A trade would likely have the Miami Dolphins parting with a similar package as follows.
Cincinnati Bengals would receive:
2020 first-round pick (fifth overall)
2020 first-round pick (18th overall)
2020 second-round pick (39th overall)
2021 first-round pick
2021 third-round pick
Miami Dolphins would receive:
2020 first-round pick (first overall)
Report: Dolphins Trying to Acquire No. 1 Pick to Select Joe Burrow - (
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How? You say no, I'd rather have the young Aaron Rodgers, or Brett Favre (I'm not even sure who is the best comp for Burrow, but as a prospect he's on the level of Andrew Luck).
You have to consider it, but Burrow is a franchise-altering player. Who cares if you have all those picks when you don't have a franchise QB that can take your team to the playoffs - year in, year out.
Further, if your backup plan is Tua, you're going to probably have to move back up and trade some of those picks you just got to Detroit or NYG, to get the 2nd best guy.
If you believe in Tua, perhaps you do it. But that's an awfully massive risk for a team that just needs to solve that position and is desperate to become a legitimate contender, something they haven't been since THE EIGHTIES.
If I'm Cincinatti, I just take Burrow.
Joe goes to Cincinnati. Tua will go to Miami at #2. Detroit will field offers when they're on the clock, as well.
It's crazy, but I think the Giants are still in the Chase Young sweepstakes.
For years I was a big backer of the Eli trade, but in hindsight that trade was so close to not working out, given the way Eli's career developed. I don't know that I would every want to do a trade like that again, even for a prospect as good as Burrow. I'm not sure you have to reach for "your" QB anymore.
If you think that's a lot, remember RG III netted the Rams three firsts and a second to move the same number of spots, and that was to #2. He was the 2nd best QB prospect in that draft.
And I know, you're going to say, "well, the Redskins are a joke." Well, I agree with you...but when you consider the actual return in the players selected by the Rams, they didn't get much out of all those picks. Of course, the Redskins didn't either, but they might've had they not pushed a clearly injured Griffin to play.
So yeah, if you have the conviction that Burrow is a Super Bowl winning-type of franchise QB, that comp is not too much.
You don't. 3 1st's, a 2nd and a 3rd to move up 4 spots for a QB who had one fabulous year with the greatest college OL arguably ever? If that was a real offer, it would already be done.
If you think that's a lot, remember RG III netted the Rams three firsts and a second to move the same number of spots, and that was to #2. He was the 2nd best QB prospect in that draft.
And I know, you're going to say, "well, the Redskins are a joke." Well, I agree with you...but when you consider the actual return in the players selected by the Rams, they didn't get much out of all those picks. Of course, the Redskins didn't either, but they might've had they not pushed a clearly injured Griffin to play.
So yeah, if you have the conviction that Burrow is a Super Bowl winning-type of franchise QB, that comp is not too much.
How can you assume anything about the next 15 years? Who of us saw the last eight years of Eli's career being an abject disaster?
I think if you're mapping beyond four years you're making a mistake.
Yup. Or Fromm. Lots of options and that’s a ton of picks to work with. Have to take it.
No way.
There may be more QB's being developed now but do you want someone that can be a Dalton or just a "starter" or do you want someone that can win you a championship? There are teams that have waited decades for "the" QB and are still waiting.
[slaps Eric’s ass]
Atta boy!
You would be getting two more #1s, a #2, and #3 for dropping down four spots.
And don't give me the "they have so many holes to fill how can they not do that deal?" crap.
It's unlikely Cincy will be picking #1 overall again anytime soon. If they have the chance to get their franchise QB then they should stay put.
(And when they do let it be a lesson to the "our team can always trade up for the top QB" crowd. Note: No. You can't always trade up if the other team isn't interested in trading the pick.)
What? The guy has accomplished nothing in the NFL yet. There’s no way he’s worth that.
Would have been more impressive with a gas mask.
