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Would Scherff be a good signing?

giants_10_88 : 1/17/2020 11:58 am
Or is Conklin the better target?

Either way I want the Wisconsin C in blue.
When it comes to the OL  
GiantsRage2007 : 1/17/2020 11:59 am : link
The answer is Yes.

Yes to all the above.
Why would the Giants sign an expensive Guard?  
Brown Recluse : 1/17/2020 12:05 pm : link
.
He would be a terrific upgrade...  
bw in dc : 1/17/2020 12:06 pm : link
Then it's a numbers game. Who do we move?
Might he be an upgrade at RT?  
JerryNicklebag : 1/17/2020 12:07 pm : link
Conklin would be for sure.
No.....they need tackles....not guards  
George from PA : 1/17/2020 12:08 pm : link
.
RE: Why would the Giants sign an expensive Guard?  
giants_10_88 : 1/17/2020 12:08 pm : link
In comment 14783396 Brown Recluse said:
Quote:
.


Because he's a stud. And an instant upgrade. Would give us some nastiness and would be great at pulling and creating holes for Barkley. We could always move Zeitler.
Could we afford both?  
giants_10_88 : 1/17/2020 12:09 pm : link
Solder-Hernandez-Bisadz(sp?)-Schreff-Conklin would be an elite line.
Could Zeitler...  
bw in dc : 1/17/2020 12:10 pm : link
move to C?
...  
BleedBlue : 1/17/2020 12:10 pm : link
give me conklin

draft a Center

Solder-Hernandez-Ruiz/Biadasz-Zeitler-Conklin
I think we're beyond Hernandez' scholarship  
widmerseyebrow : 1/17/2020 12:11 pm : link
so I wouldn't be terribly upset about signing or drafting a guard to compete with what we have. Frankly no one should be safe.
RE: No.....they need tackles....not guards  
bw in dc : 1/17/2020 12:11 pm : link
In comment 14783401 George from PA said:
Quote:
.


I think we need both. Maybe Tackles more, but I'm not feeling so great these days about Hernandez and Zeitler.
As mentioned above we need Tackles moreso  
Jimmy Googs : 1/17/2020 12:13 pm : link
This is like throwing money at Leonard Williams when we need an edge rusher more than a DT...
Googs +1  
JonC : 1/17/2020 12:15 pm : link
Being multiple is one thing, spending like drunken sailors in a capped league is another.
So you kill Gettleman for splurging on Solder  
Brown Recluse : 1/17/2020 12:22 pm : link
but you want to splurge on a Guard when we already have two that are capable.

You can't have it both ways.
RE: As mentioned above we need Tackles moreso  
bw in dc : 1/17/2020 12:22 pm : link
In comment 14783410 Jimmy Googs said:
Quote:
This is like throwing money at Leonard Williams when we need an edge rusher more than a DT...


The entire OL is a unreliable. The examples of the interior getting steamrolled are endless.

We could solve LT in the draft. Move Solder to RT. And then upgrade G with a theoretical move like this with Scherff.
RE: I think we're beyond Hernandez' scholarship  
Brown Recluse : 1/17/2020 12:23 pm : link
In comment 14783407 widmerseyebrow said:
Quote:
so I wouldn't be terribly upset about signing or drafting a guard to compete with what we have. Frankly no one should be safe.


Frankly, we're not beyond Hernandez' scholarship.

Players generally three years at minimum. This is basic knowledge.
Oh my bad...  
bw in dc : 1/17/2020 12:24 pm : link
I forgot.

According to our great GM, he liked the way our interior OL played this year...

No problem to solve. Let's just focus on tackles.
I wanted Scherff in the draft  
rasbutant : 1/17/2020 12:25 pm : link
and thought he was a Tackle not a Guard.

He has done well there. But I still wonder if he might be just as good at Tackle.
RE: Oh my bad...  
Brown Recluse : 1/17/2020 12:27 pm : link
In comment 14783426 bw in dc said:
Quote:
I forgot.

According to our great GM, he liked the way our interior OL played this year...

No problem to solve. Let's just focus on tackles.


