a special assistant to Houston general manager Jeff Luhnow.
That Beltran was highly regarded as a baseball help by players and organizations for years.
It might have been easy to assume he was the same old Beltran.
And he the person likely is. He was too close to the flames and im guessing here stonewalled higher ups that asked.
Natural when you are close to being named to your dream and you have contributed to baseball for so long.
All in all...missing his level of involvement is not a terrible mistake and terminating a major distraction before spring training when it would be a non stop media bombardment...smart organizational move that puts the players and fans first
but regardless of whether it's the correct decision or not the mets FO looks foolish as always. Hard for me to fathom how people who eat/breathe/live this stuff because it is their livelihood, compensated at a very high level, can act like they were only able to gather the same level of information as us morons on a message board. Or even the level of intel found by a reporter who probably makes 1/100th the amount of money of 10+ people in the FO who have official roles that provide access to pick up a phone and find out what happened. Or you know, go down the hall and ask Carlos some questions.
Making the excuse that they didn't know because they abdicated their responsibility to learn more in the last couple months is a failure unto itself.
nowhere in your link does it suggest they asked the players to do anything - it was scouts they asked according to the article - and in the MLB report it says it was a players meeting "including Carols Beltran" where the plan was discussed.
your take is very refreshing and enjoyable. As a Mets fan, I have the utmost respect for the tradition. There are knuckleheads on both sides.
The people who get screwed are the Mets fans. Whether investing with their wallets or hearts, it is gone beyond reasonable what this fan base has to endure.
nowhere in your link does it suggest they asked the players to do anything - it was scouts they asked according to the article - and in the MLB report it says it was a players meeting "including Carols Beltran" where the plan was discussed.
Are you suggesting it's a coincidence that:
1. the Houston FO wanted to engage in electronic sign stealing.
and then
2. the players (with a bench coach heavily involved) engaged in electronic sign stealing.
nowhere in your link does it suggest they asked the players to do anything - it was scouts they asked according to the article - and in the MLB report it says it was a players meeting "including Carols Beltran" where the plan was discussed.
Are you suggesting it's a coincidence that:
1. the Houston FO wanted to engage in electronic sign stealing.
and then
2. the players (with a bench coach heavily involved) engaged in electronic sign stealing.
??
I'm not suggesting anything other than what we know as facts and the MLB report probably would have mentioned the front office initiated it, and they made no such claims.
know what's wild? Kevin Goldstein privately broke the Beltran signing with the Mets news to me back in 2005.
Was he the same guy who used to send out those baseball prospect updates each day for Baseball Prospectus (or someone)?
Same guy, his Astros job was originally offered to Keith Law, Goldstein took it when Law declined. Always very nice and responsive to me when he had the newsletter.
Agree. It sucks and is unearned for Mets fans. But I think this path works out best for them. Sweep Atlanta or the Nationals and everyone will forget it!!
Rory: Is the reason Yankee fans are on the radio because they lost in hard fought close playoffs to the systemically cheating Astros? Isnt that more the fuel than any animus to the Mets who did nothing except maybe not enough due diligence on Beltran or they honorably took his word for it?
I don't know that's why imm asking. I don't dislike the Mets and don't understand the reverse take either
PhilPsi: You are aware your takes/bias and rationales are quite emotional? Or not?
Bill, it's a fair question. I'm sure that my responses do come off emotional at times but you can lump most the posters on the site in that group. My initial response was actually to another Mets fan, however.
I stayed away from these threads for a while because they fell into the predictable Mets fan/Yanks fan pissing match. But there's a lot of garbage on here, from both sides. Personally, I'm not as outraged by it but I can understand why Yankee fans would feel slighted by a possible missed opportunity.
But then I'm hearing that Cleveland (and apparently all other teams) knew that the Astros were doing this and the Indians would just change their signs. I'm not naive enough to believe that the league wasn't aware of this. They were. Or that other teams didn't know about it. They did. Or that plenty of other teams were also doing it. They were.
I'm sure plenty more information is going to come out. Should be interesting.
Yeah. You and I have seen the site when the rabid edges of the fan base made night after night "strikes" trolling the threads of the other team.
Its not a form of interaction in understand.
