It appears the consensus around here want him to be the Giants top target heading into free agency. However, I read a number of scouting reports on him this past weekend and the majority have him rated as a top tier pass rusher, but a below average run defender. I even saw one report compare him to Javon Kearse.
I'm not sure I want the Giants to throw 20+ million per year at a guy who sounds like he's one dimensional. Plus, he's only had double digit sacks once in his four year career.
I'd rather see the Giants re-sign Markus Golden and go after a guy like Kyle Van Noy. Those two combined will probably cost the same amount as Ngakoue would, plus they can help with the run defense.
We all know the Giants need to add more than just one LB this off-season. Having a LB corp of Golden, Van Noy, Ryan Connelly, Isaiah Simmons, Lorenzo Carter and Ximines would be an upgrade from 2019. Sprinkle in veteran FA cornerback like Byron Jones or Logan Ryan to go along with our young guys, re-sign Leonard Williams, and the Giants could actually have an adequate defense once again.
I expect we're going to be draft heavy on defense, not so sure about spending $20M per on Edge, not to mention open market dollars if they don't get an early deal with LW.
Markus Golden
Shaq Lawson
Carl Nassib
Dante Fowler Jr. ? will he be a discount??
Continue to build in the draft.
I’m assuming you are not referencing Yannick Ngakoue who will be 25 at the end of March?
I think it's because Jacksonville is currently in cap hell at the moment, but doesn't mean that couldn't change with cuts and salary reconstructions.
And year over year, other teams make good free agency decisions by spending money, and take a chance on draft picks that we didn't think were worth it at that spot.
And we have absolutely sucked the past 3 seasons. Time to do something with the cap we have. Obviously we can't spend like idiots. But why are we trying to convince ourselves that Yannick isn't worth it? If he's not worth spending big dollars on...who is? He's a (knock on wood) injury free up and coming sack/TFL machine. Is he good against the run? No...maybe he's just OK in that department. I'd rather have this guy on third down than ANYONE ELSE on our current roster. We haven't been able to sniff the quarterback until we signed Golden.
We can't rely on finding gems and signing guys to 1 year deals in hoping that we strike gold.
It will be intriguing to see how the Giants go about their business in the next couple months. Big question is how much say Judge will have in the roster construction, and if what Gettleman preached recently about how it will be a collaborative approach between him and the HC is in fact true or not.
Yep, as fun as the win was it was damaging to the first round pick. @BB56, was referring to the Van Noy, Jones, Ryan part. Must resist the temptation of handing players pushing 30 too many years.
Ngakoue is going to be 25 next season, I would rather pay a young player than an aging vet. Unfortunately in FA to get a good player you always overpay but usually by the time that player gets to the 3rd year of the contract it is a fair contract because salaries go up every year. So in my opinion the gamble is worth it for Ngakoue. I would say he is a better prospect than OV was when we signed him.
If it makes you feel better, I said much the same in 2016 and didn't think they'd spend a ton, and they did.
With the OL, perhaps some mid tier signings if Conklin is going to break the bank...and then lean on the draft for good value in any round.
We will have close to 90M in cap space. Let's identify 2-3 big time targets and make our pitch. If we can land 1-2 of those, great.
Quote:
win against the Redskins late in the season screwed us.
Yep, as fun as the win was it was damaging to the first round pick. @BB56, was referring to the Van Noy, Jones, Ryan part. Must resist the temptation of handing players pushing 30 too many years.
Absolutely agree. As a fan, I’m totally done with that age group for the so-called upper tiers. Lesser, less expensive 30ers, fine..
I hope you're right. Ngakoue will be much too expensive IMO. I also agree with Eric that he's unlikely to become a FA.
If it makes you feel better, I said much the same in 2016 and didn't think they'd spend a ton, and they did.
I totally agree with that. At the same time, we aren't going to do nothing with our 75-90M in cap space. We have to spend it and spend it wisely. If that means landing 1 big splash (like Yannick) and then filling out with smart 2-3 year deals for up and coming undervalued players, then so be it. If that means signing 4-5 guys at good deals instead of the 15-20M range type ones...then I'm good with that.
We can't just not spend money because we think we are going to suck again. We will continue to suck if we don't try and land a nice free agent or two.
Every team in the league would wan Yannick on their roster...and yet here we are trying to argue we should stay away. That's all I'm saying. He seems like a relentless pass rusher with really good talent, and we have the cap space. Sign him.
What I don't want, is BBI saying lets be super conservative with our cap and not do anything crazy for 1 player...and then complaining on gameday when we don't get anywhere near the quarterback.
I believe it has been said he doesn't want to go back to Jax. Unless they tag him he should hit the market.
I know...its just frustrating that we are already seemingly scared of some big money guys
YOU PLAY TO WIN THE GAME. as a fan of course i wanted them to lose, but its an unrealistic expectation.
now onto the subject matter.
Yannick is a beast, his rush ability is the best in the FA class. That being said, i dont want him. I want judon who will be cheaper and is a better run defender. he is also a HIGH effort guy and will allow us to spend other money on other things.
if we cut bethea, ogletree, martin, and ellison we will have over 80 mill in cap space.
sooooo
sign
Judon
conklin
bradberry
resign
williams
Golden
1-simmons
2-biadasz/ruiz
then look for OT, S, WR in rounds 3-7
this is the path i would take.
