Jason at OTC lists the most projected cap space (NYG 7th)

Locked up long term. Dallas and Tennessee have some major players to keep. Add in the fact that we could create a lot more cap room with certain move and we are in a great spot.

up a lot of space signing Dak and maybe Cooper as well as many other guys that need to be resigned.

We are in great shape.

Jason_OTC (@Jason_OTC)
1/20/20, 6:40 PM
One other thing on the rules for next year. I’d think there is a chance that if you dont use the cap room you wont be able to carry it over since the CBA could run out. So if you were saving cap room for a rainy day, 2020 free agency may be that rainy day

Ogletree
+
Martin
+
Ellison
+
Bethea
?

In comment 14787467 90.Cal said:

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Ogletree + Martin + Ellison + Bethea ?

Keep going on that list!!!! ;)

In comment 14787467 90.Cal said:

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Ogletree + Martin + Ellison + Bethea ?

THAT is the big question.

i think all 4 should be cut. go with connelly and another ILB(littleton or simmons?)

love starts at FS unless we find a vet in FA

have smith and engram at TE

martin isnt anything, i expect at least one edge rusher added

In comment 14787470 BobsYourUncle said:

Quote:

In comment 14787467 90.Cal said: Quote: Ogletree + Martin + Ellison + Bethea ? Keep going on that list!!!! ;)

I think that puts us at around 80 mil... add Solder and put it toward 90 or keep him another year to mentor the rookie tackle we draft.. 80/90 mil... at that point who cares keep him and go to town on the defense!

In comment 14787473 90.Cal said:

Quote:

In comment 14787470 BobsYourUncle said: Quote: In comment 14787467 90.Cal said: Quote: Ogletree + Martin + Ellison + Bethea ? Keep going on that list!!!! ;) I think that puts us at around 80 mil... add Solder and put it toward 90 or keep him another year to mentor the rookie tackle we draft.. 80/90 mil... at that point who cares keep him and go to town on the defense!

Solder should be a message cut.

For that Dalls cap hell that everyones been talking about for the last 10 years that never actually happened

If we needed the money then okay but we don't. You keep him on this team and make him earn his spot. I also think he'd be open to a pay cut. He already talked about wanting to stay here in NY because he talked about doing what is best for the team by possibly playing RT. Imo, at the very least we could trade him. Too many teams are desperate along the OL as are we. A team would give something up for him over a flat out cut.

cracks me up to see Ogletree like all these recent Giants social media posts about Judge etc. knowing damn well his ass won’t be here.

In comment 14787486 BigBluesman said:

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I think that puts us at around 80 mil... add Solder and put it toward 90 or keep him another year to mentor the rookie tackle we draft.. 80/90 mil... at that point who cares keep him and go to town on the defense! Solder should be a message cut.

Well, yeah and his replacement is......? crickets...

You don't cut him until there is a viable replacement. I don't disagree he has been awful. But there really is worse than awful and that is nobody.

In comment 14787467 90.Cal said:

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Ogletree + Martin + Ellison + Bethea ?

Those 4 add $20.8M in extra space.

In comment 14787458 Defenderdawg said:

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Jason_OTC (@Jason_OTC) 1/20/20, 6:40 PM One other thing on the rules for next year. I’d think there is a chance that if you dont use the cap room you wont be able to carry it over since the CBA could run out. So if you were saving cap room for a rainy day, 2020 free agency may be that rainy day

This could mean some BIG contracts

In comment 14787502 Chocco said:

Quote:

In comment 14787458 Defenderdawg said: Quote: Jason_OTC (@Jason_OTC) 1/20/20, 6:40 PM One other thing on the rules for next year. I’d think there is a chance that if you dont use the cap room you wont be able to carry it over since the CBA could run out. So if you were saving cap room for a rainy day, 2020 free agency may be that rainy day This could mean some BIG contracts

It could mean the opposite. Giving out big long term contracts when the space doesn't carry over could be dangerous. I can see bigger 1 year contracts but not necessarily more longer term contracts.

In comment 14787489 TommyWiseau said:

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For that Dalls cap hell that everyones been talking about for the last 10 years that never actually happened

Dallas has $81M in cap space but also has to re-sign or replace many starters, some at expensive positions:
QB
WR1
Slot WR
TE
DE
DT
SLB
WLB
CB1
FS
K
LS

ILB Alec Ogletree

2020 cap number: $11.75 million

Cap space created if cut: $8.25 million

TE Rhett Ellison

2020 cap number: $7.18 million

Cap space created if cut: $5 million

OLB Kareem Martin

2020 cap number: $5.96 million

Cap space created if cut: $4.8 million

FS Antoine Bethea

2020 cap number: $2.875 million

Cap space created if cut: $2.75 million

“It would be a shocker if the Giants retained him. He turns 36 next summer, is clearly fading, and would carry just a $125,000 dead money hit in 2020 if cut. Easy decision here. Give Julian Love a shot at free safety.”

