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Are you feeling good about the state of the team thus far?

Sean : 1/19/2020 9:47 am
Itís been 3 weeks since the season ended. Unfortunately, the season was lost in October again, so the speculation begun early this year. Iíd say the overall feeling here was that Shurmur would be retained while his staff would be overhauled. A lot here thought that Mara would not want to fire Shurmur so soon.

As the losses piled up though, it was tougher and tougher to envision Shurmur returning. The question then turned to Gettleman. A nice Eli farewell win was able to distract everyone briefly. But, a lot has happened in 3 weeks:

-Most people here said Mara would go the safe route with HC (Rivera, McCarthy or Garrett). He did not go this route, he went far riskier. Taking a chance on Joe Judge & finally hiring a true CEO type coach. The hire is refreshing to me, because it represents a change in direction (less focused on the offense, more on the program/overall team).

-Judge seems to have full authority on the staff. People will point to Garrett as reason to not think this, but I donít buy that. Garrett started his coaching career under Saban. Most of the staff has Belichick/Saban routes.

-Gettleman being retained will bother a lot here, but Iím hoping that Judge develops a culture here and has full authority to do whatever it takes to build the program as he sees fit.

-The team has moved on from Eli. I give the Giants some slack here while many posters here give them none. So many here donít realize how difficult it is to move on from a franchise legend. A 2x SB MVP at QB, while the decline started in 2016, there was a human element here. It isnít an assembly line. If every franchise operated like an assembly line, Ben would be out in Pittsburgh this year. Rivers would absolutely be gone from the Chargers. There would be no question about Brady being out in NE.

The 2nd Super Bowl changed a lot here & yes, it led to a stretch of shitty football. But, there are a lot of high performing franchises which have NOT gotten that 2nd title with their current franchise QB (Saints, Packers currently), Colts never got there with Peyton. Point Iím trying to make here, it is finally a clean slate and the bandaid has been ripped off. Itís important.

I think we all get wrapped up in how a team should win. What do the analytics say? What are the trends? I still believe you need to build an identity & then do it exceptionally well. It doesnít matter how you play, you just need to be incredibly sound in however you play. The Titans are proof of this.

Free agency is very crucial. The goal should be to be shrewd & maintain cap flexibility. I hope Gettleman is telling the truth when he says heís going to put $20M aside and not touch it.

Overall, Iím encouraged & hopeful as to what this offseason brings.
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Yes  
UConn4523 : 1/19/2020 9:50 am : link
my take on Joe Judge is that itís a potentially franchise altering move, I donít see this being an average hire - itís going to crash and burn or we will have a good one that gets us back to a contending team in a couple years.

Very excited to get what looks like a competent person running the team.
Iím encouraged from a leadership standpoint, in that ....  
Crispino : 1/19/2020 9:53 am : link
I donít think the new blood could do worse than what weíve gone through in the last two coaching regimes. Now we need to see what they do with personnel and whether these guys can implement their philosophies with the personnel they accumulate.
Nope...  
M.S. : 1/19/2020 9:56 am : link

...the game is on the field.

If we see progress next season, everyone will feel better.

Until then, what's there to feel good about a laughing stock franchise sitting in the bottom of the NFL barrel?
RE: Yes  
aimrocky : 1/19/2020 10:02 am : link
In comment 14785373 UConn4523 said:
Quote:
my take on Joe Judge is that itís a potentially franchise altering move, I donít see this being an average hire - itís going to crash and burn or we will have a good one that gets us back to a contending team in a couple years.

Very excited to get what looks like a competent person running the team.


Couldnít agree more.... We needed to swing for the fences after bunting with the Shurmur hire.
Most of it is based on Judge, who is a complete unknown  
Go Terps : 1/19/2020 10:11 am : link
Most of us didn't know who Joe Judge was a few weeks ago. Maybe he's good, maybe he's bad. There's no way of knowing.

Elsewhere, the roster is still really bereft of talent in key areas. The entire OL is still in question, there is no good pass rusher, no good linebacker.

From a team building standpoint, the big question on the horizon is whether Barkley is truly worth considering a long term building block. As long as Gettleman is in the building the answer to that question will be yes.

