...I don't know if you guys remember but in the first game against the Cowboys - I think Randall Cobb caught the ball before the marker, near the goal line. He essentially just used one arm to move the defender (I forget who it was). I hated how I felt after that - I hope Judge and staff instill some pride.
"Yep, I looked at the film. Talent level is poor. Going to recommend to DG that we gut the roster and start over with wholesale changes. Half the players on the team should start packing".
He addressed the issue the only way he can... a positive spin & very generic.
That said, I do wonder how much of last year's performance was talent and how much was coaching.
I am at least hopeful that if the team winds up on a long losing streak we won't see the head coach stammer on about how he's hamstrung by an historically young roster.
of the realm of possibility that this team was better than their shitty record. First off, SB was hampered a good portion of the season. Then add in the number of games missed by EE, SS, Sb, GT (suspension) and you can see where things could have been better.
Overall we know we have holes and will have holes next year. The question is, will our new coaches be able to overcome some holes and use people differently to cover up those holes. I am most excited to see our varied ways of attacking teams week in and week out.
We know there are more guys of interest but you can stop the list there and be encouraged by having 4 high upside starters, just 1 or 2 years into their careers.
Add from there with the group of more proven vets (Tomlinson, Shepard, Tate, Peppers, Engram) and recent picks (Baker, Hernandez, Love, Connelly, Carter, Hill), and it's not hard to conclude this is young roster with talent that needs to be coached, and not a broken roster that needs to be dynamited.
Especially after this year's draft class gets added into the fold.
...I don't know if you guys remember but in the first game against the Cowboys - I think Randall Cobb caught the ball before the marker, near the goal line. He essentially just used one arm to move the defender (I forget who it was). I hated how I felt after that - I hope Judge and staff instill some pride.
Hamilton? Maybe...
What I remember from that game is how clueless the DBs were and they let the Dallas WRers run free all game long.
Sickening.
There are probably a dozen maybe even a few more Â
NFL coaches that would have won 8 games minimum with the 2019 Giants roster and schedule. Hopefully Judge is one of them. On paper the 2020 schedule is more difficult.
We know there are more guys of interest but you can stop the list there and be encouraged by having 4 high upside starters, just 1 or 2 years into their careers.
Add from there with the group of more proven vets (Tomlinson, Shepard, Tate, Peppers, Engram) and recent picks (Baker, Hernandez, Love, Connelly, Carter, Hill), and it's not hard to conclude this is young roster with talent that needs to be coached, and not a broken roster that needs to be dynamited.
Especially after this year's draft class gets added into the fold.
I just see some older guys dynamited: Bethea, Martin and Ellison for sure. Otherwise, I'm with you and see a core to build upon.
We do need a LT and OC for the offense if possible. If we end up with the same group as last year (Pulley starting over Hilapio) we are surely in trouble.
For a good portion of the Reese years we were a very top heavy roster meaning we had pretty good starters but little to no depth. When I look at our current team I see a team that is the exact opposite. Imo, that is a good thing. We need to continue drafting well and supplement with the right FAs. I believe this to be true for a couple of reasons. One, we are young and we have guys with upside. Two, look at our special teams play. You don't fall into good special teams. You need the bottom half of the roster filled with hungry, talented players. Yes, that may not necessarily translate into those players being great at their offensive/defensive positions but it is a good starting point. We have done a good job of churning over the bottom half of the roster the last two years and I expect that to push some of those guys toward the top half of the roster.
Basically what I am getting at is being top heavy will not last in the NFL. There are too many turnovers and big contracts. Any success will not be sustained. The way we are building this there should be sustained success if we continue to go in the current direction. Patience is key imo. But, will we be able to have that patience?
If he wants flexibility .....they need 4-3 DEs....and more cover LBers Â
NFL coaches that would have won 8 games minimum with the 2019 Giants roster and schedule. Hopefully Judge is one of them. On paper the 2020 schedule is more difficult.
Right with this Defense? You do know Vegas had the over/under of wins at 6 for us
Probably can count up to 451. Because that's the amount of points they gave up this year. If he thinks only a few tweaks will improve that awful group, he's the second coming of Parcells. Or Lombardi.