Now that the Mets are better ( the Yankees likely to be) there are reasons to brag and temptations to spread the emotions.
Hope our summer doesn't have a return to that ( and turbo charged for the NYG have not given any of us much in recent years).
As for this Beltran situation...its not an injury to a major player. Its not a change in how good a team you can field. I just don't think its a negative. Its an emotional suck and after years of bad luck we all tend to categorize sudden change as a loss ...but upon analysis I don't think it is.
Beltran really wanted to stay and tried to convince the Mets that he could take the heat and still do a good job. Mets were adamant about moving on.
This whole thing is a shame. I liked Carlos a ton and think he will make (or would have made) a good manager. But I do understand this. Mets are coming off a great second half and, other than Beltran, the enormous story has nothing to do with them.
I feel bad for Betances if him wanting to play for Beltran weighed in his decision to sign.
I feel genuinely sad for Carlos, but this is all avoided if he doesn’t cheat. Personally I’d see if Perez is interested. Otherwise maybe hire Collins for the year and do the search again next year, hopefully when Cohen is more involved.
Shame Fiers didn’t come clean before Girardi was passed on.
Beltran really wanted to stay and tried to convince the Mets that he could take the heat and still do a good job. Mets were adamant about moving on.
This whole thing is a shame. I liked Carlos a ton and think he will make (or would have made) a good manager. But I do understand this. Mets are coming off a great second half and, other than Beltran, the enormous story has nothing to do with them.
I feel bad for Betances if him wanting to play for Beltran weighed in his decision to sign.
I feel genuinely sad for Carlos, but this is all avoided if he doesn’t cheat. Personally I’d see if Perez is interested. Otherwise maybe hire Collins for the year and do the search again next year, hopefully when Cohen is more involved.
Shame Fiers didn’t come clean before Girardi was passed on.
Beltran really wanted to stay and tried to convince the Mets that he could take the heat and still do a good job. Mets were adamant about moving on.
ugh, stealing signs or not Mets just blew a huge opportunity to take control of the situation and are going to lose out on the manager who was going to bring this team to greatness.
Yet, players that are still on that Astros rosters go unscathed.
With all the outrage that is out there in the public over this whole thing, away fans better berate the Astros whenever they are on the road this year.
It's going to be hell on wheels for them in Yankee Stadium.
That Beltran was highly regarded as a baseball help by players and organizations for years.
It might have been easy to assume he was the same old Beltran.
And he the person likely is. He was too close to the flames and im guessing here stonewalled higher ups that asked.
Natural when you are close to being named to your dream and you have contributed to baseball for so long.
All in all...missing his level of involvement is not a terrible mistake and terminating a major distraction before spring training when it would be a non stop media bombardment...smart organizational move that puts the players and fans first
imo
+1. I don't see how this reflects badly on the Mets at all.
Only concern is the Mets though and what's going to happen on the field. Get a competent manager that isnt going to personally sabotage multiple games for us like we've been used to lately, and Ill still be happy and ready to kick off this season.
Astros report came out after he interviewed so unless the Mets knew before the public it's likely not the case.
He was only mentioned once in the report and you are a disingenuous piece of shit, because any time that fact was mentioned it was in response to fabricated claims that Beltran was a "ringleader" and by all accounts, including his apology, he was not.
Quote:
In comment 14782092 giantsFC said:
Quote:
In comment 14782082 TyreeHelmet said:
Quote:
To the people saying this was going to get ugly...exactly how? Would have blown over in a week. The Mets should know bad PR better than anyone.
MLB wasn't suspending him- why the hell does he have to lose his job? Gutless decision by the Mets. But go spew more bullshit about "integrity" Wilpons...your son fired a woman over getting pregnant. Scumbag family.
Are you not aware of how much attention this has already gotten from fans, media and players?
This is Black Sox bad. Worse than the PED era to people who don't cheat.
JFC...some of your are out of your mind. This team video-relayed the catchers pitch calls electronically to hitters or whatever. Something that is ALREADY DONE by baserunners with their eyes. And it's completely okay. Yes, I get the difference - but the intent is the same. But to compare this to the Black Sox scandal or an entire ERA of records tainted by illegal performance enhancing drugs is a bit off. Nah...way way off. Not even in the same stratosphere. So much outrage.