Personally I'm pinning my hopes on Judge being the guy he appeared to be in his press conference, and seeing him gradually usurp team building responsibilities away from Gettleman...paving the way for a new structure once Gettleman leaves and Abrams is inevitably ushered in as the next GM. It's clear that the organizational change many of us think is needed is not coming. This is and will continue to be run as a family business. I have my fingers crossed that Judge will exert increasing influence through the weight of his competence and personality.
I feel good that we may have a new QB  
BillT : 1/19/2020 10:21 am : link
It all starts there and we at least have a chance that Jones is the real deal and we can go from there. Almost everything else is a open question. The coach and the staff are unknowns. On the field, we have Barkley but unit by unit there is a lot to be proven by every unit we have and some are known to be in need of major improvement. (OL, pass rush).

In total, this is a team with far more questions than answers.
RE: Nope...  
GeofromNJ : 1/19/2020 10:21 am : link
In comment 14785378 M.S. said:
Quote:

...the game is on the field.

If we see progress next season, everyone will feel better.

Until then, what's there to feel good about a laughing stock franchise sitting in the bottom of the NFL barrel?

correctamundo. I'll consider the corner turned when the Giants acquire a legitimate center, left tackle, and right tackle. We all know what the defense needs. No need to itemize that aspect.
I'm hopeful.  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 1/19/2020 10:24 am : link
I liked the Judge hiring. And I think coaching matters so much in this league. If the Giants had better coaching in '19, no chance in hell that's a 4 win team.
Yep, feel a lot better  
Oscar : 1/19/2020 10:25 am : link
I think Shurmur was a huge part of the problem. I think itís obvious Barkley was very limited by his injury. I really like the Judge hire. I also feel much better about the draft positioning now that Iíve spent more time watching some players besides Young. Would be thrilled to get Okudah or Simmons, Iím sure there are some good lineman too.

Future seems bright.
Like Judge  
Steve in ATL : 1/19/2020 10:31 am : link
hopeful that with a strong draft they can begin the climb back up this year with 8 wins.
the "team" that is  
Bill in UT : 1/19/2020 10:33 am : link
the players, haven't changed. We've got a few new coaches, the main one being the the head coach, who is an unknown. Same with the DC. I'm hopeful it's a change for the better, but nothing to feel especially good about at this point.
Yes  
larryflower37 : 1/19/2020 10:39 am : link
do I feel the talent currently on this team is a playoff team NO.
IMO coaching lost the Giants several games last year and set the young players development back.
the team last year had an opportunity to win 6 to 9 games.
I feel the upgrades at coordinator alone will improve the record of this team.
the 49ers were 4-12 last year with  
Rory : 1/19/2020 10:41 am : link
a majority of young defensive players in their 1st 2nd seasons. This season they are in the NFC championship.

I think a defensive scheme tailored to the talent that is already in place will make a monumental difference. hence why the Giants went with a guy like Patrick Graham

Judge made a point on numerous occasions to emphasize using players in the right positions

with Garrett in place to balance out the HC experience, I'm truly elated and excited.

Especially after being a Mets fan this week, Garrett signing was the best part of my week.

...  
christian : 1/19/2020 10:50 am : link
The Giants had issues at all levels; coaching, personnel, and on-field performance.

Presuming the coaching has improved, the next step is the general management not compounding or repeating mistakes.
Not even a little bit  
arniefez : 1/19/2020 10:54 am : link
I'm hopefully the new coach can overcome monumental almost insurmountable odds but those odds are not in his favor.

The Mara's are still calling all the shots. Gettleman and Abrams are still the figureheads carrying out their orders. Good luck Joe you're going to need it.
RE: Most of it is based on Judge, who is a complete unknown  
Jim from Katonah : 1/19/2020 11:02 am : link
In comment 14785389 Go Terps said:
Quote:
Most of us didn't know who Joe Judge was a few weeks ago. Maybe he's good, maybe he's bad. There's no way of knowing.

Elsewhere, the roster is still really bereft of talent in key areas. The entire OL is still in question, there is no good pass rusher, no good linebacker.

