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NFT: Knicks/Suns chat: NBA Finals preview?

bceagle05 : 1/16/2020 8:02 pm
Well, maybe in 5-10 years. Knicks up three early. Morris and Ntilikina are back. Let's get a win.
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RE: Frank  
bceagle05 : 1/16/2020 10:09 pm : link
In comment 14782851 XBRONX said:
Quote:
and Knox. Two shit draft choices.

Yep. We haven't gotten nearly enough out of these high picks. Wasted the KP pick and whiffed on Frank and Knox. RJ looks solid. We needed two legit pieces out of those four, and we may only have one.
brandon ingram earning himself a max contract  
nygiants16 : 1/16/2020 10:37 pm : link
to bad he is restricted
Once they made the decision to trade Porzingas  
Vanzetti : 1/17/2020 12:02 am : link
It was committing to another two years of rebuild

Trade whatever vets you can. Stockpile picks. Even if they are seconds

They have to stick to the plan. Worst thing that can happen is if Perry and Mills try to save their jobs by signing some second tier free agents just to make the playoffs
Mitch is a great pick  
Vanzetti : 1/17/2020 12:05 am : link
To get a guy like that in the second round is outstanding

Knox is not awful. He will be a solid rotation guy who plays ten years in the NBA

Frank is a waste. Ditto for DSJR so far
I am frustrated as I have ever been  
GMEN46 : 1/17/2020 12:44 am : link
But the reality is all of the young players that frustrate us are in essence what should be sophomores or juniors in college playing in the nba. Unless your an absolute star itís takes 4-6 years to show your upside when you start at such a young age. Am I saying Knox, Frank, Mitch or Barrett are future stars, absolutely not, but the fans, the media and social media are the reasons teams are forced to give up on young players who end up being good players. Markelle Fultz and andrew wiggins are perfect examples. Wiggins was hyped as the next Lebron and struggled when he entered the league because he was 19. He gets ripped in the media for 4 years as a 19-23 year old. Guess what he is now 24/almost 25 and playing much better. Certainly plenty of room for improvement, but I bet in 2 years when he is only 27/28 he will be an all star with at least 7 more prime years.

Markelle Fultz, traded him for nothing and gave up on him. Again social media and analysts killed this guy and the young age of 19,20 and 21. He will turn 22 later this year and is showing some real signs of why he was taken number. Again he has plenty to Improve, but he is in essence a college senior who single handly beat the lakers the other night with a great all around game. In 3 years how good can he be, I bet philly wished they had waited to find out.

Bottom line is we are killing kevin Knox who does not turn 21 until August of this year. He should be a junior in college and has all the traits athletically that you look for I a small forward, reasonable form on his shot, but has struggled with confidence and scoring this year. From the eye test the rebounding has improved and the effort in defense has improved. Albeit it has a ways to go. Seems to be a hard working, good kid who is a little tentative right now. Knicks should not give up on him, letís see where he is at 2 years from now at the young age of 22.

Mitch Robinson is 21 years old by age, but seems to have the maturity of a 14 year old. When he speaks in post game interviews, I can tell that he is not the smartest guy in the world. But again 21 with crazy talent. We have 2 more years to see where he can get to at minimal cost. Letís remember he did not play a minute of college basketball, missed a whole year prior to the nba of playing competitive ball and is already performing some nights at an elite level. He is getting better with the normal growing pains. Letís see what this kid can do 2 years from now when he is 23/24.

Lastly my boy Frankie. Certainly frustrating at times, but the reality is he is 21 years old playing in the nba with no college experience. His fg % as of right now is up 6 percent from last year to just under 40 percent and his 3 point % is up 4 percent from last year at just under 33%. His free throw % is just under 87 percent. His form on his shot is solid, need to learn how to be consistent with his lower body when he shoots. He is solid defensively and plays hard. He is 21 and improving. He certainly is not going to be a super star, but I still think he can improve and become a 12-5-5 type guy with very good defense and eventually shoot 3ís at an effective rate. We have him for the rest of this year and next, this team is going nowhere so there is no sense in trading him.

