First ballot should be for ridiculously awesome players. Eli can wait a bit. Nothing wrong with that. If he gets in first that’s great I hope he does, but he probably won’t.
A lot depends on other first ballot candidates. It helps that Brady and Fitzgerald are playing another season. Not sure Kuechly is first ballot, given how short his career was. I'm gonna say he sneaks in on the first try.
If you asked me in 2012, it would have been a no brainer. After too many mediocre years, I’m concerned that he’s dropped too much. On the plus side, he’s done what few have done in history. It’s not just the 2 rings, it’s that he led the team on 2 great playoff runs winning many important games on the road and he made the big plays. Second, he’s a genuinely nice guy who has made no enemies in the press plus he’s got the pedigree. I think he gets in but it will not be easy by a long shot.
Tom Lavaro was on Chad Dukes radio show here in DC Â
Tonight shortly after the announcement. So Chad opened the debate to callers and Tom and him spoke after all the calls. Tom told Chad that Just so he knows, the consensus among sports writers is Eli is going in no doubt. But he didn’t say whether it was first ballot or not.
His confidence gave me the impression it will be first ballot.
overall statistical numbers are imposing, but there are a lot of people out there who simply don't like him.
I think he will be our next Harry Carson vis a vis the HOF.
I suspect that voters are going to get to see just how well-liked he really is around the league with this retirement. They got a taste of that with his benching. I think he will end up in Canton, maybe not in 5 years but nowhere near as long as they kept Harry out. He has the numbers and he has the pelts. Infuriating that the organization failed him in his latter years to where this is even a question. It should not have been.
But he'll get in. Even if you hate the guy it's difficult to keep a 2 time Super Bowl MVP who beat the sports greatest dynasty twice, won on the road in Green Bay twice, and won on the road in San Francisco and Dallas out of the hall fame. I mean the guy beat Brady twice and beat Favre on the road in 20 below zero weather. These are not some usual happenings that most QBs were doing.
overall statistical numbers are imposing, but there are a lot of people out there who simply don't like him.
I think he will be our next Harry Carson vis a vis the HOF.
I suspect that voters are going to get to see just how well-liked he really is around the league with this retirement. They got a taste of that with his benching. I think he will end up in Canton, maybe not in 5 years but nowhere near as long as they kept Harry out. He has the numbers and he has the pelts. Infuriating that the organization failed him in his latter years to where this is even a question. It should not have been.
Agree, I don’t see him first ballot, but don’t think he gets stuck as long as Carson.
Harry suffered from having his prime happen before the age of sport center and national media coverage, so I think a lot of voters kind of forgot about him for a while compared to other more recent candidates through the 80s and 90s
Eli will be debated, and won’t ever be considered on the level of Brady, Peyton, Brees and some others, but i think he’ll still be voted in within a couple years of becoming eligible
Rivers retiring this year will make for some interesting debates. I think it will make Eli look worse, because Eli has the post season success, but Rivers beats him in pretty much ever other passing category. I think the comparison would make voters think either both go in as first years, or neither does...and they will probably pick neither.
Eli would probably have a better shot if he wasn't being directly compared to Rivers.
... is Nick Foles also beating Brady that time. If the Patriots win that Superbowl Eli would be a slam dunk because he'd be the only one who ever stopped Brady and the Patriots.
I think he'll eventually get in but he won't be a first ballot. Probably won't even be a 2nd ballot if Brady retires after next season.
Yes. And that's a crime with overrated players like Namath in the Canton.
This Simms thing really bothers me. He deserves much better. The other one, while we're on it, is Sterling Sharpe. He career was cut short by injury, but go look at his numbers for his seven years as a WR. They are phenomenal.
It'll seem like a crime but it's not, Strahan didn't make it on the first go either. I don't think Eli will have to wait long, if it doesn't happen in the first year or two.
Unfortunately, many people dislike, discredit and belittle him. I think his candidacy would be strengthened if Ben, Rodgers and Brees fail to win another super bowl and if Brady puts 2-3 more years in after Eli's retirement.
Eli may have retired at the perfect time. Outside of Peyton, there aren't many/if any resumes as strong as Eli on the HOF horizon. Romo, Luck, Vick, Palmer potentially Rivers and Flacco?
Eli's case is much stronger and the competition could push him over the goal line. Will miss 10.
