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Mike Lombardi thoughts on Garrett hiring as OC-

Sean : 1/18/2020 9:37 am
-Thus far, Jones has been developed in the WCO system; however, Garrett was brought up in the Norv Turner system. How will the offensive system look?

-Garrett will be the HC of the offense.

-Garrett is an unknown in a lot of ways, he hasnít called plays in a long time.

It will be very interesting to see Jones in this new system.
Link - ( New Window )
I am not the least bit concerned  
Jay on the Island : 1/18/2020 9:44 am : link
Dak Prescott's main weakness is throwing downfield and he put up excellent numbers under Garrett. While this offense might better suit Eli I think Jones will thrive under Garrett.
As an aside,  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 1/18/2020 9:44 am : link
I wish I loved anybody as much as Mike Lombardi loves Mike Lombardi.
Nobody includes "GM" in the name of everything he does like Lombardi  
Eric on Li : 1/18/2020 9:48 am : link
he seems to get more mileage out of a position he held for about 5 minutes than anyone i've ever seen.

It would be like Carlos Beltran branding everything he does for the next year as "from the eye of a former Mets manager".
RE: As an aside,  
Ned In Atlanta : 1/18/2020 9:52 am : link
In comment 14784514 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:
Quote:
I wish I loved anybody as much as Mike Lombardi loves Mike Lombardi.



This x1000%. For a guy who had an unforgettable run as GM in Oakland and lasted less than a few months in Cleveland, he really has a high opinion of himself
RE: As an aside,  
Sean : 1/18/2020 9:58 am : link
In comment 14784514 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:
Quote:
I wish I loved anybody as much as Mike Lombardi loves Mike Lombardi.


Heís never been wrong when handicapping a NFL game. Heís either right or was originally right, but changed his mind like an idiot.

With that said, heís unusually blunt for someone in the media.
Now that the messenger has been shot  
HomerJones45 : 1/18/2020 10:02 am : link
how about dealing with the fact that he is right: Garrett is the HC of the offense and the only one on the staff with any HC experience. It's like appointing a guy from the executive training program as the CEO and then hiring the CEO from a competitor to run one of the company's divisions. Who will take orders from whom? How will conflict be addressed? What happens the first time the rookie CEO who has no experience at all with what that division does starts asking questions or issuing orders about it or questioning what the division head is doing in the middle of a production run?

I hope this works but it smacks of one that Giant specialty, the institutional compromise. We've seen how those work out.
Another empty, shitty take  
Mr. Bungle : 1/18/2020 10:03 am : link
from Mike Lombardi.
RE: Now that the messenger has been shot  
Big Rick in FL : 1/18/2020 10:19 am : link
In comment 14784538 HomerJones45 said:
Quote:
how about dealing with the fact that he is right: Garrett is the HC of the offense and the only one on the staff with any HC experience. It's like appointing a guy from the executive training program as the CEO and then hiring the CEO from a competitor to run one of the company's divisions. Who will take orders from whom? How will conflict be addressed? What happens the first time the rookie CEO who has no experience at all with what that division does starts asking questions or issuing orders about it or questioning what the division head is doing in the middle of a production run?

I hope this works but it smacks of one that Giant specialty, the institutional compromise. We've seen how those work out.


Holy shit. You're the worst. You came up with a bunch of reasons as to why Garrett wasn't going to take the job. Which you were wrong about and now you list off a bunch of made up negatives to try and help your original point.

NFL teams hire first time head coaches with veteran staff all the time. It's rarely ever a problem. Now all the sudden it's a big deal? Institutional compromise? What the fuck are you even talking about?
RE: Now that the messenger has been shot  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 1/18/2020 10:21 am : link
In comment 14784538 HomerJones45 said:
Quote:
how about dealing with the fact that he is right: Garrett is the HC of the offense and the only one on the staff with any HC experience. It's like appointing a guy from the executive training program as the CEO and then hiring the CEO from a competitor to run one of the company's divisions. Who will take orders from whom? How will conflict be addressed? What happens the first time the rookie CEO who has no experience at all with what that division does starts asking questions or issuing orders about it or questioning what the division head is doing in the middle of a production run?

I hope this works but it smacks of one that Giant specialty, the institutional compromise. We've seen how those work out.


I think you've made your point on every thread. We got it.
I think Homer compromised his very own intelligence  
Canton : 1/18/2020 10:23 am : link
I think they have ‚Äėinstitutions‚Äô for that..
RE: Now that the messenger has been shot  
Chris in Philly : 1/18/2020 10:25 am : link
In comment 14784538 HomerJones45 said:
Quote:
how about dealing with the fact that he is right: Garrett is the HC of the offense and the only one on the staff with any HC experience. It's like appointing a guy from the executive training program as the CEO and then hiring the CEO from a competitor to run one of the company's divisions. Who will take orders from whom? How will conflict be addressed? What happens the first time the rookie CEO who has no experience at all with what that division does starts asking questions or issuing orders about it or questioning what the division head is doing in the middle of a production run?