One day you'll learn not to take every single word that is said in a media press conference literally. And that there are team/player/agent reasons for saying what is said, and those reasons matter more than you do.
Why so many ready to dismiss  
bigblue5611_2 : 1/17/2020 12:30 pm : link
Hernandez/Zeitler? Yet people couldn't get rid of Hal Hunter fast enough.

Do people not think that with the right coaching these two could revert back to their 2018 forms or better? Zeitler was highly regarded in Cleveland, no? And we were all impressed by Hernandez's rookie season. I would say it was a combination of poor coaching/scheme as well as the poor play of Halapio.

Let's get a better C (whether draft or FA), better coaching and see what we have. There are too many holes with limited resources to use, despite the amount of cap we'll have, that money will go quick. Get a C and RT in here, hopefully a LT to develop if not getting a RT that can kick to LT when Solder is gone, then go after ER, LB, DB and WR.
I would like to see how Hernandez and Zietler do  
Mattman : 1/17/2020 12:31 pm : link
With a better ol coach, scheme and center
RE: RE: Oh my bad...  
BleedBlue : 1/17/2020 12:32 pm : link
In comment 14783433 Brown Recluse said:
Quote:
In comment 14783426 bw in dc said:


Quote:


I forgot.

According to our great GM, he liked the way our interior OL played this year...

No problem to solve. Let's just focus on tackles.



One day you'll learn not to take every single word that is said in a media press conference literally. And that there are team/player/agent reasons for saying what is said, and those reasons matter more than you do.


+1

people think because he doesnt come out and say halapio blows, that means he likes him and doesnt see a need for upgrade. a GM IS NEVER GOING TO BASH PLAYERS OR GIVE YOU OR ANYONE ELSE AN IDEA WHAT HE FEELS NEEDS TO BE UPGRADED.

why the fuck can people here not understand this BASIC BITCH concept?
RE: RE: Oh my bad...  
bw in dc : 1/17/2020 12:33 pm : link
In comment 14783433 Brown Recluse said:
Quote:
In comment 14783426 bw in dc said:


Quote:


I forgot.

According to our great GM, he liked the way our interior OL played this year...

No problem to solve. Let's just focus on tackles.



One day you'll learn not to take every single word that is said in a media press conference literally. And that there are team/player/agent reasons for saying what is said, and those reasons matter more than you do.


Gettleman said it in his interview with Joe and Evan. Evan pressed him on the OL's performance, and Gettleman got defensive and was quick to say he was pleased with the GCG combo. It didn't sound like "GM speak" at all...
RE: Oh my bad...  
bigblue5611_2 : 1/17/2020 12:34 pm : link
Quote:
bw in dc : 12:33 pm : link : reply
In comment 14783433 Brown Recluse said:
Quote:
In comment 14783426 bw in dc said:


Quote:


I forgot.

According to our great GM, he liked the way our interior OL played this year...

No problem to solve. Let's just focus on tackles.



One day you'll learn not to take every single word that is said in a media press conference literally. And that there are team/player/agent reasons for saying what is said, and those reasons matter more than you do.


Gettleman said it in his interview with Joe and Evan. Evan pressed him on the OL's performance, and Gettleman got defensive and was quick to say he was pleased with the GCG combo. It didn't sound like "GM speak" at all...


Did he not also say "we didn't sign Odell to trade him"? Stop taking every word he says to the media as gospel and you'll be better off.
RE: RE: RE: Oh my bad...  
Brown Recluse : 1/17/2020 12:35 pm : link
In comment 14783445 bw in dc said:
Quote:
In comment 14783433 Brown Recluse said:


Quote:


In comment 14783426 bw in dc said:


Quote:


I forgot.

According to our great GM, he liked the way our interior OL played this year...

No problem to solve. Let's just focus on tackles.



One day you'll learn not to take every single word that is said in a media press conference literally. And that there are team/player/agent reasons for saying what is said, and those reasons matter more than you do.



Gettleman said it in his interview with Joe and Evan. Evan pressed him on the OL's performance, and Gettleman got defensive and was quick to say he was pleased with the GCG combo. It didn't sound like "GM speak" at all...


