Says draft starts with Detroit as Cinci as an organziation almost never trades in round 1 and will 99.99% take Burrow themselves. Young as almost a definite in Washington.
Thinks Detroit is where it gets interesting as teams picking 5,6,and 7 (and possibly 9 with Jags) all want a QB. And teams are still very high on Tua despite the injury. Of course they want to see positive progress but teams dont think its a career threatener like some originally speculated.
Ideal in my opinion is if Det picks there and we trade down to 5,6 or 7. Picking up another 2020 high pick.
Like Okudah a lot but NYG may not want top 2 CBs to be a 1st and 2nd year player. We may go the vet route here as FA will have a good amount of decent CBs. Wonder if an OT will rank high enough there.
Daniel Jeremiah - (
New Window )
Correct.
Zero chance.
Be great to get the extra picks and only trade down a few spots.
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I do think there is a chance the Redskins take Simmons over Young
Zero chance.
Yep no way. If they don’t take Young they will trade out to someone that will. Young is going second. Period
Interesting... well Rivera was an LB himself, played next to an all timer in Singletary, and just came from a team led by a great MLB. He's calling the shots in the draft - could lead to a less conventional selection.
Sy is also a fan of the NYG. It’s most likely nothing more than wishful thinking that somehow the best player in this draft falls into our laps at 4. In reality, it’s not happening. We had our chance to get him and failed.
The Giants desperately need an elite playmaker on defense, and Young and Simmons seem to be the two in this draft that could become that.
Flashing big time on tape. 6'7 370, but can move. Someone here has touted early.. but he's got buzz around him. Saw some video of him completely eliminate ND's Okwara (bro of former giant that is early round pick).
He's a bully that should be in the conversation for us. Huge upside.
Mekai Becton, OT Louisville - ( New Window )
He will. I expect him to run 4.45ish.
That guy looks like a monster. Jeremiah also said he was a beast that no one is talking about YET. Can he pass block?
Take it back to Matt Millen
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We have to root for Herbert to have a monster combine.
He will. I expect him to run 4.45ish.
No, he won't. He'll run no faster than 4.6, and 4.7 is very realistic. 4.45 isn't happening, that's a fairy tale.
The Giants desperately need an elite playmaker on defense, and Young and Simmons seem to be the two in this draft that could become that.
That's actually a DREAM scenario, because that would mean Tua is still on the board, and we would be getting offers from teams wanting to jump Miami. We'd be able to trade down and get a lot of help for OL, where there should be value.
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In comment 14786314 Danny Kanell said:
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We have to root for Herbert to have a monster combine.
He will. I expect him to run 4.45ish.
No, he won't. He'll run no faster than 4.6, and 4.7 is very realistic. 4.45 isn't happening, that's a fairy tale.
I think Beckham ran a 4.42 or 4.43. I haven't seem much of Herbert, but I don't think he's in Beckham's neighborhood speed-wise.
Miami might want to make certain that they can get Tua
That will make the 3rd and 4th picks in play
In this scenario teams know that they will have to trade up if they want a premium QB
It is possible that Detroit trades out of #3 to a team that covets Hebert
That would put the Giants in the enviable position to run to the podium for Young
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We have to root for Herbert to have a monster combine.
He will. I expect him to run 4.45ish.
That's insane. Close to RGIII and better than Wilson. No way he gets that I'd think
Miami might want to make certain that they can get Tua
That will make the 3rd and 4th picks in play
In this scenario teams know that they will have to trade up if they want a premium QB
It is possible that Detroit trades out of #3 to a team that covets Hebert
That would put the Giants in the enviable position to run to the podium for Young
Pass me what you're smoking. The problem is, Herbert isn't good enough to trade up to the top of the draft.
The other problem would be why would teams want to Jump the Giants and Washington for the third best QB (presumably) in the draft?
Once you get past Burrow and Tua, I think you have plenty of QBs that are close enough that one of them will fall to you. Eason, Fromm, Jordan Love...in this draft, you trade up for the elite guys but they are a lot of talented QBs in the next tier. I personally don't have Herbert as an elite prospect.
I have to say the only ones I'd be 'disappointed' by would be taking Jeudy or an OT for different reasons. To me WR is a luxury pick until your O-line and Pass rush are set...ours aren't. As far as the OT's I'm not sold that any are Top 5 blue chip prospects.
