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NFT: The Royal Carribean grandfather

spike : 1/18/2020 9:41 pm
""When he arrives at the open window, and while Chloe is on the floor, Mr. Anello leans his upper-torso over the wooden railing and out of the window frame for approximately eight seconds," reads the motion to dismiss, which was filed on January 8. "Because Mr. Anello had himself leaned out the window, he was well aware that the window was open.""


This is a follow up to the original thread, showing the grandfather actually leaning through the open window, before picking his granddaughter up.


video - ( New Window )
So he let her fall out?  
Jalapeno : 1/18/2020 9:44 pm : link
Or?
The truth in this was always obvious  
Greg from LI : 1/18/2020 9:53 pm : link
The grandfather, possibly after having too much to drink, recklessly held the girl over the railing. The idea that he just didn't know the window was open was always ridiculous to anyone who has been on one of those ships.
The nerve of that asshole to go on TV  
widmerseyebrow : 1/18/2020 10:32 pm : link
to pump his lawsuit. Best case scenario he was too drunk to remember what actually happened, but again, why are you appearing on TV?
That was actually much worse than I imagined  
widmerseyebrow : 1/18/2020 10:34 pm : link
Looks like he completely lifted up, over, and outside the ship. Didn't look like he propped her up on the railing and she just wriggled out of his grasp. Fucking Christ what a maniac.
What a shock! Can someone please pull up that old thread.  
Zeke's Alibi : 1/18/2020 11:09 pm : link
Jesus I can't believe how foolish some people are, totally ready to believe anything. Jessie Smollete part 2.
.  
Banks : 1/19/2020 12:46 am : link
I don't know how he can live with himself.
There is no doubt after seeing this  
montanagiant : 1/19/2020 1:02 am : link
That the Grandfather is 100% to blame here
In one of the old threads I said  
steve in ky : 1/19/2020 1:10 am : link
That I thought if the family would have accepted it as an accidental tragedy and not looked to blame someone else and pursue a monetary gain by filing a lawsuit then the grandfather likely never gets charged. But they did and now the evidence clearly finds him negligent.

Did they really think the truth wouldnt come out  
bubba0825 : 1/19/2020 7:47 am : link
There are camera everywhere on a ship like that. The grandfather should go to jail. I hope the parents were lied to as well considering they were on national tv before there daughter was buried.
RE: The truth in this was always obvious  
Jay on the Island : 1/19/2020 10:46 am : link
In comment 14785126 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
The grandfather, possibly after having too much to drink, recklessly held the girl over the railing. The idea that he just didn't know the window was open was always ridiculous to anyone who has been on one of those ships.

I was on that very ship years ago. I remember that open window and it was very obvious that it was open especially if there is any wind. Since this happened I have been shocked that this guy claimed he didn't realize it wasn't open. The rest of the windows are tinted too which makes it stand out more.
RE: That was actually much worse than I imagined  
Jay on the Island : 1/19/2020 10:51 am : link
In comment 14785150 widmerseyebrow said:
Quote:
Looks like he completely lifted up, over, and outside the ship. Didn't look like he propped her up on the railing and she just wriggled out of his grasp. Fucking Christ what a maniac.

You're right which makes this that much more disturbing. He appears to not place her on the railing at all.
He must have  
Pete in MD : 1/19/2020 11:12 am : link
lied to the girl's parents about what happened and they ran with it, getting lawyers and such. It's very obvious he deliberately dangled her out of the open window, possibly to be cute or something, and lost his grip.
RE: .  
GiantGolfer : 1/19/2020 12:35 pm : link
In comment 14785189 Banks said:
Quote:
I don't know how he can live with himself.


+1

RE: RE: .  
Eman11 : 1/19/2020 2:36 pm : link
In comment 14785553 GiantGolfer said:
Quote:
In comment 14785189 Banks said:


Quote:


I don't know how he can live with himself.



+1


Seriously if what we see in that video is actually what happened and not what he said at the time, I'd have checked out that very day. Probably even followed her out the window.

I have two grown kids and a new grand daughter and there's no way I could live with myself after that. A tragic accident would be hard enough to live with if I was watching her but my own stupidity and negligence causing her death? No friggin way.
Very damn sad. Very sad that  
section125 : 1/19/2020 4:01 pm : link
he tried to pass this off on the ship. That was even more reckless than I could ever envision and if that is what the DA saw, then no wonder he was charged.

