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Dallas News on Garrett as Giants OC

Big Blue '56 : 1/18/2020 8:50 am
Some snippets:


Quote:
Garrett was also more effective as an offensive coordinator than critics are willing to concede. The Cowboys finished second in scoring and third in yards during Garrett’s first season as a coordinator in ’07. Dallas finished in the top seven three times and was never lower than No. 13 in his four-plus seasons as coordinator.



Quote:
Garrett, 53, provides the head coaching experience Judge lacks. He makes ownership a little more comfortable. Garrett was a long-time quarterback in this league who can help develop Daniel Jones.


Quote:

If Saquon Barkley remains healthy for the entire season, is there any doubt the running back will lead the NFL in yards from scrimmage with Garrett as the offensive coordinator?


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I have a feeling  
5BowlsSoon : 1/18/2020 8:57 am : link
Most Cowboy fans will mock us for this hiring. Many blame Garrett for their lack,of playoff success.
Eh  
Bill2 : 1/18/2020 9:01 am : link
I think some Dallas fans comments have a unexpressed concern that Jerry's constant meddling is not leading forward.

Yankees fans came to the same cynical view of George Steinbrenner's constant meddling on behalf of winning..

Everyone's stock goes down and went down when they are around Georges Steinbrenner and Jerry Jones constant swirls...its all goes gossipville

imo, the last 30 days for the NYG presents competitive fans bases with evidence of a long lost dormat finally waking up.

So they give disparagement more space in empty heads as if comments affect competitive outcomes.

Hard to be patient and wait for results to start to show up in the second half of next year

I think most people in Dallas know that Jerry Jones  
Chip : 1/18/2020 9:02 am : link
meddling is the real problem
RE: I have a feeling  
BigBlueShock : 1/18/2020 9:07 am : link
In comment 14784467 5BowlsSoon said:
Quote:
Most Cowboy fans will mock us for this hiring. Many blame Garrett for their lack,of playoff success.

They would have mocked us if he was hired as HC, sure. But as OC? Come on now. Just stop.
RE: I have a feeling  
M.S. : 1/18/2020 9:08 am : link
In comment 14784467 5BowlsSoon said:
Quote:
Most Cowboy fans will mock us for this hiring. Many blame Garrett for their lack,of playoff success.


It is so easy to mock the Giants, but it has nothing to do with the hiring of Jason Garrett. More to the point: The Dallas Cowboys own us almost as much as Philly owns us.

And that's just for starters.

The Giants have the worst NFL record over the last three years, and the team is simply NOT competitive against any half-way decent opponent.

Add to that an offensive line that we haven't been able to fix in over half a dozen years, and a current defense that has ZERO play-makers. The Giants just plain suck, and that's what makes a mockery of the team, and a mockery of trying to root for such an inept franchise.
.  
skifaster : 1/18/2020 9:10 am : link
I hope Jerry Jones and Daniel Snyder live forever
RE: RE: I have a feeling  
5BowlsSoon : 1/18/2020 9:10 am : link
In comment 14784477 M.S. said:
Quote:
In comment 14784467 5BowlsSoon said:


Quote:


Most Cowboy fans will mock us for this hiring. Many blame Garrett for their lack,of playoff success.



It is so easy to mock the Giants, but it has nothing to do with the hiring of Jason Garrett. More to the point: The Dallas Cowboys own us almost as much as Philly owns us.

And that's just for starters.

The Giants have the worst NFL record over the last three years, and the team is simply NOT competitive against any half-way decent opponent.

Add to that an offensive line that we haven't been able to fix in over half a dozen years, and a current defense that has ZERO play-makers. The Giants just plain suck, and that's what makes a mockery of the team, and a mockery of trying to root for such an inept franchise.


Wow, I hope you feel better getting that all out of your system.
RE: I have a feeling  
M.S. : 1/18/2020 9:12 am : link
In comment 14784467 5BowlsSoon said:
Quote:
Most Cowboy fans will mock us for this hiring. Many blame Garrett for their lack,of playoff success.