I donít think anyone has given up on RJ yet so I am not going to write anything about him.

Bottom line is the team is frustrating to watch but some of these vets need to go at the trade deadline and let the young guys get the minutes for the last 30-40 games. The only free agent besides Davis worthy of targeting in my opinion is Van fleet. Let Payton walk and try to sign van fleet and let frank come off the bench as backup next year. Letís see what these guys can do with another offseason of growth. Hire some respectable basketball minds and let them figure out what to do with the young guys after next season.
RE: Once they made the decision to trade Porzingas  
nygiants16 : 1/17/2020 6:41 am : link
In comment 14782950 Vanzetti said:
Quote:
It was committing to another two years of rebuild

Trade whatever vets you can. Stockpile picks. Even if they are seconds

They have to stick to the plan. Worst thing that can happen is if Perry and Mills try to save their jobs by signing some second tier free agents just to make the playoffs


Bullshit, Mills and Perry did not spend 70 million laat offseason with the idea of tanking again..

If tanking was thr plan they would of used cap space to trade for draft picks..

I dont want to hear this was the plan
NY Giants  
Pete44 : 1/17/2020 9:03 am : link
The only person that would be worse running the Knicks is you. There is zero way they should be trading for Andre Drummond. The Knicks need shooters and playmakers to surround RJ Barrett and Mitchel Robinson.
RE: NY Giants  
nygiants16 : 1/17/2020 9:11 am : link
In comment 14783102 Pete44 said:
Quote:
The only person that would be worse running the Knicks is you. There is zero way they should be trading for Andre Drummond. The Knicks need shooters and playmakers to surround RJ Barrett and Mitchel Robinson.


I was half kidding when i wrote that..

And i ahve been saying on every single thread to get shooters to surround barrett..

i love how you cherry pick 1 post, rather than looking at all the others where i said get shooters..
and can we stop with players need 4 or 5 years  
nygiants16 : 1/17/2020 9:14 am : link
Devin Booker came into the league as a 19 year old was a bench player at kentucky and is npw a suoerstar..

He has not had any great coaching, 4 different coaches in 4 years..

It does not take 4 years for a player to show what he can do..

Frank is in his 3rd yesr and not shown anything, what has he improved?

Knox has not shown any improvement from last year, nothing..

Jimmy Butler was a 2nd round pick and by year 3 was a 30 minute a night player..
I agree...  
Jan in DC : 1/17/2020 9:15 am : link
the Front Office did not think that this would be a tank season. They thought they'd develop these young players and sign a bunch of role players looking for bigger paydays to casual deals with the idea of maintaining flexibility.

And the one player that could bring us some assets, Morris, they don't want to trade because he said some nice things about the org.

It's a dumpster fire and should be treated as such. The only people worth keeping on this team is Mitch and RJ. Everyone else is a placeholder.
and at this point i dont even know if mitch is worth it  
nygiants16 : 1/17/2020 9:17 am : link
He plays as stupid as he did when he first started playing last year..

He has added nothing to his game and he still has no idea how to play the game of basketball, it is all athleticism..
RE: NY Giants  
nygiants16 : 1/17/2020 9:20 am : link
In comment 14783102 Pete44 said:
Quote:
The only person that would be worse running the Knicks is you. There is zero way they should be trading for Andre Drummond. The Knicks need shooters and playmakers to surround RJ Barrett and Mitchel Robinson.


and it is funny you say knicks need to add shooters, and rip my post..

Funny i added 2 shooters and more spacing with a playmakiny point guard who can shoot and moved barrett to the 3..

Only thing you didnt like is drummond instead of mitch
NY GIants  
Pete44 : 1/17/2020 9:45 am : link
I'm just joking with you, love your passion.

I'm as frustrated as you are, I have zero answers, except that Mills needs to be gone and a real basketball guy needs to run things. Perry might be a decent scout, not even sure about that.

The only true keeper on the team is Barrett. You are actually very on the mark about the basketball IQ of Knox and Robinson.

