Ralph Vacchiano
@RVacchianoSNY
·
1h
Updated through 10 playoff games:
Teams are averaging 130.7 rushing yards per game and 236.8 passing yards per game.
Winning teams are averaging 154.5 rushing, 211.4 passing.
Losing teams are averaging 106.8 rushing, 262.2 passing.
You do realize how skewed those numbers are by San Fran and Tennessee? Where in three of those 10 games their QBs combined passing attempts totaled 39. Those numbers reflect football in the 1970s.
I love it, but I think those results are more outliers than trends.
He’s been here forever, used to write game summaries for Eric (pretty good ones too), but he goes off the rails sometimes. Old timers here, like myself and BW know you have to totally ignore Joey when he gets like that. He comes around pretty quick. He did that at camp in Albany once where it was harder to ignore him. He’s an OK guy in the final analysis. Terps grates on people’s nerves- just the kind of guy to set Joey off.
I’ve been around for a long time and it always sticks out and I would think it’s a liability. Writing for the site shouldn’t give him a life time pass for extremely poor behavior that I’m sure in the right hands could shut this whole place down.
Now it sounds like football? Because for the past two years it has been considered archaic and out of touch.
This is what happens when you take throwaway quips and soundbites from the GM and run with them, creating entire conspiracy theories around them, and now that the entire playoffs have dictated that running the ball, stopping the run, and rushing the passer STILL wins in this league well now it's just oversimplification....
"Sounds a lot like football, duh..." lol.
First, the entire playoffs aren't over. But that doesn't matter -- if the Chiefs fucking blow the doors off the 9ers with 500 yards passing -- it's still one game and a small sample size.
The bigger point is why does Gettleman make three points 1) run 2) stop the run 3) rush the passer.
Why doesn't he include 4) protect the passer.
The reason it's important to rush the passer is because it's the most efficient way to stop a pass game. If you can protect the passer it's the best way to have an effective pass game.
Over any significant period of time plenty of teams will win by being good running, stopping the run, passing and stopping the pass.
Protecting the passer is obvious. It's foundational, just like the rest of what Gettleman said.
The fact that what Gettleman said was in any way controversial to begin with is head scratching. But yet, it's been used to beat us over the head going on two years that the team is run by incompetent, out of touch dinosaurs that don't know how to win.
Running the ball, stopping the run, rushing the passer is the foundation for which winning teams are built. Even if KC passes for over 500 yards and wins the Superbowl. Not every can draft a Patrick Mahomes, but every team can attempt to win football games using the aforementioned philosophy.
No one gives a flying rat fuck what you say anymore you fucking no good crying waste of a heartbeat. Fuck you.
You're right to leave GoTerps. This place has become absolutely toxic. Zero chance of debating anything with even a remote degree of civility.
Yup, I'd like to see this addressed by those in charge here. I enjoy Joey's actual football analysis but this is pretty disgraceful stuff that shouldn't go unaddressed just the guy used to write game reviews. Come on now.
I understand how Terps' style can grate on people, but the quality of this board only takes a hit if we continue to lose good posters that are willing to think differently and bring critical analysis to the discussion. Terps may find a bit too much enjoyment in telling people when he's right, but the record would show he's been right more often than not. This is all a shame.
Protecting the passer is obvious. It's foundational, just like the rest of what Gettleman said.
The fact that what Gettleman said was in any way controversial to begin with is head scratching. But yet, it's been used to beat us over the head going on two years that the team is run by incompetent, out of touch dinosaurs that don't know how to win.
What many fans want is a GM who puts protecting the passer at the very top of the list. I want a GM who prioritizes it above running the ball.
The Giants have sucked at protecting their QB and it's a big part of why they have been the worst team in the NFL for the last 3 years.
Manning got beat like a bag in 18, Jones got beat like a bag in 19.
I don't think what Gettleman said is controversial, I just think it's incomplete.
If part of what you're saying is pressuring the other team's QB.... Â
No one gives a flying rat fuck what you say anymore you fucking no good crying waste of a heartbeat. Fuck you.
You're right to leave GoTerps. This place has become absolutely toxic. Zero chance of debating anything with even a remote degree of civility.
Yup, I'd like to see this addressed by those in charge here. I enjoy Joey's actual football analysis but this is pretty disgraceful stuff that shouldn't go unaddressed just the guy used to write game reviews. Come on now.
I understand how Terps' style can grate on people, but the quality of this board only takes a hit if we continue to lose good posters that are willing to think differently and bring critical analysis to the discussion. Terps may find a bit too much enjoyment in telling people when he's right, but the record would show he's been right more often than not. This is all a shame.
Fair enough. I think having a balanced team that can play the run and pass well when the situation calls for it is the best bet. Based on everything the new head coach has said he categorically agrees.
I don't a few stats from a small sample size indicates anything. And certainly doesn't justify a dopey quote the GM made -- especially when after 2 years the team isn't high in the league at any of the three pillars be described.
If Gettleman wants to be the Niners, he's got a transformation to make.
Nonsense, I'm not asking for a safe space, but maybe some decency in conversing with people you disagree with? If BBI has always tolerated people interacting in that manner then I must have missed it in my 13 years here.
Nonsense, I'm not asking for a safe space, but maybe some decency in conversing with people you disagree with? If BBI has always tolerated people interacting in that manner then I must have missed it in my 13 years here.
