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Is the old school run the ball and stop the run mantra dead?

BigBlueDownTheShore : 1/19/2020 6:11 pm
This Chief/Titans game was old school vs new school. Seems like their is more than one way to skin the cat.
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Huh? No.  
robbieballs2003 : 1/19/2020 6:12 pm : link
Every game is different. One game doesn't make a trend. KC is fuckin loaded.
...  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 1/19/2020 6:14 pm : link
I think every team wants to run the ball and stop the run.

I also think every team wants a good QB.

A team can only carry a bad QB so far usually (unless you are the 2000 Baltimore Ravens).
RE: ...  
BigBlueDownTheShore : 1/19/2020 6:21 pm : link
In comment 14785979 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
I think every team wants to run the ball and stop the run.

I also think every team wants a good QB.

A team can only carry a bad QB so far usually (unless you are the 2000 Baltimore Ravens).


Back tracking a little bit


Sy’56 has Spoken - ( New Window )
Titans are still building  
rasbutant : 1/19/2020 6:23 pm : link
The next dynasty.

That’s an exaggeration. But I do believe the way they are building will lead to long term success.
BigBlueDownTheShore  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 1/19/2020 6:23 pm : link
How is what I said backtracking?
????  
RobCarpenter : 1/19/2020 6:23 pm : link
KC won the game by stopping the run & forcing Tannehill to beat them, while having a good balance of run & pass on offense.
Your take away  
twostepgiants : 1/19/2020 6:24 pm : link
Of a very limited team like Tennessee with their backup QB they traded a late round pick for and having one good weapon - their running game winning on the road in New England and then on the road in heavy favorite Baltimore with the MVP running QB and taking a first half lead at KC with last years MVP is that

Running the ball and stopping the run is dead?..

They ran all over NE, they ran all over Baltimore, they totally shut down Baltimore’s running, they took away all of KCs options for 3Qs and Mahomes made the plays with his legs

It’s the only reason they get this far.
KC has 3 fast WR and a game changing TE  
Rjanyg : 1/19/2020 6:24 pm : link
Plus Mahomes
....  
BigBlueDownTheShore : 1/19/2020 6:25 pm : link
Quote:

“Run the ball”
“Stop the run”

Anyone still want to make the foolish claim that the approach is “outdated”?
7 of the top 10 rushing offenses in the NFL made the playoffs  
JCin332 : 1/19/2020 6:26 pm : link
this year...so there's that...

RE: ....  
robbieballs2003 : 1/19/2020 6:26 pm : link
In comment 14786002 BigBlueDownTheShore said:
Quote:


Quote:



“Run the ball”
“Stop the run”

Anyone still want to make the foolish claim that the approach is “outdated”?



No offense but you sound like a child. What is the purpose of this thread other than being a dick?
RE: ????  
BigBlueDownTheShore : 1/19/2020 6:27 pm : link
In comment 14785998 RobCarpenter said:
Quote:
KC won the game by stopping the run & forcing Tannehill to beat them, while having a good balance of run & pass on offense.


KC didn’t shut the run down. They torched the Tennessee defense.
I posted this in the game thread  
Go Terps : 1/19/2020 6:30 pm : link
Winning in the NFL is not about running the ball and stopping the run. Once you've controlled for injuries, it's about:

1. Making chunk plays on offense (for most teams this is throwing the ball; for Baltimore it's also running the ball with the quarterback)
2. Limiting chunk plays on defense (Belichick has understood this for years, focusing on limiting big plays and using red zone defense to turn TDs into FGs)
3. Turnovers

If I had to set a goal for the Giants in 2020 it's to get Jones's YPA up above 7.5. Along with turnovers that well correlate most to wins, IMO.
RE: RE: ????  
LarmerTJR : 1/19/2020 6:31 pm : link
Maybe I missed something, but the Titans just played in the AFC Championship game, so, yeah, that “mantra” still works. Sometimes you play a better team.



In comment 14786007 BigBlueDownTheShore said:
Quote:
In comment 14785998 RobCarpenter said:


Quote:


KC won the game by stopping the run & forcing Tannehill to beat them, while having a good balance of run & pass on offense.