Hit the return button too fast:

I will add this to my otherwise pessimistic view of the team: We are now starting anew with Joe Judge, who I think is assembling a good coaching staff. They should be able to squeeze more out of the current team than Pat Shurmur. Add to that a lot of cap space and another high Draft choice, and maybe we can get this bad boy turned around and headed in the right direction!!!

GO GIANTS!
RE: RE: I have a feeling  
BigBlueShock : 1/18/2020 9:20 am : link
In comment 14784477 M.S. said:
Quote:
In comment 14784467 5BowlsSoon said:


Quote:


Most Cowboy fans will mock us for this hiring. Many blame Garrett for their lack,of playoff success.



It is so easy to mock the Giants, but it has nothing to do with the hiring of Jason Garrett. More to the point: The Dallas Cowboys own us almost as much as Philly owns us.

And that's just for starters.

The Giants have the worst NFL record over the last three years, and the team is simply NOT competitive against any half-way decent opponent.

Add to that an offensive line that we haven't been able to fix in over half a dozen years, and a current defense that has ZERO play-makers. The Giants just plain suck, and that's what makes a mockery of the team, and a mockery of trying to root for such an inept franchise.

Grrrrr! You mad, bro?

You do realize that you didn’t say anything that hasn’t been said here a billion times, right?
i want to see how Dallas responds post-Marinelli  
Bobby Humphrey's Earpad : 1/18/2020 9:27 am : link
They hit on some draft picks on defense but he really coached those guys up.
An OC like Garrett was necessary with an inexperienced HC like Judge  
Eric on Li : 1/18/2020 9:31 am : link
he is the exact opposite of Joe Brady - both good and bad.

He has 10 years of experience as a head coach, and just 1 year with a losing record (good). But because of that he hasn't called plays in several years (bad).

He won at a high profile job, with a meddling owner who calls himself GM, in the NFC East (good). But his teams never won in the playoffs or achieved an elite performance the way Brady seemingly impacted Burrow/LSU this year (bad).

He was on Saban's staff coaching QBs for 2 years (good). He did well coaching 2 later round QB's in Dallas (good). His experience probably gives him some better relationships with assistant coaches (like Callahan) or at least insight into their importance (good). But all of his experience may or may not make him more moldable to how Judge wants to do things (bad).

So net-net, if you start with what I believe is a fair premise that there should be at least 1 former HC on staff to help any first time HC, a hire like Garrett was much more likely than an inexperienced wunderkind. We all know that's a somewhat short list (Gruden, Caldwell, Linehan, Callahan, Turner). Garrett isn't my favorite choice among those options but you can make a credible case his track record is the best and his experience both in this org and with Saban certainly made him the most known quantity. I'd have likely preferred Turner or Gruden bc I view them as better offensive schemers, but I do like that Garrett brings better success as a HC and an understanding of the importance of a great OL.
RE: An OC like Garrett was necessary with an inexperienced HC like Judge  
Big Blue '56 : 1/18/2020 9:34 am : link
In comment 14784500 Eric on Li said:
Quote:
he is the exact opposite of Joe Brady - both good and bad.

He has 10 years of experience as a head coach, and just 1 year with a losing record (good). But because of that he hasn't called plays in several years (bad).

He won at a high profile job, with a meddling owner who calls himself GM, in the NFC East (good). But his teams never won in the playoffs or achieved an elite performance the way Brady seemingly impacted Burrow/LSU this year (bad).

He was on Saban's staff coaching QBs for 2 years (good). He did well coaching 2 later round QB's in Dallas (good). His experience probably gives him some better relationships with assistant coaches (like Callahan) or at least insight into their importance (good). But all of his experience may or may not make him more moldable to how Judge wants to do things (bad).

So net-net, if you start with what I believe is a fair premise that there should be at least 1 former HC on staff to help any first time HC, a hire like Garrett was much more likely than an inexperienced wunderkind. We all know that's a somewhat short list (Gruden, Caldwell, Linehan, Callahan, Turner). Garrett isn't my favorite choice among those options but you can make a credible case his track record is the best and his experience both in this org and with Saban certainly made him the most known quantity. I'd have likely preferred Turner or Gruden bc I view them as better offensive schemers, but I do like that Garrett brings better success as a HC and an understanding of the importance of a great OL.