Say, it’s Herbert. It would be wild if they fueled some reports about Burrow, Burrow, Burrow and someone called to come up. Say, Miami.
Before they pull the trigger, they get ahold of the Lions and/or Giants to inquire about coming up to their spot, if they were to fall back.
So, just to throw shit on the wall.
Bengals deal down to Miami at 5, and acquire 2 2020 1sts, 2021 1st, 2020 2nd and 2021 3rd.
Quickly get a deal in place with the Lions sending them #5 and the addl first this year, along with a 3rd.
In the end, they get their guy, hypothetically Herbert, a 2nd this year, in place of their 3rd and a 1st and 3rd next year
If they are absolutely in love with the QB, I would not discount it.
If they are absolutely in love with the QB, I would not discount it.
I can see that as well and I can also see the Bengals taking that great offer to fill a lot of holes. Then they could either tank next year for Lawrence or use their additional #1 to move up and get him.
I think he’s kind of boom or bust. He certainly has it when he is out of the pocket.
If they are absolutely in love with the QB, I would not discount it.
The play caller went to Carolina, not Miami. So it would be Carolina that would need to move up to #1, and I think they pick 7th.
Not saying there is truth to it, but rumors were that Denver was offering its 2019 First Round pick to move up from 5 to 2 to select Darnold (and leapfrog the Jets).
No way.
That's an Evan Engrams haul right there.
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Its possible someone was trying to offer us a similar haul two years ago for number 2 but Gettleman wouldn't pick up
Not saying there is truth to it, but rumors were that Denver was offering its 2019 First Round pick to move up from 5 to 2 to select Darnold (and leapfrog the Jets).
I think Cleveland also offered both their second round picks to move from #4 to #2.
I agree and I’m all about going all in for the qb. But man that’s a lot. Compare that to what nyg gave up for Eli, it’s not even close.
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In comment 14782676 Blue Dream said:
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Its possible someone was trying to offer us a similar haul two years ago for number 2 but Gettleman wouldn't pick up
Not saying there is truth to it, but rumors were that Denver was offering its 2019 First Round pick to move up from 5 to 2 to select Darnold (and leapfrog the Jets).
I think Cleveland also offered both their second round picks to move from #4 to #2.
But they got somebody’s voicemail...
You know like 200+ other guys are drafted after the #1 pick and I have heard some of them know how to play...
How did that work out for Washington?
The Giants never recovered, and it set the Chargers up as a multi-championship Dynasty.
That's why you don't do that shit.
For years I was a big backer of the Eli trade, but in hindsight that trade was so close to not working out, given the way Eli's career developed. I don't know that I would every want to do a trade like that again, even for a prospect as good as Burrow. I'm not sure you have to reach for "your" QB anymore.
They arent making great QBs. The NFL has made it impossible to play pass D. Other than Burrow the rest of the QBs are a crap shoot.
Look at the ball placement...guy was making NFL throws into tight coverage. Yes, he had great talent around him, but he made those guys look just as good as they made him look.
He has the total package. I just don't see how he can bust. He has the makeup, the scrambling ability, the prototypical size, the instincts, and the accuracy to be a high-end NFL starter.
To me, all the risk is with the QBs not named Burrow. If there is truth to this rumor, there is a reason they are willing to part with that kind of haul when they could just as easily get any of those other QBs you are talking about.
The most physically talented QB in the draft is easily Herbert. If a coach/team can can get his mental part right, which will be the challenge, the sky is the limit...
How did that work out for Washington?
So no trade ups for Burrow because of the Redskins and their handling of RG3?
How did that work out for Washington?
Did you for one second think about what you wrote before you hit “submit”?
I laughed
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then tank the entire season and draft Trevor Lawrence in 2021.
I laughed
Was he joking? Because it would fit the five year model that so many on BBI were selling as far as rebuilds go.
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In comment 14782865 CT Charlie said:
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then tank the entire season and draft Trevor Lawrence in 2021.