Decency in conversation includes listening and considering what others have to say, especially ones with alternative view points. I don't see a lot of that around here. In terps situation, either you saw it his way or you were wrong like Robbie said above.
This seems important to you. In the interest of full disclosure of what seems like noble intent- did you ever get called out by Joey before? Are your posts on the thread those of a standup guy or someone who is a little verklempt and sees their chance ? That would help understand the dogged pursuit of an outcome in defense of someone elses pain. Thanks BBDBS.
2) Imo, when someone goes off on someone who has gotten a lot of feedback from other posters that their thinking is too biased and it's annoying or they are flat out annoying yet they cant stop themselves uncaring that they are annoying ...I have a lot less sympathy for both players. The guy who cant stop and the guy who cant say it without going overboard share one characteristic: self indulgence and personal self assigned exceptionalism.
Dont distort my post. I'm not blaming the internet victim for someone elses over reaction. I'm pointing out they share common characteristics in regard to the rest of us. They dont respect anyone elses right to effective exchanges on an internet site except when it goes too far for too long.
Go Terps has had the need for time to regain perspective before. Ditto Joey. Usually in the emotional time of offseason when no one yet has much evidence behind any of the usual offseason opinions
Could see both trains going too fast to hold the rails for a week or so. Which poster was in front of the derailments was somewhat happenstance. Imo.
Wait, are we allowed to threaten to murder other posters?? Â
This seems important to you. In the interest of full disclosure of what seems like noble intent- did you ever get called out by Joey before? Are your posts on the thread those of a standup guy or someone who is a little verklempt and sees their chance ? That would help understand the dogged pursuit of an outcome in defense of someone elses pain. Thanks BBDBS.
2) Imo, when someone goes off on someone who has gotten a lot of feedback from other posters that their thinking is too biased and it's annoying or they are flat out annoying yet they cant stop themselves uncaring that they are annoying ...I have a lot less sympathy for both players. The guy who cant stop and the guy who cant say it without going overboard share one characteristic: self indulgence and personal self assigned exceptionalism.
Dont distort my post. I'm not blaming the internet victim for someone elses over reaction. I'm pointing out they share common characteristics in regard to the rest of us. They dont respect anyone elses right to effective exchanges on an internet site except when it goes too far for too long.
Go Terps has had the need for time to regain perspective before. Ditto Joey. Usually in the emotional time of offseason when no one yet has much evidence behind any of the usual offseason opinions
Could see both trains going too fast to hold the rails for a week or so. Which poster was in front of the derailments was somewhat happenstance. Imo.
There is big difference between typical BBI banter back and forth and the way he acts. If he was anyone else this would be different.
I like BBI I wouldn’t visit for 20 years if I didn’t, I will always draw a hard line when it comes to telling someone to go commit suicide. That is not acceptable, no matter who they are.
Has arrests on their record ( which covers all kinds of times and possibilies) is it the cool guy who slips private information in there or is it a shitty thing to do?
How about the seventh grade level game of exaggerating to the extreme and putting that out there as if its an accurate take?
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You are the stupidest poster this site has ever seen. That's a badge of honor my friend, embrace your lack of brains, enjoy being the singular example of why abortion should be legal, why lobotomies are still a good idea and why ritual suicide or lynching has a place in our society. You give us all a reason to hope, that you get hit by a train.
And
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I hope you step on a razor blade, then on a pool of Tabasco laced with Hepatitis and you feed it to your family.
Yeah, it's other people who are the 7th graders. Uh-huh. Good stuff.
Nonsense, I'm not asking for a safe space, but maybe some decency in conversing with people you disagree with? If BBI has always tolerated people interacting in that manner then I must have missed it in my 13 years here.
Decency in conversation includes listening and considering what others have to say, especially ones with alternative view points. I don't see a lot of that around here. In terps situation, either you saw it his way or you were wrong like Robbie said above.
For sure, I’ve disagreed with him plenty of times. It can be frustrating. But I still am consistently interested to see his opinion. I don’t think we’re better off losing his perspective.
But he doesn’t need me to defend him, he’s an adult who can make his own decisions. Also not calling for Joey to be banned either. Just thought he took it too far this time. Moving on
Not really. I have friends, too. Doesn't mean I defend every single thing they say and/or do, especially when it comes to saying stuff as he's said in the past. You're better than that. But to each his own.
I did not defend what he said or did. That's my point. I did not defend Go Terps either. Clearly labeled as such in the first post. Clear paragraph in anticipation of a suboptimal way to read and respond.
I did not anticipate a long time fellow poster on 200 Yankee threads to be the one who fell in the soup. Sorry about that
And for the record, I actually like and interact with both Go Terps and Joey and read their points of view whenever I read them. Have learned from and exchanged well with both of them. Have for many years.
Think its good to move on. See you when our other rooting interest threads start to pick up
I did not defend what he said or did. That's my point. I did not defend Go Terps either. Clearly labeled as such in the first post. Clear paragraph in anticipation of a suboptimal way to read and respond.
I did not anticipate a long time fellow poster on 200 Yankee threads to be the one who fell in the soup. Sorry about that
And for the record, I actually like and interact with both Go Terps and Joey and read their points of view whenever I read them. Have learned from and exchanged well with both of them. Have for many years.
Think its good to move on. See you when our other rooting interest threads start to pick up
I get it. But I don't see how saying posts like that I quoted of his are...out there and really not necessary. There are ways to even insult someone (if that's really what you want to do) without going where he goes sometimes. Have a good one.