And despite some attempt to diminish his input with QB development, he was certainly around for Romo and Dak
RE: I have a feeling  
cokeduplt : 1/18/2020 9:37 am : link
In comment 14784467 5BowlsSoon said:
Quote:
Most Cowboy fans will mock us for this hiring. Many blame Garrett for their lack,of playoff success.



They are already mocking us. Who really cares though. I don’t see McCarthy putting them over the top.
he definitely deserves credit for Dak/Romo  
Eric on Li : 1/18/2020 9:41 am : link
neither of them is Andrew Luck or Peyton Manning and he had a decade averaging 9-10 wins with them. Dak had a great year this past year and Romo had some really good ones too, but both required schemes tailored to their strengths and a team around them. We just saw how bad things can get even with a competent QB wasting the last 7 years of Eli's career post-SB.

As HC he at minimum deserves recognition for setting the conditions for success though it is reasonable to wonder how much direct involvement he had vs. other coaches. Specifically when it comes to playcalling at least.
RE: An OC like Garrett was necessary with an inexperienced HC like Judge  
HomerJones45 : 1/18/2020 10:14 am : link
In comment 14784500 Eric on Li said:
Quote:
he is the exact opposite of Joe Brady - both good and bad.

He has 10 years of experience as a head coach, and just 1 year with a losing record (good). But because of that he hasn't called plays in several years (bad).

He won at a high profile job, with a meddling owner who calls himself GM, in the NFC East (good). But his teams never won in the playoffs or achieved an elite performance the way Brady seemingly impacted Burrow/LSU this year (bad).

He was on Saban's staff coaching QBs for 2 years (good). He did well coaching 2 later round QB's in Dallas (good). His experience probably gives him some better relationships with assistant coaches (like Callahan) or at least insight into their importance (good). But all of his experience may or may not make him more moldable to how Judge wants to do things (bad).

So net-net, if you start with what I believe is a fair premise that there should be at least 1 former HC on staff to help any first time HC, a hire like Garrett was much more likely than an inexperienced wunderkind. We all know that's a somewhat short list (Gruden, Caldwell, Linehan, Callahan, Turner). Garrett isn't my favorite choice among those options but you can make a credible case his track record is the best and his experience both in this org and with Saban certainly made him the most known quantity. I'd have likely preferred Turner or Gruden bc I view them as better offensive schemers, but I do like that Garrett brings better success as a HC and an understanding of the importance of a great OL.
No, it wasn't. Garrett is the de facto HC of the offense by virtue of his training, Judge's total lack of experience with offense and Garrett's experience

I hope this works but it smacks of that Giant specialty, the institutional compromise and hedge and is not without its potential for issues.

It's like appointing a guy fresh from the executive training program as the CEO and then hiring the CEO from a competitor to run one of the company's divisions. Who will take orders from whom? How will conflict be addressed? What happens the first time the rookie CEO who has no experience at all with what that division starts asking questions or issuing orders about it or questioning what the division head is doing? Is the CEO being brought in an intriguer who will undermine the rookie or will he be a good lieutenant? Who will the workers look to when the going gets tough?

I see this as the kind of set up that will work so long as all goes well out of the gate and has the potential for palace intrigue and assassinations if it doesn't.
Do you think you are being a bit  
Jimmy Googs : 1/18/2020 10:20 am : link
overly dramatic with all those pointed questions?

He is the Offensive Coord who needs to build offensive gameplans, call plays and get the guys to execute. And he reports and answers to the Head Coach.

moving on...

RE: RE: An OC like Garrett was necessary with an inexperienced HC like Judge  
Giants38 : 1/18/2020 10:42 am : link
In comment 14784561 HomerJones45 said:
Quote:
In comment 14784500 Eric on Li said:


Quote:


he is the exact opposite of Joe Brady - both good and bad.

He has 10 years of experience as a head coach, and just 1 year with a losing record (good). But because of that he hasn't called plays in several years (bad).