From a team building standpoint, the big question on the horizon is whether Barkley is truly worth considering a long term building block. As long as Gettleman is in the building the answer to that question will be yes.

Personally I'm pinning my hopes on Judge being the guy he appeared to be in his press conference, and seeing him gradually usurp team building responsibilities away from Gettleman...paving the way for a new structure once Gettleman leaves and Abrams is inevitably ushered in as the next GM. It's clear that the organizational change many of us think is needed is not coming. This is and will continue to be run as a family business. I have my fingers crossed that Judge will exert increasing influence through the weight of his competence and personality.


Itís really hard to evaluate the level of ďtalentĒ on a team. Player performance can swing wildly based on coaching. At one point this year the Patriots OL was literally full of journeymen and 2nd and 3rd stringers ó and they performed better than high drafted Hernandez, Zeitler, Solder etc. There are million other examples of this ... look at how Amari Cooper immediately came back from the dead when he played for a different staff, or Tannehill ... or even Flowers.

Iím optimistic that Judge and his staff will be able to better utilize the ďtalentĒ we already have on the roster. I think if you put guys like Engram, Carter, Peppers, Baker in positions to succeed (like how all good coaches do) I think weíll see that the perceived talent gap with the good teams is not as big as it seems.

Yes I am cautiously hopeful. They definietly went outside their box  
Blue21 : 1/19/2020 11:02 am : link
in who they hired for HC. And who would have ever thought the Giants would go after a Garrett for an OC. Then chance a couple unknown college coaches for position coaches. What they've been doing hasn't worked so they are trying something different. To me it looks like they are pretty much giving Judge free reigns. He impressed the hell out of them and are jumping onto his roller coaster. Let's see what the draft and FA brings but so far this off season (for them anyway)has been fun.
it was gonna be hard to not feel better in any Shurmur gone scenario  
Eric on Li : 1/19/2020 11:03 am : link
that said Judge is a very exciting choice for HC. It is the high risk / high reward bet on leadership, pedigree, and intelligence we haven't made before because typically such hires are absent experience.

Mcadoo was close, the only issue there was his pedigree was questionable both as a Mccarthy protege and mediocre OC prior to getting the bump up to HC. The leadership also fell apart in turmoil. That's a decision where comfort and continuity unfortunately trumped the actual talent.

As for the rest it was music to my ears to hear mara say they aren't going to go crazy in FA even with all the cap room. That's the right call. Bring in some guys who have experience in the new systems to fill gaps on the roster and focus on the draft. That's 1 area where DG has shined so I have confidence that could be the case again with another couple high picks.
.  
Danny Kanell : 1/19/2020 11:17 am : link
I will say this fully acknowledging he is a complete unknown....I havenít been this excited about a head coach hiring in all my years as a fan. Even more than Coughlin.

Everything he said about his philosophy was everything I personally believe a head coach should be. Whether that translates to the field by someone who has never been a head coach remains to be seen.

But everything thatís transpired since they hired him has me bought in. And I was a huge Rhule guy.

I also think reading between the lines with every interview Gettleman has had since the season ended, heís been significantly neutered with personnel decisions. I donít think they wanted to fire him because of how it looks firing a GM 2 years in but while the appearance will be that he continues to have final say, I donít think he does.

I think we are headed in the right direction.
Not Really Feeling Any Better  
BlueVinnie : 1/19/2020 11:18 am : link
I need to see the results on the field. Yes, Judge sounded great in his presser but a lot of new Head Coaches sound good at that point.

Regarding Judge, Mara said "we need to be more patient than we have in the past because he is a brand new head coach and he is 38 years of age". WTF!!! The position of NY Giant head coach should not be an apprenticeship. We need to show marked W-L improvement in 2020 and either make the playoffs or have a chance to make the playoffs in week 17 of the 2021 season.

Regarding analytics, we of course heard the DG "4 computer guys" quote. When Mara was asked specifically (on Maggie and Moose) what improvements/progress they've made in the area of analytics, Mara couldn't answer the question. In the words of the great George Constanza, "he was be-boppin' and scattin" all over the question. "We've brought in some new folks" was the closest Mara came to answering.

