Of a very limited team like Tennessee with their backup QB they traded a late round pick for and having one good weapon - their running game winning on the road in New England and then on the road in heavy favorite Baltimore with the MVP running QB and taking a first half lead at KC with last years MVP is that
Running the ball and stopping the run is dead?..
They ran all over NE, they ran all over Baltimore, they totally shut down Baltimore’s running, they took away all of KCs options for 3Qs and Mahomes made the plays with his legs
Winning in the NFL is not about running the ball and stopping the run. Once you've controlled for injuries, it's about:
1. Making chunk plays on offense (for most teams this is throwing the ball; for Baltimore it's also running the ball with the quarterback)
2. Limiting chunk plays on defense (Belichick has understood this for years, focusing on limiting big plays and using red zone defense to turn TDs into FGs)
3. Turnovers
If I had to set a goal for the Giants in 2020 it's to get Jones's YPA up above 7.5. Along with turnovers that well correlate most to wins, IMO.
Maybe I missed something, but the Titans just played in the AFC Championship game, so, yeah, that “mantra” still works. Sometimes you play a better team.
KC won the game by stopping the run & forcing Tannehill to beat them, while having a good balance of run & pass on offense.
KC didn’t shut the run down. They torched the Tennessee defense.
What do you mean KC didn’t shut the run down?? They held Derrick Henry to under 100 yards and only 3.6 ypc. Had they not stopped the run Henry would’ve done what he had been doing for weeks, which was running for 150-200 yards. And had he done that, would’ve been a different game.
Winning in the NFL is not about running the ball and stopping the run. Once you've controlled for injuries, it's about:
1. Making chunk plays on offense (for most teams this is throwing the ball; for Baltimore it's also running the ball with the quarterback)
2. Limiting chunk plays on defense (Belichick has understood this for years, focusing on limiting big plays and using red zone defense to turn TDs into FGs)
3. Turnovers
If I had to set a goal for the Giants in 2020 it's to get Jones's YPA up above 7.5. Along with turnovers that well correlate most to wins, IMO.
You're leaving out an extremely important aspect of winning: being good in the redzone (or as TC called it, the "green" zone) on both offense and defense.
Getting chunk plays is great, but if you can't convert redzone opportunities into TDs, you're not doing the most important thing in all of sports which is putting points on the board.
The same goes for playing defense. So many Belichick teams of the past have made it as far as they have without having the best players in the league on D-- by being great in the redzone. So often you see his teams like 30th in yards allowed but 15th in points allowed, or 15th in yards allowed, and 2nd in points allowed, etc.
KC won the game by stopping the run & forcing Tannehill to beat them, while having a good balance of run & pass on offense.
KC didn’t shut the run down. They torched the Tennessee defense.
They did what they do best, better than any other team, and thats throw the football. If my team has Mahomes at QB, Hill at WR and Kelce at TE, I really wouldnt expect them to run the ball more than they pass the ball. Tennessee on the other hand....
Different things for different teams. Do what you do best based on your personnel.
Tennessee’s power running game put them in great position in the 1st half to win that game
Tennessee’s D took away KCs biggest strength - it’s deep vertical game and severely limited Mahomes options for 3Qs
Unfortunately for Tennessee, Patrick Mahomes still managed to make some incredible plays with his feet running for key 1st downs on pivotal 3rd downs and then the huge game changing TD.
Tennessee is very limited wild card team and are not incredibly talented. They are extradonarily well coached and they have a good, not great defense. They have a great power running game. This very nearly got to them to the Super Bowl despite having to get to New England, Baltimore and Kansas City. Despite matching up against Brady, Jackson and Mahomes, despite matching up against Belichick, Harbaugh and Reid.
This is an argument in favor of the old school mantra. Not against. It was a remarkable run by Tennessee.
Run the ball, stop the run, pass the ball, defend the pass. They're Â
There are more things in Heaven and Earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy. There are multiple ways to win in the NFL. Offensive teams seem to hoist the trophy less often than teams that feature a strong defense combined with a running game historically.
Maybe I missed something, but the Titans just played in the AFC Championship game, so, yeah, that “mantra” still works. Sometimes you play a better team.
In comment 14786007 BigBlueDownTheShore said:
Quote:
In comment 14785998 RobCarpenter said:
Quote:
KC won the game by stopping the run & forcing Tannehill to beat them, while having a good balance of run & pass on offense.
KC didn’t shut the run down. They torched the Tennessee defense.