Interview, press conference - whatever. Its still information that is handed to the media and circulated through the public.

You wouldn't know "GM speak" if it bit you in the ass.
RE: RE: Oh my bad...  
bw in dc : 1/17/2020 12:41 pm : link
In comment 14783448 bigblue5611_2 said:
Quote:

Did he not also say "we didn't sign Odell to trade him"? Stop taking every word he says to the media as gospel and you'll be better off.


Here's an idea - go listen to it.

In the same interview, he says Solder didn't play well. Should we ignore that too?
Does anybody think that with Gates playing solid football that  
Rjanyg : 1/17/2020 12:44 pm : link
Right Tackle is a little less important to spend big money on?

I like the idea of fixing everything on this team but we would be foolish to expect a spending spree even though we will have about $90 Million.

I would put OLB/DE and Center higher on the spending list. Free Safety and ILB are another spot we could stand to improve.
RE: Oh my bad...  
bigblue5611_2 : 1/17/2020 12:45 pm : link
Quote:
bw in dc : 12:41 pm : link : reply
In comment 14783448 bigblue5611_2 said:
Quote:

Did he not also say "we didn't sign Odell to trade him"? Stop taking every word he says to the media as gospel and you'll be better off.


Here's an idea - go listen to it.

In the same interview, he says Solder didn't play well. Should we ignore that too?


Here's an idea - GM's and coaches are not obligated to tell the media what their plans are. Do you want the GM to announce from the rooftops that our Center sucked balls and we plan to upgrade it as soon as humanly possible? In other words, you want the GM to throw his players under the bus while trying to attract new talent? That's a good idea I suppose...
RE: RE: Oh my bad...  
bw in dc : 1/17/2020 12:48 pm : link
In comment 14783468 bigblue5611_2 said:
Quote:


Quote:


bw in dc : 12:41 pm : link : reply
In comment 14783448 bigblue5611_2 said:
Quote:

Did he not also say "we didn't sign Odell to trade him"? Stop taking every word he says to the media as gospel and you'll be better off.


Here's an idea - go listen to it.

In the same interview, he says Solder didn't play well. Should we ignore that too?




Here's an idea - GM's and coaches are not obligated to tell the media what their plans are. Do you want the GM to announce from the rooftops that our Center sucked balls and we plan to upgrade it as soon as humanly possible? In other words, you want the GM to throw his players under the bus while trying to attract new talent? That's a good idea I suppose...


Whatever. The point I was raising initially was that the interior of our OL is not very good despite what Gettleman said. So we shouldn't assume the problem is just at OLT and ORT.

The entire OL is a problem.
I get your point  
bigblue5611_2 : 1/17/2020 12:57 pm : link
But the flip side here could be that the poor OL play could very well be more scheme/coaching than a talent issue. I'm not saying we shouldn't look to upgrade positions, Center being the first one I'd make, but Zeitler playing well in Cleveland wasn't a mirage and neither was Hernandez's rookie year.
the O-line coaching was so bad  
Peter from NH (formerly CT) : 1/17/2020 12:59 pm : link
I don't know how you make a completely accurate judgment on some of the existing players. Seems like center and tackle is a more pressing need.
In other words  
bigblue5611_2 : 1/17/2020 12:59 pm : link
The sum of the whole is greater than the parts.

I would say let's look to upgrade Center with a stud, RT if possible and see what we have. Along with better coaching/scheme as well...
Gates' sample size is awfully small  
JonC : 1/17/2020 12:59 pm : link
and not really against quality competition. Would not hitch the wagon at this time.
At this point I'd rather corner the market on second tier  
jcn56 : 1/17/2020 1:01 pm : link
OL talent. Figure if only a third of them work out you'd still get more value than heaping a large sum of money on Conklin and hoping his health holds up.
RE: Could Zeitler...  
Eman11 : 1/17/2020 1:07 pm : link
In comment 14783405 bw in dc said:
Quote:
move to C?


If yes then I wouldn't mind signing Scherff. I'd rather they use the money for a C or RT though and draft whichever one they don't sign in FA.

