Obviously just a rumor but this would be huge...
“ I'm told the Lions are VERY in play to select a quarterback because of Matt Stafford's health issues. Take that however you want. But that's what these streets are saying.”
https://twitter.com/omarkelly/status/1219752078450532352?s=21 - (
New Window )
If they implode again this year then probably a total regime change.
The question I think that they answer.... Is there a game changing player at 3 or do they trade down to fill multiple needs?
Can't see how Coach/GM can play the long game. They have to win this year.
Move on.
The Bengals take Burrow at #1. The Lions, who are putting messages out there that they should go QB because of Stafford's injury history and contract and can stash a QB for a year and start him in 2021 make it known that they are in play for Tua at #3. The Redskins, realizing they have a shitload of holes, trade down to #5 with the Dolphins and pick up one of their extra #1s and other picks as well. The Lions then take Herbert at 3. Leaving the Giants staring at Chase Young at #4 and all that handwringing late in the season to tank for Chase was for nothing and he falls into the Giants lap.
Matt, your gif is perfect, because for the draft to play out that way it truly would be a fantasy worthy of the Twilght Zone.
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In comment 14789279 Dnew15 said:
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In comment 14789273 Milton said:
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In comment 14789236 figgy2989 said:
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If you want to trade up to 3, it is going to cost you.
That's the Lions saying if you want Tua or Herbert, you're gonna have to trade up to the 2 spot.
Please let this be true.
This is the path to Young.
Again, there is a close to 0% chance Chase Young is drafted by the Giants. That ship sailed past the horizon the Sunday before Christmas.
You mean like Josh Allen not being available last year when the Giants picked?
I’ll say it again:
0% chance.
Doesn't make much sense, but sounds about right for the Lions
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In comment 14789236 figgy2989 said:
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If you want to trade up to 3, it is going to cost you.
That's the Lions saying if you want Tua or Herbert, you're gonna have to trade up to the 2 spot.
Picture if you will...
The Bengals take Burrow at #1. The Lions, who are putting messages out there that they should go QB because of Stafford's injury history and contract and can stash a QB for a year and start him in 2021 make it known that they are in play for Tua at #3. The Redskins, realizing they have a shitload of holes, trade down to #5 with the Dolphins and pick up one of their extra #1s and other picks as well. The Lions then take Herbert at 3. Leaving the Giants staring at Chase Young at #4 and all that handwringing late in the season to tank for Chase was for nothing and he falls into the Giants lap.
Don’t see them passing on Chase Young with Rivera as their coach.
Okay, but is he evil, too, like Leonard?
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Omar Kelly is the Fins version of Pat Leonard. He's constantly wrong.
Okay, but is he evil, too, like Leonard?
Absolutely everything should be taken with a grain of salt at this point. In the past week alone we've heard the Bengals would entertain trading #1, they are absolutely not trading #1, and they have no idea who they will take yet.
The Senior Bowl practices are ongoing. The Combine has yet to take place. No one can possibly know what will happen until that stuff is finished. This year will fluctuate in particular, as Tua probably won't work out at the Combine, but it sounds like he will throw afterwards.
Supposedly Herbert (and Jordan Love) were impressive at the Senior Bowl practices yesterday. I'd be surprised if a team is not looking to move up to get Herbert with his skill set. What they offer may not satisfy our GM, who will tell us other teams offered coffee and donuts for the pick, but hopefully he at least picks up the phone this time.
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In comment 14789307 Big Rick in FL said:
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Omar Kelly is the Fins version of Pat Leonard. He's constantly wrong.
Okay, but is he evil, too, like Leonard?
Absolutely everything should be taken with a grain of salt at this point. In the past week alone we've heard the Bengals would entertain trading #1, they are absolutely not trading #1, and they have no idea who they will take yet.
The Senior Bowl practices are ongoing. The Combine has yet to take place. No one can possibly know what will happen until that stuff is finished. This year will fluctuate in particular, as Tua probably won't work out at the Combine, but it sounds like he will throw afterwards.
Supposedly Herbert (and Jordan Love) were impressive at the Senior Bowl practices yesterday. I'd be surprised if a team is not looking to move up to get Herbert with his skill set. What they offer may not satisfy our GM, who will tell us other teams offered coffee and donuts for the pick, but hopefully he at least picks up the phone this time.
What kind of BS is that? “He’ll at least pick up the phone this time?” As if he doesn’t take every friggin’ call that comes in?
Bad in the sense that a team may heavily prefer one QB over the other and if the Lions take that QB, they may not be interested in trading up anymore.