At this point, I just want them to play the younger guys, I know you disagree, but look at Brandon Ingram, took him time to develop, so you have to hope that Knox can develop too.
RE: NY GIants  
nygiants16 : 1/17/2020 9:51 am : link
In comment 14783167 Pete44 said:
Quote:
I'm just joking with you, love your passion.

I'm as frustrated as you are, I have zero answers, except that Mills needs to be gone and a real basketball guy needs to run things. Perry might be a decent scout, not even sure about that.

The only true keeper on the team is Barrett. You are actually very on the mark about the basketball IQ of Knox and Robinson.

At this point, I just want them to play the younger guys, I know you disagree, but look at Brandon Ingram, took him time to develop, so you have to hope that Knox can develop too.


brandon ingram his 2nd year averaged 16 and 5 and shot 47%..

You want to say his 3 point jumper has greatly improved absolutely but he is probably a 20 ppg scorer last year if lebron does not sign there..
ďStick to the planĒ  
TyreeHelmet : 1/17/2020 9:53 am : link
You canít be that naive can you?

I have no idea how fans can defend Perry. The guy hasnít been a part of a winning team in 13 seasons. Thatís hard to accomplish. And Mills has never been a part of a winning season in all his time with the Knicks. Unprecedented losing from these 2.

If they refuse to trade Morris, conservatively the Knicks will have passed on 3 future 1st round picks( could have been more with a competent GM) since the summer. And for what? To put together this dogshit roster. They are completely clueless on how to run a team.
perry and mills  
nygiants16 : 1/17/2020 9:59 am : link
have gone for high upside with little production thinking they could get the most out of players and it has failed miserably..

They picked knox who i was a fan of because he outplayed some players in 3 on 3..

Mitch who i think has a placr in the league but will be severely limited because his bbiq is so low, was drafted because he was extremely high upside..His athleticism keeps him from being a complete bust..

Trier plays one side of the court and even that is average unless he can take 20 shots a game..

as you can tell i hate stupid players  
nygiants16 : 1/17/2020 10:04 am : link
..
Robinson - NY GIants  
Pete44 : 1/17/2020 10:12 am : link
If Mitch turns into Clint Capella, that is a win.

The Knicks have never drafted well or have always been one pick away. Chuck Person vs. Kenny Walker.

I love RJ Barrett, but Ja Morant is going to be as superstar. Bad Luck.

Did you the Knicks passed up Larry Bird to pick Michael Ray Richardson.

The poor drafting goes way way back. I'm aging myself.
You can tell who works on this team  
ghost718 : 1/17/2020 10:14 am : link
Robinson and Knox seem content with what they do.

Frank might be coming along slow,but you see signs offensively.I believe more patience is required with him.
If RJ's out a few games  
bceagle05 : 1/17/2020 10:24 am : link
who's ready for the Payton/Bullock/Morris/Randle/Taj starting lineup?
RE: If RJ's out a few games  
Pete44 : 1/17/2020 10:28 am : link
In comment 14783238 bceagle05 said:
Quote:
who's ready for the Payton/Bullock/Morris/Randle/Taj starting lineup?


#unwatchable - will make me miss the days of Clarence Weatherspoon and Othella Harrington.
The best news for the Knicks this season  
bceagle05 : 1/17/2020 10:37 am : link
is that NBA television ratings are down. Maybe that will prompt Adam Silver to clean up the mess at MSG - see if Ujiri is interested and facilitate a deal that makes sense.
RE: If RJ's out a few games  
TyreeHelmet : 1/17/2020 10:38 am : link
In comment 14783238 bceagle05 said:
Quote:
who's ready for the Payton/Bullock/Morris/Randle/Taj starting lineup?


ďRebuildingĒ.
Desperately need to find shooters this summer.  
bceagle05 : 1/17/2020 10:47 am : link
Davis Bertans, Joe Harris, Malik Beasley - there are guys out there who can help and won't break the bank, but Mills/Perry will opt to overpay a "name" like Drummond or give out one-year deals to scrubs to "maintain flexibility" for all the stars who will ignore us in 2021.
RE: The best news for the Knicks this season  
TyreeHelmet : 1/17/2020 11:03 am : link
In comment 14783272 bceagle05 said:
Quote:
is that NBA television ratings are down. Maybe that will prompt Adam Silver to clean up the mess at MSG - see if Ujiri is interested and facilitate a deal that makes sense.