I have to say the only ones I'd be 'disappointed' by would be taking Jeudy or an OT for different reasons. To me WR is a luxury pick until your O-line and Pass rush are set...ours aren't. As far as the OT's I'm not sold that any are Top 5 blue chip prospects.
Wirfs might surprise he's extremely athletic. Also Jeremiah is in love with Becton as a top 10 pick.
Ideal in my opinion is if Det picks there and we trade down to 5,6 or 7. Picking up another 2020 high pick.
Giants are at 4. The Dolphins figure the Giants won't draft a QB. So if the Dolphins want Tua, they sit tight. UNLESS:
1) The Giants take Tua to trade him. That could happen. Gmen could take him then start taking offers. At that point, the Giants could basically have a little auction: A top-10 pick and whatever the other guys can offer. But this feels un-Giants-like unless the trade is mostly in place in advance, like the Giants drafting Rivers to trade him for Eli.
OR:
2) The Dolphins are afraid the Chargers or Panthers will leapfrog them. and decide to take no chances.
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Ideal in my opinion is if Det picks there and we trade down to 5,6 or 7. Picking up another 2020 high pick.
Giants are at 4. The Dolphins figure the Giants won't draft a QB. So if the Dolphins want Tua, they sit tight. UNLESS:
1) The Giants take Tua to trade him. That could happen. Gmen could take him then start taking offers. At that point, the Giants could basically have a little auction: A top-10 pick and whatever the other guys can offer. But this feels un-Giants-like unless the trade is mostly in place in advance, like the Giants drafting Rivers to trade him for Eli.
OR:
2) The Dolphins are afraid the Chargers or Panthers will leapfrog them. and decide to take no chances.
We call Miami and tell them we have a strong offer from LA or Car. If they want Tua they need to give us pick 18 or 26.
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OP wrote:
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Ideal in my opinion is if Det picks there and we trade down to 5,6 or 7. Picking up another 2020 high pick.
Giants are at 4. The Dolphins figure the Giants won't draft a QB. So if the Dolphins want Tua, they sit tight. UNLESS:
1) The Giants take Tua to trade him. That could happen. Gmen could take him then start taking offers. At that point, the Giants could basically have a little auction: A top-10 pick and whatever the other guys can offer. But this feels un-Giants-like unless the trade is mostly in place in advance, like the Giants drafting Rivers to trade him for Eli.
OR:
2) The Dolphins are afraid the Chargers or Panthers will leapfrog them. and decide to take no chances.
We call Miami and tell them we have a strong offer from LA or Car. If they want Tua they need to give us pick 18 or 26.
Wait, you expect Gettleman, who instructed his staff not to pick up the phone to even listen to offers two years ago to not only seek to trade down, but make calls to do it? This one year after he held a press conference saying he did not shop the ODB offer he had from CLE because if you are the one making the calls it compromises your negotiating power?
And Herbert is not running a 4.45. That is approaching Murray and Lamar Jackson territory, even though neither one ran the 40. Herbert will likely be in that 4.6 or 4.7 range, so long as his technique is not sloppy and he is in shape for the Combine. I think he's faster than Burrow.
It is highly unlikely that he will turn out that way, but Herbert offers a Mahomes-like skill set. Fast, cannon arm, and he is huge. He could easily vault to top 5 territory.
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unless they're scared by Stafford's back injury. Either way though Tua QB is going #3. We'll be looking at Okudah/Jeudy/Simmons/OT of choice/trade down.
I have to say the only ones I'd be 'disappointed' by would be taking Jeudy or an OT for different reasons. To me WR is a luxury pick until your O-line and Pass rush are set...ours aren't. As far as the OT's I'm not sold that any are Top 5 blue chip prospects.
Wirfs might surprise he's extremely athletic. Also Jeremiah is in love with Becton as a top 10 pick.
I agree with the Wirfs mention, kid has LT/RT ability written all over him and is plug and play day 1 at RT imho, he’s a bully in the run game with extremely quick feet. That being said, he’s the only one I’d consider at 4 at the moment. I’ve seen Becton in one game and he impressed so now I’ve gotta go back and watch more tape on him. Imo it’s either Simmons or Okudah at 4 if they’re there. If Chase Young somehow magically falls to 4, that’s a no brainer run to the podium ASAP move but I highly doubt that happens unless Rivera likes Simmons more, which is a real good possibility given that they have some young talented ends they’ve drafted in recent years who seem to be on the upswing. Also could see Okudah here because they need a DB
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In comment 14786465 81_Great_Dane said:
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OP wrote:
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Ideal in my opinion is if Det picks there and we trade down to 5,6 or 7. Picking up another 2020 high pick.