I hope this works but it smacks of one that Giant specialty, the institutional compromise. We've seen how those work out.


You have been miserable for 25 years. Congrats?
When I was young  
giant power : 1/18/2020 10:46 am : link
Homer Jones was the best player on the Giants. For that reason, he had a commercial on TV for a Kid's board game. His only spoken line was at the end of the commercial where he stated in 1st grade level English: "I can play, you can play". Our own Homerjones picked his handle appropriately. The next intelligent post this dude puts up will be his very FIRST!!
Judge strikes me as a very strong leader.  
yatqb : 1/18/2020 10:48 am : link
Heís not gonna give up that leadership to JG. Belichick doesnít call plays but you can be sure that he influences decisions throughout games. It will be the same here.
Took about two minutes of watching Judge in action  
Oscar : 1/18/2020 10:50 am : link
To eliminate any concern I had about him getting overshadowed or undermined by a coordinator. He will be in complete control, this isnít another Shurmur or McAdoo.
RE: As an aside,  
Peter from NH (formerly CT) : 1/18/2020 11:10 am : link
In comment 14784514 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:
Quote:
I wish I loved anybody as much as Mike Lombardi loves Mike Lombardi.


This. "Big hat, no cattle"

Guy also has such a weird issue with the Giants. Not sure where it comes from but it is pretty apparent. It is hard to take anything he says with regard to the Giants seriously.
Didnít the Giants  
McNally's_Nuts : 1/18/2020 11:12 am : link
hire his kid?
Who cares  
XBRONX : 1/18/2020 11:15 am : link
what Lombardi thinks?
RE: RE: Now that the messenger has been shot  
Mr. Bungle : 1/18/2020 11:34 am : link
In comment 14784572 Chris in Philly said:
Quote:

You have been miserable for 25 years. Congrats?

When every grand prediction you make ends up dead wrong and your read on the Giants' situation is consistently way, way off, you tend to become miserable.
Jones "Trained" in WC System?  
clatterbuck : 1/18/2020 11:53 am : link
Fwiw, he's coming off his rookie year, one camp, 14 games. It's not like he's a 10-year vet.
RE: I think Homer compromised his very own intelligence  
HomerJones45 : 1/18/2020 11:55 am : link
In comment 14784570 Canton said:
Quote:
I think they have ‚Äėinstitutions‚Äô for that..
Yuck yuck yuck. You must wow the drunks down at the tavern.
RE: RE: Now that the messenger has been shot  
HomerJones45 : 1/18/2020 11:58 am : link
In comment 14784563 Big Rick in FL said:
Quote:
In comment 14784538 HomerJones45 said:


Quote:


how about dealing with the fact that he is right: Garrett is the HC of the offense and the only one on the staff with any HC experience. It's like appointing a guy from the executive training program as the CEO and then hiring the CEO from a competitor to run one of the company's divisions. Who will take orders from whom? How will conflict be addressed? What happens the first time the rookie CEO who has no experience at all with what that division does starts asking questions or issuing orders about it or questioning what the division head is doing in the middle of a production run?

I hope this works but it smacks of one that Giant specialty, the institutional compromise. We've seen how those work out.



Holy shit. You're the worst. You came up with a bunch of reasons as to why Garrett wasn't going to take the job. Which you were wrong about and now you list off a bunch of made up negatives to try and help your original point.

NFL teams hire first time head coaches with veteran staff all the time. It's rarely ever a problem. Now all the sudden it's a big deal? Institutional compromise? What the fuck are you even talking about?
All the sunshine in FL has fried your brain. Try comprehension. All I said was it wasn't a given that he would take the job and that there were potential issues. Some of those issues remain whether anyone wants to recognize them or not. But that would require some thought on your part so forget it.
There are too many  
Manning10 : 1/18/2020 11:59 am : link
Gasbags giving opinions on TV , Radio and Podcasts (seems like everyone has a Pod)
I guess people watch them to have their own opinions validated by someone they may trust.
In reality they just throw crap on the wall to see if it sticks.
.  
Banks : 1/18/2020 11:59 am : link
first time in awhile I've heard him talk and not mention McDaniels
RE: RE: Now that the messenger has been shot  
HomerJones45 : 1/18/2020 12:00 pm : link
In comment 14784566 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
In comment 14784538 HomerJones45 said:


Quote:


how about dealing with the fact that he is right: Garrett is the HC of the offense and the only one on the staff with any HC experience. It's like appointing a guy from the executive training program as the CEO and then hiring the CEO from a competitor to run one of the company's divisions. Who will take orders from whom? How will conflict be addressed? What happens the first time the rookie CEO who has no experience at all with what that division does starts asking questions or issuing orders about it or questioning what the division head is doing in the middle of a production run?