Cannot imagine that he would dangle a child out of a window 11 stories up..
RE: Very damn sad. Very sad that  
Jay on the Island : 1/19/2020 4:19 pm : link
In comment 14785794 section125 said:
Quote:
he tried to pass this off on the ship. That was even more reckless than I could ever envision and if that is what the DA saw, then no wonder he was charged.

Cannot imagine that he would dangle a child out of a window 11 stories up..

It is very tragic and I personally wouldn't be able to live with this if I was in his shoes. Nobody wants to be held accountable for their own mistakes anymore. The grandfather still claims he didn't know the window was open yet he held the baby there for 34 seconds!

People like this make it  
bubba0825 : 1/19/2020 4:32 pm : link
Harder for legitimate lawsuits of negligence possible, they did interviews with the national media and lied for the possibility of money
RE: People like this make it  
section125 : 1/19/2020 4:36 pm : link
In comment 14785840 bubba0825 said:
Quote:
Harder for legitimate lawsuits of negligence possible, they did interviews with the national media and lied for the possibility of money


It is why the UK system is better. Lawyer gets fined for frivolous filings. No fishing expeditions. You either have a legitimate case to be brought before the court or it is passed on.
Its not out of the question  
Jim in Fairfax : 1/19/2020 4:39 pm : link
that hes speaking honestly. Traumatic events can have dramatic effects on how the brain processes memories. He may honestly remember the event as he portrays it.
Jim - His public accounts  
Matt M. : 1/19/2020 6:01 pm : link
don't even remotely jive with that video.
A few thoughts  
Matt M. : 1/19/2020 6:05 pm : link
1) On what grounds would they even consider removing that video from public record? That's exhibit A.

2) At this point, he's lucky those interviews weren't deposition or in a courtroom because then he would have perjury tacked on.

3) The family was so aggressive with this, I think Royal Caribbean would have a decent counter suit.
I wonder if the reprehensible Today Show  
Bill L : 1/19/2020 7:57 pm : link
Will do a retraction story?
RE: Did they really think the truth wouldnt come out  
djm : 1/19/2020 8:17 pm : link
In comment 14785280 bubba0825 said:
Quote:
There are camera everywhere on a ship like that. The grandfather should go to jail. I hope the parents were lied to as well considering they were on national tv before there daughter was buried.


Sending the guy to jail is a little much. If he wanted to drop the kid on hes a monster and needs to be removed from society ASAP, but this sounds like it was an accident. The guy is likely ruined for life and was trying to deflect the blame. Is this guy really in need of prison time?
RE: I wonder if the reprehensible Today Show  
FatMan in Charlotte : 1/19/2020 8:20 pm : link
In comment 14786187 Bill L said:
Quote:
Will do a retraction story?


That was shameful. It was like an infomercial for the legal fund of the family.
RE: RE: RE: .  
djm : 1/19/2020 8:23 pm : link
In comment 14785691 Eman11 said:
Quote:
In comment 14785553 GiantGolfer said:


Quote:


In comment 14785189 Banks said:


Quote:


I don't know how he can live with himself.



+1




Seriously if what we see in that video is actually what happened and not what he said at the time, I'd have checked out that very day. Probably even followed her out the window.

I have two grown kids and a new grand daughter and there's no way I could live with myself after that. A tragic accident would be hard enough to live with if I was watching her but my own stupidity and negligence causing her death? No friggin way.


This is my thoughts too. What bothers me more than anything is that hes now double downed on his story. The whole thing is terrifying and fucked up. I just have a hard time punishing that family anymore than they are. I doubt Sending the guy to prison helps matters, but man the guy really really fucked up. Just dont know how you can be so careless.
RE: I wonder if the reprehensible Today Show  
j_rud : 1/19/2020 8:23 pm : link
In comment 14786187 Bill L said:
Quote:
Will do a retraction story?


Accuracy and accountability in journalism? Surely you jest.
RE: RE: Did they really think the truth wouldnt come out  
bubba0825 : 1/19/2020 8:30 pm : link
In comment 14786234 djm said:
Quote:
In comment 14785280 bubba0825 said:


Quote:


There are camera everywhere on a ship like that. The grandfather should go to jail. I hope the parents were lied to as well considering they were on national tv before there daughter was buried.



Sending the guy to jail is a little much. If he wanted to drop the kid on hes a monster and needs to be removed from society ASAP, but this sounds like it was an accident. The guy is likely ruined for life and was trying to deflect the blame. Is this guy really in need of prison time?