RE: I think he's earned a first ballot but won't get it Â
It'll seem like a crime but it's not, Strahan didn't make it on the first go either. I don't think Eli will have to wait long, if it doesn't happen in the first year or two.
This was brought up elsewhere, but by retiring now, he will first appear on the ballot when Big Ben, Rivers, and Brady are not. By that time, Peyton will be a couple years removed from induction already.
Keuchly will be on Eli's ballot, but that shouldn't prevent Eli from getting in. Fact is, Eli is a worthy first ballot HOFer. At the time he is up for induction, he will be 10th in yards and 10th in TDs (Rodgers, Big Ben, and Matt Ryan will pass him in those categories). In fact, he could even fall to 11th in yardage, as Stafford will easily accrue the 16,000 yards to catch Eli in those five years, if he keeps playing.
Nonetheless, it is impossible to ignore what Eli did in the POs. His numbers improved across the board. He threw 18 TDs to 9 INTs. He has as many postseason wins as Drew Brees (who is 8-8). More rings than Brees, Rodgers, Favre, Marino, etc.). He beat what is widely regarded as the best team ever in 2008 and doubled down 4 years later. Those two years, he led the Giants on literally the hardest paths to SB victories. 7 of his 8 postseason wins were when the Giants were underdogs in the games.
The stats support his induction. But the matter of fact is that you play to win titles. He led his team to two of them. He is 1 of 12 QBs ever to win multiple SBs and one of five to win multiple SB MVPs. It is nonsensical for voters to even think of keeping the guy out.
Peyton may be the better regular season QB, but I'd take Eli in the postseason over him any day of the week. In Peyton's lone SB run with the Colts, he threw 3 TDs and 7 INTs in 4 games. His draft compatriot - Rivers - has literally never beaten Brady. Ever.
Eli was screwed by bad OL's the last half of his career and that caused his numbers to be "less than" and brought losses. A crying shame Reese could draft or obtain OL's to help Eli.
Eli was screwed by bad OL's the last half of his career and that caused his numbers to be "less than" and brought losses. A crying shame Reese could draft or obtain OL's to help Eli.
Agreed. JR could not evaluate OL to save his life (or his job). Hence as the Accorsi OL deteriorated, JR could not rebuild it, and without an OL a team literally can’t go anywhere.
It’s crazy how he could draft OL in the 1st round and they wouldn’t even turn out to be average, they were just BAD. Somehow it’s like the higher up he drafted an O Lineman the worse the player turned out to be. I mean think about it: Richburg, Pugh, Flowers... each one a higher pick than the next and each one a worse player than the next.
Ereck Flowers truly set the franchise back a half a decade. He was impressively bad. Remember when we thought we just had to switch him to his “natural position” at RT? So funny how we convinced ourselves that a player who clearly sucks ass at playing football would somehow not suck ass just by putting him on a different side of the field. I remember starting Wheeler in that one game in 2018 and it actually was noticeably better... a 2nd year undrafted player was a breath of fresh air compared to our 4th year #9 overall pick. Insane.
Don’t get me wrong, I’ll always love Reese for the role he played in bringing 2 Lombardi trophies to this franchise. I honestly think he sometimes doesn’t get enough credit around here for the good things he did do. No GM is perfect, and I really do believe the combination of Accorsi’s talents and Reese’s talents were actually the perfect fit for building a team at that time and that’s why 2005-2012 was one of the greatest eras of this franchise.
It felt like Accorsi’s core guys held the fabric together with hard-nosed disciplined play and sound fundamentals, while Reese’s guys were flat out playmakers who just beat the other team with speed, strength, athleticism. (I realize that’s a very simplified way of putting it and not true in every instance for every player, I’m just speaking generally.)
But man, if only Reese could have just admitted that he literally knew nothing about evaluating OL and passed that responsibility to... literally anyone else... Eli might have had a much better 2nd half of his career and maybe even a 3rd ring.
is play the league social circles game. Contribute to league efforts, games, Sunday show announcing/pregame. So many others have used that to get in more quickly and in many cases faster than some of the older players. Realize you have a bunch of sports writers doing picks, which in my view is sort of lame that journalists are doing selection work? In many cases, folks that never played...Reminds me of hollywood awards shows.
