you hear about acquiring a solid to good player and all you fear is that we have given up too much. I dont mind Marte but i dont get this move at all. You currently have Conforto and Nimmo and then the third spot could be filled by Davis, Cespedes, McNeil if they decide to play lowrie everyday, etc.. Adding Marte just adds another name to that list and moves a guy like Davis or Nimmo to full time bench role. And what if Cespedes is healthy. I mean if we get Marte for a bag of balls then sure, but there is no way we arent giving up at least a couple prospects.
the farm system is less of a concern with Cohen coming in. The nickle and dime stuff is felt at the MLB level but is just as important when it comes to bringing-in and developing prospects. Free-spending organizations tend to always have prospects to spare because they invest more in scouting and development at the farm level.
and Nimmo are all good players but none are a true center fielder.This is what the Mets lack. Stop playing guys out of position. No way Cesdedes is playing CF, Conforto is a better corner OF as is Nimmo. With Lagares no longer on the team, the Mets have to think about CF as a need position.
bout trading prospects, whats the point of trading prospects for a marginal upgrade. I just dont get how Marte improves us. Make a trade for a reliever or another catcher or something, we dont need an OF. Again if we get him for nothing then fine, i mean we have limited OF depth so an injury or two and we are in trouble, but to give up a few assets for Marte makes no sense.
are a bit dicey, but it really doesnt seem like at this point that Marte is some sort of massive upgrade to Nimmo defensively. I wont kill them until i see what we are sending. I mean if its Dom and our 8th best prospect then great, but we know that wont be what it is. Itll be Dom, Lowrie and our 3rd best prospect cause PITT is going to take on Lowrie......
does one team need? Why would we give up assets to get another OF?
They don’t have a legit CF. And you can’t count on Cespedes. JD Davis should only be in the OF as a last result. This team needs to start taking taking defense seriously
in a perfect world I'd probably prefer him in CF to Nimmo, especially if Nimmo is shifting over to LF and Cespedes is disappearing.
But that seems like a lot moving parts (which will probably cost us prospects) for what likely doesn't represent all that much of an upgrade in either spot.
Thomas Nido and some random P like Kilome for Marte? Sure. Sign me up. Otherwise not sure there's much of a point.
If the Mets wanted to increase their chances of winning they should hire Buck or Dusty. It's amazing to me that a smart guy like BVW doesn't even see how that would likely be his best path to self preservation.
does one team need? Why would we give up assets to get another OF?
They don’t have a legit CF. And you can’t count on Cespedes. JD Davis should only be in the OF as a last result. This team needs to start taking taking defense seriously
Marte's defense is in decline. We're not even sure if Marte is a better defensive CF than Nimmo. Nimmo is also 5 years younger and under team cost-control for a while.
Why would we trade for an older player who might be worse in 2020 than the younger player we already have?
CF is not an urgent need -- they have a decent CF in Nimmo. When Brodie starts talking trade, everybody should be afraid, very afraid.
How 'bout 3B ?? They should be in on Arenado. Imaging how easy it would be to fix this team without the albatross that is the Cano contract. McNeil at 2B, Arenado at 3B, Conforto, Nimmo, and Ces/Davis in LF. Let's Go. Mets.
And guys like Cespedes and Lowrie offer nothing but upside on one year deals. What’s the point of dumping them when there’s a chance they might be healthy and produce? Nothing to lose by keeping them around. Everything to gain. If we save any money by dumping them we certainty aren’t re-investing it.
But it sure will be fun watching Cespedes bounce back and hit 30 bombs in Pittsburgh while Marte gives us that sweet wRC+ 110 and awful D in CF.
is involved? His workout tweet was interestingly timed and re-tweeted more than one would expect.
A frustrated Pirates front office might say you’re in the right ballpark at least.
To me this means the Mets were involved in the leak, either to strengthen their bargaining power (hey we don’t need your guy so lower your ask) or to pump up his value if they are genuinely trying to include him in the deal.
I think IF he had a bad year last year and could go back to his card numbers he is a solid offense/defensive upgrade but that is an IF, like most things Mets.
Dom Smith should be one piece going. The question is who else? I think the Mets would love to get rid of Cespedes. With his new salary it is a money saving move for the Pirates but not that much considering his injury history. Is Dom Smith enough to take on Cespedes?