I laughed
Was he joking? Because it would fit the five year model that so many on BBI were selling as far as rebuilds go.
Tomato TomAhto
The most physically talented QB in the draft is easily Herbert. If a coach/team can can get his mental part right, which will be the challenge, the sky is the limit...
As usual, your take is awful. First, putting Lawrence ahead of Burrow is splitting hairs. So if you have the rare opportunity to get your franchise QB this year, sitting at 1, why would you roll the dice, wait another year to simply have a chance at Lawrence, when all you have to do is take the layup and get Burrow this year?
And Herbert, while physically gifted, is less accurate than Burrow, has a longer throwing motion than Burrow, is slower than Burrow running, so you think Herbert is the guy because what? He's two inches taller and maybe can throw the ball 10 yards farther?
Just look at this throw:
https://youtu.be/x2dnemsUZDA?t=78
That's an opposite hash throw, tight coverage, to the sideline shoulder, 42 yards downfield. He has swag, he's a champion, he's a fiery competitor, Joe Burrow is EVERYTHING you want. He just put up the greatest statistical season a QB has EVER produced. This guy just threw for 5,671 yards in 15 games. ABSURD level of production, and did so with 10.8 yards / ATTEMPT and at a completion percentage of 76.3% and you think the Bengals, who have longed for a long-term, LEGIT answer at QB for as impossibly long as they have, and you want them to wait a year and hope, or drop and take a guy you hope you can fix?
No dude. That's atrocious decision-making, and complete malpractice.
I don't care about the 1-year stuff. He put it together this year, won every game, won the Heisman, put up THOSE numbers, and has THOSE tools...he's going to end up with an extremely high grade...well over 80.
What do you want in a QB? Accuracy is probably #1, Joe Burrow has it in spades. Competitor, winner...check, big-time. Can move in the pocket, has pocket presence, evades defenders, can throw on the run and off-schedule throws with accuracy...check. Doesn't turn the ball over, check.
Highly productive, check. Leader, confidence, check. Size, check. Technical thrower, check.
What are you dinging Burrow on? Arm strength? It's not even a real deficiency, he has plenty of arm, it's not Josh Allen but he has plenty enough.
Justin Herbert might be a great NFL QB, but Burrow is so much more of a sure thing. The Bengals should absolutely not look this gift horse in the mouth, and I don't think they're dumb enough to let this opportunity pass them by.
If they are absolutely in love with the QB, I would not discount it.
Eric-- what are you talking about? This is Miami trying to trade up, not Carolina.
How did that work out for Washington?
What on earth? This comparison is bad.
Cincy is not that idiotic. No franchise is.
You would have 5 of the top 39 picks This draft
+1. .... every year there’s a college QB that blows everyone away as a can’t miss pro ... yet sometimes they do. Burrow looks really strong in every aspect but remember the guy he just passed for most TDs in a single season is named Colt Brennan. Cindy will get pounded in Ohio if they don’t take the hometown hero but I still call Carolina first and see what the college coaches would offer.
I simply said he was the most physically gifted QB. And he is. He’s bigger, faster, stronger arm, etc. He’s 6’6”, runs like a deer (he may run 4.5), and has a great arm. But then I said he needs someone to help with the mental part. So I would take Burrow right now. If someone can figure Herbert out - and that’s a big if - the dividend could be great.
But this is about trade capital. Which is the point of the thread. If Miami gives the Bengals that package of picks, Cincy should jump all over it. And live to fight another day to find a QB. Maybe next year with Lawrence.
Lawrence is a great QB prospect. Tremendous. Burrow isn’t in in the same zip code physically. He’s three years younger than Burrow. He’s also bigger, faster, stronger arm. And he’s got the football acumen. Burrow has a chance to be an very good NFL QB. So this is no knock against him. It’s just that Lawrence has the physical gifts to be the next Elway. So you should always bet on that...
