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Daniel Jones: What the coaching hires on offense indicate

ColHowPepper : 1/19/2020 10:58 am
I think it's under-appreciated that the hires of Garrett and Schuplinski--their agreement and willingness to sign on with a floundering franchise--represent a pretty damn strong validation of DJ's potential, that he is a player they can build around. Garrett didn't have to jump to NYG as OC, an immediate step down from HC Dallas Cowboys. He could have sat out a year, or waited longer this offseason, to see what might materialize. Instead, he jumped to NYG in a matter of days after his contract expired.

Schuplinski: Garoppolo, Brissett, and Fitz sang his praises. He chose to become QB coach of a re-building NYG team instead of remaining with a similarly re-building Miami team with a slew of high picks in 2020 draft and an up and coming HC in Flores. Miami can position itself to have the pick of the QB litter in 2020. Yet Schuplinski elected to come here.
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Good stuff!
ChicagoMarty : 1/18/2020 2:05 pm : link : reply
I actually found Fitzpatrick's endorsement more meaningful than Marino's.
Fitz is one of the smartest guys in the game based on his Wonderlic
He is also a very experienced qb who has played for a lot of teams and coaches so he should know a good coach when he sees one.


With our OL in shambles, why hitch your horse to a team with a slew of questions and doubts on the offensive side of the ball? Schuplinski is a guy on the rise and a massive fail here would derail that career path. Garrett might want to re-position himself as HC down the road. Same consideration as for the QB coach.

One could also make an argument for JJ's decision to take the HC job, but that's a stretch, because the jump from ST Coordinator to HC NYG in and of itself is enough. Still, there were no bright young HC candidates vying for NYG job in 2018.
This Is Still  
clatterbuck : 1/19/2020 11:40 am : link
a premier franchise in the NFL and professional sports. There are four Lombardis in the building. Ownership is well-respected for integrity, treating players and staff well, and stability (maybe to a fault). The facilities are first-rate, if not flashy. The fan-base is passionate, and this area is still the top sports market in the world. There certainly is risk associated with reversing the downward trend over the past 10 years but the rewards for those who accomplish this are immense.
I Get What You're Saying But I Disagree With One Point  
Jim in Tampa : 1/19/2020 11:47 am : link
You say that "Miami can position itself to have the pick of the QB litter in 2020" and that's just not true.

Is it possible that they MAY be able to use their picks to trade up to the #1 overall spot? Yes it's possible, but I don't think it's too likely.

Burrow is from Ohio and Cincy needs both a QB and a big-name draw. I sincerely doubt that they trade the #1 overall pick, regardless of what another team offers.

So Schuplinski was actually giving up the slim possiblity that he could work with Burrow and a better than even chance that he could work with Tua for the "bird in the hand" of Daniel Jones.
I think CHP has a point  
Vanzetti : 1/19/2020 11:59 am : link
But I think the marquee nature of a job in NY is a more important factor.

That said, I do not think either one would have taken the job if they thought Jones was a bust
Garrett was not in quite the postion to sit out as some other coaches  
jeffusedtobeonwebtv : 1/19/2020 12:02 pm : link
His contract with Dallas ended. Usually head coaches are not allowed to go into a contract year being extended instead. Most head coaches when fired will still be paid for a year or more on their existing contract. This is not true for Garrett.
Garrett really liked  
Coach Red Beaulieu : 1/19/2020 12:07 pm : link
the black kitteh at Metlife.
RE: This Is Still  
ColHowPepper : 1/19/2020 12:09 pm : link
In comment 14785488 clatterbuck said:
Quote:
a premier franchise in the NFL and professional sports. There are four Lombardis in the building. Ownership is well-respected for integrity, treating players and staff well, and stability (maybe to a fault). The facilities are first-rate, if not flashy. The fan-base is passionate, and this area is still the top sports market in the world. There certainly is risk associated with reversing the downward trend over the past 10 years but the rewards for those who accomplish this are immense.
For sure, except one might want to quibble with a passionate fan-base, disillusioned and angry after eight years (- one) of failure. But passion comes in many flavors.

But to respond to your fair point, sure, there are significant positives associated with NYG franchise. But my point re Garrett and Schuplinski remains valid, I urge, because their careers are on the line, and association with a continued downward spiral even with an iconic franchise could leave them dead in the water, to the downside. One only has to look at the departures this season.

They are calculating their individual career arc here.
RE: I Get What You're Saying But I Disagree With One Point  
ColHowPepper : 1/19/2020 12:13 pm : link
In comment 14785492 Jim in Tampa said:
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You say that "Miami can position itself to have the pick of the QB litter in 2020" and that's just not true.