Finally, Kevin Abrams...
I agree with Terps who previously noted that he hopes Judge can take more of the personnel responsibility. Hopefully if Judge is successful as the HC, he will have the power over the final 53 and Abrams (if indeed he is the next GM) is rendered the Finance and Operations guy.
RE: the 49ers were 4-12 last year with  
Giants38 : 1/19/2020 11:19 am : link
In comment 14785427 Rory said:
Quote:
a majority of young defensive players in their 1st 2nd seasons. This season they are in the NFC championship.

I think a defensive scheme tailored to the talent that is already in place will make a monumental difference. hence why the Giants went with a guy like Patrick Graham

Judge made a point on numerous occasions to emphasize using players in the right positions

with Garrett in place to balance out the HC experience, I'm truly elated and excited.

Especially after being a Mets fan this week, Garrett signing was the best part of my week.


Hard to compare our two situations. This year, they got Jimmy G. back from injury, which was a big contributor to their 4-12 season last year. They also traded a second round pick for Dee Ford and then drafted Nick Bosa with the second overall pick. Nick Bosa was one of the most disruptive pass rushers in the league, and that was even more accentuated when Dee Ford was healthy. They were almost impossible to block when Bosa and Ford were on the field together. It is hard to see our pass rush taking that kind of leap next year.

Now, we do have Daniel Jones, and if he takes a second year leap, it could be like getting Jimmy G. back. But it's hard to see us getting a line like SF has any time soon.

Not meant to be a Debbie Downer, but we need massive leaps from all of our young guys to be really competitive next year. We also need LBs, because we have none that we can count on.
hard to tell, but not really  
mdc1 : 1/19/2020 11:21 am : link
we have been bad and mismanaged for so long. We hired a first year coach, and a former coach as an OC. It is prove it time, and enough of the "good stuff" talk and whiteboard visions and strategies.

Makes me wonder if the owners are uncertain and not confident as well. I hope they can seriously turn this around, but the hole is very large and I think it is going to take years to dig out of the incompetence and bad decisions of the past. The best thing this club can do now is hold player evaluations and find out who can really play football and establish a winning culture.
These are the same players...  
EricJ : 1/19/2020 11:22 am : link
what am I missing here?
RE: Not Really Feeling Any Better  
Giants38 : 1/19/2020 11:28 am : link
In comment 14785463 BlueVinnie said:
Quote:
I need to see the results on the field. Yes, Judge sounded great in his presser but a lot of new Head Coaches sound good at that point.

Regarding Judge, Mara said "we need to be more patient than we have in the past because he is a brand new head coach and he is 38 years of age". WTF!!! The position of NY Giant head coach should not be an apprenticeship. We need to show marked W-L improvement in 2020 and either make the playoffs or have a chance to make the playoffs in week 17 of the 2021 season.

Regarding analytics, we of course heard the DG "4 computer guys" quote. When Mara was asked specifically (on Maggie and Moose) what improvements/progress they've made in the area of analytics, Mara couldn't answer the question. In the words of the great George Constanza, "he was be-boppin' and scattin" all over the question. "We've brought in some new folks" was the closest Mara came to answering.

Finally, Kevin Abrams...
I agree with Terps who previously noted that he hopes Judge can take more of the personnel responsibility. Hopefully if Judge is successful as the HC, he will have the power over the final 53 and Abrams (if indeed he is the next GM) is rendered the Finance and Operations guy.


To your point, Kevin Stefanski - when hired by the Browns - noted that analytics are important as "information is power". That is a direct quote. You don't have to live and die by analytics, but they unequivocally need to be incorporated into coaching the team. And for Gettleman to basically ignore them - and even worse, mock reporters who ask about them - is awful.

This team will not improve to where we need it to be until we do everything in our power to change it. Successful teams like the Chiefs, Patriots, and Eagles, use analytics religiously. They have fully staffed analytics departments. Doug Pederson speaks with his analytics people during games. Sure, the talent has to be there, as do the football minds on the coaching staff. But the Giants cannot ignore analytics and expect to get to the mountaintop. It just is not that kind of league anymore.