Key word in your sentence “potential” for a box of draft picks that are also “potential”
I simply said he was the most physically gifted QB. And he is. He’s bigger, faster, stronger arm, etc. He’s 6’6”, runs like a deer (he may run 4.5), and has a great arm. But then I said he needs someone to help with the mental part. So I would take Burrow right now. If someone can figure Herbert out - and that’s a big if - the dividend could be great.
But this is about trade capital. Which is the point of the thread. If Miami gives the Bengals that package of picks, Cincy should jump all over it. And live to fight another day to find a QB. Maybe next year with Lawrence.
Lawrence is a great QB prospect. Tremendous. Burrow isn’t in in the same zip code physically. He’s three years younger than Burrow. He’s also bigger, faster, stronger arm. And he’s got the football acumen. Burrow has a chance to be an very good NFL QB. So this is no knock against him. It’s just that Lawrence has the physical gifts to be the next Elway. So you should always bet on that...
It's not just about physical gifts. If the prospects all have warts, and similar grades, sure, I'm betting on the guy with the superior physical gifts. But Burrow doesn't have warts. He's a guy you can trust the franchise to.
BTW, you think Herbert is faster than Burrow? I'll take that bet. At any rate, football speed, watching them both run, Burrow has faster acceleration and I'd bet you he has faster top speed as well.
Burrow is going to grade out extremely high. Lawrence is going to grade out extremely high. You don't say a prayer and hope you can get Lawrence next year when you have an elite QB prospect this year and all you have to do is take him.
I agree. Have to factor in that he’s only a sophomore of course, but he honestly looked a bit worse this season than last. Still a great prospect but he’ll need to tick up a bit next year before I buy that he’s the best prospect since Elway or Peyton or whoever.
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But he’s a 5th year player, didn’t attend classes, older than Daniel Jones, Lamar Jackson, ... basically a first year pro playing in college. And if you watch the Clemson game, it came down to #1 beating #8man to man leading to 21points. Not sure he’s the next Andrew luck or a 1year wonder. I take the trade.
+1. .... every year there’s a college QB that blows everyone away as a can’t miss pro ... yet sometimes they do. Burrow looks really strong in every aspect but remember the guy he just passed for most TDs in a single season is named Colt Brennan. Cindy will get pounded in Ohio if they don’t take the hometown hero but I still call Carolina first and see what the college coaches would offer.
Come on. There is no comparison between Colt Brennan and Joe Burrow. None. Brennan played against Hawaii in an offense that was completely spread out and barely ran the ball, with a lot of short passing and he threw a lot of interceptions. Brennan played for Hawaii in the WAC and barely played any good competition, losing when they did.
And Brennan was a 6TH ROUND PICK. The entire NFL knew he was a system QB in a system that wasn't going to translate.
Burrow is way more than his stats. You can't pick out one fact, that Brennan wasn't a great NFL player and that's whose record he broke, and act like that has any meaning. You are ignoring all context. Burrow is going to go #1 in the NFL draft, and you are comparing him to a 6th round pick that played for Hawaii. Burrow just completed a season where he defeated SEVEN top 10 teams. Not just ranked teams, TOP TEN teams. The fact that Burrow broke Brennan's record with that SEC schedule and the way he did, and superior statistical performances in all other measures...completion %, 10-1 TD to INT...it's just dominant.
His game is going to translate. No prospect has zero bust potential. But his risk of busting is so small, like Peyton Manning small. Daniel Jeremiah says he just had the most impressive QB season of any QB he has ever seen, and he said he spoke with Kevin Faulk, the director of player development at LSU and of course former Patriots RB. Faulk has been telling scouts that Burrow is Tom Brady. Except obviously, Burrow has wheels.
Most of those Hawaii June Jones offenses, were literally spreading the ball out and attempting a ridiculous amount of throws. Same thing with Mike Leach...look at the passing yards and pass attempts from some of those offenses vs what LSU was doing this year. Throw the stats out of the window, and watch the games..watch the type of throws the offfenses ask the quarterback to make...absolutely no comparison at all. Burrow was throwing 40 yard dimes all year, and putting them right on the receiver against one of the hardest schedules college football had to offer...a far cry from the gantlet of teams Hawaii faced. Some really bad takes on this thread.