Sad thing is even if the Knicks get Masai or Presti, they are still years away from being good. And if Mills and Perry are given another offseason- Iím taking a full break from this team.

I know itís not the Knicks fault but man does he hurt missing out on Morant. He has MVP talent and would have been perfect for them. Damn shame.
RE: Desperately need to find shooters this summer.  
Enzo : 1/17/2020 11:09 am : link
In comment 14783295 bceagle05 said:
Quote:
Davis Bertans, Joe Harris, Malik Beasley - there are guys out there who can help and won't break the bank, but Mills/Perry will opt to overpay a "name" like Drummond or give out one-year deals to scrubs to "maintain flexibility" for all the stars who will ignore us in 2021.

I'd target Harris and Bogdanović. But neither will come cheap IMO.
Nygiants16  
GMEN46 : 1/17/2020 11:11 am : link
The proof is in the stats. His fg % is up 6 percent, 3 point shooting up 4 % and free throw shooting up 10 %. Whose to say he isnít up to 42 %/ 36% and 80% next year as a 22 year old. He needs time. Devin Booker is a terrible comparison. He was a lights out shooter naturally. If you recall I wanted the Knicks to trade down for booker during the porzingis draft. And just in case anyone forgot I was calling for d mitchell over Frank. So my ability to recognize talent is strong as many of you already know.
How About Stephen Curry?  
Samiam : 1/17/2020 11:14 am : link
Werent they one pick away from him and they ended up with that meh forward from Arizona with the long hair?

Do the Knicks have a plan now? Certainly not a good one or a long term one. I donít understand bringing in these veterans on one year deals unless theyíll be traded but except for Morris, how much value do they gave? If youíre going to lose, and they will lose playing the kids extensively. The point above about the young kids is valid. No point in keeping Knox or Frank or DSJ on the bench
RE: RE: The best news for the Knicks this season  
nygiants16 : 1/17/2020 11:18 am : link
In comment 14783311 TyreeHelmet said:
Quote:
In comment 14783272 bceagle05 said:


Quote:


is that NBA television ratings are down. Maybe that will prompt Adam Silver to clean up the mess at MSG - see if Ujiri is interested and facilitate a deal that makes sense.



Sad thing is even if the Knicks get Masai or Presti, they are still years away from being good. And if Mills and Perry are given another offseason- Iím taking a full break from this team.

I know itís not the Knicks fault but man does he hurt missing out on Morant. He has MVP talent and would have been perfect for them. Damn shame.


without the amojnt of cap space and flexibility and the picks i think a competent gm can turn this around rather quickly..

But the knicks do not have that and will never have that
the Knicks and their fansd  
djm : 1/17/2020 11:18 am : link
are scarred for life when it comes to dishing out max deals or going all in on greatness. They got burned by Stat, to an extent. Got burned by Melo's second contrac here, to some extent, really not even as bad as Stat, but they got roasted prior to that.

Just go out and get good and great fucking players. Do what the Lakers do. Throw caution to the wind IF and only IF the ends justify the means. If you can get a great player, do it, but with calculation.

I have no doubts the Knicks were terrified last summer. They played it safe, and now have the worst team in the NBA to show for it, but hey, we have cap space going forward and a bunch of picks coming. See how far that takes us if the front office continues to play it safe.

Everyone on this team should be available for the right price, even the sainted RJ Barrett.

And lastly, it might be a good idea to get a fucking point guard in here since every other team in the NBA has better ones than we have. Fucking idiots that run this team. Eldrick Payton....whooopee.
RE: Nygiants16  
nygiants16 : 1/17/2020 11:20 am : link
In comment 14783324 GMEN46 said:
Quote:
The proof is in the stats. His fg % is up 6 percent, 3 point shooting up 4 % and free throw shooting up 10 %. Whose to say he isnít up to 42 %/ 36% and 80% next year as a 22 year old. He needs time. Devin Booker is a terrible comparison. He was a lights out shooter naturally. If you recall I wanted the Knicks to trade down for booker during the porzingis draft. And just in case anyone forgot I was calling for d mitchell over Frank. So my ability to recognize talent is strong as many of you already know.


