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Some thoughts on the NFC Championship Game

gidiefor : Mod : 1/20/2020 9:11 am
What's new about seeing Aaron Rogers fail in the NFC Championship game?

It doesn't seem to matter who the coach is in Green Bay, it's the same game. The man has uber QB skills; has had some of the best WRs to play with in the game; he produces all year; and then plays the same mystifying game in the playoffs either front to back or back to front. Is it the coach, the team around him, or does Aaron Rogers lack the needed assassin instinct.

He's probably going to be a first ballot Hall of Famer, and Eli Manning has one more ring than he does right now despite Rogers having several more paths to the Lombardi than Eli had, and the never ending debate of whether Eli merits being in the Hall of Fame.

It accentuates for me how fragile a path NFL greatness really is. It takes heaping spoons of talent, grit, coolness under fire, toughness, ability to execute under pressure in a timely fashion, and plain old fashioned luck. Just how great is it that Eli frikking Manning led the Giants to 2 Lombardis?!!!!!

By the way. Eli Manning beat a 49er's team just a tough as last night's team - if not tougher with shear grit and toughness. He was under much heavier fire than Roger's was for the entire game. Just how incredible was that NFC Championship game in 2012. I don;t know about you - but I will never forget it and I was on the edge of my seat the whole game. And then to follow it up by beating for the second time 6 ring Brady!!!!!

Those are thoughts running through my head all night and through this morning.
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RE: You can say the same thing about Drew Brees.  
Big Blue '56 : 1/20/2020 9:38 am : link
In comment 14786649 truebluelarry said:
Quote:
He and rogers are regular season stat compilers, but Eli has more hardware. I'll take 2 Lombardi trophies over passing records every time. Yards only win in fantasy football.


I said this after XLII and repeated it after XLVI (and my mind has never changed), Iíll take many crappy seasons for a SB win every 10 years. All that has ever mattered to me since our first SB win, is the hardware. Period. End of story. For this fan.
gidiefor...  
M.S. : 1/20/2020 9:39 am : link

...I'm not sure how far you can take this argument.

After all, it's not like Aaron Rodgers allowed San Fran to rush for almost 300 yards.

Green Bay was behind the 8-Ball early on. Very difficult circumstances for any QB, especially going up against the 49ers pass rush!

Yea, Aaron Rodgers didn't cover himself with any glory yesterday, but he is not the reason why Green Bay was puched to the floor and kicked in the teeth.

That would be Green Bay's defense, which raised the white flag and begged for mercy before the end of the first half.
There..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 1/20/2020 9:40 am : link
doesn't need to be a Rodgers excuse team.

The D allowed 300 yards rushing! The opposing QB threw the ball less than a single-wing QB.

Rodgers didn't look like he wanted any part of facing the Niners D, and I think that's a valid observation, but there aren't excuses here - they got their asses whooped.
Many of you  
LakeGeorgeGiant : 1/20/2020 9:40 am : link
told me that McCarthy was holding this douchenozzle back. Shouldn't he be winning championships now?

What's the excuse now?
RE: What I took..  
Victor in CT : 1/20/2020 9:40 am : link
In comment 14786655 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
away from that game is that Rodgers didn't want any part of taking a beating from SF's D.

That's why the 2011 Championship Game will always live as one of the greatest Giants games to watch.


yep
A Couple of Things  
lax counsel : 1/20/2020 9:42 am : link
1) Games like these do bring out just how special Eli was at moments in his career;

2) That being said, the reason Rodgers had so many shots at a super bowl is due in no small part to how well he played during the regular season - at times carrying his team. We never saw a lot of Eli elevating the team around him (2011 the exception), especially at the back end of his career. That carries a lot of weight, especially with analysts;

3) While Eli played great in SF in 2011/12, made big throws, the defense and special teams made big plays as well. Rodgers could have played as well as Eli last night and still lost 37-20; and

4) This playoff run really drove home the point of getting home field advantage with a big regular season. Though the Titans made a valiant run, the days of sneaking into the playoffs as a wild card or mediocre division winner seem long gone.
RE: There..  
robbieballs2003 : 1/20/2020 9:42 am : link
In comment 14786703 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
doesn't need to be a Rodgers excuse team.

The D allowed 300 yards rushing! The opposing QB threw the ball less than a single-wing QB.