I wouldn't trade Nimmo. He hustles and started to come around towards the end of the season. And if he can play CF, he can also play the corners. Unfortunately Conforto hasn't become the lock I thought he would and Nimmo could slide in in the event of slump or injury. He could also play right.
What I don't want though is a trade of Davis, Smith and Cespedes for Marte. He isn't that good unless something else (pen help?) is coming back.
Is it relevant that Davis was on the 2017-18 Astros? Â
Uncle Fred might want to ship him out because he lacks "integrity" like Carlos Beltran.
Not at all. He was a young guy who had no control over the org he was in and did very little at the MLB level. Zero impact.
I believe the post above is implying this is gaining traction because the pirates FO is getting desperate, which makes sense given that even Ozuna as a FA only got a 1 year deal. I doubt they are desperate enough to just take Cespedes but perhaps they'd swap him with a prospect or two.
of thought around Davis is that his value is at its peak. Maybe he had a break-out and will be a consistent solid hitter from now on but it's also a smart bet that he goes back to being a JAG and not much to give up long-term.
for Marte straight up, how would you all feel about that?
Doubt the Pirates would do this, but I'd feel OK about it. Cespedes has much bigger upside and is now on a reasonable one year deal, but Marte has a higher floor and has a team option for next year.
I'd like an OF of Nimmo, Marte and Conforto. It would be at least average defensively and we could move McNeil back to the IF.
Pirates likely want us to add. Maybe Cespedes + Smith or Davis for Marte and a C?
I'm sure if this goes down it'll end up being a horrible trade. I can;t wait until this used car salesman is fired.
They improved by 9 wins in Brodie's 1st season as a GM but sure, used car salesman
Well they also added the production of 53 homeruns and 4.8 WAR at the 1st base position in Brodie's 1st season. A player he had nothing to do with and almost put in the minor leagues to start the season.
despise including Nimmo or Alvarez for Marte. Note the lack of interest in Marte league wide. View is he's in decline. Nimmo very easily outperforms him this year and almost assuredly does over the next 3-4.
for Marte straight up, how would you all feel about that?
Doubt the Pirates would do this, but I'd feel OK about it. Cespedes has much bigger upside and is now on a reasonable one year deal, but Marte has a higher floor and has a team option for next year.
I'd like an OF of Nimmo, Marte and Conforto. It would be at least average defensively and we could move McNeil back to the IF.
Pirates likely want us to add. Maybe Cespedes + Smith or Davis for Marte and a C?
0% chance that happens. If Cespedes is on the opening day roster he's guaranteed the same salary as Marte and if he's not the entire "trade" is 5 million dollars saved for the Pirates.
Including Alvarez for Marte would be a fireable offense Â
have some really nice young talent on the way. Oneil Cruz... a 6'7 SS, Keller looks like a potential TOR, Swaggerty. I'm not huge on Bell but he did have a big time season.
Marte just isn't much of an upgrade over existing options... Â
falls off BA's top 100 prospects. Mets top 2 come in at 66 and 67. #66 Ronny Mauricio, SS
#67 Francisco Alvarez, C
Intriguing talent at the lower levels but very, very little "coming soon" help
-Phillies sign Liriano, solid add.
Jon Heyman
@JonHeyman
·
1h
Mets seem to be looking only in-house for manager, with Luis Rojas the apparent favorite. Hensley Meulens and Tony DeFrancesco also under consideration.
'Mets seem to be looking only in-house for manager' Â
This makes sense given the late date. The guys on staff have been in the process with Beltran and have all worked together on it. Bringing in someone out of the cold now is like hitting the reset back to step one.
Please no!!!!
Metrics show that Marte is no longer a very good defensive center fielder
Nimo is a better defensive centerfielder than Marte
I think that Nimo given the opportunity will be a very productive CF
If the Mets want to do something to improve the team
Pursue trading their minor league assets along with Cano to rid themselves of his contract
despise including Nimmo or Alvarez for Marte. Note the lack of interest in Marte league wide. View is he's in decline. Nimmo very easily outperforms him this year and almost assuredly does over the next 3-4.
I seriously doubt the Mets would give up either for Marte. It makes absolutely no sense to trade Nimmo for Marte. As a Braves fan I would love to see them make that trade because I feel it would make them worse.