My preference in order would be sign Conklin, if not then a C, and if not either then consider moving Zeitler to C and signing Schreff.
I don't like the idea of  
Lines of Scrimmage : 1/17/2020 1:07 pm : link
throwing a lot of the money on the OL. I still think this is a position that can developed. The key is keeping a pipeline of quality potential (through draft/UDFA) and developing. Most of the other positions require more god given or natural athletic talent.

I really want a good OL coach and for them to figure out how to identify better and come up with a better approach. Keep more OL on practice squad? Stash for a year? Etc.
Are the Patriots OL  
giants_10_88 : 1/17/2020 1:09 pm : link
an option? Thuney is a FA no?
Scherff is a young, special OG.  
yatqb : 1/17/2020 1:12 pm : link
I'd love to land him, and move either Zeitler or Hernandez to OC.
RE: RE: I think we're beyond Hernandez' scholarship  
widmerseyebrow : 1/17/2020 1:13 pm : link
In comment 14783421 Brown Recluse said:
Quote:
Frankly, we're not beyond Hernandez' scholarship.

Players generally three years at minimum. This is basic knowledge.


Will Beatty is of the opinion that you know what you have in an offensive lineman by year two. I'll take his informed knowledge over your basic knowledge.
Only if he played OC or OT.  
BlueLou'sBack : 1/17/2020 1:14 pm : link
Which he doesn't, he's an OG. They have two good ones at OG.
I wouldn't give big money to  
Someguy1978 : 1/17/2020 1:27 pm : link
Scherff, which he is going to command. He's missed a bit of time over the past few seasons to injury. He missed 5 games this past season and 8 games in 2018. When healthy, he's very good, but to me he isn't worth the risk of giving him big money if he can't stay on the field. Let another team take that risk.
Hernandez and Zeitler flanking a physical C,  
Racer : 1/17/2020 1:28 pm : link
and guided by a real position coach is a better situation than public imagination seems to envision at the moment, I'm thinking.
Scherff or no Scherff...  
Klaatu : 1/17/2020 1:30 pm : link
We don't need more guys trying to play Center who've never played it before. No more trying to fit square pegs into round holes.

Sign a Center like Ted Karras, and draft a kid you can develop, too.
RE: RE: RE: I think we're beyond Hernandez' scholarship  
Bill in UT : 1/17/2020 1:35 pm : link
In comment 14783525 widmerseyebrow said:
Quote:
In comment 14783421 Brown Recluse said:


Quote:


Frankly, we're not beyond Hernandez' scholarship.

Players generally three years at minimum. This is basic knowledge.



Will Beatty is of the opinion that you know what you have in an offensive lineman by year two. I'll take his informed knowledge over your basic knowledge.


So what did Beatty think of himself as an OL?
RE: RE: RE: I think we're beyond Hernandez' scholarship  
Brown Recluse : 1/17/2020 1:36 pm : link
In comment 14783525 widmerseyebrow said:
Quote:
In comment 14783421 Brown Recluse said:


Quote:


Frankly, we're not beyond Hernandez' scholarship.

Players generally three years at minimum. This is basic knowledge.



Will Beatty is of the opinion that you know what you have in an offensive lineman by year two. I'll take his informed knowledge over your basic knowledge.


Yeah...I don't really give a shit what Will Beatty says.

This isn't *my* basic knowledge. Its a general consensus among people who know more than Will Beatty. And yeah, obviously there are exceptions to everything...but anyone with common sense wouldn't give up on a 2nd round player after just 2 years unless they were absolutely awful and showed no ability to play at the NFL level. They certainly aren't going to splurge on a replacement in free agency.
RE: Are the Patriots OL  
bw in dc : 1/17/2020 1:39 pm : link
In comment 14783517 giants_10_88 said:
Quote:
an option? Thuney is a FA no?


Yes, Thuney is a FA. And he will be more expensive than Scherff. He was second team all-pro G this year.
RE: I get your point  
bw in dc : 1/17/2020 1:46 pm : link
In comment 14783495 bigblue5611_2 said:
Quote:
But the flip side here could be that the poor OL play could very well be more scheme/coaching than a talent issue. I'm not saying we shouldn't look to upgrade positions, Center being the first one I'd make, but Zeitler playing well in Cleveland wasn't a mirage and neither was Hernandez's rookie year.