Rodgers didn't look like he wanted any part of facing the Niners D, and I think that's a valid observation, but there aren't excuses here - they got their asses whooped.


Exactly. Nobody is making excuses for Rodgers but to lay this loss at one person's feet is ridiculous especially after the D got trampled all night.
RE: You can say the same thing about Drew Brees.  
Victor in CT : 1/20/2020 9:42 am : link
In comment 14786649 truebluelarry said:
Quote:
He and rogers are regular season stat compilers, but Eli has more hardware. I'll take 2 Lombardi trophies over passing records every time. Yards only win in fantasy football.


Me too Larry!
RE: Many of you  
Jimmy Googs : 1/20/2020 9:44 am : link
In comment 14786705 LakeGeorgeGiant said:
Quote:
told me that McCarthy was holding this douchenozzle back. Shouldn't he be winning championships now?

What's the excuse now?


Yeah what a complete underachiever Rodgers is...
RE: here's the thing  
twostepgiants : 1/20/2020 9:48 am : link
In comment 14786687 djm said:
Quote:
you put any great all timer on that Packer team last night, and ask them to win that game, they aren't. I don't care who is playing QB for them. Brady, Brees, Eli, PEyton, JAckson, Montana, or Rodgers. The niners were flat out better.


Rodgers played terribly last night. An absolute terrible fumble that was just poked out of his hand that killed a potential big play that led to points the other way, he fumbled the snap which killed a potential TD drive and another bad pick that led to points,

On top of that he looked defeated and uninterested even early in the game.
RE: There..  
M.S. : 1/20/2020 9:51 am : link
In comment 14786703 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
doesn't need to be a Rodgers excuse team.

The D allowed 300 yards rushing! The opposing QB threw the ball less than a single-wing QB.

Rodgers didn't look like he wanted any part of facing the Niners D, and I think that's a valid observation, but there aren't excuses here - they got their asses whooped.

Definitely Aaron Rodgers had that look on his face that sorta said, "Why did I get out of bed this morning?"
As Giant fans we know that look  
Jimmy Googs : 1/20/2020 9:53 am : link
better than anybody...
I don't know..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 1/20/2020 9:53 am : link
if it is the beard or the sagging eyes, but Rodgers looked like he became old overnight.

He looks more like Sam Elliott than his younger self.
RE: I don't know..  
Big Blue '56 : 1/20/2020 9:56 am : link
In comment 14786732 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
if it is the beard or the sagging eyes, but Rodgers looked like he became old overnight.

He looks more like Sam Elliott than his younger self.


In fairness, Danica Patrick wears him out. Constantly.
That prior game this year with SF  
Jim in Forest Hills : 1/20/2020 9:58 am : link
I think also set the tone. They whupped up on Rodgers, that DL was feasting on him. SO it was already in his head that his OL couldn't protect him. This was the worst matchup for GB.
Then again  
Jim in Forest Hills : 1/20/2020 9:58 am : link
maybe SF is a bad matchup for everyone.
Rodgers  
djstat : 1/20/2020 9:59 am : link
Certainly missed a lot of tackles as 31 sliced and diced his way for 290 all purpose yards and 4 tds.
FMiC  
UConn4523 : 1/20/2020 10:04 am : link
outside of a Rodgers injury Iím not sure I agree. Close calls or bounces happen. I expect their offense to be better (they lost Adams for 4/5 games plus he wasnít fully healed when he came back) and youíd think they would add a piece somewhere on defense.

In any case I donít really get the back patting on this one (not you). Heís an all time great QB, a bad playoff loss doesnít change that.
RE: Many of you  
UConn4523 : 1/20/2020 10:06 am : link
In comment 14786705 LakeGeorgeGiant said:
Quote:
told me that McCarthy was holding this douchenozzle back. Shouldn't he be winning championships now?

What's the excuse now?


Are you able to go back 5 years, fire McCarthy and get someone else? If not whatís the point of your post? This isnít elite Rodgers anymore, the years McCarthy had him for. Heís still very good, IMO but not that level anymore.
RE: FMiC  
FatMan in Charlotte : 1/20/2020 10:08 am : link
In comment 14786747 UConn4523 said:
Quote:
outside of a Rodgers injury Iím not sure I agree. Close calls or bounces happen. I expect their offense to be better (they lost Adams for 4/5 games plus he wasnít fully healed when he came back) and youíd think they would add a piece somewhere on defense.

