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Quick update on big picture NYG Draft outlook

Sy'56 : 1/23/2020 6:06 pm
Hey guys-

I am knee deep in writing my final reports now / updating stacks. I will be sharing what I can in April. Will try to address a few things I have seen asked/discussed that I haven't had time to get to in addition to some thoughts I have had circulate in relation to NYG as I get the work done.

-I think NYG needs to go defense @4 if they stay put. There are is chance someone makes a move up for a QB but there are countless variables that can make our heads spin there. So I just stick with NYG staying at 4. They need a defensive playmaker or 2 this offseason. I can see them spending big at CB or EDGE...and going with Simmons or Okudah at #4.

-One negative on Simmons - he would have to play a similar role to Peppers. Can you get both those guys on the field without compromising interior run defense or deep coverage? You don't want Peppers playing the CF role - you don't want Simmons playing an ILB role. Also consider Julian Love earned some snaps in my opinion. I you view Simmons as a LB/S hybrid - it may be hard to have Peppers or Love out there - let alone all 3 together.

-The OL can be addressed in round 2. There will be a quality OT or OC there, both spots I think NYG needs to address. Maybe one can be done in FA? Not sure I see the value there though, we will see if anyone gets cut due to money reasons though.

-NYG can consider OT at #4 - but there is a group of 3 or 4 guys that all have warts. I still have 1st round grades on them but in terms of immediate impact and really high ceiling, may be a tough sell to take them that high.

-This WR class is historic. NYG could use another young pass catcher to develop and contribute on a part time basis in 2020, preferably one with size. Because of the supply, they may get a day 2 grade in round 4 or 5 like they did with Slayton. Be patient - someone will be there day 3.

-In terms of looking outside the box - how about looking for one of these TEs? This is a sneaky-solid group that will present value day 2 / early day 3. "NYG has bigger needs" I know - but consider the idea FA can fill some of them AND if NYG truly wants to plan around Barkley without compromising the passing game too much - a 2 TE offense can be a thing here especially if Engram is one of them, a guy that can pass as a WR.

I am around the next 2 hours if any questions want to be asked. I will get to them.
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Ok got one - what do you make of Andrew Thomas’  
cosmicj : 1/23/2020 6:09 pm : link
Personality and work ethic? He’s obviously tremendously physically gifted but has technical lapses. Are those lapses and the draft rating downgrade offset by smarts and a desire to learn?
I dont think the Giants will go Edge @ #4  
blueblood : 1/23/2020 6:10 pm : link
simply because I dont think anyone will be there worth the #4..


So what about round 2.. who are the second tier edge guys who might get a look..

Thanks, Sy.  
Klaatu : 1/23/2020 6:11 pm : link
Looking forward to your write-ups, as always.
I am with you on the core statement at 4  
gidiefor : Mod : 1/23/2020 6:12 pm : link
it's got to be defense!!!!
RE: Ok got one - what do you make of Andrew Thomas’  
Sy'56 : 1/23/2020 6:16 pm : link
In comment 14791335 cosmicj said:
Quote:
Personality and work ethic? He’s obviously tremendously physically gifted but has technical lapses. Are those lapses and the draft rating downgrade offset by smarts and a desire to learn?


I idon't have much on the character / maturity / work ethic. Not yet anyway.

His inconsistency is frustrating, for sure.

Andrew Thomas at his best is better than any other OT at their best. At the very least he is a plus run blocker right away.
Mekhi Becton  
widmerseyebrow : 1/23/2020 6:16 pm : link
Has been brought up a lot here as of late. Where should he be going in the draft? Should the Giants be interested?
Glad you mentioned TE's. I started a thread about them the other day.  
Klaatu : 1/23/2020 6:16 pm : link
So, how about a quick take on Brycen Hopkins and Albert Okwuegbunam?
Looking forward to your writeup Sy  
Earl the goat : 1/23/2020 6:17 pm : link
But you can let the cat out of the bag early
I know Mekhi Becton is your top rated OT
RE: I dont think the Giants will go Edge @ #4  
Sy'56 : 1/23/2020 6:17 pm : link
In comment 14791337 blueblood said:
Quote:
simply because I dont think anyone will be there worth the #4..