My point was that the annoyance cycle from years of the team getting stuck has our posters stuck in misery as well
In regard to the particulars, yes, especially after prior year over reactions, it was over the line. Sorry. I assumed that was common ground we all shared
Now it sounds like football? Because for the past two years it has been considered archaic and out of touch.
This is what happens when you take throwaway quips and soundbites from the GM and run with them, creating entire conspiracy theories around them, and now that the entire playoffs have dictated that running the ball, stopping the run, and rushing the passer STILL wins in this league well now it's just oversimplification....
"Sounds a lot like football, duh..." lol.
First, the entire playoffs aren't over. But that doesn't matter -- if the Chiefs fucking blow the doors off the 9ers with 500 yards passing -- it's still one game and a small sample size.
The bigger point is why does Gettleman make three points 1) run 2) stop the run 3) rush the passer.
Why doesn't he include 4) protect the passer.
The reason it's important to rush the passer is because it's the most efficient way to stop a pass game. If you can protect the passer it's the best way to have an effective pass game.
Over any significant period of time plenty of teams will win by being good running, stopping the run, passing and stopping the pass.
You’re either missing the point or trying to jump through hoops to diminish Gettleman’s point.
Running the ball, stopping the run, and rushing the passer is a philosophy that has stood the test of time in the NFL regardless of the rule changes or various innovations of the last 30 or 40 years. This is why the Patriots consistently beat the Peyton led Colts. This is why the vast majority of the high powered offenses of the last 30 years couldn’t win it all.
The philosophy speaks to the brand of football the team plays. Think 07 Giants. Think Steelers football around the same time. The niners now. It’s about dominating the line of scrimmage.
Most importantly, it’s about the decisions you make to build your roster with a finite amount of resources. It’s about spending money and picks to have a talent edge in the trenches instead of burning the same resources on wide receivers and cornerbacks. It’s about finding players who can stuff the run blitz instead of finesse coverage linebackers. It’s about valuing guys who can block as much as a “matchup nightmare for safeties and linebackers.”
Trying to spin this as something obvious that every team tries to do is just doubling down on stubbornness. It’s plain to see the teams built this way or trying to be built this way and the teams taking an alternate approach.
Why does the team completely lack talent despite turning over the entire roster with his signings/draft picks/players he traded for?
Because he’s missed on some players/decisions and had to turn over the entire roster. When the core players are Engram, Sheppard, and Tomlinson, that isn’t much to build around.
Not Stopping the Run
Not Running the ball
Not Rushing the passer
is any sort of path to winning. Though to be honest, I'm not sure that the Giants are far off from meeting those 3 criteria (in the negative as stated).
Its hard to close out a win if you can't run the ball effectively.
Its hard prevent the opposing team from scoring and getting the ball back to your offense if you can't stop the run.
Its hard to stop the opposing team from running up the score if you can't get to the passer.
In all cases its hard to win if you can't do those things.
THe problem with what Gettleman said was that he left out Protect the passer. Some may think its implied, but the everything about the mantra is so motherhood and apple pie that it should all be implied. So leaving out the protect the passer part is both glaring and jarring. THat said, I don't think Gettleman is stupid enough to think that he doesn't need to build an offensive line capable of protecting the passer.
In the end this all comes down to subtle priorities. By stating it the way he does, Gettleman implies that he gives a a greater priority to running and stopping the run. And his roster construction seems to support the notion that he puts the most priority on stopping the run. When I think just about everybody who watches modern football realizes that teams need to balance their capabilities to some extent.
At the end of the day, Gettleman has only spent 4% of his draft equity on the offensive line, when the point at which the took over the team he had 0 starting offensive lineman. He went to FA where you generally don't find talent and wasted time and a bucket load on Solder, and some more on Omameh. He allowed Jamon Brown to walk for a contract slightly more than what he blew on Omameh. And while Brown will never be mistaken for an All-Pro, his price/performance ratio isn't bad, he is an ok starter. Keeping Brown would have allowed the trade of Vernon for a plus level C or RT. That would mean 1 less position to fill right now. What's more, is that there is no real pipeline of potential future players (maybe we get lucky with Gates, but I think that is still a longshot). So you can say Gettleman is trying with the OL... But his philosophy is broken in major ways. The team should have been grabbing OL early middle and late to replenish a position group that was horribly depleted.
When he fails to effectively address the position, and he leave the position out of his mantra, it gives people pause. It's glaring and jarring. I think its very hard to say that DG has used the resources available to him over the past 2 years effectively. IMO his drafting has be average to marginally above average (but the jury is still out), and part of my biggest problem with him has been his drafting philosophy. It's philosophy where he has almost entirely ignore OL. Which nowadays the only place to find decent OL is in the draft. I would be think quite differently had he picked a couple of OLs out of his 3rd rounders instead of 2 out of 3 of Carter, Hill and Ximines. Or had he traded down from #2 in in 2018 and target OL in that draft... People say that he had no choices... I disagree, he had lots of choices. He just failed to make them.
4% of "draft equity"?? Sounds like another fancy way to complain.
Gettleman has drafted 2 OL out of 16 picks. One in the 2nd round. He's also signed Solder, Omameh, Remmers and traded for Zeitler.
He's basically spread out how he's acquired the OL and he's had all of 2 years to do that.
I guess saying he used 12.5% of his picks on OL didn't sound dubious enough.