1. Getting off the field on 3rd down, especially 3rd and Long. Yannick Ngakoue is a young, edge guy who is just entering his prime. If you were going to add an edge guy this is the one. The guy I like in the draft is K'Lavon Chaisson from LSU. He is considered a mid first round talent. Picking him at 4 right now seems a major stretch.
2. Stopping the TE. If we stay put at pick 4 and Isaiah Simmons is there you take him. He can cover anybody and he would smother the opposing TE.
The Giant Defense needs to be fixed just as badly as the O Line. It starts up front. We need a true number 1 pass rusher. Yannick Ngakoue is the best mainly because he is still very young and would be worth a long term investment. Versatile LB's are the next thing this defense has lacked for far too long.
Nobody is suggesting the Giants should have tanked or not tried their hardest, but that one win cost them a lot in terms of draft capital. That much is undeniable.
Nobody is suggesting the Giants should have tanked or not tried their hardest, but that one win cost them a lot in terms of draft capital. That much is undeniable.
The Miami win did the same damage. Chase Young was in our sights right up until that game. The win vs. Washington sealed our fate.
On to plan B. Buy a pass rusher.
Nobody is suggesting the Giants should have tanked or not tried their hardest, but that one win cost them a lot in terms of draft capital. That much is undeniable.
NO DOUBT it killed us, but the sarcasm of people who post who actually believe we should have lost on purpose.
the whole, "but dont worry, we got the meaningless late season win" crowd. they actually wanted us to tank. it doesnt happen...
derp
I'd be happy with a OT who makes the grade or Okudah at 4 assuming Chase Young is gone. Okudah sounds like a stud from the little reading I've done.
Also, SY'56 was cryptic in another thread about how the Redskins might be high on Simmons and not a lock to take Young. I think the probability that Young falls to us while still low, is higher then most people think. We need the QBs and Simmons to keep getting all the pre draft hype.
One player isn't going to turn this team around. No matter what happens we should be able to use this draft to build a better roster.
JonC - Yes, I can vouch you have been concerned about the use of free agency for some time and unfortunately you were right.
Not to mention TB's missed 30-yard field goal.
Quote:
do people think Yannick Ngakoue is going to hit the open market?
I think it's because Jacksonville is currently in cap hell at the moment, but doesn't mean that couldn't change with cuts and salary reconstructions.
Yep according to OverTheCap they are currently in the red with -$1.98M effective cap space. So their only option is to tag and trade him because they can’t pay him as of now.
We are going to get a really good player at 4 or be in position to move down anyway. And I'd rather have gotten that win with our rookie QB tossing 5 TDs than going into the offseason where the only thing we hear is how Jones ended the season on a personal 10 game losing streak. And please, then everyone would have wanted us to just draft Tua at 2 by ourselves because no one knows if Jones is the answer.
Hopefully, Connelly comes back healthy, but even if he does we need to pair him with a more productive partner than Ogletree or Mayo. Better play at ILB will allow Carter and Ximines to have a greater impact off the edge.
Love could be the answer at FS, but I'd still try and sign Anthony Harris or Justin Simmons. Peppers' injury is very worrisome to me.
This is 100% false lol
2016 spending worked for that season, but it didn't take long for all of the character issues to surface and ignite in 2017. That's the homework part, what makes these men tick and are they going to pay the price after they've been paid.
Hopefully, Connelly comes back healthy, but even if he does we need to pair him with a more productive partner than Ogletree or Mayo. Better play at ILB will allow Carter and Ximines to have a greater impact off the edge.
Love could be the answer at FS, but I'd still try and sign Anthony Harris or Justin Simmons. Peppers' injury is very worrisome to me.
I agree about the middle of the D. Schobert from Cleveland might be a solid addition next to Connelly. Williams should be re-signed. Justin Simmons is probably going to get re-signed by Denver, but he would be my dream FS.
Nkagoue is the best answer to a sorely needed pass rush.
Quote:
In comment 14788019 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
do people think Yannick Ngakoue is going to hit the open market?
I think it's because Jacksonville is currently in cap hell at the moment, but doesn't mean that couldn't change with cuts and salary reconstructions.
Yep according to OverTheCap they are currently in the red with -$1.98M effective cap space. So their only option is to tag and trade him because they can’t pay him as of now.
They need to clear the decks before tagging him. The cap space must be allocated for the FT as long as it is extended. He has already said that he won't sign it. So they will have to be content in allocating $17+M while the tag is extended even if he doesn't show up until Sept. 1st. Any Tag/Trade requires the Jags to have the space while the tag is extended and for Yannick to sign the tag first before any trade can happen.
Quote:
win against the Redskins late in the season screwed us.
Yep, as fun as the win was it was damaging to the first round pick. @BB56, was referring to the Van Noy, Jones, Ryan part. Must resist the temptation of handing players pushing 30 too many years.
Van Noy was a 2nd round bust in Detroit, gets to New England and becomes a Vrabel/Ninokovich type player. Jack of all trades player.
Never felt Logan Ryan was all that good though.
I’d be wear if signing anyone from New England who becomes a free agent. Very, very few of them produce like they did with Belicheck
I would love a veteran UFA OL that could play OC. Overspend there and protect Daniel Jones.
I think we draft Louisville OT M. Becton in round 1 but I'm not sure, as a rookie, he is polished enough to be a guaranteed day 1 LT starter.
We have to hope our young defense develops and we re-sign our own first.