He is also shooting less than he did last year.

Also if he was shooting so much better you would think his ppg would have gone up a little bit more.

He is still shooting 37%
RE: How About Stephen Curry?  
Pete44 : 1/17/2020 11:26 am : link
In comment 14783328 Samiam said:
Quote:
Werent they one pick away from him and they ended up with that meh forward from Arizona with the long hair?

Do the Knicks have a plan now? Certainly not a good one or a long term one. I donít understand bringing in these veterans on one year deals unless theyíll be traded but except for Morris, how much value do they gave? If youíre going to lose, and they will lose playing the kids extensively. The point above about the young kids is valid. No point in keeping Knox or Frank or DSJ on the bench


Yes, that is a good one. We ended up with Jordan Hill.
RE: RE: How About Stephen Curry?  
TommyWiseau : 1/17/2020 11:33 am : link
In comment 14783346 Pete44 said:
Quote:
In comment 14783328 Samiam said:


Quote:


Werent they one pick away from him and they ended up with that meh forward from Arizona with the long hair?

Do the Knicks have a plan now? Certainly not a good one or a long term one. I donít understand bringing in these veterans on one year deals unless theyíll be traded but except for Morris, how much value do they gave? If youíre going to lose, and they will lose playing the kids extensively. The point above about the young kids is valid. No point in keeping Knox or Frank or DSJ on the bench



Yes, that is a good one. We ended up with Jordan Hill.


Should have taken Derozan there like many on here were shouting for. Hill was a bum in college and a bum in the pros
LaMelo's shutting it down for the year.  
bceagle05 : 1/17/2020 1:04 pm : link
Just feels like he's going to be a Knick.
RE: RE: Once they made the decision to trade Porzingas  
Vanzetti : 1/17/2020 1:13 pm : link
In comment 14782997 nygiants16 said:
Quote:
In comment 14782950 Vanzetti said:


Quote:


It was committing to another two years of rebuild

Trade whatever vets you can. Stockpile picks. Even if they are seconds

They have to stick to the plan. Worst thing that can happen is if Perry and Mills try to save their jobs by signing some second tier free agents just to make the playoffs



Bullshit, Mills and Perry did not spend 70 million laat offseason with the idea of tanking again..

If tanking was thr plan they would of used cap space to trade for draft picks..

I dont want to hear this was the plan


Knicks problem is not sticking to a plan and not planning far enough in advance.

Lebron became a fiasco because Donnie had to trade draft picks to unload bad contracts to clear cap space. Then the same thing happened with the pursuit of Durant. They had to use Porzingas as bait to get Dallas to take Lee and THJR's contracts.

If there had been a plan in place, they never would have had those contracts to unload. Everybody knew about these free agent extravaganzas years in advance. Knicks should have been preparing for Lebron and Durant/Kyrie/Kawhi years in advance

And if they had Porzingas locked up, they might have been able to lure some of the FAs last year. Because that's the type of young emerging star, bigtime FAs want to play with. But they had to trade him to open up space. Just poor planning.

Right now, they should be aiming for Giannis in 2021. And I think that is exactly what they are doing. Problem is know-nothing media and fans clamor for them to acquire some second-tier player who maybe makes it a 35-40 win team. And Dolan caves to the pressure.

Just stay the course. If you don't get Giannis, you just keep going and eventually you will land the right guy. Anthony Davis looks like he might opt out. And there will be others. Because the new thing in the NBA is for superstars to become free agents and have everyone court them. That's the new sign of greatness. If Knicks stick to the plan, it will work out.