Good post FMiC.
And I'd like to add, in the light of the recent discussion about screaming vitriol at one another because of differing opinions, wry humor and/or sarcasm suits your posting style quite well.
People say that he had no choices... I disagree, he had lots of choices. He just failed to make them.
+1000.
I was certain that Gettleman would go hot and heavy for O-Linemen in last year's draft. Not just with high picks, but with the next Trai Turner or Daryl Williams. I was looking forward to it. Naturally, I was shocked and disappointed when it didn't happen.
One year later, the only thing I'm certain of is that I would have fired him along with Pat Shurmur.
4% of "draft equity"?? Sounds like another fancy way to complain.
Gettleman has drafted 2 OL out of 16 picks. One in the 2nd round. He's also signed Solder, Omameh, Remmers and traded for Zeitler.
He's basically spread out how he's acquired the OL and he's had all of 2 years to do that.
I guess saying he used 12.5% of his picks on OL didn't sound dubious enough.
Good post FMiC.
And I'd like to add, in the light of the recent discussion about screaming vitriol at one another because of differing opinions, wry humor and/or sarcasm suits your posting style quite well.
Choices at the time and consequences after the choice are two very different things.
The creative data factoids could also include that of the available likely to be NFL players and the positions available we selected 26.7% of all likely candidates. ( obviously I'm making up the numbers but the point is that the method used to support and opinion weakens the argument?
What's more real insight might be gained by looking at how much longer a rookie needed to get the ball out as compared to a veteran strained the ol holding time to 35% more.
Or absent good performance at center alone caused 56.2% of all pressures. That kind of analysis might help
To me, the players coaches and front office did better than what was left but far short of what we want.
I dunno, I like it when we analyze the play on the field. I think we are on shakey ground and as likely to be wrong as right when we try to pin the tail of product dissapointment on one donkey when we have no idea of the causality and factors ( injuries, bad line calls, etc, etc)
Choices at the time and consequences after the choice are two very different things.
The creative data factoids could also include that of the available likely to be NFL players and the positions available we selected 26.7% of all likely candidates. ( obviously I'm making up the numbers but the point is that the method used to support and opinion weakens the argument?
What's more real insight might be gained by looking at how much longer a rookie needed to get the ball out as compared to a veteran strained the ol holding time to 35% more.
Or absent good performance at center alone caused 56.2% of all pressures. That kind of analysis might help
To me, the players coaches and front office did better than what was left but far short of what we want.
I dunno, I like it when we analyze the play on the field. I think we are on shakey ground and as likely to be wrong as right when we try to pin the tail of product dissapointment on one donkey when we have no idea of the causality and factors ( injuries, bad line calls, etc, etc)
Basically, hindsight is 20/20.
Using "analysis" on unknown variables and causality Â
DG made choices. Some so far good and somee bad and a bunch very much yet inconclusive.
Hopefully he now has stronger voices at the table so the final percent that work out is higher. Couldnt care less who gets credit. I think we are all trying too hard to show we can analyze past the unknowable factors..
I root for the overall product. I dont root for NFGML. Not a sport I understand how to score.
People say that he had no choices... I disagree, he had lots of choices. He just failed to make them.
+1000.
I was certain that Gettleman would go hot and heavy for O-Linemen in last year's draft. Not just with high picks, but with the next Trai Turner or Daryl Williams. I was looking forward to it. Naturally, I was shocked and disappointed when it didn't happen.
One year later, the only thing I'm certain of is that I would have fired him along with Pat Shurmur.
Instead, we drafted a hundred DBs; and now that, unfortunately, may still be a position on need. And that was after DG acquired Peppers.
It’s just remarkable that he was able to keep his job.
View you tend to take possible problems and paint them as reality. I understand pointing out possible shortcomings, but to me it seems you make up your mind even though the reality of the situation is unknown (the db's, peppers). I also am aware the flip side of that by viewing a situation as a success before it is warranted.
View you tend to take possible problems and paint them as reality. I understand pointing out possible shortcomings, but to me it seems you make up your mind even though the reality of the situation is unknown (the db's, peppers). I also am aware the flip side of that by viewing a situation as a success before it is warranted.
Was it a reality that the secondary was a problem the ENTIRE year? Did you see any trends in the group's play to suggest it was going to be better going forward?
I'm all ears if you did.
Granted, a piece could have been coaching. And that may play out this year. But I wouldn't take too much comfort in that right now. It's not like we hired an upper echelon DC.
View you tend to take possible problems and paint them as reality. I understand pointing out possible shortcomings, but to me it seems you make up your mind even though the reality of the situation is unknown (the db's, peppers). I also am aware the flip side of that by viewing a situation as a success before it is warranted.
Was it a reality that the secondary was a problem the ENTIRE year? Did you see any trends in the group's play to suggest it was going to be better going forward?
I'm all ears if you did.
Granted, a piece could have been coaching. And that may play out this year. But I wouldn't take too much comfort in that right now. It's not like we hired an upper echelon DC.
What I remember most about the secondary was 10 yard cushions on 3rd and 7.
I also remember Peppers having a very nice season before getting hurt.
I didn't agree with everything he said, but there was a pattern of thinking he had that quite honestly the Giants management needed and that most fans don't ever delve into.
I also saw him as reactive to insults, his ideas were out of the norm and caused people to attack, but you rarely saw him shoot the first shot. The only people Terps aggressively attacked were the Giants management and rightfully so, they are the worst team in the league.