Doesn't make much sense, but sounds about right for the Lions
That is my thinking too, makes no sense to me. If it was for Burrow i'd buy it, but not for Tua and I don't think they will like Herbert enough at 3.
Doesn't make much sense, but sounds about right for the Lions
I think Tua may be riskier right now than Stafford.
Before this injury, I think Stafford went something like 140+ consecutive games played. And he was having a very good year in 2019 before the back injury.
I think he's on track for a full recovery, so I don't see real urgency for a QB solution.
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The Lions are going to cut ties with Stafford because of injury concerns but are going to replace him in the draft with a guy (Tua) that has had 3 surgeries in the past year.
Doesn't make much sense, but sounds about right for the Lions
That is my thinking too, makes no sense to me. If it was for Burrow i'd buy it, but not for Tua and I don't think they will like Herbert enough at 3.
It's entirely plausible that Herbert moves into the top 5. I think bbi in general is dismissing the possibility far too quickly.
Lions are likely posturing, but it's worth noting that we all thought Jones wouldn't go in the top 10.
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If you want to trade up to 3, it is going to cost you.
That's the Lions saying if you want Tua or Herbert, you're gonna have to trade up to the 2 spot.
No. If you want Tua OR Herbert, the 3 spot would be high enough.
If you wanted ONLY Tua or ONLY Herbert, then you need to trade up to 2...
That's the certain logic.
He's a very bright kid, too. Won the Heisman for Academics - Campbell Award.
If someone thinks they can mold him into seeing the game better, than it's a great pick. But that's a good sized if...
Man, you are positively Machiavellian!
It's like a Shakespearean plot. Or maybe Balduccian.
They get Stafford back, which should buy them some wins next year (saving P's job), and they get their QB of the future.
If the presumption is that they feel they need a new QB long term, and there's one they like available, it's the right move. It's the thinking that brought DJ to the Giants this past year. Shurmur lost his job because he couldn't manage a team. He'd have survived if he could, despite the record. IF Patricia can manage a team, he'll get a few more wins with Stafford. If he can't, without going all in to win now, he deserves to be fired.
Detroit is in a really bad spot here because they need to win, but they also need to find their next QB. They might fuck both up.
Detroit is in a really bad spot here because they need to win, but they also need to find their next QB. They might fuck both up.
The idea is to start Stafford this year with their future QB in tow.
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In comment 14789279 Dnew15 said:
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In comment 14789273 Milton said:
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In comment 14789236 figgy2989 said:
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If you want to trade up to 3, it is going to cost you.
That's the Lions saying if you want Tua or Herbert, you're gonna have to trade up to the 2 spot.
Please let this be true.
This is the path to Young.
Again, there is a close to 0% chance Chase Young is drafted by the Giants. That ship sailed past the horizon the Sunday before Christmas.
You mean like Josh Allen not being available last year when the Giants picked?
More like Nick Bosa not being available when the Giants picked last year.
Was thinking the same thing.
Its possible, but its a huge risk.
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In comment 14789315 The_Boss said:
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In comment 14789279 Dnew15 said:
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In comment 14789273 Milton said:
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In comment 14789236 figgy2989 said:
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If you want to trade up to 3, it is going to cost you.
That's the Lions saying if you want Tua or Herbert, you're gonna have to trade up to the 2 spot.
Please let this be true.
This is the path to Young.
Again, there is a close to 0% chance Chase Young is drafted by the Giants. That ship sailed past the horizon the Sunday before Christmas.
You mean like Josh Allen not being available last year when the Giants picked?
More like Nick Bosa not being available when the Giants picked last year.
I get that. The point I was trying to make was about CERTAINTY. Most, if not all of this board, said, “no way Allen makes it to our pick.”
Its possible, but its a huge risk.
My point here is that if the QBs this year are as good as advertised, why not secure him rather than hope you’re in a great position to draft one. Too, what may be available in the next few years may not be anywhere near as good as the guys available now
Big Blue '56 : 1:23 pm : link : reply
for the next 5 years, so there’s time to move on from Stafford, no?
That's my thinking. If you need to win now, you want a vet.
If you don't think Stafford is the goods long term, or can't trust his health, you want to draft a replacement. The downside is that you don't get help elsewhere, but the whole thing is predicated on not being satisfied with Stafford, but are stuck with him this year. You've got to bite the bullet sooner or later, and if a QB is there, you've got to consider it.
Plus, Stafford is going to be expensive in '21 and '22
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and as I posted above you are going to pay $60-70m over 2 years for that privilege between cap hits/dead cap if cut. That basically negates the financial advantage of having a rookie QB on the roster.