He won at a high profile job, with a meddling owner who calls himself GM, in the NFC East (good). But his teams never won in the playoffs or achieved an elite performance the way Brady seemingly impacted Burrow/LSU this year (bad).

He was on Saban's staff coaching QBs for 2 years (good). He did well coaching 2 later round QB's in Dallas (good). His experience probably gives him some better relationships with assistant coaches (like Callahan) or at least insight into their importance (good). But all of his experience may or may not make him more moldable to how Judge wants to do things (bad).

So net-net, if you start with what I believe is a fair premise that there should be at least 1 former HC on staff to help any first time HC, a hire like Garrett was much more likely than an inexperienced wunderkind. We all know that's a somewhat short list (Gruden, Caldwell, Linehan, Callahan, Turner). Garrett isn't my favorite choice among those options but you can make a credible case his track record is the best and his experience both in this org and with Saban certainly made him the most known quantity. I'd have likely preferred Turner or Gruden bc I view them as better offensive schemers, but I do like that Garrett brings better success as a HC and an understanding of the importance of a great OL.

No, it wasn't. Garrett is the de facto HC of the offense by virtue of his training, Judge's total lack of experience with offense and Garrett's experience

I hope this works but it smacks of that Giant specialty, the institutional compromise and hedge and is not without its potential for issues.

It's like appointing a guy fresh from the executive training program as the CEO and then hiring the CEO from a competitor to run one of the company's divisions. Who will take orders from whom? How will conflict be addressed? What happens the first time the rookie CEO who has no experience at all with what that division starts asking questions or issuing orders about it or questioning what the division head is doing? Is the CEO being brought in an intriguer who will undermine the rookie or will he be a good lieutenant? Who will the workers look to when the going gets tough?

I see this as the kind of set up that will work so long as all goes well out of the gate and has the potential for palace intrigue and assassinations if it doesn't.


It's not a perfect hire. But neither was the Joe Brady hire for Carolina. Garrett is a very smart guy who can give some guidance to Judge if and when Judge needs it. But it is important to know that Garrett's issues as a HC will not be an issue as an OC. He is not in charge of managing the clock or deciding when to go for it on 4th down. Instead, he will call the plays and run the offense, and I don't think people can credibly question him on that front. Sure, he is not the young, new hire that is popular in today's NFL,

It is similarly naive to believe that Garrett had no hand in designing the offense or developing the players on that team, even if he wasn't calling plays. He got the most anyone was going to get out of Dak, I believe. I don't think Dak is a franchise guy, and I doubt he is going to take some sort of leap now that Garrett is gone.

Again, Brady was my No. 1 choice for OC. I just think the way he transformed that LSU offense was crazy. Hopefully Garrett can prove he can get the most out of the players here. But it's hard not to view his signing as a positive for Jones, Barkley, Slayton, and Engram. He developed Dak, Elliott, Pollard, and Gallup in Dallas.
Homer  
Bill2 : 1/18/2020 10:57 am : link
Certainly reasonable to not see many positives until the second half of the season. Tons of talent deficits can only be coached up so far.

But I do see your kinds of speculative questions as the kind hot take seeking media and internet posters can get a whole season out of while adding old tropes into the mix as well and still not getting convincing proof from the field that the conspiracy theory du jour is more drummed up than real.

Its a hard sport to root for in hyperdrive for it take awhile between decisions and results. And unlike baseball, the results take a long time to accumulate into a sample size that's strong enough to resist the most common forms of bias and emotion.