Yup and I think the OP missed the fact KC out rushed the Titans by double whilealso stopping the Titans running game.
Seems like the mantra is alive and well to me. Especially when you consider it's exactly what also got Tenn this far.
Winning in the NFL is not about running the ball and stopping the run. Once you've controlled for injuries, it's about:
1. Making chunk plays on offense (for most teams this is throwing the ball; for Baltimore it's also running the ball with the quarterback)
2. Limiting chunk plays on defense (Belichick has understood this for years, focusing on limiting big plays and using red zone defense to turn TDs into FGs)
3. Turnovers
If I had to set a goal for the Giants in 2020 it's to get Jones's YPA up above 7.5. Along with turnovers that well correlate most to wins, IMO.
Well, y'know, it's not an either-or. You can stop the run, run the ball, and do those things. The mistake comes when you run the ball instead of making chunk plays on offense. And when you stop the run but can't stop chunk plays on defense. (See 2019 Giants).
at a decent level knows the importance of both stopping the run and being able to run the ball. People like to shit in Gettleman but it is just becoming ridiculous. I'm not going to go into all the benefits of both. This doesn't mean a team will run the ball 100% of the time. Far from it. It doesn't mean there is only one way to win in the NFL. Far from it.
With a loaded defense that was ranked #1 and were 13-3 with home field advantage throughout and then went in and didn’t win a single playoff game then maybe I could see the point.
Titans were 21st in yds allowed and 12th in pts allowed. They were 12th in rush yds allowed.
Winning in the NFL is not about running the ball and stopping the run. Once you've controlled for injuries, it's about:
1. Making chunk plays on offense (for most teams this is throwing the ball; for Baltimore it's also running the ball with the quarterback)
2. Limiting chunk plays on defense (Belichick has understood this for years, focusing on limiting big plays and using red zone defense to turn TDs into FGs)
3. Turnovers
If I had to set a goal for the Giants in 2020 it's to get Jones's YPA up above 7.5. Along with turnovers that well correlate most to wins, IMO.
Well, y'know, it's not an either-or. You can stop the run, run the ball, and do those things. The mistake comes when you run the ball instead of making chunk plays on offense. And when you stop the run but can't stop chunk plays on defense. (See 2019 Giants).
Thankfully we have a coach who recognizes that different games call for different measures. If all you do is run the ball you find yourself unable to play from behind or take advantage of a team with a banged up secondary or facing a loaded box. If all you do is throw the ball, you find can struggle running out the clock/closing out games or against an opponent with a fierce pass rush.
Our team is going to run the ball 60 times if that’s what it takes, the next week we may not run it at all. You damn well better get used to it —our “identity” is whatever is called for, game to game, quarter to quarter.
And Tennessee lost because Tannehill isn’t a good QB Â
he’s perfect for that team but he isn’t good enough to ever win a shootout.
But they made the playoffs and beat 2 top defensive and the best offense in the NFL because they run and atop the run. San Francisco runs and stops the run. Baltimore runs and stops the run. Clearly it works, but that doesn’t mean it’s the only reason why, thought that was obvious but apparently you have to go full end of spectrum around here.
You want to stop the run, stop the pass, run the ball and pass the ball.
LOL, bravo. Can we agree that while there’s no one formula, all the teams that have used top 10 picks on RBs didn’t make the playoffs. So whatever the winning formula, it still comes down to positional value in the draft and cap management.
Was Mahomes off of 53 yards scrambling. Williams has all of 45 yards legit rushing yards.
Last week this place was flaming scrambling QBs and saying they could never win and Tennessee was poised to go to the Super Bowl because Derrick Henry runs the football and Tennessee played great defense.
Henry would have hit 100 yds or more if they kept feeding him. They didn’t stop the run. Tennessee had to play catch-up in the points department and had to abandon the run because they wouldn’t have had time to catch the Chiefs.
This game was the very opposite of traditional football. This was modern offense whooping old school football.
Winning in the NFL is not about running the ball and stopping the run. Once you've controlled for injuries, it's about:
1. Making chunk plays on offense (for most teams this is throwing the ball; for Baltimore it's also running the ball with the quarterback)
2. Limiting chunk plays on defense (Belichick has understood this for years, focusing on limiting big plays and using red zone defense to turn TDs into FGs)
3. Turnovers
If I had to set a goal for the Giants in 2020 it's to get Jones's YPA up above 7.5. Along with turnovers that well correlate most to wins, IMO.