In any case I donít really get the back patting on this one (not you). Heís an all time great QB, a bad playoff loss doesnít change that.


Rodgers is one of my favorite QB's to have watched play. I just see him slowing down a bit, which is natural, and I think he'll be fortunate to not get injured next season. I don't think he's done, and I don't think vintage Rodgers could overcome that SF running game yesterday. But I think his glory days are behind him.
I have a slightly different view on GB and last nights game.  
DonQuixote : 1/20/2020 10:19 am : link
The Packers won six more games this year than last year. If I were a GB fan I am not missing Mike McCarthy at all or blaming Rogers for the loss. They got beat twice handily by the 9ers, they were not the better team and that is not on Rogers. He is a great QB but was not winning that game last night.

Did you all notice GB almost climb back in with two deep balls against what should have been the prevent? The secondary better play better to beat the Chiefs.
BBI in a Nutshell  
Jim in Tampa : 1/20/2020 10:22 am : link
When the Giants win it's all about the QB.

When the Giants lose it's all about everybody BUT the QB.

When the other team loses it's all about the QB.
2011 NFCC  
Dave in PA : 1/20/2020 10:25 am : link
Was some seriously nerve wracking stuff. The kind of game as a fan you just hope you get to live through once in your life. Eli delivered x2.
My thoughts  
SLIM_ : 1/20/2020 10:36 am : link
Somewhat millering.

- Yesterday's game just adds to Rodgers body of work of coming up small in the biggest games. He has more interceptions than touchdowns in NFC championship games for his career. Great player but in a big game, I choose a lot of QB's over him. You may want to dispute that he hasn't had the best teams. The 2011 Giant game is a reply to that. Best team in the league by far and he along with his team came up small. This isn't Eli vs. Rodgers. This is just the simple fact that there are better big time QB's.

- The 49ers are a very solid team from top to bottom and the Chiefs are incredibly explosive. I'll add that the Ravens matched up much better against the Chiefs than the Titans did but that is why you play the game. Other than that, I don't see much else in regards to really good teams in the league. The Titans could be in QB hell. Packers are nowhere as good as a 13-3 team should traditionally be. Patriots may have finally hit a wall. Any team can rebound very quickly and be competing. This isn't a Giants can do it this year. I actually think that the Cowboys are probably one if not the most talented team in the league.

-
Just revisited Eli highlights from 2011 SF game  
NoPeanutz : 1/20/2020 10:38 am : link
on youtube.
What a classic game. Watching it still makes the hairs stand up on one's neck, like the Giants could still lose it.
Some thoughts:

-That was a mean game up front. SF came to play, and the Giants knew what they were getting into. Eli took every snap anticipating a nasty rush, and the guys in the trenches on both sides are getting completely boxed and banged around. Just flinging themselves at full speed into the lines. Speed, and power and fatigue and disgust from the weather that day... You don't see many games like that anymore.

-3rd down conversions. The Giants were only 7-21, but SF was 1-13. At least 6, maybe all 7 of those third downs were converted passing the ball. Deadly. Including 3rd and 15 for the 4th quarter TD to Manningham.

-Where the hell did Victor Cruz come from in 2011? He didn't just make play after play after play in season, but look at the respect that he gets from SF defense... after only 16 or so professional starts. Incredible. 10-142 in the game.
Eli highlights at SF 2011 ship - ( New Window )
So I open this thread thinking its about last nights game  
RDJR : 1/20/2020 10:51 am : link
and it ends up being about Eli and some unnecessary comparison to Rodgers. Why do we feel the need to defend Eli and compare him to others at every turn? His career stands on its own.
I will say..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 1/20/2020 10:53 am : link
this about Brees. He's benefited greatly from playing inside the comfy confines of a dome. In the playoffs, when they've had to go on the road, they haven't fared well.

Brees overall passer rating is 11 points higher at home and in one less game, he has 12 more losses on the road. GB and Rodgers has a similar dynamic on the road, but the away record is far worse.