So what about round 2.. who are the second tier edge guys who might get a look..


Few names:

Chaisson / LSU
Gross Matos / Penn State
Lewis / Alabama
Baun / Wisconsin
Greenard / Florida
Very sound post!!  
ColHowPepper : 1/23/2020 6:18 pm : link
And I second and third the notion of TE in middle rounds.
EE is not a TE, never mind he cannot stay on the field.
Look at all the TEs in the NFC alone who were drafted 4th, 5th and are stellar.

Kadin is a good start, maybe Conrad for depth, but next to the voids and failures at OL and LBs, TE is vying for 3rd worst position drafting/planning (on both sides of the ball).
Thanks for the insight  
OBJRoyal : 1/23/2020 6:19 pm : link
Great points addressed. No doubt the Giants need playmakers on defense and along the OL. Get a huge upgrade at C and LB and that's a big start
Hoping for a trade down  
Nine-Tails : 1/23/2020 6:20 pm : link
As Sy said the wr and of class are deep, but probably in the organizations best interest to not go that route at pick four. IF we can trade back but still remain in the top ten. We can add a defender and use the extra picks to take advantage of the depth at wr and ot.
good stuff Sy - question for you on RB's  
Eric on Li : 1/23/2020 6:23 pm : link
is there a day 3 guy you like as a change of pace type? Sort of like this year's version of Travis Homer.
Thank you, Sy....feel they can have their cake and eat it too...  
George from PA : 1/23/2020 6:24 pm : link
With Miami @5, and plenty of picks...seems like a no brainer....to swap picks....to assure Miami their QB
And afford the Giants an extra pick or two?

Assuming chase young and corner are too valuable for Washington and Detroit.
Yes!  
beatrixkiddo : 1/23/2020 6:25 pm : link
Sy a big thank you as this is my favorite time of year on BBI, and your contributions on the draft are such a boost to the content of these threads.

Not knowing much about Simmons or Okudah what are your projections on them as pros, what current players are they most similar to in reaching that kind of potential? thanks!
Sy  
Professor Falken : 1/23/2020 6:28 pm : link
Gonna give you the Joe Judge test on Simmons. Don't tell me what he can't do. Tell me what he can do and how he could be a difference maker for the Giants, worthy of the #4 pick.

Thanks!
Derrick Brown DT Auburn  
Mark in ATL : 1/23/2020 6:29 pm : link
Sy - If you did a ranking of defensive players in the draft irrespective of position where would you rank Brown? Three or four?
Sy - Paul Alexander has had some good things to say..  
Racer : 1/23/2020 6:33 pm : link
..about the OLinemen during Senior Bowl practice, in particular Josh Jones.

Who should we be watching on the oline during the game?

Thanks.
At a minimum they need both a  
Reb8thVA : 1/23/2020 6:33 pm : link
Center and. Tackle. Going defense in the first without trading down complicates that given our 3rd round pick is closer to an early fourth.
Im 100% on board SY  
twostepgiants : 1/23/2020 6:34 pm : link
Defense af 4 and OL at top of round 2. Im thinking a C there

What OL would you target at top of rd 2?

Id there anyone you might move up for into the 1st?
Sy...Funny the comparison of Simmons to Peppers!  
edavisiii : 1/23/2020 6:35 pm : link
I was thinking about the Beckham trade and the fact that no one thought Cleveland would be a bad as they were and the Giants might have been better off asking for the 2020 #1!
We could have gotten Simmons at 4 and an OL at 10 and might have been better off. Oh well, hindsight is 20/20.

2 questions, supposed they get a Defesive Player at 4 and a center at 36, would Matthew Peart from UConn be a good option with the comp 3rd or high 4th????