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Ralph Vacchiano
@RVacchianoSNY
·
1h
Updated through 10 playoff games:
Teams are averaging 130.7 rushing yards per game and 236.8 passing yards per game.
Winning teams are averaging 154.5 rushing, 211.4 passing.
Losing teams are averaging 106.8 rushing, 262.2 passing.
You do realize how skewed those numbers are by San Fran and Tennessee? Where in three of those 10 games their QBs combined passing attempts totaled 39. Those numbers reflect football in the 1970s.
I love it, but I think those results are more outliers than trends.
I’ve been around for a long time and it always sticks out and I would think it’s a liability. Writing for the site shouldn’t give him a life time pass for extremely poor behavior that I’m sure in the right hands could shut this whole place down.
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Now it sounds like football? Because for the past two years it has been considered archaic and out of touch.
This is what happens when you take throwaway quips and soundbites from the GM and run with them, creating entire conspiracy theories around them, and now that the entire playoffs have dictated that running the ball, stopping the run, and rushing the passer STILL wins in this league well now it's just oversimplification....
"Sounds a lot like football, duh..." lol.
First, the entire playoffs aren't over. But that doesn't matter -- if the Chiefs fucking blow the doors off the 9ers with 500 yards passing -- it's still one game and a small sample size.
The bigger point is why does Gettleman make three points 1) run 2) stop the run 3) rush the passer.
Why doesn't he include 4) protect the passer.
The reason it's important to rush the passer is because it's the most efficient way to stop a pass game. If you can protect the passer it's the best way to have an effective pass game.
Over any significant period of time plenty of teams will win by being good running, stopping the run, passing and stopping the pass.
Protecting the passer is obvious. It's foundational, just like the rest of what Gettleman said.
The fact that what Gettleman said was in any way controversial to begin with is head scratching. But yet, it's been used to beat us over the head going on two years that the team is run by incompetent, out of touch dinosaurs that don't know how to win.
Running the ball, stopping the run, rushing the passer is the foundation for which winning teams are built. Even if KC passes for over 500 yards and wins the Superbowl. Not every can draft a Patrick Mahomes, but every team can attempt to win football games using the aforementioned philosophy.
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No one gives a flying rat fuck what you say anymore you fucking no good crying waste of a heartbeat. Fuck you.
You're right to leave GoTerps. This place has become absolutely toxic. Zero chance of debating anything with even a remote degree of civility.
Yup, I'd like to see this addressed by those in charge here. I enjoy Joey's actual football analysis but this is pretty disgraceful stuff that shouldn't go unaddressed just the guy used to write game reviews. Come on now.
I understand how Terps' style can grate on people, but the quality of this board only takes a hit if we continue to lose good posters that are willing to think differently and bring critical analysis to the discussion. Terps may find a bit too much enjoyment in telling people when he's right, but the record would show he's been right more often than not. This is all a shame.
The fact that what Gettleman said was in any way controversial to begin with is head scratching. But yet, it's been used to beat us over the head going on two years that the team is run by incompetent, out of touch dinosaurs that don't know how to win.
What many fans want is a GM who puts protecting the passer at the very top of the list. I want a GM who prioritizes it above running the ball.
The Giants have sucked at protecting their QB and it's a big part of why they have been the worst team in the NFL for the last 3 years.
Manning got beat like a bag in 18, Jones got beat like a bag in 19.
I don't think what Gettleman said is controversial, I just think it's incomplete.
If you say the O-line needs to be fixed, then you're doing that in order to run AND protect your passes. Again, this is obvious.
He shouldn't have to spell it out.
If you say the O-line needs to be fixed, then you're doing that in order to run AND protect your passes. Again, this is obvious.
He shouldn't have to spell it out.
And would you agree the General Manager has not done a good job of fixing the line to both run and protect the passer?
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why is shit like this allowed?
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No one gives a flying rat fuck what you say anymore you fucking no good crying waste of a heartbeat. Fuck you.
You're right to leave GoTerps. This place has become absolutely toxic. Zero chance of debating anything with even a remote degree of civility.
Yup, I'd like to see this addressed by those in charge here. I enjoy Joey's actual football analysis but this is pretty disgraceful stuff that shouldn't go unaddressed just the guy used to write game reviews. Come on now.
I understand how Terps' style can grate on people, but the quality of this board only takes a hit if we continue to lose good posters that are willing to think differently and bring critical analysis to the discussion. Terps may find a bit too much enjoyment in telling people when he's right, but the record would show he's been right more often than not. This is all a shame.
+1
Have thicker skin.
Have thicker skin.
There is a big difference between having thicker skin and literally being excessively threatened by someone with arrests on their background.
Have thicker skin.
And that is the solution. I agree.
Unfortunately this place has always proved that the pen is mightier than the sword.
Fair enough. I think having a balanced team that can play the run and pass well when the situation calls for it is the best bet. Based on everything the new head coach has said he categorically agrees.
I don't a few stats from a small sample size indicates anything. And certainly doesn't justify a dopey quote the GM made -- especially when after 2 years the team isn't high in the league at any of the three pillars be described.
If Gettleman wants to be the Niners, he's got a transformation to make.
Have thicker skin.
Nonsense, I'm not asking for a safe space, but maybe some decency in conversing with people you disagree with? If BBI has always tolerated people interacting in that manner then I must have missed it in my 13 years here.
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We don't need it to be a safe space.