Fair enough.

I'll just say this about the scheme/coaching point. While it is a reasonable point (I've been killing Hal Hunter since we hired him), I'm leaning more towards the talent being the bigger concern. I've just seen way too many examples where our interior is getting beat like seals on glaciers. Helpless. And it's been across all three spots (C being worst - obviously).
RE: I get your point  
bigblue5611_2 : 1/17/2020 1:59 pm : link
Quote:
bw in dc : 1:46 pm : link : reply
In comment 14783495 bigblue5611_2 said:
Quote:
But the flip side here could be that the poor OL play could very well be more scheme/coaching than a talent issue. I'm not saying we shouldn't look to upgrade positions, Center being the first one I'd make, but Zeitler playing well in Cleveland wasn't a mirage and neither was Hernandez's rookie year.


Fair enough.

I'll just say this about the scheme/coaching point. While it is a reasonable point (I've been killing Hal Hunter since we hired him), I'm leaning more towards the talent being the bigger concern. I've just seen way too many examples where our interior is getting beat like seals on glaciers. Helpless. And it's been across all three spots (C being worst - obviously).


Oh I agree they got beat way too many teams, I just felt like with the G's it was more getting beat on twists and stunts more than it was getting beat straight up. I felt Halipio was the one that got pushed around. Given that, I think better the better schemes and coaching would help as well as a C that is better able to call out the blocking assignments. Jones getting more experience reading the blitz' and helping out here as Eli did would also help.
IMO, Scherff's feet are slow for tackle  
Ira : 1/17/2020 2:18 pm : link
.
RE: RE: As mentioned above we need Tackles moreso  
Jimmy Googs : 1/17/2020 2:43 pm : link
In comment 14783419 bw in dc said:
Quote:
In comment 14783410 Jimmy Googs said:


Quote:


This is like throwing money at Leonard Williams when we need an edge rusher more than a DT...



The entire OL is a unreliable. The examples of the interior getting steamrolled are endless.

We could solve LT in the draft. Move Solder to RT. And then upgrade G with a theoretical move like this with Scherff.


Don't disagree, that could be a strategy. Our Guards / Center certainly were unimpressive this year. Just suggesting what would be of primary focus imv...not all things go according to plan as we know
RE: RE: RE: Oh my bad...  
Gatorade Dunk : 1/17/2020 2:53 pm : link
In comment 14783444 BleedBlue said:
Quote:
In comment 14783433 Brown Recluse said:


Quote:


In comment 14783426 bw in dc said:


Quote:


I forgot.

According to our great GM, he liked the way our interior OL played this year...

No problem to solve. Let's just focus on tackles.



One day you'll learn not to take every single word that is said in a media press conference literally. And that there are team/player/agent reasons for saying what is said, and those reasons matter more than you do.



+1

people think because he doesnt come out and say halapio blows, that means he likes him and doesnt see a need for upgrade. a GM IS NEVER GOING TO BASH PLAYERS OR GIVE YOU OR ANYONE ELSE AN IDEA WHAT HE FEELS NEEDS TO BE UPGRADED.

why the fuck can people here not understand this BASIC BITCH concept?

He brought Halapio back without even trying to upgrade the position. This isn't about taking his words literally, it's about taking his fucking actions literally, you dolt.
RE: RE: RE: As mentioned above we need Tackles moreso  
bw in dc : 1/17/2020 3:51 pm : link
In comment 14783702 Jimmy Googs said:
Quote:
In comment 14783419 bw in dc said:


Quote:


In comment 14783410 Jimmy Googs said:


Quote:


This is like throwing money at Leonard Williams when we need an edge rusher more than a DT...



The entire OL is a unreliable. The examples of the interior getting steamrolled are endless.

We could solve LT in the draft. Move Solder to RT. And then upgrade G with a theoretical move like this with Scherff.