Also, one of my friends is the D Coordinator at Bishop Hendricken HS in RI. He coached KWITY PAYE in HS and has always said he is a great kid. They have a few kid playing D1 and a bunch more in D2 an D3 but Kwitty has always been a favorite of the staff because of the person he is. Any early thoughts on how he is being viewed. I was involved in RI HS football as an assistant for 6 years and I am always pulling for our kids!

Great to see you checking in....Thanks Ed

Hi Sy  
Jay in Toronto : 1/23/2020 6:38 pm : link
I am a Badger Fan.

When you do your evaluations, I am wondering why Chris Orr is getting so little love and whether Quintez Cephus could be good value for us as a WR.

TIA
RE: Mekhi Becton  
Sy'56 : 1/23/2020 6:40 pm : link
In comment 14791344 widmerseyebrow said:
Quote:
Has been brought up a lot here as of late. Where should he be going in the draft? Should the Giants be interested?


Interested? Absolutely. 1st round grade and has some of the most dominant tape I have seen from OT in years.

There are consistency issues and I think they will need to get some 1 on 1 visits with him. He is sloppy - and one red flag is that he got worse as the year went. He opened the year with quality technique but by the end of the year he got really sloppy. Maybe he got too caught up in to his pancake-block highlight reel? That won't work in the NFL

Question is...will he work on technique? And keep working on it. And then keep working on it.
RE: Glad you mentioned TE's. I started a thread about them the other day.  
Sy'56 : 1/23/2020 6:41 pm : link
In comment 14791346 Klaatu said:
Quote:
So, how about a quick take on Brycen Hopkins and Albert Okwuegbunam?


Hopkins is crafty and a sure hands catcher. I think he is a tad small and won't make a big difference in the trenches. Solid player that can be moved around. Smart, plays hard.
Zack Baun  
Jay in Toronto : 1/23/2020 6:42 pm : link
Has been rising. Do you see him as a 'true' ER?
RE: good stuff Sy - question for you on RB's  
Sy'56 : 1/23/2020 6:44 pm : link
In comment 14791359 Eric on Li said:
Quote:
is there a day 3 guy you like as a change of pace type? Sort of like this year's version of Travis Homer.



There always are nice change of pace, accessory type RBs late. Question is - can they and will they block?

I love McFarland from Maryland but I think he goes a little earlier then where NYG will look RB. Reggie Corbin is interesting to me - a small but sneaky powerful and quick kid with good hands reminds me a bit of Tiki. Also like JJ Taylor from Arizona.

Why not a power back? Give Barkley a rest on short yardage to keep him safer and allow him to be the guy to catch the ball? Similar to how CAR spells McCaffrey.

Bennie LeMay from Charlotte is a nice power guy as is AJ Dillon from BC and Olinolua from TCU (has a drug arrest though).
RE: Yes!  
Sy'56 : 1/23/2020 6:47 pm : link
In comment 14791363 beatrixkiddo said:
Quote:
Sy a big thank you as this is my favorite time of year on BBI, and your contributions on the draft are such a boost to the content of these threads.

Not knowing much about Simmons or Okudah what are your projections on them as pros, what current players are they most similar to in reaching that kind of potential? thanks!


Simmons is one of the more unique players I have scouted. I see some Derwin James in him actually, the LAC safety. You have to be really creative with him though because his one red flag is playing through traffic as a traditional LB. He is just another guy in that role.

Okudah - I don't want to get ahead of myself because I still have some work to do there but I see some Patrick Peterson when it comes to versatility and competitiveness. He can be an island guy - something I don't say often.

Would the FO use 1st round pick on CB 2 years in a row? I don't know.
RE: Sy  
Sy'56 : 1/23/2020 6:48 pm : link
In comment 14791366 Professor Falken said:
Quote:
Gonna give you the Joe Judge test on Simmons. Don't tell me what he can't do. Tell me what he can do and how he could be a difference maker for the Giants, worthy of the #4 pick.

Thanks!