Have thicker skin.
Nonsense, I'm not asking for a safe space, but maybe some decency in conversing with people you disagree with? If BBI has always tolerated people interacting in that manner then I must have missed it in my 13 years here.
Decency in conversation includes listening and considering what others have to say, especially ones with alternative view points. I don't see a lot of that around here. In terps situation, either you saw it his way or you were wrong like Robbie said above.
This seems important to you. In the interest of full disclosure of what seems like noble intent- did you ever get called out by Joey before? Are your posts on the thread those of a standup guy or someone who is a little verklempt and sees their chance ? That would help understand the dogged pursuit of an outcome in defense of someone elses pain. Thanks BBDBS.
2) Imo, when someone goes off on someone who has gotten a lot of feedback from other posters that their thinking is too biased and it's annoying or they are flat out annoying yet they cant stop themselves uncaring that they are annoying ...I have a lot less sympathy for both players. The guy who cant stop and the guy who cant say it without going overboard share one characteristic: self indulgence and personal self assigned exceptionalism.
Dont distort my post. I'm not blaming the internet victim for someone elses over reaction. I'm pointing out they share common characteristics in regard to the rest of us. They dont respect anyone elses right to effective exchanges on an internet site except when it goes too far for too long.
Go Terps has had the need for time to regain perspective before. Ditto Joey. Usually in the emotional time of offseason when no one yet has much evidence behind any of the usual offseason opinions
Could see both trains going too fast to hold the rails for a week or so. Which poster was in front of the derailments was somewhat happenstance. Imo.
Are we allowed to read accurately?
How about the seventh grade level game of exaggerating to the extreme and putting that out there as if its an accurate take?
This seems important to you. In the interest of full disclosure of what seems like noble intent- did you ever get called out by Joey before? Are your posts on the thread those of a standup guy or someone who is a little verklempt and sees their chance ? That would help understand the dogged pursuit of an outcome in defense of someone elses pain. Thanks BBDBS.
2) Imo, when someone goes off on someone who has gotten a lot of feedback from other posters that their thinking is too biased and it's annoying or they are flat out annoying yet they cant stop themselves uncaring that they are annoying ...I have a lot less sympathy for both players. The guy who cant stop and the guy who cant say it without going overboard share one characteristic: self indulgence and personal self assigned exceptionalism.
Dont distort my post. I'm not blaming the internet victim for someone elses over reaction. I'm pointing out they share common characteristics in regard to the rest of us. They dont respect anyone elses right to effective exchanges on an internet site except when it goes too far for too long.
Go Terps has had the need for time to regain perspective before. Ditto Joey. Usually in the emotional time of offseason when no one yet has much evidence behind any of the usual offseason opinions
Could see both trains going too fast to hold the rails for a week or so. Which poster was in front of the derailments was somewhat happenstance. Imo.
There is big difference between typical BBI banter back and forth and the way he acts. If he was anyone else this would be different.
I like BBI I wouldn’t visit for 20 years if I didn’t, I will always draw a hard line when it comes to telling someone to go commit suicide. That is not acceptable, no matter who they are.
Are we allowed to read accurately?
How about the seventh grade level game of exaggerating to the extreme and putting that out there as if its an accurate take?
And
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I hope you step on a razor blade, then on a pool of Tabasco laced with Hepatitis and you feed it to your family.
Yeah, it's other people who are the 7th graders. Uh-huh. Good stuff.
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In comment 14787124 Britt in VA said:
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We don't need it to be a safe space.
Have thicker skin.
Nonsense, I'm not asking for a safe space, but maybe some decency in conversing with people you disagree with? If BBI has always tolerated people interacting in that manner then I must have missed it in my 13 years here.
Decency in conversation includes listening and considering what others have to say, especially ones with alternative view points. I don't see a lot of that around here. In terps situation, either you saw it his way or you were wrong like Robbie said above.
For sure, I’ve disagreed with him plenty of times. It can be frustrating. But I still am consistently interested to see his opinion. I don’t think we’re better off losing his perspective.
But he doesn’t need me to defend him, he’s an adult who can make his own decisions. Also not calling for Joey to be banned either. Just thought he took it too far this time. Moving on
time to move on from this
time to move on from this
Not really. I have friends, too. Doesn't mean I defend every single thing they say and/or do, especially when it comes to saying stuff as he's said in the past. You're better than that. But to each his own.
I did not anticipate a long time fellow poster on 200 Yankee threads to be the one who fell in the soup. Sorry about that
And for the record, I actually like and interact with both Go Terps and Joey and read their points of view whenever I read them. Have learned from and exchanged well with both of them. Have for many years.
Think its good to move on. See you when our other rooting interest threads start to pick up
I did not anticipate a long time fellow poster on 200 Yankee threads to be the one who fell in the soup. Sorry about that
And for the record, I actually like and interact with both Go Terps and Joey and read their points of view whenever I read them. Have learned from and exchanged well with both of them. Have for many years.
Think its good to move on. See you when our other rooting interest threads start to pick up
I get it. But I don't see how saying posts like that I quoted of his are...out there and really not necessary. There are ways to even insult someone (if that's really what you want to do) without going where he goes sometimes. Have a good one.
My point was that the annoyance cycle from years of the team getting stuck has our posters stuck in misery as well
In regard to the particulars, yes, especially after prior year over reactions, it was over the line. Sorry. I assumed that was common ground we all shared
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Now it sounds like football? Because for the past two years it has been considered archaic and out of touch.