KC didn’t shut the run down. They torched the Tennessee defense.
RE: RE: ????  
j_rud : 1/19/2020 6:32 pm : link
In comment 14786007 BigBlueDownTheShore said:
Quote:
In comment 14785998 RobCarpenter said:


Quote:


KC won the game by stopping the run & forcing Tannehill to beat them, while having a good balance of run & pass on offense.



KC didn’t shut the run down. They torched the Tennessee defense.


They held Henry to 69 yards and 3.6 YPC. You can make the argument that the game has changed while not being disingenuous.
Mahomes  
Jimmy Googs : 1/19/2020 6:34 pm : link
Kelce and Hill are simply excellent. They beat everything designed to stop what they do. Add in good coaching and you have Super Bowl team.

So nice not to see BB, Brady and the Pats.

Congrats KC!
Isn't it obvious?  
AdamBrag : 1/19/2020 6:36 pm : link
You want to stop the run, stop the pass, run the ball and pass the ball.
RE: RE: ????  
nyjuggernaut2 : 1/19/2020 6:37 pm : link
In comment 14786007 BigBlueDownTheShore said:
Quote:
In comment 14785998 RobCarpenter said:


Quote:


KC won the game by stopping the run & forcing Tannehill to beat them, while having a good balance of run & pass on offense.



KC didn’t shut the run down. They torched the Tennessee defense.


What do you mean KC didn’t shut the run down?? They held Derrick Henry to under 100 yards and only 3.6 ypc. Had they not stopped the run Henry would’ve done what he had been doing for weeks, which was running for 150-200 yards. And had he done that, would’ve been a different game.
Old school is not dead but is on life support  
Vanzetti : 1/19/2020 6:37 pm : link
it appeals to a Giants fans because it is basically “Giants Football.” But 80% of the time, it is the team with a diversified attack that wins.
Football is still football  
blueblood : 1/19/2020 6:40 pm : link
period
RE: I posted this in the game thread  
Leg of Theismann : 1/19/2020 6:40 pm : link
In comment 14786009 Go Terps said:
Quote:
Winning in the NFL is not about running the ball and stopping the run. Once you've controlled for injuries, it's about:

1. Making chunk plays on offense (for most teams this is throwing the ball; for Baltimore it's also running the ball with the quarterback)
2. Limiting chunk plays on defense (Belichick has understood this for years, focusing on limiting big plays and using red zone defense to turn TDs into FGs)
3. Turnovers

If I had to set a goal for the Giants in 2020 it's to get Jones's YPA up above 7.5. Along with turnovers that well correlate most to wins, IMO.


You're leaving out an extremely important aspect of winning: being good in the redzone (or as TC called it, the "green" zone) on both offense and defense.

Getting chunk plays is great, but if you can't convert redzone opportunities into TDs, you're not doing the most important thing in all of sports which is putting points on the board.

The same goes for playing defense. So many Belichick teams of the past have made it as far as they have without having the best players in the league on D-- by being great in the redzone. So often you see his teams like 30th in yards allowed but 15th in points allowed, or 15th in yards allowed, and 2nd in points allowed, etc.
RE: RE: ????  
John In CO : 1/19/2020 6:42 pm : link
In comment 14786007 BigBlueDownTheShore said:
Quote:
In comment 14785998 RobCarpenter said:


Quote:


KC won the game by stopping the run & forcing Tannehill to beat them, while having a good balance of run & pass on offense.



KC didn’t shut the run down. They torched the Tennessee defense.


They did what they do best, better than any other team, and thats throw the football. If my team has Mahomes at QB, Hill at WR and Kelce at TE, I really wouldnt expect them to run the ball more than they pass the ball. Tennessee on the other hand....

Different things for different teams. Do what you do best based on your personnel.
The game that I saw  
twostepgiants : 1/19/2020 6:47 pm : link
Tennessee’s power running game put them in great position in the 1st half to win that game

Tennessee’s D took away KCs biggest strength - it’s deep vertical game and severely limited Mahomes options for 3Qs

Unfortunately for Tennessee, Patrick Mahomes still managed to make some incredible plays with his feet running for key 1st downs on pivotal 3rd downs and then the huge game changing TD.