What else is he going to say, "Hey, I've been looking at our players and they really stink." He's got to give a positive spin. Means nothing.
"New head coach Joe Judge was seen getting physically ill while watching film of the 2019 New York Giants. Some speculate that it could just be a coincidence, a stomach bug has been going around the office, but there's no way to know for sure."
What else is he going to say, "Hey, I've been looking at our players and they really stink." He's got to give a positive spin. Means nothing.
He can say nothing. He can say "Heading into FA and draft I am taking a deep dive into our roster to see where our strengths and weaknesses lie. We have both."
He doesn't have to be so positive. And he has kept pretty tight-lipped so I am willing to give him the benefit of the doubt that it's not mostly BS
i'm not saying some upgrades arent needed, because some of the players on this team, especially defense are beyond help. HOWEVER, i think its pretty clear the Giants have been poorly coached for a while now.
I think we win 7 games if Barkley stays healthy all year.
The two most obvious weak links on defense were Bethea and Ogletree. I think our defense would have been better with Love for Bethea and Connely (obviously if healthy) for Ogletree.
We also have a rookie QB who wasn't expected to start that early. The cupboard is not bare.
Agreed completely. With the youth movement comes the growing pains. Our defensive backfield could turn out to be a team strength despite early returns as an example.
I think its easy to blame things on "lack of talent" Â
because we see players play but we have no idea how coaches coach.
I think we are more towards the middle of the pack when it comes to overall team talent, not bottom 3-5 like many on this board would like to believe. Our coaching just had to be atrocious - there's simply no other explanation of the mass regression so many players had.
Maybe my stance on this will change after the 2020 season, but until then, I think the coaching change will net us the biggest improvements.
"Our men are the scum of the Earth." But he didn't.
There's no way Judge could have formed an honest opinion of any of our players - positive or negative - in such a short time, except, perhaps for Jones and Barkley. He's still putting his staff together, and once it's complete, no doubt they'll each look at what they have to work with, how they plan to use what they have, what they need to do to fix problems, and where they need to upgrade. Right now, "coachspeak" is about all we should expect from him, and rightly so.
i'm not saying some upgrades arent needed, because some of the players on this team, especially defense are beyond help. HOWEVER, i think its pretty clear the Giants have been poorly coached for a while now.
This marketing(coaching) assault spin is to take pressure off the internal problems of selecting talent. "teaching" ya ya ya
all spin and bullshit. When the whistle blows we will realize DG and folks in the background selected the product on display. Hope I am wrong but we are rebuilding and they had to start with something that looked good and refused to fire DG.
Now they're in the SB. That's a real quick turn-around.
I'm NOT saying that's going to happen to the Giants, but the roster is not without young talent. About half of the 53 are young, Gettleman guys, and that young core will grow this year.
I would think Judge WOULD be excited to work with Jones, to use Barkley CORRECTLY, to have some decent WRs. And a nice rotation of young, talented interior DLs.
Let say they acquire (via draft or FA) 2 good pass rushers, 2 good OLs and 2 good LBs. Just 6 guys, but all of them starter-quality. This whole team could look much better rather quickly.
Now they're in the SB. That's a real quick turn-around.
I'm NOT saying that's going to happen to the Giants, but the roster is not without young talent. About half of the 53 are young, Gettleman guys, and that young core will grow this year.
I would think Judge WOULD be excited to work with Jones, to use Barkley CORRECTLY, to have some decent WRs. And a nice rotation of young, talented interior DLs.
Let say they acquire (via draft or FA) 2 good pass rushers, 2 good OLs and 2 good LBs. Just 6 guys, but all of them starter-quality. This whole team could look much better rather quickly.
People need to stop using the 49ers as a barometer.. they have been building that team for 3 years now. And their QB missed almost all of last year as well.. They did not turn it around in one season..
I think we win 7 games if Barkley stays healthy all year.