First ballot should be for ridiculously awesome players. Eli can wait a bit. Nothing wrong with that. If he gets in first that’s great I hope he does, but he probably won’t.
like Warren Sapp. Still pisses me off that he was first ballot and Strahan wasn't. there is certainly a political element or an anti-NY bias.
But it seems like the media in general would always find ways to knock Eli.
It always seemed like there was a vendetta against him after the draft and him not wanting to play in San Diego.
Throughout it all, Eli handled everything like a professional. I am glad he got that last victory so he didn't have an under .500 record as a reason for voters to hold against him.
I really do hope he gets in on the first ballot and given some of the support he has received from media/fans over the last few years, I am crossing my fingers.
“I will vote for Eli Manning first ballot,” ESPN’s Sal Paolontonio said. “He was great when it counted the most. Manning has the top-flight passing numbers and the magnificent durability to cement his legacy of greatness. He has been a great ambassador for the game and team he represents. He is a Hall of Famer.”
Agreed. He was clutch when it counted in the biggest games, but even in his prime he was never talked about in the elite QB’s of the era. To mix sports, he is essentially the Bert Blyleven of the NFL. That being said, Joe Namath had a much worse résumé yet is in there.
My standard is "can you tell the story of the game without this player"?
You cant without Eli Manning. His highs were too important to ignore. He is too important to such a prominent franchise and his stats are there too in yards and TDs.
overall statistical numbers are imposing, but there are a lot of people out there who simply don't like him.
I think he will be our next Harry Carson vis a vis the HOF.
I don't think that it is they don't like him, many view him as streaky and inconsistent with too many dumb plays for a smart guy.
I also do not think he will be "Harry Carsoned". Harry was a victim of all those other great Giants LBs being on the same field at the same time and everyone's eyes were drawn to LT.
I think Eli's 2 SB's, 2 SB MVPs and his overall numbers will eventually get him in. Probably the 2nd or 3rd time. The big thing is to two SB last minute drives to beat Brady and Belichick. They cannot look past those two games.
If so, it would be a travesty for Eli to not. Namath entered the Hal mainly for beating the mighty Colts and establishing the AFL teams as worthy opponents.
Eli taking down the Pats twice certainly is equal or greater to Namath's sole win.
If so, it would be a travesty for Eli to not. Namath entered the Hal mainly for beating the mighty Colts and establishing the AFL teams as worthy opponents.
Eli taking down the Pats twice certainly is equal or greater to Namath's sole win.
Looks like Namath retired in '77 and got into the Hall in'85. So he had to wait a few years before he got in.
If so, it would be a travesty for Eli to not. Namath entered the Hal mainly for beating the mighty Colts and establishing the AFL teams as worthy opponents.
Eli taking down the Pats twice certainly is equal or greater to Namath's sole win.
Looks like Namath retired in '77 and got into the Hall in'85. So he had to wait a few years before he got in.
Thanks. I see eli as a fair comparison, so if he waits a couple of years, that should be OK. I do know the entrant list gets a lot tougher the years that follow though
If so, it would be a travesty for Eli to not. Namath entered the Hal mainly for beating the mighty Colts and establishing the AFL teams as worthy opponents.
Eli taking down the Pats twice certainly is equal or greater to Namath's sole win.
Namath took at least two extra years after he was first eligible.
His confidence gave me the impression it will be first ballot.
I think he will be our next Harry Carson vis a vis the HOF.
I think he will be our next Harry Carson vis a vis the HOF.
I suspect that voters are going to get to see just how well-liked he really is around the league with this retirement. They got a taste of that with his benching. I think he will end up in Canton, maybe not in 5 years but nowhere near as long as they kept Harry out. He has the numbers and he has the pelts. Infuriating that the organization failed him in his latter years to where this is even a question. It should not have been.
He'll get in. Eventually. But he'll get in.
Quote:
overall statistical numbers are imposing, but there are a lot of people out there who simply don't like him.
I think he will be our next Harry Carson vis a vis the HOF.
I suspect that voters are going to get to see just how well-liked he really is around the league with this retirement. They got a taste of that with his benching. I think he will end up in Canton, maybe not in 5 years but nowhere near as long as they kept Harry out. He has the numbers and he has the pelts. Infuriating that the organization failed him in his latter years to where this is even a question. It should not have been.
Agree, I don’t see him first ballot, but don’t think he gets stuck as long as Carson.