I hope this works but it smacks of one that Giant specialty, the institutional compromise. We've seen how those work out.



I think you've made your point on every thread. We got it.
I thought if there were 15 threads on a discussion forum on what an amazing, wonderful and blessed event this was, it was possible to respond on three. Sorry.
The biggest thing Judge has said & repeated the most  
Motley Two : 1/18/2020 12:35 pm : link
Is developing and creating flexibility in schemes to fit with the players strengths.
That's what New England has done for years and Judge sounds serious about that being the approach, I'm not worried about Garrett being too rigid or married to one system.

This is kind of a unique opportunity for this coaching staff offensively with Barkley & Jones already in the building.
Every time I watch Lombardi  
JerrysKids : 1/18/2020 12:49 pm : link
I think to myself if his last name was smith he wouldnít last 5 minutes. All bluster and reeks of insecurity. Even though he has no relationship to Vince I do think having that last name gives him a edge he wouldnít have. Itís subliminal.
Iíve listened to Lombardi enough  
BSIMatt : 1/18/2020 12:59 pm : link
To have a low value of his opinion on anything.
On the one hand Lombardi's main point  
BlueLou'sBack : 1/18/2020 1:03 pm : link
seems to be that
A) since JG hasn't been an OC for 10 years, we don't know what kind of OC he will be or even what system he will run.

B) On the other hand he claims Garrett will run a "Norv Turner numbers offense" which he claims isn't consistent with Pat Shurmur's WCO.

C) NORV Turner coached, for the first 15 years of his career, on various west coast teams. Many years at USC, and finally the last 5 of those years with the LA Rams under offensive coordinator Ernie Zampese.

Wasn't Zampese a WCO guy who learned under Coryell?

Isn't Turner's offense a type of WCO?

ANYWAY making any claim like B above flies in the face of his own point A.

I don't trust three words out of Mike's mouth.

If somebody is more knowledgeable about Lombardi's claims, please explain WTF he's saying.
BlueLou  
Bill2 : 1/18/2020 1:14 pm : link
Trolls...even ones that get paid leave some tell tale clues:

One is never exactly taking a position or advocating a solution

Two is mostly looking backwards

Three is when looking forward to use backwards to infer forward without any intervening variables or analysis.

Too often:

Trolls think they aren't easy to spot.

Trolls think we are stupid

Trolls think far too much of themselves

Trolls don't actually try to make a contribution they just try to generate reactions

Trolls have the self awareness of a side hooked baby flounder yanked out of the water and flopping on the deck in the sunshine

Trolls don't change when they are wrong or spotted...they generate more flurry

imo...Lombardi fits to a T
RE: On the one hand Lombardi's main point  
BSIMatt : 1/18/2020 2:05 pm : link
In comment 14784784 BlueLou'sBack said:
Quote:
seems to be that
A) since JG hasn't been an OC for 10 years, we don't know what kind of OC he will be or even what system he will run.

B) On the other hand he claims Garrett will run a "Norv Turner numbers offense" which he claims isn't consistent with Pat Shurmur's WCO.

C) NORV Turner coached, for the first 15 years of his career, on various west coast teams. Many years at USC, and finally the last 5 of those years with the LA Rams under offensive coordinator Ernie Zampese.

Wasn't Zampese a WCO guy who learned under Coryell?

Isn't Turner's offense a type of WCO?

ANYWAY making any claim like B above flies in the face of his own point A.

I don't trust three words out of Mike's mouth.

If somebody is more knowledgeable about Lombardi's claims, please explain WTF he's saying.


Couple things on this, I went back and looked up JG's coaching career. He started as a QB coach under Saban(another coach who has ties to Belicheck, and also who Judge coached under).

The OC when Garret was QB coach for Saban with the Dolphins was Linehan. Linehan moved on and Garrett's second year with Saban the OC was Mike Mularkey.

When Garret came on with Dallas, he served as OC from 2007-2010 till he took over as interim. When he was hired as the HC in 2011, the Cowboys did not staff an OC, in fact, even when they brought in Scott Linehan in 2014, Linehan did not take over playcallng duties and did not hold the title of OC, his title was passing game coordinator.

From 2015-2018 Linehan took the role of offensive coordinator in Dallas, 2015-2019 is the Span of Garrett's tenure in Dallas as HC where the Cowboys employed an assitant coach with the title of offensive coordinator.