Well, y'know, it's not an either-or. You can stop the run, run the ball, and do those things. The mistake comes when you run the ball instead of making chunk plays on offense. And when you stop the run but can't stop chunk plays on defense. (See 2019 Giants).
Shhhhh, let him keep going...
You really are an ass.
This place is overrun with people that will just default to whatever the Giants do without any interest in thinking critically. Doesn't matter how often they're shown to be wrong.
right back at you man. You never fail to repeat your same arguments over and over, completely ignoring any and all counterpoints including ones that partially agree with you.
You are posting like everyone on BBI thinks running and stopping the run is the only way to win. I know you don’t believe that’s true but somehow that’s how you post, it’s really strange.
Even stranger is your boy Lamar Jackson gets chunk plays because they run well, but for some reason that’s never talked about.
I just don’t get it, what are you trying to prove?
Because they run and stop the run.. especially on defense you also have to stop the pass.. you have to pressure the QB.. we suck at the latter 2.. by miles.. you also have limits on number of okayed you can put on the field.. so hoarding 4 DTs who are good against the run and suck or at best are sub optimal at pressuring QB really limits what the defense can do..
Because they run and stop the run.. especially on defense you also have to stop the pass.. you have to pressure the QB.. we suck at the latter 2.. by miles.. you also have limits on number of okayed you can put on the field.. so hoarding 4 DTs who are good against the run and suck or at best are sub optimal at pressuring QB really limits what the defense can do..
Couple of mistakes there.. there is supposed to be only in the title..
Okayed = players..
The 49ers have scored 27 points in the first half Â
Was Mahomes off of 53 yards scrambling. Williams has all of 45 yards legit rushing yards.
Last week this place was flaming scrambling QBs and saying they could never win and Tennessee was poised to go to the Super Bowl because Derrick Henry runs the football and Tennessee played great defense.
Henry would have hit 100 yds or more if they kept feeding him. They didn’t stop the run. Tennessee had to play catch-up in the points department and had to abandon the run because they wouldn’t have had time to catch the Chiefs.
This game was the very opposite of traditional football. This was modern offense whooping old school football.
You sing this same song every week or so ... strongly suggest you stick to
madden and FF ... it’s what you know best.
Was Mahomes off of 53 yards scrambling. Williams has all of 45 yards legit rushing yards.
Last week this place was flaming scrambling QBs and saying they could never win and Tennessee was poised to go to the Super Bowl because Derrick Henry runs the football and Tennessee played great defense.
Henry would have hit 100 yds or more if they kept feeding him. They didn’t stop the run. Tennessee had to play catch-up in the points department and had to abandon the run because they wouldn’t have had time to catch the Chiefs.
This game was the very opposite of traditional football. This was modern offense whooping old school football.
You sing this same song every week or so ... strongly suggest you stick to
madden and FF ... it’s what you know best.
I also think every team wants a good QB.
A team can only carry a bad QB so far usually (unless you are the 2000 Baltimore Ravens).
I also think every team wants a good QB.
A team can only carry a bad QB so far usually (unless you are the 2000 Baltimore Ravens).
Back tracking a little bit
Sy’56 has Spoken - ( New Window )
That’s an exaggeration. But I do believe the way they are building will lead to long term success.
Running the ball and stopping the run is dead?..
They ran all over NE, they ran all over Baltimore, they totally shut down Baltimore’s running, they took away all of KCs options for 3Qs and Mahomes made the plays with his legs
It’s the only reason they get this far.
“Run the ball”
“Stop the run”
Anyone still want to make the foolish claim that the approach is “outdated”?
Quote:
“Run the ball”
“Stop the run”
Anyone still want to make the foolish claim that the approach is “outdated”?
No offense but you sound like a child. What is the purpose of this thread other than being a dick?
KC didn’t shut the run down. They torched the Tennessee defense.
1. Making chunk plays on offense (for most teams this is throwing the ball; for Baltimore it's also running the ball with the quarterback)
2. Limiting chunk plays on defense (Belichick has understood this for years, focusing on limiting big plays and using red zone defense to turn TDs into FGs)
3. Turnovers
If I had to set a goal for the Giants in 2020 it's to get Jones's YPA up above 7.5. Along with turnovers that well correlate most to wins, IMO.
In comment 14786007 BigBlueDownTheShore said:
Quote:
KC won the game by stopping the run & forcing Tannehill to beat them, while having a good balance of run & pass on offense.
KC didn’t shut the run down. They torched the Tennessee defense.