The fact that Gettleman said we have 4 computer guys, and Mara basically doesn't know what we have, shows you that analytics have not fought their way through through the Giants' cobwebs.

I hated Shurmur as a coach - he was terrible in managing games. But at least he showed that he was using some form of analytics to run the team, particularly when deciding whether to go for 2 after TDs.
Nope, not until  
Default : 1/19/2020 12:08 pm : link
I see results and Gettleman is gone.
RE: .  
Ryan in Albany : 1/19/2020 12:12 pm : link
In comment 14785461 Danny Kanell said:
Quote:
I will say this fully acknowledging he is a complete unknown....I havenít been this excited about a head coach hiring in all my years as a fan. Even more than Coughlin.

Everything he said about his philosophy was everything I personally believe a head coach should be. Whether that translates to the field by someone who has never been a head coach remains to be seen.

But everything thatís transpired since they hired him has me bought in. And I was a huge Rhule guy.

I also think reading between the lines with every interview Gettleman has had since the season ended, heís been significantly neutered with personnel decisions. I donít think they wanted to fire him because of how it looks firing a GM 2 years in but while the appearance will be that he continues to have final say, I donít think he does.

I think we are headed in the right direction.


+1
And bring on the Draft!!  
Ryan in Albany : 1/19/2020 12:14 pm : link
!
This was/is rock bottom.  
Britt in VA : 1/19/2020 12:25 pm : link
We will either continue to scrape the bottom or go back up.

People will say "it can always get worse" but it really can't. I wouldn't not feel much differently with an 0-16 season than I have felt about any of the past couple of years.
Gettleman...  
bw in dc : 1/19/2020 12:28 pm : link
needed to go. That was the real change that would have excited me. The fact that he kept his seat of power and will now have more money to spend is a real kick in the nuts.

Hiring Judge was bold. So Mara gets some props for getting out of his comfort zone. I don't put a lot of stock in the press conference and how Judge sounded. This addiction and comfort around here to style bewilders me. At the end of the day, Judge needs to figure out how to manage and win games. And none of us have any idea if he's got the right stuff...

I actually liked the hiring of Garrett. I don't think he's anything special as a play caller, but he's going to be an excellent sounding board for this young coach. The experience that he brings is a huge asset to Judge.

I am not bullish on where this LW situation takes us...That is going to be very interesting for setting the table.
RE: This was/is rock bottom.  
Big Blue '56 : 1/19/2020 12:29 pm : link
In comment 14785534 Britt in VA said:
Quote:
We will either continue to scrape the bottom or go back up.

People will say "it can always get worse" but it really can't. I wouldn't not feel much differently with an 0-16 season than I have felt about any of the past couple of years.


Actually, you might. At 0-16, weíd get the #1 pick of the draft..:)
I don't know if it can get worse  
Go Terps : 1/19/2020 12:36 pm : link
These last eight years have been pathetic, and these last two have been particularly embarrassing - the worst I've ever seen it get in 30+ years as a fan. But just because it can't get much worse doesn't necessarily mean it will get a lot better, or get better quickly. It really depends on Judge, because the people above him don't seem smart enough (Gettleman) or willing (Mara) to understand the changes necessary to bring this team to relevance.
No.  
Klaatu : 1/19/2020 12:40 pm : link
Maybe I'll feel better after I see what they do in free agency and the draft. We'll see.
RE: I don't know if it can get worse  
Sean : 1/19/2020 12:46 pm : link
In comment 14785554 Go Terps said:
Quote:
These last eight years have been pathetic, and these last two have been particularly embarrassing - the worst I've ever seen it get in 30+ years as a fan. But just because it can't get much worse doesn't necessarily mean it will get a lot better, or get better quickly. It really depends on Judge, because the people above him don't seem smart enough (Gettleman) or willing (Mara) to understand the changes necessary to bring this team to relevance.


Isnít a lot of it trying to win again with Eli? I feel that was a major part of the decision making in the past 6 years. McAdoo & Shurmur weíre hired with the intention to resurrect Eliís career.

As much as people harp on the way the Giants do business, Iíd be curious to see a study on how all these other teams who win are run.