I think the Mets are just doing their due diligence. There were rumors last week that Atlanta looked into Marte. Obviously they are no longer interested after the Ozuna signing. Perhaps the Mets showed interest just to drive up the asking price.
the first thing he should do is fire Brodie. Hes a terrible GM
Yep. We blew that hire by not giving Bloom control. Hopefully Cohen installs a forward-thinking young GM and really creates some prudent organizational stability.
the first thing he should do is fire Brodie. Hes a terrible GM
Yep. We blew that hire by not giving Bloom control. Hopefully Cohen installs a forward-thinking young GM and really creates some prudent organizational stability.
Bloom wanted to blow it apart, guarantee Mets trade Degrom Wheeler in 18.
Also BVV is spending money, isn't that what everyone has been bitching about the last fucking 5 years.
I dont want Marte either but I thin BVV has done a good job. Nobody saw the Diaz/Cano trade being this bad year 1
Last year OD payroll = $158m
Payroll as of right now = $159m
When people argued for the team to spend more I don't think anyone believes that's in the control of the GM. Any GM would prefer to spend more vs. less. I think most people's main complaint is the dishonesty and evasiveness about their "budget" when their spending is not in line with what they are charging their fans.
Also I recall very few people liking the Cano trade.
Yea I was sick to my stomach when they traded for cano and Diaz Â
And the feeling hasn’t stopped. That is likely documented in multiple threads and i know I sure wasn’t alone.
I recall being shocked that BVW was insane enough to take on 5 years for a player age 36. Taking on $100m was insanity and even found the net amount less Bruce/Swarzak shocking ($60m).
Literally days before trading for Cano, Josh Donaldson got a 1 year deal. At a position of even greater need.
So forgetting the prospects, the amount of money taken on of Cano's was unfathomable to me. When it was reported we were getting Diaz to take on Cano and being sent $50m I kind of understood. When the real terms came out I was floored.
it had a very Kazmir/Mo Vaughn/Roberto Alomar feel to it right away. You just knew Cano would turn into a pumpkin and it was only a matter of time before we were praying for him to test positive for PEDs again.
Who everyone says "you have to watch him everyday to truly appreciate how good he is"
Cano is the opposite. Watching him everyday just makes me dislike him more and more as a player. Liability in the field, lazy, slow bat, and when he does try to hustle once in a blue moon he hurts himself. He's 37 going on 50 physically.
Only reason BVW brought him to NY is because it's his client. Shocking that the Mets didn't understand this conflict of interest and shoot it down. Hopefully Cohen doesn't stand for that BS.
more money by locking up 37 year old Cano for 4 more years at $22M+ and letting guys like Wheeler walk to Philly
And seeing how Kelenic is one of the top prospects in baseball who plays the position that they are looking to trade for makes this whole situation even more frustrating.
Moze - there was another reason the Wilpons like him Â
he was a "big name" they could add that was subsidized in the future. They love adding future debt without any immediate payroll increase. Seattle was so desperate to get rid of Cano they were willing to take on present day $ (Bruce, Swarzak) that made Cano "cheaper" last year.
Why sign Bryce Harper or Manny Machado when Cano can get you the back pages for a couple days in December? And you can get him for no money down!
I just don't believe that to be anything more than wishful thinking from the Pirates.
I saw the Mets said something to the effect of "they are happy with their OF and not looking to make changes" - and that's the right answer.
This is just a guess based off Shecky's comment, but I think the Pirates market for Marte sucks so they keep dangling bullshit in the media bc they really want to dump him and save the money. The "advanced talks" a few days ago turned out to be BS and honestly I just think most of MLB probably sees Marte for what he is - a declining defensive CF'er who is a nice bat but nothing more, especially if he shifts to a corner.
Marcel Ozuna is 2 years younger and just got a 1 year deal as a FA. Marte's 2 years left look very affordable but then again so did Todd Frazier's when he got signed a few years ago, and Jed Lowrie's last year. Affordable today, waste of money tomorrow. Wasting the money is fine, wasting assets for Marte would be insanity.
I wouldn't trade Nimmo for Marte straight up.
They don’t have a legit CF. And you can’t count on Cespedes. JD Davis should only be in the OF as a last result. This team needs to start taking taking defense seriously
They improved by 9 wins in Brodie's 1st season as a GM but sure, used car salesman
A frustrated Pirates front office might say you’re in the right ballpark at least.