Absolutely, hes directly responsible for a death of a child, and guilty of perjury, many people have seen jail time over traffic accidents that they are horrified by yet arent absolved of responsibility
Jail time..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 1/19/2020 9:29 pm : link
is harsh, but the family in their immediate "grief" went out and got a lawyer in an attempt to sway the story. They used talking points like - "Children's play area" - which was false and they talked about the grandfather thinking the window was closed and some crap about how the little girl would bang on the glass at hockey games. That take now seems like complete bullshit.

They really have nobody but themselves to blame. They suffered a tragedy and instead of absorbing it, they tried to get money out of it, not through a legitimate claim - but through a lie or lies.
I don't think jail time is unreasonable  
Matt M. : 1/19/2020 11:01 pm : link
First, now this goes beyond an accident. He knowingly held her out the open window. Negligence on her part caused the death. Even if you want to overlook that for punishment, how about the lying to authorities, slander, etc.
if his actions  
fkap : 1/19/2020 11:09 pm : link
add up to criminal negligence, his grief/self pitying/remorse/loss should not reduce the legal ramifications.

IF his version are shown to be a complete lie, I would say his actions, including attempts to use media outlets to spread misinformation, should counter any 'he's suffered enough' sentimentality.

I find it very hard to work up any sympathy for the guy. It looks like he did a very stupid thing that cost a child her life, and then is trying to cover his ass and blaming the cruise line.
RE: I don't think jail time is unreasonable  
Matt M. : 1/20/2020 12:17 am : link
In comment 14786441 Matt M. said:
Quote:
First, now this goes beyond an accident. He knowingly held her out the open window. Negligence on her part caused the death. Even if you want to overlook that for punishment, how about the lying to authorities, slander, etc.
Throw in fraud for their act on national TV to draw sympathy and financial support.

They obviously thought their act would win over the court of public opinion enough to make Royal Caribbean settle. Now that it clearly backfired, they are going to continue the charade?
RE: if his actions  
Matt M. : 1/20/2020 12:18 am : link
In comment 14786449 fkap said:
Quote:
add up to criminal negligence, his grief/self pitying/remorse/loss should not reduce the legal ramifications.

IF his version are shown to be a complete lie, I would say his actions, including attempts to use media outlets to spread misinformation, should counter any 'he's suffered enough' sentimentality.

I find it very hard to work up any sympathy for the guy. It looks like he did a very stupid thing that cost a child her life, and then is trying to cover his ass and blaming the cruise line.
Agreed. Plus, this is now amounting to much more than a tragic accident. His actions are now being proven to actually be negligent.
The really..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 1/20/2020 8:21 am : link
horrific thing in this case is that there is a possibility that the Grandfather intentionally dropped the child to death.

That's absolutely crazy.
RE: The really..  
section125 : 1/20/2020 10:01 am : link
In comment 14786598 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
horrific thing in this case is that there is a possibility that the Grandfather intentionally dropped the child to death.

That's absolutely crazy.


I actually entertained that idea for a nano-second(well maybe a bit more). As sick as this is, did that child have a horrific disease? Did/does he have a drinking problem?

But holy shit, hold her out there 34 seconds - a squirmy little kid.
RE: RE: The really..  
SomeFan : 1/20/2020 10:04 am : link
In comment 14786743 section125 said:
Quote:
In comment 14786598 FatMan in Charlotte said:


Quote:


horrific thing in this case is that there is a possibility that the Grandfather intentionally dropped the child to death.

That's absolutely crazy.



I actually entertained that idea for a nano-second(well maybe a bit more). As sick as this is, did that child have a horrific disease? Did/does he have a drinking problem?

But holy shit, hold her out there 34 seconds - a squirmy little kid.


I don't see that as out of the realm of realistic possibilities.
I can't believe that the family lawyer is disputing this...  
rnargi : 1/20/2020 10:15 am : link
"It is clear that Royal Caribbean's tactic is to blame Chloe's grandfather rather than to accept that Royal Caribbean did not implement industry standards for toddler safety aboard its ships which ultimately led to Chloe's tragic death," Winkleman said in a statement. "Royal Caribbean has premised its defense in this case and its blame on Chloe's grandfather by supplying two deceptive views from its CCTV cameras to the court and the Puerto Rico authorities."

What the hell????? These are "deceptive views"????