The good teams have 2 things:

1. Strong coaching
2. Superb QB play

I donít know. Sometimes I think itís overstated how outdated the Giants are. They are a family business and are run as such, just Luke Dallas & Pittsburgh are. If you can get strong coaching & solid QB play, it goes a long way in winning.

I listen to a ton of Mike Lombardi who has been pounding down the flawed way the Giants are run, but he was on WIP sports radio in Philly 2 weeks ago talking about how the Eagles handled the OC/WR coach firings - Pederson was left in the dark and the decision was made above him. As Iím hearing him describe this, Iím thinking this is the same shit that goes on (or has) with the Giants. Yet, the Eagles are supposedly miles ahead of the Giants with regards to how they operate?

The bottom line is-

Find a good coach. Get solid QB play. Pressure the other QB. We havenít done any of that well in the last 6 years.
Sean  
Go Terps : 1/19/2020 12:51 pm : link
Your post leads into what I think is a big concern over the next few years: Gettleman's guys (Jones and Barkley) being on scholarship just like Eli has been the last few years.

Will the Giants consider trading Barkley instead of paying him? Doubtful.

Will the Giants consider searching for another quarterback if Jones doesn't take the step forward? We'll see.

I could easily see the same flawed approach with Eli being applied to the new "faces of the franchise".
RE: Sean  
Sean : 1/19/2020 12:57 pm : link
In comment 14785571 Go Terps said:
Quote:
Your post leads into what I think is a big concern over the next few years: Gettleman's guys (Jones and Barkley) being on scholarship just like Eli has been the last few years.

Will the Giants consider trading Barkley instead of paying him? Doubtful.

Will the Giants consider searching for another quarterback if Jones doesn't take the step forward? We'll see.

I could easily see the same flawed approach with Eli being applied to the new "faces of the franchise".


That isnít what Judge said in his presser. He specifically said he does not care where you were drafted or if youíre an UDFA, he will play the best players. He didnít even compliment Jones in his presser.

I do think it is an interesting thing to watch, because Belichick doesnít care about anything other than playing the best players. Thatís how Judge learned and what he said heís bringing here.
Barkley and Jones aren't playing on scholarship.  
Britt in VA : 1/19/2020 1:02 pm : link
They're playing because they're young and talented. That's a good thing.

If they're getting second contracts it's because they've earned it through their play, also a good thing.

The good teams are paying guys that much money, too. And it didn't hamstring them.
But how much say will Judge have?  
Go Terps : 1/19/2020 1:04 pm : link
If Judge decided Jones isn't his quarterback, will they go in another direction? Tough to imagine. Like Peter King said, it's tough to imagine anyone who doesn't think Jones is the guy getting the job.

At least Eli earned some of the leeway he got (though it went on for too long). Jones and Barkley haven't earned anything yet, but with the way the franchise operates you can't help but wonder if they truly are going to be made to earn a long term commitment before they actually get it.

Help me Joe Judge. You're my only hope.
To be fair, most organizations operate like that  
Sean : 1/19/2020 1:09 pm : link
-Bears with Trubisky
-Jets with Darnold
-Titans with Mariota
-Giants with Jones

Jones hasnít been a trainwreck, there is a lot to like. The Cardinals are the only team that changed direction that I can think of off a new hire.
I don't think they should move on from Jones yet  
Go Terps : 1/19/2020 1:20 pm : link
Not with Burrow out of the picture. But if Jones struggles this year (a possibility work a year's worth of film on him around the league) how much leeway are they going to give him? And is Barkley getting a contract already assumed?

I think these are the two biggest questions surrounding the roster.
So far so good.  
TMS : 1/19/2020 1:31 pm : link
Think Garret was a good hire and will help Judge realize his goals for the team stategy going forward. We will see.
The offense from 2019 is playoff caliber if the o-line comes together  
Ivan15 : 1/19/2020 1:32 pm : link
And the scheme and game management improves under the new OC. I fully expect that to happen.

The Defense is really open to question and we donít know if it was a personnel problem or DC problem. No matter where the blame falls, it will take a lot to happen for the D to be playoff caliber.