Don't disagree, that could be a strategy. Our Guards / Center certainly were unimpressive this year. Just suggesting what would be of primary focus imv...not all things go according to plan as we know


At this point, I'd rather roll the dice with a LT draft prospect than spend in FA for Conklin, who I think is going to be over-valued. Although a 2 year deal for an older guy like Castonzo or Bulaga could be a move, too.

I'm fond of Saahdiq Charles of LSU. Not an expert, but every time I watch him I see good bend, a good athlete, and moves his feet well. And I really like Prince Wanogho of Auburn. So I think there may be nice solutions in this draft...
I am aligned that we need to bring in 2 new tackles this offseason  
Jimmy Googs : 1/17/2020 4:50 pm : link
between free agency & draft. Not saying we should go sign the #1 ranked free agent Tackle, or use 1st round pick but some reasonable investment. I have a feeling either will be able to challenge Solder fairly well.

Solder is going to have win his LT job back, or win the RT job or be relegated as the backup tackle.

RE: When it comes to the OL  
BigBlueJuice : 1/17/2020 5:58 pm : link
First off lets be real for a moment about what has transpired this year with the oline. Solder showed he is suspect on blind side, moving to right will at least make use of the dollars we spent for the LT position, aka most important part of line for right handed QBs, Remmers was a shell of himself dealing with backpain all year, should cut ties with. Gates showed promise but most likely only backup. Halapio is trash, cut him. Pulley is backup but that contract is way too much as a backup. Id chance it on Conklin for right side, way better than Remmers , to lock up 1 tackle spot if Solder stays Left side. Id cut Solder if we get a high priced FA for left like trent williams. Id also still draft top OT whether they believe Wills or Thomas. Id even find another guard. Big George may be best as a backup once he gets back from injury but it is promising he went up against Josh Allen in college. We need to draft best C in 2nd round. I also hope we trade back with Miami for an extra couple picks and then to Oakland directly after for bothe their 1st rounders and more late round picks and we can see if we are in running for top LB or OT cause we can trade back up with the extra picks we just got. Just thought but with right OL coach i trust zeitler, hernandez, it ls the other positions are suspect. And can dock either G for performance cause they had to do twice the work to keep qb clean.


In comment 14783393 GiantsRage2007 said:
Quote:
The answer is Yes.

Yes to all the above.
RE: RE: RE: Oh my bad...  
Scuzzlebutt : 1/18/2020 8:52 am : link
In comment 14783444 BleedBlue said:
Quote:
In comment 14783433 Brown Recluse said:


Quote:


In comment 14783426 bw in dc said:


Quote:


I forgot.

According to our great GM, he liked the way our interior OL played this year...

No problem to solve. Let's just focus on tackles.



One day you'll learn not to take every single word that is said in a media press conference literally. And that there are team/player/agent reasons for saying what is said, and those reasons matter more than you do.



+1

people think because he doesnt come out and say halapio blows, that means he likes him and doesnt see a need for upgrade. a GM IS NEVER GOING TO BASH PLAYERS OR GIVE YOU OR ANYONE ELSE AN IDEA WHAT HE FEELS NEEDS TO BE UPGRADED.

why the fuck can people here not understand this BASIC BITCH concept?


Could not agree more.
this team needs a good O line coach as  
Jersey55 : 1/19/2020 11:21 am : link
much as they need players..
RE: Why so many ready to dismiss  
Jersey55 : 1/19/2020 11:24 am : link
In comment 14783439 bigblue5611_2 said:
Quote:
Hernandez/Zeitler? Yet people couldn't get rid of Hal Hunter fast enough.

Do people not think that with the right coaching these two could revert back to their 2018 forms or better? Zeitler was highly regarded in Cleveland, no? And we were all impressed by Hernandez's rookie season. I would say it was a combination of poor coaching/scheme as well as the poor play of Halapio.

Let's get a better C (whether draft or FA), better coaching and see what we have. There are too many holes with limited resources to use, despite the amount of cap we'll have, that money will go quick. Get a C and RT in here, hopefully a LT to develop if not getting a RT that can kick to LT when Solder is gone, then go after ER, LB, DB and WR.


I think you're right about our O line coaching being a big part of the problem..
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