Is it possible that they MAY be able to use their picks to trade up to the #1 overall spot? Yes it's possible, but I don't think it's too likely......

So Schuplinski was actually giving up the slim possiblity that he could work with Burrow and a better than even chance that he could work with Tua for the "bird in the hand" of Daniel Jones.
Fair enough, but still possible, even as I agree that Bengals more likely hang on to their spot.

But, from draft day 2019 through much of this season, how much more glitter was generally sprinkled on Tua (injuries play a part) than the laugh-worthy selection by NYG at #6. Again, a calculus has been made, and it's definitely not a thumbs up for our OL.
Fitz is a Harvard guy  
BestFeature : 1/19/2020 12:14 pm : link
That speaks way more about how smart he is than a basic test. I really don't know why the Wonderlic is taken seriously.
RE: Garrett was not in quite the postion to sit out as some other coaches  
ColHowPepper : 1/19/2020 12:15 pm : link
In comment 14785504 jeffusedtobeonwebtv said:
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His contract with Dallas ended. Usually head coaches are not allowed to go into a contract year being extended instead. Most head coaches when fired will still be paid for a year or more on their existing contract. This is not true for Garrett.
jeff, he's had ~12 years w/ Boys. He could easily afford to sit for a year, I'm guessing, and wait for something more attractive. btw, what is the term of his contract as OC?
the other factor I thought to include in the OP is SB  
ColHowPepper : 1/19/2020 12:20 pm : link
and he represents upside as well, albeit his season was up and down.

Still another factor, how often on BBI we forgave Eli some bummer games and seasons because of this Eli. And for sure Jones needs to learn better ball security and pocket awareness, but he survived and put up some pretty darn good numbers in spite of routine jail breaks.

As much as PS helped his development, I think he hampered it with his inability to create OL blocking schemes, different sets, and a more imaginative set of play calls. The refusal to move on early from EE as TE has just been colossal stupidity, imo.
Garrett may be a 1 year OC  
Steve in ATL : 1/19/2020 12:29 pm : link
He will probably get HC interviews if Jones and the offense have a good year. Would Schuplinski be a good choice to step up to OC in 2021? Jones needing to learn a 3rd new offense in this 3rd season may slow his growth.
With all this said  
Earl the goat : 1/19/2020 12:46 pm : link
Draft should be spent on offense
O line
WR

Free agency money on defense
There’s to many youngsters on defense as is. Need veteran leadership
2 LBS. Schobert and Blake
Edge Rusher. Yannick or Judon or both Resign Williams
Safety. Byron Jones Free safety
Vanzetti  
ColHowPepper : 1/19/2020 1:01 pm : link
did I ever say I think you're a valuable contributor to BBI? Think you are (:
RE: With all this said  
Reale01 : 1/19/2020 1:02 pm : link
In comment 14785567 Earl the goat said:
Quote:
Draft should be spent on offense
O line
WR

Free agency money on defense
There’s to many youngsters on defense as is. Need veteran leadership
2 LBS. Schobert and Blake
Edge Rusher. Yannick or Judon or both Resign Williams
Safety. Byron Jones Free safety



Generally agree GOAT, It would also be nice to get an experienced Center in FA to hold things together. I would like to see us land two of the top six OTs in the draft.
Steve  
ColHowPepper : 1/19/2020 1:04 pm : link
Quote:
He will probably get HC interviews if Jones and the offense have a good year. Would Schuplinski be a good choice to step up to OC in 2021? Jones needing to learn a 3rd new offense in this 3rd season may slow his growth.
Have to hope that is the case, to your first. But would Schuplinski throw out the playbook if he were to succeed JG as OC after a successful year? Maybe some tinkering.

And just how JG revamps or tweaks PS's schemes will be interesting to watch.
RE: RE: Garrett was not in quite the postion to sit out as some other coaches  
Ivan15 : 1/19/2020 1:07 pm : link
In comment 14785523 ColHowPepper said:
Quote:
In comment 14785504 jeffusedtobeonwebtv said:


Quote:


His contract with Dallas ended. Usually head coaches are not allowed to go into a contract year being extended instead. Most head coaches when fired will still be paid for a year or more on their existing contract. This is not true for Garrett.

jeff, he's had ~12 years w/ Boys. He could easily afford to sit for a year, I'm guessing, and wait for something more attractive. btw, what is the term of his contract as OC?