Tennessee is very limited wild card team and are not incredibly talented. They are extradonarily well coached and they have a good, not great defense. They have a great power running game. This very nearly got to them to the Super Bowl despite having to get to New England, Baltimore and Kansas City. Despite matching up against Brady, Jackson and Mahomes, despite matching up against Belichick, Harbaugh and Reid.

This is an argument in favor of the old school mantra. Not against. It was a remarkable run by Tennessee.
Run the ball, stop the run, pass the ball, defend the pass. They're  
Ira : 1/19/2020 6:52 pm : link
all important.
No  
Torrag : 1/19/2020 6:55 pm : link
There are more things in Heaven and Earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy. There are multiple ways to win in the NFL. Offensive teams seem to hoist the trophy less often than teams that feature a strong defense combined with a running game historically.
RE: RE: RE: ????  
Eman11 : 1/19/2020 6:57 pm : link
In comment 14786011 LarmerTJR said:
Quote:
Maybe I missed something, but the Titans just played in the AFC Championship game, so, yeah, that “mantra” still works. Sometimes you play a better team.



In comment 14786007 BigBlueDownTheShore said:


Quote:


In comment 14785998 RobCarpenter said:


Quote:


KC won the game by stopping the run & forcing Tannehill to beat them, while having a good balance of run & pass on offense.



KC didn’t shut the run down. They torched the Tennessee defense.



Yup and I think the OP missed the fact KC out rushed the Titans by double whilealso stopping the Titans running game.

Seems like the mantra is alive and well to me. Especially when you consider it's exactly what also got Tenn this far.
RE: I posted this in the game thread  
81_Great_Dane : 1/19/2020 7:06 pm : link
In comment 14786009 Go Terps said:
Quote:
Winning in the NFL is not about running the ball and stopping the run. Once you've controlled for injuries, it's about:

1. Making chunk plays on offense (for most teams this is throwing the ball; for Baltimore it's also running the ball with the quarterback)
2. Limiting chunk plays on defense (Belichick has understood this for years, focusing on limiting big plays and using red zone defense to turn TDs into FGs)
3. Turnovers

If I had to set a goal for the Giants in 2020 it's to get Jones's YPA up above 7.5. Along with turnovers that well correlate most to wins, IMO.
Well, y'know, it's not an either-or. You can stop the run, run the ball, and do those things. The mistake comes when you run the ball instead of making chunk plays on offense. And when you stop the run but can't stop chunk plays on defense. (See 2019 Giants).
For anybody that actually played this sport  
robbieballs2003 : 1/19/2020 7:12 pm : link
at a decent level knows the importance of both stopping the run and being able to run the ball. People like to shit in Gettleman but it is just becoming ridiculous. I'm not going to go into all the benefits of both. This doesn't mean a team will run the ball 100% of the time. Far from it. It doesn't mean there is only one way to win in the NFL. Far from it.
Shore has been beating this drum  
lono801 : 1/19/2020 7:17 pm : link
since I met him 10+ years ago...

It might happen one day Shore...
If Tennessee was dominant all year  
twostepgiants : 1/19/2020 7:19 pm : link
With a loaded defense that was ranked #1 and were 13-3 with home field advantage throughout and then went in and didn’t win a single playoff game then maybe I could see the point.

Titans were 21st in yds allowed and 12th in pts allowed. They were 12th in rush yds allowed.
Why do people think it’s the end all be all?  
UConn4523 : 1/19/2020 7:19 pm : link
these threads are a real chore.
RE: RE: I posted this in the game thread  
UConn4523 : 1/19/2020 7:19 pm : link
In comment 14786062 81_Great_Dane said:
Quote:
In comment 14786009 Go Terps said:


Quote:


Winning in the NFL is not about running the ball and stopping the run. Once you've controlled for injuries, it's about:

1. Making chunk plays on offense (for most teams this is throwing the ball; for Baltimore it's also running the ball with the quarterback)
2. Limiting chunk plays on defense (Belichick has understood this for years, focusing on limiting big plays and using red zone defense to turn TDs into FGs)
3. Turnovers

If I had to set a goal for the Giants in 2020 it's to get Jones's YPA up above 7.5. Along with turnovers that well correlate most to wins, IMO.

Well, y'know, it's not an either-or. You can stop the run, run the ball, and do those things. The mistake comes when you run the ball instead of making chunk plays on offense. And when you stop the run but can't stop chunk plays on defense. (See 2019 Giants).