Giants are at 4. The Dolphins figure the Giants won't draft a QB. So if the Dolphins want Tua, they sit tight. UNLESS:
1) The Giants take Tua to trade him. That could happen. Gmen could take him then start taking offers. At that point, the Giants could basically have a little auction: A top-10 pick and whatever the other guys can offer. But this feels un-Giants-like unless the trade is mostly in place in advance, like the Giants drafting Rivers to trade him for Eli.
OR:
2) The Dolphins are afraid the Chargers or Panthers will leapfrog them. and decide to take no chances.
We call Miami and tell them we have a strong offer from LA or Car. If they want Tua they need to give us pick 18 or 26.
Wait, you expect Gettleman, who instructed his staff not to pick up the phone to even listen to offers two years ago to not only seek to trade down, but make calls to do it? This one year after he held a press conference saying he did not shop the ODB offer he had from CLE because if you are the one making the calls it compromises your negotiating power?
And Herbert is not running a 4.45. That is approaching Murray and Lamar Jackson territory, even though neither one ran the 40. Herbert will likely be in that 4.6 or 4.7 range, so long as his technique is not sloppy and he is in shape for the Combine. I think he's faster than Burrow.
It is highly unlikely that he will turn out that way, but Herbert offers a Mahomes-like skill set. Fast, cannon arm, and he is huge. He could easily vault to top 5 territory.
Mahomes isn’t overly fast, he’s just smart when running. Also, Mahomes not only the cannon arm, but the ability to make throws at different angles, Herbert doesn’t have that skill
The Giants desperately need an elite playmaker on defense, and Young and Simmons seem to be the two in this draft that could become that.
No it wouldn’t it would leave the giants to be able to trade down with someone looking for Tua
For me all these OT's are bunched up and none makes the grade as a Top 5 pick.
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In comment 14786466 Pheonix Orion said:
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In comment 14786465 81_Great_Dane said:
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OP wrote:
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Ideal in my opinion is if Det picks there and we trade down to 5,6 or 7. Picking up another 2020 high pick.
Giants are at 4. The Dolphins figure the Giants won't draft a QB. So if the Dolphins want Tua, they sit tight. UNLESS:
1) The Giants take Tua to trade him. That could happen. Gmen could take him then start taking offers. At that point, the Giants could basically have a little auction: A top-10 pick and whatever the other guys can offer. But this feels un-Giants-like unless the trade is mostly in place in advance, like the Giants drafting Rivers to trade him for Eli.
OR:
2) The Dolphins are afraid the Chargers or Panthers will leapfrog them. and decide to take no chances.
We call Miami and tell them we have a strong offer from LA or Car. If they want Tua they need to give us pick 18 or 26.
Wait, you expect Gettleman, who instructed his staff not to pick up the phone to even listen to offers two years ago to not only seek to trade down, but make calls to do it? This one year after he held a press conference saying he did not shop the ODB offer he had from CLE because if you are the one making the calls it compromises your negotiating power?
And Herbert is not running a 4.45. That is approaching Murray and Lamar Jackson territory, even though neither one ran the 40. Herbert will likely be in that 4.6 or 4.7 range, so long as his technique is not sloppy and he is in shape for the Combine. I think he's faster than Burrow.
It is highly unlikely that he will turn out that way, but Herbert offers a Mahomes-like skill set. Fast, cannon arm, and he is huge. He could easily vault to top 5 territory.
Mahomes isn’t overly fast, he’s just smart when running. Also, Mahomes not only the cannon arm, but the ability to make throws at different angles, Herbert doesn’t have that skill
You have no disagreement from me that Mahomes can make throws at different angles that Herbert cannot. I do believe that teams will be looking to trade up for Tua and/or Herbert. I have no doubt about Tua. Herbert is more of a wild card, but he was in the running for a top 5 pick last year. Teams will be looking to move up to get Herbert this year, I believe.
Wait, you expect Gettleman, who instructed his staff not to pick up the phone to even listen to offers two years ago to not only seek to trade down, but make calls to do it? This one year after he held a press conference saying he did not shop the ODB offer he had from CLE because if you are the one making the calls it compromises your negotiating power?
#1 - He wanted Barkley. What is there to understand? I'll say it again - He wanted Barkley. That is the guy he wanted why would he listen to offers when there wasn't another player he wanted more in that draft?