Trying to justify how "wrong" the wrongdoing is. "It's all cheating and bad, but this cheating is worse (because someone else did it). The other cheating I'm okay with (because I was part of it)." So indicative of where we are in this country.
Yeah. You’re wrong about it being just like stealing signs. They had devices attached to their body’s that would buzz to let them know what pitch was coming.
But please, give us another long diatribe about how this is, ‘indicative of where we are in this country’.
LMFAO.
The intent is the same...is it not?
In this case, the Astros from the top down wanted to come up with a cheating scheme to tell hitters what pitch was coming in real time. And every pitch. That's waaaaaaaaay further than anything that has been seen before when a guy on 2nd can figure out the signs or a pitcher has a "tell".
Again, wait for the full report to come out. And even now with Beltran's niece blowing the doors off on Altuve and Bregman (which those 2 were specifically rumored as trusted team members). Go back and watch the home run and see how Altuve didn't want his jersey ripped off. This will haunt the Astros all season and I wouldn't be surprised to see them fold under this pressure. That was part of what the Mets would have to deal with just having Beltran around.
Completely agree that the Astros institutional corruption is way above and beyond, along with the impact of the type of cheating they were doing. Organizationally I wouldn't have had any issue with a far harsher punishment. Take away twice as many draft picks and it still seems light.
Beltran's role is where things get murky for me just because he was a player. Whether he was enthusiastic and important in helping devise the system is secondary to me. He was a player, and not even 1 those whose performance mattered. Yes this will linger over the Astros and Red Sox over the year, but that's because those organizations benefitted. The Mets organization was obviously uninvolved. Perhaps the entire scandal is too deep for Beltran to be completely honest, but IMO the punishment outweighs the crimes of his direct participation as we currently understand it.
But, but, but....
Tiger Woods will never win another Major!
Iván B
@B15Ivan
·
26m
Has anyone ever wondered why players such as Urshela and Tauchman all of a sudden & randomly have their “breakout” years? Hmmm.
.. YanKees haven’t heard the last..
@PeteBlackburn
·
2m
I am Jordan Binnington's niece and I heard he wore a shoulder buzzer when the Bruins refused to score on him in the Stanley Cup Final
@MarlyRiveraESPN
· 1h
The Beltrán family told me that this individual, who claims to be Carlos Beltrán's "niece", is not related to the family in any way. This person may or may not have additional information about the Houston Astros’ sign-stealing scandal, but they are not related to the Beltráns. https://twitter.com/Jomboy_/status
@PeteBlackburn
·
2m
I am Jordan Binnington's niece and I heard he wore a shoulder buzzer when the Bruins refused to score on him in the Stanley Cup Final
That is pretty damn funny
It is amazing that all of this stuff is coming out now after Beltran stepped down.
Never thought that the Giants have their coch for next year and the Mets are blowing in the wind.
And that is def the organizations fault for being so inept. But its where they are.
I personally don't want any avoidable media targets as a Mets fan. This team could be good.
I imagine any manager who doesn't have Mickey Callaway syndrome can help manage this team to competition.
And yeah, all these guys will probably surface as hot manager candidates in a year or two when this does down.
But it can never be in a NY Media market. come on, use your NY sports fan logic here. We all see how this goes every time in NY media land.
But why?
this seems big enough the MLBPA really has zero ground to stand on. this cheating scandal, while maybe technically not breaking a written rule (I mean is there a rule that said you can't bang a trashcan to indicate pitch type? - and the video equipment was in a legal place) - it's clearly cheating.
The league looks worse for not punishing the players. Not better.
The intent is the same...is it not?
Sure. So what? Method matters.
Example: I intend to make money shorting a stock. If I pick a stock a to short using public information = legal. If I puck a stock because my friend works there and tips me off = prison.
Runner at second peeking at signs = legal. Employee off the field using telescopes, cameras, electronics and remote signaling devices = not legal.
It’s not rocket science.