RE: I can't believe that the family lawyer is disputing this...  
section125 : 1/20/2020 10:23 am : link
In comment 14786761 rnargi said:
Quote:
"It is clear that Royal Caribbean's tactic is to blame Chloe's grandfather rather than to accept that Royal Caribbean did not implement industry standards for toddler safety aboard its ships which ultimately led to Chloe's tragic death," Winkleman said in a statement. "Royal Caribbean has premised its defense in this case and its blame on Chloe's grandfather by supplying two deceptive views from its CCTV cameras to the court and the Puerto Rico authorities."

What the hell????? These are "deceptive views"????


Two lies there:
1.) RCCL did not implement industry safety standards - actually I'd bet they were exceeded. Standards are not that impressive.

2.) Two deceptive views from CCTV.
Ok, then, So did RCCL alter the images? Was it trick photography? That wasn't him and the baby?

Lawyer - in for a penny, in for a pound. Still hoping for a settlement and dropping of charges.
FatMan  
fkap : 1/20/2020 10:25 am : link
I thought the same thing, but sans any real evidence to point in that direction, that's a horrible specter to raise. It certainly is a possibility, but I put my money on the scenario that Grandpa looked out at the view, then hoisted up the kid to show her the view and she slipped out of his grasp.

If he wanted to be rid of the kid, wait til they're out to sea and drop her over the rail when no one is around. There were a lot of potential witnesses at the window scene.

He claims to be colorblind, and is using that as an excuse. I'm no expert, but I thought colorblind folk see shades, but just can't identify them. To me, he should still be able to see if a tinted window is open or not. Or, after a lifetime of coping, should realize that if he has difficulties in that department he needs to adapt to that by taking extra precautions, like actually touching the pane to ensure it is closed.
RE: FatMan  
section125 : 1/20/2020 10:34 am : link
In comment 14786774 fkap said:
Quote:
I thought the same thing, but sans any real evidence to point in that direction, that's a horrible specter to raise. It certainly is a possibility, but I put my money on the scenario that Grandpa looked out at the view, then hoisted up the kid to show her the view and she slipped out of his grasp.

If he wanted to be rid of the kid, wait til they're out to sea and drop her over the rail when no one is around. There were a lot of potential witnesses at the window scene.

He claims to be colorblind, and is using that as an excuse. I'm no expert, but I thought colorblind folk see shades, but just can't identify them. To me, he should still be able to see if a tinted window is open or not. Or, after a lifetime of coping, should realize that if he has difficulties in that department he needs to adapt to that by taking extra precautions, like actually touching the pane to ensure it is closed.


It is a horrific thought(intentional murder), but there are weird people in the world. Unfortunately it is one possibility, although infinitesimal at best. And your point of at sea is good, but there will still be passengers all around.
The color blind thing is out the window(sorry), he was leaning out the window himself before picking the kid up. So whether he could see shades of blue or not is irrelevant as he knew the window was open since he had just leaned out of it and held the baby out over the side.
RE: FatMan  
FatMan in Charlotte : 1/20/2020 10:36 am : link
In comment 14786774 fkap said:
Quote:
I thought the same thing, but sans any real evidence to point in that direction, that's a horrible specter to raise. It certainly is a possibility, but I put my money on the scenario that Grandpa looked out at the view, then hoisted up the kid to show her the view and she slipped out of his grasp.

If he wanted to be rid of the kid, wait til they're out to sea and drop her over the rail when no one is around. There were a lot of potential witnesses at the window scene.

He claims to be colorblind, and is using that as an excuse. I'm no expert, but I thought colorblind folk see shades, but just can't identify them. To me, he should still be able to see if a tinted window is open or not. Or, after a lifetime of coping, should realize that if he has difficulties in that department he needs to adapt to that by taking extra precautions, like actually touching the pane to ensure it is closed.


The only reason I brought that possibility up is because of the ridiculous stories that the family floated. After seeing the guy stick his head out the window before holding the girl up, that sort of blows out of the water the idea that he was colorblind and thought the window was closed or that he was holding her up to bang on the glass like at hockey games. I always thought that angle was a ridiculous one anyway. It isn't a hockey game, so who would she be banging on the glass to see??

The worst thing about this situation is that you naturally have people painting royal Caribbean as some gigantic corporation who makes a ton of money, so they should pay out any claim. You even had people saying right after this happened that Royal Caribbean has a duty to keep their passengers safe - even if the Grandfather was negligent.