Cover TEs (a major NYG defensive issue for years)
Rush the passer from all angles (don't we miss those days?)
Pursues hard and is always around the ball
Smart and instinctive - reactions are on point
Makes plays
RE: Derrick Brown DT Auburn  
Sy'56 : 1/23/2020 6:49 pm : link
In comment 14791368 Mark in ATL said:
Quote:
Sy - If you did a ranking of defensive players in the draft irrespective of position where would you rank Brown? Three or four?


Brown is tied for #3 defensive player in this draft for me
Sy  
armstead98 : 1/23/2020 6:51 pm : link
How are your top 3 players on defense after chase young?
RE: Sy - Paul Alexander has had some good things to say..  
Sy'56 : 1/23/2020 6:51 pm : link
In comment 14791374 Racer said:
Quote:
..about the OLinemen during Senior Bowl practice, in particular Josh Jones.

Who should we be watching on the oline during the game?

Thanks.


Jones is a long term upside guy - don't think he is a 2020 guy.

OC Cushenberry is intersting, as are fellow OCs Hennessey and Harris.

OG Jonah Jackson is a versatile interior backup with starter potential down the road.

The D III kid Bartch made me a believer this week. Really solid but not sure he can play OT.
RE: Sy...Funny the comparison of Simmons to Peppers!  
Sy'56 : 1/23/2020 6:53 pm : link
In comment 14791380 edavisiii said:
Quote:
I was thinking about the Beckham trade and the fact that no one thought Cleveland would be a bad as they were and the Giants might have been better off asking for the 2020 #1!
We could have gotten Simmons at 4 and an OL at 10 and might have been better off. Oh well, hindsight is 20/20.

2 questions, supposed they get a Defesive Player at 4 and a center at 36, would Matthew Peart from UConn be a good option with the comp 3rd or high 4th????

Also, one of my friends is the D Coordinator at Bishop Hendricken HS in RI. He coached KWITY PAYE in HS and has always said he is a great kid. They have a few kid playing D1 and a bunch more in D2 an D3 but Kwitty has always been a favorite of the staff because of the person he is. Any early thoughts on how he is being viewed. I was involved in RI HS football as an assistant for 6 years and I am always pulling for our kids!

Great to see you checking in....Thanks Ed


I'm not high on Peart. Too much waist bending - feet aren't there. Having a hard time in Sr Bowl practice.
RE: Hi Sy  
Sy'56 : 1/23/2020 6:54 pm : link
In comment 14791384 Jay in Toronto said:
Quote:
I am a Badger Fan.

When you do your evaluations, I am wondering why Chris Orr is getting so little love and whether Quintez Cephus could be good value for us as a WR.

TIA


Orr is a thumper and special teamer. A good one. But the demand for them isn't what is used to be. EVERYONE is looking for LBs that can cover...or at the very least run. Orr is below average in both.

Cephus I still have to do work on.
RE: Zack Baun  
Sy'56 : 1/23/2020 6:54 pm : link
In comment 14791388 Jay in Toronto said:
Quote:
Has been rising. Do you see him as a 'true' ER?


I prefer him off ball with some 3rd down rushing potential. I don't want him on line every down.
RE: Sy  
Sy'56 : 1/23/2020 6:56 pm : link
In comment 14791402 armstead98 said:
Quote:
How are your top 3 players on defense after chase young?


CB Okudah
LB Simmons
DT Brown
"The OL can be addressed in round 2.  
BillT : 1/23/2020 6:57 pm : link
There will be a quality OT or OC there,"

Only one problem with this. We don't need "a quality OT or OC" We need two a quality OT and a quality OC. Unless we're signing a bunch of OL in FA this won't do.
Lots of talent...  
bw in dc : 1/23/2020 6:57 pm : link
on that Utah team this year.

Thoughts on their DE Anae and their corner Johnson?