But that seems like a lot moving parts (which will probably cost us prospects) for what likely doesn't represent all that much of an upgrade in either spot.
Thomas Nido and some random P like Kilome for Marte? Sure. Sign me up. Otherwise not sure there's much of a point.
If the Mets wanted to increase their chances of winning they should hire Buck or Dusty. It's amazing to me that a smart guy like BVW doesn't even see how that would likely be his best path to self preservation.
Quote:
does one team need? Why would we give up assets to get another OF?
They don’t have a legit CF. And you can’t count on Cespedes. JD Davis should only be in the OF as a last result. This team needs to start taking taking defense seriously
Marte's defense is in decline. We're not even sure if Marte is a better defensive CF than Nimmo. Nimmo is also 5 years younger and under team cost-control for a while.
Why would we trade for an older player who might be worse in 2020 than the younger player we already have?
How 'bout 3B ?? They should be in on Arenado. Imaging how easy it would be to fix this team without the albatross that is the Cano contract. McNeil at 2B, Arenado at 3B, Conforto, Nimmo, and Ces/Davis in LF. Let's Go. Mets.
Quote:
is involved? His workout tweet was interestingly timed and re-tweeted more than one would expect.
A frustrated Pirates front office might say you’re in the right ballpark at least.
But it sure will be fun watching Cespedes bounce back and hit 30 bombs in Pittsburgh while Marte gives us that sweet wRC+ 110 and awful D in CF.
Fun times.
Quote:
I'm sure if this goes down it'll end up being a horrible trade. I can;t wait until this used car salesman is fired.
They improved by 9 wins in Brodie's 1st season as a GM but sure, used car salesman
Most of which had nothing to do with actual BVW moves. He actually probably made them worse with Cano/Diazso yes car used salesman.
Quote:
is involved? His workout tweet was interestingly timed and re-tweeted more than one would expect.
A frustrated Pirates front office might say you’re in the right ballpark at least.
To me this means the Mets were involved in the leak, either to strengthen their bargaining power (hey we don’t need your guy so lower your ask) or to pump up his value if they are genuinely trying to include him in the deal.
Dom Smith should be one piece going. The question is who else? I think the Mets would love to get rid of Cespedes. With his new salary it is a money saving move for the Pirates but not that much considering his injury history. Is Dom Smith enough to take on Cespedes?
I wouldn't trade Nimmo. He hustles and started to come around towards the end of the season. And if he can play CF, he can also play the corners. Unfortunately Conforto hasn't become the lock I thought he would and Nimmo could slide in in the event of slump or injury. He could also play right.
What I don't want though is a trade of Davis, Smith and Cespedes for Marte. He isn't that good unless something else (pen help?) is coming back.
Not at all. He was a young guy who had no control over the org he was in and did very little at the MLB level. Zero impact.
I believe the post above is implying this is gaining traction because the pirates FO is getting desperate, which makes sense given that even Ozuna as a FA only got a 1 year deal. I doubt they are desperate enough to just take Cespedes but perhaps they'd swap him with a prospect or two.
Doubt the Pirates would do this, but I'd feel OK about it. Cespedes has much bigger upside and is now on a reasonable one year deal, but Marte has a higher floor and has a team option for next year.
I'd like an OF of Nimmo, Marte and Conforto. It would be at least average defensively and we could move McNeil back to the IF.
Pirates likely want us to add. Maybe Cespedes + Smith or Davis for Marte and a C?
Quote:
I'm sure if this goes down it'll end up being a horrible trade. I can;t wait until this used car salesman is fired.
They improved by 9 wins in Brodie's 1st season as a GM but sure, used car salesman
Well they also added the production of 53 homeruns and 4.8 WAR at the 1st base position in Brodie's 1st season. A player he had nothing to do with and almost put in the minor leagues to start the season.
Doubt the Pirates would do this, but I'd feel OK about it. Cespedes has much bigger upside and is now on a reasonable one year deal, but Marte has a higher floor and has a team option for next year.
I'd like an OF of Nimmo, Marte and Conforto. It would be at least average defensively and we could move McNeil back to the IF.
Pirates likely want us to add. Maybe Cespedes + Smith or Davis for Marte and a C?