It's not just about physical gifts. If the prospects all have warts, and similar grades, sure, I'm betting on the guy with the superior physical gifts. But Burrow doesn't have warts. He's a guy you can trust the franchise to.
BTW, you think Herbert is faster than Burrow? I'll take that bet. At any rate, football speed, watching them both run, Burrow has faster acceleration and I'd bet you he has faster top speed as well.
Burrow is going to grade out extremely high. Lawrence is going to grade out extremely high. You don't say a prayer and hope you can get Lawrence next year when you have an elite QB prospect this year and all you have to do is take him.
If Cincinnati takes Burrow I wouldn't criticize the pick. But if you assume the speculation of the linked article by the OP, that's an enormous freight Cincy would get back for trading the top pick. Freight that could potentially set them up very nicely for the future and help solve a lot of their needs.
Look, the college pipeline of QBs is pretty good these next few years. Next year you'll likely have Lawrence, Fields, Daniels (SC), Ehlinger, etc.
And then in 2022, you'll likely see Sam Howell (who I love out of UNC), Slovis (good freshman season filling in at SC), Daniels, etc.
So there are going to be other solutions for Cincy at QB if they don't take Burrow...
Burrow moves well for his size and position - true. He's crafty and pretty good short area quickness. But he isn't in the same straight speed class as Herbert. Herbert is going to run better than a lot of WRs in this draft.
No, Burrow was the LSU starting quarterback in 2018 as well. 2018 gets tossed out the window, because of the increase in his play this season from last. LSU abandoned their old school traditional offense and implemented the New Orleans Saints passing plays that Joe Brady brought in. So, for front offices, there will be some reconciliation between what they thought of 2018 Joe Burrow, and 2019 Joe Burrow. What I will say, is there are some that act as if Burrow wasn't a good player for LSU in 2018, reality is that LSU team won 10 games, and Burrow played his best football towards the end of the year, this was an offense, whose key players in 2019(Jefferson, Chase, Marshall, Edwards-Helaire) were 2 freshman and two sophomores in 2018, and Burrow had arrived in the summer to a new school, new teammates, new offense..and jumped into the SEC west and won 10 games, including a thrashing of top 5 Georgia and a bowl win. Like I said in another post, in his last 4 games of 2018 he averaged over 300 yards of total offense per game and 3tds, and over 67% completion..so he was trending up as the season went on, playing better and better down the stretch. Obviously, this year was insanity with his level of improvement, and the commitment to a new offensive identity certainly had a big impact on that.
2019 Fiesta bowl highlights.started with a pick 6/decleating and finished with 394yds 4tds - ( New Window )
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It's not just about physical gifts. If the prospects all have warts, and similar grades, sure, I'm betting on the guy with the superior physical gifts. But Burrow doesn't have warts. He's a guy you can trust the franchise to.
BTW, you think Herbert is faster than Burrow? I'll take that bet. At any rate, football speed, watching them both run, Burrow has faster acceleration and I'd bet you he has faster top speed as well.
Burrow is going to grade out extremely high. Lawrence is going to grade out extremely high. You don't say a prayer and hope you can get Lawrence next year when you have an elite QB prospect this year and all you have to do is take him.
If Cincinnati takes Burrow I wouldn't criticize the pick. But if you assume the speculation of the linked article by the OP, that's an enormous freight Cincy would get back for trading the top pick. Freight that could potentially set them up very nicely for the future and help solve a lot of their needs.
Look, the college pipeline of QBs is pretty good these next few years. Next year you'll likely have Lawrence, Fields, Daniels (SC), Ehlinger, etc.
And then in 2022, you'll likely see Sam Howell (who I love out of UNC), Slovis (good freshman season filling in at SC), Daniels, etc.