Shhhhh, let him keep going...
Again  
UberAlias : 1/19/2020 7:20 pm : link
Thankfully we have a coach who recognizes that different games call for different measures. If all you do is run the ball you find yourself unable to play from behind or take advantage of a team with a banged up secondary or facing a loaded box. If all you do is throw the ball, you find can struggle running out the clock/closing out games or against an opponent with a fierce pass rush.

Our team is going to run the ball 60 times if that’s what it takes, the next week we may not run it at all. You damn well better get used to it —our “identity” is whatever is called for, game to game, quarter to quarter.
And Tennessee lost because Tannehill isn’t a good QB  
UConn4523 : 1/19/2020 7:24 pm : link
he’s perfect for that team but he isn’t good enough to ever win a shootout.

But they made the playoffs and beat 2 top defensive and the best offense in the NFL because they run and atop the run. San Francisco runs and stops the run. Baltimore runs and stops the run. Clearly it works, but that doesn’t mean it’s the only reason why, thought that was obvious but apparently you have to go full end of spectrum around here.
Facts  
aGiantGuy : 1/19/2020 7:27 pm : link
Made the OP run from his own thread, well done BBI
RE: Isn't it obvious?  
V.I.G. : 1/19/2020 7:38 pm : link
In comment 14786017 AdamBrag said:
Quote:
You want to stop the run, stop the pass, run the ball and pass the ball.

LOL, bravo. Can we agree that while there’s no one formula, all the teams that have used top 10 picks on RBs didn’t make the playoffs. So whatever the winning formula, it still comes down to positional value in the draft and cap management.
The leading rusher for the Chiefs  
BigBlueDownTheShore : 1/19/2020 7:39 pm : link
Was Mahomes off of 53 yards scrambling. Williams has all of 45 yards legit rushing yards.

Last week this place was flaming scrambling QBs and saying they could never win and Tennessee was poised to go to the Super Bowl because Derrick Henry runs the football and Tennessee played great defense.

Henry would have hit 100 yds or more if they kept feeding him. They didn’t stop the run. Tennessee had to play catch-up in the points department and had to abandon the run because they wouldn’t have had time to catch the Chiefs.

This game was the very opposite of traditional football. This was modern offense whooping old school football.



RE: RE: RE: I posted this in the game thread  
Go Terps : 1/19/2020 7:40 pm : link
In comment 14786088 UConn4523 said:
Quote:
In comment 14786062 81_Great_Dane said:


Quote:


In comment 14786009 Go Terps said:


Quote:


Winning in the NFL is not about running the ball and stopping the run. Once you've controlled for injuries, it's about:

1. Making chunk plays on offense (for most teams this is throwing the ball; for Baltimore it's also running the ball with the quarterback)
2. Limiting chunk plays on defense (Belichick has understood this for years, focusing on limiting big plays and using red zone defense to turn TDs into FGs)
3. Turnovers

If I had to set a goal for the Giants in 2020 it's to get Jones's YPA up above 7.5. Along with turnovers that well correlate most to wins, IMO.

Well, y'know, it's not an either-or. You can stop the run, run the ball, and do those things. The mistake comes when you run the ball instead of making chunk plays on offense. And when you stop the run but can't stop chunk plays on defense. (See 2019 Giants).



Shhhhh, let him keep going...


You really are an ass.

This place is overrun with people that will just default to whatever the Giants do without any interest in thinking critically. Doesn't matter how often they're shown to be wrong.

Enjoy your shitty board.
RE: Shore has been beating this drum  
BigBlueDownTheShore : 1/19/2020 7:40 pm : link
In comment 14786075 lono801 said:
Quote:
since I met him 10+ years ago...

It might happen one day Shore...


I have not at all been saying this for 10+ years.
RE: Facts  
BigBlueDownTheShore : 1/19/2020 7:45 pm : link
In comment 14786107 aGiantGuy said:
Quote:
Made the OP run from his own thread, well done BBI


Nope I have not mister Dupe
Sure looks like the 49ers  
section125 : 1/19/2020 7:47 pm : link
are tearing it up in the run game while stopping the run.
Go Terps  
UConn4523 : 1/19/2020 7:49 pm : link
right back at you man. You never fail to repeat your same arguments over and over, completely ignoring any and all counterpoints including ones that partially agree with you.