I will bet a billion dollars  
nygiants16 : 1/17/2020 1:23 pm : link
giannis is never a knicks player and it is a stupid plan to try and sign him
RJ Barrett  
Pete44 : 1/17/2020 1:29 pm : link
RJ Barrett out at least a week = Knicks unwatchable for a week.
Giannis  
Pete44 : 1/17/2020 1:31 pm : link
Giannis has less than no interest in the Knicks, I have that on very good authority. If there was ever a superstar destined to stay in a small market, it is Giannis. He loves Millwaukee, he loves his teammates and their owners will do anything for him. Of course, if they lose, that could change things, but he has zero interest in the Knicks and some of it is from how his brother was treated.
RE: Giannis  
nygiants16 : 1/17/2020 1:51 pm : link
In comment 14783560 Pete44 said:
Quote:
Giannis has less than no interest in the Knicks, I have that on very good authority. If there was ever a superstar destined to stay in a small market, it is Giannis. He loves Millwaukee, he loves his teammates and their owners will do anything for him. Of course, if they lose, that could change things, but he has zero interest in the Knicks and some of it is from how his brother was treated.


yup he hates the knicks
Knicks are the only NBA team to give his brother an opportunity  
bceagle05 : 1/17/2020 1:54 pm : link
besides the Bucks, who are only doing it to keep Giannis happy.
Not doubting that he's annoyed with the Knicks,  
bceagle05 : 1/17/2020 1:55 pm : link
but it seems a little ridiculous that he would be.
Right. Like you guys know what Giannis is thinking  
Vanzetti : 1/17/2020 1:58 pm : link
Plus, people change their minds all the time, especially in their twenties. Everyone said Kyrie was going to stay in Boston. Things change.

And its beside the point what Giannis does. I was just using him as an example. Top players are all going the free agent route these days. There will be lots of opportunities over the next few years to sign a bigtime player.

Knicks just have to be in a position to capitalize when it happens.
David Aldridge reporting Beal is miserable in DC.  
bceagle05 : 1/17/2020 2:01 pm : link
I have no clue why he signed that extension, but now that he's under contract for the next few years, I'd give up quite a bit to get him. I'm a big fan of his.
Forget giannis  
nygiants16 : 1/17/2020 2:05 pm : link
no max player is signing with this dumpster fire until it looks like it is run like a competent franchise..

We have to pretend this is the st louis knicks rather than the new york knicks
Bucks are in cap hell  
Vanzetti : 1/17/2020 2:11 pm : link
They have no ability to sign any free agents other than the exceptions.

They also lack the second superstar. Khris Middleton is a fine player, especially for a guy picked in the second round.

But he is not Anthony Davis. Maybe Bucks can win it. But their window will rapidly close as guys age.

So, I don't think Giannis is staying in Milwaukee. Of course, he is saying the right things. But I think when he and his agent sit down and look at things in 2021, there will be way better options than the Bucks.
RE: David Aldridge reporting Beal is miserable in DC.  
nygiants16 : 1/17/2020 2:28 pm : link
In comment 14783627 bceagle05 said:
Quote:
I have no clue why he signed that extension, but now that he's under contract for the next few years, I'd give up quite a bit to get him. I'm a big fan of his.


He wont be much happier in new york lol
also beal cant be traded until next season  
nygiants16 : 1/17/2020 2:31 pm : link
..
Oh good, hopefully we'll have a new team president/GM by then.  
bceagle05 : 1/17/2020 2:33 pm : link
.
RE: Oh good, hopefully we'll have a new team president/GM by then.  
nygiants16 : 1/17/2020 2:36 pm : link
In comment 14783687 bceagle05 said:
Quote:
.


you know mills will be here as long as he wants
Berman says Knicks have no interest in trading for Drummond  
shyster : 1/17/2020 6:30 pm : link
This is "according to an NBA source." This is same thing Stefan Bondy reported shortly after the Shams/Begley stories.

Berman does think the Knicks should go after Drummond as a free agent but does not suggest he has any information on whether Knicks management is so inclined.

Quote:
According to an NBA source, the Knicks have no interest in a [Drummond] trade despite a report the Pistons approached them about a deal ó and it makes absolutely no sense to give up pawns for Drummond if heís opting out. But it will also make no sense if the Knicks donít go after Drummond this July, even if they possess a young 7-foot-1 center they think can develop into something special.



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