0% chance that happens. If Cespedes is on the opening day roster he's guaranteed the same salary as Marte and if he's not the entire "trade" is 5 million dollars saved for the Pirates.
#67 Francisco Alvarez, C
Intriguing talent at the lower levels but very, very little "coming soon" help
-Phillies sign Liriano, solid add.
Jon Heyman
@JonHeyman
·
1h
Mets seem to be looking only in-house for manager, with Luis Rojas the apparent favorite. Hensley Meulens and Tony DeFrancesco also under consideration.
Metrics show that Marte is no longer a very good defensive center fielder
Nimo is a better defensive centerfielder than Marte
I think that Nimo given the opportunity will be a very productive CF
If the Mets want to do something to improve the team
Pursue trading their minor league assets along with Cano to rid themselves of his contract
I seriously doubt the Mets would give up either for Marte. It makes absolutely no sense to trade Nimmo for Marte. As a Braves fan I would love to see them make that trade because I feel it would make them worse.
I think the Mets are just doing their due diligence. There were rumors last week that Atlanta looked into Marte. Obviously they are no longer interested after the Ozuna signing. Perhaps the Mets showed interest just to drive up the asking price.
I wish we could get a TRO against Brodie and cannot wait for new ownership!
Yep. We blew that hire by not giving Bloom control. Hopefully Cohen installs a forward-thinking young GM and really creates some prudent organizational stability.
Quote:
the first thing he should do is fire Brodie. Hes a terrible GM
Yep. We blew that hire by not giving Bloom control. Hopefully Cohen installs a forward-thinking young GM and really creates some prudent organizational stability.
Bloom wanted to blow it apart, guarantee Mets trade Degrom Wheeler in 18.
Also BVV is spending money, isn't that what everyone has been bitching about the last fucking 5 years.
I dont want Marte either but I thin BVV has done a good job. Nobody saw the Diaz/Cano trade being this bad year 1
Payroll as of right now = $159m
When people argued for the team to spend more I don't think anyone believes that's in the control of the GM. Any GM would prefer to spend more vs. less. I think most people's main complaint is the dishonesty and evasiveness about their "budget" when their spending is not in line with what they are charging their fans.
Also I recall very few people liking the Cano trade.
I recall being shocked that BVW was insane enough to take on 5 years for a player age 36. Taking on $100m was insanity and even found the net amount less Bruce/Swarzak shocking ($60m).
Literally days before trading for Cano, Josh Donaldson got a 1 year deal. At a position of even greater need.
So forgetting the prospects, the amount of money taken on of Cano's was unfathomable to me. When it was reported we were getting Diaz to take on Cano and being sent $50m I kind of understood. When the real terms came out I was floored.
Cano is the opposite. Watching him everyday just makes me dislike him more and more as a player. Liability in the field, lazy, slow bat, and when he does try to hustle once in a blue moon he hurts himself. He's 37 going on 50 physically.
Only reason BVW brought him to NY is because it's his client. Shocking that the Mets didn't understand this conflict of interest and shoot it down. Hopefully Cohen doesn't stand for that BS.
And seeing how Kelenic is one of the top prospects in baseball who plays the position that they are looking to trade for makes this whole situation even more frustrating.
Why sign Bryce Harper or Manny Machado when Cano can get you the back pages for a couple days in December? And you can get him for no money down!
1. What the fuck was his injury? Why the mystery?
2. Why in the world did he play in Sept? Typical Mets.
Not exactly. His exact quote was "Latest Pitt ask said to be steep. Not sure he's in the request but top SS prospect Ronny Mauricio interests Pitt."
I saw the Mets said something to the effect of "they are happy with their OF and not looking to make changes" - and that's the right answer.
This is just a guess based off Shecky's comment, but I think the Pirates market for Marte sucks so they keep dangling bullshit in the media bc they really want to dump him and save the money. The "advanced talks" a few days ago turned out to be BS and honestly I just think most of MLB probably sees Marte for what he is - a declining defensive CF'er who is a nice bat but nothing more, especially if he shifts to a corner.
Marcel Ozuna is 2 years younger and just got a 1 year deal as a FA. Marte's 2 years left look very affordable but then again so did Todd Frazier's when he got signed a few years ago, and Jed Lowrie's last year. Affordable today, waste of money tomorrow. Wasting the money is fine, wasting assets for Marte would be insanity.
Here's hoping that's true.