#2 - He is right on the 1st call to trade a player unless you want to get rid of the player so badly that you do not care what you get. Calling another team to trade a player rumored to be on the block dispels any notion that you even remotely want to keep him and the price goes down.
I think Detroit is a wildcard in the QB sweepstakes. Stafford isn't getting any younger and the injuries are taking their toll. They need to realize that the opportunity to pick in the top 3 might not come again (they hope). Stafford isn't going to be the guy that can put the hardware in the trophy case especially with that ridiculous contract. Speaking of which, 2020 can and should be the last year in Detroit as there is a $10M roster bonus due on the 5th day of the league year in 2021. Releasing or trading him before the roster bonus is due only will eat $13M in dead cap.
They need to do their homework on the prospects and if Tua's medicals check out, they should take him and Stafford would serve as the bridge. When they are out of the playoff race, then Tua can take over.
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Wait, you expect Gettleman, who instructed his staff not to pick up the phone to even listen to offers two years ago to not only seek to trade down, but make calls to do it? This one year after he held a press conference saying he did not shop the ODB offer he had from CLE because if you are the one making the calls it compromises your negotiating power?
#1 - He wanted Barkley. What is there to understand? I'll say it again - He wanted Barkley. That is the guy he wanted why would he listen to offers when there wasn't another player he wanted more in that draft?
because you should always listen...
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In comment 14786477 Giants38 said:
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Wait, you expect Gettleman, who instructed his staff not to pick up the phone to even listen to offers two years ago to not only seek to trade down, but make calls to do it? This one year after he held a press conference saying he did not shop the ODB offer he had from CLE because if you are the one making the calls it compromises your negotiating power?
#1 - He wanted Barkley. What is there to understand? I'll say it again - He wanted Barkley. That is the guy he wanted why would he listen to offers when there wasn't another player he wanted more in that draft?
because you should always listen...
There are two sides to everything. Listening when you're not going to accept the offer is misleading other teams. Risks ruining relationships for future deals. Plus, then the word gets out that the Giants were offered 2 #1's plus a #2 or whatever and they turned it down. Then you get every NY media a$$hat arguing what they should have done. Barkley is truly special a la Barry, Faulk, Emmitt, etc. If you have conviction that this is the player you want, it makes sense to simply take him and not go through the whole negotiation thing.
And just because Gettleman did that 2 years ago, why would you assume he'd do the same thing this year? There's no player in this year's draft like Barkley at #4, unless you count Young. Then it's a legitimate discussion re: if Young falls to #4 (very unlikely), do you take him or trade for a king's ransom in picks.
There are two sides to everything. Listening when you're not going to accept the offer is misleading other teams. Risks ruining relationships for future deals. Plus, then the word gets out that the Giants were offered 2 #1's plus a #2 or whatever and they turned it down. Then you get every NY media a$$hat arguing what they should have done. Barkley is truly special a la Barry, Faulk, Emmitt, etc. If you have conviction that this is the player you want, it makes sense to simply take him and not go through the whole negotiation thing.
This is so wrong...
You always listen. You never know what kind of offer is out there.
SS:
1) The Giants take Tua to trade him. That could happen. Gmen could take him then start taking offers. At that point, the Giants could basically have a little auction: A top-10 pick and whatever the other guys can offer. But this feels un-Giants-like unless the trade is mostly in place in advance, like the Giants drafting Rivers to trade him for Eli.
You cant do this anymore. You cant immediately trade drafted players.
How often do we have to see it posted as fact that Gettleman refused to take calls or didn't shop deals? A lot. why? Because people supposedly listened to one thing and ignored the rest.
That's worked out just fucking dandy for this board.
How often do we have to see it posted as fact that Gettleman refused to take calls or didn't shop deals? A lot. why? Because people supposedly listened to one thing and ignored the rest.
That's worked out just fucking dandy for this board.
I think Washington stays put and takes Chase Young. Detroit makes the most sense for a trade down for Miami.. They get to move down a few spots.. pick up some draft capital and wind up taking someone they had very highly rated anyway..
Unfortunately, if Washington did draft Tua, it's almost nailed on that Detroit would take Chase Young.
Unfortunately, if Washington did draft Tua, it's almost nailed on that Detroit would take Chase Young.
That isn't necessarily a bad thing becuase it could decrease the supply of QB's at #4 and potentially net the Giants more in a trade down. Ideally for the Giants, as many QB's as possible get selected before they pick especially if they decide to trade down.
This is so wrong...