Its possible, but its a huge risk.
My point here is that if the QBs this year are as good as advertised, why not secure him rather than hope you’re in a great position to draft one. Too, what may be available in the next few years may not be anywhere near as good as the guys available now
Even if they sit for a season or two. It’s not as if Stafford sucks, but his injury history becomes more problematic as he ages
Big Blue '56 : 1:23 pm : link : reply
for the next 5 years, so there’s time to move on from Stafford, no?
That's my thinking. If you need to win now, you want a vet.
If you don't think Stafford is the goods long term, or can't trust his health, you want to draft a replacement. The downside is that you don't get help elsewhere, but the whole thing is predicated on not being satisfied with Stafford, but are stuck with him this year. You've got to bite the bullet sooner or later, and if a QB is there, you've got to consider it.
Plus, Stafford is going to be expensive in '21 and '22
Plus, it’s not as if, were you to draft to improve your D, that your pick in round 1 is going to pan out
We just saw it here (although Stafford is way better than Eli in 2019) how paying an older QB and drafting his replacement in the top 10 (with a decent cap hit) limits financial flexibility.
I'd do this for Burrow. I wouldn't do it for the other guys.
He’s been hurt more than some think. He’s a warrior and played through stuff, including shoulder injuries iirc. His effectiveness some years was compromised down the stretch due to being hurt. Games you play is not often a tell-tale sign of health, imv
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It's also worth pointing out that prior to this past season he didn't miss a game in his previous 8 seasons ( though he played through a broken back in 2018). So it's not like he has a history of missing a lot of games, he has actually been very durable up to this year.
He’s been hurt more than some think. He’s a warrior and played through stuff, including shoulder injuries iirc. His effectiveness some years was compromised down the stretch due to being hurt. Games you play is not often a tell-tale sign of health, imv
I agree. He is a warrior. If he shouldn't have been playing that was more of an indictment on the Lions coaching staff/ management then Stafford himself. I think Stafford will continue to be a warrior. So if the injury concern is about his effectiveness I get it, but if it's about his durability I don't see it.
That $19m is still sunk though, and then you have to add the rookie cap hit on top of that. It’s doable but I’m guessing it’s not something they will be eager to do. And if it’s for Tua you might be buying damaged goods on top of it. It’s a big risk is really all I’m saying.
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In comment 14789458 Klaatu said:
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In comment 14789307 Big Rick in FL said:
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Omar Kelly is the Fins version of Pat Leonard. He's constantly wrong.
Okay, but is he evil, too, like Leonard?
Absolutely everything should be taken with a grain of salt at this point. In the past week alone we've heard the Bengals would entertain trading #1, they are absolutely not trading #1, and they have no idea who they will take yet.
The Senior Bowl practices are ongoing. The Combine has yet to take place. No one can possibly know what will happen until that stuff is finished. This year will fluctuate in particular, as Tua probably won't work out at the Combine, but it sounds like he will throw afterwards.
Supposedly Herbert (and Jordan Love) were impressive at the Senior Bowl practices yesterday. I'd be surprised if a team is not looking to move up to get Herbert with his skill set. What they offer may not satisfy our GM, who will tell us other teams offered coffee and donuts for the pick, but hopefully he at least picks up the phone this time.
What kind of BS is that? “He’ll at least pick up the phone this time?” As if he doesn’t take every friggin’ call that comes in?
Can you blame people for thinking that when our clown show GM says that himself he wasn't picking up the phone? Even if he was facetious, he's not a friggin standup act, say what you mean, mean what you say.
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In comment 14789478 Giants38 said:
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In comment 14789458 Klaatu said:
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In comment 14789307 Big Rick in FL said:
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Omar Kelly is the Fins version of Pat Leonard. He's constantly wrong.
Okay, but is he evil, too, like Leonard?
Absolutely everything should be taken with a grain of salt at this point. In the past week alone we've heard the Bengals would entertain trading #1, they are absolutely not trading #1, and they have no idea who they will take yet.
The Senior Bowl practices are ongoing. The Combine has yet to take place. No one can possibly know what will happen until that stuff is finished. This year will fluctuate in particular, as Tua probably won't work out at the Combine, but it sounds like he will throw afterwards.
Supposedly Herbert (and Jordan Love) were impressive at the Senior Bowl practices yesterday. I'd be surprised if a team is not looking to move up to get Herbert with his skill set. What they offer may not satisfy our GM, who will tell us other teams offered coffee and donuts for the pick, but hopefully he at least picks up the phone this time.