Rodgers is actually under .500 on the road. In one more game, he has 28 additional losses.
Rodgers' wr corps  
bc4life : 1/20/2020 10:59 am : link
was not good enough yesterday. But their defense simply could not stop 49ers
RE: What I took..  
clatterbuck : 1/20/2020 11:10 am : link
In comment 14786655 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
away from that game is that Rodgers didn't want any part of taking a beating from SF's D.

That's why the 2011 Championship Game will always live as one of the greatest Giants games to watch.


+1
RE: I thought the Packers  
John In CO : 1/20/2020 11:10 am : link
In comment 14786664 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:
Quote:
were the least impressive 13-3 team I could recall so I wasn't stunned by yesterday's result.


I said prior to last weeks games that I just didnt buy in to either Seattle or Green Bay, so obviously I pretty much expected yesterdays result. I really believe that Minnesota would have beaten either of those teams if they had played them.
Maybe You Don't Have to Run  
clatterbuck : 1/20/2020 11:23 am : link
for 300 yards to win, or run much at all. But if you let the other team run for 300, you're going to lose. Will be very interested if Spags' D can slow down the SF running game.
RE: So I open this thread thinking its about last nights game  
bluepepper : 1/20/2020 11:30 am : link
In comment 14786820 RDJR said:
Quote:
and it ends up being about Eli and some unnecessary comparison to Rodgers. Why do we feel the need to defend Eli and compare him to others at every turn? His career stands on its own.

BBI ritual this time of year. See last year's thread about Rivers after a playoff loss where the other team dropped 35 in the first half.
RE: RE: What I took..  
Giants38 : 1/20/2020 11:43 am : link
In comment 14786853 clatterbuck said:
Quote:
In comment 14786655 FatMan in Charlotte said:


Quote:


away from that game is that Rodgers didn't want any part of taking a beating from SF's D.

That's why the 2011 Championship Game will always live as one of the greatest Giants games to watch.



+1


Look, it's not an Eli vs. Rodgers comparison. But Eli led the Giants on two SB runs facing literally the hardest schedule (record wise) to get there. He won 5 road games - not including the neutral site SBs - to do so. He was the SB MVP in both SBs. And he did it with Kevin Gilbride as his OC in both.

Eli is 2-0 in NFC Title Games and hasn't thrown a pick in either. Rodgers is 1-3 in 4 appearances and has more INTs to TDs. He fumbled the snap yesterday and made no effort to even recover the ball. That's not on the D, that is on him.

Eli was at his biggest in the biggest of games. Other than really the Carolina loss in his second season - in which he was terrible - Eli was routinely good to great in PO games. It is not his fault that they lost in GB in 2016 - despite the final score - where his WRs went to Mexico and then couldn't catch a thing in that game.

I'm not saying GB wasn't outmanned in that game. They were. But even Tennessee kept it close for a while against KC before dooming themselves to a loss by playing ultra conservatively.

Look at the list of QBs Eli has beaten on his way to SB titles: Rodgers; Favre; Brady (2). In all those games, the Giants were underdogs (if not massive ones). It takes a team effort to win, but tell me when Rodgers has been at his best. He was fantastic in 2010, but otherwise has not been that great in the postseason.
RE: That prior game this year with SF  
bradshaw44 : 1/20/2020 11:47 am : link
In comment 14786737 Jim in Forest Hills said:
Quote:
I think also set the tone. They whupped up on Rodgers, that DL was feasting on him. SO it was already in his head that his OL couldn't protect him. This was the worst matchup for GB.


In the first game Rodgers didn't have either of his starting OT. So I don't think he expected this to happen again.
Even if the giants  
crick n NC : 1/20/2020 11:50 am : link
Didn't win in SF in 11, I still would have admired Manning's toughness. You don't have to win the game to give a tough gritty performance. Manning's was tough and gritty regardless.
one play  
giantfan2000 : 1/20/2020 12:09 pm : link
the muffed exchange from the center
in replay you can see Rodgers stood there and just watched the ball
did not even make an effort to recover it ..

he definitely made an executive decision not to be part of a scrum with San Fran DL.

I mean it is the CHAMPIONSHIP GAME.. you have to make some sort of effort .
I donít know that Rodgers has all that much talent  
Section331 : 1/20/2020 12:36 pm : link
around him. Adams and Jones, thatís about it. Graham can flash every now and then, but isnít the same player he was a couple of years ago. They need a deep threat to keep teams from doubling Adams.