Guys come on, this is turning into a witch hunt. Do some research before crying wolf. If you look anywhere on Twitter you can see other pictures where it shows it’s clearly a piece of wet confetti covering his necklace
Greg the gold part has been positively identify as confetti. The wire/chain, hard to say but it looks like a regular silver chain.
So in other words, their crisis strategy was:
Quote:
Guys come on, this is turning into a witch hunt. Do some research before crying wolf. If you look anywhere on Twitter you can see other pictures where it shows it’s clearly a piece of wet confetti covering his necklace
This appears to be accurate.
I don't know that's why imm asking. I don't dislike the Mets and don't understand the reverse take either
PhilPsi: You are aware your takes/bias and rationales are quite emotional? Or not?
Im going to guess that MLB cant go after the players so they are going hard after franchises and managers. Just a guess they called the Mets and said we aren't finished our investigation or punishments.
Sucks but right decision at this time. The Mets made a lof of good improvements and have a good team, one of the best of their recent teams...why distract the players and focus of the media on anything except how well the players are doing??
It may not have been smart to miss full due diligence on Beltran ( who was a guy who several teams including the Yankees wanted/hired back before all this) but this is a smart organizational move. Clears the decks for actually playing baseball
But why?
this seems big enough the MLBPA really has zero ground to stand on. this cheating scandal, while maybe technically not breaking a written rule (I mean is there a rule that said you can't bang a trashcan to indicate pitch type? - and the video equipment was in a legal place) - it's clearly cheating.
The league looks worse for not punishing the players. Not better.
The players do have a leg to stand on if the team was pushing the players to do this, which has basically been in the public record that they were from the highest levels for months now. I'm not a lawyer but whether the players were willing participants or not, wouldn't a person of authority providing the means and motivation to break rules basically be entrapment?
The email, which was reportedly sent in August 2017, details the team's scouting plans prior to the playoffs.
"One thing in specific we are looking for is picking up signs coming out of the dugout,” the email, disclosed to The Athletic, read. “What we are looking for is how much we can see, how we would log things, if we need cameras/binoculars, etc. So go to game, see what you can (or can’t) do and report back your findings."
According to ESPN's Jeff Passan, the executive that sent the email is Kevin Goldstein, a special assistant to Houston general manager Jeff Luhnow.
Astros Executive Suggested Scouts Use Cameras to Steal Signs - ( New Window )
It might have been easy to assume he was the same old Beltran.
And he the person likely is. He was too close to the flames and im guessing here stonewalled higher ups that asked.
Natural when you are close to being named to your dream and you have contributed to baseball for so long.
All in all...missing his level of involvement is not a terrible mistake and terminating a major distraction before spring training when it would be a non stop media bombardment...smart organizational move that puts the players and fans first
imo
Was he the same guy who used to send out those baseball prospect updates each day for Baseball Prospectus (or someone)?
Making the excuse that they didn't know because they abdicated their responsibility to learn more in the last couple months is a failure unto itself.
The people who get screwed are the Mets fans. Whether investing with their wallets or hearts, it is gone beyond reasonable what this fan base has to endure.
Are you suggesting it's a coincidence that:
1. the Houston FO wanted to engage in electronic sign stealing.
and then
2. the players (with a bench coach heavily involved) engaged in electronic sign stealing.
??
Buck Showalter
Dusty Baker
John Gibbons
Bruce Bochy
Terry Collins
Luis Rojas
Possibly
Eduardo Perez (other reports say he is no longer a candidate)
Robin Ventura
Todd Zeile
Basically he said the Mets are in a really really bad spot with 20 days to go before Spring Training opens.
Buck Showalter
Dusty Baker
John Gibbons
Bruce Bochy
Terry Collins
Luis Rojas
Possibly
Eduardo Perez (other reports say he is no longer a candidate)
Robin Ventura
Todd Zeile
Basically he said the Mets are in a really really bad spot with 20 days to go before Spring Training opens.
No love for Bam Bam? Will this be an interim position? Whoever it is will have to deal with having no say in terms of coaches.
Quote:
nowhere in your link does it suggest they asked the players to do anything - it was scouts they asked according to the article - and in the MLB report it says it was a players meeting "including Carols Beltran" where the plan was discussed.