Homer  
Mike in NY : 1/18/2020 11:04 am : link
One thing you are overlooking is that both Garrett and Judge coached under Nick Saban. Jason Garrett is also an NFL lifer and son of a coach who also spent time in the NFL. If there was no real connection between Judge and the OC which there would be if the Giants went out and brought in someone like Norv Turner, who has no obvious connection to Judge, I would say your fears would have been more justified.
'SB will lead the NFL in yards from scrimmage with Garrett as the OC'  
Torrag : 1/18/2020 11:25 am : link
There are a few coordinator RB combos that will vye for that top spot. McCaffrey and Brady in Carolina come to mind as one to watch as well.
"De facto head coach of the offense" means nothing.  
Mr. Bungle : 1/18/2020 11:49 am : link
If you're going to make a critical point, at least try to make sense.
Don’t underestimate Garrett as OC.....  
Simms11 : 1/18/2020 11:56 am : link
Although he didn’t call plays, he most likely had input and veto power. He knows what works and what should be called in certain situations. Having been a QB himself will only help DJ, but most likely put him in a better position to succeed. I’m cautiously optimistic. Time will tell about all these hires, but everyone gets a fresh start here. Kind of excited about the potential. I’ll say it again, we need to get the Oline straightened out and that in and of itself will take this offense to a higher level.
RE: RE: An OC like Garrett was necessary with an inexperienced HC like Judge  
clatterbuck : 1/18/2020 12:01 pm : link
In comment 14784561 HomerJones45 said:
Quote:
In comment 14784500 Eric on Li said:


Quote:


he is the exact opposite of Joe Brady - both good and bad.

He has 10 years of experience as a head coach, and just 1 year with a losing record (good). But because of that he hasn't called plays in several years (bad).

He won at a high profile job, with a meddling owner who calls himself GM, in the NFC East (good). But his teams never won in the playoffs or achieved an elite performance the way Brady seemingly impacted Burrow/LSU this year (bad).

He was on Saban's staff coaching QBs for 2 years (good). He did well coaching 2 later round QB's in Dallas (good). His experience probably gives him some better relationships with assistant coaches (like Callahan) or at least insight into their importance (good). But all of his experience may or may not make him more moldable to how Judge wants to do things (bad).

So net-net, if you start with what I believe is a fair premise that there should be at least 1 former HC on staff to help any first time HC, a hire like Garrett was much more likely than an inexperienced wunderkind. We all know that's a somewhat short list (Gruden, Caldwell, Linehan, Callahan, Turner). Garrett isn't my favorite choice among those options but you can make a credible case his track record is the best and his experience both in this org and with Saban certainly made him the most known quantity. I'd have likely preferred Turner or Gruden bc I view them as better offensive schemers, but I do like that Garrett brings better success as a HC and an understanding of the importance of a great OL.

No, it wasn't. Garrett is the de facto HC of the offense by virtue of his training, Judge's total lack of experience with offense and Garrett's experience

I hope this works but it smacks of that Giant specialty, the institutional compromise and hedge and is not without its potential for issues.

It's like appointing a guy fresh from the executive training program as the CEO and then hiring the CEO from a competitor to run one of the company's divisions. Who will take orders from whom? How will conflict be addressed? What happens the first time the rookie CEO who has no experience at all with what that division starts asking questions or issuing orders about it or questioning what the division head is doing? Is the CEO being brought in an intriguer who will undermine the rookie or will he be a good lieutenant? Who will the workers look to when the going gets tough?

I see this as the kind of set up that will work so long as all goes well out of the gate and has the potential for palace intrigue and assassinations if it doesn't.


Didn't you just say this on another thread?
RE: RE: An OC like Garrett was necessary with an inexperienced HC like Judge  
clatterbuck : 1/18/2020 12:02 pm : link
In comment 14784561 HomerJones45 said:
Quote:
In comment 14784500 Eric on Li said:


Quote:


he is the exact opposite of Joe Brady - both good and bad.

He has 10 years of experience as a head coach, and just 1 year with a losing record (good). But because of that he hasn't called plays in several years (bad).

He won at a high profile job, with a meddling owner who calls himself GM, in the NFC East (good). But his teams never won in the playoffs or achieved an elite performance the way Brady seemingly impacted Burrow/LSU this year (bad).

He was on Saban's staff coaching QBs for 2 years (good). He did well coaching 2 later round QB's in Dallas (good). His experience probably gives him some better relationships with assistant coaches (like Callahan) or at least insight into their importance (good). But all of his experience may or may not make him more moldable to how Judge wants to do things (bad).