And the defense has been vastly overrated all year. Sure, they were better than last year, but still not good. Pettine relies too heavily on man, and gets burned.
That game didn't tell me much about Aaron Rodgers  
Mike from Ohio : 1/20/2020 12:49 pm : link
Green Bay lost because their defense was physically pushed all over the field by a better 49er team. It is pretty hard to win any game when your opponent rushes for 300 yards and only throws 8 passes.

I don't think any QB under those circumstances has a chance to win that game.
one huge thing about Eli and those magical and great playoff runs  
djm : 1/20/2020 1:11 pm : link
you can look at points scored in some of those games and use that as an indictment on Eli all you want, but to Eli's credit he never allowed the Giants offense to fall behind much at all in any of those games. And that's huge. Other than the WC game at tampa where I believe it was 10-0 Tampa? Maybe even just 7-0, but other than that, every time a game started to get scary, Eli and the offense either tied things up or took the lead, and quick.

Rodgers didn't do that yesterday. Yea he hung up some points, and maybe you can use that as a way to defend him a little bit yesterday, but you cannot fall behind 3-4 scores in January and expect to win very often.

Eli held serve time and time again in these games and he did it against some amazingly good opposition. When Rodgers was behind 21-0 in a blink, Eli was tied with SF in that 2011 NFC title game. When Lamar Jackson got his face punched early on and often, Eli was leading the Giants down the field for back to back FG drives in that 2007 NFC title game. When Prescott was down big early on to the Packers in the 2016 divisional playoff game, Eli was jumping out early on those same packers in the 2011 divisional playoff game in GB. Fall behind big early, you're dead 9-10 times. PRescott got Dallas close, but not enough in the end.
so much about these big January games  
djm : 1/20/2020 1:24 pm : link
comes down doing what you do best. By jumping out to early leads or keeping things close, it allowed the Giants to play a time of possession game or play their game. Who knows how things break if the first quarter doesn't go according to plan. One ripple and shit can get hairy.
RE: Not just for the OP but I will never understand why this board  
allstarjim : 1/20/2020 1:26 pm : link
In comment 14786695 Jimmy Googs said:
Quote:
canít appreciate Eli without the unnecessary comparisons or bad takes on Rodgers particularly.


For once I agree with you. It's strange.
RE: RE: What I took..  
GloryDayz : 1/20/2020 1:33 pm : link
In comment 14786660 robbieballs2003 said:
Quote:
In comment 14786655 FatMan in Charlotte said:


Quote:


away from that game is that Rodgers didn't want any part of taking a beating from SF's D.

That's why the 2011 Championship Game will always live as one of the greatest Giants games to watch.



But the only reason we look at Eli like that is because our D and ST played the role as well. Eli kept us in that game. It took all three phases. Comparing that game to the one last night is disingenuous. Rodgers and that O really had no shot because the game was decided on the other side of the ball. GB's defense vs. SF's offense decided that game.


The other side of the coin, if GB's offense was able to sustain a drive or 2 in the first half, maybe their defense wouldnt have looked so bad, and the game wouldnt have practically been over by half time.

It goes both ways...
Aaron Rodgers and Tannehill  
Coach Red Beaulieu : 1/20/2020 1:34 pm : link
Are mortal, intimidated by a tough team playing in a tough opponents stadium in a championship game in January.

Weapon X Eli is the freak who chumps off playing in arctic GB and hellish SF quagmire.
Not close to finished  
KWALL2 : 1/20/2020 2:03 pm : link
They need a good TE, a burner at WR, and some more defensive help. They'll be back in the mix next year.

The guy is still an elite QB and passer. He's got plenty left.

Strange seeing Eli fans comment on another QBs demeanor, facial expressions, etc. Just like with Eli, that shit means nothing. If they stopped the run a little there is no issue with his demeanor.
That 2012 game is one of my favorite games of all time  
lawguy9801 : 1/20/2020 2:05 pm : link
But re last night...Aaron Rodgers couldn't play D. Garoppolo only needed to pass the ball 8 times. Raheem Mostert (!) ran for 220 yards and 4 TDs and you could have driven a Mack truck through the holes the SF OL was opening up.