Quote:
KC won the game by stopping the run & forcing Tannehill to beat them, while having a good balance of run & pass on offense.
KC didn’t shut the run down. They torched the Tennessee defense.
They held Henry to 69 yards and 3.6 YPC. You can make the argument that the game has changed while not being disingenuous.
So nice not to see BB, Brady and the Pats.
Congrats KC!
Quote:
KC won the game by stopping the run & forcing Tannehill to beat them, while having a good balance of run & pass on offense.
KC didn’t shut the run down. They torched the Tennessee defense.
What do you mean KC didn’t shut the run down?? They held Derrick Henry to under 100 yards and only 3.6 ypc. Had they not stopped the run Henry would’ve done what he had been doing for weeks, which was running for 150-200 yards. And had he done that, would’ve been a different game.
1. Making chunk plays on offense (for most teams this is throwing the ball; for Baltimore it's also running the ball with the quarterback)
2. Limiting chunk plays on defense (Belichick has understood this for years, focusing on limiting big plays and using red zone defense to turn TDs into FGs)
3. Turnovers
If I had to set a goal for the Giants in 2020 it's to get Jones's YPA up above 7.5. Along with turnovers that well correlate most to wins, IMO.
You're leaving out an extremely important aspect of winning: being good in the redzone (or as TC called it, the "green" zone) on both offense and defense.
Getting chunk plays is great, but if you can't convert redzone opportunities into TDs, you're not doing the most important thing in all of sports which is putting points on the board.
The same goes for playing defense. So many Belichick teams of the past have made it as far as they have without having the best players in the league on D-- by being great in the redzone. So often you see his teams like 30th in yards allowed but 15th in points allowed, or 15th in yards allowed, and 2nd in points allowed, etc.
Quote:
KC won the game by stopping the run & forcing Tannehill to beat them, while having a good balance of run & pass on offense.
KC didn’t shut the run down. They torched the Tennessee defense.
They did what they do best, better than any other team, and thats throw the football. If my team has Mahomes at QB, Hill at WR and Kelce at TE, I really wouldnt expect them to run the ball more than they pass the ball. Tennessee on the other hand....
Different things for different teams. Do what you do best based on your personnel.
Tennessee’s D took away KCs biggest strength - it’s deep vertical game and severely limited Mahomes options for 3Qs
Unfortunately for Tennessee, Patrick Mahomes still managed to make some incredible plays with his feet running for key 1st downs on pivotal 3rd downs and then the huge game changing TD.
Tennessee is very limited wild card team and are not incredibly talented. They are extradonarily well coached and they have a good, not great defense. They have a great power running game. This very nearly got to them to the Super Bowl despite having to get to New England, Baltimore and Kansas City. Despite matching up against Brady, Jackson and Mahomes, despite matching up against Belichick, Harbaugh and Reid.
This is an argument in favor of the old school mantra. Not against. It was a remarkable run by Tennessee.
In comment 14786007 BigBlueDownTheShore said:
Quote:
In comment 14785998 RobCarpenter said:
Quote:
KC won the game by stopping the run & forcing Tannehill to beat them, while having a good balance of run & pass on offense.
KC didn’t shut the run down. They torched the Tennessee defense.
Yup and I think the OP missed the fact KC out rushed the Titans by double whilealso stopping the Titans running game.
Seems like the mantra is alive and well to me. Especially when you consider it's exactly what also got Tenn this far.
1. Making chunk plays on offense (for most teams this is throwing the ball; for Baltimore it's also running the ball with the quarterback)
2. Limiting chunk plays on defense (Belichick has understood this for years, focusing on limiting big plays and using red zone defense to turn TDs into FGs)
3. Turnovers
If I had to set a goal for the Giants in 2020 it's to get Jones's YPA up above 7.5. Along with turnovers that well correlate most to wins, IMO.
It might happen one day Shore...
Titans were 21st in yds allowed and 12th in pts allowed. They were 12th in rush yds allowed.
Quote:
Winning in the NFL is not about running the ball and stopping the run. Once you've controlled for injuries, it's about:
1. Making chunk plays on offense (for most teams this is throwing the ball; for Baltimore it's also running the ball with the quarterback)
2. Limiting chunk plays on defense (Belichick has understood this for years, focusing on limiting big plays and using red zone defense to turn TDs into FGs)
3. Turnovers
If I had to set a goal for the Giants in 2020 it's to get Jones's YPA up above 7.5. Along with turnovers that well correlate most to wins, IMO.