The two most obvious weak links on defense were Bethea and Ogletree. I think our defense would have been better with Love for Bethea and Connely (obviously if healthy) for Ogletree.
We also have a rookie QB who wasn't expected to start that early. The cupboard is not bare.
I could be dead wrong, but I think Ogletree May look a lot better in a different defense and different role. I would like to see them try to use him before cutting him loose.
People need to stop using the 49ers as a barometer.. they have been building that team for 3 years now. And their QB missed almost all of last year as well.. They did not turn it around in one season..
Actually, that's exactly what they did. How far back you want to go?
4 consecutive years of sub .500 play, and then, boom. Not just finally a winning record, but all of the sudden, a dominant one.
YES, they've been building the team with losing-record draft picks. But I don't think ANYONE was saying last year, "Oh, if Garrapolo was only in there, they'd have had 11, 12, or 13 wins after a 6-10 season."
But if they HAD done that last year, that, too, would have been turning it around in one season.
The Giants have been picking high for a few years, too. For the last 2 years with DG. If you keep drafting high, and can get it more right than wrong, eventually you turn it around. How quickly is anyone's guess, but as a by product of parity, teams HAVE gone from bottom 5 to top 5 in a single season, fairly regularly.
So I'll say it again. If you give them 2 starting quality pass rushers, 2 starting quality OLs, and 2 starting quality LBs, I'd bet this team goes better than 8-8.
He addressed the issue the only way he can... a positive spin & very generic.
I am at least hopeful that if the team winds up on a long losing streak we won't see the head coach stammer on about how he's hamstrung by an historically young roster.
Overall we know we have holes and will have holes next year. The question is, will our new coaches be able to overcome some holes and use people differently to cover up those holes. I am most excited to see our varied ways of attacking teams week in and week out.
Barkley
Slayton
Lawrence
We know there are more guys of interest but you can stop the list there and be encouraged by having 4 high upside starters, just 1 or 2 years into their careers.
Add from there with the group of more proven vets (Tomlinson, Shepard, Tate, Peppers, Engram) and recent picks (Baker, Hernandez, Love, Connelly, Carter, Hill), and it's not hard to conclude this is young roster with talent that needs to be coached, and not a broken roster that needs to be dynamited.
Especially after this year's draft class gets added into the fold.
... and maybe he would have been more right than wrong ...
Hamilton? Maybe...
What I remember from that game is how clueless the DBs were and they let the Dallas WRers run free all game long.
Sickening.
Barkley
Slayton
Lawrence
We know there are more guys of interest but you can stop the list there and be encouraged by having 4 high upside starters, just 1 or 2 years into their careers.
Add from there with the group of more proven vets (Tomlinson, Shepard, Tate, Peppers, Engram) and recent picks (Baker, Hernandez, Love, Connelly, Carter, Hill), and it's not hard to conclude this is young roster with talent that needs to be coached, and not a broken roster that needs to be dynamited.
Especially after this year's draft class gets added into the fold.
We do need a LT and OC for the offense if possible. If we end up with the same group as last year (Pulley starting over Hilapio) we are surely in trouble.
Basically what I am getting at is being top heavy will not last in the NFL. There are too many turnovers and big contracts. Any success will not be sustained. The way we are building this there should be sustained success if we continue to go in the current direction. Patience is key imo. But, will we be able to have that patience?
He's been very guarded with his words to date.
Right with this Defense? You do know Vegas had the over/under of wins at 6 for us
"New head coach Joe Judge was seen getting physically ill while watching film of the 2019 New York Giants. Some speculate that it could just be a coincidence, a stomach bug has been going around the office, but there's no way to know for sure."
He can say nothing. He can say "Heading into FA and draft I am taking a deep dive into our roster to see where our strengths and weaknesses lie. We have both."
He doesn't have to be so positive. And he has kept pretty tight-lipped so I am willing to give him the benefit of the doubt that it's not mostly BS
i'm not saying some upgrades arent needed, because some of the players on this team, especially defense are beyond help. HOWEVER, i think its pretty clear the Giants have been poorly coached for a while now.