Not really seeing how Rodgers was the culprit last night.
WR  
Simms : 1/20/2020 2:15 pm : link
GB played with two drafted WR
Adams was a number two and there was a #5. All others were from practice squads, undrafted college players, or unsigned FA's.

Toss in there suspect defense it's amazing they made it to the championship game.
RE: RE: RE: What I took..  
DonQuixote : 1/20/2020 3:55 pm : link
In comment 14786893 Giants38 said:
Quote:
In comment 14786853 clatterbuck said:


Quote:


In comment 14786655 FatMan in Charlotte said:


Quote:


away from that game is that Rodgers didn't want any part of taking a beating from SF's D.

That's why the 2011 Championship Game will always live as one of the greatest Giants games to watch.



+1



Look, it's not an Eli vs. Rodgers comparison. But Eli led the Giants on two SB runs facing literally the hardest schedule (record wise) to get there. He won 5 road games - not including the neutral site SBs - to do so. He was the SB MVP in both SBs. And he did it with Kevin Gilbride as his OC in both.

Eli is 2-0 in NFC Title Games and hasn't thrown a pick in either. Rodgers is 1-3 in 4 appearances and has more INTs to TDs. He fumbled the snap yesterday and made no effort to even recover the ball. That's not on the D, that is on him.

Eli was at his biggest in the biggest of games. Other than really the Carolina loss in his second season - in which he was terrible - Eli was routinely good to great in PO games. It is not his fault that they lost in GB in 2016 - despite the final score - where his WRs went to Mexico and then couldn't catch a thing in that game.

I'm not saying GB wasn't outmanned in that game. They were. But even Tennessee kept it close for a while against KC before dooming themselves to a loss by playing ultra conservatively.

Look at the list of QBs Eli has beaten on his way to SB titles: Rodgers; Favre; Brady (2). In all those games, the Giants were underdogs (if not massive ones). It takes a team effort to win, but tell me when Rodgers has been at his best. He was fantastic in 2010, but otherwise has not been that great in the postseason.


I think Rogers is a great QB, but this is a good post that puts Eli in perspective
RE: RE: Not just for the OP but I will never understand why this board  
Jimmy Googs : 1/20/2020 9:27 pm : link
In comment 14787069 allstarjim said:
Quote:
In comment 14786695 Jimmy Googs said:


Quote:


canít appreciate Eli without the unnecessary comparisons or bad takes on Rodgers particularly.




For once I agree with you. It's strange.


It is strange. You should probably be agreeing with me far more often...
RE: Just revisited Eli highlights from 2011 SF game  
LTIsTheGreatest : 1/21/2020 1:27 pm : link
In comment 14786800 NoPeanutz said:
Quote:
on youtube.
What a classic game. Watching it still makes the hairs stand up on one's neck, like the Giants could still lose it.
Some thoughts:

-That was a mean game up front. SF came to play, and the Giants knew what they were getting into. Eli took every snap anticipating a nasty rush, and the guys in the trenches on both sides are getting completely boxed and banged around. Just flinging themselves at full speed into the lines. Speed, and power and fatigue and disgust from the weather that day... You don't see many games like that anymore.

-3rd down conversions. The Giants were only 7-21, but SF was 1-13. At least 6, maybe all 7 of those third downs were converted passing the ball. Deadly. Including 3rd and 15 for the 4th quarter TD to Manningham.

-Where the hell did Victor Cruz come from in 2011? He didn't just make play after play after play in season, but look at the respect that he gets from SF defense... after only 16 or so professional starts. Incredible. 10-142 in the game. Eli highlights at SF 2011 ship - ( New Window )


Eli took such a beating in that game and just kept getting back up. INcredible grit he showed that day. It wasn't the game winner but the play I remember most was his scramble on 3rd down alte in the 4th quarter to get away from the rush and flinging it downfield to Bradshaw at midfield for a 29 yard gain and extend that drive.
RE: You can say the same thing about Drew Brees.  
BestFeature : 1/21/2020 1:54 pm : link
In comment 14786649 truebluelarry said:
Quote:
He and rogers are regular season stat compilers, but Eli has more hardware. I'll take 2 Lombardi trophies over passing records every time. Yards only win in fantasy football.


I would too, but (and I'm not suggesting you're saying this) that doesn't make Eli a better QB than them. Lots of luck and teammates' contributions go into winning SBs.
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