Well, y'know, it's not an either-or. You can stop the run, run the ball, and do those things. The mistake comes when you run the ball instead of making chunk plays on offense. And when you stop the run but can't stop chunk plays on defense. (See 2019 Giants).
Shhhhh, let him keep going...
Our team is going to run the ball 60 times if that’s what it takes, the next week we may not run it at all. You damn well better get used to it —our “identity” is whatever is called for, game to game, quarter to quarter.
But they made the playoffs and beat 2 top defensive and the best offense in the NFL because they run and atop the run. San Francisco runs and stops the run. Baltimore runs and stops the run. Clearly it works, but that doesn’t mean it’s the only reason why, thought that was obvious but apparently you have to go full end of spectrum around here.
LOL, bravo. Can we agree that while there’s no one formula, all the teams that have used top 10 picks on RBs didn’t make the playoffs. So whatever the winning formula, it still comes down to positional value in the draft and cap management.
Last week this place was flaming scrambling QBs and saying they could never win and Tennessee was poised to go to the Super Bowl because Derrick Henry runs the football and Tennessee played great defense.
Henry would have hit 100 yds or more if they kept feeding him. They didn’t stop the run. Tennessee had to play catch-up in the points department and had to abandon the run because they wouldn’t have had time to catch the Chiefs.
This game was the very opposite of traditional football. This was modern offense whooping old school football.
Quote:
In comment 14786009 Go Terps said:
Quote:
Winning in the NFL is not about running the ball and stopping the run. Once you've controlled for injuries, it's about:
1. Making chunk plays on offense (for most teams this is throwing the ball; for Baltimore it's also running the ball with the quarterback)
2. Limiting chunk plays on defense (Belichick has understood this for years, focusing on limiting big plays and using red zone defense to turn TDs into FGs)
3. Turnovers
If I had to set a goal for the Giants in 2020 it's to get Jones's YPA up above 7.5. Along with turnovers that well correlate most to wins, IMO.
Well, y'know, it's not an either-or. You can stop the run, run the ball, and do those things. The mistake comes when you run the ball instead of making chunk plays on offense. And when you stop the run but can't stop chunk plays on defense. (See 2019 Giants).
Shhhhh, let him keep going...
You really are an ass.
This place is overrun with people that will just default to whatever the Giants do without any interest in thinking critically. Doesn't matter how often they're shown to be wrong.
Enjoy your shitty board.
It might happen one day Shore...
I have not at all been saying this for 10+ years.
Nope I have not mister Dupe
You are posting like everyone on BBI thinks running and stopping the run is the only way to win. I know you don’t believe that’s true but somehow that’s how you post, it’s really strange.
Even stranger is your boy Lamar Jackson gets chunk plays because they run well, but for some reason that’s never talked about.
I just don’t get it, what are you trying to prove?
Couple of mistakes there.. there is supposed to be only in the title..
Okayed = players..
I think the 49ers and the Titans are old school - my favorite brand of football
Last week this place was flaming scrambling QBs and saying they could never win and Tennessee was poised to go to the Super Bowl because Derrick Henry runs the football and Tennessee played great defense.
Henry would have hit 100 yds or more if they kept feeding him. They didn’t stop the run. Tennessee had to play catch-up in the points department and had to abandon the run because they wouldn’t have had time to catch the Chiefs.
This game was the very opposite of traditional football. This was modern offense whooping old school football.
You sing this same song every week or so ... strongly suggest you stick to
madden and FF ... it’s what you know best.
Yes I am. Like I said for the start of this thread there is more than one way to get it done in the NFL.
Quote:
Was Mahomes off of 53 yards scrambling. Williams has all of 45 yards legit rushing yards.
Last week this place was flaming scrambling QBs and saying they could never win and Tennessee was poised to go to the Super Bowl because Derrick Henry runs the football and Tennessee played great defense.
Henry would have hit 100 yds or more if they kept feeding him. They didn’t stop the run. Tennessee had to play catch-up in the points department and had to abandon the run because they wouldn’t have had time to catch the Chiefs.
This game was the very opposite of traditional football. This was modern offense whooping old school football.
You sing this same song every week or so ... strongly suggest you stick to
madden and FF ... it’s what you know best.
Ok Boomer.
Quote:
KC won the game by stopping the run & forcing Tannehill to beat them, while having a good balance of run & pass on offense.
KC didn’t shut the run down. They torched the Tennessee defense.
KC didn’t shut down the run? Henry had what, 70 yards? Did you even watch the game?