You are posting like everyone on BBI thinks running and stopping the run is the only way to win. I know you don’t believe that’s true but somehow that’s how you post, it’s really strange.

Even stranger is your boy Lamar Jackson gets chunk plays because they run well, but for some reason that’s never talked about.

I just don’t get it, what are you trying to prove?
Nobody wins game  
chuckydee9 : 1/19/2020 7:50 pm : link
Because they run and stop the run.. especially on defense you also have to stop the pass.. you have to pressure the QB.. we suck at the latter 2.. by miles.. you also have limits on number of okayed you can put on the field.. so hoarding 4 DTs who are good against the run and suck or at best are sub optimal at pressuring QB really limits what the defense can do..
RE: Nobody wins game  
chuckydee9 : 1/19/2020 7:52 pm : link
In comment 14786169 chuckydee9 said:
Quote:
Because they run and stop the run.. especially on defense you also have to stop the pass.. you have to pressure the QB.. we suck at the latter 2.. by miles.. you also have limits on number of okayed you can put on the field.. so hoarding 4 DTs who are good against the run and suck or at best are sub optimal at pressuring QB really limits what the defense can do..


Couple of mistakes there.. there is supposed to be only in the title..

Okayed = players..
The 49ers have scored 27 points in the first half  
markky : 1/19/2020 8:03 pm : link
while only throwing 6 passes. Running the ball and stopping the run is still key.

I think the 49ers and the Titans are old school - my favorite brand of football
Is the OP watching the 9ers?  
DonQuixote : 1/19/2020 8:04 pm : link
They seem to be doing OK with their run game...
RE: The leading rusher for the Chiefs  
Spider56 : 1/19/2020 8:06 pm : link
In comment 14786141 BigBlueDownTheShore said:
Quote:
Was Mahomes off of 53 yards scrambling. Williams has all of 45 yards legit rushing yards.

Last week this place was flaming scrambling QBs and saying they could never win and Tennessee was poised to go to the Super Bowl because Derrick Henry runs the football and Tennessee played great defense.

Henry would have hit 100 yds or more if they kept feeding him. They didn’t stop the run. Tennessee had to play catch-up in the points department and had to abandon the run because they wouldn’t have had time to catch the Chiefs.

This game was the very opposite of traditional football. This was modern offense whooping old school football.


You sing this same song every week or so ... strongly suggest you stick to
madden and FF ... it’s what you know best.
RE: Is the OP watching the 9ers?  
BigBlueDownTheShore : 1/19/2020 8:07 pm : link
In comment 14786210 DonQuixote said:
Quote:
They seem to be doing OK with their run game...


Yes I am. Like I said for the start of this thread there is more than one way to get it done in the NFL.
RE: RE: The leading rusher for the Chiefs  
BigBlueDownTheShore : 1/19/2020 8:08 pm : link
In comment 14786214 Spider56 said:
Quote:
In comment 14786141 BigBlueDownTheShore said:


Quote:


Was Mahomes off of 53 yards scrambling. Williams has all of 45 yards legit rushing yards.

Last week this place was flaming scrambling QBs and saying they could never win and Tennessee was poised to go to the Super Bowl because Derrick Henry runs the football and Tennessee played great defense.

Henry would have hit 100 yds or more if they kept feeding him. They didn’t stop the run. Tennessee had to play catch-up in the points department and had to abandon the run because they wouldn’t have had time to catch the Chiefs.

This game was the very opposite of traditional football. This was modern offense whooping old school football.




You sing this same song every week or so ... strongly suggest you stick to
madden and FF ... it’s what you know best.


Ok Boomer.
RE: RE: ????  
WillVAB : 1/19/2020 8:08 pm : link
In comment 14786007 BigBlueDownTheShore said:
Quote:
In comment 14785998 RobCarpenter said:


Quote:


KC won the game by stopping the run & forcing Tannehill to beat them, while having a good balance of run & pass on offense.



KC didn’t shut the run down. They torched the Tennessee defense.


KC didn’t shut down the run? Henry had what, 70 yards? Did you even watch the game?
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