This is what happens when you take throwaway quips and soundbites from the GM and run with them, creating entire conspiracy theories around them, and now that the entire playoffs have dictated that running the ball, stopping the run, and rushing the passer STILL wins in this league well now it's just oversimplification....
"Sounds a lot like football, duh..." lol.
First, the entire playoffs aren't over. But that doesn't matter -- if the Chiefs fucking blow the doors off the 9ers with 500 yards passing -- it's still one game and a small sample size.
The bigger point is why does Gettleman make three points 1) run 2) stop the run 3) rush the passer.
Why doesn't he include 4) protect the passer.
The reason it's important to rush the passer is because it's the most efficient way to stop a pass game. If you can protect the passer it's the best way to have an effective pass game.
Over any significant period of time plenty of teams will win by being good running, stopping the run, passing and stopping the pass.
You’re either missing the point or trying to jump through hoops to diminish Gettleman’s point.
Running the ball, stopping the run, and rushing the passer is a philosophy that has stood the test of time in the NFL regardless of the rule changes or various innovations of the last 30 or 40 years. This is why the Patriots consistently beat the Peyton led Colts. This is why the vast majority of the high powered offenses of the last 30 years couldn’t win it all.
The philosophy speaks to the brand of football the team plays. Think 07 Giants. Think Steelers football around the same time. The niners now. It’s about dominating the line of scrimmage.
Most importantly, it’s about the decisions you make to build your roster with a finite amount of resources. It’s about spending money and picks to have a talent edge in the trenches instead of burning the same resources on wide receivers and cornerbacks. It’s about finding players who can stuff the run blitz instead of finesse coverage linebackers. It’s about valuing guys who can block as much as a “matchup nightmare for safeties and linebackers.”
Trying to spin this as something obvious that every team tries to do is just doubling down on stubbornness. It’s plain to see the teams built this way or trying to be built this way and the teams taking an alternate approach.
Why does the team completely lack talent despite turning over the entire roster with his signings/draft picks/players he traded for?
Just didn't realize until now that concept was borne on BBI...
Just didn't realize until now that concept was borne on BBI...
Your being very obtuse
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To the point where putting someone in "timeout" makes sense.
Just didn't realize until now that concept was borne on BBI...
Your being very obtuse
I would have said moreso acute...
Why does the team completely lack talent despite turning over the entire roster with his signings/draft picks/players he traded for?
Because he’s missed on some players/decisions and had to turn over the entire roster. When the core players are Engram, Sheppard, and Tomlinson, that isn’t much to build around.
Not Running the ball
Not Rushing the passer
is any sort of path to winning. Though to be honest, I'm not sure that the Giants are far off from meeting those 3 criteria (in the negative as stated).
Its hard to close out a win if you can't run the ball effectively.
Its hard prevent the opposing team from scoring and getting the ball back to your offense if you can't stop the run.
Its hard to stop the opposing team from running up the score if you can't get to the passer.
In all cases its hard to win if you can't do those things.
THe problem with what Gettleman said was that he left out Protect the passer. Some may think its implied, but the everything about the mantra is so motherhood and apple pie that it should all be implied. So leaving out the protect the passer part is both glaring and jarring. THat said, I don't think Gettleman is stupid enough to think that he doesn't need to build an offensive line capable of protecting the passer.
In the end this all comes down to subtle priorities. By stating it the way he does, Gettleman implies that he gives a a greater priority to running and stopping the run. And his roster construction seems to support the notion that he puts the most priority on stopping the run. When I think just about everybody who watches modern football realizes that teams need to balance their capabilities to some extent.
At the end of the day, Gettleman has only spent 4% of his draft equity on the offensive line, when the point at which the took over the team he had 0 starting offensive lineman. He went to FA where you generally don't find talent and wasted time and a bucket load on Solder, and some more on Omameh. He allowed Jamon Brown to walk for a contract slightly more than what he blew on Omameh. And while Brown will never be mistaken for an All-Pro, his price/performance ratio isn't bad, he is an ok starter. Keeping Brown would have allowed the trade of Vernon for a plus level C or RT. That would mean 1 less position to fill right now. What's more, is that there is no real pipeline of potential future players (maybe we get lucky with Gates, but I think that is still a longshot). So you can say Gettleman is trying with the OL... But his philosophy is broken in major ways. The team should have been grabbing OL early middle and late to replenish a position group that was horribly depleted.
When he fails to effectively address the position, and he leave the position out of his mantra, it gives people pause. It's glaring and jarring. I think its very hard to say that DG has used the resources available to him over the past 2 years effectively. IMO his drafting has be average to marginally above average (but the jury is still out), and part of my biggest problem with him has been his drafting philosophy. It's philosophy where he has almost entirely ignore OL. Which nowadays the only place to find decent OL is in the draft. I would be think quite differently had he picked a couple of OLs out of his 3rd rounders instead of 2 out of 3 of Carter, Hill and Ximines. Or had he traded down from #2 in in 2018 and target OL in that draft... People say that he had no choices... I disagree, he had lots of choices. He just failed to make them.
Gettleman has drafted 2 OL out of 16 picks. One in the 2nd round. He's also signed Solder, Omameh, Remmers and traded for Zeitler.
He's basically spread out how he's acquired the OL and he's had all of 2 years to do that.
I guess saying he used 12.5% of his picks on OL didn't sound dubious enough.