Harry suffered from having his prime happen before the age of sport center and national media coverage, so I think a lot of voters kind of forgot about him for a while compared to other more recent candidates through the 80s and 90s
Eli will be debated, and won’t ever be considered on the level of Brady, Peyton, Brees and some others, but i think he’ll still be voted in within a couple years of becoming eligible
Eli would probably have a better shot if he wasn't being directly compared to Rivers.
I think he'll eventually get in but he won't be a first ballot. Probably won't even be a 2nd ballot if Brady retires after next season.
Eli is nowhere near his brother's credentials. You just can't make that case, really.
So I think he'll need an extra few years...
Yes. And that's a crime with overrated players like Namath in the Canton.
This Simms thing really bothers me. He deserves much better. The other one, while we're on it, is Sterling Sharpe. He career was cut short by injury, but go look at his numbers for his seven years as a WR. They are phenomenal.
The list of 2-time+ SB MVP winners is pretty short:
Eli Manning (2)
Bart Starr (2)
Terry Bradshaw (2)
Joe Montana (3)
Tom Brady (4)
The other four guys were all *1st-ballot* HOFers too (I'm making the obvious assumption Brady will be 1st ballot).
Considering that list, it's pretty insane that there are actually people out there who don't think Eli should get in at all.
Unfortunately, many people dislike, discredit and belittle him. I think his candidacy would be strengthened if Ben, Rodgers and Brees fail to win another super bowl and if Brady puts 2-3 more years in after Eli's retirement.
Eli may have retired at the perfect time. Outside of Peyton, there aren't many/if any resumes as strong as Eli on the HOF horizon. Romo, Luck, Vick, Palmer potentially Rivers and Flacco?
Eli's case is much stronger and the competition could push him over the goal line. Will miss 10.
This was brought up elsewhere, but by retiring now, he will first appear on the ballot when Big Ben, Rivers, and Brady are not. By that time, Peyton will be a couple years removed from induction already.
Keuchly will be on Eli's ballot, but that shouldn't prevent Eli from getting in. Fact is, Eli is a worthy first ballot HOFer. At the time he is up for induction, he will be 10th in yards and 10th in TDs (Rodgers, Big Ben, and Matt Ryan will pass him in those categories). In fact, he could even fall to 11th in yardage, as Stafford will easily accrue the 16,000 yards to catch Eli in those five years, if he keeps playing.
Nonetheless, it is impossible to ignore what Eli did in the POs. His numbers improved across the board. He threw 18 TDs to 9 INTs. He has as many postseason wins as Drew Brees (who is 8-8). More rings than Brees, Rodgers, Favre, Marino, etc.). He beat what is widely regarded as the best team ever in 2008 and doubled down 4 years later. Those two years, he led the Giants on literally the hardest paths to SB victories. 7 of his 8 postseason wins were when the Giants were underdogs in the games.
The stats support his induction. But the matter of fact is that you play to win titles. He led his team to two of them. He is 1 of 12 QBs ever to win multiple SBs and one of five to win multiple SB MVPs. It is nonsensical for voters to even think of keeping the guy out.
Peyton may be the better regular season QB, but I'd take Eli in the postseason over him any day of the week. In Peyton's lone SB run with the Colts, he threw 3 TDs and 7 INTs in 4 games. His draft compatriot - Rivers - has literally never beaten Brady. Ever.
Agreed. JR could not evaluate OL to save his life (or his job). Hence as the Accorsi OL deteriorated, JR could not rebuild it, and without an OL a team literally can’t go anywhere.
It’s crazy how he could draft OL in the 1st round and they wouldn’t even turn out to be average, they were just BAD. Somehow it’s like the higher up he drafted an O Lineman the worse the player turned out to be. I mean think about it: Richburg, Pugh, Flowers... each one a higher pick than the next and each one a worse player than the next.
Ereck Flowers truly set the franchise back a half a decade. He was impressively bad. Remember when we thought we just had to switch him to his “natural position” at RT? So funny how we convinced ourselves that a player who clearly sucks ass at playing football would somehow not suck ass just by putting him on a different side of the field. I remember starting Wheeler in that one game in 2018 and it actually was noticeably better... a 2nd year undrafted player was a breath of fresh air compared to our 4th year #9 overall pick. Insane.