Regarding the system...

Quote:

Base Offense: Air Coryell Hybrid

In what has to be considered a less-than-surprising move, the Dallas Cowboys have stripped head coach Jason Garrett of play-calling duties (via NFL.com). The writing was on the wall here, especially considering the Cowboys lack of success in the run game.

Offensive coordinator Bill Callahan will now take over play-calling duties.

This doesn't mean that the Cowboys' plans include changing their philosophy. They will focus more on the run than in the past, but the "Air Coryell" should still be in full force, or at least to an extent.

According to Garrett, Tony Romo has been successful running this in the past (from 2011, via Blogging the Boys):

Romo was pretty good from the start," Garrett says in the book. "But we absolutely had to coach him to get away from the center. And we've had to coach receivers to get off the ball. Like Ernie always said: 'Speed, speed, speed.' None of that changes.

It's a timing-based offense. The quarterback, in this case Romo, throws the ball to a target and spreads the field. The overall philosophy is to force the defense to cover the entire field and give receivers an ability to make plays in the open field.

In a perfect world, Dez Bryant fits great into this scheme. He is one of the most electric receivers with the ball in his hands, which is an important point of emphasis in this type of attack.

Blogging the Boys is also reporting that Dallas my start using the terminology of the Erhardt-Perkins scheme, which enables the play call to get to the field much quicker. It also focuses more on concepts than actual route trees and specific plays. This system has been popularized by the New England Patriots over the years. ...


So, the pairing of Judge from the Patriots, with Garret..does seem to indicate the Giants are parting ways with West Coast based system to some version of Air Coryell/Erhardt-Perkins hybrid..

Identifying Every NFL Team's Base Offense - ( New Window )
Ahh...  
FatMan in Charlotte : 1/18/2020 2:12 pm : link
Homer and the good old "Giants Way" proclamation.

I'm still wondering how that's looked at as a bad thing.
RE: Judge strikes me as a very strong leader.  
TMS : 1/18/2020 2:22 pm : link
In comment 14784600 yatqb said:
Quote:
Heís not gonna give up that leadership to JG. Belichick doesnít call plays but you can be sure that he influences decisions throughout games. It will be the same here.
. Agree here. Judge has a plan and he sold it to a lot of people so far. Lets give him the benefit and get lives.
Bill2 thanks for laying that out, always appreciate  
BlueLou'sBack : 1/18/2020 2:33 pm : link
your concise mind and explanation. One point we both left out is that another sign of a troll is the pretense of addressing a situation or event without ever actually discussing or even acknowledging the core issue. Like what was Garrett's history and record as an OC?

BSIMatt, I understand Perkins and Earnhardt ran something distinct from a WCO, but aren't Air Coryell and Zampese's system variations on the WCO? Just as Bill Walsh's was? Or Andy Reid's (and through him Pat Shurmur's) offenses likewise individual variations or hybridizations of the WCO? Living in the SF Bay area during Walsh's zenith as 49er's HC, it was as obvious as all heck that timing and speed off the snap were two of the biggest principles and practices Walsh taught.
No N in  
BlueLou'sBack : 1/18/2020 2:36 pm : link
Earhardt...
This concern about Garrett vis a vis Judge  
Daniel in MI : 1/18/2020 2:48 pm : link
Must be impossible to deal with. Unless like adults they had this brief interchange:

JJ: You have been a HC for 10 years, you think coming here to work under a HC will be an issue?

JG: No, I get it. As a former HC I know what kind of support I wanted and Iíll try to give you that. But itís your team. I wonít undermine you. In fact the fastest way to get another shot is to succeed as a team and make this O work. Iím happy to be a sounding board on HC things if I can help, but Iíll leave that to you if you want that.

JJ: great, I appreciate that.

End scene

Seems impossible!
Pretty sure he remembers  
trueblueinpw : 1/18/2020 2:55 pm : link
how to call plays.
Didnt even have to read his comments  
John In CO : 1/18/2020 3:00 pm : link
As soon as I saw the name "Mike Lombardi" I knew this would be a negative spin. As a reader of the Athletic, I dont think I saw one remotely positive comment from him all year on anything related to the Giants. I don't know what the Giants did to him, but he definitely has some issue there.
homerjones  
LakeGeorgeGiant : 1/18/2020 3:59 pm : link
is the quintessential old Giants fan. Constant negativity.
RE: homerjones  
Saquads26 : 1/18/2020 4:10 pm : link
In comment 14784892 LakeGeorgeGiant said:
Quote:
is the quintessential old Giants fan. Constant negativity.


Yep

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