You always listen. You never know what kind of offer is out there.
Obviously I disagree. I think in theory you're right, but in certain cases, it's not necessarily the right move.
Say you have the #1 pick and you need a QB. Say it's 1989 and Aikman is there. Or it's 1998 and it's Peyton. As GM you've done the research and are locked on a QB as your #1 pick - which could significantly alter your team's future for the next decade. I'd much rather my GM focus on the rest of the draft then a) waste time listening to offers, and b) worse, accepting a king's ransom of lower picks which may or may not work out and passing on a future HoF QB.
GM's know significantly more than we do about players. If you sincerely believe that drafting X player will significantly impact your team for years to come, I understand sticking by that conviction and focusing your attention on the rest of the draft.
In Gettleman's case, he clearly felt Barkley was the second coming of Sanders / Faulk (drafted #3 / #2 respectively). Argue whether it was the right move or not, but I don't fault him for sticking to his convictions and not getting swayed by an extra 3rd round pick.
Herbert's bit of a wildcard... too much up and down but it just takes one QB desperate team to want to take gamble on upside. Is he a 2nd round QB like Lock or will a team pull the trigger earlier...
Hide the chewing gum...
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In comment 14786563 HMunster said:
This is so wrong...
You always listen. You never know what kind of offer is out there.
Obviously I disagree. I think in theory you're right, but in certain cases, it's not necessarily the right move.
Say you have the #1 pick and you need a QB. Say it's 1989 and Aikman is there. Or it's 1998 and it's Peyton. As GM you've done the research and are locked on a QB as your #1 pick - which could significantly alter your team's future for the next decade. I'd much rather my GM focus on the rest of the draft then a) waste time listening to offers, and b) worse, accepting a king's ransom of lower picks which may or may not work out and passing on a future HoF QB.
GM's know significantly more than we do about players. If you sincerely believe that drafting X player will significantly impact your team for years to come, I understand sticking by that conviction and focusing your attention on the rest of the draft.
In Gettleman's case, he clearly felt Barkley was the second coming of Sanders / Faulk (drafted #3 / #2 respectively). Argue whether it was the right move or not, but I don't fault him for sticking to his convictions and not getting swayed by an extra 3rd round pick.
Munster really - waste time listening to draft offers? It's only 10 minutes. You have your guy targeted, you listen to any offers that are out there and make your decision. It's 10 minutes! Assuming you don't trade and you have only one 1st round pick, you're not picking again for about 24 hours.
If simply listening to trade offers will throw off your GM's ability to focus on the rest of the draft, you clearly have a GM with some issues.
Team screaming for QB will pay a kings ransom. 5,6,7 if one of those teams also like Herbert in addition to Tua, NYG could still cash in by only trading down a couple spots . Going to be a very interesting draft starting with what happens at 3 with DET.
I think Washington stays put and takes Chase Young. Detroit makes the most sense for a trade down for Miami.. They get to move down a few spots.. pick up some draft capital and wind up taking someone they had very highly rated anyway..
Only way they don't is if they also want the QB or if somehow they absolutely love Simmons, Okudah or Brown and think we take one of those guys.
Herbert's bit of a wildcard... too much up and down but it just takes one QB desperate team to want to take gamble on upside. Is he a 2nd round QB like Lock or will a team pull the trigger earlier...
Herbert looks more like the bust kind to me. Looks stiff and mechanical.
Unfortunately, if Washington did draft Tua, it's almost nailed on that Detroit would take Chase Young.
Haskins the guy that was talking to fans and missed getting back into the game on time? That is leadership right there. lol
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Still think when all is said and done he goes top 5 provided the prognosis of recovery remains promising. The body of work is just too good at Alabama and he has all the makeup and intangibles that you want in a QB.
Herbert's bit of a wildcard... too much up and down but it just takes one QB desperate team to want to take gamble on upside. Is he a 2nd round QB like Lock or will a team pull the trigger earlier...
Herbert looks more like the bust kind to me. Looks stiff and mechanical.
You are right but he has a ton of tools and it takes just one team to believe in coaching him up.
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In comment 14786327 Saos1n said:
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I do think there is a chance the Redskins take Simmons over Young
Zero chance.
Yep no way. If they don’t take Young they will trade out to someone that will. Young is going second. Period
Unless Young went to HS with one of the kids of the owner.
Or take Lawrence next year.
As most years there will be some surprise risers that crack the top 10 and even top 5. Mekhi may be one of them.