What kind of BS is that? “He’ll at least pick up the phone this time?” As if he doesn’t take every friggin’ call that comes in?
Can you blame people for thinking that when our clown show GM says that himself he wasn't picking up the phone? Even if he was facetious, he's not a friggin standup act, say what you mean, mean what you say.
Not too many GMs say what they mean and mean what they say. His job is to explore every option available, regardless of what he tells us or the media.
It's a sunk cost and is there regardless. It doesn't go away if you keep a QB you don't want.
The net savings, or loss, to cap is the critical number.
you lose 10.7 in cap space by cutting him this year. Gain 14 mil by cutting him next year.
This year, they are pretty much stuck with him. Next year, it is easily doable to cut him if that's the direction you want to go.
The evaluation is whether he's a QB you want mid-long term and/or whether there's a QB in the draft you'd rather have at the cost of losing a quality player elsewhere.
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In comment 14789488 Big Blue '56 said:
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In comment 14789478 Giants38 said:
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In comment 14789458 Klaatu said:
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In comment 14789307 Big Rick in FL said:
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Omar Kelly is the Fins version of Pat Leonard. He's constantly wrong.
Okay, but is he evil, too, like Leonard?
Absolutely everything should be taken with a grain of salt at this point. In the past week alone we've heard the Bengals would entertain trading #1, they are absolutely not trading #1, and they have no idea who they will take yet.
The Senior Bowl practices are ongoing. The Combine has yet to take place. No one can possibly know what will happen until that stuff is finished. This year will fluctuate in particular, as Tua probably won't work out at the Combine, but it sounds like he will throw afterwards.
Supposedly Herbert (and Jordan Love) were impressive at the Senior Bowl practices yesterday. I'd be surprised if a team is not looking to move up to get Herbert with his skill set. What they offer may not satisfy our GM, who will tell us other teams offered coffee and donuts for the pick, but hopefully he at least picks up the phone this time.
What kind of BS is that? “He’ll at least pick up the phone this time?” As if he doesn’t take every friggin’ call that comes in?
Can you blame people for thinking that when our clown show GM says that himself he wasn't picking up the phone? Even if he was facetious, he's not a friggin standup act, say what you mean, mean what you say.
Not too many GMs say what they mean and mean what they say. His job is to explore every option available, regardless of what he tells us or the media.
Then he's not doing his job.
Other teams have corroborated DG's statement that he wasn't picking up the phone, and it's well known that the league had to make him wait before sending in his pick because they wanted some space to let the Mayfield pick have its moment.
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In comment 14789728 BestFeature said:
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In comment 14789488 Big Blue '56 said:
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In comment 14789478 Giants38 said:
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In comment 14789458 Klaatu said:
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In comment 14789307 Big Rick in FL said:
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Omar Kelly is the Fins version of Pat Leonard. He's constantly wrong.
Okay, but is he evil, too, like Leonard?
Absolutely everything should be taken with a grain of salt at this point. In the past week alone we've heard the Bengals would entertain trading #1, they are absolutely not trading #1, and they have no idea who they will take yet.
The Senior Bowl practices are ongoing. The Combine has yet to take place. No one can possibly know what will happen until that stuff is finished. This year will fluctuate in particular, as Tua probably won't work out at the Combine, but it sounds like he will throw afterwards.
Supposedly Herbert (and Jordan Love) were impressive at the Senior Bowl practices yesterday. I'd be surprised if a team is not looking to move up to get Herbert with his skill set. What they offer may not satisfy our GM, who will tell us other teams offered coffee and donuts for the pick, but hopefully he at least picks up the phone this time.
What kind of BS is that? “He’ll at least pick up the phone this time?” As if he doesn’t take every friggin’ call that comes in?
Can you blame people for thinking that when our clown show GM says that himself he wasn't picking up the phone? Even if he was facetious, he's not a friggin standup act, say what you mean, mean what you say.
Not too many GMs say what they mean and mean what they say. His job is to explore every option available, regardless of what he tells us or the media.
Then he's not doing his job.
Other teams have corroborated DG's statement that he wasn't picking up the phone, and it's well known that the league had to make him wait before sending in his pick because they wanted some space to let the Mayfield pick have its moment.
I never read that re other teams. Any links?
The Lions aren't happy with the way Stafford handled his injury this season and some comments he made. Also, the injury is a pretty severe one that is likely to give problems going forward. A lot of back injuries are like that.
I can see a play for another QB, but there will be a short-term hit and I'm not sure Patricia wants to sign up for that.
I think he jumps at it if the team understands that there would be some growing pains that he wouldn't be held responsible for. It buys him time.