WR Golden Tate

2020 cap number: $10.3 million

Cap space created if cut: $3.3 million

“The Giants just paid him big money, but what if they fire general manager Dave Gettleman? The new GM wouldn’t have allegiance to the Tate signing, like Gettleman would. The problem here is that the Giants would have to eat a $7 million dead money hit if they cut Tate. Might as well just keep him around at the $10.3 million cap number, in that case.”



Link - ( New Window )

In comment 14787467 90.Cal said:

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Ogletree + Martin + Ellison + Bethea ?

This adds another 18-20 million.

In comment 14787458 Defenderdawg said:

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Jason_OTC (@Jason_OTC) 1/20/20, 6:40 PM One other thing on the rules for next year. I’d think there is a chance that if you dont use the cap room you wont be able to carry it over since the CBA could run out. So if you were saving cap room for a rainy day, 2020 free agency may be that rainy day

Players union would never allow that to happen

when we cut the dead weight. Ogletree, Ellison, Bethea and Martin. Likely a paycut for Solder in the works as well.

So I would think the pay cut would be close to that amount or more.

He played really poorly last year to the point of wondering if he's cooked altogether.

In comment 14787506 robbieballs2003 said:

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In comment 14787502 Chocco said: Quote: In comment 14787458 Defenderdawg said: Quote: Jason_OTC (@Jason_OTC) 1/20/20, 6:40 PM One other thing on the rules for next year. I’d think there is a chance that if you dont use the cap room you wont be able to carry it over since the CBA could run out. So if you were saving cap room for a rainy day, 2020 free agency may be that rainy day This could mean some BIG contracts It could mean the opposite. Giving out big long term contracts when the space doesn't carry over could be dangerous. I can see bigger 1 year contracts but not necessarily more longer term contracts.

True, but if you have extra space this year you can front load the contract with guaranteed money to limit the signing bonus and decrease the cap strain on the back end

But high paid players on the D should be worried.

I am hoping a major push to get Ngakoue will happen. He is super young and worth a 6 year deal. Lock him up long term.

Connor McGovern would be my next target. We need a viable Center.

One other target if he shakes loose is Justin Simmons FS from Denver.

Draft Isaiah Simmons and that is a nice looking defense.

As I recall, the Giants have language in Tate's deal that a suspension allows them to void guaranteed money. If they void the guarantees, then it should follow that the cap hit is reduced, right?

In comment 14787607 RobCarpenter said:

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But high paid players on the D should be worried.

What high paid players on d? At this point it's just ogletree.

In comment 14787458 Defenderdawg said:

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Jason_OTC (@Jason_OTC) 1/20/20, 6:40 PM One other thing on the rules for next year. I’d think there is a chance that if you dont use the cap room you wont be able to carry it over since the CBA could run out. So if you were saving cap room for a rainy day, 2020 free agency may be that rainy day

I notice in the pull down menu that post June 1 cuts are not an option in OTC. I wonder if this is due to no CBA contract.

Six years in a row league has raised the cap by $10-12 million. Throw in the removal of Eli salary at long last.
Giants and everyone else have tons of cap space.

How they use the cap space is what counts.

in roster cuts will mostly be offset by the ridiculous contract likely coming LW's way.

And looking further down the road, the Barkley situation looms rather large. He's going to be looking for $16-17M/yr. Maybe more.

Whatever we do, I hope it's less money spent at the opening of free agency; and waiting patiently, instead, for the second wave when real bargains materialize...

Dallas makes all their contracts to be restructured. Last years deals with Lawrence, Smith, and Collins have that flexibility. They could also restructure Martin and Frederick.

Dallas will release Tyrone Crawford and add 8 million to the cap with only one million in dead money, that's a guarantee.

With all this flexibility Dallas can add an easy 20 million to the cap. I've even read as much as 30 million or more.

This will give Dallas the ability to sign Prescott, Cooper, Jones, and other core players. Dallas will lose some depth though as some players will not be resigned as the roster gets turned over with the new coaching staff.

Dallas needs to hit on the after market free agents that they like to target. Dallas must also continue to draft well. This will be more difficult this year with a different coaching staff and different criterias. Lastly they must continue to hit on undrafted free agents which has been very good to them.

We are not the only team that will cut players to increase cap space, right?

As coach Judge says, don't tell me what they can't do, tell me what they can do. We have so many holes on this team we can't keep cutting everyone and starting over. Ogletree is not the worst LB out there, we can restructure and or trade him. What NE does so well is create packages for players to succeed. Put them in a position where they excell, rework salary if possible and make them useful.

Before we flat out cut solder see if we can use him on the other side. You cut players you get dead money and anyone you sign costs money.