Don’t get me wrong, I’ll always love Reese for the role he played in bringing 2 Lombardi trophies to this franchise. I honestly think he sometimes doesn’t get enough credit around here for the good things he did do. No GM is perfect, and I really do believe the combination of Accorsi’s talents and Reese’s talents were actually the perfect fit for building a team at that time and that’s why 2005-2012 was one of the greatest eras of this franchise.
It felt like Accorsi’s core guys held the fabric together with hard-nosed disciplined play and sound fundamentals, while Reese’s guys were flat out playmakers who just beat the other team with speed, strength, athleticism. (I realize that’s a very simplified way of putting it and not true in every instance for every player, I’m just speaking generally.)
But man, if only Reese could have just admitted that he literally knew nothing about evaluating OL and passed that responsibility to... literally anyone else... Eli might have had a much better 2nd half of his career and maybe even a 3rd ring.
like Warren Sapp. Still pisses me off that he was first ballot and Strahan wasn't. there is certainly a political element or an anti-NY bias.
I'm hoping they put Eli in on the first ballot.
Should he get in eventually - I think so. 2 Super Bowls and had Strahan not retired and Burress not shot himself they had legitimate chance to repeat.
It always seemed like there was a vendetta against him after the draft and him not wanting to play in San Diego.
Throughout it all, Eli handled everything like a professional. I am glad he got that last victory so he didn't have an under .500 record as a reason for voters to hold against him.
I really do hope he gets in on the first ballot and given some of the support he has received from media/fans over the last few years, I am crossing my fingers.
“I will vote for Eli Manning first ballot,” ESPN’s Sal Paolontonio said. “He was great when it counted the most. Manning has the top-flight passing numbers and the magnificent durability to cement his legacy of greatness. He has been a great ambassador for the game and team he represents. He is a Hall of Famer.”
He won playoff games in only two of his 16 years. HOWEVER, in those two years, he was 8-0 in the playoffs.
Agreed. He was clutch when it counted in the biggest games, but even in his prime he was never talked about in the elite QB’s of the era. To mix sports, he is essentially the Bert Blyleven of the NFL. That being said, Joe Namath had a much worse résumé yet is in there.
My standard is "can you tell the story of the game without this player"?
You cant without Eli Manning. His highs were too important to ignore. He is too important to such a prominent franchise and his stats are there too in yards and TDs.
Eli Manning is a Hall of Famer
I think he will be our next Harry Carson vis a vis the HOF.
I don't think that it is they don't like him, many view him as streaky and inconsistent with too many dumb plays for a smart guy.
I also do not think he will be "Harry Carsoned". Harry was a victim of all those other great Giants LBs being on the same field at the same time and everyone's eyes were drawn to LT.
I think Eli's 2 SB's, 2 SB MVPs and his overall numbers will eventually get him in. Probably the 2nd or 3rd time. The big thing is to two SB last minute drives to beat Brady and Belichick. They cannot look past those two games.
If so, it would be a travesty for Eli to not. Namath entered the Hal mainly for beating the mighty Colts and establishing the AFL teams as worthy opponents.
Eli taking down the Pats twice certainly is equal or greater to Namath's sole win.
If so, it would be a travesty for Eli to not. Namath entered the Hal mainly for beating the mighty Colts and establishing the AFL teams as worthy opponents.
Eli taking down the Pats twice certainly is equal or greater to Namath's sole win.
Looks like Namath retired in '77 and got into the Hall in'85. So he had to wait a few years before he got in.
7th all time in passing yards
7th all time in passing TDs
7th all time in completions
He's a slam dunk without the two Super Bowl wins and MVPs.
Quote:
Joe Namath get into the Hall on the first ballot?
If so, it would be a travesty for Eli to not. Namath entered the Hal mainly for beating the mighty Colts and establishing the AFL teams as worthy opponents.
Eli taking down the Pats twice certainly is equal or greater to Namath's sole win.
Looks like Namath retired in '77 and got into the Hall in'85. So he had to wait a few years before he got in.
Thanks. I see eli as a fair comparison, so if he waits a couple of years, that should be OK. I do know the entrant list gets a lot tougher the years that follow though
If so, it would be a travesty for Eli to not. Namath entered the Hal mainly for beating the mighty Colts and establishing the AFL teams as worthy opponents.
Eli taking down the Pats twice certainly is equal or greater to Namath's sole win.
Namath took at least two extra years after he was first eligible.