So net-net, if you start with what I believe is a fair premise that there should be at least 1 former HC on staff to help any first time HC, a hire like Garrett was much more likely than an inexperienced wunderkind. We all know that's a somewhat short list (Gruden, Caldwell, Linehan, Callahan, Turner). Garrett isn't my favorite choice among those options but you can make a credible case his track record is the best and his experience both in this org and with Saban certainly made him the most known quantity. I'd have likely preferred Turner or Gruden bc I view them as better offensive schemers, but I do like that Garrett brings better success as a HC and an understanding of the importance of a great OL.

No, it wasn't. Garrett is the de facto HC of the offense by virtue of his training, Judge's total lack of experience with offense and Garrett's experience

I hope this works but it smacks of that Giant specialty, the institutional compromise and hedge and is not without its potential for issues.

It's like appointing a guy fresh from the executive training program as the CEO and then hiring the CEO from a competitor to run one of the company's divisions. Who will take orders from whom? How will conflict be addressed? What happens the first time the rookie CEO who has no experience at all with what that division starts asking questions or issuing orders about it or questioning what the division head is doing? Is the CEO being brought in an intriguer who will undermine the rookie or will he be a good lieutenant? Who will the workers look to when the going gets tough?

I see this as the kind of set up that will work so long as all goes well out of the gate and has the potential for palace intrigue and assassinations if it doesn't.


Didn't you just say this on another thread?
I hope  
ChicagoMarty : 1/18/2020 12:49 pm : link
DG listens hard to Garrett's evaluation of potential FA's for the Jints.

DG's FA picks have been underwhelming while his draft picks have been pretty good for the most part.

JInts have a ton of FA money to spend this offseason and they need to do so wisely given the number of holes that need to be filled.

Garrett's insights and opinion could be invaluable here
Judge doesn't strike me as a guy  
Sneakers O'toole : 1/18/2020 1:00 pm : link
that is going to be intimidated by Garrett's resume. He doesn't strike me as a guy that would allow a "defacto HC" type of situation of any kind to exist.
RE: Judge doesn't strike me as a guy  
Big Blue '56 : 1/18/2020 1:17 pm : link
In comment 14784780 Sneakers O'toole said:
Quote:
that is going to be intimidated by Garrett's resume. He doesn't strike me as a guy that would allow a "defacto HC" type of situation of any kind to exist.


If Judge wasn’t intimidated by Belichick (from all I’ve read) who will he be intimidated by?
56, exactly.  
Sneakers O'toole : 1/18/2020 1:18 pm : link
.
Have a good friend who is a Cowboy fan  
John In CO : 1/18/2020 3:04 pm : link
He absolutely HATED Garrett as a head coach. Was counting down the days until he was gone.

However, talking to him last night, had nothing but positive things to say about him as a coordinator. Seems to feel exactly how we feel about Shurmur: really good coordinator, but a horrible head coach.
RE: Have a good friend who is a Cowboy fan  
Big Blue '56 : 1/19/2020 8:42 am : link
In comment 14784861 John In CO said:
Quote:
He absolutely HATED Garrett as a head coach. Was counting down the days until he was gone.

However, talking to him last night, had nothing but positive things to say about him as a coordinator. Seems to feel exactly how we feel about Shurmur: really good coordinator, but a horrible head coach.


Except Garrett was not a “horrible” HC. I’d say Shurmur turned out to be.
RE: RE: Have a good friend who is a Cowboy fan  
bradshaw44 : 1/19/2020 8:46 am : link
In comment 14785300 Big Blue '56 said:
Quote:
In comment 14784861 John In CO said:


Quote:


He absolutely HATED Garrett as a head coach. Was counting down the days until he was gone.

However, talking to him last night, had nothing but positive things to say about him as a coordinator. Seems to feel exactly how we feel about Shurmur: really good coordinator, but a horrible head coach.



Except Garrett was not a “horrible” HC. I’d say Shurmur turned out to be.


Exactly. The guy is an above .500 coach after a ten year stint. I’d say that’s light years better than Shurmur. And now he’s our OC. I’ll take it.

Let’s not forget he was OC in Dallas while Romo was at his best. Maybe Garett had something to do with that?
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