It's not a need, but would be curious to hear your thoughts on Jordan Love, too...
Thanks Sy!  
ChathamMark : 1/23/2020 7:05 pm : link
Always look forward to your posts.
RE:  
Sy'56 : 1/23/2020 7:06 pm : link
In comment 14791418 BillT said:
Quote:
There will be a quality OT or OC there,"

Only one problem with this. We don't need "a quality OT or OC" We need two a quality OT and a quality OC. Unless we're signing a bunch of OL in FA this won't do.


Can't fill 3 holes with one pick

FA needs to address a few of the roster issues.
RE: Lots of talent...  
Sy'56 : 1/23/2020 7:07 pm : link
In comment 14791419 bw in dc said:
Quote:
on that Utah team this year.

Thoughts on their DE Anae and their corner Johnson?

It's not a need, but would be curious to hear your thoughts on Jordan Love, too...


Anae is a try-hard guy that lacks top end talent. He can be a solid rotational player but I wouldn't want him as my feature guy.

Johnson has the size/speed that the NFL loves at the position. Good ball skills - some reading issues and will bail too early. Correctable. Potential 1st round grade that will be there day 2.

Love is the highest upside passer in the class - including Burrow. But there is a lot that will need to happen and progress if he will reach the ceiling.
Tryna find a good center  
aGiantGuy : 1/23/2020 7:16 pm : link
Matt Hennessy looks like he could be an elite zone blocker at the NFL level, thought he was light in the pants though and all his tools may not translate to NFL defenders, wadda you think? Do you like Cushenberry better?
Sy regarding Derrick Brown  
Nine-Tails : 1/23/2020 7:16 pm : link
Could you see Gettleman taking him at four. That’s one of my biggest fears and has nothing to do with Brown, he’s great. We just have so many needs at other areas.
I probably saw...  
bw in dc : 1/23/2020 7:19 pm : link
parts of three Utah games and I swear Anae was always making something happen. If he wasn't sacking the QB he was getting damn close.

I like those high effort guys. Has Patriot written all over him.

I really liked Love coming into the year but he really took a step back. I was pumped to see him in the LSU game. And I know USU was outclassed against LSU talent-wise, but Love's play was uninspiring...

RE: Tryna find a good center  
Sy'56 : 1/23/2020 7:21 pm : link
In comment 14791436 aGiantGuy said:
Quote:
Matt Hennessy looks like he could be an elite zone blocker at the NFL level, thought he was light in the pants though and all his tools may not translate to NFL defenders, wadda you think? Do you like Cushenberry better?


Intelligence is trait #1 you want out of OC. But yes I want a guy that can anchor too. I do prefer movement over power though - I am fine with bth Cushenberry and Hennessey. Intrigued by Harris too.
RE: Sy regarding Derrick Brown  
Sy'56 : 1/23/2020 7:22 pm : link
In comment 14791437 Nine-Tails said:
Quote:
Could you see Gettleman taking him at four. That’s one of my biggest fears and has nothing to do with Brown, he’s great. We just have so many needs at other areas.


No, I do not see Gettleman going there.
While I really want a top OT prospect in round 1  
Jay on the Island : 1/23/2020 7:22 pm : link
I don't think the Giants can pass on a talent like Simmons. Luckily for the Giants this draft is very deep at OT and they can grab a good one in round 2.
ILB  
Mark in ATL : 1/23/2020 7:32 pm : link
What’s your opinion on Murray the ILB from Oklahoma and who do you like at that position?
RE: ILB  
Sy'56 : 1/23/2020 7:33 pm : link
In comment 14791452 Mark in ATL said:
Quote:
What’s your opinion on Murray the ILB from Oklahoma and who do you like at that position?


I love Murray. He is my LB1 outside of Simmons. I have a higher grade on him than anyone I have spoken with.
Sy, how do you see the inside linebackers this year?  
buddyryansux10 : 1/23/2020 7:34 pm : link
Any day 2 guys to keep an eye on? Thinking perhaps the kid from Oregon. Thanks much as always!
Also you mentioned good day 2 OTs,  
buddyryansux10 : 1/23/2020 7:46 pm : link
Are there a few names you could possibly share who would be available? Thank you!
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