You don’t know what his finances look like. Maybe he felt he needed the income and the work. But the point is that he is being given an opportunity to call plays, rebuild an offense and develop a QB without anyone meddling. Unlikely that JJ will interfere with what he wants to do. If he accomplishes that, he gets the credit which strengthens his credentials as more than a lackey doing Jerry Jones bidding.
Earl, couldn't agree more  
ColHowPepper : 1/19/2020 1:12 pm : link
The FOs of the past eight years, you could argue as many as ten, sabotaged the second half of Eli's career. Are they going to duplicate that mistake w/r/t what is now the franchise's most valuable asset in the making?

This is my biggest reservation about the GM and what may be the biggest, early, impact of Garrett, in making smart choices to enhance, not undermine, DJ's ability to compete. 3 big holes and an entirely incomprehensible, indefensible, dug-in commitment to Halapio (I did a thread on this inexplicable resort to Pio as default C last year, when most were content to say, "The coaching staff likes him"). Let Garrett and Judge have the laboring oar here. At the very least, let us not be wrong the same way it's been two years running with this group and 9-10 years overall.
Ivan  
ColHowPepper : 1/19/2020 1:15 pm : link
I don't (why I hedged with 'guessing'). Maybe, or maybe not, he loves the game and wants to be involved, for the reasons you state, a big one is DJ. And, yes, taking the Jerrah claws out of his backside to work with a blank slate must feel like liberation.
Why does it have to be about Jones?  
Bill L : 1/19/2020 1:20 pm : link
Maybe those guys have a better appreciation for DG and the “plan” overall than we do?
I would want Garrett here for at least two years  
Optimus-NY : 1/19/2020 1:34 pm : link
After that he can go looking around for HC offers. That would be my condition if I'm the H.C. or owner.
RE: RE: With all this said  
Earl the goat : 1/19/2020 1:46 pm : link
In comment 14785584 Reale01 said:
Quote:
In comment 14785567 Earl the goat said:


Quote:


Draft should be spent on offense
O line
WR

Free agency money on defense
There’s to many youngsters on defense as is. Need veteran leadership
2 LBS. Schobert and Blake
Edge Rusher. Yannick or Judon or both Resign Williams
Safety. Byron Jones Free safety




Generally agree GOAT, It would also be nice to get an experienced Center in FA to hold things together. I would like to see us land two of the top six OTs in the draft.


Tristan Wirfs. Mekhi Becton

RE: RE: RE: With all this said  
Reale01 : 1/19/2020 2:37 pm : link
In comment 14785632 Earl the goat said:
Quote:
In comment 14785584 Reale01 said:


Quote:


In comment 14785567 Earl the goat said:


Quote:


Draft should be spent on offense
O line
WR

Free agency money on defense
There’s to many youngsters on defense as is. Need veteran leadership
2 LBS. Schobert and Blake
Edge Rusher. Yannick or Judon or both Resign Williams
Safety. Byron Jones Free safety




Generally agree GOAT, It would also be nice to get an experienced Center in FA to hold things together. I would like to see us land two of the top six OTs in the draft.



Tristan Wirfs. Mekhi Becton


I would be attempting cartwheels and end up watching the games from a hospital bed.
RE: Why does it have to be about Jones?  
ColHowPepper : 1/19/2020 3:04 pm : link
In comment 14785603 Bill L said:
Quote:
Maybe those guys have a better appreciation for DG and the “plan” overall than we do?
Bill, I think this is disingenuous. Positing that DG's plan--notwithstanding epic wrong assessment of the team when he took over for '18, serious failures in OL construction, and firing his pick as HC after two seasons--is their reason for opting as OC and QB strikes me as willful blindness. You can't take DJ out of the equation. He might not be 100% of the driving factors in their decisions, but to argue that they see the flowering of DG's 'plan' is to assert that these guys are conjuring gold out of dross.
Yeaa we’re not drafting any  
tyrik13 : 1/19/2020 3:15 pm : link
O-line at 4. Unless we trade back, which at this point know DG ain’t about that life, the pick will be either Simmons or Okudah and possibly o-line in the 2nd which will be a OC.
^  
ColHowPepper : 1/19/2020 3:24 pm : link
reasonable. We need three pieces; DG's track record in FA is not good.
RE: Yeaa we’re not drafting any  
TMS : 1/19/2020 5:35 pm : link
In comment 14785746 tyrik13 said:
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O-line at 4. Unless we trade back, which at this point know DG ain’t about that life, the pick will be either Simmons or Okudah and possibly o-line in the 2nd which will be a OC.
. Spot on in the draft.
RE: the other factor I thought to include in the OP is SB  
Vanzetti : 1/19/2020 10:44 pm : link
In comment 14785528 ColHowPepper said:
Quote:
and he represents upside as well, albeit his season was up and down.