Let coach evaluate what we have. See if he can use some of these guys in whatever system makes them successful before we flat out cut someone who wasn't getting it done in the last system. We have plenty of money to play in FA and we can cut players as needed. No need to do that now unless the coach doesn't want them in any capacity. You need to go into the draft with a complete team so you don't reach.

would you make Solder a "message cut" with having no knowledge whatsoever on how he may be looked at by Judge?

Or just no knowledge whatsoever, period.

In comment 14787768 FatMan in Charlotte said:

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would you make Solder a "message cut" with having no knowledge whatsoever on how he may be looked at by Judge? Or just no knowledge whatsoever, period.

Thank you, Fat Man! The man has a very sick kid and I expect he played most of the year hurt because there was literally NO ONE ELSE to play LT. A great "message" to send. Yes, we should be looking to upgrade LT, but not to cut him.

but there's more to consider with him, and his family, which is more likely the NYG path forward, imo.

In comment 14787824 JonC said:

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but there's more to consider with him, and his family, which is more likely the NYG path forward, imo.

Not to mention they don't even have a right tackle at the moment either.

and the cap hit is smarter next year.

In comment 14787486 BigBluesman said:

Quote:

In comment 14787473 90.Cal said: Quote: In comment 14787470 BobsYourUncle said: Quote: In comment 14787467 90.Cal said: Quote: Ogletree + Martin + Ellison + Bethea ? Keep going on that list!!!! ;) I think that puts us at around 80 mil... add Solder and put it toward 90 or keep him another year to mentor the rookie tackle we draft.. 80/90 mil... at that point who cares keep him and go to town on the defense! Solder should be a message cut.

A message cut? The guy played every game this season or maybe he missed one and his kid has cancer.

Giants have been sending messages since 2012. It hasn’t worked. Just do what’s best for the franchise and team. Make football decisions.

In comment 14787489 TommyWiseau said:

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For that Dalls cap hell that everyones been talking about for the last 10 years that never actually happened

They get burned a little every now n then. They had to let demarcus ware walk when he was still a viable player, but more often than not they keep who they want and sign who they want. The cap is real, but it’s overstated here. The giants entire roster was highly paid from 05-2012 and things were just fine. The big bad contracts we gave out in 2016– vernon, snacks and Jenkins were all she’d rather easily. This won’t stop people from losing their shit when the giants “overpay” a fa this spring.

The contract only really hurts if the player never ever plays. And then it doesn’t even matter whether the guy is overpaid by 1-2 million Or 10. Dead weight is dead weight.

In short, sign good fucking players. Worry about the bank of Mara later.

In comment 14787658 rich in DC said:

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As I recall, the Giants have language in Tate's deal that a suspension allows them to void guaranteed money. If they void the guarantees, then it should follow that the cap hit is reduced, right?

Tate's Cap is $10.350m
Dead Money if cut is $7.060m
Cap Saving $3.3m

It doesnt make much sense to cut him. He's decent & reliable. It would be a small cap savings but leaves an additional need on the team specially with Shepard's concussion history.

No one wants to hear it, but if you don’t think jones is buying his way out of cap space issues you have your head in the sand. It’s obvious he does this by kicking the Can down road. It bites them eventually, to some extent, but he buys more time than most do.

In comment 14788346 djm said:

Quote:

In comment 14787486 BigBluesman said: Quote: In comment 14787473 90.Cal said: Quote: In comment 14787470 BobsYourUncle said: Quote: In comment 14787467 90.Cal said: Quote: Ogletree + Martin + Ellison + Bethea ? Keep going on that list!!!! ;) I think that puts us at around 80 mil... add Solder and put it toward 90 or keep him another year to mentor the rookie tackle we draft.. 80/90 mil... at that point who cares keep him and go to town on the defense! Solder should be a message cut. A message cut? The guy played every game this season or maybe he missed one and his kid has cancer. Giants have been sending messages since 2012. It hasn’t worked. Just do what’s best for the franchise and team. Make football decisions.

Solder most likely gets 1 more year hoping he'd rebound. Cutting him is a $13m dead money hit ($6.5m cap savings). If he doesnt improve, you take the hit in 2020 & cut him in 2021... dead money $6.5m, cap savings $14m.

Besides his son's illness is would take a huge toll on anybody, I think he was playing hurt all year.

In comment 14788380 djm said:

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No one wants to hear it, but if you don’t think jones is buying his way out of cap space issues you have your head in the sand. It’s obvious he does this by kicking the Can down road. It bites them eventually, to some extent, but he buys more time than most do.

Heard Chris Simms talking about coaches' contracts, saying a lot of them are "not reported accurately", where the number reported is lower than the actual, and the remainder is settled outside through "corporate accounts". And since there us no cap on coaches contracts, the league doesnt care, and has no reason to even investigate.

I wonder if owners go around the cap (for players) the same way.

If it is true, Jerry Jones and Kraft will probably be 2 guys that would do something like that.