The D needs a game changing player. That player isnít found in free agency.
I am feeling good  
Mark from Jersey : 1/19/2020 1:43 pm : link
but can it really get any worse?

Seriously the Offense has talent and weapons just need a C and a tackles.

Defense is a bigger issues...some pieces in the secondary and up front but out LBs are still a large liability. We also have to get someone that OC's fear off the edge.
it's important to remember that judge  
japanhead : 1/19/2020 1:59 pm : link
was likely the HC they settled for after 1) waiting til end of season to fire shurmur thus losing out on rivera, and 2) having carolina beat them to the punch with rhule/making him an offer he couldn't refuse.

in this way it's similar to the shurmur hire when they were rebuffed by patricia or mcdaniels, except this time instead of being rebuffed, it was because mara was slower to get thee search started than other teams like the redskins and panthers.

how many patriots coaches have gone on to success elsewhere? very few. also, judge is younger than eli manning. it's entirely possible he's too green.

when the giants hired shurmur i thought there was no way he could be worse than mcadoo. i was certainly wrong there.

basically nothing mara does gives me any confidence at this point. his instincts over the past 7 years have been pathetically bad/wrong.
RE: Barkley and Jones aren't playing on scholarship.  
BlueVinnie : 1/19/2020 2:01 pm : link
In comment 14785585 Britt in VA said:
Quote:
They're playing because they're young and talented. That's a good thing.

If they're getting second contracts it's because they've earned it through their play, also a good thing.

The good teams are paying guys that much money, too. And it didn't hamstring them.


I don't agree when it comes to Barkely. It's normally not wise to give an RB a huge 2nd contract based on past performance. After 4- 5 years of heavy usage, will they still be playing at an elite level and how much longer can they be effective?
Yes!  
giantsFC : 1/19/2020 2:22 pm : link
Best I have felt in a decade.

Loved the Jason garret hire.

Joe Judge can now have some helpful vets to lean on
Results matter but ...  
Reale01 : 1/19/2020 2:27 pm : link
We have a new coaching staff that seems impressive
We have cap space
We have virtually no bad contracts that we are stuck on
A young QB that looks good so far
Other talented young players
Competent draft for the last two years
No more "leaks"
No more whining players

All this SHOULD lead to better results.
RE: Barkley and Jones aren't playing on scholarship.  
Jimmy Googs : 1/19/2020 2:44 pm : link
In comment 14785585 Britt in VA said:
Quote:
They're playing because they're young and talented. That's a good thing.

If they're getting second contracts it's because they've earned it through their play, also a good thing.



Yes, that would be a good thing. Although the much better "thing: is to think about the overall roster makeup and what changes have to be made to accommodate higher cap resources allocated to these individuals.

QB gives a far more leeway because as long as you see what you need to see in terms of early development, its much easier to fork over money to pay DJ for his second contract. However, do you want to go to the mattresses with Barkley and how his 6-10 years will be versus the first 5?

RE: Nope...  
djm : 1/19/2020 2:44 pm : link
In comment 14785378 M.S. said:
Quote:

...the game is on the field.

If we see progress next season, everyone will feel better.

Until then, what's there to feel good about a laughing stock franchise sitting in the bottom of the NFL barrel?


Fresh take.
Yes  
djm : 1/19/2020 2:48 pm : link
The number one question on this roster is saquon barkley.

Holy fucking shit youíre crazy. Get off the fucking ridiculous draft value argument already. If Barkley was the 15th overall pick youíd fucking love him. Fucking weird. Sorry, itís weird.

Barkley is absolutely and unequivocally the least of our problems. Heís a terrific player. And if we had Bradley Chubb weíd have a promising young passrusher who has yet to play at a super elite level with a ravaged knee. Iím just certain the giants would be soooooooo much better off right now with Chubb instead of Barkley.
RE: These are the same players...  
djm : 1/19/2020 2:51 pm : link
In comment 14785469 EricJ said:
Quote:
what am I missing here?


These same players will be a year older and more battle tested. There will also be more players brought in without many good players departing, if any at all. And an entirely new staff. Thatís a lot to miss.
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