Still another factor, how often on BBI we forgave Eli some bummer games and seasons because of this Eli. And for sure Jones needs to learn better ball security and pocket awareness, but he survived and put up some pretty darn good numbers in spite of routine jail breaks.

As much as PS helped his development, I think he hampered it with his inability to create OL blocking schemes, different sets, and a more imaginative set of play calls. The refusal to move on early from EE as TE has just been colossal stupidity, imo.



Pocket awareness is difficult to teach at the professional level. Jones will get better but I think it will always be a bit of a weakness. Eli had it from day one. That’s why Jones has already missed more games to injury than Eli did in his entire career.
RE: ^  
section125 : 1/20/2020 8:06 am : link
In comment 14785760 ColHowPepper said:
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reasonable. We need three pieces; DG's track record in FA is not good.


FWIW, this is where I think Garrett can be a big influence. I'm sure DG talks to JJ, Graham and Garrett about FAs. With that much time, Garrett's opinion of FAs will be important. Dallas always seemed to do well in FA.
Garrett does have to rebuild his resume  
Rudy5757 : 1/20/2020 8:21 am : link
What better way than to work with a young QB which he has done several times and one of the best RBs in the league. Garrett's teams were continually picked to do much better than they actually did which is why his contract was not renewed.

Garrett is a very good OC and should improve this O because he uses his talent well. But being a good OC does not automatically make someone a good head coach.

As for this team, we need to go into the draft with a complete team. So in FA DG has to plug a lot of holes so we can draft more BPA than need. In FA we need to sign a tackle. That would at least be an upgrade which shouldn't be difficult and a C on O. On D we need to sign at least 1 top ER, Golden is not good enough. We need a LB and a slot CB and a FS. See what you get in the draft and then pick up some players in FA after the draft.
I dont necessarily agree with this  
GloryDayz : 1/20/2020 8:31 am : link
Quote:
"I think it's under-appreciated that the hires of Garrett and Schuplinski--their agreement and willingness to sign on with a floundering franchise--represent a pretty damn strong validation of DJ's potential, that he is a player they can build around. Garrett didn't have to jump to NYG as OC, an immediate step down from HC Dallas Cowboys. He could have sat out a year, or waited longer this offseason, to see what might materialize. Instead, he jumped to NYG in a matter of days after his contract expired."


I know coaches get a lot of money, and definitely can afford to sit out a year (and much more), but by doing so they lose a full year's salary, which is still a lot regardless of how much money they've made in the past. Keep in mind Garrett, unlike most coaches who are "let go", wasnt "fired", his contract ran out, which means he wasnt getting paid the remainder of the contract. Also, its definitely a better to stay active within the coaching community, than sit out. When the Giants signed him, there werent many openings left (Jerry Jones dragged the process out).

As far as Schuplinski, the QB situation in Miami is unclear. While they still pick high, they're not likely high enough to draft a top prospect (Burrow is most likely gone unless they pull a massive trade up, & Tua may still be a question mark with the injury). Not to mention he was an Asst. QB coach in Miami, & the Giants offered him a promotion to QB Coach, with no uncertainty at QB.

I'm not saying they don't like DJ, but coming to the conclusion that its "a pretty damn strong validation of DJ's potential" is probably over optimistic, IMO.
section  
ColHowPepper : 1/20/2020 1:09 pm : link
Quote:
FWIW, this is where I think Garrett can be a big influence. I'm sure DG talks to JJ, Graham and Garrett about FAs. With that much time, Garrett's opinion of FAs will be important. Dallas always seemed to do well in FA.
agree! Mentioned that above: we need different set of inputs into selection of OL in FA and draft. It has been abysmal since ~2010.

Like to be a fly on the wall in those discussions between JJ and Garrett, and DG's take.
...  
ColHowPepper : 1/20/2020 1:15 pm : link
Rudy, we agree (:

Glory Dayz: your points are fair, it's never 100% b&w, and there are always countervailing considerations. But given options, and the risks at taking NYG jobs (how long will the GM that signed him/them be in power; a roster significantly bereft of talent; an OL that blows; and a floundering franchise for many years now), you had to have had positive reasons for taking the job, aside from the iconic franchise name. I think Jones is a significant factor in those decisions.

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