Link - ( New Window )
The two most obvious weak links on defense were Bethea and Ogletree. I think our defense would have been better with Love for Bethea and Connely (obviously if healthy) for Ogletree.
We also have a rookie QB who wasn't expected to start that early. The cupboard is not bare.
I think we are more towards the middle of the pack when it comes to overall team talent, not bottom 3-5 like many on this board would like to believe. Our coaching just had to be atrocious - there's simply no other explanation of the mass regression so many players had.
Maybe my stance on this will change after the 2020 season, but until then, I think the coaching change will net us the biggest improvements.
They must nail down some upgrades there this offseason.
There's no way Judge could have formed an honest opinion of any of our players - positive or negative - in such a short time, except, perhaps for Jones and Barkley. He's still putting his staff together, and once it's complete, no doubt they'll each look at what they have to work with, how they plan to use what they have, what they need to do to fix problems, and where they need to upgrade. Right now, "coachspeak" is about all we should expect from him, and rightly so.
i'm not saying some upgrades arent needed, because some of the players on this team, especially defense are beyond help. HOWEVER, i think its pretty clear the Giants have been poorly coached for a while now.
This marketing(coaching) assault spin is to take pressure off the internal problems of selecting talent. "teaching" ya ya ya
all spin and bullshit. When the whistle blows we will realize DG and folks in the background selected the product on display. Hope I am wrong but we are rebuilding and they had to start with something that looked good and refused to fire DG.
Now they're in the SB. That's a real quick turn-around.
I'm NOT saying that's going to happen to the Giants, but the roster is not without young talent. About half of the 53 are young, Gettleman guys, and that young core will grow this year.
I would think Judge WOULD be excited to work with Jones, to use Barkley CORRECTLY, to have some decent WRs. And a nice rotation of young, talented interior DLs.
Let say they acquire (via draft or FA) 2 good pass rushers, 2 good OLs and 2 good LBs. Just 6 guys, but all of them starter-quality. This whole team could look much better rather quickly.
Now they're in the SB. That's a real quick turn-around.
I'm NOT saying that's going to happen to the Giants, but the roster is not without young talent. About half of the 53 are young, Gettleman guys, and that young core will grow this year.
I would think Judge WOULD be excited to work with Jones, to use Barkley CORRECTLY, to have some decent WRs. And a nice rotation of young, talented interior DLs.
Let say they acquire (via draft or FA) 2 good pass rushers, 2 good OLs and 2 good LBs. Just 6 guys, but all of them starter-quality. This whole team could look much better rather quickly.
People need to stop using the 49ers as a barometer.. they have been building that team for 3 years now. And their QB missed almost all of last year as well.. They did not turn it around in one season..
The two most obvious weak links on defense were Bethea and Ogletree. I think our defense would have been better with Love for Bethea and Connely (obviously if healthy) for Ogletree.
We also have a rookie QB who wasn't expected to start that early. The cupboard is not bare.
I could be dead wrong, but I think Ogletree May look a lot better in a different defense and different role. I would like to see them try to use him before cutting him loose.
Actually, that's exactly what they did. How far back you want to go?
SF
2015: 5-11
2016: 2-14
2017: 6-10
2018: 4-12
2019: 13-3
4 consecutive years of sub .500 play, and then, boom. Not just finally a winning record, but all of the sudden, a dominant one.
YES, they've been building the team with losing-record draft picks. But I don't think ANYONE was saying last year, "Oh, if Garrapolo was only in there, they'd have had 11, 12, or 13 wins after a 6-10 season."
But if they HAD done that last year, that, too, would have been turning it around in one season.
The Giants have been picking high for a few years, too. For the last 2 years with DG. If you keep drafting high, and can get it more right than wrong, eventually you turn it around. How quickly is anyone's guess, but as a by product of parity, teams HAVE gone from bottom 5 to top 5 in a single season, fairly regularly.
So I'll say it again. If you give them 2 starting quality pass rushers, 2 starting quality OLs, and 2 starting quality LBs, I'd bet this team goes better than 8-8.
Sadly, that's a tall order for one offseason.