So there are going to be other solutions for Cincy at QB if they don't take Burrow...
Burrow moves well for his size and position - true. He's crafty and pretty good short area quickness. But he isn't in the same straight speed class as Herbert. Herbert is going to run better than a lot of WRs in this draft.
But Burrow is better than Herbert. If you think the kid is elite special, you don't trade him for any haul of picks. What's Mahomes worth? What's Manning worth? That is how you treat Joe Burrow..
But Burrow is better than Herbert. If you think the kid is elite special, you don't trade him for any haul of picks. What's Mahomes worth? What's Manning worth? That is how you treat Joe Burrow..
I agree. Right now Burrow is better than Herbert.
And I never said Cincinnati should take Herbert instead. But I wanted to raise the point that Herbert is a very talented prospect.
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It's not just about physical gifts. If the prospects all have warts, and similar grades, sure, I'm betting on the guy with the superior physical gifts. But Burrow doesn't have warts. He's a guy you can trust the franchise to.
BTW, you think Herbert is faster than Burrow? I'll take that bet. At any rate, football speed, watching them both run, Burrow has faster acceleration and I'd bet you he has faster top speed as well.
Burrow is going to grade out extremely high. Lawrence is going to grade out extremely high. You don't say a prayer and hope you can get Lawrence next year when you have an elite QB prospect this year and all you have to do is take him.
If Cincinnati takes Burrow I wouldn't criticize the pick. But if you assume the speculation of the linked article by the OP, that's an enormous freight Cincy would get back for trading the top pick. Freight that could potentially set them up very nicely for the future and help solve a lot of their needs.
Look, the college pipeline of QBs is pretty good these next few years. Next year you'll likely have Lawrence, Fields, Daniels (SC), Ehlinger, etc.
And then in 2022, you'll likely see Sam Howell (who I love out of UNC), Slovis (good freshman season filling in at SC), Daniels, etc.
So there are going to be other solutions for Cincy at QB if they don't take Burrow...
That cuts both ways. I see no reason to project guys out two years in the future, that is purely guessing, even more than the draft is already guessing. They could not improve. Holes in their skillsets could show. They could turn out to simply be above average college quarterbacks once you have two more years of games you've watched.
There are always going to be quarterbacks in the draft, but not all quarterbacks in the draft are solutions.
That cuts both ways. I see no reason to project guys out two years in the future, that is purely guessing, even more than the draft is already guessing. They could not improve. Holes in their skillsets could show. They could turn out to simply be above average college quarterbacks once you have two more years of games you've watched.
There are always going to be quarterbacks in the draft, but not all quarterbacks in the draft are solutions.
I get it.
But the trend is clear - it's getting easier and easier for QBs out of college to hit the ground running in the NFL.
I follow recruiting pretty closely. And it's amazing seeing how advanced these QBs are. The way these QBs are being prepared at younger ages gives them tremendous advantages.
Many of the best high schools in the country - IMG, Mater Dei, Aquinas, Gorman, etc - look like pro teams.
And as you know, the college game is more pass oriented than ever.
So while there are no guarantees, I feel better about the "hit rate" (to find a QB) more than ever...
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But Burrow is better than Herbert. If you think the kid is elite special, you don't trade him for any haul of picks. What's Mahomes worth? What's Manning worth? That is how you treat Joe Burrow..
I agree. Right now Burrow is better than Herbert.
And I never said Cincinnati should take Herbert instead. But I wanted to raise the point that Herbert is a very talented prospect.
for sure.. after seeming to be the possible #1 or #2 in 2019 his stock dropped. Some were saying out of the first round. Now his stock is rising precipitously, with many mocks have him go to San Diego at #6.
As a buddy of mine likes to say, QB prospects are like new tech stocks, rising and falling on whims. Herbert could be real good, I agree.
Those extra picks look fantastic...but what do they turn into? Players get drafted, are busts, get hurt etc......
There's one player that's most important on every football team. It's the QB.