Gettleman has drafted 2 OL out of 16 picks. One in the 2nd round. He's also signed Solder, Omameh, Remmers and traded for Zeitler.
He's basically spread out how he's acquired the OL and he's had all of 2 years to do that.
I guess saying he used 12.5% of his picks on OL didn't sound dubious enough.
Good post FMiC.
And I'd like to add, in the light of the recent discussion about screaming vitriol at one another because of differing opinions, wry humor and/or sarcasm suits your posting style quite well.
+1000.
I was certain that Gettleman would go hot and heavy for O-Linemen in last year's draft. Not just with high picks, but with the next Trai Turner or Daryl Williams. I was looking forward to it. Naturally, I was shocked and disappointed when it didn't happen.
One year later, the only thing I'm certain of is that I would have fired him along with Pat Shurmur.
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4% of "draft equity"?? Sounds like another fancy way to complain.
Gettleman has drafted 2 OL out of 16 picks. One in the 2nd round. He's also signed Solder, Omameh, Remmers and traded for Zeitler.
He's basically spread out how he's acquired the OL and he's had all of 2 years to do that.
I guess saying he used 12.5% of his picks on OL didn't sound dubious enough.
Good post FMiC.
And I'd like to add, in the light of the recent discussion about screaming vitriol at one another because of differing opinions, wry humor and/or sarcasm suits your posting style quite well.
Do you have any idea HOW OLD he is?
The creative data factoids could also include that of the available likely to be NFL players and the positions available we selected 26.7% of all likely candidates. ( obviously I'm making up the numbers but the point is that the method used to support and opinion weakens the argument?
What's more real insight might be gained by looking at how much longer a rookie needed to get the ball out as compared to a veteran strained the ol holding time to 35% more.
Or absent good performance at center alone caused 56.2% of all pressures. That kind of analysis might help
To me, the players coaches and front office did better than what was left but far short of what we want.
I dunno, I like it when we analyze the play on the field. I think we are on shakey ground and as likely to be wrong as right when we try to pin the tail of product dissapointment on one donkey when we have no idea of the causality and factors ( injuries, bad line calls, etc, etc)
The creative data factoids could also include that of the available likely to be NFL players and the positions available we selected 26.7% of all likely candidates. ( obviously I'm making up the numbers but the point is that the method used to support and opinion weakens the argument?
What's more real insight might be gained by looking at how much longer a rookie needed to get the ball out as compared to a veteran strained the ol holding time to 35% more.
Or absent good performance at center alone caused 56.2% of all pressures. That kind of analysis might help
To me, the players coaches and front office did better than what was left but far short of what we want.
I dunno, I like it when we analyze the play on the field. I think we are on shakey ground and as likely to be wrong as right when we try to pin the tail of product dissapointment on one donkey when we have no idea of the causality and factors ( injuries, bad line calls, etc, etc)
Basically, hindsight is 20/20.
DG made choices. Some so far good and somee bad and a bunch very much yet inconclusive.
Hopefully he now has stronger voices at the table so the final percent that work out is higher. Couldnt care less who gets credit. I think we are all trying too hard to show we can analyze past the unknowable factors..
I root for the overall product. I dont root for NFGML. Not a sport I understand how to score.
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People say that he had no choices... I disagree, he had lots of choices. He just failed to make them.
+1000.
I was certain that Gettleman would go hot and heavy for O-Linemen in last year's draft. Not just with high picks, but with the next Trai Turner or Daryl Williams. I was looking forward to it. Naturally, I was shocked and disappointed when it didn't happen.
One year later, the only thing I'm certain of is that I would have fired him along with Pat Shurmur.
Instead, we drafted a hundred DBs; and now that, unfortunately, may still be a position on need. And that was after DG acquired Peppers.
It’s just remarkable that he was able to keep his job.
Was it a reality that the secondary was a problem the ENTIRE year? Did you see any trends in the group's play to suggest it was going to be better going forward?
I'm all ears if you did.
Granted, a piece could have been coaching. And that may play out this year. But I wouldn't take too much comfort in that right now. It's not like we hired an upper echelon DC.
49ers threw a total of 8 passes and had 42 rushing attempts.
They ran first and only passed if they felt they had to. Green Bay couldn't stop the run FIRST so there was no need for SF to stop running the ball.
Anyone wanna try the "They were only running because they had the lead" argument?
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View you tend to take possible problems and paint them as reality. I understand pointing out possible shortcomings, but to me it seems you make up your mind even though the reality of the situation is unknown (the db's, peppers). I also am aware the flip side of that by viewing a situation as a success before it is warranted.
Was it a reality that the secondary was a problem the ENTIRE year? Did you see any trends in the group's play to suggest it was going to be better going forward?
I'm all ears if you did.
Granted, a piece could have been coaching. And that may play out this year. But I wouldn't take too much comfort in that right now. It's not like we hired an upper echelon DC.
What I remember most about the secondary was 10 yard cushions on 3rd and 7.
I also remember Peppers having a very nice season before getting hurt.
I didn't agree with everything he said, but there was a pattern of thinking he had that quite honestly the Giants management needed and that most fans don't ever delve into.
I also saw him as reactive to insults, his ideas were out of the norm and caused people to attack, but you rarely saw him shoot the first shot. The only people Terps aggressively attacked were the Giants management and rightfully so, they are the worst team in the league.
Guess the mouthbreathers won this round.