Are you suggesting it's a coincidence that:
1. the Houston FO wanted to engage in electronic sign stealing.
and then
2. the players (with a bench coach heavily involved) engaged in electronic sign stealing.
??
I'm not suggesting anything other than what we know as facts and the MLB report probably would have mentioned the front office initiated it, and they made no such claims.
Quote:
know what's wild? Kevin Goldstein privately broke the Beltran signing with the Mets news to me back in 2005.
Was he the same guy who used to send out those baseball prospect updates each day for Baseball Prospectus (or someone)?
Same guy, his Astros job was originally offered to Keith Law, Goldstein took it when Law declined. Always very nice and responsive to me when he had the newsletter.
No.
I don't know that's why imm asking. I don't dislike the Mets and don't understand the reverse take either
PhilPsi: You are aware your takes/bias and rationales are quite emotional? Or not?
Bill, it's a fair question. I'm sure that my responses do come off emotional at times but you can lump most the posters on the site in that group. My initial response was actually to another Mets fan, however.
I stayed away from these threads for a while because they fell into the predictable Mets fan/Yanks fan pissing match. But there's a lot of garbage on here, from both sides. Personally, I'm not as outraged by it but I can understand why Yankee fans would feel slighted by a possible missed opportunity.
But then I'm hearing that Cleveland (and apparently all other teams) knew that the Astros were doing this and the Indians would just change their signs. I'm not naive enough to believe that the league wasn't aware of this. They were. Or that other teams didn't know about it. They did. Or that plenty of other teams were also doing it. They were.
I'm sure plenty more information is going to come out. Should be interesting.
Its not a form of interaction in understand.
Now that the Mets are better ( the Yankees likely to be) there are reasons to brag and temptations to spread the emotions.
Hope our summer doesn't have a return to that ( and turbo charged for the NYG have not given any of us much in recent years).
As for this Beltran situation...its not an injury to a major player. Its not a change in how good a team you can field. I just don't think its a negative. Its an emotional suck and after years of bad luck we all tend to categorize sudden change as a loss ...but upon analysis I don't think it is.
This whole thing is a shame. I liked Carlos a ton and think he will make (or would have made) a good manager. But I do understand this. Mets are coming off a great second half and, other than Beltran, the enormous story has nothing to do with them.
I feel bad for Betances if him wanting to play for Beltran weighed in his decision to sign.
I feel genuinely sad for Carlos, but this is all avoided if he doesn’t cheat. Personally I’d see if Perez is interested. Otherwise maybe hire Collins for the year and do the search again next year, hopefully when Cohen is more involved.
Shame Fiers didn’t come clean before Girardi was passed on.
This whole thing is a shame. I liked Carlos a ton and think he will make (or would have made) a good manager. But I do understand this. Mets are coming off a great second half and, other than Beltran, the enormous story has nothing to do with them.
I feel bad for Betances if him wanting to play for Beltran weighed in his decision to sign.
I feel genuinely sad for Carlos, but this is all avoided if he doesn’t cheat. Personally I’d see if Perez is interested. Otherwise maybe hire Collins for the year and do the search again next year, hopefully when Cohen is more involved.
Shame Fiers didn’t come clean before Girardi was passed on.
ugh, stealing signs or not Mets just blew a huge opportunity to take control of the situation and are going to lose out on the manager who was going to bring this team to greatness.
I truly believed we had turned the corner
With all the outrage that is out there in the public over this whole thing, away fans better berate the Astros whenever they are on the road this year.
It's going to be hell on wheels for them in Yankee Stadium.
It might have been easy to assume he was the same old Beltran.
And he the person likely is. He was too close to the flames and im guessing here stonewalled higher ups that asked.
Natural when you are close to being named to your dream and you have contributed to baseball for so long.
All in all...missing his level of involvement is not a terrible mistake and terminating a major distraction before spring training when it would be a non stop media bombardment...smart organizational move that puts the players and fans first
imo
He's a rookie manager whose credibility took a major hit before he ever even got to spring training.
Anyone who thinks this story was going away in a week is out of their minds. This wasn't going away anytime soon.
It would have been a distraction to the team. When you have zero experience, you're not going to survive this shit storm.
Would really like Buck at this point.