All that showed me was that people really have abdicated the idea of personal responsibility, especially when arguing the concepts of tinted windows, color blindness and the parameters of a children's play area.
Grandpa was offered a plea deal  
fkap : 1/20/2020 10:37 am : link
no jail, minimal probation. Just accept guilt of negligence.

Take that deal. Far too much risk in going to court.

But, it appears he and the family are digging in their heals. 3 possibilities:

-he truly thought the window was closed. (I think a case still is there for negligence)

-he is unwilling to admit he knowingly made a mistake and, having spouted the lie so much, so publicly, would rather risk a trial than swallow his pride.

-is holding out for a pay day, and a plea negates that.

Running a real risk of getting nothing and spending time in jail. It's too public for the cruise line to settle a nuisance suit, and no evidence (known to public) which would cause charges to be dismissed.
it's not really clear  
fkap : 1/20/2020 10:44 am : link
if the video shows him leaning out of the window. His head/shoulders disappear from view, but it looks to me that there are structural beams that may be blocking a view of the actual window. If that is so, he may have broken the plane of the window pane, but isn't certain (although I think it likely, or he put his face so close to it, he should have seen the window was open).
RE: it's not really clear  
rnargi : 1/20/2020 10:52 am : link
In comment 14786814 fkap said:
Quote:
if the video shows him leaning out of the window. His head/shoulders disappear from view, but it looks to me that there are structural beams that may be blocking a view of the actual window. If that is so, he may have broken the plane of the window pane, but isn't certain (although I think it likely, or he put his face so close to it, he should have seen the window was open).


I believe, from this view that was part of a news story last year, there is no doubt he had to know the window was open based on how he leaned out. Either that or he was blind drunk.
I don't know..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 1/20/2020 11:29 am : link
what I would do in that situation, but I certainly know it wouldn't be to immediately hire counsel, do a series of interviews placing blame on the cruise line and spreading misinformation on the situation. We'd probably have a huge family rift as we'd really be wondering what the fuck the Grandfather did and why he did it.

Going for a money grab seems like a really poor choice
RE: I don't know..  
section125 : 1/20/2020 11:38 am : link
In comment 14786870 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
what I would do in that situation, but ...


You would not have to do anything. I doubt you or anyone else here on BBI would hang their 18 month old granddaughter out a window 11 stories high, no matter how spectacular the view. In fact it gives me the creep just thinking about holding a kid anywhere near an open window that high.
section..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 1/20/2020 12:03 pm : link
I agree with that and hope I don't ever have to even tangentally be associated with an event like this.
At this point  
Mike from Ohio : 1/20/2020 1:12 pm : link
I wonder if the family is not getting advice from the lawyers that is essentially - "just get in front of a jury." There is probably still a shot that if you pick the jury right, you may get folks who see RC as a deep pocketed corporation and the plaintiffs as tragic figures and give them money despite what the evidence shows.

It's sad, but for unscrupulous people, that is not an unreasonable plan nor one with zero chance of paying off. Juries sometimes like to way emotion over evidence.
rnargi  
fkap : 1/20/2020 1:17 pm : link
I find it incredibly hard to believe he didn't know the window was open. a simulation of a person leaning out vs not leaning out, using the same camera angle would shed more light on it. Just saying, the support structure may be blocking the view of the camera.

I think he held the girl up to show her the view and shit happened. he immediately went with the closed window story to cover up his stupidity. He may even be sticking to that story with his family rather than admit he was at fault for killing their child, and they would rather believe it instead of accepting that Grandpa acted negligently.

RE: At this point  
Matt M. : 1/20/2020 2:05 pm : link
In comment 14787048 Mike from Ohio said:
Quote:
I wonder if the family is not getting advice from the lawyers that is essentially - "just get in front of a jury." There is probably still a shot that if you pick the jury right, you may get folks who see RC as a deep pocketed corporation and the plaintiffs as tragic figures and give them money despite what the evidence shows.

It's sad, but for unscrupulous people, that is not an unreasonable plan nor one with zero chance of paying off. Juries sometimes like to way emotion over evidence.
Without him accepting a plea, he is still facing the charges related to the death. If he is found guilty, they have no civil suit.
If there..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 1/20/2020 2:52 pm : link
is a civil suit, it really should be the parents vs. the Grandfather.

Anything else is a mockery and a waste of the judicial system's time
Maybe he had a senior  
xman : 1/20/2020 7:09 pm : link
moment
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